After emerging from the black hole of a reactive depression to the distress of having a p in my life, I finally have some morsel of good news: I saw the forensic psychologist who is evaluating me and the p to decide custody and gave her my heartfelt position against her remaining "neutral". I told her that the judge needs to be educated in the the ways of a p and that he will do nothing (like follow court orders)unless he is compelled by the judge to do so.....which means sending the bum to jail! The psychologist said that he is a p, that I would probably get custody and that the battle doesn't stop after that. She said that my p will drag on the divorce process for years and fight everything. I was overjoyed that she intimated that she will recommend me and confirmed that he really is a subhuman creature. The only bad thing that came out of this was that although she recognizes that my daughter and his son from his first marriage will be psychologically and probably physically damaged by p, there is no way that p's partental rights can be terminated or visitation limited or supervised until something actually happens. This pains me as I have to wait until my daughter is sexually abuse before I can attempt to protect her from her father. No wonder women kill their spouses or abduct the kids to another country. I cannot fathom fighting this man for the next few years as the legal bills are a suffocating avalanche.

Thanks to all for your kind words of hope. I have reread it many times to try to climb out of the abyss and you have really strengthened me (that and a lot of antidepressants)I am not sure I am going to be able to fight this guy without having to live on the street penniless so I ask, is it worth it to spend one hundred thousand dollars to get back thirty thousand just for the justice and validation I would hope to eventually get out of this ridiculous judge?

Hi survivor, thanks for the update, sadly. I am glad to hear that you received some validation. It must be a nightmare of a situation that you are in, I am hoping for the best for you and your daughter.

survivor,

Glad your back! Been worried, wondering. Thought about you tonight at work, hoping you would post and sure enough...

As for the legal system, it bites. There are laws out the behind ranging from spitting on the sidewalk to murder and everything in between. Protection from abuse/Restraining orders can be obtained requiring the offending party to stay a certain amount of feet away from the potential victim. The social service department will investigate any allegations of child neglect, abuse, endangerment, incest, etc. Mediators can offer their services to find a middle ground for Divorce/Custody issues, prior to going back to Court. A person can pay an Attorney, make a zillion phone calls, fill out all the proper forms, file all the required legal documents. They can file Police reports until they are blue in the face. You can spend your life savings and anyone elses that will give it to you, doing what needs to be done in a Court of law, to win...to protect yourself and your children. You can make it your life's goal to continue to fight each and every battle the p starts. You can follow the letter of the law and "wait" for some horrible thing to happen. Because that is what you will do. KNOW and WAIT.

All the legal documents, filings, Motions, Decree's, Court Orders in the whole wide World are not worth the paper they are typed on when dealing with a p. You are dealing with someone who has no respect, regard or appreciation of the law to begin with. To the honest person, all those legal documents mean something. To the p, they mean nothing. Just another chance to show even the Court system that they do not have to follow rules, like all others do.

So, while all this leg work/legal work is being done, the p is victimizing again and again. By the time the laws are enforced (when it is brought to the attention by someone other then you, no doubt) the damage is done. P damage.

Laws are in place to only be enforced when the crime is actually committed, never when it "might" be committed. By the time the law is enforced, the crime has been done.
People are hurt, lives are shattered/ruined. The damage is done. P damage.

There was an article in our local newspaper this past week about a car accident involving a drunk driver with no drivers license due to 3 prior DUI's. The biggest concern of the whole matter seemed to be that this person was driving without a license. It was stated in the article that those who break the law by driving without a valid license are going to do it anyway, so it will be hard to enforce without setting up a spot check. They might as well have informed the public to drive without a license any time, day or night, no big deal, do not have time to enforce. Also, the matter of the 3 prior DUI convictions for this guy seemed to not even be the point! Reminds me of going to the Post Office and seeing the mugs of the 10 most wanted. I ask myself, "why didn't they just keep them when they took the picture?"

Yes, laws are useless. By the time they are needed its over for the victim. The general opinion seems to be that the Police, defense attorney's, etc. do "not have enough staff, resources, hours in a day" to enforce laws already in place.

Our legal justice system should just put out a brochure stating which laws can be broken that will go unpunished entirely (which is most all), and which ones may go punished i.e. Murder and only if the victim testifies (think about that happening!).

If funds were cut back to all those people in our good State(s) that are elected to make/amend/strike laws, maybe there would be a mountain of money available to enforce those already on the books. But no! That would put the law makers out of work.

As for spending 100,000 to recoup maybe 30,000, that is your decision. Ultimately, with a p, the best I feel a person can hope for is that God has the staff/resources to punish according to the crime. Unfortunately many victims will suffer tremendous emotional, physical and financial hardship in the interim.

Those of us who try to fight the p through proper channels, legally, will pay a high price to do so. Is your childs welfare worth it? Yes. Will it be easy? No, never. How sickening for you to have to wait for her to be hurt in any way, before you can legally protect her. How pathetic it is that you must spend all you have and more to do it. You have someone saying, yes, he is a p, but no, the crime has not happened yet.

At best, maybe the p will mess up in another way and be jailed before the mess up includes your child, but that is a sorry way to have to look at it. A "wait and see" if the p goes to jail for that, or this, or worse yet, at all.

I would not want to be in your position. You have some very hard work ahead of you and must be strong to do it. After a p, inward strength is not our strong suit. I suggest you speak with your child following every single visit with the p. Watch for the signs of incest. Believe everything your child tells you. Act on any suspicion or fact immediately.

As for running off with your child to another Country i.e. understanding why some do that, you probably would not because you have a conscience. The p does not. That is why they are habitual law-breakers. Law abiding people also sometimes want to throw caution to the wind and do what goes against law and their conscience. They do not. That nasty little thing called a conscience stops us everytime. That is why the majority of those in prison are psychopaths. We're not there and its darn obvious why....conscience.

A psychopath takes all you have to give, then causes you to have to give more than you can take.

p.s. To cherie, I know I wrote almost the opposite about custody issues to you, but your situation is not the same, if I remember correctly. Also, I did tell you that you would have to be very strong to fight the battles that may come. I write this strongly to survivor, because at this point in my life, I really feel deeply that laws are useless.

good luck, survivor (and cherie)
I do wish you both a victory in all that comes your way,

Laura

Survivor {{{HUGS}}}}!!!!!! I am sooooo happy and relieved that you're back! I've though about you every day and prayed that you were ok and YOU ARE!!!! And your sweet little girl. I hope shes's doing fine as well. Its no wonder that you went into depression. Anyone would considering your circumstances. I'm glad you sought out help that way and its working.

The fact that you got validated by the forensic psychologist. The more expert witnesses you have on your side the better for your case (as I'm sure you already know).

Survivor, I had custody issues with my children and the P. He tried to play "Mr. Mom" to the hilt! To influence the teachers, judge, everyone. I won't go into all the gory details of how I FINALLY managed to get primary custody of my children. And there is NO court ordered visitation for them. Its up to them. But they are older children and could also speak for themselves. The thing is, I believe that no P should ever have custody of children. And yes, the legal system does not always mean the justice system. I am still involved in litigation and the costs are astounding.

I guess I believe that its worth it to fight for your daughter because if he has sanctions placed on him by the law, even if he doesn't obey them for awhile, he will build up a track record and he will eventually be caught. It might take awhile. But just because he's a P doesn't mean that we should throw our hands in the air and give up. Not at all. Survivor, you can only do what you can do. I've chosen to fight certain battles with the P because I have to. Try to get the best attorney that you can (I went through 5 attornies). One who is very smart and who sees the P for what he is. A good therapist is necessary to help you strategize in times of stress. There is a site that helped me. Its's called:

THE TAO of DIVORCE: A Woman's Guide to Winning.http://users.primushost.com/~tao/concept-preface.html This is an excellent resource and helped me a lot. In fact I need to look at it again.

Yes, its really a challenge to do this divorcing a P, and with children ( and in your case, a baby!). It can be done. Have faith in your ability and strength. Its really hard, but you WILL get through it and keep your baby safe.
And when you get discouraged reach out to those who will support you, validate you, and keep you going. If this forum validates you, then come here as often as you need and want to.

Hope this helps,
Cherie

survivor, I am so very relieved to hear from you, again. And I am elated to hear that your forensic psychologist finally sees what you know.

I can't offer any opinions on the legal battles. I have never been to court, in my life, except for a speeding ticket. But you seem to be getting some good advice.

The important thing is, something has turned, in your favor, and your child's favor. It may be a small thing (compared say, to getting a reasonable ruling from the judge), but right now, it means the world to you. It represents hope. And it heralds hope. Small things are often the beginning of bigger things.

((survivor)) I'm happy and hopeful for you, kris

Thank you all for your support. I have read and reread your replies a dozen times and it gives me hope. Cherie, you are so right when you say that the legal system does not mean the justice system. I wish that my husband's visitation "rights" would be superceded by my child's right to have a nontortured existence without the p....

I will get custody of my daughter but we haven't even gone to trial and I have 70K in legal fees because the p is fighting everything with appeals and whatnot. Since the judge does nothing but drag her feet we spend more time in court and costly motions. I pray for his death every day.Some days I just want to hand over the kid and say take her you pig just leave me alone and never contact me again (fantasy that by just giving the bully the candy that he wants that he'll actually leave me alone). The fact is that I am tied up with this jerk and need the benefit of your experiences about how to get through it through the long haul. Feeling very afraid for my daughter, especially when Kris said that her daughter was damaged by the p on another post. Kris, how is that you avoided the costly legal bs? Did your p decide to leave you the house and some meager money to live on? Does he have some "decency"?
Laura, thank you for your insightful commentary. You are right on the mark.....

Survivor,
I too am so glad you are OK. Although I had not been posting frequently, I had read your story and when you left was very concerned for your health and well being. My personal experience was with a particularly dangerous and violent psychopath and I remember how cautious and afraid and how very very depressed I was on top of all the wonderful things that go along with PTSD. There were many days I just felt like giving up, but I knew it was important for me to persevere since I have two children that needed love and stability. I salute you for your bravery Survivor. You are modeling strength, fortitude and perseverence to your daughter and someday these lessons will be valuable for her.

Do you have an excellent attorney that can advise you on how best to proceed to minimize the financial impact, while insuring sole custody of your daughter? I did not marry my Psychopath, but went through hell just separating from him. I lost money too. My heart goes out to you Survivor. Antidepressants helped me too, as well as finding this forum and reading about the experiences of others. I tried to deal with things a day at a time. When I started thinking about the future, I felt overwhelmed and scared. I had a therapist early on who suggested that I prioritize things I had to do, and slowly do one thing at a time. I'm still doing that now, albeit imperfectly.

(((Survivor)))

Neverthesame

Neverthesame, thanks for your kind words.
In answer to your question about the attorney, I have an excellent attorney but to me the attorney participates in the soul and pocketbook rape. For good representation I have to sell my entire future earnings because I will be in debt for at least a decade or more.
I do feel like giving up as there is no end with a p but on those days I hug my daughter close and hope that she will be less damaged than I fear. How did you protect your children? Sometimes I think that I would have been better off if I didn't marry him but I guess your story could help me see that with a p it doesn't make any difference: they are equal opportunity torturers regardless if you are legally bound. I just think it would've been cheaper if we didn't have this divorce sh-- to go through.

Laura,

You said: You can spend your life savings and anyone elses that will give it to you, doing what needs to be done in a Court of law, to win...to protect yourself and your children.

This is so true and is draining the finances of my elderly parents after I have exhausted mine.

All the legal documents, filings, Motions, Decree's, Court Orders in the whole wide World are not worth the paper they are typed on when dealing with a p

Boy, have I found this to be true! What an understatement.

The damage is done. P damage

This is so true. P damage almost sounds like a good song title.....

A psychopath takes all you have to give, then causes you to have to give more than you can take.

Very wise observation.

You sound like you are on the mend from your p. Good job!

survivor

survivor,

Yes, a psychopath song, good idea. The p would hear it, love it, because they would think it applied to their previous victim, which of course is the reason so much p damage had to be done. Lol! If there had not already been a movie by the same name, or has there?, we could write one and call it "Clueless".

Seriously though, when I filed Divorce, 4 days after the abandonment, which, now that I think of it has nothing to do with what I'm going to say....anyway, when the Divorce was final on November 1, 2001, 5 months after filing, I asked the Attorney how to enforce the financial aspects of it. He laughed (not at me, at the situation). He said, "this S.O.B. (yes actually said that!) doesn't pay anyone what he owes them, do you think he's going to pay you, even if you find him and serve him?" "You will never see a dime from this loser." Funny, he described my Divorce in the same way my marriage could have been described. His description of the p was accurate also. So, I call private detectives. They tell me to wait, he will develop a paper trail. Wait as long as I can, then hire a P.I. So I wait 11 months. Hire a P.I. She finds out real interesting stuff, none to help find him, but interesting none the less. I wrote of this to BonnyR or operalover on the old forums.

She finds that he used an address he actually lived at 7 years after we married! An address in another town, one he had not lived at for 7 years. Well, he lies, had a secret life the whole marriage. It appeared I must say, that he was living with me in this City the whole time. But with the p, things are not always what they seem. Personally, I think he used it to buy things/pawn them, his favorite pastime, and knew that when the bill came for the goods, they would have to travel 7 years into the future to find him. Smart guy the p. Of course, I do not know how the P.I. obtains their information, I will assume archived credit header files, police records? maybe, I just don't know. She even had the exact date he used the address.

Also, as I've stated before, she found him at AURM 6 01 and AURM 07 01, two months after the abandonment, in this City. Trouble is, there is no such addresses in this City like that. Of course it does not take Einstein to figure out that "AURM 6 01" means "abandoned you raving maniac June 1, 2001". Yes, he planned ahead, huh? Even had the guts, if you can call it that, to USE the bogus address so that it would be reported that way, knowing full well I would continue to look for him to serve him the Divorce papers. But thats okay, cause he made me the raving maniac he thinks I am, so maybe his gigantic ego is proud of that? Like I say about ex husbands, "they didn't marry a B---h, but they turned me into one!" I mean, why would they marry a B? I can see it now, telling all their friends and family, "she's such a B---h, really, I think I'll marry that gal!" Lol!

I read these posts of horrible abuse. Violence, hitting, beating, poisioning, incest, and on and on. Horrible stuff that humans have suffered at the hands of a p. Anyway, I was fortunate that mine only probably tried to kill me the night before he left, pizza thing, never laid one hand on me or called me one bad name the entire 8 years. Well, he did yell at me "YOU CLEAN TOO MUCH!" the week he left. Took me by surprise, yes you could eat off my floors, its a bad habit of mine, cleaning, but I rambled something about "it gets my mind off my problems", and he stormed out of the room. Had I known he was going to say that, I would have screamed at him, "YOU LIE TOO MUCH!". Oh well, rather have a clean house than a lying mouth. Hope his next victim is a slob.

Getting off the track again...what I meant to say was sometimes I wonder if my p was a p or just insane. As p's are not classified as legally insane, maybe THAT is what he is? Are all p's violent? Do they all hit/beat/torture physically? I think the answer is no, they do not. Which also makes me wonder if my p is the sickest of all in the head? Since he had no real outward signs i.e. bruises on me, yelling matches for the neighbors to hear, etc. yet has ALL the p traits, plus some, that is so SCARY.

My children's father told me once that "it is the quiet one's you must fear, because you do not know what they are thinking." I realize that there is much fear in being beat, hit, chased, everything the violent p's do. Not to be the least bit insensative to their victims plight, but it seems that it is "out there", the p stuff, the abuse. Right out in the open. My ex p is very subdued, quiet, outwardly calm, charming, talks quiet, sleeps quiet, walks quiet, moves quiet, like I said before, the Pink Panther. Very, very sneaky, always leading two lives the whole time. He even admitted to being one man at home, another when he walked out the door. Trouble was his alter ego affected me tremendously when his good ego came home. Good at leading two lives, lousy at keeping them from crossing over into each other.

On the mend? I wish. I guess you could say I am, as what choice do I have. He's gone. I really don't know how I will ever get over being duped, conned, hoodwinked, used, lied to, emotionally raped, manipulated, mind games played, cheated on (although he would deny), financially ruined, etc.

I just know that when my friend told the p 12 years ago that I was too good for him, that he should not even try to date me or know me, that it lit a fire under his behind to prove that guy wrong. Sad part is, my friend could have told me the same thing i.e you are too good for him, don't date him or get to know him, and I would have listened. But I didn't ask about the p. Could have cared less, he was a loner, BAD rotten teeth (now wearing $1200 set of dentures my folks sprang for years ago), boring conversationalist, childish, cheap, conceited. Took him 3 years of practice on other victims, women and men, to polish his p skills and present an image that would cause me to overlook the above loser traits.

I read that Ted Bundy was shunned by a woman and he spent 2 years convincing her to love him. She did. He dumped her like yesterday's news. Why? To get even. He said so. To SHUN her. That is what my p did. Spent 8 years "getting even" with my friend, who as it turns out stayed in our lives during the whole marriage.

Again, mending? Numb is more like it. I take one day at a time, and sometimes that day seems like a month. Mostly the anger eats me alive, the financial loss is no picnic. I fantasize about what I would have spent my tax refund on, had I received one dime of it. $1400 gone that I worked all last year for. The p knew that would happen. Again, the one easiest to find.

I hold on to the hope that everything that goes around comes around. In fact, I know it does. It may not be the same punishment that was inflicted upon us by the p, but it will be something that will hurt them horribly. When I divorced my children's father, (not the p), he was terribly hurt. I gave him the house and physical custody of the two oldest (AFTER asking all 3 children what they wanted at the time). The two oldest wanted to have their "room", stay in the home. That was fine, it was joint custody and they were back and forth until they grew up. Anyway, I did not feel real bad about hurting him, because I was FREE. I thought my life would skyrocket now, all that I deserved that was good would now be mine. Wrong. I met Mr. Wonderful, (again not the p), got engaged, got abandoned while I was at work 2 years after he moved in. That guy left a note though and I knew exactly why he left. He picked beer over me. My fault for giving him the choice? He was under no legal obligation to even leave a note, we never married. The p knew I had been "abandoned", and swore "I will never do that to you. That was a terrible thing to do, you did not deserve it." After the first two abandonments by the p, I reminded him of what he said, and stressed the fact that what he meant by "never do that to you" was LEAVE A NOTE!, but of course, silly me thought he meant "never abandon me."

Anyway, I went from an alcoholic, to a wonderful man that I was in too big a hurry to get remarried to wait on, to a psychopath. So me hurting my childrens father, ultimately hurt me. I suffered far greater pain, depression, financial loss since divorcing him then ever would have happened had I stayed married to him.

Whoever said "The grass is always greener" was looking at artificial turf!

Take care, will be speaking again soon for sure. (Until my computer crashes, anyway.)

Laura

Hi Laura and all

I have been reading the stories and just thinking and absorbing in what everyone has written, especially relating to your story.
I was the girlfriend of a guy who was supposed to leave his wife a few months back. I now say "was" because I have finally reached the point where I am no longer sucked in by his manipulations and his charm has cooled. So, that attachment or whatever it was is not strong anymore. I think "reality" has set in and Prince Charming is no more. He told me he was in the process of leaving that month. Well, the "leaving," got to be excuses after excuses. I can understand about the double life because he tells me about going to family functions with his wife out of obligation. Here again, playing the dutiful husband so the wife will not suspect and stringing me along.

He was so charming and larger than life and sucked me in and then it didn't last long. I mourned the image of what I thought he was. I believed all the stories. Someone really phrased it well, "the soul of a woman." That is what it was but that soul is not showing anymore. It seemed to be all an act.

Yes, Laura, I even got the story that his wife was crazy and an obsessive housecleaner who only cared about her house. So, most likely, he is the one who complains and she does all the cleaning as to shut him up.

There is was so much inconsistencies in what he says that I wonder if he doesn't have a schizophrenic disorder or just so many lies, he forgets what he says. The last time I saw him he was irritable and drunk so much he passed out, with a promise to cut down with excuses for drinking. I don't see him as doing any better and I know I would do better without him.

Yes, you are right, the grass is not greener. I thought it was when he charmed me after an estrangement. The last time I saw him I thought I was going to be able to walk away, but didn't. The last straw was when I discovered him where he shouldn't have been and he showed no remorse. It was "my fault" for finding him there and I should have trusted him.
I think I wanted validation that my hunch was correct.
It is almost like the story of a wife hiring a P.I. on her husband and he is cheating and he berates the wife for hiring a P.I.

So, the moral goes, if he cheats on his wife, most likely he will cheat on you, too bad I was so stupid. Psychopath? I am not sure but he scored high on the checklist but definitely a
serial cheater!

beenthere,

I have been thinking of something lately. My ex p has a younger brother. This brother fathered a child, did not marry the woman, because she is "crazy", the p said. But get this...the woman has the daughter, in another State, legal custody and the p's brother has specific, legal visitation only at certain times and I believe, with supervision. Now, the p convinced me that this woman was crazy and of course, to put his brother through all that when child support is being paid by the brother, what a mean, mean woman!

Or the brother is a p too? She is probably a scared woman and it would be nice to know her secrets on how she managed to get the law enforced to punish the possible little brother p?

Laura

operalover,

Good to hear from you. That fake promise was made to me the night he walked up to me in the Club and asked me how I was.
I told him "other guy" dumped me for a bottle of beer, then the story. You are right, promises made now, can't be kept in the future. I ran out of money, no home, no credit, no use anymore. Had to be abandoned to move on to the next gig. His promise was only good if I was of value. No value? No promise. Live and learn.

Thanks.
Laura

operalover,

Red Flags:

Met the p when he was 22, I was 32. Told this already. Red flag then? My first impression of him was that he was conceited...later on, cheap. Tipped me $1.25 in over one year.

3 years later. Ran into him again. Together for over 8 years.

Red Flags that night? Many. In hindsight.

1. Alone, appeared out of nowhere. Had been observing me, I had not a clue.

2. No vehicle, little brother came to pick him up and had to be escorted in by a bouncer, due to brother being a minor.

3. Let him drive my vehicle, he couldn't "find the gauges", so we sit there for what seemed like forever. Turns out had no drivers license.

4. Sleeping on dad's couch, 25 years old.

5. Talked for 4 hours in dad's driveway. He told me then that he wanted to marry 2 or 3 women in his past, but they did not want to marry him. (Sympathy lies) Also set me up for thinking this guy would commit.

6. Told me he had wanted to date me for 3 years, since first laying eyes on me. (How romantic, waited 3 years, I must reward the guy for his patience!)

7. Told me that he had gone to school to be a welder, but could not find work in that field. That was true too. What he neglected to tell me was that he owed $7,400 on a student loan!

8. Told me he left a small town in this State, only 3 months earlier. That he "got sick of living in a small town", sold everything and came back home. (He abandoned everything, owed money, may have had a wife, I am still planning to research that, strong possiblity)

9. He told me that he met Martina McBride, country singer, in that small town. May have, she is from there. (I know famous people, be impressed)

10. Told me he was in a band in that small town, but wasn't the lead singer, not good enough, even though it was his dream to go to Nashville. (Okay, now I'm impressed. He sings, dances, plays the guitar...all things I cannot do)

11. He asked to see me again. We were engaged in 2 weeks, as much my doing as his.

12. Biggest red flag? As much as I hate to admit this: I was living with a guy, to this day my best friend, the one who "didn't want to get married and I wasn't going to wait on him." Honest, handsome, good personality, chick magnet.
So I see him on the dance floor and I say "Oh! There is the guy I live with!" The p knows him, envied him for years. He was shocked. He carried on so about me living with that guy. What kind of a relationship was it, he asked. I told him, "just friends, he dates other women." The same day Mr. Decent moved out, p moved in. The three of us even laughed about this being a good one for Oprah or some other talk show. Mr. Decent did not come to our wedding though. He told me don't marry him, "you can do better." I thought he meant his rotten teeth. I told him, "he can get new teeth. He loves me, treats me like a queen. I'm marrying him."

Mr. Decent still my best friend. He married a wonderful gal, has kids. She is lucky (they both are), I know what she has. I do not love him in "that way", absolutely just a friend. But he did turn out to be a pretty good husband and father.

I traded a possiblity of Mr. Right for a Psychopath. Hindsight. And the p knew what was going to happen all along.

Laura

beenthere,

I have never been "the other woman", but I've been the wife being cheated on. With first husband, I knew, just didn't know who until later. With p, I did not know, he was that good. However, two weeks before the abandonment, we went out, something we rarely did. Some woman smiled at him really big, eye's lit up like a Christmas tree. She had just sang a kareoke song and was leaving. The club only holds about 50 people, very, very small quarters. Anyway, I see this, her smiling so big at him as she leaves. I look into her eye's. This is the sickening part, I thought to myself "she's a psychopath too and she's involved with my husband!" I really looked right at her, our eye's met, and I honestly thought "she's a psychopath." As she walked up the stairs to leave, I looked at my p and said "who was that?" He denied knowing her, even seeing her. So I said "the gal with the Shirley Temple hairdo and the, (for the forum I will say it this way), broad beam?" He continued to deny knowing her. Her image was in my head and I could not shake it. He was acting very, very odd that night. On edge, stressed, anxious, it was a horrible night. Anyway, we left not long after that, he had a migraine. Within a few days it dawned on me. I had seen her before. Not in person, but pictures. The p carried a black briefcase of all his Army treasures. He took it even when abandoning me. Her picture was in it. This HAD to be the same gal! It was the ONLY pictures he had of any woman from his past. Any. The story was she cheated on him while overseas and he caught her with his best friend, whom she later married. He called her horrible names. Also, he claimed that her dad was retired Navy and very wealthy. That her family came back to the States to live, but she had grown up in that Country and wanted to stay there. Hmmm...very rich father, p deep in debt for gambling and wants to run? Find old girlfriend, bring her here, set up housekeeping with her, tell wife you love her with all your heart and do not want a divorce. Don't help with bills, because girlfriend needs all your money. Give wife lies of love, give girlfriend love. Yes, it was her. He is a p, he will travel back to familiar ground. Besides, now he has a good set of teeth. More conceited than before.

So I am glad that you see this guy for what he is, what he will be. To be the wife being cheated on hurts pretty bad. Yes, cheats on wife, will cheat on you, eventually. After all, you tolerated it, being the "other woman", so he knows you will tolerate cheating. He just hoped you wouldn't figure out he would do it to you, until it was too late.

For myself, now, I have told my boyfriend don't ever tell me you will never cheat on me, nor will I tell you that. Then if it happens, no one will have lied. Pretty poor way of looking at a relationship, but at this stage in my life, and at my age, I believe it is a realistic way of looking at it.
Speaking for me and me only, I can forgive a cheater, if they stop after the first mess up, but I can never, ever, ever forgive a liar. To me, cheating can be considered human, lying is on purpose. I know others will disagree with me, but my p had others before me, will have others after me. Its all just intimacy anyway. Yes, fidelity is pretty important, especially when you love someone, I know this. All the diseases out there too. But its just flesh.
Actually, intimacy with another is the easiest thing to have after a p. Its all the other stuff we lost that is hard to replace.

Or maybe I've gone bananas? I hope not. I like this new attitude. If I'm not constantly worrying that some guy is going to cheat on me, or find somebody else and leave me, it free's up a lot of time to actually enjoy the relationship and have a fairly honest one. Usually if someone feels they are trusted, they can be trusted.

I spent more time with the p outside of the bedroom. That is where he did the most damage, outside. I got over the intimate with the p thing a long time ago. Or maybe its menapause and I could care less? Lol, I hope not!

Remember this is my opinion. I know that I probably hold it alone, and thats okay. Its working for me this way.

Laura

Hi Laura

I am sorry it took me so long to get back with you due to work and trying to gather my mile a minute thoughts.

Please don't be so hard on the other woman. She can be just as wounded as the wife. The P or whatever label you want to use has cleverly portrayed himself as the caregiving victim to the crazy, over-controlling wife who uses suicide to get her way. Slowly with time, the threads of truth start unraveling. The flattery becomes less frequent and the stories of the wife from hell subside as he seems content to have his wife for security and his mistress for his own ego-gratification all the while saying he "needs for more time."

With time, out of the blue subtle comments are vocalized, which seem to unmask the truth about him: "I feel empty, I always been what others wanted me to be or I want to feel alive." If that sounds like a P, well, then the shoe fits.
Operalover, where are you to analyize his comments? I have had my share of many emotions, but I do know know what empty feels like. I always had emotions, depressed or happy.

I do understand your feelings about cheating Laura. It frees ones up from worrying about the future and concentrating on the now. Yes, you are right about the lying that hurts, as I found him where he shouldn't have been and made some feeble excuse as to why and I believe he knew I knew, but I didn't have a claim on him anyway. What was I going to do?

Again, I am sorry for all that you have gone though and I have done so much soul searching myself that I don't have any excuses. I just know that I was vulernable, stupid wanting to hold on to the myth of Prince Charming.

I hope you are doing better. Beenthere

beenthere,

Hi! No need to apologize for not getting back on here. Great that you have a life beyond this forum, even though this forum is a Godsend! I think you may have thought I was calling the woman in the Club a psychopath out of anger or something due to the obvious fact my p DID know who it was? What I really did, was look at her, at her green eyes and she was smiling so big and her eyes had that charming/beguiling look that female psychopaths are said to have. That hypnotic p look. I had, by that time, done my research, knew the p was a p, and knew about the "eye" thing. The way they draw you in with the sparkle and depth of them. Her eyes were JUST like that! So, honestly, it really entered my mind in an instant, a second, "she is a p". As for her hair like Shirley Temple and broad beam, that was true. Besides, she had just sang a song. My p always wanted a singer to love. I could not carry a tune in a paper bag. The p lived in a fantasy world, a cowboy, guitar playin', country music singin', ropin', ridin' world. He married a city girl, (me) and longed for his cowboy days. Yes, she fit the BILL. Although, a coworker saw the p in a sandwhich shop with a tall, skinny, blonde, who looked like a "dominatrix" (sp?) One thing for certain, the p covered up WHO he ran off with so I wouldn't warn her and so she would not know he was married. In my case, the p will never have to lie about what a horrible wife I was, because he hasn't told her about me. I believe he was married when I hooked up with him, still need to investigate that one, pretty sure though.

My ex p is so very sick in the head it is scary. He is serial killer sick in the head. I just know it. I must wait until he messes up royal, then I will have to bite my tongue to keep from saying "I told you so", as I tried to warn the police and the p's family that he's a psychopath. We all know how that goes over. Yes, in reality, he IS a serial killer already. I am not his first victim of soul killing, will never be his last. I really believe he will cross the line someday. I know some psychopaths just con you to death, some kill you. My ex p has a very disturbed mind. He is capable of the evilness of the famous Ted Bundy, I believe, because no one would suspect it of him. He, like Mr. Bundy, is handsome, charming, very good with words, polite, convincing, every hook imaginable to do the worst of deeds. He also goes from City to City, State to State, same as good ol' Ted.

Will my ex p slip? Has he slipped already? Yes, yes, yes.
He just hasn't got caught. He is the type of p the greatest of p's are envious of...the one NOT in jail. My ex p may be the smartest p of all, ever. Thankfully I can say, "God knows what all he's gotten by with", because God does know. So, he won't get by with it forever.

Doing okay, just like all of us. Some days bad, some okay, none great. Stay in touch,

Laura

Hi Laura,

Thanks for your prompt reply. I got a life, but a pretty mixed up one right now and this forum has been a God send to me. Another reason I haven't responded sooner and probably didn't clarify too well, was that I also been in like a stupor processing thoughts and emotions.

Someone on the forum had told me life only gets worst with a P. She was right! Like your story, I was really sucked up to and made to feel like a princess. After he had gotten his so-called emotional hooks into me, the emails less personal and the phone calls less frequent. He knew I became emotionally attached, so it was not anymore fun for him, and so I believe he is on to his next victim. I feel sorry for his wife and God help me, there are times I would really like to pick up the phone and inform her of his deeds. I am not saying I am innocent in this, but my intentions were good and I really believed he was the victim, but like yours, he is a soul killer. I am not sure what you mean about a very disturbed mind. If you want, you could privately relate in a pm. About the one I knew warped mind, I will relate more on another post, his need for deviant stimulation/thrills which was the ultimate warning to get of out Dodge.

beenthere,

I don't know how to do the PM and is it even available? By "disturbed mind"....hmmm. I don't know how to answer that. Okay, here goes....

I was abandoned before the p. Only I wasn't "abandoned" as manipulative and calculating. I was left a note, an explanation, but it was still over. It was done while I was at work. My fiance at the time. Picked beer over me. This was 10 years ago. Married the p over one year after that, as you know, left me in the wee hours a year ago. Okay, here goes..... I wrote a poem and it was published, about how I felt about being abandoned by the alcoholic and, ultimately, falling deeply in love with the p. As follows:

Loving you was hard
Knowing it was over was torture
Feeling the pain cut like a knife
Going it alone was heartbreaking
Being free was confining
Living without you was not living at all
Loving him is easy
Knowing he loves me is pure joy
Feeling his love is ecstacy
His love makes my heart glow
No more desperation only elation
It seemed a time that I would hate you
For your goodbye
For all the tears I cried
For the emptiness inside
Yet here I am
Thanking you
For him

It is in a book. My p loved it and was so proud that it got published. The book is beautiful. I could not take the moon from the sky and give it to the p. I could not buy him a mansion to live in or jet us all over the world. All I could do was love him, love him with every bit of my heart, and put it in the written word.

What in the !!!??!! does this have to do with a disturbed mind you ask? Nothing, nothing at all. The disturbed mind the p has is that he is a psychopath. He truly is very polite, mannerly, quiet, so un "man" like. Did not hunt, fish, watch sports, go out with the guys (he had no friends though, maybe that is why). He didn't belch, burp, pump iron at the gym, yet had male qualities i.e. mechanic, truck driver, fix it man, builder of things of wood. He was the dream man to me. That is what I mean by disturbed mind. Not that he didn't DO "man" things, but that he didn't seem to be bothered by it. He preferred to not do man things. A good con artist knows what a woman likes. How many women have competed with a sports game on TV, hunting trips, fishing outings, spectator sports, restoring cars, nights out with the guys, on and on? I would guess most all of us at one time or another. But not if you had my p. He would simply NOT do any of it. What I have tried to say on this forum is that he was really, really good at integrating my personality. The best. He did what p's do, hone in on my comments over the relationship regarding complaints of past loves that spent more time with their fishing pole or buddies than me. He made certain that not only he did not do that, but that he did not complain about not doing it. He wanted to be my dream man because he needed me for money, a roof over his head, credit, and the possiblity of a big inheritence should I drop over. Do some men not like men stuff? Well, I guess. But the p is the first and only man I have ever met that didn't "like" any of it. He meshed to me in every sense of the word. He became me, my thoughts, my actions, my opinions, my desires, my wishes, my tastes, my likes, my dislikes. He mirrored me so much it was unreal. I just don't know how to say this. I feel it, am having a heck of a time putting it into words. This guy is GOOD at faking things. Real, real good. That is why I think disturbed mind. He could charm the skin off a snake, con a homeless person out of all their coins; he could sell sand in a desert, water at an ocean. He knows better than most men what a woman "wants" and does not want. How? By LISTENING. By WATCHING. By ACTING. If I had never met my ex p until, say today, and he walked up to me and asked me if I needed a ride somewhere, I would get in the car with him in a heartbeat. By the time I got out, I would be in love. Even if we only drove one block. He does not, and I repeat, does not, have ANY outward signs of being a psychopath. By outward, I mean obvious maybe? He is so very polished and smooth, that he would only provoke laughter (envy of him, not at him), jealousy of him, etc. were he to outwardly show p signs. If he were to have hit me, screamed at me publicly, brandished a weapon, drove 100 miles an hour down the road, kicked in a door, hit a wall, drank, did drugs, anything! anything at all that could be associated with being a psychopath, then he would look it. He has the spine of a jellyfish, the temper of a cotton ball, and nerves of steel. He is a very self controlled p. Outwardly. Inside he is a p, through and through. A man once told me that his deepest fear would be for his brain to be studied and all it would say in it was "got caught." The p would never have that fear, because before one may get caught, they must be suspected of something. The people I have spoken to about the p's check writing just laugh. One lady called about a small doctor bill he owes. I told her abandoned, blah, blah. She laughed. I called his employer to see if he turned in his work uniforms and if he went to work the day he abandoned me. His employer laughed, "he just dissapeared, didn't he", hahahaha. I called a payday loan company. The women I spoke with turned out to be a relative of the p's sister. She was telling me that he was living with his "sister now", assuming she meant the one in Arizona. Now, this woman was a assistant manager of the payday loan company, one the p wrote a check to on our closed account. She tells me that she basically knows where he is, but that the check has been turned to recovery and it is up to them now! So I tell her I WILL find the p and notify every business he owes money to as to his whereabouts. She hung up on me. Now, do we all experience this with a p? Blame the victim. Yes, probably. But, I have no bruises, no trips to psychiatric help for the mental damage/abuse. I have no witnesses to the abuse except for my son and his friends and those involved in each abandonment. Let me put it this way, all the p's "witnesses" are his allies. He made certain of that. All mine are truly witnesses of the p damage.

He is like the best looking, best tasting, candy Easter bunny you've ever seen. You've just got to have it, all of it. Then, when you get it and start eating it, its hollow inside. Empty. So you buy another. Its hollow too. But for some odd reason, you want a million more of this candy bunny. Because its the best you've ever had in your life. And they are all hollow.

Yes, he is very scary. He can do anything cruel and mean and mentally abusive to whomever he wants and no one, absolutely no one, will believe or want to believe he did it. I guess they like tasty hollow bunnies too?

Take care of yourself,
Laura

Hi Laura,

You need to go to "my home" under the UBB threads and sign in...then it will take you to a message box. Then fill in my username and then send the message. I don't know if it is working. If I get a message in my message box, I will send another message to you being more specific about the things that was not right, to say the least.

I do understand now about disturbed mind! Whew! They could be twins! You were able to articulate a word which I hadn't thought of, which was "mirror." He used my words that I used in emails, when I talked about things that I didn't like, he didn't like them either---all to please me. Yes, he was also polite and unassuming. In the beginning, he was quick to
compliment and tell me things women want to hear or what I wanted to hear.

Like yours, I had this uneasy feeling he wanted me for something, but I wasn't sure what. No, it wasn't the sex because I know he could have been with is wife.

As time passed, the charm, as I posted before, faded. There was something I knew he was not pleased about. Like yours, I found out he was "hollow." I liked the Easter bunny analogy.
This hollowness seemed apparent when things got worst between us.

Now, I know what he wanted. He planned on living his fantasy in the beginning and got more and more irritated with me being unaware of his desires until he had to just bluntly say it under the influence of much alcohol. He wanted me for his fantasy and I am not that woman, so he is moving on to his next victim---being unassuming and so charming, in his predator style, while his wife and coworkers probably think he is the nicest guy in town.

Special note: The PM system is in the process of being deactivated. Please don't use it in the meantime. If I find that it is being used after this warning I will have to deactivate your account. I have very good reasoning behind why it will not be available.

If you have any questions or comments please direct them to this thread:

http://www.psychopath-research.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=Welcome&Number=55&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&fpart=

laura, you talked about how people laughed. people used to look at me with disbelief, and i felt diminished by it, so i started to carry around with me the documents... his first divorce certificate, our marriage certificate, and the fraudulent government documents that showed he still claimed to be married to wife #1, (for financial gain). when people gave me that quizzical look, or i sensed them thinking that i had cracked, (seed of that thought disseminated all over our community by the p), I pulled the documents out of my purse and said, "look, i just sent these to my lawyer, it's pretty self explanatory". Their reactions were WELL WORTH the trouble of carrying a few extra ounces around. and the L.S.O.S. (Lying Sack of S**+) couldn't STAND IT. Anyway, I got tired of people's reactions and making light of the situation, so i started carrying the goods around and using them as appropriate. It helped. Maybe it was manipulative of me, but at the time, it felt like i was just speaking the truth. At the time, it just felt as though those documents were the only thing that gave weight and credibility to my word against his. at times, his propaganda campaign had me doubting my own sanity. keeping those hard copies close to me helped. sometimes i would just sit and read the stuff to myself, still in disbelief. but feeling better for knowing and holding the truth in my hands.
hang in there laura, your poem is wonderful and i have gained so much strength from your posts... time and life will bring the p his just desserts, and will reward you for embracing truth and for your spirit.
-Leti

Leti,

Lol!! I have a suitcase that weighs about the same as me. I keep it with me in my truck. I live in tornado alley and one night I forgot to "load" the suitcase on my way to work. Storms were brewing, so I frantically called my boyfriend and said please, please! put that suitcase in a closet and cover it with blankets. If the sirens go off, grab the cats AND the suitcase and run, run for your life! He probably thought I was a little too attached to the suitcase, but when I got home from work, a suitcase had been moved into a closet and was covered with a blanket. Trouble was, it was a suitcase full of stuff not p related. My fault for not telling him which suitcase!

So, yes, I too carry "proof." For all the reasons you mentioned. Also, because its the "proof." It is the originals of all the lies of love, criminal activity, and admissions of lying and criminal activity. I have needed it a time or two, but not very often, thank goodness. I tell anyone and everyone about him. I went to a car wash a long, long time ago and got the whole ball of wax on the truck. About $40 worth of cleaning. The lady kept saying, "do you want this service, that service?" I said sure, why not, its my ex husbands money. She asked how that was? I told her that he abandoned me, left behind a RC model airplane and I sold it. So it was "his" money. Anyway, she wanted to know every detail of what all he'd done. We talked for over 30 minutes.

I told the tellers at my Bank. Of course, that was a given, most knew he was a criminal anyway, it was their Bank I had to deal with over the hot check stuff. They are the nicest people there. They know my name, that I have a son, they tell me "you are looking like you are doing much better? Are you?" They are always asking me how I am now, how my life is, and tell me all the time how lucky I am that he is gone. How I deserved better. I only knew them as tellers when he was here. Now I know them as friends.

I even told a representative at the phone company that I couldn't pay the bill, needed arrangements because, abandoned, one income, blah, blah. She asked me all about it. When I was done telling her, I told her also that I was going to write a book about it someday. She told me to let her know, she really wanted to read about all this guy did. All I called for was to make arrangements! Then there is the cable lady. Called to "make arrangements." Turns out she had been in a very physically abusive relationship. We shared stories until she realized how long we'd been talking and had to go. She was a very kind lady, really lifted me up that day. I could go on and on.

I do not tell anyone so that they will "feel sorry" for me. I tell them because it is true. Besides, I can feel sorry enough for me on my own. I have thought sometimes why I feel so compelled to blab the story of it all to anyone and everyone. I think it is because it is shocking. Also, it is something (abandoned, abandoned, abandoned) that a lot of people do not hear about. Probably because he still has family here, he may still be here, and I want the world to know so if he is, the world will avoid him at all costs. Mainly, because I am not humiliated by what he did to me. I hold my head high. I will take responsibility for my part in the marriage, for any hurt I caused him, for any foul things I said to him. I will fess up to that, even in public, ashamed of myself as I am, because I figure God knows what I said and did, so why try to hide it from anyone else?

I do not know if my ex thinks I will shrivel up and die or hide in shame. I do not know if he thinks I will do exactly what I am doing-telling the world. I do not know if he even has the capability to think one way or the other.

There are two sides to every story. He told his to the police, his family, his employer, and his girlfriend. As all's fair in love and war, I must also tell my side.

I will share another of my poems with you I wrote about the p. While he was still with me, which is odd, because my own words were trying to tell me something:

"WHEN"

When I look at you
I see her face.
When I talk to you
I hear her voice.
When I think of you
I share those thoughts with someone else.
When I play "our song"
I feel nothing.
When our wedding vows run through my mind
I know when the end began.
When I notice you looking at me
I see the guilt in your eyes.
When you tell me you still love me
I know of no reason why you shouldn't.
When I think of the future we had planned
I see the past.
When the door closed behind you
I felt alive again.
*********************************
I treasure your comments about my posts. The posts from everyone here help me tremendously also. That is what its all about-getting better after a p, living better without a p, loving better people than a p-and we will.

Laura

Ladies & Gentlemen:
I haven't written for a while. I've gone through some changes. One of which is: I'M OVER MY P!
The latest morsel of news which confirms what a liar and a jerk he is came to me by chance last week.
He befriended the maintenance man in my old apt. building. This man and his wife introduced ole Dave (p) to their good friend. He was staying with her (after all, he's a gypsy). Ole Dave has helped to ruin her life. They had a domestic dispute. She ended up in jail for biting him and for a previous DUI that I guess she never showed up in court for and will be jailed for a month. Meanwhile, ole Dave is still living in her house and claims that she owes him $3000 for a trip to the Keys that he took her on and various sundry items like food that they both ate. He lived in her house for 2 months and didn't pay a dime in rent or utilities and yet SHE owes him money.
Needless to say, they both have drinking problems and it appears his is getting worse, too.
The maintenance man told me that if David doesn't stop calling him, he's putting a restraining order so he can't come by his house or the apt. building. He also told me that he never met anyone like Dave before...the lying, cheating, threats...etc. He says it's like he has demons inside.
Well, I'm not normally happy about others' misfortunes, but this has CURED ME! I can not tell you how relieved I feel. Like the monkey is off my back and yes, indeed, it wasn't me that screwed up the relationship.
I feel very fortunate to have escaped with just heartache. Except, in the near future, I'm doing another HIV test. God only knows where that man has been.
Good luck to you all. I'll check in once in a while.
Sincerely,
Joni

Hi all,

Haven't written in a long time. On this day of thanks I have much to be grateful for: I have custody of my daughter, the p has no visitation (it's suspended since he ignored a court ordered anger management program)and I am garnishing his wages leaving him with only pocket change! Talk about a turnaround.....So glad that God's goodness has had a hand in the war against this evil being.

Best wishes to all...

survivor

Hi survivor, boy what GREAT news. I am soooo glad you have custody of your daughter.

I hope you have enjoyed a really nice holiday.

Di

I am so glad your life is better, that he is gone, and that he does not see your daughter. That is truly something to be grateful for, Survivor. I am also glad financially you are in good shape. Many do not fare so well. Many Psychopaths continue to victimize wives, children, and others by their cons and legal maneuvers regarding child custody and finances long after the relationship is over. I am glad you finally have some peace.

Neverthesame

Survivor!

What great news!

Congratulations. . .
finished

It is almost 3 yrs since I left my p after one year of marriage and we are still not divorced! Our little girl is almost 4. Our trial is in a few weeks and I must recommend to any of you trying to protect your children to read the book, The Batterer as a Parent by Lundy Bancroft and Jay Silverman.Although this book is not directly about psychopaths, many p's are abusive (as we all know). I found this book an invaluable validation of my experiences and fears.
I plan on using my own divorce trial as a forum to possibly gain case law in my state on issues that need recognition in the legal community: 1. anger management courses are not domestic violence courses in that they do not need the batterer to recognize that his/her actions are abusive (my p was allowed to find his own anger management course after being asked to leave a court ordered batterer program because he refused to take responsibility for his actions/If the judge had no discretion he would have been ordered into another batterer program and probably would have failed to pass it. His visitation was reinstated after suspension for "successfully completing the batterer program" Malarkey. 2. Abuse against women (spouse)is correlated with abuse against children, or the potential for abuse. (my daughter's law guardian has neatly separated the two and claims that just because the p abuses me doesn't mean he is abusing his daughter. This despite the fact that the guy shook the kid as a baby, didn't pay any money to support her unless garnished/threatened with jail, and made us homeless. 3. I want to raise the bar in the courts that unless the kid is sexually or physically abused the father still gets visitation unsupervised. This negates the protection of the kid against the constant lies,mind games and manipulation these p's do. (This last point I know I will lose. Look at all the instances the father has gotten custody after he kills the mother/or after the mother alleges sexual or other abuse/or after the mother tries to tell the kid "Daddy lies, watch out (automatically parental alienation instead of protecting the child).
I have so many hoops I have to go through to do the above: I have to prove my p to be a liar, batterer, and a p! Anyone out there with any expertise in this? I feel I am fighting a battle for myself and my battered brethren.

survivor

Hi Survivor

I hope you keep up your strength and your faith as you go into court. A few years back I went to court with the same sort of ideas. But soon learnt what really goes on - in the UK anyway. First priority was not the protection of the child. Anyway I won't go back into my story which rattles on more because I am trying to bring the professionals to account - but they are all so protected by their employers and all self policing. So that I have made no progress in 3 years.

What we all need is proper awareness of the damage done again and again by Ps throughout the child care and protection network, including the courts. Which is why we are trying to get a lobby group started - but this will be a slow process. Your experience would be useful for that.

I hope you get real progress and come out of court with higher expectations than I did. I think it all hinges on one individual in the court who is both sympathetic and knowledgable as after a prelim decision is made everyone tends to fall in with that view no matter waht the evidence says. I hope you are lucky.


Please let us know how it goes.

best regards

Recovery

I am am happy for you and your title about "validation" really hit me. Unlike the rest of you on the board, my "P" is so dangerous that I am able to keep him out of my life with state parole b/c the nature of his charge was so serious he would go back for A VERY LONG TIME AND I've maded myself a familiar voice to the parole guys. But what I loved about your title about validation was that a year and a half ago I met a guy at my job and he finally after all his round-about coniving offered ME TO WORK for him.
This guy, I considered nerdy. Buy I decided to have an open mind and he paid twice as much. He seemed entirely besotted with me. Turned out he was pretty loaded too. He promised my daughter and myself the moon. He was going to guide my new career in "real estate," he gave my daughter 3 crisp one hundred dolllar bills to spend in Florida, he didn't approve of my landlord and wanted us to move into one of his apartment buildings ( I wouldn't). He would call alot just to talk. He took me out to eat. He was funny. I started to think, well maybe he's not a dork and maybe I could date him at some point. I gave him a gentle innocent hug and he froze like a pillar of salt. I recovered in a couple days thinking, yeah well. who cares.
He began to treat me SO badly in the office. He was always furious. He was always talking about how stupid and idiotic and low class everyone is (I think he'd like the human species exterminated) and he operated his business WITHOUT CONSCIENCE. I have cold details but won't bore you. No matter what I did I was wrong..even though I instituted a system that prevented the constant errors of him missing appointments that had been occurring. He was vicious and looked for reasons to be cruel and abusive. I walked out after months of this but was incapacitated by it for 10 months-did not work. I went so far as to wonder if he was possessed (he spoke of these things). And of course my friends and family thought I just had a cranky boss and was being delicate --they couldn't fathom the rage I was dealing with everyday for no reason. I thought there was something wrong with me AGAIN.
THANKS to this board I have healed that little monster memory away into oblivion. He was a P. There was a logical explanation! Thanks board...Dianne eveyone