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#11364 - 07/13/11 03:14 AM Re: General Discussion [Re: lisondesalpes]
Dianne E. Offline

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Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 2788
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Hi, I am sorry for any confusion, you must be in a great deal of pain and how you need to cope with your words must make it easier. Most people have a great deal of difficulty even using the word Psychopath because of the pain it brings back to them. It must have been very helpless as a child to be with your family. I hope you will share your story when you are comfortable. It has to be a challenge to even face what had happened growing up.

Di

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#11365 - 07/13/11 10:25 AM Re: General Discussion - Part 1 [Re: Dianne E.]
NewStepmom Offline
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Registered: 07/12/11
Posts: 1
Hi there, thank you Dianne for the site, I've been reading up on this condition just by thinking about the traits I see in my new husband's ex-wife, and behaviors I see in my new step-kids. I'm hoping to see some talk here and hopefully some tips to veer that monster's kids into being real human beings. They are a smidge too old (8 + 11, I fear, but I tend ever-hopeful).

Mom is one of the Snakes in Suits (which I am reading currently), and has targeted every sexual relationship she's had, and did so with my husband to get the kids I'm step-mom to. Oddly, but gratefully, she's not targeted me [yet] in any way, and actually goes out of her way to leave me out of things which is also a ploy I'm sure. In the interactions I have had with her, the pathological lying is apparent and so far, when I see it I kind of laugh, as if she must be counting on me [and everyone around her] to be as dumb as she seems to presume. Though, from what I understand, this is all a part of this type's ploy, to talk circles around folks' otherwise logical/rational "argument" or conversation. Fortunately (for my husband, but not for this poor guy), she targeted her former boss, he got fired after she left the company, but the kids were witness to it all, her "dating" this guy the week after my husband moved out of their house after being forced to live in the basement for a year. He had left his wife and kids already. Hideous.

I'm really afraid for the kids, and how I can help. The scariest I've seen from them so far, is the girl (7 y.o., then) taking what must have been considerable time to paint a bruise on her cheek, come down and explain she'd been hit in a snowball fight the previous day. I touched it, as it was quite blue (but pretty scarily darned good), and noticed I could wipe it off. I laugh a lot, didn't know quite about the extent of the ex-wife's horror yet, and so I laughed and asked what she was doing. She looked at me straight-faced, and just turned and walked away. Scary.

The ex-wife used to fake fainting while dating my husband, and also faked a suicide faking the pill-swallowing sounds, etc (phone). I've heard the new husband say she "loses her keys all the time," which I heard and it clicked; I'm sure it's her nonsense, still, to get others to run circles around her. The girl is turning 9 now, the boy is 11 and very overly materialistic (oddly for a boy), too embarrassed to be without the latest-greatest to get out of the car sometimes, and... my husband's not like that and I am definitely not, so... we're hoping. And I'm hoping to find some real directions about how to best work around this monster-mom, who is unable to save one cent, while she and her new husband earn around 600k a year. She spends relentlessly, and just on nonsense, with cars, vacations, and vacation homes thrown in seemingly just to ensure she saves nothing.

So... hi! Just a bit of my background and my interests here. I really am happy I'm not day-to-day with the monster, but am afraid of these kids' development. Would love to find some tips. The new husband is just discovering her greed and almost solely money-related concerns, after 5 years (including the 2 they were cheating on their spouses), which I hear-tell is causing difficulty. In a way I'd love to throw some anonymous tips at him, too, before she bleeds him dry as she did my husband. He seems to actually love her, and says he likes fighting with her, her being a "challenge"; I wonder when he will see the light. It's so much like a movie, and just so ugly.

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#11366 - 07/13/11 11:25 AM Re: General Discussion - Part 1 [Re: NewStepmom]
Dianne E. Offline

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Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 2788
Loc: United States
Hi NewStepmom, welcome to our community, glad you found us. If you would like to get in depth to discuss this new crew you inherited I would be glad to open a new thread, if you open one just be sure to title it so others in your same boat will find it easier to join in.

Sounds like you are in for a ride. Do you and your husband have any pets in the home or plan on having children of your own?

Yes, the old suicide to get my way ploy, one thing to always keep in mind that in the mind of a Psychopath, they are always the victim. Sounds like you have a front row seat to a horror show but it is a good sign that your eyes are open and can brush it off in your mind but there are many factors here that need more exploring. Statistics show that even non Psychopaths who threaten suicide are calling out for help, it is the ones who just do it are the ones to be concerned about. Psychopaths don't kill themselves as a general practice, they are far to busy sucking the life out of anyone around them.

Do you suspect the kids are fledgling Psychopaths or like the experts tab them kids with conduct disorder? It is always good to explore if they are behaving in odd ways because of their mother or if the gene is in them also. Since the conscience forms between 3 and 5 about the only thing you can do is protect your home and husband from them disrupting things. Don't let them become the center of your life or you will lose sight of your own relationship. If you think they might just be acting out because of the mother then another approach could be taken. However, if you suspect they share their mother's gene then it is a new ballpark since these kids will be in your life, like it or not so you will need tools to survive it and keep your marriage strong. If your new husband is in denial then that is another thing that needs to be addressed to bring him to the same space you are in with your thinking. How did you decide to start looking to see what she was about, was it any particular incident? There are lot of cheating, lying greedy people but some alarm bell have had to go off to suspect she is exhibiting Psychopathic traits. I had a front row seat with the same type of woman, I didn't know about Psychopaths because this was before I started the forum over 14 years ago. After many years of being a consultant at Intel she arrived on the scene and took a dislike to me for no reason and convinced her boss who was a senior VP of all kinds of things that were lies. I about fell over when I read the depositions about the lies she convinced him about me, I had to sue to force her (Intel) from stealing my designs and it wasn't long after that she took down the VP who supported and believed her.I was well known and had been an employee before becoming a long term contractor yet she who was new and was believed over my long track record. So there is that thin line that needs to be explored. I only really figured out why when I started exploring Psychopaths, not because of her but because when I thought back I remembered the day my alarm bells went off and it was triggered by the evil look she let loose one day, when you get a look at the unmasked eyes of a Psychopath you don't forget it, I can still remember exactly where I was standing when pure evil came my direction. Then I could eliminate my original thoughts that perhaps she was borderline or just a rotten person.

Is the new husband the one who was living in the basement or was that the boss she got fired?

How often do the kids come to visit aka wreck havoc in your life? If I had any concerns about them like you seem to be expressing personally I would put cameras in the house and never leave them out of your view (with the cameras). The cameras are pretty cheap these days and you can even watch them from your computer to see what they are really up to. Google nanny cams.

Warning the new husband would probably not be a good move because it will more likely than not get back to her immediately and she will turn her focus on you. Don't think that someday she won't turn on your because anyone in their range is fair game. The way to be with her is to stay out of her radar as much as possible, when she lies, don't do anything unless it could cause some harm. Does your husband see all of this the same way you are? Sometimes it takes a fresh look and you have the distance to probably see things more clearly.

I would put on your detective hat because you are in a situation that you can't just take a walk from but you don't want to let the chaos ruin your relationship with your new husband.

It would be critical first step to figure out if the kids are modeling behavior or if you have a bigger problem on your hands. Modeling behavior there is always things that can be done to adjust, conduct disorder aka Fledgling Psychopaths is another issue. I think as starter I would put in cameras and observe. If the kids are modeling behavior then as responsible adults they need help. If you read the stories here about helpless children now adults raised by them you would need to try to do something. However, I would be cautious because if they do indeed have the gene, I sure wouldn't put up a fight to have them live with you full time.

I'll be around and checking back to see what direction you want support with and if you want to continue I can move these posts to a new thread. You need to decide if the kids need protection or if you need protection from them. They can do all kind of rotten things like blame you for abuse etc. so information is power to know what you are dealing with.

Di



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#11368 - 07/15/11 04:56 PM Re: General Discussion [Re: lisondesalpes]
Sayit Offline
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Registered: 07/08/11
Posts: 25
Hi, I get you!
I just thought not calling it an illness is beneficial 'cause psychopaths can't use the "mental illness" label.
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#11369 - 07/15/11 05:09 PM Re: General Discussion - Part 1 [Re: Dianne E.]
Sayit Offline
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Registered: 07/08/11
Posts: 25
Hello, Di:
thanx a lot 4 ur reply.

I recently taught myself to use my laptop - thus navigating on sites is still foreign to me.
yes, I'm interested in a thread, once I figure out how to use it.
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#11370 - 07/15/11 05:45 PM Re: General Discussion - Part 1 [Re: Dianne E.]
Sayit Offline
member

Registered: 07/08/11
Posts: 25
Hi, Di:

Did you ever read SNAKES IN SUITS?
The authors talk about "psychopathic fiction" - where nothing is real - faking it every-which-way.

This is what I don't get: when the psychopath is married with children, how long can he maintain the fiction before found out. For instance: his wife or child gets sick and the psychopath would have to fake caring.

I can see thru anything that's fake - I mean, it's not brain science.
I think I could see thru the [censored] in about a week by asking the right questions and reading face and body language.

I think these people - the ones who marry psychopaths, must be naive, lacking in life-experience, or needy, or desperate, or whatever.

I was 19, so had the excuse of being inexperienced - and had no parental support.

I think the woman my son married is a greedy bitch 'cause my son is worth about 20 million - so I guess I could say she deserves what's coming to her.

Interestingly, when my son, the kid from hell was 8 yrs old, he announced he's going to be rich - imagine at that age!
We had his intelligence tested and it turned out he was way beyond his yrs. He understood early on that rich people get away with stuff the rest of us don't - this is truly the case. He uses his money to manipulate and exploit people to the max- and will abuse his wife as he sees fit - and she'll tolerate it because hubby is rich.

I hear time and again you can't hurt a psychopath, but they've their achille's heel.
I see nothing wrong with revenge, as long as my safety is assured - it could be a healing thing.

So long 4 now!
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Sayit

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#11372 - 07/15/11 07:55 PM Re: General Discussion - Part 1 [Re: Sayit]
Dianne E. Offline

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Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 2788
Loc: United States
Hi Sayit,

I can understand your anger but I would suggest you might read the threads here about revenge, I can look them up in a bit and post them. I do think that perhaps we should focus on your issues with your son and leave his wife out of the equation. She is a victim, we don't know anything about her but we can hopefully helping you resolve your pain and feelings toward your son. I doubt she is happy no matter how much money your son has.

If that is okay with you then I'll get a thread set up or find one that is discussing a parents issues with having a Psychopath for a kid.

I would feel empathy for her, I doubt her life is a bed of roses.

I'll be back in a bit to look up some information to post for you about revenge.

Di

Quote:
I think these people - the ones who marry psychopaths, must be naive, lacking in life-experience, or needy, or desperate, or whatever.


Based on the last 14+ years of providing support for victims I would prefer not to judge how they get involved with a Psychopath because from my experience the profile of victims they are kind, caring and some of the nicest people a person could know. They deserve our respect and kindness to help them.

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#11374 - 07/16/11 03:57 AM Re: General Discussion - Part 1 [Re: Dianne E.]
starry Offline
member

Registered: 01/06/11
Posts: 350
'Quote:
I think these people - the ones who marry psychopaths, must be naive, lacking in life-experience, or needy, or desperate, or whatever.'

It's really upsetting to read this.

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#11375 - 07/16/11 04:04 AM Re: General Discussion - Part 1 [Re: starry]
starry Offline
member

Registered: 01/06/11
Posts: 350
I'm really shocked that someone could even think this.

I wouldn't say that any of my dad's wives/victims were 'naive, lacking in life-experience, or needy, or desperate, or whatever.' I include my mum in this.

I would say they were all bright, sparky, intelligent women who were deliberately targeted, abused (and in one case for sure almost killed) by a very violent and abusive man.

That's where the blame lies. Not with the victim/survivor but with the abuser.

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#11379 - 07/16/11 08:27 AM Re: General Discussion - Part 1 [Re: starry]
skybluepaint Offline
member

Registered: 02/05/11
Posts: 100
I would have to agree with Starry and Dianne that the people who get involved with psychopaths are not necessarily naive, lacking in life experience, etc.

In my case, I would say it was the opposite. The psychopath was young, naive, lacking in life experience, needy, and desperate. I became her target through which she could gain some experience. I became her friend when she needed a friend, her counselor when she needed help with her problems, her lover. When a new 'friend' came along, she recruited him as her counselor, asked for help with her problems, and used him as her lover. It was like a cut-and-paste script. NOW I could see through it, but at the time there was no way for me to know.

Psychopaths can seem like these lost souls and you want to help them. I have graduate degrees, plenty of street smarts and relationship experience and am not easily fooled. Yet, the psychopath's plight, the tale of woe they use to lure you in, and the flattery are pretty overwhelming. Most usual relationships don't start out with helping someone with their problems. However, unless you know that "playing the victim" is a tool of the psychopath, you don't see that as a warning sign. In fact, you see it as unique, special, that you first bonded emotionally by helping the person out and you grew close. It seems innocent from an outside perspective, but it is far from innocent for the psychopath who could practically reenact the whole scene in their sleep.

Psychopaths have a confounding way with words as well. They are adept at using spoken and written words to achieve their goals, and yet sometimes their use of language is a bit off. If someone said, "I looked into your eyes and I saw love," most people would fill in the blanks and think it was a poetic way of saying I love you. What it really means to the psychopath is that you obviously love me. Even though I've taken a linguistics course, I wouldn't have analyzed the phrase; I took it for granted that they were saying they love me. No matter how intelligent you are, you make assumptions that the person you are interacting with is human and is speaking and acting in a human way. But, they aren't.


I would compromise with you that in addition to the empathy and wanting to help the psychopath there could be a little something in the victim's life, the person who gets involved with them, that predisposes them to falling for the psychopath. In my case, I was going through a period of low self-esteem and the psychopath picked up on that and built it up. I wasn't needy or desperate, but was vulnerable. I guess we all have our vulnerabilities. We just don't expect to have to be on guard so that people don't take advantage of them.

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