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#6854 - 04/09/08 01:37 PM Re: General Discussi [Re: Carolyn]
Segaya
Unregistered


hai Caroline,
I wanted to repley yesterday but didn't have enough time....sorry!

Luckely I have my ther son too..He is now 18 years of age and is doing so very well..
He knows more andmore his brother is evil. My oldest son says he has his own windowcleaning business and last summer my youngest son worked for him for two weeks... He isn't allowed to have contact with the oldest by his father and told at home he was working with a farmer. That way he could be loyal to his brother and not have a fight with his father...Ohh he is so sorry now for doing so.
he worked for a couple of weeks with his brother and didn't get his money. My oldest son knows this will give him a lot of trouble for the money he earns goes to a special account his father has opened for my youngest...This way he has control over this bankaccount.
So my son came to me to please help him and I did...Ofcourse I talked it over with him and pointed out were he did go wrong and why..he agrees... I also explained this had to happen sometime...Rather now with a copple of hundred euro then in say 10 years time and then it would have been thousants!!!
My oldest son is convinced I ow him a lot, so doesn't want to pay anything...My youngest got his money ( yeah, fromme!!)and he doesn't think I earned anything!!!So bye bye to the money I gave for solving this....

Now my youngest son is very angry at his brother for till now he didn't get in contact and even changed his phonenumber...........

What I noticed during the years that went by is that he ( the youngest)is an expert in coping with his brother... With it goes a lot of loyalty but it doesn't mean he is blind and he knows I found it very hard do handle all of it. Sometimes I did ask him how he would handle a situation.I see your point with what you say about it with your sons, but please leave the door open for them to discuss things concerning the brother for it is difficult for them also and no one understands..So the only persons you can discuss this are the persons in the family itself.
My oldest son is indeed always able to make himself populair with others...If the others were as smart as they say they are, they would look right through his mascarade but they don't . He can play sad and worried greatly so they al turned against me. It gave me a feeling of losing..Losing every thing and everybody..My credibillity was on the streets and they believed every word he is saying.
He is in and out of jail. And every time he is in court he tells his same old sad story over and over again and adds always that now he is on his way with his own business and is doing well finally. Able to pay his bills and if the judge would put him in jail then he will give up even to try for he is so very depressed by it..He has to overcome a very painfull, lonely and hard youth so please give me another change!!!
And no one asks me what of this is treu...And you have to know I have all that happend in writing, police reports, wittnesses in school, neighbours and all you can think of...But what use does it have if no one is interessted and just goes with what the son says?.....


I recongnize what you say about all the accidents. On a dutch site I read it is even edit to the list they use...Accidents over and over again and staying out for the nights...
Since last summer my son had have at least 8 cars and all ruined. he claimes to have so much on his head that he is not even noticing a round about..Yeah ... shure.... what about being high on drugs!!!!
he never worked with other people..Most of the time he is on his own. He spent a lot of time in jail but the time he was free he was in selling things door to door or claimed to have his own business.
From age 7 on up I called him a master psychologist for he knows exactly to find the soft spot in everybody around him.....unbelievable if you are not close enough to notice this in every move he makes.

The day I told him he has to leave the house he was shouting, yelling and so on..well we all know this don't we.... So when he finally was convinced I was very serious he demanded a note, written by me that I, his mother, send him away from home without him having another place to stay ( after telling him for days to look after himself and find a place to stay!!)..... And he thought he had me in his grip...Pitty for him; I wrote a note...(I still have it!!!) and he never expected I would...
I wrote what happend all those years and how he threatend to kill me over and over again.. That I was tired of him keeping control over everything all the time and beating, shouting, I edit a long long list of his misbehaviors and wrote that I finally was so fed up with it that I was kicking him out..I dated the thing, and put my signature on it....
He was so surprised at me doing it and put it in writing!! Untill he read what I had written.. Whaoooww he was maddd...... and never ever showed anybody the note.... He ofcourse was trying for me to confess that I kick out my own little sweet boy!!! ....mmmm( not such a good psychlogist after all!!)

I learne dover the years to let go...Not to lethim touch my life and being anymore...This is hard to do and doesn't come natural and is against everything a mothersheart want..... But it is necessary and it is oke now..... He is out of my live..I se him ones a year or one and a half year...When he comes he'll knows he has to behave in my house acording to my rules..if he is not, I kick him out again...Sometimes he is in for a 15 minutes before getting him out again..sometimes it is even a half hour but that's it....

I wish you well and hope you will bebetter soon. Better in feelig ncomfortable again with whoyou are and what you want to do!
Love segaya

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#6855 - 04/09/08 01:41 PM Re: General Discussi [Re: Sapphira]
Segaya
Unregistered


Hee Sapphira!!!!
Oww Pinky girl I am so very glad to see your posting!!!!!
We all are so much thinking of you!!!!Yes it was meant to be that your thoughtcatcher would get it all...For every day and every evening you are in my heart and thoughts...You are completely all over!!!
And that is a good thing for I want to hold my friends close....
Love to hear how you are... How you are coping for we still want to share all that you will tell us.
Love Pinky hugs, Segaya


Edited by Segaya (04/09/08 01:42 PM)
Edit Reason: gramma.....what else!!

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#6856 - 04/09/08 08:06 PM Re: General Discussi [Re: ]
Carolyn Offline
member

Registered: 04/07/08
Posts: 6

Hello everyone, once again thankyou for your words of encouragement. For years I have grappled with the grim fact that I intensely disliked my child due to his behaviour , it goes against everything I am as a mother and as for my other boys hardly a conversation passes between us without our telling each other how we love each other.

I would also have to put on a mask in public(as my son did). I had to play the game that I was happy at for instance his birthday party or social gatherings and would have to nod with a smile when people would say that I must be so proud of him. This is what society demanded of me as a parent and the real truth was that the only time I felt content was when he was not around and I was not subject to his abuse.

Now I feel an intense sadness, not that I have severed my ties with him as the person he is is not someone I would ever choose to spend a single moment with if he were not my child, its sadness of the loss of a family, what I had expected when I married. When I married we had trouble conceiving and were on fertility treatment. Eventually we had a beautiful baby boy and amazingly, I was soon pregnant with another , my now oldest Jason who I have mentioned before. My baby was unbeknown to me very ill though due to a genetic condition we were not aware of, and he died after a painful illness. It was so hard to watch your baby die . Jason was born and I was still yearning for this 'ideal' family, so in time I fell pregnant with my child in question (with some medical intervention).He was so very wanted. Unfortunately my marriage did not hold up to the stress of our loss and the changes it made to our psyche's and we separated.

I began a relationship with a man which quickly dissolved but blessfully gave me my youngest son. Since then I have been single and living my own private hell , that I have never until now been able to share with anyone who would understand me .I could never have imagined on my wedding day that my life would end up like this. Am I feeling sorry for myself? Yes I am, but I need a bit of time to be sad to fully grieve for the life I did not have.Only then will I be able to pick myself up and start again.

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#6857 - 04/09/08 09:43 PM Re: General Discussi [Re: Carolyn]
Carolyn Offline
member

Registered: 04/07/08
Posts: 6

Its not the thought of severing ties and not seeing him again as like I said before I only have peace when he is not around but I cannot imagine I wont spend the rest of my life wondering where he is, is he hurting others or are his actions causing him to be physically injured? I guess in some way I will never be able to kick him out of my heart but by him maybe I mean not him as a person but the loss af a family that I so hoped for. I dont know, I am so confused by my emotions at present. He has I have been told left town to live somewhere else and went to visit a number of people before he left saying how I was trying to have him committed so he has to get away (so untrue), but he will be back when all resources there have been depleted. In the meantime I need to feel my sadness so I can then find the strength to turn him away when he returns telling me he is so sorry as he has in the past many times before.

When my youngest was three months old I put myself through university,It took seven years and I was then able to buy us a home determined my children would not rely on welfare, I now work with the disabled as well as lecture part time at university. In all other aspects of my life I seem to be strong but it has all been a facade, underneath was a downtrodden at times broken woman who put on her mask just as her son did to play this charade. What a fool I have been !

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#6858 - 04/10/08 04:18 AM Re: General Discussi [Re: ]
Sapphira Offline
member

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 92
Dear friends,

I'm ok and coming back slowly. I've been coping - mostly by pushing it all away:) Such an overload. It made me realise just how reclusive and away from people I have been. Segaya, you were right about fearing being close. Being close was so good and also so scary. But the thing that really triggered it all off was the terrible dream I had that involved my son. It wasn't about him per se but the dream was such a clear and brutal confrontation with pure psychopathy that it sent me into a tail spin. I just felt I had nowhere to hide from it because it has got so far inside me, into my dreams which jump out at me like that. I know it in this way, I can't deny this terrible knowing. I remember Lady Crown saying that it was part of surviving. And I know it's true, and having to face this was hard. It reached so far in, suddenly I couldn't cope with it any more. That was it. That dream totally threw me back into the trauma space. Suddenly everything was travelling way too fast. I just need everything slowed right down now. I completely ran aground. After 43 years of not having a name for the chaos, in one small sentence from the psychologist, that all changed. It's only been four months and it's like totally reviewing my life with a measuring stick to evaluate it all by. So everything rushed to the surface to be reappraised and integrated. I found this site and you wonderful people and many things changed extremely quickly. Then that dream blew the full force right back in my face, just to remind me! But I'm doing ok. I just need time to mentally adjust to what is. It all makes sense and emotionally I have been able to cope but on the mental level - well, my brain is concrete, I'm sure, and it's taking a lot to make the adjustments. But I will get there. I feel positive and determind and I know that it's just a matter of keeping on, one foot in front of the other. And I am lucky to have your examples and support and caring. It means everything and makes ALL the difference!
Love to you and so many thanks for being there,
Sapphira


Edited by Sapphira (04/10/08 04:39 AM)
Edit Reason: didn't make sense

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#6859 - 04/10/08 09:17 AM Re: General Discussi [Re: Carolyn]
jan36
Unregistered


Hi Carolyn

You will always wonder where your son is and what he is doing, that is normal maternal instinct and whatever your son has put you through you will always be a mother.
My partner wonders about his son and feels guilty that he may cause suffering to innocent people he comes into contact with. We know there is nothing we can do to prevent anything he does and just have to hope that others realise before they get sucked in by him.

Your son will be back and you will know he is still alive and kicking but I do hope the strength you clearly have doesnít desert you when you will need it mostÖwhen he says sorry and that he has changed. Thatís exactly what we desperately want to believe and itís so easy for the normal emotion of forgiveness to take over.

As a said before my partner is going through the Ďgrieving processí of losing a child. He had hopes and dreams of bringing up a son to be a valuable member of society and to have a Ďmateí to spend time with sharing hobbies and interests and that has all gone. That kid Ďdiedí. The kid he got is a law unto himself and doesnít want a father, he just wanted a host/victim to suck dry. Unfortunately my partner hasnít got any other children so has no further role as a father and parent and feels a huge sense of loss. At first he felt a failure but now accepts it was out of his hands to make the kid different. As you say itís not losing the kid you have, itís losing the kid you wanted and expected him to be.

Itís natural to feel sadness and I have been known to wallow in it before deciding that I have had enough and ready to move away from it. I would be very surprised if you could have gone through all this and just be able to shrug your shoulders and think ďwell thatís over then, heís gone!Ē

We have all put on the mask so others donít probe us too deeply but also because we donít want them to feel we are needy.

I think your life has been far from a sham and itís understandable that you wanted to deflect attention away form yourself and your family. What an achievement to get through University with children and a baby to look after and you are now making a valuable contribution to society.

I hope you get the support you need to get back to the person you are. It really helps to know you are not alone.

Regards
Jan

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#6860 - 04/10/08 03:39 PM Re: General Discussi [Re: Sapphira]
Segaya
Unregistered


Hai Sapphira,

I am so glad you are doing better.
It's so clear ...4 months only..I think we didn't realize that fact deep enough... I have to say sorry for that cause I should have known..But I got in the flow and forget about the time difference between my realizing and yours that we have to cope with psychopathy and see everything in a different perspective now....One side of it is the huge relieve it gaves to have this insight but the other side of it is logically the devistation (???)that comes with it. It puts the whole world up side down and in side out.... Everything seems to change by knowing, and then there is the realizing that we... the person who has the experience isn't different at all...And what to do with this knowledge and how to put it in to practice and put things in the right place...And there is so much to think of, so much to deal with, so much to grieve over and so much to solve....it is overwelming indeed.

I am so glad you are looking after yourself and that involves taking your own time... your own tempo in things that happen... There is always the way back to us for we do understand now!
And though not on the board, we are there anyways!!!!
I mean it when saying you are always on my mind... Lady Crown also annd Jan and Dianna also.. there is this not visible line between us that is strong and will be there even when we don't feel it so well some times....
last week I had a difficult time also and I felt not alone..... And as said before..I never felt alone but that wasn't in a material way..Not human as you know what I mean..Now it was like I could touch you pinky girls and it filt me with strenght and I felt so very proud...
The strenght of the pinky girlgroup was almost visible for me at that moment..I straitend my back and look the person who 'attackted' me in the eye and made a remark that this person will not easy forget..and the nicest thing??? I have no tact what so ever...And now, this time I made it clear without even reasing my voice!!wonderfulllllll....

I have to keep this writing short..( hihihihi) for I just was with the acupuncturist(??????) and he wants me to do nothing!!!
So next time I will write more... this is it for now....
Pinky love an hugs Segaya

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#6861 - 04/10/08 04:14 PM Re: General Discussi [Re: Sapphira]
jan36
Unregistered


Hi Sapphira

Good to see you back.

I hope you know we are all still here waiting for you and when the time is right you can tell us how you are.

Regards
Jan

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#6862 - 04/11/08 09:58 PM Re: General Discussi [Re: ]
Sapphira Offline
member

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 92
Dear Segaya and Jan,

I don't have a lot of energy but wanted to respond to you both, so will do so together.

First I have to say "Congratulations" Segaya! I am very glad for you, that you have lost some of your tact!! Tact, schmact - I'm sure many of us have too much of it. It's great when we can just shoot from the hip, eh?

Second: I was having a brief look over some of the posts and found the lovely Athene doll. She's just gorgeous - thank you!!! It really gave me such a lift when I saw her. It so did. And you know what? I have a miniature bronze owl exactly like the one in the photo! That Segaya!! - I thought to myself - she knows:)

And thank you for understanding. You are right - so much to adjust to. And the biggest thing is, as you said, the realisation that actually I wasn't the 'different' one. My whole vision of myself is altered and although I feel lighter without all the 'wrapping', this lighterness in myself, of my identity, is a lot to integrate - but I'll get used to it:)

You both asked how I'm doing. Mostly now I'm really just numb. Numb, numb and more numb. Time feels rather warped and a week feels like a month. Looking back I could never have expected that in seeing my mother for what she is the doors on my grandfather would suddenly swing wide open - and oh so wide! My mother and my grandfather's abuse were two separate things in my mind, carefully and solidly walled off from each other. But the sudden realisation of the common ground between them shattered the sense of control I had in keeping things tidy and contained and separate. That totally blew the fish out of the water.

Then it struck me the other day, actually I've known two psychopaths. I was processing two Psychopath's at a time. Another adjustment. Then it suddenly occurred to me, on a level, how close I had come to.... Another adjustment. But it was from an outside. I don't have to ever go back in there again - at least not that far. Finally I have the treasure from that dark space - understanding of just (who) what I was facing. Now my focus is pulled right back. I'm working hard to keep functioning for my son. I'm not quite as tired, but I quickly run out of energy. Vitamins, sleep, basics. This will take time, but the great thing is that things are finally moving for me and my life, finally clicking into place.

Thank you both for you thoughts and care.
Lots of love to you both and Lady Crown and Dianne also.
Sapphira

Need to sign off now - running out of steam.

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#6864 - 04/12/08 06:17 PM Re: General Discussi [Re: Sapphira]
Sapphira Offline
member

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 92
Dear Pinky Ladies,

After posting yesterday I feel things opening up again and today I realiused something - it was my mother's birthday a week ago, and although I know three other people who all have their birthday on the same day, and had wished them happy birthday, I completely and utterly forgot about her. This is quite extroadrinary and has only struck me today! I'm very glad that my life is so 'of itself' that I don't even register her in this way, and I'm also sad because it isn't my natural personality to ignore someone's important day in this way. Notice I'm not saying how sad I am not to have a mother - I haven't got to that yet. I'm certainly not sad that I don't have to be around her disturbing energy. I'm just sad at the changes I notice in myself. Obviously these experiences won't allow us to remain so innocent and trusting, if we are to survive. I just find it hard that to do so I have to go against what is natural. I think this is what Lady Crown was talking about. It feels as though the very qualities that make me human have to be curtailed and modified, and that to survive, in a way, I have had to become a bit like her. This is upsetting to me. When I lived with her, any show of weakness was used against me, so I become very sealed off. I controlled my emotions totally because I had to. Now to express any vulnerability is extremely difficult.

Also, being forced to be so independant I find it also very difficult to rest on anyone else. At times of stress, instead of asking for help, I turn more away from it, and this has lead to heart problems. When things got so bad a year or so ago it was my inability to get support that nearly killed me. Literally on my near-death bed, I realised I would be abandoning my son if I carried on this way. I needed to get some help, at least to understand my severe avoidance and social phobias, which I could see underlay my inability to trust anyone and accept help when I really needed it. So, finally, late last year, I went to see a psychologist and came out with the insight that my mother is a psychopath.

I find it hard now to see any of the world as it was, or to react with the trust and openess that I once did. Actually that sounds a total contradiction to what I was just saying - but in a certain way, yes there was trust. It just seems I'm losing part of myself, along with the losing of my mother, my family and that. Losing some of the good, human, warm qualities. Not that this has suddenly happened. But since understanding this and looking back somewhat I'm so much less open with people now. Losing some of my tact, also:) A good thing, because despite all these experiences, I was too open in certain ways and so not open enough in others. Not innocent, but naieve in a way. But that is changing. I guess, this is where self forgiveness comes in. Extreme situations call for extreme measures. I could see this in others, but it's harder with me.

My exhusband has a child with a psychopath. When we got together he was in constant battle in court. He eventually broke down, emotionally and financially. He had all the court orders possible, apart from custody, but to no avail. It was very painful to watch the terrible injustice, and damage to that child and to my exhusband. In the end, instead of encouraging him to keep fighting, I encouraged him to let go. He had seen me let go of my mother and he finally did in his life and I do believe this was the right thing but I also secretly felt ashamed of how 'hard' I had been and often questioned whether I should have taken another tack. I was pregnant and I guess not in the mood for pussy-footing about. But it wasn't my child I was walking away from. It was so incredibly painful for him, but he did it. Despite many who admonished him, said that a good father will keep on fighting, and what's wrong with him that he's giving up? But I could see how important it was for him to forgive himself and accept his own limitations. It's incredibly hard doing what has to be done. I'm seeing now that the reason this woman didn't suck me in as she was so used to, was that she was nothing new to me, and she had no pull with me, but it was all new for him and a huge adjustment. It's not easy being a survivor. And this is what I'm seeing. In these situations there's no room for grey areas. It's sink or swim. I need to work at forgiving myself for being the one to 'get it' and get out when others didn't or couldn't, and I have to come to terms with the bits of myself that were cut off to do so, or that were lost to change. I think this is what Lady Crown was saying to me -it's a part of life - like the rose: it only grows and flowers properly if it has an occassional hard pruning....I'm working on this.

Love
Sapphira



Edited by Sapphira (04/12/08 06:30 PM)

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