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#6865 - 04/12/08 07:08 PM Re: General Discussi [Re: Sapphira]
Segaya
Unregistered


Dear Sapphira,
So glad to hear again from you.But... your writing gave me some questionmarks.......
You are telling the fact you forgot about your mothers birthday is making you feel sad.
You add that to do this you have to modify yourself in more of a person like she is........???
Is this true??? Really true...or is there an other possibillity.....
something else that is happening?

What about learning.... What about growing.... what about looking after yourself...what about choosing an other way to deal with circumstances, What about not any longer allowing trauma's and bad experiences leading your life?

I think I see those things in a totally different perseptive.

Somewhere on this forum I told that I went to see my mother.I was about 23 or 24 years of age at that time, Since me leaving home ( at just 16 years of age) I went to see her every so many years...never longer than minutes... 20 minutes at the most. Everytime I was hoping she would show me some feelings, emotions. I wanted her to tell me she misses me..I want her to say she was glad to have me as a daughter......... You know so well what I want and what i was wishing for, don't you...
After the usual 15 minutes I left; ashamed, in pain, very deeply sad, lonely in my soul.... And so afraid of the pain I put myself in again.. I thought this feeling would last for months again....

Much to my suprise it didn't last for months..Yeah..true I was crying for about one and a half to two months indeed... But when looking at the reason for all those tears i discovered it was still the fear of what would come.... And i found that it wasn't there at all!!!
I didn't feel that same old familar pain anymore...I didn't feel lonely and abandoned at all.. My soul was quit oke!
So I got shocked by the lack of those feelings and wondered , like you say; Am I becoming more like my mother..just as cold hearted as she is? And I was so very afraid of that. Looking at my son ( My oldest son, the youngest wasn't born yet) I was desparaid afraid to let him be around such a person like the one I was apperently becoming. I wished him a nice loving, protected and care-full youth and not the things that happend to me because of 'her'...... So now what?
I was running around in circles..not only mentally and emotionally, but indeed fysically also... Didn't know any solution , there was no way out in my opinion....
AFter a while with those feelings I came back home after bringing my son to school. And I was crying again..still..pppfff And then it became clearer, and I started to think...Am I really like that or is something else going on??.....
That was the turning point for me. I started to look at it in a different way... On a level for which I had no words at the time..Now I have....
I will try to explain, maybe it can be of some use to you....

The way I see it is that we are in this live to learn...learn and learn more,
We choose people in our lives who will help us learn our lessons. And we also choose circumstances...( the first time I heard about this, I was soooo angry..how in the world would I have choosen vulantairaly for a live like mine!!!!)
When our lessons are learned we go on to the next lesson....
Now looking at it this way it could mean;
You have learned the lesson from your mother that you needed to learn. She goes on living...you go on living, both in a separated space..She will give others who need it they're lessons and will keep on doing so... And you are ready for the next level in your live. To do so it is needed to let go of the old lesson ...And you did..... You are free now to make a different choice.
You made room for the new things to enter your live. And because you seem to recognize something it feels like simmilar to what your mother is doing. But look again. I don't believe this is what is happening. You are not a cold hearted person..The only thing is that you are getting it what it means to look after yourself. YOU are the most importend person in your live. Not your son, or your neighbour or a boss and so on> YOU.... And to make the choice for YOU means to let go of something/body who occupied that space.
You are not hurting anybody by doing so..on the contrary....you are rewarding yourself..That is a different point of view isn't it...
You don't wish bad things to happen to her, so you let go in respect, knowing she has her own path to walk and you are only making room for her too....
So let her be happy in her own way... Rich, a nice relation and so on...And go your own way... You are ment to do so aren't you.....
So, no I really don't think you are becoming more like her or others, I think you are becoming more of you...And you are the nice person you were before, loving, warm, caring doing whatever you can to make live nice for your son, even if that means hard work for you in all thinkable ways.

I do think you are doing what lives planned for you.....And that is to heal, recover, and who knows what the next step on a next level will be.. There is room to grow now isn't there!!!!
Pinky Love Segaya....
( it is passed three a clock at night here..so time for bed!!! But I will come back to you soon.....And in the mean time I hope this can be of help in coping with this..and give you a new perseptive.)

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#6869 - 04/13/08 10:23 AM Re: General Discussi [Re: Sapphira]
jan36
Unregistered


Hi Sapphira

I read your post this morning and have been thinking about it for 7 hours now and I do see and feel your dilemma. I’m always amazed at the clarity of how you see things. You put forward a very objective and rational viewpoint. You want to have the responses of the kind, caring person you are towards others with your mother but I can’t see how that is possible. That is not something you should take any blame for, she had free will to make choices and now she is getting the consideration she earned.
Those qualities you have are still there but saved for the right people. It must be like learning about relationships all over again and how normal emotions fit in.


I don’t see anything you have to forgive yourself for, certainly not for ‘getting it’ and ‘getting out’, what would be the point of perpetuating that worthless situation? It takes strength and courage to do what you did and I suppose because you did it on your own you have no-one to say “good for you gal-well done!” to validate it. The fact you survived your ordeal has made you incredibly strong but I get the feeling you haven’t realised just how strong you are.

I would like to repeat what Segaya said about you being the most important person in your life, your son is lucky to have you as his mother and it’s like they say in the aeroplane safety briefing ‘put on your own oxygen mask before you try to help others’ if something goes wrong.

What I do find very warming is that you are not a bitter person, I can’t begin to imagine how your life was and I would fully expect anyone who has come through that to be bitter, vindictive and unable to form any sort of relationships. How do you learn who you can trust and who you can’t? I also don’t sense any anger in you, maybe if you were an angry person other people would have to suffer what your mother should expect to receive. You have so many admirable qualities. Please don’t let any repressed/unacknowledged anger be turned on yourself.

What I do hope you know is that the people on this forum can be trusted and do not want anything from you but want to give their total support, they want to give to you. Maybe you are not used to being given to as your life has all been about taking from you.

Your ex did what was right for him in the circumstances and I’m sure nothing you did or said would have changed that. My partner too, had to cut all communication with his ex as she was blighting his life but unfortunately his kid turned out the same. Now the kid has gone back to his mother (after living with him for 8 years) my partner has cut off all communication with both of them and this is causing him a similar problem to you. He is a kind, caring person and can’t understand how he can do this and his kid is a monster. He wonders if he really is a good person because he was able to do it. I see he had no real choice and can only hope he will eventually see it too. The psychologist told him that the kid would destroy 3 lives if he stayed with us but will destroy 2 less if he went back to his mother.

I wish there was something I could do to help you get through this time apart from just being here listening. Lady Crown has a great understanding and she is so much like you, staying true to herself and her integrity. It’s great that she can share her thoughts with you.

You wouldn’t believe it….a song called “Pretty in Pink” is being played on the radio as I type. Spooky or what? Segaya may know that song!

I hope you like Lady Crown, can also see your army of ‘sisters’ when you look over your shoulder. Like real sisters we will often be quiet and wait for you to want or need us and are very happy when we do get together. There is no time frame on true relationships.

Best regards
Jan

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#6870 - 04/13/08 02:54 PM Re: General Discussi [Re: ]
Sapphira Offline
member

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 92
Dear Segaya,

It is such a huge comfort to me to hear of your experiences - always. You remind me
that this path is already trodden and that I am not alone, just in line, and that what feels like the edge of a flat earth is simply a new horizon - and to keep walking. You always bring perspective. And I am very grateful.

I lay awake last night thinking over what you say about the lesson. I understand what you mean and I often used to say to myself, this is for a reason - if it doesnt kill me it will make me stronger. I don't know what that lesson is yet, but I do believe it will come. Something must come of all of this. These are the thoughts that have kept me going over the years.

First there was getting away. Then the last 15 years or so have really been about getting out of self sabotaging patterns, creating some stability for myself, learning about some basics within myself. But all along the door on just what exactly was the root of it all remained firmly shut, simply because I didn't have an explanation. Now, in one word, I have all the explanation I need. When the psychologist gave me books to read I could feel it to the bottom of my feet. Then all the doors starting pinging open and then overload. So I stepped back some and suddenly felt I really didn't want it to be true - despite all the questions it answered and 'things' it put into place. I'm really not sure why this is, but it was how I was feeling. There were a couple of things involving my mother that really began to bug me - actually they made me quite furious - and I wasn't sure what to do. On the immediate level I knew doing nothing, refusing to engage, was the practical answer, but within myself I wasn't sure what to do, in the bigger picture. So I was thinking about it last night, putting faith in the process of learning this lesson, and I saw that my biggest fear was that I wouldn't find the vehicle, the outlet, the way forward that I could pour my energies and feelings about this into. But if Life decided I was to get out, I'm sure the plan doesn't stop there. So I can wait and trust....

............

So that was last night. And this morning I got up, with a wee sense of almost excitement. There's nothing to be ashamed of. It was Life's plan, God's will, however one might like to see it. There is need for neither pride nor shame about this. It just is. Probably more importantly is, what am I going to construct positively out of this? This is my transition. And while I still think, yes, trust, I'm not quite so sure about the wait bit. I see I need to find my way. I will look for this because it is the way forward, the road to the next lot of lessons. Here I am now, back to reality, to the real support and understanding here and to being a part of a group of people who truly are part of my real world. Ahhh! And here is where my next lot of learning has begun and will continue from. I'm on my feet, but I need now, as you said, to draw strength and support from those who know and care and understand, and stand straight and tall! Thank you Segaya....I feel very happy this morning!

Lots of love,
Sapphira

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#6871 - 04/13/08 09:38 PM Re: General Discussi [Re: ]
Sapphira Offline
member

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 92
Hi Jan,

Thank you - your post has had me thinking also:) Actually after posting I had realised that my challenge is to learn to be open with those you deserve my care and also, to become open to the care from others. It is very hard sometimes because it's as though I don't have the tools to reference or assess with. Living with a blanket "don't trust anyone" is comparatively easy, in that sense. But there are so many shades of grey in relationships and in people. For me there was either a wall, or nothing.

And I think this is why leaving home was so catastrophic, in quite a different way from the nightmare there. I'd had no real free will. I didn't know how to make decisions or assess a person or a situation. What do I measure such and such by to know whether it is trustworthy or not? I was very good at knowing what was expected of me and conforming to this, but when left to guide myself? Nothing. It was a facility that was so foreign. I had no idea and only a history of having been controlled and taken advantage of, and no sense of my self, so without her directives I collapsed into a massive depression. On one hand because I didn;t know how to do for myself. On the other, because I was wide open to expolitation and didn't know how to avoid this, apart from eventually becoming reclusive. All someone had to do was say something in a authoritative voice and I'd do it. And I really mean that. I can hardly bare to remember some of the things I have done that were so degrading and humiliating. But that's the way it was.

You mentioned emotions. I didnt really have emotions other than sadness, which she never saw, and anger, which wasn't allowed out. My mother controlled this, often by controlling my movements. If I was angry for example, she would have me "Stand still!". Then "drop your arms!" Then she'd have me unclench my fists and teeth, relax my shoulders, breathe slowly, turn slowly and leave the room, then call me back in again to ensure I was still like that, then send me out again. Tears? There were none of those. She wanted smiles. Smiles and underneath to know I was in pain. So it was a long process of learning to express emotion - particularly anger. And there was just so much of that! But if I took one step towards expressing it, it would vapourise. I had to be very patient with myself and start in a very basic way. All the while I knew that I had considerable 'deposits' of it, so to speak:)

I'd had no role model for emotion, except my mother's vicious rages and a kind of euphoric almost manic gleefulness at certain times - particulalry of she'd had a go at me. Apart from that there was nothing. She was so empty. No inward life. She was referred for counselling because of problems she was creating/having at work with her coworkers and she totally hated it! Boy it annoyed her. This was the only time I ever saw her getting bugged by anything, except when she blew up about me. Normally she was very cool and calm. And she never allowed me to get close to anyone else, I was very isolated. That said, the only people who did get near me were the (mostly) men who abused me. Again, walls around me when it suited her, then complete absence of any protection.

Really I learned about emotion from the ouside in. I was in an American library in South America when a psychology book literally fell off the shelf beside me. I will never forget picking it up and wondering just what that was all about. The inner world had made it's presence known! But I was petrified of looking inward because it was so foreign. Of course now I understand why, given her condition. But my greatest fear was to end up like her and so I explained to myself logically, once I had learned intellectually, that I had to take myself inside. I got to the point where I saw that the only person I had any real power over is myself. I could not change her - that was nothing new. So it was a relief to know that I could (only) change me. And if I didn't get out from the programming, then I could very well end up doing some things I would very regret. I realised it was up to me, that no matter how things were for me, how I chose to react would rest on my shoulders. Plus, I knew darn well, that nothing would have given her more pleasure than to either see me go mad, or kill myself. At six I first contemplated taking my life and eventually realised that this is what she wanted and it wouldn't make any difference, so that was that. The other, not going mad, was considerably harder not to do. I figured the biggest revenge I could take on my mother was to get myself back and succeed in my life on my own terms - to take my power back and to thrive without her. So when you say about not being bitter, I'd probably say I just get very determind!

Jan, there is a lot more in your post that I want to respond to but I have only got a short time and need to fly. But I will continue this evening.
Sapphira

Hi again! I have been thinking about what you said about knowing my sisters are with me. There are layers for me with this. On certain levels this is easy to accept. On others, which I am sure you will understand, it will take more time. And perhaps even more than time, is the learning within myself to know how to trust myself with other people. What I do have already is a sense that I am in the right place - for sure. This will hold me steady through the inevitable ups and downs that being so close will likely trigger.

And also, I do know what you mean about reading what someone has written and wanting to respond but not quite knowing what to say. There is much feeling and yet the words clog up. (It makes me wonder whether you are a writer...?)And you really do ask some great questions!:) These touch. These lead forward and show your concern. And when silence prevails, well, if one can hear, silence can say a great deal. Please don't feel that words are required. As you said, the connection is there. I do feel that.

Sapphira


Edited by Sapphira (04/14/08 03:56 AM)

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#6877 - 04/15/08 12:37 PM Re: General Discussi [Re: Sapphira]
Sapphira Offline
member

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 92
Dear Segaya and Lady Crown,

Just wanted to post an hello - to say that I am thinking of you both, wondering how you are, hoping you are well and fine.

Love
Sapphira

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#6878 - 04/15/08 05:10 PM Re: General Discussi [Re: Sapphira]
Segaya
Unregistered


My dear friend Sapphira,

Though I read all your postings, I am a bit ill at the moment so that's why it takes me a bit more time to reponed.
As you know I have a severe heartcondition and for the third time in one and a half month I have a faringitis. I am not allowed to have any fever or infection for that worsens the heartdiseas. I sleep a lot and when not sleping I am just hanging around. watching some television and try to keep eating. So hard work there for me.. whawha I know sounds bad.... But oke, I am getting better now. So, I will be more on the forum again, Promise!!!!
For now I will say to respond tomorrow on a better time for me..( It's after 1 o clock at night again...) I have to learn to go to bed earlier for 'they' say that will be better...
I hope you know I do admire your strenght and the way you figure things out all by your self..You are so very creative....And again; The way you are with words...I have to ask... Do you write poetry???
Love and hugs and talk to you real soon!!
Segaya

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#6879 - 04/16/08 01:17 AM Re: General Discussi [Re: ]
jan36
Unregistered


Hi Segaya

Sorry to hear you are ill. I just want to send my best wishes for a quick recovery. Do try to get plenty of sleep to give your body chance to repair itself.

Regards
Jan

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#6881 - 04/16/08 01:44 AM Re: General Discussi [Re: ]
Sapphira Offline
member

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 92
Dear Segaya,

So nice to hear you! I'm sorry you are unwell and am glad that you are getting better. It's hard to teach an old night owl new tricks but already the doctor ought to be proud of you - only 1am - that's two hours to bed earlier than last time you posted:) I do hope there's something good on tv to keep you entertained and lots of (pinky) treats in the cupboard. Am thinking of you, of course, and wishing you lots and lots of sweet dreams...
Love
Sapphira

PS: Thank you for your kind comments. No, I don't write poetry - but it's nice of you to think I might:)
S


Edited by Sapphira (04/16/08 01:46 AM)

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#6893 - 04/22/08 07:56 AM Re: General Discussi [Re: Dianne E.]
Lady Crown Offline
member

Registered: 11/19/07
Posts: 56
Hi, everyone!

I'm short on time but I just wanted to say hi and give you all an update. I've had the most insane week! (No pun intended!) On Wednesday, at 10 am the gas stove shortcircuited. At noon someone drove into me and my car in the gas station. The bank was closed. The bath flooded over at 11 pm. And I'd had a migraine since 7:30 in the morning. This was all one day! On Saturday we lost the car in the parking lot for 45 minutes due to the store having 5 exits. More terror I didn't need.

I just checked the board, and Segaya, I'm sorry you aren't feeling well. Please take care of yourself. Sapphira, I was so happy to see you were doing better, and it was great to read you were feeling happy!

I'm sending an image for all of our Pinky girls. I will write more later when I have time. Off to the doctor, again!

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f23/Upthespout/Barbie/IMG_5371.jpg


http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f23/Upthespout/Barbie/IMG_5373.jpg

Pinky love, Lady Crown

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#6894 - 04/22/08 02:14 PM Re: General Discussi [Re: Lady Crown]
Segaya
Unregistered


Hi everybody,
Here I am for a short while.....
First of all a warm welcome to all new writers. We all know what you have to deal with in your lives and all wish you well.
Sapphira I read all you wrote and it filled me with so much pride...being ill gave me a lot of time to think about all you told the past week. Again there was so much recognision...It is still amazing me..although maybe we should get used to it in some way...it doesn't get normal that somebody so far away was/ is living the same lives.

lady Crown... I just read your listing of every thing that happend in one day...How is that possible. Wauw.... And the fact you have to look for your car for so very long, It must have exhausted you, I immagine!!!
I hope things are much better now!!!!

I am getting better bit by bit but it takes me longer than I was expecting. I got ill for the third time in a month and didn't want to take anti biotics anymore. I now am going to a acupucturist and it seems to help a lot. Because of the heart condition ( and more) I am coughing for over 20 years already. Last week I woke up and didn't have to cough at all..This is so very new to me.. So maybe there will be a time where there is no coughing at all anymore...???
Thanks for the doll I love it!!!
Untill next time.. Love and pinky hugs for all...Segaya

( Ooo I have to tell..I am wearing my Jan
and Di's now and just washed my Sapphira and Lady Crowns..so indeed I am close to you all....)

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