Hey, did anyone see the Oprah Winfrey show today? It dealt with pathological lying. This p came on the show and claimed she was cleaning up her act. While she seemed sincere, I just couldn't buy it. The "expert" came on and said she could, in fact, get better by having a "funeral" for her old way of life and by really working hard at telling the truth 100% of the time...also by surrounding herself with people that won't take any more of her "bullcrap." She said it would be very hard work, but that it could be done.

From what I've heard, there is only a VERY slight chance that a psychopath can change...very small. I've always been such a believer in the power of the human spirit, but somehow my recent experience with a p leads me to truly believe that almost no matter what they try, they will always be a p...no "cure." Oprah and the "expert" both agreed she was "sick." Hmm, this seems to go against what Dr. Hare suggests about this "condition." Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't he say that these people are willful, plain and simple. While they all seem to have a common background (abuse, neglect, drug abuse, etc.), the bottom line seems to be that these people are just plain bad...right?..not sick. Their actions may seem sick, but in reality, they are just parasitic pieces of you know what. I once read that the only true way these people get better is through time. I believe I read that by age 60 or so, these people usually "grow out of it." Weird eh?

So, while I understand how an "expert" can say that these people can mend their ways and become better humans, I simply wouldn't trust a p. How can someone suddenly grow a conscience??

Hi TR

I would have like to have seen that programme. I am sure the "experts" and I use that term with extreme caution - will always try to get glory for themselves by finding a "cure " etc. But I agree with you 100% - how can a P suddenly grow a conscience!!

I sat with my P in front of various professionals as he swore he had changed - they fell for it like I did. But it was all part of the game. So I don't believe there is a cure out there yet - just a new way for the P to manipulate the rest of us!

take care

Recovery

Hi TR,

Re: The Oprah Winfrey show.

"The "expert" came on and said she could, in fact, get better by having a "funeral" for her old way of life and by really working hard at telling the truth 100% of the time..."

With all due respect to the real experts like Hare, Cleckley and Stout, BULL....!

The ONLY truth a P knows is the truth according to P. That "truth" is NOT what a normal person would consider the truth. The P will swear on his mother's grave that XYZ is the truth, only to renege on any and all promises made.

To suggest that all a P has to do is work hard at telling the truth and then the P is cured, is like suggesting that pigs can fly if they try hard enough.

"She said it would be very hard work, but that it could be done. "

This is dangerous talk! What this so-called expert is really saying is that all current victims should blithely hang in there for at one point, if they and the P work hard enough, the P will be cured. So go for it!

In spite of emotional abuse, drug and alcohol use, sexual philandering, flighty financial schemes, prison incarceration, no gainful employment, outright lying and cheating, as well as physical and sexual abuse of you and your children, STAY, for P will eventually change.

What a load of hogwash! One is tempted to suggest that this so-called expert is a P herself.

"I once read that the only true way these people get better is through time. I believe I read that by age 60 or so, these people usually "grow out of it." "

NO! P's do not "grow out of it". The P factors CAN become less prevalent after the age of 60 or so, but the person is still a P, just not as dangerous or violent.

"So, while I understand how an "expert" can say that these people can mend their ways and become better humans,..."

That P's can mend their ways goes against ALL current research on the subject.

"I simply wouldn't trust a p."

Neither would I.

"How can someone suddenly grow a conscience?? "

To make bread, you must have the right ingredients. Without the right ingredients you will not get bread no matter how much you want to make one. It's nothing but wishful thinking.

Nan

Can Psychopaths Change?

Excerpt:

"We know we're not going to instill in psychopaths a sense of empathy or a strengthened conscience, but we can probably work with characteristics related to their antisocial behavior, such as impulsivity, stimulation-seeking, and irresponsibility."

In addition, Hare believes, intervention can appeal to their self-interest and make use of the best available cognitive-behavior programs. Yet this requires their active participation. "You say to them, 'Most people think with their hearts, not with their heads and your problem is you think too much with your head. So let's change the problem into an asset.' They understand that. They say, 'Oh, yeah. I'm too rational. Like Spock on Star Trek.'"

In any event, Hare and his colleagues are not about to give up just because nothing has worked thus far.

"If they seem to be untreatable, I say we haven't yet found and tried the appropriate treatment."

"If they seem to be untreatable, I say we haven't yet found and tried the appropriate treatment."

Well I and others have come up with a "treatment" of sorts, but no-one's biting.

Ship them off someplace where they can prey on each other (hmm... sounds like prison).

Devil's Island might be a good start, if they'll have them.

I found the following experience with my P very insightful and will share it.

When I first confronted my P with his lying, he insisted he hadn't lied. I replied that maybe technically he hadn't lied, but leaving out important information was deceitful and that I didn't like it. The second time I caught him in a lie, he blithly said yeah and acted like nothing was wrong. (Textbook example there) The third and final time I confronted him with his lying, which happened to be over seeing other women, to which he replied "innocently" and "sincerely" (I say this, because I truly believe he saw nothing wrong with his behavior -- again textbook that a psychopath really doesn't view him/herself as though there is something amiss with them as humanbeings), "that's just me." This guy was in his 50's. I don't think they can ever change. I think the observations that they just sort of "burn-out" with age is probably true. They become less dangerous. Coupled with less opportunity and resources. I totally agree with "how can a P grow a conscience if the P never had one to begin with"

MCN