Hi ..i was directed here from another forum and i have read lots off posts on this site 'WOW' i can relate to so many off them. I will try not to go on for too long at the momment. I guess iam looking for some support and understanding into the terrible on/off relationship that i Have been in for 5yrs with my b/f , with whom i have managed to keep away from for the past 3wks but iam scared that i will jump back into again at any moment as i have done so many times before only to always regret it.
Iam still not sure really what his problem is , at first i searched the internet for compulsive lieing and the more i read i came to realise that the lies were a throw back from some other disorder iam not sure if it is antisocial behavior disorder or something much worse.
I have read the message at the begining off the forum explaining psychopathic behaviour and nodded in agreement all the way through appart from the criminal aspect , i dont think he has ever been in jail iam surprised that he hasnt but feel there is time yet and maybe this will be his next stop.
He seems to have a very strong hold over me i suppose its because i love him and he knows this so is taking full advantage , i really was convinced that he loved/loves me but the more i read on the subject the more i understand that it has all been for his own personel gain.
I dont or did'nt consider myself to be a gulable or even stupid woman but i have to say i am dissapointed in myself and feel so badly used ,i have had a good lesson today reading everybodys posts and iam so glad to have found this web site.
At this point i dont want to go on and on about all the things he has done to me but i will list one short incident which really should have had me running for the hills.
When i first met him he told me his mother had just died (he was a neighbour off mine)i felt so sorry for him i asked him if there was anything i could do for him i invited him in to have a coffee with me.
He said the funeral was in a few days so i done the usuall thing , i bought him a symphathy card and as he was in such a bad way about the death off his mother i said i would pop in to see him when he got back from the funeral.
I went over to his flat and when i went inside he had the card (which i had given him ) on display and there was a black tie on his table he had a suit on ect and he was/seemed really upset he went on to tell me how awfull the funeral was and he had got there by his cousins car ect ect he gave me every detail voluntarily.
I was into the relationship about 8 months when i found out his mother was alive and well.
Please dont ask me why i didnt get out off it then as i dont know the answer to that Q i have asked myself it so many times and all i can say in my defence is that i knew he had recently split from his mariage and i thought it was maybe this so i thought i would give him the benefit off the doubt something i regret deeply.
This is just a small incident there are so many i think iam going mad.
Thank you in advance for any help
mags

Hi Maggie,

Welcome to the forum. I'm glad you found it because it makes all the difference to be communicating with people who have had similar experiences, who can relate, and who have gone through it. A couple of things I'd like you to think about:

How many normal people that you know would or COULD tell a lie like that about their mothers or really anyone? People tell white lies, maybe little lies, but that's a whopper and it strongly suggests a lack of conscience and sensitivity. It is also a strong example that Ps will say and do anything to be able to manipulate, and gaining sympathy any which way seems to be a common P trick. Normal people simply don't tell those kinds of lies, not that I know off and that's a huge red flag.

The other thing is, please try not to beat yourself up over not breaking up with him then. I too first tried to break up with the P I was seeing after 6 months but didn't, and ended up dating him for years. I know this is a normal reaction to have because many of us here look back on relationships we've been in and wonder the same. "What the heck was I thinking?" But hindsight always shows things in a clearer light and as NORMAL people, at the time especially, it is difficult for us to process that there are people out there who do things like that without blinking an eyelash. If Ps are ruthless, then the women they date often tend to be at the other end of the spectrum, nurturing and highly empathetic, and those are the qualities that keep us in such relationships far longer than we should be.

The feelings you're going through are typical but try to not to beat yourself up, since it's not constructive and your defences and energy levels are probably down anyway. Also, I'd suggest writing down more of the incidents that happened (whether here or elsewhere) because having those swirling around in your head isn't helpful.

I'll end now with a quote.

"If matters go badly now, they will not always be so."
Author: Horace

You take care,

Sylvie

Hi sylvia
Thanks for the reply i did try to post a rather large reply back to you but it seems to have got lost before i writ another large reply i will see if this works first
mags

Maggie,

You have my sympathy! thats hapenned to me before. Web forms are a pain in the bottom because a) the text entry box is generally small which makes working with a large ammounts of text quite difficult. b) web browsers have no 'save' function for text which is being entered - so if you put a foot wrong its easy to lose a lot of work. c) the web form for posting has no spell checker, which is a disadvantage for rubbish typists like me.

Tip: If you are composing a large post, work in your word processor program (probably Microsoft Word) until you are happy, hitting save at regular intervals, then copy and paste the entire post to the text entry box here at the forum.

Hi justaman
Thanks for info iam going to leave it tonight i would have liked to have posted more but i have been on here all day reading and iam over whelmed with what i have discovered and now realise what i have been/going through and wondering how iam going to face up to it all , iam kinda shell shocked & very hurt at the ''obvious''which has been staring me in the face for 5yrs I think its now time to take off the rose tinted glasses.
The strange thing is after reading it all iam still trying to justify everything he has done.
Iam afraid you all are going to be hearing a lot from me as iam going to need help BIG TIME.
Iam now going to switch my mobile off before i lob it at the wall
mags xx

Hi Maggie,

Yeah, posts occasionally seem to end up in never neverland. I think Justaman made a good suggestion to maybe type the longer ones in Word or something to save you the trouble of re-typing. I'll keep an eye out for your new post when you're feeling up to it.

Take care,
Sylvie

Hi Maggie, welcome to the forum. I sure agree with Sylvie, the lie about his mother is sure a whopper. From past experience with victims of Psychopaths they can draw in very smart caring people so this isn't unusual. They have an uncanny way of getting people to believe their lies even when caught.

When you are comforable it can often help to continue reading and telling your story, it can help to journal either here or alone to allow your thoughts and emotions to see things more clearly.

Di

Hi Sylvia and all

I have been really trying to come to terms with this and its not easy infact i think iam more upset , angry , distraught , gutted , and sick to the pit off my stomach than i have ever been before now , more probably because i have read lots on this web site and it has opened my eyes ( good thing in the long term iam sure ) but sure doesnt feel like it at the momment
Iam going into 4wks without seeing him i thought it was getting easier but now i have to come to terms with the fact that he possibly never had any feelings for me at all , that is really painfull i keep going over everything in my mind trying to convince myself that he did/does love me , but deep down inside i know it was all fantasy and that i have been a mug ( scotish word for idiot ).

He is still texting my mobile and i normally try to ignore it so as not to get hooked back in but last night when he text his undying love for me ect i thought i would text him back and put it to him that he might have a mental health problem eg APD or psycopathic tendencys ect & i hoped he would text back and say something like ''i know'' or ''i will go get help'' i waited patiently with hope but no just dead silence and he didnt text me back he is obviously ignoring this , my thought on this silence is he must know it , or else why not defend himself against my aligation ?

He probably has his next victum lined up , there has been a few occasions when i thought somebody else might be in the picture i have no proof of this but something deep inside me tells me this could be so.

I had no sleep last night all sorts off strange nightmares when i got up this morning and put the radio on there was an elvis song playing , very approprite ( suspicious minds )caught in a trap and i cant get out because i love you too much baby , why cant you see oh oh oh what your doing to me , when i cant believe a word you say , lol i wonder if elvis knew a P

I know he is in financial trouble with rent again i wish he would sink back to the gutter where he had been before he met me but i have a funny feeling that somebody somewhere will pick up the pieces ( poor woman )he has no job AGAIN and he is still in his rented flat so somebody is bailing him out.
Thanks
mags xx

Hi Maggie,

Everything you’re going through right now (and I know it’s a lot) is completely normal. I think anytime we are trying to exit a long relationship it’s difficult anyway, but when you throw the fact that he may be a P into the mix, that makes it all the worse. I read your post and was thinking back to what it was like at the time that I was deciding to break off my relationship. It was wrenching and I feel for you. What makes it particularly difficult is that there are usually good times too. Ps come across normal some of the time, in fact they can be very charming, and that’s what makes it so difficult to grasp that what we are dealing with is a shell of a person.

I know it’s tempting to try and get him to acknowledge that he has some disorder – I did that too. But as I said elsewhere, trying to get a P to be accountable or show some feelings about it, is like trying to nail jello to a wall – it ain’t gonna happen! You’ll probably hurt yourself more in the process.

The thing is, if you had known the signs to watch out for, you probably would have gotten out earlier or not become involved at all. But like many of us you didn’t. It seems that you know now and I hope you listen to your gut and think about what you want for yourself long term. Anyway you cut it, P are losers and judging from your post, you already know that.

I sense that you probably have a feisty personality and I’ve no doubt that you will get through this.

Take care,

Sylvie

P.S. I read your post about you calling the paramedics on him – that was hilarious – I had a good laugh about it. The P I went out with used to do that too – say that he couldn’t live without me. Problem for him was it stopped working, I really didn’t give a flip anymore!!

Hi Sylvie

Thanks for your reply , from your post i realise that you managed to make the break ? If so that is good well done.

It is strange is'nt it if they had been normal blokes and we didnt want the relationship anymore it would just be over , i have ended relationships before and none were so dragged out as this.

I think i was grassping at straws when i put it to him that he may have a mental health problem , i was secretly hoping that he would realise this and go for help and we would all live happily ever after , i have to stop living in hope it is because iam such a possative , optamistic person that this has went on so long , & also that i love him.

Yes iam fiesty and i think this is why there has been a lot off arguements and confrontations , i have told him in the past to find somebody else who would be more accepting to his behaviour you would think he would have done this by now as he must realise that iam not going to accept it.( maybe he has) or maybe he knows he would find it hard to get another woman to put up with him , but he is'nt going to let me go either ....strange.

Sylvie do you mind me asking how long you were in the relationship and how long have you been out off it ?

I just cant get over the fact that i have put up with this for 5yrs iam really not a silly woman (or didnt think i was anyway) iam now wondering if it is truly love that i feel or is it his manipulation ?? if he didnt love me he must have been very good at pretending , iam sure he does , i know he would do anything for me and he is always reminding me off this fact to which my reply is '' yes i know except tell the truth'' which surely is the most important asspect off any relationship and the foundations for it.

I have always kept my independance i have a nice house where as he has been in so many rented propertys , at one point i thought i would invite him to stay with us as maybe he needed some stability/love ect as he had told me in the past he had a terrible childhood and i did think this guy just needs to be loved , i know lol

On many occasions when he was being evicted for non payment off rent and i have helped him to get another property he had even casted up to me '' its ok for you , you have everything you want'' as if it was my fault because iam a responsable person and get my priorities right with bills ect , he hates the fact that i wont make commitment.

I dont even think he realises the hurt iam feeling as all he can think about is himself he texts me saying ''please please talk to me i miss you so much i cannot live without you '' & why are you doing this to me ect, does he really think that it is me who is doing this to him ? doesnt he realise that it is him who has done this to me or is it a case off he does know what he has done and is trying to manipulate me into making me feel bad about ignoring him ? strange !!!!! does he think iam having a picnic ?.

Thanks for listning to me moaning sylvie the weekend has been a struggle but i find that the week is better to get through as i have more to keep me ocupied and hopefully soon the pain will go away.
mags xx

Hi Maggie,

All your feelings are quite normal. Yes, there is a lot of emotional pain associated with it all. For me, it took about six months to get over that part. I spent only 22 months with my P. I was hurt, humiliated, angry, agonized over the whys and wherefores for those six months.

During those six months I did try to get involved with lots of things, work, other activities with friends, family, etc. It did help. Now, I view it as a "learning experience" and on the positive side, I have a better understanding of how to "spot" a psychopath and believe the other positive is that I am now a stronger person because of it all and am able to empathize with others who have similar experiences and can assist others thru my understanding.

The "fastest" way to get thru all this is NO CONTACT. And this is VERY difficult. But experience bears out that (if the P is busy in his/her attempts to lure you back) eventually he/she will usually give up when they get NO RESPONSE. That means even the smallest hint of ANY emotion whatsoever. You may pity him, but do it from afar. My P who seemed to understand I was stronger than most only made one weak attempt via e-mail 4 months after my walking away from him. My response was 2 lines. I was not ugly to him (again, NO EMOTION). I answered his e-mail with all coolness which did not invite any further contact whatsoever. I did not show anger, pity, sorrow, etc. I've not heard or seen him since that time and it has been 19 months since that e-mail.

P's are exceptional at reading body language and emotions. If you can make yourself devoid of emotion (not easy, but you can do it) when dealing with them, there is nothing for them to latch onto and worm their way in. This is your best advantage in defeating their purpose. Psychologists have recommend this approach to me. Remember you are the one with the emotions, their's are virtually non existent.

Hang in there. It will get better!

MCN

Hi MCN
Thanks for reply and your support i wish i had got it earlier though because today i went into a full scale battle via text messaging with him and i feel i let myself down , i know that no contact is the way to go but i carry my mobile around with me and keep looking for a text from him , iam so messed up i want him to dissapear off the face off the earth , i mean if he died it would be easier than this because this is just pure torture ,

How can i love somebody and know that they are useless ? he obviously knows that i have feelings for him ,
I guess iam trying to follow my head but my heart tells me differant.

I was doing just dandy untill today , i will be ok tommorow he even had the cheek to say to me '' what are you all about'' Grrrrrr

mags

Hey Mags,

Sorry I was a little late, but if you've paid attention to the other posts here they advise the same thing I just posted. Nope, I can't let you put YOUR responsiblity on someone else and YEP, you did let yourself down. Get up, brush yourself off and get to it. REALITY CHECK HERE.

One mistake you are making is seeking the "easy" way out. There is none. Sorry.

You, by your own admission, are "looking" for a text message from him. HELLO. That is your own ego "seeking" a sign from him. FORGET IT. The only emotions P's have are on a 6-8 year old level which translates to they only love themselves and it is ALWAYS about them; their wants and needs. YOUR wants and needs are NEVER given consideration. P's are incapable of "loving" you in any mature sense. A herion addict loves herion because he needs it. Better to need someone because you love them. The P is incapable of returning your love, you are thowing away your love, thus your life. The P recognizes your "feelings" for him and he is "mirroring" those feelings right now in order to get back his control over you. And if he is successful, you are back into the same routine all over again, and thus YOU prolong your own agony.

Chances are that this particular P will disappear from the face of the earth or dying are virtually nil. You have a better chance of being struck by lightening.

The only EASY way out is NO CONTACT, PERIOD. Otherwise, just hang a sign on yourself that says, "Please torture me".

Listen to your head, your instincts, your gut. It is telling you, for the good of yourself, to get away from this person. Your heart is wrong in this instance, trust me, I've been there.

I am sounding harsh and unfeeling, but I am speaking to you from experience. I am being honest with you and not "sugar coating" anything. I think you can do this, you just have to gather up your resolve and every ounce of strength you have. Get ready for the long haul. You will get there.

MCN

Hi MCN
Thanks lol just what i needed to get me back to reality , i know you are right ''hell'' i know iam right i will do this i know i will , i have to its true what you say iam prolonging the agony torturing myself.

Thanks
mags

Hey Mags,

I'm in your corner. Get to it woman!! I wanna hear from you when "you've crossed the bridge".
You go gurl! Cheering from here!!

MCN

HI MCN & all

Havent crossed the bridge yet but still working on it he has asked to come up to my house to pick up some stuff but i said no way , he only came up with that one because i had previously told him it was over so i think he thought (lol got to be a step ahead of him )he would punish me by saying ''i want my stuff'' either that or he knows that if i agree to let him come collect his stuff that he would be in a better position to use his manipulation tactics.

His text messages go from please talk to me sweetheart , i love you so much ect ect then when he realises he is not getting anywhere he starts telling me stuff like ''you are not perfect'' ''you have never loved me'' & more nasty stuff , which i cant help responding to as i get so angry at his claims and accusations.
I know i should not reply to the text messages and iam sure i will stop replying but at the momment i cant ignore them.
He wont ring my landline he seems to hide behind his mobile so that is good .

In the past when he done the texting scenario i always responded to them and eventually went back but i had'nt realised before i read this forum that he might have mental health problems so i do feel stronger this time round and armed with more knowledge than before.

A few days ago when i realised that he may have mental health problems i did feel a bit guilty and i thought i would bring it to his attention (just incase he didnt realise) but he just ignored it never even regognised that i suggested he might need help.

I think this is particularly strange as he is trying every trick in the book to get me back and you would have thought that he might have even said ''i know i have and i will go and get help'' i thought he might have even just said he would go and get help even just to trick me into going back to help him but no he hasnt even agknowlaged that i have suggested mental health , I guess this is proof that he doesnt really consider my feelings or love me like he says he does , so its beyond me why he wants me back if he doesnt love me ????

I do feel better today and i have just bought myself a bike so i intend doing a lot off cycling i think this will help me , i need stuff to fill my time and my head ,i dont work full time i do a few hours work and also some voluntary work , i only have my daughter as family and she is a great kid (13yrs old) she says i can do better than him and i know she is right , he is always asking about her and saying he misses us both which is making me sick as he has three kids off his own whom he doesnt see whether its because his ex wife wont let him see them (thats what he told me) but i think he cant be bothered with them he is to selfish , i feel sorry for them , i also think he is jealous off my relationship with my daughter & i think he is annoyed because i always put her first.

I dont know if anybody else on the forum has noticed this and i dont even know if it is a P trate but with my P i have noticed that he finds it very difficult to call me by my name ? choosing to address me with other words such as sweetheart , honey , babe ect just thought i would throw that in , if he cant address somebody with those words eg a male or a child he just doesnt call them anything he just sort off makes sure he is in front off the person before he speaks to them as he never uses anybodys name to comunicate , say he was in the kitchen and wanted to call on me if i was in another room he would call sweetheart but if he was wanting to call on my daughter or a friend off mine he would always go into the room they were presant in as he cannot call on them by there name.
I have been with this guy for 5yrs and can count on my one hand how many times he has used my name , just something that occured to me.
mags xx

Hello Maggie

Prolonging the torture, eh? Too bad for you.
____________________________________________________________
*which i cant help responding to as i get so angry at his claims and accusations.I know i should not reply to the text messages and iam sure i will stop replying but at the momment i cant ignore them.*
_______________________________________________________
Doesn’t matter how angry you get. NO CONTACT means NO CONTACT. He won that time. He pushed all the right buttons and got you to reply. He knows exactly how to get a response from you. “Stick and stones may break my bones, but names can never hurt me”. Again, I think you can ignore him.
___________________________________________________________
*A few days ago when i realised that he may have mental health problems i did feel a bit guilty and i thought i would bring it to his attention (just incase he didnt realise) but he just ignored it never even regognised that i suggested he might need help.* ____________________________________________________________
Go back to Psychopath 101. Psychopath’s don’t think they have a problem. Further, there is no help for a psychopath. No medicine, no therapy, no technology. The only way they will stop is when they stop breathing.

_________________________________________________________
* he doesnt really consider my feelings or love me like he says he does , so its beyond me why he wants me back if he doesnt love me ????* ____________________________________________________________

Wow, you got the first part right. He doesn’t love you, he doesn’t love anyone but himself. Secondly, a psychopath will lie in order to get whatever it is he wants at the moment. He is NEVER going to consider your feelings. The only time he takes any notice of your feelings is so he can manipulate your feelings and then he can use you. In his mind, you’re nothing more than a big SUCKER! He wants you back so he can use you some more. Why do you use question marks here? HE DOES NOT LOVE YOU. HE LOVES HIMSELF. THERE IS NO ROOM FOR HIM TO LOVE YOU.
____________________________________________________________
* i only have my daughter as family and she is a great kid (13yrs old) she says i can do better than him and i know she is right………. i think he is jealous off my relationship with my daughter & i think he is annoyed because i always put her first. *
____________________________________________________________
You should listen to your 13 year old daughter. SHE loves you. Of course the Psychopath would be jealous of her for the exact reason you state, in the psychopath’s mind ONLY he should be the focus of your attention at all times. Remember, HE LOVES HIMSELF ONLY.
________________________________________________________

* i have been with this guy for 5yrs and can count on my one hand how many times he has used my name , just something that occured to me. *
____________________________________________________________

LOL. Wake up, Maggie. The guy is probably seeing 10 other women besides you. He probably has a difficult time remembering the name of the person he is with at the moment. Gee, if he doesn’t use a name, he won’t cause himself a problem. By the way, he doesn’t love any of the other 10 women either. They probably get the same treatment you get.

Stop looking back and get yourself lickity-split over the bridge. Think about your daughter!! Think about yourself.

MCN

In reply to:

---

he has asked to come up to my house to pick up some stuff but i said no way , he only came up with that one because i had previously told him it was over so i think he thought (lol got to be a step ahead of him )he would punish me by saying ''i want my stuff'' either that or he knows that if i agree to let him come collect his stuff that he would be in a better position to use his manipulation tactics.

---

Maggie,

This issue of 'his stuff' has to be worked out. I think you need to think this one through quite carefully, decide on a course of action which is best for you (not him!) and then *absolutely* stick to it.

I'm assuming that you *really* do want to disconnect from this guy. In which case the best thing for you would be for him to take away all his stuff from your place as soon as possible.

There is both a psychological and practical reason for doing this. The main reasons are a) it re-enforces for you the reality of your separation and removes reminders of him from your immediate environment. Hopefully this will help with any tendency to obsess. b) it removes from him a pretext for connecting to you. He wont have the excuse of wanting to 'pick up some stuff' in order to have contact with you / see you in person / pick an argument / attempt manipulation.

What I think you should do:

obtain cardboard boxes and strong plastic bin bags. Box and bag up all his stuff. Put it by your front door, (if you have the space! My hall is so narrow that would be a problem!)

Phone him. Tell him that he needs to choose a date and time sometime in the next two weeks to collect his stuff. Tell him that if he does not come at the appointed time you are going to put his stuff out on the street.

If he refuses to pick a date tell him that on such and such a date in two weeks time you are going to put it out on the street anyway.

Do *not* get into a discussion or negotiation as it will turn into a shouting match. Do not respond to anything he says. Do not answer any of his questions. Just tell him what is *going* to happen then put the phone down.

You cant negotiate with a p. Thats an absolute and general rule. All you can do is give a p options, ultimatums, deadlines and boundaries. There is no point in trying to talk to it as if it was a reasonable adult. If you treat it as an insane 3 year old you wont go far wrong. The reason for this is that Ps are psychologically incapable of seeing the advantage of a negotiated win-win situation where both parties benefit equally. Their brains just don't work that way. In every situation the P has to end up seeing itself as the winner, as being the dominant party who is calling the shots, as being 'on top of things' - or at the very least, the one who is 'making stuff happen', even if 'stuff' is just creating chaos and forcing you to pay attention to it...

Arrange for a friend, preferably male, to be at your place when the P comes to collect his stuff, or on the deadline day if he has refused to set a collection date. If you have a choice chose the biggest bloke you know. Get your friend to open the door to the P and make sure that he/she knows that the P is not to be allowed in to see you or talk to you.

If the P doesn't turn up within an hour of the appointed time, as is quite likely, put its stuff out on the street.

Then phone it and say: "You didnt turn up to collect your stuff like you said you would, p. You didnt ring me to say you couldnt make it. Your stuff is out on the street." then immediately put the phone down. If it phones or texts you back as it undoubtedly will, DO NOT answer. Delete texts without reading them. If possible see if your friend can stay with you for the rest of the day, as the p will probably come charging round to your place in a foul mood. If not make sure you have your mobile charged up and in your pocket! If the P starts banging on your door, immediately call the police. When youve got through to the police let them hear the P ranting, and be umm...slightly dramatic. You dont need to lie or anything , just make sure they come round quickly. I'm assuming the P does not have keys to get in. If it does the first thing you should do immediately is change your locks.

At this point a big reason for future hassle has been removed, and you have made it very clear what your attitude is - you dont want to be connected to him and you have taken control of both the situation and your own life.

good luck

stay in touch

JAM

Hi MCN
I do appreciate your help but in my defence for being weak as i was & iam and cant help that , the reason i decided to put it to him that he may have mental health problems was in the hope that he may realise this as iam caring person and i do love the guy & maybe just maybe thought there may be hope for him i wished i didnt love him but i do and that is why iam here on this forum to try and get some idea off what i may be dealing with , to read and understand what his problem might ''actually'' be , and once i have established that i will need to act accordingly , if it was going to be easy i wouldnt need help.

I have been with him on/off for five years and felt that i had to ask him if he was aware off his problem call it love for him or human nature to want to help somebody you love , you know just give them the benefit off the doubt , that is in my nature to do that.

Please please do not under estamate my inteligence iam already feeling stupid enough iam well aware that he may have other woman on the scene but i have no proof off this at all, i do have suspicions about everything he does because off his lies and iam well aware that he could lie about infidelity as he has lied about so many other things.

The reason i was asking the Q about the way he addresses people was simply to try and see if this was a problem anybody else might have encountered as he also calls my daughter by the name off sweetheart ect i just meant that he doesnt use peoples names and wondered if any body else had encountered this.

Iam under no illusion that he may have other woman but i must say that i live in a very small town and when we are seeing eachother he is very attentive and we walk about everywhere together , i also have lots off friends who work in the town, also i dont think he would have the time for other relationships or the confidance ,

However iam not denying that he ''might'' have iam well aware off his insecurities ect and have always reminded myself that this could be so , iam a 43yr old woman i dont burry my head in the sand i realise he has major issues in reg to his mental health and if he was diagnosed with something in particular then maybe i would know what i was dealing with.

Iam still trying to establish what his problem is as he definatly has one and to be fair i really would like to know for a fact if he is a psycopath hence the reason i would like him to go for help.

Maybe iam a sucker who knows but i think iam going about this in the right way reading and educating myself , keeping away from him , giving him the oppertunity and the benefit off the doubt to see if he can get help , if it all fails then at least i will know that i done everything i could do in my power for the person i love.

I am not making excuses for him i know some people may think this , but to be fair i was in hospital last year for major surgery and the hospital was 15 miles away from home , he came everyday on a bus and stayed with me all day.
This is the reason iam so confused about it all, i know he would run to the end off the earth for me

This is one off the reasons , (there are many) why i think i should find out if he can be helped as he has been there for me many times and i would just hate to think that he may need help and i done nothing.

I just dont know , iam confused but i dont need to wake up and smell the coffee i have already done that & that is what brought me here

Just a Man

Thanks , yes i will do that i will get him to collect his stuff and make sure somebody is here with me , he hasnt been violant but will probably be annoyed and i would rather not see him face to face.
mags

Hi Maggie, I can sense that you are in so much pain. Everyone has their own time frame for doing what needs to be done in any kind of relationship. It must be a very confusing time for you.

I have been thinking if I have ever heard the "sweetheart" situation and really don't have an answer. Maybe some of the other victims have had this experience.

Looking for answers and questioning things is a very positive thing and shows a great deal of strength on your part.

Have you ever considered writing down the "bad" things that he has done to upset you? Sometimes that can give us a clue for any patterns or any posibility of change in the person we are with. Good people tend to focus more on the good times and sometimes that can overshadow the bad things another person has done to us.

Dr. Hare has an interesting article:

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One good reason for studying biological anomalies in psychopathic offenders is that psychotherapeutic approaches rarely are successful in treating these criminals. In fact, Robert Hare, an expert on psychopathic behavior, argues that current sociological and psychological interventions may be worse than useless.

In a recent presentation to the American Neuropsychiatric Association, Hare noted that treatment seems to increase, rather than decrease, the rate of recidivism among criminal psychopaths. Among the research he cited:

One study of criminals released from a program for personality-disordered offenders compared 176 who received intensive group and individual therapy with 146 who were not treated. The rate of violent offending decreased in non-psychopaths receiving t treatment, but increased among treated psychopaths when compared with psychopaths who received no treatment.

Another study of more than 300 offenders receiving social skills training and anger management therapy found that one-year reconviction rates were significantly higher in treated than in non-treated psychopaths.

A third study found that the sex offenders most likely to re-offend were those with strong psychopathic tendencies who were rated as "good risks" by psychological personnel because of their insight into their problems. In other words, Hare said, recid divism occurred most often in psychopaths "who had the ability to convince the therapists they had made good progress in treatment."

Hare speculates that psychotherapy simply helps a psychopath learn more about how other people think, and thus "improves his ability to con."

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source

We all have our own pace for what we do, I wish you the best and applaud your sincere efforts to find the right answers to your many questions.

Di

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Iam still trying to establish what his problem is as he definatly has one and to be fair i really would like to know for a fact if he is a psycopath hence the reason i would like him to go for help.

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Catch 22, Mags. If he is, he won't.

Don't get too hung up on the labels. Exactly what is the correct psychiatric label for him ultimately isnt all that imprtant. You know him. You *know* whats wrong with him because you've been living with it for 5 years. From a practical point of view the deep whys and wherefores of his condition and the correct word from the psychiatrists list isnt going to help you all that much. If you really feel a nead to understand you'll have to research the subject and make your own mind up. Diagnosis by forum is neither possible or desirable.

The only question you need to be able to answer is - can I be happy with this person longterm?

If the answer is no, then you hit the real problem - how to leave somebody who you love but know is no good for you.

You've come to the right place for help with that.

Hi Di / jam

Thanks for the info di i will probably purchase that book you are right iam in great pain and just dont know what to think anymore it is a horrible place to be , asking myself does he love me doesnt he love me should i try and help him or just keep walking.
And jam you are right also how do you walk from somebody you love when you know you have to as he will prob never be any good for me , i cant believe anything he says iam caught between a rock and a hard place
Thanks all for your support i find this web site so valuable and even although i dont know what the answer is yet iam sure i have had my eyes opened reading all the posts

Thanks
mags xx

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...i cant believe anything he says...

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If you cannot believe anything he says there is nothing you can do to help him.

If he is a P he will not want your help to help himself 'change' anyway. He will see your help as something to be taken, twisted and used against you, to control you. Any change you see will be aped, an act, just a means to an end, to get what he wants from you. And the apparent change won't last long.

Turn your mind away from the P and towards yourself. Focus on what *you* want from life, not on your relationship with the p. Fill your time allowing him no space in your life. It will be a struggle, you will backslide and there will be times when you will feel bad. Emotionally disconnecting from somebody with a personality disorder is very much two steps forward one step back. It never seems to be easy or simple. You have to accept that and not give up. One small step at a time. Then try to hang on like grim death to any progress!!

Hi maggie

I empathise with you as mine is like yours in putting on a great act of being a caring person. He would have been to the hospital too every day, especially when it was a public place so that others would see his caring act. At home the act was still there and the concerned 'Can I get you anything' and he would help with the kids. This is what kept me thinking he really cared for so long and why I have had trouble detaching and seeing him as he really is. This kind of person is much more damaging IMO.

I now know that all of the 'help' etc was for two purposes. One was to cajole me into having more sex with him. He could use it as a means to make me feel guilty or duty bound. This is abusive. My sex drive went down because I was with an abuser and our intuition says we do not want to have babies to abusers. The pressure over this was constant. Yet he ignored my feelings over it and refused to think that he could have anything to do with my lack of libido. He admits he brought me flowers so that I might have more sex. Even later when I realised I had been sexually abused as a child, and told him about it, he did not stop the pressure. The other was to make me dependent on him and make me stay in the relationship. He has got his sons dependent too.

He also acted the caring one to make me feel that all of our problems were my fault. At the same time he was driving wedges between me and my children. When I did really need him, or when I asked him to consider my feelings or respect my wishes or needs, he really showed himself as he refused to do so but excused himself with 'I just can't cope with this situation' and playing the mental ill health card.

I drove myself mad at one time wondering if he was a p as he did not seem so bad as others mentioned here. I thought that if he was not a p, and I desperately wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt, then maybe he could be helped. I have realised that he is much more dangerous than someone who is overt in their abuse. He went behind my back and played tricks instead and messed my mind up severely so that I can still slip into thinking that I have imagined it. Writing things down helps as does keeping a journal. Reading books definately helps and I am reading 'Why does he do that? Inside the minds of angry and controlling men' by Lundy Bancroft has been a great help. Mine would always use mental ill health to excuse everything he did. But an abuser is someone who has an attitude problem not an emotional problem, or damage from their childhood etc.

The more you educate yourself the better and get yourself into a local support group for abused women. Living apart is the first step to get your head sorted out, even if you continue to see him. Sorry but I cannot remember whether you have already done this.

You must put aside your feelings for him and ask yourself if he is good for you or not. A controller and manipulater is never good. VERY few abusers change.

Mati

Hi mati all
I have managed not to reply to his texts now for a whole day but iam just sitting here as misreable as sin and hurting really bad inside everything going through my head and the worst off all to face up to is the fact that he may not have even cared about me at all , i just cant swallow that one , i know from what i have read that its most probably true.
I wish i had some real evidance off something that he had done really bad then maybe i would be able to walk away easier.
I know that thiefs , drunks , physical abuse ect are not at all funny but to tell you the truth if he had been any off those things , things that are visable to the human eye i really do think i would have gotton over & out off this sooner.

I remember my mum always saying to us when we were younger liers were worse than thiefs as you can catch a thief but not a lier

Just my thoughts for the day
mags xx

Hi Mags,

You asked me how long I was in my relationship. Certainly as long as you were, actually probably longer. I say "probably" because we broke up a couple of times for a few months and then got back together. The first time I heard he was in an accident and so I called him and we ended up getting back together. The second time was just because he was so very persistent (Ps usually are since they are bent on getting control back) and I guess for my part, I must have relented. That time though he was very resentful that I had left him so there was a lot more tension. The good thing is it drove the point home that this was not someone I wanted to spend the rest of my life with. I've been out of that relationship for a long time, at least for as long as we went out.

So believe me, I can relate to what you are going through. In fact, there are so many similarities between what you mention and what I encountered with that P. Really the only differences that stands out, are that this guy was financially responsible from what I could tell and also, he definitely had anger management issues.

It is VERY difficult to reconcile being in love with someone and at the same time coming to terms with the fact that they may be seriously damaged individuals who may never be good for you. Actually, they may be very bad.

I was wondering what sort of support network you have. I am asking this because Ps usually try to isolate you from loved ones so that they can control and manipulate more effectively. I remember realizing that every time we had an argument I would get upset but eventually turn back to him for support. It was a vicious cycle and I'm wondering if that's what you are doing as well. As others, have suggested try to busy yourself with other activities and people you can depend on. It's not easy - we are creatures of habit - and I think that's partly the problem, that we tend to go back to what is familiar.

I too feel that you have to do things at your own time - we all have different personalities and circumstances and that needs to be taken into account. What I am hoping for you is that you can get to a place mentally and emotionally where you realize that you deserve more than you're getting and you decide to cut your losses. Really, once you make that decision, the sooner you get out the better.

Please don't feel that you're moaning - your word - we are here to listen and help. Everyone here is pulling for you.

Take care of yourself,

Sylvie

"I have managed not to reply to his texts now for a whole day"

*Applause*

"but iam just sitting here as misreable as sin and hurting really bad inside everything going through my head"

If you end up going round in circles like that all the time, you can do something about it. Its called 'thought stopping' . Quite deliberate and entirely practical techniques you can learn to stop obsession. Google "Thought Stopping" or talk to a therapist. The other thing you can do is have some activity set up and ready to go that you jump into if the 'thinking' gets too much.

"he worst off all to face up to is the fact that he may not have even cared about me at all , i just cant swallow that one , i know from what i have read that its most probably true."

You dont have to swallow it all at once. One small nibble at a time, and don't try to force it down too quickly, or you'll make yourself sick.

"I wish i had some real evidance off something that he had done really bad"

"When i first met him he told me his mother had just died" - he deliberately lied to you when you first met in order to get your sympathy. How bad does it have to get Mags? And as lies go that one is pretty horrible. What does that tell you about how he feels about his mother, that he would use her in a lie like that? Thats worse than 'really bad' in my book. You cant live with a pathological liar. It's just a recipe for endless misery.

Stick with it. It does get easier as time goes by.

JAM

Hi Sylvie

Gosh iam like a stocker to this forum i just leave the pc on to see if somebody will leave a message lol also when i feel a weakness or an urge to respond to his texts i read the posts and it jolts me back to reality.

Glad to here from you i was wondering if you were ok and also ( selfishly off me ) i think you will be a valuable help to me as i have read some off your posts and we seem to have been victims to the same horrible experiance similiar hurt ect.hope you dont mind

I have no support network i have friends but iam not going to moan to them about this as i have done so on so many occasions and if i were them i would be fed up listning to me as i have always went back with him in the past

My parents have both past away & some off my friends actually like him they say he is so kind ect , iam not even going to bring it to there attention that i think he is a P as up untill 2wks ago i thought that Ps were murderers ect like ian huntly , Iam more open minded than most off my friends they would just laugh and say dont be stupid , not that they would mean to be nasty but i could see where they would be comming from i mean i can hardly believe it so how could i convince them ? & i have read so much on the internet some off my friends dont even have access to the internet they might think i was exagirating.

I think the only way for me to deal with this is with people who have experianced it.
I suppose when i look back i have fallen out with a few friends and it was probably due to deffending him , a few off my friends never liked him but i always justifyed his behaviour and said he had problems because off his up bringing so i have lost a few friends.

I think i know what will happen next , he has done similiar before . i think he is going to tell lies about me this is a scary thought as i value my reputation i think he might do this as he now knows that iam thinking he has a mental health issue and i get the vibes that he is not happy that i have exposed him to himself i brought it to his attention that i think he needs help as he has a problem and he says the only problem he has got is being in love with me. i can see how that would be a problem to him if he does feel love because iam not playing the game anymore so it is a BIG problem to him. little does he know that iam breaking my heart and i wont let him know that.

Can i ask you sylvie how long have you been out off the relationship with the p and how do you feel now ?
Iam pretty scared off relationships as i now think i wouldnt know what a normal one is , and can you ever trust again ? i think i would be asking Q all the time and cant really see me trusting anybody again.

Thanks
mags xx

JAM
You gave me a laugh thanks '' one small nibble at a time dont try to force it all down at once it will make you sick'' yeh that about sums it up how i feel lol.

About the mother story yes i know it was bad to get my sympathy and know it was bad for him to feel like that about his mother but WOW you should see her she is scary to the max !!!! when i asked him why he said she was dead his reply was that he hated her and he wished she was dead , as she had went away and left him as a child and ''apparently'' according to him she spent all the house keeping on booze.
So i suppose i can understand why he hated her but what i should have seen at the time was the act he put on i mean he could have just said he hated her and wished she was dead if that was how he felt but yes you are right he was looking for sympathy votes for himself.

Thanks
mags xx

Hi Mags,

I forgot to log out as I often do, and happened to see your post so I thought I would respond to you right away.

Thanks for your concern - I tend to have more time to post on the weekend and I remember you said that weekends are more difficult which is understandable. I also just read JAM's suggestions to you. Those are excellent practical suggestions and I urge you to try them out. I think it's those kinds of things that make all the difference in terms of helping you get through. I too used to obsess - just trying to figure things out and get answers. The big difference though is that I didn't have anything like this forum at the time. What I did have was a new job and a new career that I loved so that felt like a victory. I worked long hours and travelled a fair amount so that kept me out of trouble. Still though, as I said, I did backslide and get back with him for a few months anyway. I don't want that for you though because you've got people telling you that it probably isn't in your best interest even though ultimately it will have to be your decision, something you come to terms with.

I know what you're saying about friends - same thing here. You feel like you are imposing. Frankly, some of my best friends who I am now in touch with again still don't know that he was a P. I'm not sure they could even accept it. It seems very dramatic to people who have never encountered it.

I too wondered whether he ever loved me. There are times when I still scratch my head about that one - but not too often anymore because I simply don't care. I had to come to the conclusion that in his own twisted way he did, but really, so what. The fact is he was a problem, he had issues, he was a lost cause. I know it may sound cruel to you given where you're at but it is the harsh reality of it.

I did a double take when I read what you said about concerns for your reputation because I was going to ask whether you think he might do that. My reputation was completely trashed and it made it very difficult because I belong to a commmunity where everyone got to hear it. I too valued my reputation and had a perfect one up to that point. The good news is that not everyone bought it. In fact some of it backfired because there were people who felt that he was a lowlife to even be engaging in that kind of behaviour. As for those who believed it, well, I'm not sure I have time for them anyway.

I have been out of that relationship for over 6 years. I have no warm feelings towards that guy whatsoever - I haven't for the longest time. Actually, I've felt it's the smartest decision I've ever made and I will always be grateful for it. It was so freeing that I remember feeling like I could fly at one point - lol. I still definitely have residual issues with trust etc. I think that's partly because I have encountered Ps on other fronts and obviously that's unsettling. But it's also taught me that somehow, someway, most of us find ways to get through these situations and move forward.

I've no doubt that you can too - you have to be true to yourself Maggie.

Regards,
Sylvie

Hi Mags, I have been reading your story and I could totally relate to sooo much of it! I just read where you said he hated his mom - and that she spent most of the household $ on booze. My P's mom (and dad) were both alcoholic and I truly believe that is part of the P's problem... they never felt protected and loved as children. It's actually VERY sad, and whenever I think about it I have to feel sorry for him, but not enough to ruin MY life!! They truly have learned no coping, loving, trust or maturing skills-- they are like little babies who need nuturing, but if everything doesn't go EXACTLY their way - they lash out and are ABUSIVE. It's WAY too chaotic for the average person to have to deal with. The woman my "P" is living with sounds like she can handle it - it must be a pay off for having a good looking "chore boy" around the house to run errands for her (and she makes believe he is her "man" I suppose). Some people really do love living in chaos. I did myself at times - I found it exciting! (the crazy part of me)... but for the MOST part I want a quiet, peaceful life - and I wasn't going to have that had I stayed in the life of my P!!! Nobody could! Anyway, I wish you luck and success in "detaching"...

Hi, I guess the alcohol problem with parents falls under the nature vs nurture discussion about Psychopaths. Personally many people are raised by booze hounds and don't turn out to be P's. But, I truly believe in the nature side of the equation when it comes to Psychopaths.

My best guess is Psychopaths are born and those that possibly are raised in lousy environments probably make up the 30% of the prison population. Those with a "better" background probably just steal hearts and rob wallets.

Besides, unless the parents are alive and/or a person meets them who on earth could believe how a Psychopath describes their childhood?

Di

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Besides, unless the parents are alive and/or a person meets them who on earth could believe how a Psychopath describes their childhood?

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Nobody. This does seem to be one of the things Ps reglarly tell lies about to engender sympathy. The P I know about told my friend a lot about his 'tough childhood' and 'abuse' during the early stages of their relationship.

Years later she talked to the Ps (non-psychopathic) brother, who put a different spin on the situation and flatly contradicted some of what the P had said.

Ps are pathological liars. Just going by a Ps account, you have no way of knowing what is the truth, what has been spun to the Ps best interest, what has been exagerated or embelished, and what is just downright lies. Likelyhood is there is a bit of everything in what you have been told. The best way to bolster a lie which cannot be verified is to tack on a bit of truth which can..

Tiasa
Thanks for your post , apparently they were alcoholics accordan to the P but who knows if that was true but i do think he was brought up in a disfunctional family as i met his mum once ( once was enough )
When i first met him he told me allsorts i was so shocked at his upbringing and later i guess i made excuses for him and his behaviour thinking it was because off his childhood that he acted this way , Maybe some off it was fabricated to get more pity ect but you are right it is sad and i did feel sorry for him but like you said we cant burden ourselves with it and anyway some people who have had bad childhoods can turn it all around and change the vicious circle.

He has kids and he has done nothing for them so i guess they might also have problems in adult hood but he is to busy & selfish worrying about himself to even notice his kids.

I once told him he should try his best with his kids as it was a shame and he should know what its like to be neglected in childhood but it made no differance to him.

I also want a peacefull life and like you realise that it is'nt going to happen they never grow up and we do.
Have you been apart from him for long ? good luck to his new woman she will need it lol
Thanks for your good wishes
mags xx

Hi Diana

Yes thats right how can we believe anything they say if you read the post i done about when he told me his mother was dead and she wasnt dead at all makes you wonder what they are capable off telling.
He told me he had to make his own dinner at age 6 because his mum and dad were in a public house (bar) getting drunk he told me his dad used to drag him out off bed in the middle off the night and beat him up.

If his parents were that bad then they must have had some nasty genes already in them then they give birth and pass on double nasty genes LOL who knows

Iam doing better diana
thanks for all your support
mags xx

Hi Justaman
Maybe he told me his mother was dead so that i wouldnt have to meet her where she might have filled me in with details which wouldnt have corresponded with the ones he gave me.

Well met her once anyway and that was a scary experiance i never really wanted to see her again lol
She definatly did'nt seem to be the full shilling

By the way
You are not just a man...you are a great help and a wonderfull man
mags xx

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By the way
You are not just a man...you are a great help and a wonderfull man

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Well... I'm glad my posts have been helpful.

As for "wonderfull man" - how do you know that? You haven't got a lot to go on. Just a few posts online dealing with the subject of psychopathy, which I've had personal reasons to be intensely interested in for the last 10 months.

I know I'm not wonderful, and can give you a million and one reasons why not. What do you know?

Think about it. It could be part of how you ended up with a P problem...filling in the gaps on the basis of no evidence in order to see what you want to see. This is undoubtedly exactly the mode of thought the P tries to encourage in its victims.


JAM

justaman

ooops sorry to compliment you on your valued oppinions i wont do it again.

I dont fill in gaps on the basis off no evidence in order to see what i want to see , with the P i saw what he presented to me , i couldnt see through him

just because iam a trustworthy person doesnt give somebody the right to take advantage off me , granted i will be more vigilant in the future but iam certainly not going to change my personality to fit more in with the scum off sociaty.

Just by complimenting somebody surely iam not encorouging them to take advantage.
I only said you were wonderfull as you spend time giving people good advice sorry if i have offended you.
mags

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ooops sorry to compliment you on your valued oppinions i wont do it again.

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Hey! I enjoy flattery as much as the next person. Just so long as Mr. Logic keeps sitting on my shoulder and stops it going to my head ;-)

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I only said you were wonderfull as you spend time giving people good advice sorry if i have offended you.
mags

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Offended!!?? Not at all. Why should I be? You'll have to try a lot harder to offend me. Compared to some forums I frequent this place is a den of pussy cats, and I'm sure Dianne intends to keep it that way

;-)

No, not offended. "Wonderful' just prompted me to make a point about how we perceive other people... most people start out trying to see the best in others rather than trying to see the worst. We tend to approach others with the attitude of 'innocent until proven guilty'. This is I think the 'normal' as oposed to the paranoid or psychopathic attitude.

Sometimes this tendency goes so far as to become delusional - we build an image of the other persons personality which has little basis in reality. "Getting to know" somebody turns into "inventing" the person we want them to be.

Ps seem to know this stuff instinctively. They encourage and exploit it.

...which reminds me of something I heard on the radio recently:

When You and I are alone in a room, there are really 6 people in the room - The person I think I am, the person you think I am, and the person I really am - and the same applies to you.

JAM

Hi Maggie, I haven't seen him in over 2 weeks (I saw him 5/26 - the last time I talked to him was 5/27 (telephone). Since then I refuse to answer the phone when I know it's him. He hasn't left any more messages on my cell (since then) because I told him I'm not the only one retrieving messages on it now (little white lie). He called 5/31 but I didn't answer the phone (caller ID at work). I'm keeping my fingers crossed that he has found someone else to con (though I feel bad for her!) He still lives with a 55 year old woman (I'm 47 - he's 43)- it's her house - he contributes NOTHING... who (according to him) is "300 pounds"- (but her money is GREEN!!) haha. He insulted her all the time to me (but told me he would NEVER insult ME!) ha! and my reply was "You should be grateful to her for supporting you all those years!" He said "I do SO MUCH FOR HER it isn't funny." I asked him "What?" and he said "I cook, clean, walk dogs, drive her places, etc..." - while she works overtime to pay all the bills (Aren't those just the everyday things we all do?) He doesn't work (hasn't for over 5 years) and has NOTHING to call his own (except his looks and charm) WHOOPPIE! Thank GOD he never had children (I swear he wanted ME to have his "LOVE CHILD" someday after we got MARRIED! (YIKES) ... I am so GRATEFUL that NEVER will happen! Can you imagine? Then my life WOULD be a living HELL! Anyway, I'm sorry for your P's children, but I think they're better off if he stays away- hopefully they will have better role models in their lives someday. Life can be so painful - yet also very wonderful. We have to be very grateful to have "seen the light". We will SURVIVE and THRIVE and become better and stronger women for having dealt with this experience. Keep in touch!

Tiasa
Hiya....The woman he lives with are they lovers ? or does he just stay there like a lodger ? I was going to comment on the fact that he does chores for her but i dont know if they are together ''together''

Anyway he lives there too and even if he was contributing to the bills ect i would still expect him to do the share off the chores.
You asked me in another post about my contact with P , i havent seen him in 6wks ( my choice ) he is not a happy bunny LOL he has been texting me none stop since 6wks ago and i was getting really angry and replying to them as he was saying stuff that infuriated me so much , stuff like '' you have never loved me'' blah blah the usuall you would expect from a P but i have managed NC for two days now , it is extreamly heart wrenching but it has to be done at some point.

My P always got jobs he just never stayed in them for long enough and there was also something strange about the way he left them or got kicked out off them

He was evicted out off his flat at christmas for non payment off rent and i helped him get a private rented place ( not financialy i didnt ) but hey he was annoyed at me i think he expected me to move him in to my house ....NO WAY.

I have a house and on a few occasions when he had been in financial trouble or getting evicted he would say '' its ok for you at least you have a nice place '' LOL am i supposed to feel guilty because iam responsable and get my prioritys right.

I think iam probably more fortunate that a lot of people who have suffered at the hands off a P as i never made any real commitment , there was times when i did consider it then his mask would slip and i would say to myself thank god i didnt move him in imagine the mess i would be in now Gosh it doesnt bear thinking about does it ?

He was such a leach that every spare momment he had he thought he should be with me but i like my own space aswell and if i didnt want his company he would say to me ''i have been working all week'' and i thought SO WHAT you dont pay my bills so i dont owe you anything , he also hated it that iam an independant woman i think that caused a lot off trouble , maybe i had no choice but to be independant as i knew he was unreliable anyway.

In the end i think i just realised ( even although i had feelings for him) that this was going knowhere and i had to let my head rule my heart.
It is hard when you have spent 5yrs off your life with somebody and know that you have to walk away , but the ironic thing is HE actually thinks that HE is the wounded party LOL.

Actually he told so many lies that i started thinking what the hell is the point in even having the simple things in life with this guy like a CONVERSATION when it just went over the top off my head as everything he said i would be thinking is that true or what a load off c**p.

And an attention seeker to the max , example...my daughter was rushed to hospital last yr with ruptured appendix and he offered to bring me some clothes ect to hospital which was quite a distance from my home , once he got there he just stayed with us , i had to ask him to leave as he was complaining all the time that he wasnt getting enough sleep , he was using the shower ect i think he thought he was on holiday, my daughter had a major opperation and needed a fan on her bedside as she had a high temperature he switched it off because IT WAS ANNOYING HIM !!!!!!

Anyway i sent him packing and LOL the best is still to come hold your breath.

When i finnaly got home with my daughter he text me and told me he had takin an overdose so i sent the paramedics to his house LOL he hadnt taking it at all and i knew he hadnt it was a case off i was spending all my attention on my daughter and he was jealous or something.
Makes me sick that does , he must have knew that i was out of my mind with worry over my daughter and then he does that trick JUST FOR ATTENTION.

mags xx

Hi Mags, I have 9 million things I'm supposed to be doing right now (laundry, cleaning, etc...) BUT! I just read your post and I HAD to respond! I LOVED what you told me (about calling the paramedics!) That was PRICELESS! He must have been LIVID! (teeheehee!) You are SO RIGHT -- it sounds like he is Narcassistic too - which is VERY common with P's. (MIne was too... big time!) I can't BELIEVE he did that because you were spending too much time and attention on your own daughter! (Actually YES I DO believe it for a P!!!) My P was incredibly jealous of my kids, sisters, coworkers, friends, ANYONE who I paid any attention to! You are sooooo lucky you didn't let him move in with you. YIKES! That would be a DISASTER. To answer your question at the beginning of your post - if you had asked me while I was still seeing him (and before I realized who and what he is!) I would have told you they are just "House mates" (he said "Room Mates", but I asked him if they sleep together and he went BALISTIC with DENIAL and said he would NEVER sleep with a "water buffalo, disgusting COW like her". (NICE guy, huh?).... Imagine if she ever heard him call her that? He'd be out on his ass quicker than flies on cowshit! ;-) Anyway, WHO KNOWS what the "relationship" was with them?! He told me it was platonic, but I couldn't call him when she was home, I couldn't go there, I couldn't leave a message on the machine (which had HER voice saying "We aren't home right now, but leave us a message!" I questioned him about it and he said "Oh, yes, she has this fantasy that we are a couple... I feel sorry for her. She's crazy!" Ummmm... no, it's you P-boy! Anyway, I better sign off for now, but I will be back! This is so comforting to know I have you and others that understand! KEEP THE NO CONTACT RULE! Things WILL get better! ((((hugs))))

Tiasa
Did you read the other post i left you a link on one off those posts which you started i think it was the one where you are asking to post P traits.
Anyway i left you a link on there.
I would most deffinatly think that she ( the woman he is living with) is most deff his lover and the poor woman is'nt as smart as us yet
get your laundry done lol
mags xx

Hey Mags,

I responded to your post from last weekend I think it was. If you saw it, good. If you didn't, just pointing it out.

Sounds like you're sticking to your guns. Good for you! Not only will it be helpful in this situtation right here, right now, I think it's something you will always be able to look back on with satisfaction.

Bye for now,
Sylvie

Hi Sylvie
Sorry about that i never saw the last post when i have done this i will go take a look.
I was sticking to my guns but unfortuatly today i responded to one off hi text messages and got into a state.

He text me saying he loved me so much and was at the counciler yesterday and that he was going tommorow again ,

i asked him what time are you going ( i know i shouldnt have responded but i thought HOPE ) silly me he text back saying '' what do you care'' obviously hadnt been as he wasnt willing to give me the time off his next appointment and then turned it all around on me by implying that i didnt care.

I have had a bad day but iam just back from the shops where i purchased a new mobile so that will be it iam going to have to let go now.
And as soon as i have set up my new phone iam going to cut up the other sim card.phew it just gets worse
Still i have managed to stay out off his way
Strange thing is if its true that they feel no empathy love ect then why does he keep begging me to go back and then when i show an interest in his so called appointment all hell breaks loose.
Sorry sylvie i havent even asked how things are with you iam so angry at the momment He just stirs me up and then lets me down.
mags xx

In reply to:

---

I have had a bad day but iam just back from the shops where i purchased a new mobile so that will be it iam going to have to let go now.
And as soon as i have set up my new phone iam going to cut up the other sim card.

---

Something you have to do first! Ring or txt all friends, familly acquaintances, professional and work contacts, and give them your new number- *everybody* who has your currentl number. Tell everybody that they must under *no* circumstances (not even a life or death emergency!) give the P your new number. You'll have to be very firm about - emphasise that this is important to you - or he will con it out of somebody.

He probably will get hold of it eventually,somehow, but this will send him a message.

Ideally you ought just to refuse to answer when he calls and delete text messages without reading them.

JAM

It is charging as we speak ,
I have had to get the new phone as today i was really ok untill he text.will you read how it went and tell me what you think ?


Him..hope you are ok M you are always in my heart i love you so much and i have been to see a counciler and iam going back tommorow again.

Me...What Heart ? iam not interested ( i know i shouldnt have responded and that would have been a better way to show no interest but i thought maybe he is LOL )

Him..Why do you have to be like that

Me...Beacause you are a lier

Him..No iam not i go to the one at the back off index above the pizza shop

Me...Ok what time is your appointment at

Him..Like you said you are not interested

i ignore that last one because i felt that it was attensuion seeking then

Him..its at 6.30 after work

at this point iam thinking he has told me the time so maybe he is tellin the truth

Me...Ok i will come with you if you like (I had no intention off going)

Him..u r not allowed its not for couples

Thats how easy it is to drag me in , so desperate measures (new phone) i feel really stupid and angry with my self but somebody on another board has said to me that its just more validation that he is a lier.
mags xx

Hi Mags,

No apology necessary - just wanted to make sure you saw it in case you read anything that you could relate to or found helpful.

I read your post where you mentioned that he's going for counselling. Just a word about that. The P I knew was required to go for counselling by the police after an incident at his house with his parents and sister (didn't involve me). He said the counsellor asked me to join him in the sessions since we too were having problems.

I have always felt that I would have gotten out much sooner were it not for us going for counselling. Clearly, I made a choice to stay, but the point is it just allowed things to get dragged out. It gave me false hope.

I know you haven't said that you're going with him (in fact quite the contrary) but I just wanted to mention that. It did not help him a whit, even the counsellor seemed frustrated.

Hang in there,

Sylvie
xx

P.S. Don't feel like you have to respond within any particular time - I know it can all be a little overwhelming but you will do fine I'm sure.

Hi Maggie,
Good for you for getting a new phone. If he gets your new number and tries to contact you, don't respond. If you want this person out of your life, the key is not to respond.

In one of your posts you said:
"Strange thing is if its true that they feel no empathy love ect then why does he keep begging me to go back and then when i show an interest in his so called appointment all hell breaks loose."

Begging the former partner to come back is a part of the game for them. One -- he's testing your boundaries. Two -- he hasn't found a replacement yet. If he got defensive when you asked about his session, it could be that he is lying about it. Why would he get defensive if he has nothing to hide?

Panamint

In reply to:

---

will you read how it went and tell me what you think?

---

Same as before Maggie. At this stage what he has to say is of no interest. All that is of interest is that you are responding to him.

If you seriously wish to disconnect from this guy, who you think has P characteristics, then total NO CONTACT is the way to go.

You are not replying when he rings. Somehow or other you have to stop reading his text messages.

The more you respond to them the more you are encouraging him to persist in trying to contact you and engage you emotionally.

He wants your attention, and you are still giving him it.

Good luck with the new phone. Hope he doesnt find the new number too quickly!

JAM

Hi Maggie,

I think an important question to ask yourself is what do you expect from a partner?

One of the things I found helpful was making a list of the things that were important to me in a relationship. At the top of my list was feeling psychologically safe. I didn't feel safe with my ex-boyfriend and I knew I never would in that relationship. It can be very difficult to pull away but when you get away, you're opening the door for healthy relationships.

Panamint

Hi Everybody
Di,panamint,sylv,jam ect

Just a short note to say iam ok and still reading lots off info , i have had the flue then pc crashed
I think P has given up at last and since i changed my mobile my head has been a lot clearer

I do hope you all are well ?

I do go through little spells of upset but i feel more posative now , and now that he has been out off my face for a while it has given me time to reflect on the last 5yrs and iam gradually facing up to it all , something i seemed unable to do whilst still seeing him.
Strange isnt it that we become blinded by them and cant see the woods for the trees.
Things are filtering through now , things that he had done which he managed to wangle himself out off but now my head must be clearer because i am thinking about things he done and i seemed to (at the time)just let him manipulate me and fool me .

Thank you all for your help i will be popping in and out off the forum
mags xx

Hey Mags,

Glad to see your post! I had noticed that you hadn't posted for a while and was hoping that you have been doing alright. And from the sounds of it, it seems that you're doing well - really starting to put things in perspective and see things about him more clearly. Even better if he has backed off - that's great!

I'm sure there are times that you will feel upset - it was a long relationship and that's completely natural. At least now though, you are going through the process of putting it behind you and you can start to feel like your own person again.

Best Regards,
Sylvie

Hi Everybody
Sorry i have not been posting for a while i have been reading , reading , reading
It has been 10wks now i have managed to keep away from him i did have a little slip a few wks ago for which i felt really stupid for but i have just put that down to the PROCESS , strange but after that little incedent (i text him) i feel much better because once again he proved to me what a complete idiot he really is.
I stupidly text him saying call me , he didnt but the next day he text me saying he had been on holiday for a week and he had a great time & that he wished i had been there with him but you are so stubborn LOL LOL.
He also told me via text he has a car at his door and he is sitting his driving test next wk and then going on holiday again at the end of july PMSL what an absolute sad sad man that he has to try and impress me with more lies when infact (and i didnt tell him that i know this) he has takin out another bank loan to pay his backdated rent LOL i cant stop laughing hope you all laugh with me.
Oh i cant wait till he gets kicked out off his flat for non payment off rent which is iminent HA iam soooo over him now i can see him exactly for what he is , the rose coulered glasses have came off its takin a while but i see the light.
My daughter is away on holiday with her dad and iam going to be so pleased when she knows i havent seen him and she will be happy i havent let myself or her down.
I havent had a good night out for so long but tomorow night iam going out with some girl friends iam a bit apprehensive about it as its possible i could see him with new supply Gosh i dont know how i will feel any advice would be gratefully accepted.

Di i hope your finger is better
Sylvie how are you ?
Paniment i read two off your posts and i think you have had the same problems as me in reg: to the so called friends iam going to post a reply to you on your thread.
mags xx

Hi Again
Just had to share this with you all LOL in addition to what i just posted today

My suspicions have just been confirmed ohhh its so so funny and naughty off me i know , but heh isnt it good , i have his bank details which he gave me , details where u can ring the automated bank service to find out balance off your account ect & he is so thick he initialy gave me the details so i could ring up his account to find out for him if his pay had went into his bank account he couldnt ring himself because his phone had been disconected (yes you guessed for non payment off phone bill)

On ringing the automated account i discovered that he couldnt have went on holiday because he had a pay going in and he wouldnt have got paid if he had been on holiday !!!
also discovered that he had takin out a bank loan (which i had already guessed) and also that his account is overdrawan by £600 Ha Ha bleedin Ha sorry di wanted to swear but stopped myself.
Now a while ago this would have made me angry but now i just think it is so funny

Isnt it strange how we always want confirmation off what we already know anyway ? must be the good person in us that we just cannot comprehend anybody actually being like them.

Hi Mags,

You're sounding well - good for you! Nothing like taking a step back from these characters to see them clearly, warts and all. Bet you're daughter will be proud of her mom.

About going out, just get dolled up and walk in like you don't have a care in the world. I went to a dance after I broke up with P. Many of his relatives were there and they were actually quite cordial to me, in fact, some were outright friendly as were other people who knew both of us. While some people listen to the mindless pap that the Ps spew (and of course that's bothersome), there are still others who brush it off.

Think the worthwhile people will give you a lot of credit for just keeping your chin up and going out there.

A guy friend once said to me he would be more worried if people WEREN'T talking about him than if they were. I thought that was hilarious. Wasn't sure I completely agreed, but I liked the attitude behind it.

This past week and the coming one have been stressful but once I get through them I can probably take a breather.

Have fun tomorrow!

Sylvie

Sylvie
Thanks for your reply iam afraid i havent bee keeping up with the posts , that is very selfish off me.
You wrote at the bottom that you are having a stressfull time & i have looked for your posts but cant find them.
are you ok ? gosh i hope so as you are always there for me i would like to be there for you if you need me
luv mags xx

Hey Mags,

I'm still here and just saw your post. I haven't really said much about it lately, only because it's a situation that has dragged on and on for a long time. Had a boss who by all accounts was a P, and he and the other executives pretty much stiffed their shareholders (causing losses of about a couple of hundred million) and broke a slew of securities laws in the process. Since I worked in a finance related profession at that firm, I was caught up in the middle and it totally threw my career off track. So I'm still struggling with that and ticked off about it because I love my work and was thought to have a good career ahead of me (and also because those guys got away with it).

As soon as I'm back on track, I'm taking a trip, hopefully someplace with sand, surf, and plenty of mojitos. Can't wait!

Thanks for asking.

Cheers for now,
Sylvie

sylv
mojitos ??? LOL

Hi everybody
Well if you read my above post which tells you all that he text me saying he has a new car at his door , and he is going on holiday again ect ect , which i thought was lies to impress me .....apparently its not lies he has new supply and the car is his new womans (or old womans) who knows how long that has been going on for

He doesnt know that i know this and iam not about to tell him either.
I met my cousin today and she told me she has seen him with somebody else , and also somebody told me that they saw him and her getting out off that particular car outside his flat and they both went into his flat.

Wonder what his new supply would think if she knew he was texting me telling me that HE has a new car !!!!! and how much he loves me , misses me and cant live without me !!!

I dont feel as bad as i thought i would feel , i dont know .i feel strange it is probably better that i found out before i bumped into them at least i can now prepare myself , make sure iam knock out before i go into the town.

What an a*s h**e
so because off this i have been to the docs today to get myself checked out , i have never in my life had to do this and just about puked up in the surgery but when i went into my docs office and told her what i was there for she said it is'nt your fauld and not to worry she is phoning me personnaly on friday morning with my results.
mags xx

Hi Mags,

He is being true to form. The fact that he's with someone else is probably more proof that you're fortunate to have gotten out of that situation. There's no getting around it, they're lowlifes in every way.

Best of luck with your medical checkup.

Sylvie

Hi Sylvie

Thanks , yes you are right they are low lifes .

I just dont get it , why text me tell me he loves me ect and that he has a new car blah blah blah , i mean if he has a NS why doesnt he just get on with it ?
Can somebody tell me the answer to that because i cant seem to get my head round it.

Has he takin her as second best because he cant have me ?
or has he been forced to take her because i can see through him ?

He hasnt given up trying to impress me with lies so is that because he is trying to see if iam going to be an idiot ?

I truly wonder now ( and dont worry anybody iam not going to do this) what would he do if i went back with him , i mean he doesnt know that i know he has new supply which begs the Q has he done this before ? had new supply then when i have went back with him he has gotton rid of NS ? ..............the mind boggles ,
mags xx

Suddenly just dawned on me i have been a huge MUG even although i dumped him why do i feel like its me that has been dumped ? even although he is desperate for me to go back to him I still feel as if its he who dumped me

PS
Would have been nice to get the last laugh but it looks like (to him) that he is the winner
I suppose its better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all

I was always under the impresion that the dumper (me) shouldnt be hurt as much as the person dumped (him) but i suppose that would only apply if the person dumped ie HIM had any feelings in the first place and instead off a heart he has a swinging brick there instead.
mags xx

In reply to:

---

Suddenly just dawned on me i have been a huge MUG even although i dumped him why do i feel like its me that has been dumped ? even although he is desperate for me to go back to him I still feel as if its he who dumped me

---

No idea. Maybe you're just perverse. Come to think of it you are Scottish and that pretty much ammounts to the same thing

;-)


'Sassenach'

Hi Maggie,

My feeling is persons with narcissistic traits are dependent on others for a unified sense of selfhood. In terms of relationships, it doesn't matter who they are with as long as they are with SOMEONE. I think you pose a challenge to him because you left. Perhaps he can't imagine any woman leaving and not wanting to come back.

I'm just guessing but here are a few reasons why he might be contacting you.
1. Continued Abuse: He wants to undermine your recovery.
2. Ensuring narcissistic supply: he wants to make sure there is back-up supply in the event the new relationship doesn't work.
3. Valuation/Devaluation: He is contacting you (idealizing you) because he is in the process of devaluing the new girlfriend.

Panamint

You're feeling hurt because you have the ability to bond with others. He can't truly bond with anyone. How unfulfilling is that?

You're the winner in the long run,
Panamint

LOL at JAM................where have you been hiding ?

mags x scotish and proud by the way

Panamint

Thanks...i realise iam the winner now its just a shame he doesnt realise that he is the loser , also how will he ever know that he is un fulfilled if he doesnt have emotional feelings he obviously thinks fullfilment is getting away with lies , cheating , manipulation ect

I suppose he will never know , that is why he will have a C**P life i suppose then he will wonder why lol and blame everybody else
I feel sorry for his NS already iam thinking poor her and god only knows what sad little tails he has told her so that he can gain her sympathy , most probably how bad i have treated him , actually i know he is in debt so he will probably tell her i spent all his money HA

Iam laughing but in reality that scares me that some woman out there is going around thinking that iam a [censored] and she will be sucked in just like i was with his storys to me about his ex wife when i first met him , saying that though i did keep an open mind i always say there are two sides to every story i hope she thinks like that.
mags..( hoping my reputation stays intact but doubtfull )

In reply to:

---

LOL at JAM................where have you been hiding ?

---

Life goes on... and when the days are long I'm more inclined to be out and about than sat in front of a computer. I'm a barbie addict during the summer..

Sometimes I just dont feel like posting... and if somebody else has made the point I dont feel the need just to repeat whats already been said...like some posters on some boards do...

I seem to be getting towards the end of the road.. I dont feel the need to obsessively investigate the subject any more. After 11 months on the web and 4 books read I feel that I know enough. My friend is over the worst of it now. Shes got a long way to go, but I think is now in no danger of emotional collapse. I'm also less worried about possible viplence from the P. I feel I 'know' him better now, and in the current situation he has no motivation for violence. He has every motivation to maintain his act of 'hard done by loving dad' for the benefit of his new woman...

Jam
Iam glad your friend is ok i knew you were helping her and i did want to ask if all was well but did'nt feel it was appropriate for me to ask you.

Glad she is over the worst & hope you enjoy the summer with your barbi Q's

I also intend to enjoy the summer i dont frequent the forums as much as i did in the begining , you are so right life goes on i have learned a lot these last few months.

take care
mags x

Hey Mags,

My take is that he probably assumed you were in the bag because you had gone out for a while (I know mine did for sure)and now that you told him to pretty much go fly a kite, he's probably less than thrilled about losing control of you. "My" P used to liken us to Sylvester and Tweety because he said I was always trying to get away. Phew! LOL

I agree with Panamint, you're the winner.

Syl
xx

P.S. About Mojitos , it's a Cuban cocktail, similar to a mint julep. Love them!