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#6841 - 04/07/08 06:41 PM Re: General Discussi [Re: ]
Carolyn Offline
member

Registered: 04/07/08
Posts: 6


Hello, thank you so much for the replies. You have no idea how much they mean to me but then again you no doubt do. My other sons are beautiful young men. My oldest is 22 and already buying his own home, my youngest is fourteen, doing well at high school and working part time at McDonalds.

They are aware of how my 19 year old is and have incurred his wrath at times but he saves the most of it for me and the worst is done when we are alone.When my oldest stood up to him once my son would taunt me that nothing would please him more to see Jason (my oldest and his brother) die.

My two boys are also very forgiving and Cameron can be charming and fun to be with, so their relationship with him is very hot and cold. I try not to talk too much about my problems with Cameron to them as it is not fair to them and I think at times they are just sick of Cameron dominating our lives.

Camerons father is at times supportive to me but at other times is very sucked in by Cameron so it is also hot and cold.


On two occasions Cameron has let his guard down in front of others (nurses at the hospital) who told me they were very concerned with what they saw. I once managed to get him to an analyst who decided that there was nothing wrong with him, Cameron laughed so much as we left the doctors surgery.


He has trashed a car which I had borrowed while mine was in service so I had to pay for it. When I took his xbox 360 (for a percentage of compensation of what I had to pay)he began smashing things in my home.I got into my car to get away ( by this time my car had been returned), and he jumped on his motorbike chasing me and riding beside me screaming that he was going to kill me and no one takes his stuff and gets away with it. The police were called but they went and found Cameron elsewhere where he must have put on the charm and they then advised that I would have to be very careful if I wanted to go further as in fact I may be the one being charged.


Cameron has had about 20 jobs already and about 8 vehicles.One day he is going to go back to university and the next he is going to be a nightclub bouncer and wants me to give him $800 for the course.


Cameron knows my vulnerabilities, he knows I am lonely for a partner and he ensures I do not have one, He also knows where I do feel some guilt over parenting decisions made in the past, nothing serious but he plays on them and magnifies them so I end up questioning if it really is all my fault . He also has made me question my friends and enjoys it when they stick up for him.


I just want to curl up in a ball and die but I have to look after my teenage boy. I know i have to cut him out of my life but the thought of not knowing how he is pains me and me cutting him out will only give him further ammunition as to my being a terrible mother. I just see no way out of this hell but will listen to all suggestions.

Thank you.


Yes I have read the checklist and he is definitely in the category of psychopath.

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#6843 - 04/07/08 08:09 PM Re: General Discussi [Re: Carolyn]
Dianne E. Offline

Administrator
member

Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 2789
Loc: United States
Hi Carolyn, welcome to the forum. I know you will worry about him but it might be more important to weigh out the odds of keeping him in the house. What are your concerns about kicking him out? He has no ability to have any compassion or care if he is a Psychopath. I would think seriously about making that step since there is no cure, only more harm and pain for you. You did nothing wrong, he was born that way, it sounds like you are a very caring person but there comes a time that a tough decision will need for the safety of everyone in the house. It is well noted that his behavior will only escalate the more he can get his way with everyone in the home.

He will probably say bad things if he is kicked out this will be the real test of who is your friends and who isn't, hold your head up high knowing you have been to hell and how much more can a person take?

I feel very sorry you are left in this situation. We are all here to listen and help in any way possible.

Di

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#6844 - 04/08/08 04:43 AM Re: General Discussion [Re: Dianne E.]
Carolyn Offline
member

Registered: 04/07/08
Posts: 6

Hello again, Thank you and yes I will determine to hold my head high. I feel so much better corresponding here and reading others stories. It seemed that all I could ever find information on was to do with psychopaths who were violent or killers, political leaders or in the workplace. There was nothing about families. In the family it is much harder to sever ties and especially when you are a mother to your child (and in no way here am I dismissing the hell that happens with a psychopath partner, sibling or other relation).I just find it so hard to let go.ButI guess he would know that wouldnt he?

Once again thank you, this is a lifeline to me. Carolyn

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#6845 - 04/08/08 09:10 AM Re: General Discussion [Re: Carolyn]
jan36
Unregistered


Hello Carolyn

You are not a terrible mother, you are a kind, caring person who has brought up two sons who have no issues so your skills are not in question. The fact that he has got to 19 and you have only just given up on him is remarkable, your strength is to be admired. All parents make some mistakes, kids donít come with a manual so sometimes itís trial and error. Do not feel guilty for small mistakes, only someone who is perfect doesnít make any and I donít think Iíd like to meet that person. We learn from mistakes. You probably did exactly the same things with the other two boys and hasnít affected them, they may go on to do things differently if they have children by learning from these experiences.

Saving the worst behaviour for when you are alone is so typical, itís well know that psychopaths isolate their victims and use charm to manipulate everyone else. My partnerís kid used to smile so sweetly at anyone in the room then turn to glare at me with sheer evil in his eyes then turn back again with a smile that appeared to have never left his face. Of course only I saw that and it didnít seem worth bringing it to anyone elseís attention as they would think it was totally in my imagination. One up to the psychopath! It took a while but I would eventually say sweetly in front of everyone present ďdonít look at me like that when you think no-one is lookingĒ His face was treat to watch but I did have to suffer the consequences later such as him destroying or stealing something of mine and wetting the bed was a given. (Even at 14 years old)

The secret was not to let him think I was the slightest bit concerned. Never show any emotion, not a smile or a frown and never, ever let him know how you feel. Never show anger or even annoyance. Say contradictory, confusing things so he hasnít a clue what is the right scenario, keep him on the back foot as far as knowledge is concerned.

Is there any chance Cameron can go and live with his father full time? If his father is sucked in then let him be, he will find out eventually if he becomes a victim and then maybe understand what you have been tolerating for far too long. Your son is an adult and technically old enough to live on his own so maybe he would be better living somewhere he doesnít have to share with anyone else. If he was able to manipulate the system to get payments for imaginary abuse then Iím sure he is capable of coping. If he comes to the attention of the criminal justice system then he may get somewhere more Ďsecureí to live.
Many young people leave home by the time they are your sonís age so even if he was not the way he is you might have had to let go and watch him make his own mistakes.

You should not beat yourself up as your son has choices and has made the decisions he wants and there is no way you will change that so he will have to put up with the consequences. You know that if he were to become the son you hoped for you would take him back into your heart without a secondís hesitation. Apart from the fact that this will not happen, he does not want this. His choice!

I understand how difficult it is to give up on your own son, I have been watching my partner going through terrible pain and recrimination of being in this situation but he now knows he had no choice but to give up on his son. His kid was determined to isolate his father to keep control over him just like your son is doing.
I think you need to make out to your son that you have no need of a partner as he will use that and anything else for his own purposes to have control. I donít think many people would have put up with my partnerís kid as his behaviour got out of control in his efforts to get rid of me, he knew I was the one who could see right through him and he had no control over me. The kid was out to destroy everything that got in his way and wanted control over everything and he could only keep that control over one person at a time. He didnít function in a group.

My partner has to think of his kid as dead and having to go through the grieving process. He lost the son he wanted not the one he got. He had hopes for so long that things would get better but the longer he held on to that hope the worse things got.

Some things in life just do not have the ending we want and no amount of trying to change that will bring any about a different outcome. I hope this is not discouraging, it certainly isnít meant to be but just to let you know that you are not alone making these decisions.

You will know when the time is right for you to make choices and remove yourself from the situation but in the meantime I hope you keep looking at the forum to get some support.
There is some information in the resources section, a link to ĎHow to Cope with a Teenage Psychopathí written by a step-parent, itís excellent advice. If you canít find it just let me know and Iíll find the link for you.

Could I ask you what red flags alerted you that your son was not like his brothers? What was he like from babyhood?

Regards
Jan

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#6848 - 04/08/08 04:40 PM Re: General Discussion [Re: ]
Carolyn Offline
member

Registered: 04/07/08
Posts: 6

Hello Jan, Thanks for the words of encouragement.I knew from a very early age that there was something wrong. Even as a baby and toddler he had no desire for any closeness and affection. He would also throw temper tantrums if things did not go his way. He hated authority at school, was extremely intelligent and felt he was above all others there including the teachers. He made death threats to a girl whose family called the police but he laughed it off and they eventually put it down to childhood pranks with a severe warning to never do it again.When he would do some bizarre or cruel things i had on occasion 'asked are you crazy ?', when i was at the end of my tether. This would send him into absolute fits of rage and at times I thought my god maybe he thinks he is, but then again probably no. I soon learned to not say that no matter how exasperated i was.

He has lived with his father on and off but his father is in denial about the real problem and keeps thinking he can offer guidance and fix him. i have kicked him out of home but now I need to 'kick' him out of my heart which will take a long time . Once again Thanks.

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#6849 - 04/08/08 09:52 PM Re: General Discussi [Re: Carolyn]
Lady Crown Offline
member

Registered: 11/19/07
Posts: 56
Dear everyone,

Thank you for your cheers! I knew when it was happening, even though I was the only one who could "see you", that my four Pinky girls, Segaya, Sapphira, Jan and Dianne, were ranged at my back! And of course, Lord Crown! Yes, it was a great moment, and I really enjoyed it.

Here's the update: my Psychopath sister called and I played her like a cheap organ. She spilled, unwittingly, everything that had happened. Mom said to her that I was mad about not grabbing the album overnight, instead of the real issue which was the insulting and resentful way they spoke to me. She would prefer it to be about "my" selfishness and greed, instead of being about consideration and decent behavior to others. I knew once the rage died down, that is the version they would justify themselves with, so it was no surprise. So I found out everything that I wanted to know, and Psychopath sister still doesn't know exactly what happened. She tried to pump my mother, and only got that version.

Since then, it's been quiet, thank God. Jan and Segaya, you are so right about them going to try to pull something else to get me back in. It's weird, that my mother started complaining to my Psychopath sister about how we don't get along and people don't fight over things. She wants to see it as greed instead of acknowledging that people have sentimental feelings about photos and the like, that should belong to all the children. She hands everything over to this lazy control freak and doesn't care how we feel about it. She wonders why we "don't get along", and yet this is the woman who, when my great-aunt left me her sister's ring, my grandmother who I'm named after, Mom pulled it off my finger at the funeral.

Hey, Segaya, Lord Crown wants to know if that means a Ferrari is going to show up in the driveway! \:D

I will try to figure out what contributed to this success and post it if I can. Obviously a great debt is owed to Lord Crown who has been trying to teach me about people and how to protect yourself for years. He is very proud of me too, and also wished he could have seen it.

Has anyone heard from our Sapphira?

Talk to you soon,

Pinky love,

Lady Crown

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#6850 - 04/08/08 10:15 PM Re: General Discussi [Re: Carolyn]
Lady Crown Offline
member

Registered: 11/19/07
Posts: 56
Dear Carolyn,

I'm so sorry for your turmoil, and glad at the same time that you found this board, We have all suffered to varying degrees at the hands of Psychopath's, and I still believe the worst damage they do is making you doubt and blame yourself. It is very significant that these Psychopath's continually blame, castigate and abuse you, and yet somehow they are still around. Don't you find that peculiar? People who are actually abused and injured clear out as soon as possible and stay as far away as they can. Yet the Psychopath's stick around because they want you to think their accusations are true and to feel as bad as possible, and they get everything out of that. It is a definite proof.

I think it might be too hard for you right now to "kick him out of your heart". Take it a step at a time; start with protecting your heart against the abuse by believing that you are a good person and a good mother. Nothing you could have done would have stopped this or formed it. And do as was suggested above; keep documentation, including the lies on the myspace page, don't let him know you have it, and as before, don't react. It just keeps them going and gives them the satisfaction of knowing they are hurting you. And that is their goal.

Most of us have started by just not engaging them, and moved onto the cold shoulder, and hopefully towards cutting all contact with them at all. It's a real process, but every little part of it will give you greater courage and knowledge that you are right. It's very easy for a Psychopath to undermine your confidence by their tactics of blame and frenzy, they seem to have an innate knowledge of the painful parts to hit. In the meantime, try to reduce the amount of contact. If he's 19, he doesn't need to you feed or house him, and you can always have a lot else to do that minimizes the times you are together. I'm sorry you feel isolated and friendless, that is very painful. Your best bet is to tell your friends, "we're having problems with my son, so I'll have to see you without him for a time". They will get that there is another point than his, and he won't get to pull them into his drama.

Do read some of the older posts about people's experiences and what they did and went through. All of us felt like we were alone and imagining things until we found the affirmation of this board. Just writing out what you are going through can be a huge relief and many people here have excellent advice. Plus the friendliness and comfort is absolutely invaluable!

Do write back and stay in touch. I hope you feel better and come back.

Hugs, Lady Crown

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#6851 - 04/08/08 10:39 PM Re: General Discussi [Re: Lady Crown]
Sapphira Offline
member

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 92
Dear Pinky Ladies,

Hello again:) Thank you for all your kind thoughts. The silver thoughtcatcher grabbed them as they came by and, like sparkling treasures on a dream's web, they tugged gently and called me back. I haven't had a chance to read all the posts but wanted to say hello first of all, to let you know I'm ok and I hope you all are too!
Lots of love
Sapphira

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#6852 - 04/08/08 11:40 PM Re: General Discussi [Re: Sapphira]
Lady Crown Offline
member

Registered: 11/19/07
Posts: 56
Oh, Sapphira, I was just about to sign off and thought I would check! I'm so happy you're back! Do let us know how you are and know we are all thinking about you! We can't have a lighter shade of pink, you know!

Love and hugs,
Lady Crown

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#6853 - 04/09/08 01:45 AM Re: General Discussion [Re: Carolyn]
jan36
Unregistered


Hi Carolyn

There will always be a space in your heart for your son but I think it will become an empty space. Nothing else will fill it.

The no contact path is the best route to take and it will be a long journey but for your well being and for your other sons it the best way to go.
It's time to get your life back on track because while this son is in your life it will damage all your relationships and friendships.

I had to start the no contact with my partner's kid when he was living with us as he was too young to leave which was very difficult as I still had to cook and do the basics for him. My way was to cut off mentally and think of him as a robot that was programmed wrong. Because robots have no feelings all I had to do was make sure he didn't cause damage by keeping 10 steps ahead but there was no need to communicate with him. Communication has no function other than giving the robot information to work against you.

The relief when he decided he wanted to go back and live with his mother was unimaginable. This was the mother who kicked him out at 6 because she couldn't stand his behaviour any longer. He made out even at 6 that he was treated badly by her. Of course he did the same thing with my partner and no doubt is at it again. The kid's step-father phoned up 3 months after he went to live with them asking 'what the hell is wrong with this kid?'
The kid made out I was the wicked step-mother so many people around us didn't see the real picture and I was often told to lighten up that he was only a kid, that he just felt he had to compete with me for his father's attention.

I used to rage inside as this kid was taking ALL OUR time and attention and trying to destroy our relationship in the process. The plan was to get rid of me and then get his father back under his control.

That was a strange reaction when you angry and asked if he was crazy, I would think that was because he was being accused of being less than perfect not because he believed he might be. That would put him in a weak position....loss of control over his own actions????

I hope we can offer you all the support you need to move forward and get your life back.

Regards
Jan

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