hi everyone. i am really glad i found this site.

i haven't had a lot of time to look around, and this seems to be a pretty big site, so if the answer to this question is already posted someplace i would really appreciate being directed to it.

how would you determine if you have/had a parent who is a psychopath? i haven't seen my father in 19 years (thank god). i am now almost 37. my father has to be the most conscious-less person i ever met.

thanks.

jamie

In reply to:

---

how would you determine if you have/had a parent who is a psychopath?

---

As you have no contact with your father, one course - psychiatric diagnosis - is irrelevant.

There is no simple answer, and it is not a question anybody can answer for you.

The only thing you can do is learn as much about the subject as you can and then ask the the question of yourself.

If you intend to seriously address this question, there are a couple of books that I reccomend you buy (available from Amazon)

"Without Conscience" by Robert Hare
"The Sociopath Next Door" by Martha Stout

Its a complex and evolving field in which there is both a deficit of basic research - schizophrenia for example has been far more heavily investigated than personality disorder - and where there is a wide variety of opinion.

Theres a fair ammount of info on the web - very variable in quiality and a lot of it just rehashing other sources. Search terms to use at Google "Psychopath" " Sociopath" and "Antisocial Personality Disorder"

As you have had no contact with your father for 19 years, the qustion of whether he does or does not deserve the label "Psychopath" would appear to be academic. You know WHO he was because you grew up with him, and any conclusion you come to regarding psychopathy will have no practical benefit for you now.

In contrast to your situation, for many people who suspect that the person they are in a relationship with might be psychopathic, the correct answer to the question can have profound implications to the future course of their lives - if they come to the conclusion that their lover / husband / business partner is a psychopath then there is only one possible course of action - the relationship must be terminated, as there is only ever ONE outcome of extended contact with a psychopath: damage - any combination of emotional, physical and financial. A relationship with a psychopath cannot be 'fixed' and the psychopath will never change - thinking otherwise is a trap many people fall into.

Feel free to ignore this if you feel Im being nosy, but why do you want to know? Does it matter at this stage what label you place on you father? Will it help you in some way? (this is just me being curious)

Exactly WHY psychopaths become psychopaths in the first place is very open to question, so just being able to stick a label with an agreed definition on your dad will not tell you a great deal about WHY he BECAME the way he was.

In my opinion the origin of psychopathy is a complex interplay of nature (genetics) and nuture (environmental influences from all sources - parents, siblings wider society) which results in the failure to establish a child-parent bond at a very early age, and then a subsequent failure of the normal process of socialisation - and I repeat thats just my own feeling on the subject.

The trouble is this is also one of the areas about which least is known. I also think that there are likely to be a variety of 'routes' to psychopathy - no single simple cause for the emotional deficit (inablity to process and react in a normal emotional way to external stimuli - the psychopath does not emotionally 'feel' the difference between a photograph of a dieing baby and that of a Duracell battery) which undelies the syndrome - the observed cluster of behaviours, character and lifestyle traits which together are are the outer signs of 'psychopathy'. Even physical damage to the pre-frontal cortex of the brain (e.g. bullet or car crash or infection) will do - sometimes a radical change of character from 'normal' to that of a psychopath will result.

i said i haven't seen my father. i didn't say i had no contact with him. he e-mails me almost daily. mostly it is just to say things like i am a useless waste of space, but sometimes they are actually threatening to harm me, my wife, or my daughter. i don't respond to any of this, i simply save it on disk and forward a copy to my attorney. that way if something does happen there will at least be a reason to look at him.

the question is largely academic at this point. i just happen to be a weirdo who likes lables. it makes me feel that i have a sense of control which was sorely lacking when i was growing up. in that respect it has immense benefit to me.

no, knowing if my father is a psychopath will not help me make the kinds of decisions i would need to make if i was still in direct contact with him. i did just what you suggested and terminated the relationship the day my twin sister and i left for college. but for me on a deeply personal level, it's important to come to some conclusion about why he did the things he did.

thank you for your reply. it gave me some things to think about, which i like. i will get those books, also.

jamie

Hi Jamie28

I read your post and JAM's response with interest. I think JAM always provides a good, practical response with clear descriptions.

I want to add something on the emotional side. Even if you had no contact with your father I can see why you would want even need to know why things happended, why he did things, is there a reason, is he ill? etc etc. I have no contact with my ex, but he is the father of my child, and I still ask these questions. I need to know for my sake, and my daughter's. I need to know if he is likely to come back playing more mind games in the future.

It must be awful for your wife and daughter having him threaten you all, even if they don't see the mail, I am sure they can sense when something is worrying you.

I think you should keep up your research as it is important to try and answer these questions but you must also protect your family from harm.

It can also be beneficial to write down your story and how you feel - then you can either post it here if you would like some feedback, or burn it!

I am always keen to hear the comments of children of suspected Ps - because of the struggle I have had with the system and the lack of recognition of the consequences of being in a relation ship with a P. Another poster was just asking about raising public awareness - as this is so difficult to do. The children of P's should be heard and their views taken seriously when it comes to forcing contact between a P and his/her child.

Was your mother and twin sister able to escape from his influence too? ( Don't answer if you don't want to)

I know that my 5 years with a P left me in a scrambled mess which I am still working through, I dare not think what being brought up by one would do to me.

Hope you keep posting.

Good luck

Recovery

In reply to:

---

i said i haven't seen my father. i didn't say i had no contact with him. he e-mails me almost daily.

---

Do you reply to ANY of his email, Jamie?

and what other contact do you have?

As he is dirctly threatening you and Your family, I suggest the best thing to do is a) break off ALL communication of whatever type. b) talk to your attourney about a restraining order.

Personally if anybody was threatening me, I'd phone the police as a first step. Explain the situation and see if you can persuade them to visit and talk to your dad. Perhaps a visit an a quiet talk from a couple of burly coppers would convince your dad that you don't like being threatened - or take it lightly.

recovery-

was my mother able to escape his influence? she left us when we were 12 and our older brother was 14. none of us have heard from her since. i understand why she left, but i will never understand why she didn't take us with her.

my sister and i both have a lot of emotional problems. i have been in therapy for all of my adult life. i probably will be until the day i die. my brother has asked that we have no contact with him. he says he just wants to "forget it all" and get on with his life. i hope he has managed to do that.

i probably will end up writing down the story here sooner or later. i'm not particularly shy about it and have told it in other places. i have to be feeling pretty stable to do so, however, and the last few weeks have been pretty rough so i will wait until i am in a better frame of mind.

best of luck to you and your daughter. my heart goes out to you.

jamie

JAM-

i don't reply to any of his e-mails. ever. i can't really stop him from e-mailing me. i could block the e-mails, but i choose not too because i do want proof in case anything should happen. as for restraining orders, we have them out the wazoo. i'm also the co-owner of a company that designs and sets up security systems for businesses, and our house has a similar security system to most small banks.

i have contacted the police and mostly been told that since he is in another state they can't do anything. when i contacted the authorities in the state he lives in i was told that unless he breaks a restraining order they can't really do much.

my father is very, very intelligent, extremely charming, and to put it lightly "financially secure". even if the police did talk to him i have a feeling he would turn it around so that "his poor mentally ill son" seemed to be making up stories. this happened to me while we were growing up. i have no doubt it would happen again.

the e-mails are bothersome, and i do take them seriously. i have also done everything i can think of to keep myself and my family safe.

it's good to find a place where people actually take my concerns seriously. i appreciate it.

jamie

In reply to:

---

i don't reply to any of his e-mails. ever. i can't really stop him from e-mailing me.

---

Hmm... exactly what and why some offences are 'State' and some are 'Federal' has , as a Brit, always been a total mystery to me.I think its something promoted by Hollywood. The bad guy on the run making for the state line makes wonderful cinema.Especially when he's on foot making for the bridge over the river and the sherrifs deputies and dogs are close behind... I seem to be going off topic....


Ok...

I see you have verything pretty well taped on the practical side... I do find it odd that although he is not getting any response from you that he still persists in sending email...

Normally when you institute a regime of no contact with a P they will persist ( for quite some time!) with attempting to make contact but will eventually give up if you don't respond - the whole point of the emails is NOT to communicate anything to you, but simply to get you to REACT.

Hence the abuse and threats. He's attempting to get you wound up emotionally to the point where you snap back at him... dragging you down to his level...'You're just like me really'

.. at which point your dad will be sitting there in front of his computer reading your rant... with a grin on his face like a fox picking sh*t out of his teeth with a wire brush...

as far as his emails are concerned, I wouldnt even open them. Just set up a junk mail rule (based on his email address) which will sort them into their own folder when you recieve them. Every few months export the messages and save to CD

i can't say i am completely sure i understand why some things are federal and others are state, either.

i think i will try taking your suggestion and just having them sent to a junk mail folder. i don't know if i can really resist reading them, for some reason i feel almost compelled to do so, but it's worth a try.

i suspect that my father knows that even if i don't respond to him the e-mails still get me worked up. he doesn't have to have any response to know that.

this site is amazing. i have had a chance to look at it more and the amount of information is staggering. and all very interesting.

jamie

Hi Jamie 28

Thnaks for your reply. I can imagine that it hurt a lot when your mother left on her own - i'm sure she had reasons, people always do. But you have your own family now, and I am sure you will keep each other safe and strong.

I think it is fine to research the past, as long as you don't live in it. I also think that psychopathy is a sickness - and the P has no choice in what they do - that's what I hang on to when I can't understand what they do.

But that does not change the fact they are dangerous and like to mess with our minds and bodies. Keep up the no contact rule too.

Good luck

recovery