This may have already been discussed here and every time I've read comments on this subject, I become more fascinated with it. I realize that the prefrontal cortex of the brain of a P doesn't have a lot of activity. In my situation, I have an N so the prefrontal love lacks activity. BUT since most of them have been taught right from wrong, aren't their actions considered to be evil? Are they some sort of creatures from the abyss that are just in human form? A lot of these people have done such awful things and have no regrets at all. Does anyone have any knowledge of this or even an opinion on this?

I recently read an article which featured Robert Hare and a number of other researchers who state. They do know right from wrong. And they have the ability to inflict this wrong when no one is watching. So yes in this context they seem to know, however do they know the difference between right and wrong this is the question i would like to ask. My thinking at the moment is that right and wrong is simply tools in aquiring what they need> a tool to be used nothing more nothing less>

researchers have discovered abnormal brain activity< so to me this makes them able to understand right from wrong< but they cannot actually process the difference between right and wrong>

evil well, THERE actions are evil, but i dont believe at this time the person concerned is totally evil due to this brain malfunction. Just a thought.

rosie

The man I was with was very clear with me, that he knows right from wrong. He is aware of his behavior and that he hurts others and *chooses* not to change his behavior. He intentionally sets out to use, manipulate, humiliate, and hurt women, thus, in his mind, "destroying" them. He is a true sadist.

Frankly, in recent months, I've wondered if he has raped women in the past or will rape in the future or is currently raping women outside of this community. The MO is the same: aggression. I've met some disordered people in the course of my life but this one's behavior, the ex-P, is by far the most alarming.

Panamint

hey Pinamint,

I agree with you, when a person knows exactly the pain he causes, is causing, and will cause in the future to others is evil.

Im very new here to the forum, in fact I only found out what a true physchopath-sociapath is, from a documentary I Watched last Thursday featuring robert hare.

One incident I can remember from my past, is when I left my ex ,one of his friends who happened to be a juvenile prison warden, actually rang me, and warned that he knew exactly what pain he was inflicting on the children, and would continue to hurt them until he got what he wanted, and that was me. He would play emotional mind games and gut wrenching scenarios where he would try to kill himself in front of them. He was playing, he knew the pain he was causing too.

For me pinamint I think i am still coming to terms with Evil. I HAVENT yet accepted that my daughter is evil< and a piece of me doesnt yet accept that she may never change>< please also note im not even sure she is a pyschopath> so excuse my ignorance>

I was wondering if you could help me with a question that has stuck in my head for sometime. Did you ever question yourself how you attracted this type of person into your life.?

rosie

Thanks for bringing this up, Jammie. I believe very much in the concept of evil. Although not all young Psychopaths torture animals, I have to believe this is an evil act. Torturing their other siblings is indeed evil and causes terror in the family structure. I think when a person has a young FP and feel like they can't take their eyes off of them for fear of what they will do, I suspect the parent/caregiver is afraid of an evil act being done. It would be my best guess that evil and Psychopathy go hand in hand.

If you do a search here for the word evil you will see that it is mentioned very often. There is a specific thread that discusses in detail this concept Evil

From all the reading I have done I am only guessing here but I suspect Fledgling Psychopaths are evil and display evil tendencies or they are good at hiding them.

There have been a few recent court cases of young kids killing parents and grandparents. Do I think these kids were Psychopaths, more than likely, do I think they are evil, definetly. They both laid in wait for their victims before murdering them, cold and calculating.

Just my two cents,

Di

Hi Rosie and Pinamint, Your thoughts are both very interesting. It's hard to believe, but I'm beginning to think they're purely evil. They are taught right from wrong and they normally are predators to people they know they can overtake. They'll beat on a woman or child, but won't try to do it to a 6 foot bodybuilder. It's almost like their soul is a totally different species from our souls. They're just little monsters with human bodies. They probably don't want to change because they normally get what they want by being their ruthless selves. I know that some of you are also parents of a P or N and I don't want you to be hurt by my comments. We've just been through so many years and so much hatred from our daughter that I'm really beginning to see the light. Thank you both for replying.

Diane, we must've been posting at the same time. LOL This would've been really hard for me to accept at the beginning, but I definitely agree with you. It seem that they are evil because like I said before, they ARE taught right from wrong. Daughter has so many things built up in her mind about what awful people we are and that everything that has gone wrong for her throughout her life is because of the "terrible" way that we raised her. She by no means had a perfect childhood, but in her mind we were extremely abusive people. We were what I'd call "lazy" parents. It was just so much easier to let her have her way then to fight with her all the time. I keep thinking that if only we'd have been stricter and somehow forced her to listen, things would be different. But I'm beginning to realize that she's an N and there's probably nothing that we could've done that would change that.

(Did you ever question yourself how you attracted this type of person into your life.?)

Hi Rosiekiwi,
Yes, I have asked myself why he targeted me. The answer is, he targets strong women who are at a vulnerable point in their lives. At the time we dated, I was vulnerable because I was recovering from a divorce.

Looking back and having observed the pattern with other women, he selects his target early on and actively builds the woman's trust. He works at this for months, developing the "friendship". Then he swoops in, pulls the rug out and turns the other cheek.

Panamint

In reply to:

---

I recently read an article which featured Robert Hare and a number of other researchers who state. They do know right from wrong.

---

I this is quite a subtle point and not an easy one. I think that intellectually psychopaths do know right from wrong because they have learnt the difference. At least the socialised psychopaths who have been bought up in a supportive non-criminal environment do.

What they lack is the instinctive feeling for what what is right and wrong, good/evil, that normal people possess. Everything feels the same to them, whereas we are restrained (partly) by the knowledge that if we commit evil actions we are going to feel really bad about it afterwards. That 'feeling bad about it afterwards', or before the event when even just contemplating an evil act, is what the psychopath lacks. Conscience. Remorse.

Conversely normal people also experience positive emotional feelings when behaving altruistically or 'doing good'. The psychopath also lacks these.

In the absence of these feelings is it any wonder that all psychopathic action is based on the principle of 'looking after no.1. Gaining maximum material benefit for himslef and satisfying the other requirements of the psychopathic character (for instance maintaining dominance and staving of boredom - see thread "What motivates the P?")

So yes ...they DO know right from wrong, but as far as the psychopath is concerned these are just arbitrary labels - which feel just the same i.e. not at all. Like red and blue are to somebody blind from birth.

the fact that they do know the difference is the reason that psychopathy is not a defence in law for illegal actions in the way that psychosis is. The pychopath knows what he/she is doing, knows it wrong, and makes a cost / benefit analysis - when chosing do do wrong / evil, personal benefit outweighing likelyhood of being caught and punished. Conscience doesnt come into that equation as the psychopath does not have one. Emotional deficit ('stone cold') is the root of psychopathy.

Most of the time, when the outcome of any action is not likely to have any serious negative impact, I doubt that whether something is 'right' or 'wrong', good or evil, even enters the psychopaths thoughts at all. Why should it? To the P it doesnt really mean anything.

TO just a man




thankyou for the valuable information you provided in your post> I am looking for ,all and any information, on these matters.

I have a question that you might be able to help me out with.

Whats your views that phschopathy can be inherited.?

My daughter is showing the traits, (possibly learnt), my EX shows all the signs of being one< and his father who lucky for myself never got to meet, But heard plenty about, also displayed these traits.

One article I read pointed out that a certain gene combined with a bad environment can bring out this behaviour. If so, how come other siblings with the same genetic makeup or biology and environment do not have the ps traits.

The other question is this then, why is it that some of these Ps
come from really good homes?

Also another matter of interest, yestoday I came across another article in "THE LISTNER titled born to be bad" where the physchopaths were been introduced to empathy modules. They were inmates of a prison in New zealand. These modules would gets the Ps to play out the parts of the victim, The victims families, and of course the P ABUSER himself. Apparently there has been some degree of success with this treatment.

Perhaps they were never Ps at all? or perhaps they were simply been manipulative. Any idea?


Rosie

Hi Rosie, here is a link to the discussion here at the forum that JustAMan mentioned:

What Motivates a P

Hi Dianne

That article was absolutely mind bogling, in fact i am at this time going to have to walk away at this time and have a really good ponder on this. The information I AM reading here is an enormous revelation. And in so many ways a relief. The articles and the experiences from the other members honestly eeirely rings so many bells.

Thanking you all
Rosie

In reply to:

---

Whats your views that phschopathy can be inherited.?

---

Thats one of those tricky one's for which there is no simple answer. Ive speculated before on this in the thread Dianne just liked to. My view (and it is just an opinion, not somthing that I can back up with many facts) is yes, there is a genetic component, but that is not a simple single gene / two allele case like blue eyes / brown eyes. I think its likely to be a whole suite of genes which interact with the environment in a complex way which will be very difficult to dissentangle.

I also think of 'psychopathy' or 'psychopathic' as the same way as I think of 'cough' or 'headache' its a collection of symptoms, which point to a proximate cause, emotional dysfunction, for which we have no etiology.

There are a number of reasons why a person might get a cough or a headache. I think the same may apply to psychopathy. I think there are proabably a number of 'routes' to psychopathy. Some mainly or even possibly wholly genetic, some a mixture of genetics and environment, and some maybe almost entirely environmental.

For example, some individuals who might otherwise develop normally, if subjected to extreme trauma at a young age, might not thereafter develop emotionally in the normal way. Environmentally induced psychopathy.

This is all just guesswork. What is really needed is a large scale research project using the Hare PCL-R test on several thousand identical twins to start sorting this out. The results from the even smaller subset of identical twins separated at birth would be particularly interesting.

In reply to:

---

One article I read pointed out that a certain gene combined with a bad environment can bring out this behaviour.

---

I doubt that a single gene is responsible. The patterns of occurance would have been easy to spot in familly trees if that was the case.

In reply to:

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If so, how come other siblings with the same genetic makeup or biology and environment do not have the ps traits.

---

Because normal siblings do *not* have the same genetic make up. I am not the same as my brother (Thank goodness! we both cry!) Your genetic makeup is a random mixture - 50% from your mother and 50% from your father. YOur sibs get a *different* random mixture. Only identical twins are genetically identical - this is where a single egg spits in two *after* it has been created by the fusing together of one sperm and one ovum. the two eggs which result carry the same gene set.

If psychopathy is totally genetically determined (like Down syndrome) *both* identical twins would *always* end up either psychopathic or not.

In reply to:

---

The other question is this then, why is it that some of these Ps
come from really good homes?

---

This relates to my belief that there are a number of routes to psychopathy. With some individuals the genetic mix which they inherit *might* produce a very strong predisposition toward the development of psychopathy. Or maybe its a developmental abmormality - an accident which happens in the womb which prevents normal brain development, not genetic. Either way with some idividuals it seems that nothing the parents can do makes any difference.

In reply to:

---

Apparently there has been some degree of success with this treatment.

---

I'd be interested to know how they measure 'success' and how long they've been measuring it for. AS has been pointed out by Hare and others, behavioural therapy tends to produce more succesful psychopaths - it doesnt make the individuals any less psychopathic.

In the context of a prison population, this might just be reducing the rate of recidivism among psychopathic prisoners i.e. just teaching them how better to stay out of trouble with the law. Maybe even making them better at not getting caught...

In reply to:

---

Perhaps they were never Ps at all? or perhaps they were simply been manipulative. Any idea?

---

A prison is the best place to be to identify psychopaths. This is because the P cannot run away from the psychiatrist, and because the Ps full life history, at least as far as his her contact with the law, is available. In a non-prison environment that data is not avaialale and the P will just lie about the past.

I imagine the New Zealand reseachers used Hares PCL-R to sort out the P from the Non-P prisoners. The reason why the Hare checklist is well known and has been widely adopted is because it is reliable and gives statistically valid results. So... "Perhaps they were never Ps at all?" No, I think they probably were. Psychopaths do form a much higher percentage of the prison population (varies from country to country) maybe a quarter, than they do of the general population, and they can be reliably identified.

JustAMAN, that was a really good article that you found. Thank you for sharing it.

Rosie, as far as I've been able to tell, it's not inherited. It just strikes at random. I've been in a discussion and it seemed that people with Ns or Ps in their family have ancestors who may have had schizophrenia, although it's not scientific and it's not at all the same thing. I don't know why, but it just seemed to be present in a lot of the extended families of Ps. They've done MRIs on Ps and the prefrontal cortex of their brain has little color or activity. In many cases, it seems like they were born that way. That's an interesting point that both the Dad and Grandpa to this girl have had Pism.

JUST A MAN AND JAIMEE

Thanks just a man for the info, really interesting, and food for thought.

Jaimee

thanks for all your helpful input also. I rung my daughters clinic that she attended to see if they would look at possibly assess her for the Ps traits. Just like you said in your post they do not diagnose a minor until she turns 18. However, the intake officer I spoke with, is looking into a intervention to see if she cant do the necessary tests also. Please cross your fingers. As I told the officer its all a matter of elimination, to find out what is wrong and how we can support her longterm. I ALSO Have Dr HARES book ordered in.

My daughters grandfather was a revered war hero from world war 2. He made his way up the ranks (probably ruthlessly).
Also he escaped from a german prison - now thats either a lie or the germans threw him out. IM really gonna question every story I have heard and will hear from a P.

Hi Rosie, that is a shame the age is 18. Dr. Hare now has a youth version and I think the age is 14, don't know if that is for Canada where he is from or what countries allow using his test for younger youths.

JustAMan referred to some twin studies, I'll look up the link for the twin studies they are doing in the UK.

Di

Here is the article from the Resource section here:

May 26, 2005
Twins Study Finds Genetic Cause For Psychopathy

Dr. Essi Viding of the London Kings College Institute of Psychiatry and colleagues have found the tendency toward psychopathic behavior has a strong genetic component. (same press release here)

New research on the origins of antisocial behaviour, published in the Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry, suggests that early-onset antisocial behaviour in children with psychopathic tendencies is largely inherited.

...
Dr Viding's research looked into the factors that contribute to antisocial behaviour in children with and without psychopathic tendencies. By studying sets of 7-year-old twins, Dr. Viding and her colleagues were able to pinpoint to what extent antisocial behaviour in these two groups was caused by genetic and/or environmental risk factors.

A sample of 3687 twin pairs formed the starting point for this research. Teacher ratings for antisocial behaviour and psychopathic tendencies (i.e. lack of empathy and remorse) were used to classify the twins. Those who were in the top 10% of the sample for antisocial behaviour were separated into two groups - those with and without psychopathic tendencies.

Following analysis, the results showed that, in children with psychopathic tendencies, antisocial behaviour was strongly inherited. In contrast, the antisocial behaviour of children who did not have psychopathic tendencies was mainly influenced by environmental factors. These findings are in line with previous research showing that children with psychopathic tendencies are at risk to continue their antisocial behaviour and are often resistant to traditional forms of intervention.

For those who recognize the name note that Robert Plomin is one of the co-authors.

Evidence for substantial genetic risk for psychopathy in 7-year-olds (Essi Viding, R. James R. Blair, Terrie E. Moffitt, Robert Plomin) is published in the June 2005 issue of The Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry.

The bad kids who feel no remorse are genetically bad.

continued....

That was a very interesting study. I wonder if it's possible that it can skip generations. I've heard that I have a grandma who was a force to be reckoned with. She passed on just before I was born and that was in 1955 so I doubt that she even went to a therapist, let alone be diagnosed with a disorder.

I'm having another one of my unfocused days so I'm on a roll as far as posting. I used to be quite focused but somehow not consistently anymore.

I hadn't seen this post before and the suggestion that there are "different routes to psychopathy" really resonates with me. That's why I've never particularly cared for the "nature vs. nurture" title - it seems to imply the two are mutually exclusive and I believe there's too much evidence showing that environmental factors do play a significant part to discount or dismiss them.

I've always believed that childhood abuse/rejection is a strong driver towards psychopathy (for some) and the fact that most serial killers seem to have abusive parents (usually the mother) seemed to support that point of view. I've also observed it anecdotally, actually, it's glaring.

However, I had a bit of a lightbulb moment yesterday though when I realized that this very fact (the abusive parent creating a psychopath theory) may also support the nature argument. Surely, it can be said that the coldness and lack of empathy traits that an abusive parent must have are ones that are passed down to the offspring genetically. I bet it's not some huge discovery in the field of research (it seems too obvious), just one I didn't really think about before probably because I was focused on the abuse.

Then when you consider that many serial killers are found to have frontal lobe damage, the absence of which would normally cause them to mediate their behaviour, it's as if there's a perfect storm of conditions from which a psychopath is spawned.

There are so many serial killers that seem to have brutally abusive or rejecting parents (Bundy, Gacy, Henry Lee Lucas, Danny Rollings) that I'm almost more curious to read about one that came from a stable family background.

Hi sylvie, great to see you, I finally have my new email connected

As you well know I certainly am not in any position to offer a diagnosis, however that said, I have a strong hunch that Scott Peterson was a very well socialized Psychopath. He certainly has all the ear marks. His mother abandonded her first two children to adoption and from reading his step sisters book she seems quite balanced. Scott on the other hand was considered the "golden child". His parents gave him everything and although I don't understand how they are sticking by him even after the conviction, they "appear" to be very involved parents. I don't get the sense that he was abused in any way, quite the opposite. They even excused his behavior when he was laughing at the candle light vigil for Laci and on the phone with his mistress. I don't think real Psychopaths really know what is proper behavior. It was his (at the time) missing wife and he was the only family member who wasn't on the stage pleading for help.

As you know, I am a nature advocate, the way I see it and this is only my 2 cents, abused Psychopaths are the ones that end up in the prison population and those raised in a more "normal" environment probably end up in high positions and are clever enough to not be in the prison system.

I saw Jeffrey Dahlmer's dad and step mom and unless they were hiding some evil, they seemed like very "normal" people during an interview with Larry King.

Just my thoughts,

Di

One more thing about a serial killer that I read that seem startling at first but maybe not as it relates to their (psychopaths) need for acceptance (I expect many disagree with that though).

Danny Rolling also known as the "Gainesville Ripper", a nickname he earned after murdering and mutilating five college students in Gainesville, Florida in the early 90s, apparently once broke into a woman's house intending to rape her. The terrified woman reacted by crying and Rolling was said to have "felt sorry for her" and not gone through with it. Instead, they talked for a while, listened to music and had consensual sex (which totally repulsed me).

At first I thought that it was bizarre that this stone cold sadist would seemingly empathize with his potential victim and actually spare her. But at the same time, I've observed that Ps seem to alternate between sometimes seeking a form of acceptance and normalcy in their relationships, and other times punishing those they perceive as traitors or rejecting of them. I think that's actually the component of their personality that makes them so dangerous because that's how people first get drawn into relationships with them not realizing that this same person is capable of the psychological and physical savagery that defines Ps. That's also why many of them (serial killers) seem to select for instance "pretty, long-haired brunettes" or some other type because they remind the P of the person(s) who initially rejected/abused them.

Hey there Di,

I was wondering what happened to you!! Now that I think about it though, I believe you did mention that you were changing your email system at some point. Good to know that it's up and working.

Yup, couldn't agree more that the chronically arrogant Scott Peterson is a well-socialized psychopath. The fact that he could muster up the slew of people who testified on this behalf AFTER his conviction is testament to that. Funny that you should mention him today. I was watching a documentary (Blackhawk Down) on the weekend that I'd taped ages back and came across a Larry King episode (one of many) that discussed the Peterson case. There was a shot of Scott as usual pristinely dressed in some expensive looking suit. He stands up (probably during an adjournment) buttons his suit and yawns nonchalantly (and very deliberately) like the whole thing was just an inconvenience to him. Uggh!! Think he bothers me the most because he reminds me of my ex so much. Same air of arrogance, charm, self-absorption, build and face even.

I do know you tend to fall on the nature side - it seems like we all come at this from different perspectives and I think everyone's opinion is important in it's own right, that's what makes the debate interesting. It's just that 3 of the Ps I know (tiny sampling) all came from abusive/rejecting backgrounds. While all 3 have come within an eyelash of being in legal trouble, they've managed to slide by. Also, there are the serial killers etc. - I guess we tend to notice their stories because they get a lot of play.

I too wondered about abuse in Scott's background even I don't think it's always actual physical abuse but sometimes just severe rejection. I know he was adopted and frankly, IMO, his adoptive mother struck me as too unemotional or something.

I recall seeing Dahmer's father and he did seem well-adjusted. The thing is though, it's so hard to know what happens behind closed doors. Still, perhaps they were good parents, it's really hard to say.

Best,
Sylvie

OK, that's it for me today. Think, my fingers are going to cramp up at this rate, lol.

Hi Sylvie, I always enjoy a good discussion

Scott wasn't adopted, his mother Jackie had two children prior to Scott and they were both given up for adoption. Luckily they had very good adoptive parents.

I saw a recent interview with his step sister who had stood by him for a long time until it became obvious something was wrong, Anne's husband was onto Scott early on. I think the topper was when Scott was staying at Anne's house during the initial phase before Lacie and her unborn child Connor was found. She (Anne) talked about during that time being surprised when Scott was flirting with their babysitter while his wife and unborn child were missing.

When I saw Anne on an interview recently, Scott told her that going to San Quentin wasn't so bad because it was a historical site and how often do you get the chance to live in a historice building. A bit odd to say the least.

I would also have to add that I have read so many stories from victims of Psychopaths saying they were told the Psychopath came from a bad home, call me skeptical but unless I saw it on video or met the family I am not sure I would believe them.

This is just a wild guess but I think they might say they had bad homes to divide and conquer, garner sympathy and keep the current victim from ever contacting the family. No one can play the victim better than a Psychopath.

I really appreciate all the input we discuss here and find it very interesting and am always interested in different views.

What about all the people raised in horrible situations who turn out to be kind and loving people?

Di

P.S. I owe an apology to those that have joined in the last couple of weeks. I have had a tragedy of life and for the first time in years have been unable to particpate in the forum, so I am sorry if I didn't welcome you to the forum.

Hi ya again Di,

Ok, I fibbed. This one now is my last one - I'm all posted out.

Interesting, I thought Scott was adopted - guess I got that jumbled. Thanks for those examples. I heard about the babysitter episode. You'd think someone as devious as Scott would remember to keep his sleazy side under wraps at a time like that even though it's probably difficult to keep the mask on ALL the time.

I agree that some probably use the "abused childhood" story to manipulate but in many of these examples (of serial killers for instance) it's been independently confirmed by media etc. I both came to think that my ex milked his childhood abuse story as much as possible but also that there were strong indications that it was true.

I should clarify that if I believed that nurture plays a strong part in the formation of a psychopathic personality, it wasn't to the absolute exclusion of nature as a possible contributor exactly because of people who experience abusive childhoods but get through that without developing psychopathic tendencies, in fact even seem well-adjusted.

It seems like living in such grotesquely abusive and oppressive conditions must evoke some fairly primal survival instincts and perhaps this response sort of crystallizes in some people's personalities and becomes a key part of their make-up. Also, perhaps they have some genetic component that predisposes them to that outcome if exposed to those conditions. For me anyway, that makes the most sense. Besides, we know that people often react and are affected very differently by the same set of circumstances even in other situations. It is both fascinating and unsettling at the same time.

I certainly hope you are doing ok. You've been in my thoughts.

Take care,
Sylvie

Thanks for your kind words, Sylvie.

I don't think Psychopaths are capable of knowing how a "normal" person would react. It seems like they don't get it, so I don't think it is a mask issue, for example it is my guess that the mask dropped the night Scott murdered Laci and his unborn son. On many of the shows I have seen on A&E where the perp seems to be a Psychopath that seems to be a general red flag for the family of the deceased to see how they act inappropriately at the funeral etc. Of course the defense side argues, there is not one way to grieve, however, in the case of Scott, laughing it up at the vigil caught the attention of many. I think it is momemts like that when people just get the sense that something just isn't right about how the P is acting.

I guess as I am rambling along here is it the lack of empathy that perhaps make them laugh at funerals? And the mask dropping is when the eyes change and they turn evil?

Di

Hi

I find this debate very interesting. In my opinion my partner's FP was the one who did the rejecting. He rejected his mother from birth and nothing she could do for him would comfort him.
He has carried on like this for all his 13 years and escalating.

Jan

Hi Di

I couldn't agree more about the Ps saying they were abused, (of course some were). When my partner's FP lived with his mother she was totally indulgent with him but a new husband and sibling spoilt his reign and it didn't suit him any longer and that's when he made her life hell when he lost control of her. His campaign of mayhem included implying he was being abused (no evidence whatsoever)and made her tell mt partner to take him.
Of course when I came on the scene he lost control of his indulgent father and is now on his campaign with us and now goes back to spend time with his morher. Full circle? He is just out to get control of people and trying to get his mother back under control by being the cure little son. He will soon show his true colours again after the honetmoon is over.

Regards
Jan

Hi y'all. I'm new here and I've posted a couple of things on other threads. I hope it is okay if I just jump in here.

My P said he was sexually abused by his mother... but the statement sounded contrived and thin and he never elaborated, only held it up like a flag, and as an excuse for why he rejected any suggestions affecting our sex life that I made.

What he has said that rings true in all the retelling is that his mother was an alcoholic (and I've met his FAS sister), and his father always made sure Mom had her alcohol, and dad had affairs that the kids knew about.

Because dad was a philanderer, and because he kept mom drunk, I'm assuming Dad had anger issues with women. And of course mom bathed all her unborn children in alcohol and then couldn't care for them properly after they were born.

I really think there is a huge amount of developmental growth that happens that last month before birth and shortly after birth that is profoundly affected by stress and affection. I think a child that doesn't get even the bare necessities for connection in the early weeks turns its back on the word and never ever develops the capacity to connect. This child is a psychopath. I don't think psychopathology develops as the child ages, but is rather a lack of brain development because the stimulation for that development was just not there.

Diane1969

Anytime Di.

It seems like they don't get it, so I don't think it is a mask issue, for example it is my guess that the mask dropped the night Scott murdered Laci and his unborn son.

This seems like a contradiction (on the face of it anyway) but perhaps I'm missing something.

My two cents is that it's exactly because Ps don't react and emote the way normal people do, that they have to put on a mask. If they didn't, they'd be recognized as Ps from the outset.

Yes, I think they're just not moved at funerals the way most people would be.

When I saw Anne on an interview recently, Scott told her that going to San Quentin wasn't so bad because it was a historical site and how often do you get the chance to live in a historice building. A bit odd to say the least.

The guy goes from nibbling on canapes and sipping merlot to probably washing down a lumpy mac and cheese meal with cherry kool-aid and he's still trying to be grandiose!

In the way of historical buildings, ummm...I think I'd take a stay at Hearst Castle over San Quentin. LOL

I had initially thought that it must be terrible for someone like Scott, who loves the good life and then ends up in prison. Now I'm wondering if it wouldn't affect a P that much because they're a P and don't really feel that much anyway. They are the ultimate survivors after all. Too bad if that's the case!

Hi Diane1969,

Welcome to the board. It's an open forum - feel free to jump into any discussion.

I'm sorry you found yourself in a relationship with a P. I think when someone is involved with a P, their world becomes very small and confining and that's exactly what they want. Also, that's too bad about your dad - I can't begin to imagine how difficult that must have been. More strength to you for getting through these situations.

I thought it was interesting that the P kept cards and letters etc. The P I dated threw out every single thing I gave him a couple of times after we got into arguments. I am pretty sentimental so at the time, I found it shocking that he could do that so easily. Think that was his intent anyway, he knew it would push my buttons. However, I think he may have kept items of clothing (all sorts!) from his exes too.

Anyway you cut it, these guys are freaks.

Regards,
Sylvie

P.S. What is an "FAS" sister?

Hi Sylvie, yes you are correct, I mangled my observations about Scott.

I agree I can think of several historical places I would rather stay. Perhaps it is the lack of emotions that makes prison as good as a comfy home? I would suspect he doesn't consider the issue of being killed by another inmate since he killed his own unborn son. That said, he is getting a ton of letters and support from women so that may also be feeding his ego? I did a ton of research a few years ago on women who go after life time inmates, another subject but interesting how there is an attraction to one.

Or with his parents behind him still is he thinking in his own arrogant way that he will get out on appeal?

One other interesting thing, not to turn this into a Peterson thread but it struck me as odd that when he went off to college his parents moved to the same town. Still protecting something they deep down saw in him as a child? A good friend of mine who also followed the case, read or heard somewhere that as a child, Jackie (Scott's mom) carried him around much longer than a parent would when the child was able to walk, what was she keeping him from doing?

Di

"A good friend of mine who also followed the case, read or heard somewhere that as a child, Jackie (Scott's mom) carried him around much longer than a parent would when the child was able to walk, what was she keeping him from doing?"

Stopping him from running off and hurting himself. Low fear response of the P. The mother of the P I know about tied a rope around his waist and then tied that to heavy piece of furniture. To stop him running away. He would not obey his mother and would always try to get away and go off exploring, rather than the normal behaviour of very small children to stay close to mum.

Seems to suggest that as toddlers P's probably injure themselves more than non-P children. Falling down stairs... that sort of thing.

Hi JustAMan,

Very interesting.

Also could be to keep the kid from harming the family pet or other siblings?

I have also read that parents of suspected P's which they imo, refer to as RAD and I wonder if that is a pre diagnosis, suggest putting alarms on the doors inside the house to monitor where the kid is. Sounds like a horrible way to live.

Di

Hey Di,

I'm not sure if Peterson has contact with other inmates - that's right though, either way he seems oblivious. I heard about all the fan mail he gets from adoring women. Guess he's (sort of) a good-looking guy and some women are flaky. Probably only a matter of time before there'll be a new Mrs. Scott Peterson, like Mrs. Eric Menendez.

That is weird about his parents moving to his college town. The vibe I get from that family is the same one I got from my ex's. At first everything looked picture perfect, then the cracks started to show.

One of Scott's ex-gf's said that he hung on every word and smiled and agreed with everything she said. That would drive me nuts. I would have asked the guy to kindly disagree at times, lol.

Maybe we should have a Peterson thread. IMO, it's helpful to discuss an actual case when debating some of these issues.

Rgds,
Sylvie

Hi Sylvie, yes this entire case has interested me for a long time.

There is a thread in the "Famous Psychopath" section.

Scott Peterson - Psychopath

or would you prefer one here in the "Family Section"?

Peterson's comment about it being nice to live in a "historical place" reminds me of my P relative (the male one) talking, no bragging, about how he had friends who got their law degrees while in prison (I know some inmates do). My ex and I were practically on the floor laughing that he seemed to consider a stay in a penitentiary as the favorable route to higher learning. He just seemed totally clueless as to why we were so amused. What with free room and board and all....

Hey Di,

Same here, I was fixated on the Peterson case. He seems just about the most socially adept of all the famous Ps.

Thanks for the links. The CourtTV one looks interesting - I'm checking it out. I clicked on the SPeterson link but get an error message. Not sure why but if that can get resolved that thread works fine.

Actually, funnily enough, I only just now noticed your's and KT's responses to my post about Ira Einhorn. Sheesh, am I ever quick - they're from more than a year ago, lol.

Sylvie

Hi Sylvie, I was probably moving things around, the link should work now

Di

Ok, great. Thanks.

-----------------
"Regards,
Sylvie

P.S. What is an "FAS" sister?"
--------------------------------

FAS is fetal alcohol syndrome.

Diane1969

FAS is fetal alcohol syndrome.

Thanks.

Sylvie

I questioned the same thing..why do I attract them? My psychologist said it simply...You are not judgemental! and if anything that is the main door they use! they play on our compassion and love. They very things they lack and the very things that make us a target...the very things they want to destroy in us and make us feel what they feel. It is very scary, I do believe they are some form of evil entity...the very opposite of love, fallen angels that the flood missed maybe??? who knows they come as the angel of light but do everything they can to destroy...I got out with my life, my spirit...just in time... but it only left him brewing for the past 7 years waiting in the shadows for another chance to destroy my soul...the very thing i never realized he may have lacked...he was good a mirroring humanity...but without his script he fails. Evil is the only word I can use, the only one that is the exact opposite to LIVE is EVIL backwards...mirrored!

I too fall into the tentacles of sickos.
I grew up with a Psychopath father and I still cannot get out, he's in the family. And he reached his tentacles over to all my friends, relatives (wom he all curses at home) They all love him!
My Psychopath fahter is the most evil person that I ever had contact with. And because of him, other Psychopath's always got me. Perhaps because I "played the game". Now I know how it works and avoid other Psychopath's.
But my dad remains, he haunts me everywhere. He convinces people of his sick stories and those people tell them to me. This happens all over again. Been going on for 25 years now. I am nearing 26 and I feel I lsot a quarter of a century with this sicko.
Interestingly I tried braking with him at 23. But I missed him at 24, so we kind of got back togther. Now at 25-26, he is even worse than he was, some of the sicko things that he did, still continues doing today.
I continue my life, many new things happen, I want to get a PHD and many other things.
But my Psychopath father cannot even perceive how/who I am, he remains stuck in his sick dimension.
He' a horrible man, but is full of charm and so many people love him, including his enemies. I feel doomed whenever I see all people around adoring him, like he was a humorous entertainer like Jay Leno... He also plays like a Dalai Lama, smart, who always shows me as the "bad" one... But inr eality, he's a Mr.Hyde, an emotional monster! Only a handful of people know it and understand me

I believe he's sick and evil, both.
At first I believed that he was only the latter, then I read about Psychopath's and noticed he shows all the characteristics and I felt destroyed...... It was a horrible thing to find out that my dad was not only a bad intentioned, but also a sick man, who cannot feel reality, cannot love anyone, but himself!