Hi.

Searching for answers here. I am relieved to have found a forum such as this, but will admit to being apprehensive, because I'm just recently coming off my first intimate experience with a "P." I've read a few of the forums here and it is, again, a relief to find that there are at least others with whom I may share experiences. I must admit though that I am having trouble trusting anyone online at this moment, since that is where I met this person. Please excuse me if I am not as forthright initially as I might normally be, but this experience has me shaken.

The medical and law enforcement community is seemingly oblivious to this condition and for the first time in my life, am fearful of how manipulative and destructive another human can be. While I've heard of such conditions, I have never personally been involved. I was SO completely duped by this person and as I retrace these past few months, I guess I can only be thankful that this person did not have physical violence in their repertoire. God knows it could've been a lot worse.

I am reluctant to give details online. The person I was involved with was SO cunning, intelligent, charismatic, and manipulative that I wouldn't put it past this person to be reading this message right now. Yes, if I seem a bit paranoid, I am. The developments of the recent past have been chilling and have turned my life for a pretty mean twist. I came to find out that this person is, indeed, a "P" and has been parasitic and a pathological liar for years now.

After the initial period of kicking myself for not picking it up sooner (in talking with other victims, I actually have found out that I picked it up very soon in comparison to other victims of this P), I am now experiencing a great deal of confusion as to whether or not my safety is compromised in any way. It is both incredible and sad that this person has made me feel so insecure, when before my life was such an open book. While I haven't lost my faith in human nature, I have been shaken and feel like wiping my entire slate clean (change name, living arrangements, car, etc.) I have nothing to hide in my life, but the lies this person conjured are unbelievably elaborate. This person's absolutely convincing nature makes this person a very big threat to the happiness of anyone who becomes intimately involved with this person, on any level.

I'm looking for places to turn right now and wonder if there are any support groups for people who have become victims of p's. I am also torn between just forgetting about it/moving on and/or stopping this person. The research seems to be unclear on what to do and since this person is constantly able to hide behind the veils of medical privacy, it is very difficult to know whether or not professionals are aware or if they too are just other, less injured, victims of the p.

This person has the ability to be SO destructive because of the absolute plausibility of the tales woven as well as the seemingly appropriateness of this person's actions and words in society. While I will be much better equipped to see it coming the next time I encounter a person with this condition, I fear others will fall into the trap I did. I mean, why wouldn't they? This person is absolutely charming, wonderful in every way, and very believable in general.

Any help out there?

Thank you for just being there as just typing this has helped me purge a bit of what's inside.

Hi TR,

Welcome to this forum.

There is positively no need for apologising for being less than forthright, for being reluctant to give details and for being somewhat paranoid about your security - online and off. In fact, I would say that you are wise to know how you feel right now and to act accordingly, however unpleasant it feels to be so alien to yourself.

You are not alone! I too, was shaken to the roots of my being when I discovered what I had been up against. I worried that P would call, that he would show up unannounced, that he would use spyware to find me on the Net, that he would know that I had found out who he was. In fact, I can still become unsettled at the thought of meeting him on the street - this in spite of the fact that he does not live in this country.

You write:

"I am now experiencing a great deal of confusion as to whether or not my safety is compromised in any way."

While a P can be very cunning, chances are that your safety is NOT compromised, especially since the P was not violent. As well, many socially adept P's shy away from violence unless dirctly threathened. Another thing is that a socially adept P generally has very good radar and will have picked up that his victim is about to call it quits. He will almost always have another unsuspecting person waiting in the wings. This is sad but true.

The best way for you to stay safe is to NOT interfere with the P in any way. The NO CONTACT rule is the only way to take back your life. Warning the next victims never works. Would you have believed it if someone had told you about the P when you first met him? No, you would not and neither would I. P's are just too charming, too intelligent, too loving and too able to be just the right kind of soulmate for anyone to believe anything negative about him.

"It is both incredible and sad that this person has made me feel so insecure, when before, my life was such an open book."

Yes, it is very frightening. I was incredulous that he could have duped me like that. I was angry at myself for not having listened to my intuition. I was both sad and worried and very stressed and distressed. Research indicates that people who have had a relationship with a P often suffer from PTSD, Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. It can be seen in many ways or just a few ways, depending on the person.

Your desire to 'wipe the slate clean' is something I can easily understand. The feeling is that by changing everything, we can effectively put the experience behind us. The experience will still be there and no amount of hiding from it will make it go away.

However, the good news is that it does get better. Slowly, you will understand that it was NOT your fault. You will come to understand that there was nothing you could have done - that seeing through the initial mask of sanity (to borrow words) is almost impossible. The P aims to dupe you and he is a master par excellence. People not in the know, will not realise what is happening. I surely had no clue. I felt so lucky to have found a man so tender, so loving and so considerate, so charming and wonderful. Of course, he was anything but, but it took me quite some time to figure that out.

Time is a great healer and today I am okay, albeit still a bit suspicious of strangers.

Yes, it helps a lot to write things down. It can help to get rid of the fear, the anger and the confusion. Seeing a psychologist or licensed therapist can also be a great help. You must however shop around to ensure that the therapist knows about psychopaths and is conversant with the P victim pathology.

Reading as much as you can find about P's and their victims can also be helpful.

It is possible that there are support groups in your area. You will have to check it out very carefully. Use the Net and the phone book to gather information. Other than that, we will our best to help and support you.

Please take care and know that you are not alone.

Nan

Hi TheRide, welcome to the forum. I can understand your concerns, they are quite "normal" from the many victims I have read stories from. Privacy here at the forum is a very important issue, unlike "free software" forums we use a very secure system.

I hope you will feel comfortable to tell more of your story. Sometimes writing can be the best way to express your feelings and see things more clearly.

Di

Nan and Dianne. Thank you very much for your posts. I appreciate your feedback. It feels right to put this experience behind me, pick up the pieces, and move on. There is a part of me, however, that still wants to unravel some of the mysteries that surround this situation. A friend of mine and a relative told me to forget about it as I will, most likely, never get the answers to some of the things that still don't make sense. Ultimately, peace of mind will hopefully come in time. I am still changing lots of things in my life...just securing things, etc. But, overall, I just want so much to come out of this a better person while at the same time being a bit more cautious about letting people "in" without a clue as to who they are. I guess my "sixties" mentality needs to be slightly modified, eh? I have always had so much faith in human nature, but this experience has shown me a very dark side to the human condition. Again, I can only thank my lucky stars that this person was not violent or didn't posess some other wickedly negative traits. And...even though this person will probably not see any jail time or receive any truly serious punishment, the actions of this p, in my opinion, amounted to a series of serious moral crimes. When one examines the entire chain of events over the past years (numerous victims), one will find an absolutely shocking record of abuse. It's really amazing how these people can fly under the radar so masterfully, yet once they're caught, can so easily have another victim all lined up. It's obvious to me now that the p I was involved with probably hasn't missed a beat and is more than likely latching onto someone else for another "ride" right this very moment....Amazing, really.

I wish you all well. I'd be glad to be of help to anyone who needs an ear, er eye...(internet here...woops).


Take care.

Hi TheRide, I think the most common thing most victims share is a wonderful ability to care and trust others. Unfortunately when it comes to dealing with Psychopaths it is easier to become a target. It is hard for most of us "normal" people to think on the same terms. I also think that many times people who don't understand the dilemna want to brush people off with a "get over it" attitude. I personally think as in all of lifes traumas it is very healthy to take your approach and try to review how and why things happen. I think it helps to put the pieces of the puzzle together and help us to move forward without falling into the same trap again. Keep in mind there is nothing that you did wrong, being a nice and caring person is not a bad thing

It is very kind of you to offer to help others. Telling your story does help others. We have a very large readership and for many reasons and fears many who visit the site read for quite awhile before coming forward. So, any advise you can offer or help explain how this happened to you is valuable to others.

Di

Hi there.

I'm sorry I'm reluctant to give more detail at this point, but I will say that the stories I've been reading all seem to share similar themes and motivations, albeit different circumstances. Similar to alcoholism, "people, places, and things" may be different, but psychopathy, from what I'm discovering, is NOT considered a disease.

One of the best things I read (after reading all of the basic research on the net) was a piece called "The Straight Dope." In a nutshell, people with this condition are just "lying sacks of sh**" and "without conscience." While the first quote may seem rather simplistic, it does seem to ring true. In my case, this person displayed all of the classic characteristics: highly manipulative (as it turns out), charming, inexplicable "flat" emotion at times, above average to high intelligence, grandiosity, high sex drive and high degree of sexual promiscuity at times in life, talent in many areas, apparent sincerity and anything but antisocial. The truth is that this person, ultimately, was calculating, parasitic, addicted to drugs, and had the ability to create such elaborate lies that seemed to be so detailed and so "layered." It's amazing really to think how cold this person really is. To be so "loving" and seemingly sincere on one hand, only to be so callous and kniving at the same time, just proves to me that this person ultimately has little to no conscience as a result of a severe lack of self-esteem. Instead of dealing with problems in life, this person, and others, are only able to "get a charge" by duping people into thinking they are something other than a lying sack of sh** with major self-esteem issues. Instead of "fighting the good fight" in life, they CHOOSE to hurt others. In the case of the person I was falling in love with, he/she chose to prey on the empathy of me, and others in the past, by faking a suicide--a tactic this person has used to escape once "the jig is up" on numerous other occasions. Once they are able to hide behind the veils of "medical privacy," they are then free to prey on another kind soul with the ultimate goal of getting into a warm house, and in this case, back on the internet to attract another unsuspecting mate.

While it would be easy to call this person, and others like him/her "sick," it would, most likely, be incorrect to do so. The research and victims' stories seem to indicate that these people, while certainly lacking conscience, are completely sane while contemplating their actions. The one I was dealing with was SO convincing and was able to mask his/her "condition" through a series of very acceptable and wonderful attributes and actions.

I'd be interested in others' opinions on what I've written above.

I also have another concern. As a victim of this person, I find myself wanting to distance myself COMPLETELY while still remaining curious about: who's on tap now, his/her whereabouts, and what really happened throughout our relationship. As for damages, I can truly say that I've come out relatively unscathed. I was one of the lucky victims in that I was "in" for a pretty short amount of time, compared to other victims of this p. Nonetheless, the depth of feeling I felt during that short time and the "ride" on which I was taken was quite intense. I'll eventually be able to pick up the financial, emotional, etc. pieces and move on, but I have to admit that the experience had a pretty profound effect on me and I will never be the same. I'm better now. I'm still a loving soul with a desire to connect on a very deep level, but I am MUCH more careful now. Sad, but true. This has been my growing edge. My buddy said tonite, "What doesn't kill you will make you stronger." I believe it's true, providing I continue to "fight the good fight" and learn from my mistakes...that's my hope.

As you can probably tell, and as I mentioned initially in this post, I'm still reluctant to give specific details, because this is a public place. I'm sure there are numerous p's that read this board to get their jollies. I believe it's important to express our truths and share at whatever level with which we feel comfortable. For now, this is my comfort level.

I have another question. During my search for answers during the initial phase of the discovery of who this person really is, one of the previous victims and I had a phone chat. Now, this person wishes to "compare notes" and just share stuff, tell stories, etc. While I believe it can be helpful in satisfying some of the curiosity surrounding the mysteries, etc., I am not clear about the goal of this. It would only confirm what I already understand, albeit providing some new details. As mentioned previously, a part of me is strangely curious. What would you do if a previous victim wants to compare stories? Outside of satisfying curiosities, what other possible benefit could come from this?

Thanks for reading and peace to all.

Hi TR,

What you have written is a good blue print of a P. As with the general population, there are small differences in behaviour. For example, some P's are highly sexed while other P's claim to be, but in fact are not. The P I knew I was not terribly interested in vanilla sex although he liked to talk about it and he also used it as a carrot.

The 'flat' emotions are one of the hallmarks. P's are able to display what appears to be emotion, but if asked, "why do feel this way?" he is unable to explain or elucidate and the issue, whatever it was, is forgotten in the blink of an eye. The P I knew, would even refuse having had a conversation about it as well as negate any negative actions on his part - no, he had never said that - never done that. If I persevered, he would turn the tables and claim that IF...it was because I had done so and so and thus forced him to behave in a negative manner. If not me, he would blame tom, dick and harry, his mother or his upbringing or his education, or the lack thereof. There was always an excuse. It was NEVER his fault. According to him, he was the real victim.

You write:

"To be so "loving" and seemingly sincere on one hand, only to be so callous and kniving at the same time, just proves to me that this person ultimately has little to no conscience as a result of a severe lack of self-esteem. "

While I agree about the 'no conscience' bit and can understand why you have come to the conclusion that the result must be a 'severe lack of self-esteem', my opinion is that in order to suffer from a severe lack of self-esteem, one has to be capable of real emotion and introspection. One has to be aware of oneself as a being with a range of real wishes and desires that have been repeatedly twarted so as to create a sense that one is 'no good' and therefore unable to live up to own perceived potential.

This, I believe, is not the case with a P. He or she is good at playing the victim, but it is a ploy, nothing more. It is a ploy to get various goodies, such as a place to stay, money, gifts and most of all attention. P's crave attention.

Their ploys to get attention by playing the victim is often used to deflect questions about their behaviour. Questions that have no satisfactory answer. Initially, this works a charm. Who can stand by idly while listening to a childhood story of horrible woe and deprivation. So the question is forgotten and instead we do our best to be supportive and understanding of our love who has suffered so.

However, being supportive and understanding of a P, is like throwing emotion, money and whatever else, into a deep bottomless well. First of all, it will NEVER be enough and second, you will NEVER get it back.

The reason it will never be enough is that the P, feels entitled to EVERYTHING. Whatever you give, he will take without so much as considering the cost to you. Since he has no conscience and only 'flat' emotions, he does not care. To have a 'severe lack of self-esteem' one has to be capable of emotional insight. This you will not find in a P. You may find a good imitation, but that's all it is: imitation.

You write:

"I also have another concern. As a victim of this person, I find myself wanting to distance myself COMPLETELY while still remaining curious about: who's on tap now, his/her whereabouts, and what really happened throughout our relationship. "

Yes! That appears to be par for the course. I think most of us here can relate to that. There is a clear sense that while wanting to put it all behind us, there is a also a very strong desire to discover what really happened and why did it happen to us. Who are these clever, manipulating people, who took our lives, put them into a virtual blender and made mush of them. What did we do wrong? Why did we fall for it? Why did we not not see it coming?

A million such questions flow through our minds and there is a strong desire to find answers. Sometimes, there is also a strong desire for revenge. As for the answers, they are slow in coming. Even the best research psychiatrists do not know exactly why a person is or becomes a P. All that is really known is that they exist and that they wreck havoc with other people's lives. Some of the ways that they do this, is both well known and well documented. Although many fine researchers, among them Robert Hare, have made strides, the why is harder to acertain with any degree of confidence. As for revenge: Revenge is a dish best eaten cold. The NO CONTACT rule is your best tool.

Take care,

Nan

Good points Nan.

As for the self-esteem issue, it's a tough call. I suppose one would have to gather histories on and interview a great number of p's in order to determine whether or not self-esteem issues seem to be key indicators of "p-dom."

Anyhow, you make some excellent points which rang true for my situation.

Thanks!

"I also have another concern. As a victim of this person, I find myself wanting to distance myself COMPLETELY while still remaining curious about: who's on tap now, his/her whereabouts, and what really happened throughout our relationship."

Hi Nan and The Ride and Diane
i am in that state these last few days.Curiosity.
i had shared how i was so weak that i could not deal with p anymore so that is how i am strong
i am doing good at the no contact physical and no phonecal
for a few month
well a few days ago he kept calling i would not answer
he left a message saying he finally got his own place and a phone (no long distance) i met him oh halloween night 1998
and he always live off of other people and i have been telling him hat he need to get his own place
so he is leaving his number for me to call
and i have to admit i would like to see his new place
i would tell him to get his own place
and he says i finally got it
but
i did not call and i am glad i am not doing it


i am ashame to say that i am curious and i know if i call his number it will be hell after that
i know how he is and i don't feel like going through all the bagage he's got up his sleeve

peace and love

monique

Hi Freedom,

"i am ashame to say that i am curious and i know if i call his number it will be hell after that"

Better ashamed in heaven than burning in hell.

Stay strong, Freedom.

Nan