I've read all the post and what a revelation. Our son is 40 and has lived as a parasite on his sisters and his parents - US, since the age of 18. People only exist for him to use. He has never been arrested but has totally worn us all out with his using girls, bankrupting out and stealing our identy when it suits him. His grandparents thought we were being mean to him when we began to slowly "get wise" and they thought that HE was the victim. He got control of them when they were very elderly and their estate. He embezzeled the estate and bragged that they couldn't die fast enough for him. We are now deathly afraid of him because he is so outstandingly presentable and turns the tables to make himself seem as if he is wronged. He is very interested in our estate and is terribly angry that we have attempted to salvage what is left of our lives and get away from him. We know that if frustrated in what he wants, which is control, he might do anything? Is there anyone else who is frightened of their own son? Jen

Hi Jen, welcome to the forum. Your situation sounds horrible. Did anyone ever press charges against your son for his theft of your identity and his grandparents? I don't have a son but if I were you I would make sure I had an iron clad will. I would even go so far as to have a second attorney consult on what the first attorney did.

You mentioned that your son went "wrong" at 18. What was he like as a child prior to that?

I think you have every good reason to be frightened of him, he sounds like he will stop at nothing. Do you see him very often and/or live in the same town as him? I assume your parents have passed? Did he inherit what was left?

It sounds like you are in a very painful situation, there can't be pain worse than for a parent to realize there is something wrong with a child. If your son is a Psychopath there isn't any way he can or will change. Psychopaths are experts at playing the victim while at the same time victimizing others.

When he was a child did he tend to lie, cheat, steal or bully any "friends". How was he around pets?

I am sure this must have been a long process for you to come to the point that you are in such fear. I am truly sorry for your situation.


Di

From: Jen

Thanks for your email. His crimes are all confidence crimes. He preys on family members that will give place him in a position of trust. He embezzeled part of the his grandparents estate from a cousin. The cousin is a lonely old man and our son has worked on him and the cousin is his biggest champion and is very angry at us for cutting the son off. The cousin knows that he has been stolen from but he is old and tired and says, "What can one do". This son is "very good" and knows his victims well. Before he was 18 he was proud of his aggressive "telling people off", couldn't keep a teenage job and dropped out of high school because the "teachers and kids don't like me". They didn't like him because he was a predator toward girls. Of course he got a girl pregnant and he married at 19. They didn't stay married and he has been a poor father. Actually encouraging his son to do the same things he has done. The son is not as bright as the father so can't get in as much trouble. He has always lied. We didn't notice stealing. The lies, cheating, stealing and having to be in control are all sneaky and on a rather high and clever level. They love him on the job "for a while" then he is usually forced to leave or leaves because he is unpopular with the other workers or has tried to steal the bosses wife. But he covers his tracks and to tell the truth we are the outsiders in our own family after a lifetime of helping him settle down. So much time and money spent on him it would be hard to count.
Jen

Note: When a user requests to receive notification of a reply to a post the email that is sent isn't clear to let people know to not answer but go to the forum. And, I am not computer savvy enough to correct;) I always respond to the author to make sure it is something they meant to post or wanted private.

Hi Jen,

It must be very sad to have to be alienated from the rest of your family. Does your daughter still have contact with your son? I hope you have had some time to read in the "Resource Section". If your son is a Psychopath there is nothing you could have done differently as a parent that would have changed the situation. Personally I believe in the nature side of this issue and I think that is one of the more accepted theories about P's.

Cutting yourself off from him must be very difficult as a parent but frankly it is really your only choice. Does he live in the same town?

I have a couple of questions if you are comfortable answering. There is some very interesting research becoming available about "fledgling psychopaths". What was your son like as a baby? I have read that in reflection parents have determined that the child did the rejecting as far as bonding and the parent then responded with rejecting the child. There are some theories which I personally don't agree with that children who didn't have proper bonding don't develop a conscience. My personal opinion is that many children grow up in horrible situations and survive and become productive members of society. Likewise, children brought up with love and kindness can also grow up to be Psychopaths. I don't believe in the "blame the parents" theory.

As a young baby did you notice lack of attachment and/or bonding issues?

Di

Hi Jen

I have read your posts with great interest because I could be saying the same things in years to come.

I have to go out today but would like to reply to your post in more detail tomorrow. Sorry this is so short but we have to drive up North to collect my partners FP from school. We had to send him away to school for our sanity.

Regards
Jan

Hi Jen

I really feel for you because as I said before I could be saying the same thing in a few years. I don’t know whether you are familiar with my posts so know my situation but my partner has sole custody of his 13year old son who is a Fledgling Psychopath.

We had to send him away to school because he was intolerable to live with, he is getting worse but at least he is not with us for many weeks of the year. His mother got rid of him when he was 6 years old because she couldn’t cope with his bad behaviour. So this has been going on a long time. He can be very “charming” to some people if he thinks he can get something from them and is a parasite .As soon as he has sucked his host dry he moves on, often very rudely.


Does your son live with you? If not how much contact do you have?

Do you think you feel up to telling me the lead up to events today like how was he as a child and when did you first have misgivings about him. Is he adopted? Do you think there was a trigger factor for his behaviour or was he always different?

It was invaluable for me to be able to write down all we had been through, firstly because it was therapeutic to verbalise the problems but also because the people on this forum are very supportive and give some great advice. They even know when you just need to rant to get things off your chest and not feel in isolation with your problems.

I too have problems with the kid’s grandmother as she will not accept that there is anything wrong with him but then goes on to tell my partner that she is worried he is going to grow up to be a delinquent. She doesn’t say that to me as she doesn’t want to speak ill of any of her “family” and I’m not considered family she will not be honest. Anyway she blames me for all his problems even though his own mother got rid if him years before I met him.
She says all he needs is TLC but will not listen to what we have been through over the last 3 years since I moved in with my partner.

I am not at all frightened of him now because he is physically underdeveloped for his age so I could hold my own if he got physically aggressive. What does worry me is the covert anger and evil in his eyes when he is thwarted in what he wants and he could easily do something behind our backs such as setting the house on fire.

I was wondering how much in common your son and this kid have and the various stages in the development of the disorder.

If you would like to discuss your situation but not in public I would be very happy for you to e-mail me personally.

Best regards
Jan

My husband married a girl whose father was a petty criminal and was killed early in a drunken car crash. This girl didn't get along with classmates or teachers and dropped out of high school. The marriage was a nightmare.It was a sad day when the charming son started in with behavior that showed no conscious or regard for anyone. We had him tested when young, sent to a psychologist (he conned the therapist), sent to EST where he hijacked the entire event.(I think the leader wanted to hire him for a EST leader!!!) Also he was taken everywhere my husband went for athletic hobbies. It was all wasted as the son is much like maternal grandfather but perhaps smarter. Jen

Jen,

My husband and I are also afraid of our son, a 33 year old version of yours, who now is also addicted to Meth. Life is a nightmare, and has been for about 13 years now. I find myself praying he dies before he does mental or physical damage to his own young child.

We live in constant stress and fear. Many will say you can't give up on them, well, I strongly disagree.
In the end, it becomes a choice between their endless WANTS and your own SURVIVAL. I am voting for our survival, with a very clear conscince.

I applaud you for having thew courage to walk away. What relatives think doesn't matter, you know the reality of your situation, no one else does.

Had Enough

Hi hadenough, welcome to the forum. I have done quite a bit of research on meth and I if I were in your shoes I would also "divorce" myself from him even if meth was his only problem (which it isn't). Violence, stealing and meth go hand in hand. That combined with being a Psychopath sounds like a recipe for disaster. Does his x has custody or is he with her and the child?

Do you mind if I ask how he was as a young child?

Di

I feel for your situation from the bottom of my heart. We had to be kicked around for 29 years to do what we have done(stay away from the P). Only when he said he wanted to harm his grandparents did we come to the end of the road. I'm his step-mother so he used the "pitiful stepchild" for years. It worked but at this point I don't care. I hope you can get through this in time to save something for yourself. I wrote down every attitude he has and it filled a notebook. I've been ashamed of having my fill of him but I think this site has helped me come to terms with it. Jen

Hi Hadenough

There was something about your post that went straight to the heart, you didn’t say much but it touched me deeply. Maybe it is because I identify so closely with your situation.

I fully understand how you feel when you say you hope your son dies before he does any damage to your grandson. I know how difficult it is to allow yourself to feel that so saying it out loud takes a supreme courage, it was slightly easier for me to admit to my feelings because I am not dealing with my own child. It is my partners kid and have only known him 6 years, the first 3 I had little contact with him so only 3 years have been hell.

Unfortunately I can only walk away mentally not physically but the upside is he is away at school; mostly.

I hope you don’t mind if I ask you a few questions. Is this your bio son ? When did you first notice there was something different about him and what was he like as a child?

You are so right when you say it is them or us, they are NEVER going to put anyone else first and even worse because they lack conscience and empathy there is little they wouldn’t do to hurt us to get what they want.

I keep saying why should this kid destroy us, we will have to get on with our lives when he has moved on. He is moving on because as soon as he is old enough to get a job he will come home that day and find his suitcase on the doorstep and the locks changed OR we will have moved away without leaving a forwarding address.

It’s great that I have got to the stage when I really don’t care what happens to him that is why I’m not afraid of him _well that and the fact he is undersized and I’m physically stronger than him. I know he could do something wicked to get at me but he is not going to intimidate me.

I would like to hear more about what you have been through and how things have progressed to what they are now.

I think you have great courage being so honest about your feelings towards your own son, you sound like a natural survivor. I wish you well.

Best regards
Jan

My son (biological son) was a great kid until high school, when he started becoming a real "wise guy" who didn't want to hear anything from teachers, parents, or anyone else who might disagree with his sense of being the center of the unniverse and doing EXACTLY as he pleased all the time, regarfless of how it affected those around him.

His attitude solidified with time and he devoted his life to going to concerts and extorting money from us. He always had a "good reason", an "emergency", and always promised to repay, of course he never did. he has extorted over $200,000 from his father and I over the past 15 years.
He spotted a vulnerability in his father's armor and worked it for all he was worth. My husband has finally "seen the light" and feels as I do now, but our retirement security is gone, and almost all of it went to drug dealers, concert tickets and fast food.

Both his brother and sister are hard working, responsible folks. He has tried to extort and guilt them, just as he has with us.

My grandchild age 4, is living with his mother 2000 miles away, and does not know my son, who sends little and very infrequent child support. We have a good relationship with the X-daughter in law and help out as we can, when needed.

When our son was age 6, I made a remark to my husband that our son would either be a top CEO or head of his proison gang, and I wasn't sure which. So, I was aware of his amoral nature at an early age, but he loved animals and was very kind to people, and of course he was "charming and attractive", a real "people person". Because of his apparently acceptable behavior we were not worried and envisioned a bright future for all our children.
At first when he always needed help, we made excuses, tried to offer understanding and support. We thought we were dealing with a normal person, we were not!

When we asked our son to leave our home and be responsible for himself, he spat at us "You can't just stop the parent thing!" He expects to ride us into our graves, I won't allow it. Predators are predators, even when they are your own children. Denying this fact causes pain, pain and more pain. I wish my son were different, but he is not. He has had every opportunoity, education, travel, undersrtanding, real estate (we bought him a house that he NEVER made a payment on) and finally had to sell it to salvage our own credit and sanity, we stupidly put our names on the deed along with him to get him qualified for the mortgage we ended up paying. So, as you can see, no matter whjat you do for them, they still disprespect, threaten, despise and hate you.

Posting for Jen:

Hi, Some of my notes during the hard times with step-son: pretends to be class act, has sexual escapades, likes to walk into a bar on the "make", lies like ordering off a menu, very wasteful - throws new shirts he bought away because they are "the wrong color", money spent like sand, a cool customer, a trail of debts and bankruptsy, uses aliases, has to live lavishy, charismatic, if commits suicide don't be fooled - another way to control, very little he wouldn't do, actually prefers married women, looking for a rich older lady, not only takes over but destroys, a snob, doesn't deal in reality - life is a TV show or a movie and he is the star, can never be trusted when it comes to finances, would steal from his mother if given a chance and sell her most precious items, a blood sucker, plays mind games, can talk his way out of anything, a smooth operator, considers himself brutally honest - really is a verbal abuser with a hair trigger temper.

Knows what you want to hear and will give it to you, strong willed, anything for attention, has to have complete attention of everyone or he is "out of here", lies when the truth would be easier, lies out of habit, will not work for what he wants, easily bored, fired for discourtesy to patrons in a resturant, fired for trying to date the bosses wife, fired for not being able to work with fellow employees, cannot hold a job for over a year, steals from employers if he can get away with it, slick, has to have what he wants instantly, lives off his parents or girlfriends if he can, cons everyone without their even knowing it, very contriving, can be very clever in his cons, good looking and dresses well, ulterior motives in everything he has ever done, verbal and interesting, a user, self-centeredness is without bounds, everything he has ever done is a lie, has to control everything around him, will lie and when found out will tell another lie with good humor, doesn't care about his lies - it is almost impossible to find out the truth from him, if caught in a lie it doesn't bother him in the least he just comes back with another lie and never gives up with the lies

Has people around him like puppets on a string, a strong confident exterior that people are drawn to, life for him has never had enough action, no matter what is given him he wants more, he will stoop to anything to get what he wants, likes to have the best with parents money or conned money, cannot work with authority, hates authority, will destroy authority in subtle ways, almost comes unglued at the slightest show of authority, cannot control his temper around authority, very moody and unhappy, wants to escape his life, extremely stubborn even when it will hurt him, he has gotten even worse as he gets older, when he was able to win a girlfriend he would then demean her to everyone - always out of her hearing, it is chilling to hear him sweet talk a girlfriend on the phone and then say something heinous about her after he hangs up, never true to a girl, acts as if he has millions of friends but actually has none and only has family to prey on, on the road constantly, sends gifts and cards to a girlfriend to keep her "on the string", uses any inter-family tension to his advantage to the hilt, will call up a girl friend he hasn't seen in ages and tell her he "loves her, like no other" just for fun, is a poor father, tries to control his child beyond what is normal, is harsh and controlling with pets, blames all his troubles on one person, sometimes his ex and sometimes his parents, nothing is his fault ever, talks about getting "vitimin sex" from every girl he meets but doesn't seem to really like girls, is well spoken around educated people and course around course people, cons so well that many people can never see through him even after being conned, gives the impression of being a good, honest man who needs help, is known as a "bad egg" to police and other area authorities without actually ever being jailed, has a professional license and has broken every rule in the profession, works every angle, seems hyper sexed but actually it may be another way to con.

Can you believe I have more notes somewhere on this 40 year old step-son? Just had to vent - Jen

Ditto! Same patterns and behaviors here.

More notes. Sly intelligence, seemed to like "loser" girlfriends more then the nice ones - he could control them better, impaired judgement, can't accept reality, always lived beyond his means, excitement always, a challange or feels trapped, too smart for this world, too restless for our town, actively avoids being accountable for his misdeeds, at times talks about how he is the black sheep, terrible things happen because of misdeeds but lands right back on his feet time after time, people who have known him for a long time consider him dangerous, apes his father and is dignified and educated acting when around him, his best times have been outsmarting "smart" people, feels taking people he considers superior a "payback" for something - who knows what, life is only two things - "cunning and conning", he is always the "lead solo", as charming as a movie star, so outgoing that one would think he is running for "mayor", always able to blend in using lies, deceit and tons of flattery, can size people up exactly, girls are drawn to him because he is so blunt and honest, is an entirely different person for each one he meets - morfs himself in an incredible way, a different life story for everyone that he meets, bilks girlfriends, will accept only the finest things, buys anything and everything, connived to get the funds to pay for the best in life, so convincing in his lies, girls tend to overlook lies even when caught, has stolen girls credit card and the girl has forgiven him, thinks it is funny to see girls fall in love with him and get hurt, spends wildly, secretive and elusive, lied easily, pathological lier, lives minute to minute but will take the time to lay the groundwork to take someone, temper can easily get out of control, cold, self image is being able to face anyone down, not afraid of running scams - loves it, a high by screwing over people and getting away with it, hates people who have been kind to him, no respect for people who love him, never sorry for anything, always a payback no matter how long he has to wait, ruthless, lies are beyond anything one can imagine, most of his talk is making fun of women, women are there for him to take advantage of, acts superior, is snotty, has spending sprees, will not accept suits off the rack, have to be hand tailored, a front of loving animals, when he goes into a room he is a magnet, life has been avoiding any form of responsibility, never pays for his own good time, wants the good, easy life at any cost to others, an inspired manipulator, becomes anything to to get into the prey's life, the best actor ever seen, girls see him as vulnerable, people want to help him because he can seem fragile, likes to fight with family, uses bad language and swearings and girls see it as being "honest", total agression, determined, work is a dirty word, ruthlessness has a flair, has to be center stage at all times, a take-over type of person, can con people who have never been conned, a bad temper, the world spins around him, puts his own spin on the truth, the most forward person you have ever met, no fear, a bully, may be capable of murder if could get away with it - but most likely would con someone else to do it for him.

I know these are repeats but sometimes I have to remind myself how bad the situation is. Jen

Hi Jen

There is so much insight you have addressed so I just wanted to let you know I would like to take some time to read it then go over it to get a good understanding of how this situation has got to where it is but also from my point of view what might happen to me in the future.

You sound like a very strong person so you must have been wrestling with your emotions for a long time.

I'll get back to you soon.

Regards
Jan

Jan - In the last year we have come to terms with what we have been dealing with and are in the stage of damage control and salvaging what resources and happiness we can. We know the only way to deal with a P is to stay away from him and not deal with him. A hard fact to take when for many years we thought just one more boost up would be what it would take for him to "take hold". Jen

Hi Jen

I have been digesting your posts –notes and more notes. This is a bit long winded but we have so much common ground it is a relief to hear that someone else is saying the same things as me.

I can identify with so much of what you are saying and we are only dealing with a 13 year old. The future looks bleak but I’m determined to get away from this kid as soon as possible.

I have taken your points as bullet points.

Ordering from the menu- when we USED TO take R out for a meal he would choose the most expensive items and more than he could possibly eat. He is extremely greedy and not just for food.
He places no value on anything and always wants whatever he sees or anyone else has, if he manages to con his gran into buying things he just disregards them as soon as he gets them. He gets bad tempered if reused anything. He once said if his father or I really loved him we would buy him things. We didn’t fall for the emotional blackmail either.

Appearance-he will only wear what he considers “cool” and it has to have a designer labels.

Rich older lady- R asked my mother on the second visit to her if she was going to leave him money when she died.

Doesn’t deal in reality-R lives in a fantasy world, I had to stop him dressing up as a Lord of the Rings character and leaping round the garden killing imaginary foe. All his play was focused on killing things. Even his Lego figures would be arranged like the aftermath of a killing spree. (Now I’ve said that I can see the Columbine comparison)
He auditioned for a part in a film after a couple of drama lessons but hadn’t even read the script beforehand then told everyone he had got the part. Some chance of that.

Would steal from his mother-R has stolen from me (including cheque book), his gran, father, neighbours and friends From our friend it was a gold wedding ring and when challenged just lied about it and kept changing the lies as each one was discredited. He showed no guilt at either the theft or being caught out lying.

Lies when the truth would be easier-spot on and I can’t fathom a reason why.

Can’t be trusted with finances-R will spend every penny that comes into his hands, even when he desperately wants something he can’t save it till the next day. Wants instant gratification so will buy anything that he sees.

Knows what you want to hear-too true! R could pass through a room full of people and tell each one something completely different to suit. Nothing he says is genuine and it’s pointless having a conversation with him. He conned his counsellor into thinking he was the victim of bad parenting.

Discourteous-when we picked him up from school the housemaster said he had received complaints from ALL the female staff of the boarding house about his rudeness and belligerent attitude. We knew the teachers had complained about him from his school report. He shows no respect to adults and answers back even when getting a telling off, whether it’s my partner, me, teachers, neighbours or his gran.

Can’t hold down a job-R can’t stick at anything for more than a couple of minutes and has a low boredom threshold. He can’t think for himself and constantly asks what he can do. All suggestions are dismissed. He has no initiative unless manoeuvring then he comes into his own.

Very contriving-engineers situations so he can get what he wants from people. A real user/parasite. There is ALWAYS an ulterior motive if he is charming or offers to do something. He wouldn’t dream of doing anything for anyone else, totally self-centred.
He’s not very bright so can’t charm with wit or conversation unless he puts on his cute little boy act. He looks so much younger than his age he then appears to be a cute “little” boy.

Hates authority-R will not tolerate anyone telling him what to do and will go out of his way to be awkward to the point of payback. His anger is covert so he steals, destroys or wets the bed for payback. He feels he has the rights of an adult.

Demeans people-R is critical of others as though he were superior, he mocked his “friend” who has dyspraxia and was having trouble with his multiplication tables even though I had spent a whole week drumming them into him.
He is very spiteful with younger children, also feigns a liking for animals but all he wants to do is control and constantly gives orders to a friends dog we often have to stay with us. I wouldn’t trust him with kittens after experiencing his cruelty to my sister’s.

He doesn’t have friends just lots of acquaintances for what he can get from them.

Will never take any blame for his actions and will even go to great lengths to blame someone else despite the obvious or being observed doing it.

Will take time to lay the groundwork-I couldn’t put it better myself. R will spend as long as it takes to lure someone into his trap. This is the only time he expends any effort. He is the laziest person I have ever met and I mean LAZY to the extent of not tying his shoelaces, putting tops back on bottles, picking up anything he drops or spills, putting sheets on his bed. He takes the easiest option every time.

He is such a con man and it amazes me how people fall for it, I think he is so transparent and because he can’t put anything over on me he wants to eliminate me.
He really hones his skills with adults especially older ladies, I can see which way he will go-he won’t be the corporate P.

There….I’ve had a god rant too.

Isn’t it dreadful that 2 such people can give us so much in common.

Best regards
Jan

It is interesting to note that your son and my son - a boy and a man are doing the same things. I would call what my husband and I have done as 29 years of hoping and praying while being blackmailed and now 12 months of late-date regrouping, retreat and salvaging what is left of our lives. Because of him - this all started last year - we no longer have family reunions, send out Christmas cards or send out newsy letters about travel and hobbies. I miss being open and loving with family. We have to keep everything a secret so it doesn't get back to the P. There are two sisters in the family who are as afraid of him as we are. In fact, they know more of his secrets then we do, because he mistakenly thought that he was a family hero for his behavior and and confinded in them. He thought that they would applaud his sick victories. The siblings don't return his calls or cards. They came to this putting up a wall independently from us. We were Fair to a point of making it a "sickness". Because of our being "totally fair"(which we now realize was just being an enabler for terrible behavior). In losing some of our family life we feel like something precious was taken from us but in another way we feel liberated for the first time. We are happy but a little sadder and much wiser. Jen

Hi Jen

Man and boy doing the same thing is exactly why I was trying to get something done for this kid, I know what his future will be. He is honing his skills and there will come a day when he is an adult with years of experience and will be let loose on society.

I don’t consider him my son at all which is so much easier than your circumstances because you must have loved your son and now you are not able to. There must be a small part of you that still loves the person that was and I just can’t imagine how hard that must be. I’ve never liked my partner’s kid although I hoped in time I would.

I likened it to a death for my partner, he needs to think of his son as “dead” and there has to be some grieving for that and acceptance that some other person is in his son’s skin. He can project all he wants and still see the kid as his own son but he won’t get anything in return.

It is so difficult because we can’t get an official diagnosis for kids in the UK so no-one can help or advise us, I have done all the research I can and I am using that and gut instinct to handle the situation. My partner is clinging to the small piece of hope that that the kid will one day change. I think he knows deep down it’s not going to happen but he can’t face up to the reality of it .How could he carry on raising this kid if he admitted it to himself. He is a good man and taken on responsibility for his son but he is not father material which he freely admits so doesn’t really know how to handle a normal kid let alone this one.

I find it hard to be in this situation and would love to say to my partner-it’s him or me, make your choice but how could I ever do that? I know he would want to choose me but what would that do to him? My only option is for me to remove myself from the situation then he doesn’t have to make any choices. I sometimes think I can’t stand it any longer and want to run but I’m not a quitter.

I do feel that I have to deal with the bulk of this problem on my own, it must be terrible to know what people think of your kid as you must know. Outsiders don’t tell my partner how they feel about his kid as obviously they know he has enough to deal with. The only real feedback he gets is from the school as they are obliged to report on him.

It’s a terrible thing to say but I just hope this kid will come to the attention of the police before long and the problem might be taken away from us.

The kid has only been back from boarding school for a week and I could happily choke him, he brings out the worst in me which I detest. If people could see the evil thoughts I have in my head they would think I was the P. I loathe was he has made me. The intensity of my feelings towards him scares me as it doesn’t feel like me if you understand what I mean. I am normally such a tolerant, patient forgiving person but can now see the other side of me and |I don’t like it. I do know that if this kid was out of my life I too would be liberated from that. You have liberated yourself but lost in the process whereas I can only gain. (Financially as well because we have to pay to keep him away from us at school which I resent paying as he abuses that too.)

Lets hope gran stops playing her silly games and phones up to ask him to stay with her. I won’t go into the details of the game playing as it’s too juvenile for words but we go through this stupid ritual every holiday.

Well we are having a “British” summer, it’s raining, cold, grey and miserable but matches my mood today so I don’t care. I need something to look forward to so any cheery post would be most welcome.

Regards
Jan

Hi hadenough, I am sorry for not welcoming you to the forum sooner, this monsoon season has been crazy and I have had to hop on and off line every few minutes;)

I am really sorry you are in this situation. Do you have any contact with your son?

Di

I'm scared of my daughter, and shes 14. I KNOW how to walk around on those eggshells, in fact I became real good at it.

yipee I found a way to post a message,

hi everyone

oky dokay ,now i can finally send my original post.

I will start with forwarding you a general history of my exes behaviours. My aim here people, is to receive support, and education, mainly in supporting me with my 14 year old daughter who has similar if not uncanny traits just like her dad. On reading her fathers history, I have always pondered whether or not her behaviours stem from a traumatic upbringing. Your input here would be greatly appreciated.

Fathers history

1. I met him while he was 26. He already had 2 children to a prior relationship. Later on I was to find he was run out of town and the country by not only his inlaws but his own family.

2. He found a pidgeon in the kitchen pooing all over the steralized baby bottles. He picked up the bird smashed it into every single wall cavity, pulled its head off, jumped on it, blood and guts everywhere, and guess who had to clean that mess up.

3. It was commonplace for him to find large insects, such as cockroaches, crickets, xmas bugs, and burn them alive using a cigarette lighter at the dinnertable, in front of the children.

4. Family cat thrown off the balcony, all its legs broken. I rememberd being grateful it wasnt me been thrown.

5. Road Rage. Dare to question his motives while driving, resulted in the care being driven into brick walls and breaking at the last minute. Baby in car and so was a friend who i have never seen since.

6. Alienates myself from family, and friends. His own friends had problems also. He would often remind me how great I had it compared to some of the dramas his friends would have. He would also set me up, something shocking, He would tell me so and so did this, and when I would confront them with the so called event, He would stick up for his buddies and make me out to be a right [censored]. He would then receive enormous amounts of sympathy from his friends for putting up with a cow like me. Then he would point out to me how lucky i was to have him, because nobody else likes me.

8. Family portrait taken at the school. While driving to the school the ex does his typical road rage thing. The actual portrait taken shows him sitting there cool and collect, while Im pictures as a mess with tears and in pain. The ex insists this photo go on the wall for all to see. He is totally oblivious that I AM NOT A HAPPY CAMPER IN THE PHOTO.

9. I am close to a nervous breakdown, Ex supports me. I am now allowed to do things I enjoy, such as the markets, the library and attend a spiritualist church with his friends wife. As he was a cathlic, he is concerned about the positive effect the church was having on me. He decides to attend to find out what that "bloody church" is about. The moment he walks in, the church is in absolute awe of his divine energy. I am put on the backburner, as there must be something wrong with me not to be happy with an angel like that. He is now invited to all the courses and meditations to find spiritual enlightment. I sit at home and hope to god it works.

10. Child not sitting straight at the dinner table. Child and chair picked up and thrown across the room.

11. Child throws toys out the second story window onto the broken perspex roof. Ex throws her out onto the roof. he blocks the window so I cant reach her. I Run downstairs and yell at her to stay on the wooden beams> and i stay underneath the roof in case she falls througH So I CAN CATCH HER.

I LEAVE PERMANENTLY!!!!!!

( much has been left out he was also verbally cruel to his children and physically brutal with myself. Of course all the bruises I received were out of sight, so know one could see. There was alcohol involved, fines, financial abuse and the list goes on).

4 YEARS OF STALKING COMMENCES

I MOVE TO A DIFFERENT SUBURB WHERE HE SHORTLY FOLLOWS> My only respite is that his friend advises him not to move into the empty house right next store to me. He moves 2 streets away instead.

In between his numerous phonecalls, unwanted visits, the charm and the manipulation continues. so does the violence. His stint at the church, he was able to learn all about the dark side, that is withcraft and black magic which he used against me and the children. He would tell me Ill stop hurting the kids if you come back to me. He would tell the kids he was going home to kill himself. Tell them I wont love you anymore until you get your mother on the phone now. Sleeps and makes friends with all my neighbours. Sleeps with all my so called friends. Gets a job at the local club where i socialize. Scares away any possible boyfriends. Turns the entire community against me through his malicious gossip. Earns the respect and admiration from the local police, as he is so good at talking down drunks at the club. Police listen to his stories, and every time try to enforce my protection order the police ignore me and treat me as neurotic.

Employs the local town gang to come around and sort me out with a couple of baseball bats. LUCKILY Im warned and I run. I move incognito interstate.


AT NO TIME DO I EVER EVER REMEMBER THE WORD SORRY EVER BEEN SAID, OR AT ANY TIME HAS HE EVER SHOWN ANY REMORSE FOR HIS ACTIONS. he also takes no responsiblity for anything, and his normal response is well that happened ok, now lets move on. (to the next drama of course)
Well thats it

Is he PYSHOPATHIC,
i WILL ALSO FORWARD MY DAUGHTERS HISTORY SHORTLY. The two other siblings have never shown any of these behaviours. I WILL ALSO FORWARD my history as I am also not beyond reproach.

Rosie

Jen, it seems like we're all talking about the same child/adult. Mine did not abuse animals that we knew of because that was a rule that she learned when she was a baby. NEVER HURT A PET. That was probably the only rule we were ever able to enforce and hopefully she still remembers that. But as far as having only the best, the most expensive clothes, shoes, everything, she sounds just like the others described her. She has an education, but no longer works and has never WANTED to work. She was in control and constantly complained and made fun of and threw her weight around her employees. They are scared of her because she told them that after she raised her children, she'd be back so they suck up to her when they see her. She's very intelligent, cunning, full of lies, loves to take people for a ride financially, bossy, etc. Just everything mentioned here. It's so easy to detach from her because we're tired of being treated like the scum of the earth. She thought nothing of belittling us in public and seemed so joyful about it when she got a good slam in there. A few people are so taken in by her that they believe we were nothing but drunken, abusive parents and she was a big enough person to even speak to us. Most people avoid her because they're in fear of her tongue. She's snotty and is so above all these stupid mortals walking the earth. Just reading these posts, nearly everything matches daughter.

Rosie, they love to isolate us from others and it seems like they don't want anyone to get along so as to compare stories about them. They tell everyone a different lie. Also, everyone is supposed to adore only THEM. When confronted with the truth of what they are, they stay away, but plan their extreme vengeance on you or someone you love. About the calm portrait~they have no conscience so they don't seem to get nervous or upset. When we've been unkind to someone and realize we were thoughtless, we feel bad and are a bit nervous. Not a P~ they couldn't care less.The easiest way to find out what he truly is would be to read a checklist that Dr. Hare has. If most things fit, he's probably a P.

Dear jamiee

Thankyou for your post. At this time all the information Im receiveing is overwhelming some. Time to take a break.
I just finished reading just a mans article of what motivates a P. I had a bit of a giggle, where it says that the P has no trouble on moving on too his next target. That happened to me as soon as I went into hiding. Almost the week after he targeted another poor gullible soul. She ended up in the same place where I had been, and ended up running over him physically with her car. Yup he lived. And after 4 years later he still targets her. This was ultimately my out, and I hope for you too he soon finds another target.

I am also a very strong woman, and I too beleive that because of that I was defianetly a conquest. Thank god you were able leave him early. And I know what its like to have your so called friends betray you. If my P wasnt sleeping with them, he was turning them against me, or simply scaring them. True friends in those days was a rare thing, and so hard because this is when you need them the most.

Take good care of yourself, and stay strong.

Rosie

Geeeeeeez Sorry Jamiee those comments were meant for pinamint, I really need to take that break.

rOSIE

I usually don't like calling anyone a lost cause, but for the P I'll make an exception. They are notoriously unhelpable, and the sooner we realize it, the more of our sanity can be saved. It really hurts to cut off family, but sometimes it is the best choice.

I really feel for you; it must be an awful thing to go through. I am fortunate in the fact that there are no Ps in my family that I know of. I have a hard time imagining being afraid of someone in the family, as you describe.