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#3673 - 11/12/04 04:51 PM What motivates the psychopath ?
JustAMan Offline
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Registered: 09/04/04
Posts: 186
What motivates the Psychopath? - a few ideas... an attempt to summarise... all criticisms and contributions welcome. Have I missed anything major? (sticking to the male Psychopath, as I dont know much about the comparatively rare female psychopath)

Control – the desire to be in control of its environment, including its human victims, which are viewed no differently to any other part of its environment. The Psychopath wants to be the agent that ‘makes stuff happen’. When humans which it feels are its possessions (family or ‘friends’) have their own agendas, needs, opinions, emotional states, independent activity which the psychopath does not initiate or somehow control or influence, it is not happy. The Psychopath does not co-operate, negotiate or compromise. The Psychopath only initiates and dominates, as it has to be in control.

Material comforts and possessions – which it does not wish to have to work for, merely con in order to acquire.

Malignant envy – envy of and the desire to possess and destroy that which the Psychopath is not or has not - happiness, goodness, wealth, social standing, intellect, achievement... love. The Psychopath is nothing but a mask hiding pure selfishness, has nothing, and wishes to bring everything and everybody down to its level.

Attention – the Narcissistic component...any sort of attention, love or hate, either will do. So long as others are engaged and focussed on the Psychopath. The Psychopath hates to be ignored. Psychopath hates being alone, dislikes living on its own as a single person. A new victim is swiftly targeted when an old one is abandoned. (And often before the old one is abandoned!)


High sensory input activity - A variety of fast activities - e.g. mad driving, extreme or violent sports, emotionally extreme behaviour in the victim. Anti-social behaviours and petty crime 'just for the buzz'

Anything as long as it's life in the fast lane... Calm normality is abhorred. The Psychopath is easily bored, and has a habit of random zigzaging from one activity to another. Drugs (nicotine, caffeine, alcohol, illegal drugs) are often used to amplify/modify sensory stimulation. This desire for abnormally high sensory stimulation might be as a result of the desire to fill some of the emotional void. For normal people many activities are also emotionally satisfying, hence less need for high levels of purely sensory stimulation.

Duping delight – getting one over on the victim with tricks and lies. The enjoyment of deception, covert scheming and betrayal .. This links into being in ‘Control’...

Male sexual response - Basic impulsive reaction to a womans body. Visual and tactile. No emotions involved. As there is no emotional bond involved in the Ps sex life – no true intimacy - sexual variety and novelty, which leads to promiscuity, fills the void. Intellectual gratification – Intelligent Psychopath appear to get the same satisfaction as normal people from purely intellectual pursuits e.g. science, math, computing. 'Hard' precision subjects with logic and definite 'structure' are preferred to 'fuzzy' subjects or those with an 'emotional' component.

...and a secondary motivation , which supports the acquisition of thingsThe avoidance of communication.Words are used as weapons of deception and dominance. Any genuine communication is to be avoided in order to hide the Ps true motivations. The Psychopath particularly wishes to avoid any deep exploration of emotional states, spirituality, morals or ethics, as it has not the wherewithal to relate to these. Its might have a variety of learnt ‘scripts’ on these subjects, (especially those useful to seduce women) but they ring false if serious engagement occurs. ‘You know I love you, babe’ is often as profound as the average Psychopat

...and that’s it basically. Nothing else counts (unless I’ve missed something!). Normal human motivations e.g. love, fatherhood, friendship ( I don’t think the Psychopath has real friends – acquaintances and accomplices, maybe) pity, altruism, honour, trust, the satisfaction of a job well done, etc etc. are viewed as weaknesses to be twisted and exploited to the benefit of the Psychopath. The Psychopath satisfies its motivations by aping normal motivations ( often not very convincingly when seen up close and personal – words and deeds do not match) , pretending to be a person.

Personally I don’t regard Psychopaths as people, as they havent got what it takes. Exploitative dangerous things in human form which need to be dealt with (rather than related to) is as far as I’ll go.

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#3674 - 11/21/04 10:47 AM Re: What motivates the psychopath ? [Re: JustAMan]
sylvie25 Offline
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Registered: 08/13/04
Posts: 325
Thanks for that JustaMan,
<br>
<br>One more came to mind:
<br>
<br>Revenge/Vindictiveness: 3 (possibly 4) Psychopath/Ns I've encountered are HIGHLY vengeful. The smallest slight or perceived slight is dwelt upon and paid back manyfold and they ALWAYS feel justified. The male Psychopaths I've known all seem to have issues with their mothers (in fact, I'm a little surprised I have not seen that mentioned much or maybe at all in any posts that I've read here). I guess that's what makes them the seething misogynists that they are. Basically, payback time for women because of not getting the love, attention, whatever, from mommie (and/or being physically or otherwise abused).

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#3675 - 11/21/04 12:43 PM Re: What motivates the psychopath ? [Re: sylvie25]
JustAMan Offline
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Registered: 09/04/04
Posts: 186
In reply to:
Revenge/Vindictiveness: 3 (possibly 4) psychopath/Ns I've encountered are HIGHLY vengeful. The smallest slight or perceived slight is dwelt upon and paid back manyfold and they ALWAYS feel justified.
Yup. Thats a good one that I missed. This I think links iinto point 1 on my list, a desire to control. Any perceived challenge is only ever seen as part of the battle for control, not as an attempt to communicate a different point of view, then engage in a rational debate. Last thing psychopath wants is communication. When challenged the psychopath feels a loss of control, anxiety, and hits back (revenge/vindictiveness) in order to re-establish control. psychopath is effectively training the individiuals in its environment not to challenge it. "Back down, shut up, and dont try that again" is Ps message. Result an atmosphere of fear and 'walking on eggshells' around the psychopath.

In reply to:
The male Ps I've known all seem to have issues with their mothers (in fact, I'm a little surprised I have not seen that mentioned much or maybe at all in any posts that I've read here).



I agree. Development of psychopathy I think results from something going wrong with the formation of the mother child bond at a very early age and the subsequent failure of the normal process of socialisation.


Nature, nurture, or nature and nurture. Take your pick. Its not clear, and I feel there's more than one route to psychopathy


it does seem to be a commonly reported story that many Ps have a very abnormal relationship/attitude to their mother. I think they see their mothers as the person who first tried to control them - tried so hard to socialise the little psychopath - which the psychopath subconsciously resents. And as you say, this results in misogyny.


The psychopath I know about had a strange attitude to its mother. and projected this onto its partner as an excuse as to why it didnt see much of its mother. ( "Its your fault I never saw much of my mother - you never wanted to visit or have her here")

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#3676 - 11/24/04 02:47 PM Re: What motivates the psychopath ? [Re: JustAMan]
sylvie25 Offline
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Registered: 08/13/04
Posts: 325
_______________
<br>"This I think links iinto point 1 on my list, a desire to control. Any perceived challenge is only ever seen as part of the battle for control, not as an attempt to communicate a different point of view, then engage in a rational debate."
____________

Agree it ties into their need for control, of their domain and of others. They also seem to act out of sheer unbridled cruelty (lack of empathy helps) and get enjoyment out of making and watching others suffer.

Yes, they all seem to have attachment issues.
__________
"The Psychopath I know about had a strange attitude to its mother. and projected this onto its partner as an excuse as to why it didnt see much of its mother. ( "Its your fault I never saw much of my mother - you never wanted to visit or have her here")"
____________

Ditto. The psychopath I went out with vacillated between trashing his family on the one hand but also claiming that I was trying to drive a wedge between them. Really whatever position suited him at any given time.

Also, it was clear that his very domineering and hugely narcissistic mother helped guide his thinking that way.

I couldn't help being wistful when I read "the Psychopath I know about" part of your statement. I'd be willing to bet most people who've had direct dealings with Psychopaths wished they just knew of or about them. Having said that, I read your earliest posts and know that the Psychopath had negative implications for your life too. It's all very unfortunate.

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#3677 - 11/25/04 08:59 AM Re: What motivates the P ? [Re: sylvie25]
freedom Offline
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Registered: 06/11/05
Posts: 11
i wonder if the doctors have done any analyze of their chromosomes
2 of my children have an unbalanced translocation of chromosomes 5 and 18 and and i joined a group of people who have something wrong with their chromosomes 18 and they have this basic characteristic of being small and not talking and a variations of other problem

so i was wondering if someone here who has contact with doctor Hare coul ask him if there were any test done on their chromosomes

freedom


Edited by freedom (11/25/04 09:02 AM)

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#3678 - 11/25/04 12:48 PM Re: What motivates the P ? [Re: freedom]
JustAMan Offline
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Registered: 09/04/04
Posts: 186
In reply to:

so i was wondering if someone here who has contact with doctor Hare coul ask him if there were any test done on their chromosomes



Something Ive been keeping an eye out for... there doesnt seem to be any clear cut evidence for a genetic basis for psychopathy...at least not any that Ive seen. My thinking is that its usually a mix of nature and nurture... a genetic propensity, which is 'developed' by environmental influences, mostly something going horribly wrong with the mother - child bond at a very early age... Thats just guesswork though... there might be several routes to psychopathy, some of which may have no genetic component, some which might be purely genetic.

Unlike some other syndromes, such as Downs syndrome, where the genetic cause is clear cut, nothing seems very clear about the causes of psychopathy.

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#3679 - 12/26/04 06:11 PM Re: What motivates the P ? [Re: JustAMan]
Sunshine Offline
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Registered: 08/28/05
Posts: 1
How about sadism? Underlying a lot of this conduct is the desire to hurt others, often in subtle and twisted ways. This is more than a lack of empathy (say as in autism), but rather an enjoyment of using what they are able to glean about a person to torment them in often odd ways. This motive is consistent with the need to control, the need for stimulation, and the selfish sexual behaviour, but is perhaps at the root of what makes them scary.

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#3680 - 01/08/05 01:56 PM Re: What motivates the psychopath ? [Re: Sunshine]
JustAMan Offline
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Registered: 09/04/04
Posts: 186
In reply to:
How about sadism? Underlying a lot of this conduct is the desire to hurt others, often in subtle and twisted ways.
sa·dism

n.

1. The deriving of sexual gratification or the tendency to derive sexual gratification from inflicting pain or emotional abuse on others.
2. The deriving of pleasure, or the tendency to derive pleasure, from cruelty.
3. Extreme cruelty.

...I've no idea really. Is an individual incapable of empathy capable of deriving pleasure from the emotional pain of others?...or is that pain produced merely a side effect, or a means to an end of the Psychopaths prime motivation - the desire to control?

As I have no direct experience of psychopathy - I've never been the victim of one - I think I'll just step back from that one.

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#3681 - 03/05/05 07:45 PM Re: What motivates the P ? [Re: JustAMan]
Sunshine Offline
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Registered: 08/28/05
Posts: 1
http://www.hare.org/links/saturday.html/ quotes Dr. Paul Babiak, an industrial-organizational psychologist based near NYC, who is writing a book with Bob Hare called "When Psychopaths Go to Work: Cons, Bullies and the Puppetmaster" as follows:
“Babiak says psychopaths have three motivations: thrill-seeking, the pathological desire to win, and the inclination to hurt people. ‘They'll jump on any opportunity that allows them to do those things,’he says. ‘If something better comes along, they'll drop you and move on.’”
Also: “Psychopaths love chaos and hate rules ....”

**edited to make link clickable, Di


Edited by Dianne E. (03/05/05 08:37 PM)

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#3682 - 05/18/05 04:15 AM Re: What motivates the psychopath ? [Re: JustAMan]
MoreCautiousNow Offline
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Registered: 04/26/05
Posts: 110
Hi JAM

I commend you on your very well thought out and intelligent post/list. It is well deserving of its own special place for all who visit here to read.

The thought has been broached here about psychopath's deliberate sadism/hurtfulness of those within his/her realm. I have been contemplating this issue. Another issue I have contemplated is this "energy-draining" phenomena that Psychopath's seem to have on their "victims". (This draining effect is not merely one of "exasperation" or tediousness of dealing with a Psychopath, it's more like the engery is "stolen" somehow.)

I am beginning to wonder if Psychopath's "agitate" certain situations or cause situations just to evoke higher energy levels or more energy that the Psychopath can somehow "feed" from.

You've stated that you have not had direct dealings with a Psychopath, so maybe your experience with the "energy stealing" is limited, however you seem to have some very good insight and was wondering what your thoughts are in this area. ??
And, anyone else out there who has some insight on this, is encouraged to share as well.

Regards,
MCN

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