In reply to:

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Well……thanks, no ----- . Your clever, eloquent and intellectual description of the P mind and behaviour is true, interesting and unpleasant. At least to me. My apologies!

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what are you appologising for Nan?

None neccessary that I can see ( I am used to other far more..um... agressively combative political forums... and unlike the P who is only in it to win, I really am here to learn. I enjoy it when people pull my stuff apart and teach me something new or point out any errors in my info or thinking...

...and as an aside...I'm really toning my normal style down to keep in with the milieu and atmosphere of support of this place... Hope I'm doing ok so far...dont want Dianne to start deleting my posts!)

In reply to:

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I don’t believe that you (or anyone for that matter) can understand the effects of such devastating mind play on an emotional level unless you have experienced it.

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Yes Nan. Ive understood that for some while now. Other posters here have made the same point, and its a realisation I was coming to independently once I started to get a handle on what is involved in a relationship with a p. Thats why this forum is so valuable. Insights from insiders, not available from the formal literature.

Being in an emotional relationship - on one side, the most obscene form of addictive psychological warfare as I view it - with a P is something I hope I will never have to experience. I have no ambitions to have my trust betrayed, emotions raped, yoyo-ed back and forth, ground down, love twisted to hate and anger.

Its hugely upsetting that this happened to somebody I cared for deeply, and one level still do.

Its something I have to understand from the outside, to the best of my ability. This is neccessary for me to be of any help to my ex.

Yup. Psychopathy as you say is an unpleasant business (to say the least!) when you get down to the nitty gritty, even to the external observer who takes a close look. I have no desire ever to feel what it is like from the inside.

A number of posters have noted that the initial passionate intensity of their love for their 'perfect soul mate' was something they never experienced with any 'normal' man. Thats an awful trap. The holiday in heaven is no way worth the subsquent lifetime in hell, and theres no repeat trip. Spread the news. You cant ever get it back. Its something every woman needs to know. This and red flag information about abusers ought to be taught to teenage girls in school. Wouldnt be a bad thing for men to know about as well... there are a few female p out there too..

regards

JustAMan

Hi JAM,

"what are you appologising for Nan? None neccessary that I can see ( I am used to other far more..um... agressively combative political forums..."

So am I! If, in the right forum, we were discussing politics or philosophy or some such subject, I would enjoy sparring with you.

"...and unlike the P who is only in it to win, I really am here to learn."

Oh, I do not doubt that you are here to learn.

" I enjoy it when people pull my stuff apart and teach me something new or point out any errors in my info or thinking..."

Yes! I am aware that I could have done that and that you would have enjoyed the challenge it represented. With just about any other subject I would have enjoyed it as well.

This forum is a very different place. We wear our hearts on our sleeves and lay ourselves emotionally open in ways that most of us would not except with a very trusted friend.

I have replied to your posts with as much intuitiveness and sensitivity as I could bring to bear on the subject matter you presented. Perhaps, I went too far? Perhaps I hit a nerve, I do not know. I can only guess. If, it was done to help not to hinder and not in any way to make you feel obliged.

It takes me hours, literally, to reply to some posts. I am very careful about what words I use and how I frame my sentences. I deliberately refrain from being clever and I use words that can be understood by anyone, posters and readers alike (we have a huge readership - people who never post).


"...and as an aside...I'm really toning my normal style down to keep in with the milieu and atmosphere of support of this place... Hope I'm doing ok so far...

Yes! As you have noted, you are the only 'bloke' on the board. A man usually has a somewhat different approach to emotional subjects, but because you have been extremely sensitive and searching as well, I chose to reply in kind.

"...dont want Dianne to start deleting my posts!)"

Posts are deleted for different reasons. The biggest reason for removing a post is to keep the forum in order, i.e., housekeeping. We want to keep threads in order and on-topic, which was the reason why I replied to your post in your original thread. I should have, but forgot to move and delete the other post and Dianne wrote and told me that she had done it for me.

To cut all my ahem...backtracking short: In my posts to you, I have worn my heart on my sleeve, which is not a state conducive to being clever and intellectual, and I was literally bowled over when I read your other post. It hit me with such force that I sat here staring at the screen wanting nothing more than to have done.

Perhaps in another discussion along the same lines, we could take smaller bits. Bits, with enough substance to make it interesting on an intellectual level, but not so long that you feel thrown into a vortex of throughts and feelings that makes it impossible to stand straight.

Kind regards,

Nan

In reply to:

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" I enjoy it when people pull my stuff apart and teach me something new or point out any errors in my info or thinking..."

Yes! I am aware that I could have done that and that you would have enjoyed the challenge it represented. With just about any other subject I would have enjoyed it as well.

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Not quite Nan... challenge doesnt come into it. The reason I'm here is entirely functional. Nothing to do with the dominance game of rhetorical debate. I would enjoy being corrected, not challenged. The more I understand about the situation I'm involved in the less anxious I feel about it. Thats where the enjoyment of reading the posts here comes into it - anxiety reduction. It is a pleasant sensation when another piece fits into the jigsaw, and that gnawing feeling of doubt and puzzlement is reduced. Its also invaluable to the feedback I am able to provide to my friend. She is running at 100mph just to stand still in her life and does not have time to do any in depth research herself

Some of the analysis and reports of P lifestyles, behaviours and character traits Ive seen here is not available elsewhere. Its invaluable. As I am not, and never have been directly involved with a p, the ammount of posting I intend to do will be limited. I dont have the experience myself to offer validation of others experiences. Any posts are likely to be more on the factual/analytic side...

For instance, a recent response of mine to another man who thought he might (in my opinion erroneously) be a p seemed appropriate.

Im sorry of you found my 'off the top of my head' ramble on the nature of the p in any way disturbing. That was not the intention.

Dont spare my feelings Nan. If there is anything in what I say which you find to be factually incorrect, ambiguous, or poorly thought out, jump in feet first. I need to know.

Hi Justaman

just wanted to say that I wish there were more friends of victims who would do as much as you are doing for your friend. I hope she appreciates what you are doing and you both benefit from each other.

Good luck

Recovery

Thanks for those kind words, Recovery.

I think she has benefited, and I know I have. Various 'issues' which should have been cleared up between us years ago have now been resolved.

She is now 'intellectually' 100% there ( she wasnt in July) . The emotional adjustment to a very weird reality is still underway. Healing has barely started and I think is going to take many years. Its the emotional damage to the 2 children that I see that most upsets me. I have to harden my heart to stay sharp for her. The situation with the p is getting critical. There is going to be some sort of crisis in the next week. There are several factors in the situation which the p doesnt know about and which are going to hit him almost simultaneously. hes going to be under a lot of pressure and i'm not sure how he's going to react. Going by his life history ( which I have) it should be OK , but you never can tell. Precautions are being taken, but I'm still a bit nervous. Cant give details fo obvious reasons.

JustaMan