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#3832 - 11/01/06 11:30 AM Re: General Discussion [Re: Dianne E.]
private007 Offline
member

Registered: 10/26/06
Posts: 3
The state is not trying to get him into foster care. Just the opposite. They are helping in getting him re-evaluated. It is the state appointed therapist, court ordered also, who thinks he resides over all beings, that is holding everything up. He feels he is best suited to treat my sons problems. At this point he has made it very clear that the parents are the problem. See, the more people he blames, the more therapy everyone needs. Now I have a parenting class, and group I too have to attend, and guess who is the counselor for those groups? He is! So now I have to meet with him, and oppose him at the same time.

My son is a perfect gentleman around people at first.He tends to look right at you in the face when he is lieing. He doesn't flinch or twitch. When he lies, he fidgits and looks at you form side to side. Then he gets used to seeing them and acts like he does with us. Our brother and his wife stay the night, in our room. We are camping out in the livingroom and the floor. My fiance feels he would be better able to protect me if anything happened, if we were in the livingroom. Can't put alarms on the doors, it stipulates that we are intimidating him into submission, or so the therapist says.

So now I have to find someone who is willing to leap out of the professional courtsey standards and evaluate my son, without the consent of the therapist.

I am trying to gather any information I can find. I have until next Tuesday.

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#3833 - 11/01/06 11:50 AM Re: General Discussion [Re: private007]
Dianne E. Offline

Administrator
member

Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 2788
Loc: United States
Hi, just an idea. I don't know what to suggest except to start calling any Psychologist or Psychiatrist you can find and ask if they have taken Dr. Hare's course. I think the new Youth Version that Dr. Hare has is for 13 - 17. Most professional people will do a certain amount of pro bono work, hopefully you will land on one that can. I checked with Dr. Hare's office in the past and they don't keep track of who takes the training so this is as much as I can think up.

Di

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#3834 - 11/01/06 06:16 PM Re: General Discussion [Re: Dianne E.]
mybrother Offline
member

Registered: 11/01/06
Posts: 3
Hi,

For the first time I feel I may get the answers I was so desperately looking in regards to my brother. My brother is 38 years old and has been in and out of jail all his life. This summer he murdered our 92 year old neighbour - it was a robbery gone very bad but premediated. All his life he has hurt so many people. I struggle because I love my brother (there were some good times) and I thought he loved me but I'm beginning to think he is incapable of love and the love he did show me was just another con. He gets this glazed look in his eyes where you know to just stay out of his way. His last crime, before the murder, he took a samari sword to a guy in a drug deal gone bad. He cons everyone, including the authorities. His father was also very violent and may have been a product of incest. Both my brother and sister are drug addicts but my sister only hurts herself whereas my brother continues to hurt everyone around him. He blames everyone else for his actions and feels that society somehow owes him everything. But then he turns around and says he's sorry. I help him again get on his feet, only to see him repeat the same crime and destructive behaviour. I am so totally drained.

My sister has 4 children. The last 2 children were born addicted to drugs. The youngest child may be moving in with me because his father cannot raise him anymore. He is 5 years old and is starting to show some violent signs. I am worried this child is exhibiting the same behaviours as my brother. For instance, this little boy plucked feathers out of a live family pet bird, and consequently killed their bird. He has to be harnesed while going to school on the bus because he bullies the other kids - he doesn't seem to know what's right or wrong.

Is psychopathy in the genes? Is it possible that my nephew inherited these traits? And if so, how do you help a child who has these types of behaviours? I'm scared to be a mom and raise my nephew but I don't want him getting lost in the foster care system and getting worse. How can I lobby government to keep my brother in prison? I know as soon as he gets out, more people will be hurt and abused.

Thank you

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#3835 - 11/02/06 11:58 AM Re: General Discussion [Re: mybrother]
Dianne E. Offline

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member

Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 2788
Loc: United States
Hi mybrother, welcome to the forum.

Your laundry list about your brother sure has the scent of being a Psychopath but really only you can figure that out. Since they are treatment resistant it isn't like dealing with a "normal" person and getting them help. Help for them will only add to their skills at being a Psychopath. Being a Psychopath is being all about "me", no matter what you try to do they will never change.

Have you considered having a group family/friend meeting to discuss and set what boundaries each one of you is willing to do. Clear lines about everything will probably be what will let your own family survive. Just because he is your brother doesn't mean you have to stay in contact with him.

There is some gene information that JustAMan has addressed about the current information on the gene figures. I would also suspect that any child could mimick the characterists of their father if the father for example was a Psychopath.

Nothing is ever gained by associating with a Psychopath. Cold hard facts. Without the ability to express empathy anyone including family members are targets for gain to a Psychopath.

Do you vist him in prison? How long of a sentence did he get, only if you don't mind saying.

Di

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#3836 - 11/03/06 01:39 PM Re: General Discussion [Re: Dianne E.]
mybrother Offline
member

Registered: 11/01/06
Posts: 3
Thank you for your speedy response and information. I have not visited him in jail but I have thought about doing so. I want to know why he did it. I want him to admit what he did was wrong. I want to hear that he feels remorse for his actions. I want to know that my brother is human and not the monster that the media portrayed. The same blood that runs through my veins runs through him - so I have to believe that somewhere deep inside of him he feels love and pain like I do.

For the first time I have started counselling through my university. My counsellor advised me to read Hare's "Without Conscience...". My mother does not plan on seeing my brother for a very long time, if at all. My sister is too messed up on drugs to contact him, but if he did reach her, she would give in to him because she always does, like me.

His trial begins next spring and he will most likely get 10 years given his lengthy record. However, in Canada, criminals can get out in 1/3rd of their time. I am worried that when he gets out, he will find me and say he's a changed man and again history will repeat itself. The detective advised that I get a restraining order but I know that wouldn't stop him ~ if he wants to find me he could. My mother is asking the courts to make sure he is never allowed back where we live and that he does his time in another province but it is still in discussion whether that is possible. I think that it just means we are shifting the problem to another community...and that's not fair either.

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#3837 - 11/03/06 02:44 PM Re: General Discussion [Re: mybrother]
sylvie25 Offline
member

Registered: 08/13/04
Posts: 325
Hi mybrother,

I'm sorry you've had these terrible experiences - I sometimes think that relatives of antisocial people are the forgotten victims. In a way it's even more difficult because you're always tied to the person, at least relationally/biologically. It's really good that you've started counselling so that you can give voice to your feelings and have someone help you sort through all of this.

I have a few comments to make first with regard to your brother and then your nephew. I can certainly understand your need to meet your brother and hear directly from him why he did it. However based on what you said about him, I fear you may be setting yourself up to be hurt a great deal if he doesn't seem genuinely remorseful, in the way that you hope. You clearly are a very empathetic person and want to give him the benefit of the doubt but I've learnt that sometimes having that kind of faith can bring damage to you repeatedly if it's not well placed. At a minimum, I hope you would only try to confront him after you have been in counselling for a while and perhaps are stronger emotionally. I'm curious what your counsellor would advise you to do if you ever want to share that.

Reading about your nephew was wrenching - it always is when it involves children. Because of his young age, I'd like think he was only acting out of misplaced aggression towards the bird because he doesn't have any other avenue for hurt that he's experienced. Perhaps because he's still in his early formative years there's hope that through counselling, he can learn to express himself differently. Kids who grow up in those environments must feel terribly vulnerable and frustrated - they need some sense of control and order too. It's great that you would take him in - you seem like you have a nurturing spirit and I imagine you would provide a more fitting and sheltering environment for him to live in.

I hope nothing I said with regard to your brother offends you. It's just that you've been through a hellish time and I think it's important for you to start to heal rather than inadvertantly draw out the pain.

Take care,
Sylvie

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#3838 - 11/04/06 01:53 AM Re: General Discussion [Re: sylvie25]
mybrother Offline
member

Registered: 11/01/06
Posts: 3
Thank you for your input and support sylvia. I wish there was a group where you could meet face-to-face to discuss these issues. There's so much to say and learn.

When the media broke out that my brother had done these terrible things, it made it more real yet unbelieveable. I was in denial at first (maybe I still am). The media never sympathizes with how the family of the "monster" must feel. They only want to report that the family was "messed up"...whatever makes for good TV...but it also happens in the coffee room at work or between friends... "so did you hear about that psycho that..." so yes I totally agree - we are the forgotten victims. I never tell anyone about my family because I'm scared they will automatically judge or stereotype. The man my brother murdered was the grandfather of one of my friends and I still do not know if he knows it was my brother who did it. I still have not talked to him (the grandson) but I dream about telling him. I know I have to tell him one day but I continue to hide under this shield because my brother and I have different last names and we are 9 years apart in age. I saw the grandson (my friend) on the news saying "what kind of animal would do this to a man in his golden years" and there I sit watching and knowing that was my brother.

Thank you so much for listening and giving me feedback. I really appreciate your insight even though I don't even know you.

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#3839 - 11/05/06 05:19 AM Re: General Discussion [Re: mybrother]
sylvie25 Offline
member

Registered: 08/13/04
Posts: 325
Hi MB,

Hope you don't mind that I've changed your name a bit - I feel a little uncomfortable addressing you as "mybrother" even though I understand why you picked it. You're very welcome - posters here can relate to at least some measure of what others are going through and that makes for a supportive environment.

It wouldn't surprise me if you're still in denial. That's a lot to absorb all at once and hopefully counselling will help you cope with the realization of what happened. It sounds like you are carrying your brother's shame. It's a natural reaction especially since less evolved members of society would have you think, that as a family member, you ought to feel ashamed. It's also ironic - especially if he isn't remorseful (don't know whether or not that's the case). I hope in time (and with the help of your counsellor and whatever other means you have), you start to recognize that you're not responsible for your adult brother's actions and you have the right to still hold your head up high based on the strength of your own track record as an individual. Not easy, I know.

I wonder, are you isolating yourself? I hope you do things to divert your mind, rather than ruminating about it all the time (like most of us tend to do). Whether it's reading, listening to music, watching a movie, gardening....anything to try and maintain your emotional and psychological health and keep yourself from being overwhelmed by negativity.

I was also curious if you've looked up support groups for families of offenders. I have to think they exist. Or would you not want that for fear of people knowing that you are related?

Hope you keep posting. We're here to "listen".

Take care,
Sylvie

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#3840 - 11/05/06 10:11 AM Re: General Discussion [Re: mybrother]
Dianne E. Offline

Administrator
member

Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 2788
Loc: United States
Hi MB, I was thinking some more and had some information you might find helpful. Keep in mind that I am pro prosecution.

Getting any form of remorse from him is not possible if he is a Psychopath and if he does say the words I bet you will see a lack of emotion behind the words.

Just because he is your brother doesn't mean you are forced to feel sorry for him or open your doors to him, he has proven how terrible he can be. Psychopaths are the best at feeling sorry for themselves; they just don't get it and when a person is lacking a conscience hard telling what they might do. A person can also get what is called "institutionalized" and feel no particular concern about returning to prison. Many of them cannot conduct themselves on parole and end up back in the slammer.

I would not let his defense team pressure you in any way to give a statement on his behalf to try and repair his already tainted act of his crime. I would be sensitive to the victims and those are the people I would bond with and be on their side.

If you wish to send a message silently to the jury, sit on the side of the prosecution not behind your brother.

You have some very tough shoes to walk in. Regarding the young child. The conscience forms between 3 5, as I understand it. By that point it should be pretty clear what you are dealing with. If he has had exposure to your brother he may be exhibiting some traits. In any case he sounds very disturbed from what you have said, if you are comfortable could would expand what this child is also doing etc? I would have to say make sure you are protecting your own family as a priority. I am sure not every kid who acts cruel towards animals turns out to be a Psychopath, however I see it as a disturbing element.

Di

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#3841 - 11/30/06 11:37 PM Re: General Discussion [Re: Dianne E.]
Melanie Offline
member

Registered: 11/30/06
Posts: 6
Hi

I'm a new member and have joined because I'm sure my dad was a sociopath crossed with a borderline personality disorder. My psychologist pointed out the above to me, and a hospital diagnosed my dad with BPD three months ago. The reason I'm seeing a psychologist is because my dad commited suicide last week which has been very truamtic for me and my family as you can imagine.

What I find most distirubing/confusing is that my dad treated me like I was perfect while treating everyone else in typically sociopathic nature; lying, deceipt, stealing, violence, manipulation. The fact that he treated me reasonably well (he still lied and maniuplated me, but no violence or stealing that I'm aware of) makes it hard for me to accept the fact that he was a sociopath even though I have ample evidence that he was.

The other thing that confuses me is that he killed himself. I didn't think sociopaths/pyscopaths opted for suicide usually?? But, I guess this could be the borderline personality disorder influence because I'm told there's a 9 - 15% mortatlity rate associated with that particular personality disorder.

I'm also feeling terrible guilt for abandonning my dad after his 3rd marriage. He left his 3rd wife 7 months ago and took 25,000 UK pounds of her money. He also sent on-going harrassing emails, letters and phone messages to her, her poor children, her friends and colleagues. I decided I could nolonger tolerate his behaviour and took a 'touch love' approach to him which I regret to a certain extent because he ended up killing himself. All I really wanted to do was protect myself and my fiance from his out of control behaviour and also show him that he needed to get some serious help. Now that I understand he was most likely a sociopath, I can see that I was wasting my time and energy - they never get help unless forced by the legal or mental health system do they?

One other feeling I have is relief - it was incredibly upseting for me to watch him torment others and himself. I felt helpless to do anything to help him stop.

Has anyone else had an experience like me? I'm stuck between missing and being guilty about a Dad I loved, and feeling relief/horror at the fact that my Dad was a nasty sociopath.

Mel

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