Thanks for responding, quite frankly I don't even know what narcissist is, sigh. Green I am. Now if you want to know about Global Warming I could talk for hours. Isn't it funny how topics come up in your life. She fit all 20 symptoms of being a psychopath, and upon thinking about the past the puzzle seemed to come together, for years I have wondered why she behaves the way she does and now I know. But now the challenge begins, right, once you know the problem and if you have a conscience you have to try to fix it right? My biggest barrier is that she is 26 and will only tell me what she wants me to know which is very little. Now she mad at me because I have cought on to the connection between her meds and cannibis. I told her if I found out that the mixture was not good she would not be allowed to smoke it in our house and that made her angry. She has a stare sometimes that reminds me of Scarlett O'Hara. She says she MOVING OUT but has no where to go and no money to do iy with, o boy, lots of research to do, really glad to have found this form and thanks once again for responding

Hi Treefrog
I also wanted to say welcome. I am not able to get to my computer as much as before but have been following your story. I ditto Ricks wise suggestions. I am also glad you are here. . .you will find it a haven of encouragement and support.
finished :-)

Hi finished, thats funny, have felt that way so much after the last few months. But yaknow whenever I figure that I have done nothing right as a Mom to this girl because she has such a talent to put it in my face no matter how distorted, but not in my mind, but guess what happens. Treefrog is my handle for my environmental/community activism, I get involved, to say the least. I am informed that I have been awarded a really presigious award for community involvement and I think to myself. Later, Thank you

Hi treefog,
just wanted to say welcome to the forum. This is a great place to find support and learn about the p.
betterway

Hi Treefrog, welcome to the forum. I believe that Psychopaths are going to turn out the way they do no matter how much a mother tries. It is the old nature vs. nurture theory and I believe it is a evil twist of nature.

>>It is the old nature vs. nurture<<

Very interesting! I hadn't heard that before but how true.

Thanks for that.
finished

Hi all, well days have gone by and haven't learned much. Something is not right here. If I as her mother who has taken this girl back home, I think I should be allowed to talk to her new doctor, wouldn't you think? But no, breach of confidentiality, of privacy. I don't get it.
Things aren't going well. I feel like I am enabling her outlandish behavior. We have a large family and live on one income. It was a few days before pay day and I was short of money, she got a government check, I asked her for half of it she said sure and then went out to the bar, stayed out all night and roped in another victim who brought her home in the morning. She hasn't paid a penny to be here and I have given her what little I had on occassion. Always under the assumption that she would pay it back. Will I ever learn? This time is it however, told her I was going to give her another red cent. She told me I hated her, always have. She takes this medication and smokes a lot of cannibus, she said she has told the doctor but because she lies so much I don't know for sure. She says she is moving to Chicago at months end because she hates it here, I asked her are you going to hitch hike? no response. I dunno.

Hi Treefrog

>>Something is not right here. If I as her mother who has taken this girl back home, I think I should be allowed to talk to her new doctor, wouldn't you think? But no, breach of confidentiality, of privacy. I don't get it.<<

If she is over eighteen they (the doctors) will not tell you anything.

>>I feel like I am enabling her outlandish behavior<<

It sounds like you are coming into an awareness that she is using and abusing you. That's the first step. . .awareness.

>> Will I ever learn? <<

One of the most awesome things I learned in one of my new groups that I am attending (DVIS) is this. Taking abuse is a learned behavior (others train us) BUT it can be UNLEARNED. For me it takes awareness, practice and support. After decades of receiving this kind of treatment (and some from offspring also)I CAN CHANGE IF I CHOOSE TO. I have noticed that my son does not like it but I DO!! And I'm feeling a WHOLE lot less like a victim and martyr.


>>She says she is moving to Chicago at months end because she hates it here, I asked her are you going to hitch hike? no response.<<

If she's of age. . .it might be a blessing (for you). It has been my experience. . .they come back when busted, broke and beat up by the world. My two youngest sons are alcholic/addicts. Enabling is something I have been doing for a very long time in the name of "trying to be a good parent".
My thoughts are with you treefrog. It is not easy when it is a child (no matter how old they are). I also see P behavior in them as well (scary).
finished
>>

Thanks so much finished, how can I get hooked up to DVIS.
I think you are so right, awareness must lead to understanding which should lead to some kind of solution, if it could only be that easy. When I told her she was cut off the money supply she knew exactly what to say, she knew what buttons to push, I am accepting an award at city hall in a few weeks and she said I'll go tell them what an abusive awfull mother that you are and I said ok, go do it with little emotion on the outside but raving on the inside, she is capable of doing it and would, or maybe she wouldn't. A VICTIM, ya man, I know I must be stronger than she, just trying to maintain the balance, I have four sons as well, God give me strength. And ya, she's home only because she has burnt all her bridges, boy oh boy. They say that a lot of people with the P illness live in halfway homes and the like, but funding is being cut, here in Ontario anyway, time to put on some advocate shoes perhaps.

Treefrog

DVIS is Domestice Violence Intervention Services. I called information to get the number.

Betrayed was the one who encouraged me to go and I am forever grateful to her for that. I lost my nerve when I got there for my first appointment and she gently nudged me to go back. That she had had the same experience. I am so glad I did because I am learning WHAT abuse is.

As I shared on some other posts I have been involved with P's and N's all my life. I had developed a very high tolerance for abuse and didn't recognize it as such. Not the physical abuse of course, that's obvious, but the more covert and insidious forms. Emotional, verbal, sexual and the phychological(spelling?) kind.

Several posters also recommended a book called the "Verbally Abusive Relationship". Reading that was a turning point for me. I now see abuse when it's happening pretty clearly and understand the reasons behind it.

The fellowship and group support I receive (and also give) is very healing. It (DVIS)is a 24 week group and after you have completed 24 weeks you move into another group. They are totally dedicated to educating women and helping them get out of abusive situations. They also understand that everyone is at different levels of growth. Some are not emotionally able to leave their abusers. It is a process and as I said it was so liberating for me to hear that tolerating abuse is a learned behavior and can be unlearned if I am willing to do the work. Old habits are hard to break especially for a caretaker like me. I'm growing and getting stronger though. One day at a time.

Betrayed really is the one that encouraged the group thing. I also got into some groups offered by the YWCA. We have a wondeerful womens center here and they offer all kinds of different groups for women in crisis or going through life changes etc.

I just got into another one Saturday for "Taking Steps on Moving On". I know it sounds lke overkill but I was in such a bad way I was willing to seek and receive help where ever possible. As far as payment, they base it on your income and if you can't afford it, you don't have to pay until you are able.

AlAnon and Open AA have helped as well. I had to treat my relationship (if you can call it that) with P#2 like an addiction. That's helped tremendously. I was as hooked on him as much as any junkie on their drug of choice.

I've come to realize I have been very "sick". Good news is I feel like I am making progress and I'm on the road to recovery. I know for myself I will have to work on "me", "my stuff" for the rest of my life. I'll never "graduate" if you know what I mean.

This forum has been my sanctuary. It truly was my saving grace from God. I never knew what I had been dealing with and it provided a jumping off place for me to begin to learn and seek answers. As I read the posts I saw to many similarities to ignore.

I owe so much to so many. My forum friends (some who no longer post) were "there for me" in the beginning. I came on here hysterical and they (Kris especially) patiently drew me out and kept responding to my posts (thank you forever Kris if you still read here). Then Betrayed also started encouraging and validating my experience. I was beginning to think I was the crazy one. My therapist (God Bless her forever as well) told me after I told her my story what happened, that I had great instincts. . .if I had not has this validation from here (the forum) plus hers, I don't know where I would be today. No exageration.

Stay with it Treefrog. You are worth the investment of your own time and energy to learn as much as you can as fast as you can. There are wonderful success stories here.

You and us (fellow forumer's) can be one of them!! :-)

One more thing Treefrog, help and support is out there, it just takes a little effort to find it. Keep seeking. I wish you well.
finished