03/19/05 05:52 AM
Thanks for taking the time to do some research on encopresis, I have also found some interesting info. There are 2 types of encopresis one is a physical problem and the other a mental one and often not classified as encopresis. What I didn't mention was this child uses encopresis to have control so falls into the second category. It is not a permanent problem. Even when I gave him a high fibre diet and a daily dose of "Syrup of Figs" he stll manages to hold on if he wants to. He very rarely leaks. He also has a toilet ritual and closes the blinds, day or night, although there is nothing but fields outside the bathroom window and the bathroom is upstairs. He then takes all his clothes off and will sit for a long time. On a couple of occasions he has smeared the excrement around the bathroom and on my face towels. Because he has to take his clothes off to go to the toilet it severely restricts when and where he can go. Hitler also had a "smearing issue". The bedwetting is not related to the encopresis as has virtuall admitted he wets the bed on purpose, even when his bowels are empty he still wets. I once found him lying face down on his wet quilt that was on the floor was waiting to go into the washing machine. His face was buried in the wet part, when I asked what he was doing he replied that he was tired.
I will go back and find the information I found as it may be relevant to others because it was written from a forensic perspective not just a physical bowel problem.
You may like to look up "The McDonald Triad" which gives the 3 behaviours linked to forensic behaviour. Bedwetting is top of the list. My siter and brother in law are senior prison officers and say bedwtting is common in the prison population. With this child enuresis and encopresis are used as weapons to control situations and entirely his choice.
03/19/05 08:09 AM
I am pleased to join the forum and will share my info on the UK state boarding school system. Go to www.isbi.com
this gives a list of all UK schools then you can narrow the search to the state boarding system. Parents pay only for the board and lodge element which is approximately £2000 per term so fairly affordable. I don’t know whether there is any funding available for “statemented” children. We felt it was the only solution for us because the child (who I will refer to as R) was destroying our lives and it was impossible to live under the same roof as him. We didn’t alert the school to the problems we were having for a couple of reasons, firstly we wanted to know whether the behaviours were directed solely at me and secondly because we were worried the school may not accept such a disturbed child. He comes home for school holidays but spends about half of that time with his gran as he is the only grandchild.
When he is at home he just watches TV all day, he has no friends and has been banned from the neighbours houses either for stealing or being spiteful and cruel to younger children, destroying things or just making fun of adults. Anyone who knows him soon realises that the “little charmer” is only conning them to get something from them, once he gets what he wants he reverts to type. I can’t think of one person who likes him after the initial meeting.
R went to see a psychologist 2 years ago and was assessed as having “attachment issues of the avoidant type” although nothing was actually put in writing because of the long term stigma. We were told nothing could be done to help him as there is no cure and that we would have to find coping strategies until he was old enough to leave home. It was my sister who suggested that we research Reactive Attachment Disorder, she is a probation officer specialising in family welfare and she spotted the situation the first time she met him. I have come to believe that RAD and psychopathy are one and the same thing and as we gain more knowledge I think this will become more obvious. The checklist for RAD is a junior version of Robert Hare’s checklist for psychopaths. I have seen Hare’s Youth Checklist and it is very relevant to what we are dealing with. I have also read Harvey Cleckley’s Mask of Sanity which is no longer available in print but can be downloaded from Harvey Cleckley’s Mask of Sanity free book download
This is a must for anyone dealing with a psychopath, fledgling or otherwise.
R has a half brother from his mothers’ second marriage but he doesn’t express any desire for contact with him and the mother has very little contact with R anyway. My partner (N) left his marriage when R was nearly 2 and had constant contact until he was 6 when the mother insisted that he take the child permanently as she could no longer cope with him.
My son has grown up and left home and is a very loving, caring and well adjusted young man with no hang ups whatsoever. He even recently said when he has children he wants me to show him how to bring them up as I did such a good job with him. You can imagine how proud I was to hear him say that. I tried to be firm’ fair and fun. I was doing exactly the same with R but it was totally useless as nothing works with him- he just stepped up the anti the more I did for him. I even did more for him than I did for my own son because I was desperate to help him. What a waste of time and effort!
We are now at the stage where he is out of sight and out of mind for most of the time and when he comes home I have very little to do with him. I feel so sorry for N as he had a child for the wrong reasons (he thought it would help his ailing marriage) he hasn’t a clue about kids sot looks to me for guidance. He doesn’t know anything about normal kids let alone severely disturbed ones. And I am totally out of my depth with this kid.
I am secretly hoping that R will go back to his mother as she doesn’t impose any rules and he would be given total freedom to do as he wants (she will do it for the money which would be cheaper than school fees.) She has recently renewed contact now she thinks N has come into money –she doesn’t realise it is a state funded school .
03/19/05 11:42 AM
Hi Jan, very interesting comments about RAD, I did a bit of research. It sounds to me like this is something they are saying about kids before giving them the label of Psychopath:
In reply to:
In reply to: RadKids.Org
While these kids can be healed, they have to want it, and the prognosis is not good. Without healing, these kids grow up unable to form healthy relationships with other human beings. Too often, these kids develop into sociopaths devoid of conscience or concern for anyone other themselves.
I posted a question at their forum to see what the reaction is to if this RAD diagnosis is just a early way of saying the harsher reality of Psychopath?
What has been the feedback you get from the school? How is he behaving?
03/19/05 02:47 PM
I checked out the RAD org. and read the section about What is RAD?
Excerpt from that page.
"RAD kids have learned that the world is unsafe, and that the adults around them can’t be trusted to meet their needs. They have developed a protective shell around their emotions, isolating themselves from dependency on adult caregivers. Rather than depending on their parents or other adults to protect them, the protective shell becomes the child’s only means of coping with the world."
While I can see that a great deal of the information on the site point toward these children being fledgling psychopaths, I can also see that the above explanation points to the idea that parental neglect is the cause of RAD. Here, the issue is not nature and nurture as is still the prevaling, although not conclusive, thought about the origins of psychopathy, but rather nurture by itself.
As far as I know, there is still NO conclusive evidence that psychopathy is created by the parent, the caregiver or the environment.
If RAD is created by the parent, the caregivers or the general environment during the formative years then, however difficult the child, the child cannot be said to be at fault.
In fact, my first thought when I had read the RAD site was that were I the parent of a child with such a diagnois, however tentative, I would feel terribly guilty and horrified to have been the direct cause of such an illness in my child. That, in my view, cannot be helpful to the parent. It certainly cannot be helpful to the child.
I was also struck by the notion that a neglectful parent would not be likely to visit a site such as RAD. The many forums posts point to a very high level of parental engagement and willingness to try anything if only to help the child.
I believe that it is against the law in the UK to label a child a psychopath, however much the diagnosis seems to fit the established criteria.
I'd be very interested in any replies you receive to your inquiry.
03/19/05 03:48 PM
This is a very interesting topic that Jan has presented.
There is a reply to my post at the Delphi Forums RAD Discussion
I am pondering this around in my mind, thinking about what parents of fledgling Psychopaths have said in the past. It may seem kind of circular but perhaps a child who is a fledgling P is the one doing the rejecting thus making it harder for the parent to really embrace the child. Maybe the parent/caregiver is repelled from developing the bond and it doesn't have anything to do with being bad parents but perhaps a child that is the one doing the rejection? Am I making any sense?
I lean toward the nature aspect of Psychopaths so perhaps a less socialized P (for example the type who would end up being part of the 30% P's in the prison population) could be diagnosed with RAD since they in fact did have a very lousy childhood? Then I could go in another circle and if every child with a lousy childhood ended up being diagnosed with RAD, I don't know, this is a very interesting thought to process. I am still mulling over much of this so I hope I don't sound confusing.
Do you think we should have a separate topic thread for RAD and or/fledgling P's?
03/20/05 03:48 AM
"It may seem kind of circular but perhaps a child who is a fledgling P is the one doing the rejecting thus making it harder for the parent to really embrace the child. Maybe the parent/caregiver is repelled from developing the bond and it doesn't have anything to do with being bad parents but perhaps a child that is the one doing the rejection? Am I making any sense? "
Yes, you are! The old question of what came first? The chicken or the egg.
Yesterday, was my introduction to RAD kids, so I know very little about it. It appears to be a very severe case of 'Do you really love me' with the child doing its level (unconscious?) best to prove the opposite to the point where the parent is quite literally wringing his/her hands in despair of ever bringing home to the child that it IS loved.
In my life, I have met adults who seemed in need of temporary help and support, but it was not a temporary thing. These people were in such deep need that lending a hand was not enough. Their need for love and support was like a deep well that you could NEVER fill up, no matter what you did and it almost seemed as if they wanted to swallow you whole, i.e., their demands for attention were heavy and continual and so was the acting up, the continued creation of one crisis on top of another. The feeling I got was that NO amount of love, attention, help and support would enable these people to feel loved and more importantly, deserving of love. NO, I am NOT discussing the P.
"I am still mulling over much of this so I hope I don't sound confusing."
Not at all! We are both a little confused at this point because RAD is new to us and something we have not come across before. Certainly, I have not seen it mentioned in any of the books or articles I have read on psychopathy. However, it seems very important that we make a real attempt to understand RAD.
Personally, I am very loathe to label a child or very young adult psychopathic precisely because the label is so all embracing and therefore incredibly damaging. I have never known what to say or what to suggest when a parent writes a post asking, 'Is my child...?'
"Do you think we should have a separate topic thread for RAD and or/fledgling P's? "
Yes. That's a great idea. Jan is proof that we need more information and more ways to help and support parents and caregivers of difficult children.
Thanks for the link to the replies to your post. I will continue to educate myself on the RAD subject and incidentaly, Aspergers Syndrome, which JimEnigma has written a very informative post about.