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#7792 - 01/28/09 03:31 PM Re: Children of psychopaths [Re: neverthesame]
harmedbypsychorelatives Offline
member

Registered: 01/28/09
Posts: 1
Dedicated to the world.. I have proof that this is genetic. Here is my amazing yet painful, and devastating story.


Yes..It is most definitely genetic.

My mother had 5 kids. She gave all of us away. 2 of her sons are half brothers. They never met until in their thirties because the youngest daughter she had did a search to reunite the long lost family and did so with success..

The mother has a personality disorder. She is evil and pits everyone against each other and does everything in her power to keep her 5 kids separate from one another. Will use people then stab them in the back causing much personal devastation and exploit your private life to your husbands, boyfriends etc. to drive people away from you for no sensible reason other than to cause pain and disruption because this is how she gets her energy for survival.. It's a a very nasty condition. Like and evil form of retardation, but these types of people are highly intelligent yet stupid at the same time and have a childlike selfishness that can destroy those who are close to them.

Her 2 sons who did not have exposure to one another let alone even know each othe existed, both beat their wives, left and abandoned their children, are users and abusers, and are attracted to people with money. They both caused social embarassment to their wives and have both got their wives in trouble with employers too. Left them in financial devastation etc. They both refuse to bond with the kids they left behind and use photos of their kids to show off what they have produced but nothing more than that.
One of the brothers even knew his wife had cancer and when asked where she and the little girl may be he simply replied, "Down in Louisiana Rotting". It was shocking to hear and was seen as the first big red flag..

Remember these 2 brothers never had one bit of exposure to the same upbringing but came from the same psychopathic womans womb. Interesting for genetic research, but painful for family members.

The one psychopath brother was already cut off from his biological father, adoptive step-mother and her 2 daughters. They want nothing to do with he and his sister.. Now I understand the truth behind why they are avoided. Of course the psychopath brother and sister gave a different version, which may be partially true, but there is a darker reason behind it. They are the smoothest liars and so talented at appearing sincere, but it is not real. Beware!

The mothers oldest daughter has it really bad too - she despises all of her youner half siblings and wants to be the only child to get her mothers attention and resented the fact that her youngest sister found the others, her second daughter has it, but only one out of 5 did not get this disorder and she has difficulty dealing with this fact and has had to cut herself completely off fromm all of them after a few years of the family reunion as one of her half brothers tried to destroy her life. It was very nasty and to awful to go into on this message board.


Just to note: The psychopath woman who gave birth to these five kids was born to a mother who also had a severe disconnect with her child and psychopathic disorder and the grandfather which is the father of the psychopath mother was reported to be sadistic like hitler as he was also from Germany. Psychopaths tend to attract one another too and their relationships don't last long either.

I am wondering which populations of people have the highest proportion of this disorder as I am sure its prevalent in many races. But this family has had interracial marriage after psychopath daughter emigrated to the united states and has produced many offspring who may be carrying this disorder further into different racial populations as well as a result of interracial marriage.

I hope to educate my long lost nieces and nephews about this disorder, but fear some of them may be psychopaths too and fear sharing too much as it will be futile and dangerous to educate the wrong ones as they may become masters at hiding their condition, but it never lasts long and will surface because the mask of sanity never lasts.


So be careful who you have kids with genetics can be mean and nasty thing to deal with. Get a good idea of how their family treats each other and if you find a good person who unfortunately came from such a rotten batch of humans move far away with them and keep your marriage strong and intact, so you can raise your offspring in a close, loving and supportive environment to help reduce the chances of having more psychopathic children.

It is like a disease running rampant in our population in 2009. It must be stopped. I almost wish the governments would round these people up and sterilize them as they are like a big huge cancer to the rest of the population. These people are often responsible for the downfall of major corporations and financial institions such as the ENRON scandal.


These are the kids and neighbors and co-workers who bully our best and brightest to destroy them. Psychpaths are attracted to highly successul, intelligent, articulate people. The don't go after ugly, depressed or disordered women or men.. And may be the same with psychopath females too:)

They are disease carries too, will get you sick and refuse to seek treatment if they have passed and infection to you.. They will act as if you are crazy and ignore you it really is like dealing with a retarded person who is highly funcitonal though..

If you have family, friends, co-worker or lovers like this. Run and even cut people off connected to them who don't believe you because in time they will, but by then the damage caused is often too late to repair friendships.. This is how dangerous these Narcissitically impaired people are, so run - and don't look back, but do your best to share your story and educate the rest of the world, because our courts, police etc. don't yet understand this phenomenon in human character and still have a long way to go..


I feel so sorry for women and men and family member victimized by these creatures.
We must have hope that justice will prevail and eventually all these monsters will be marked and exposed so they can't cause the rest of us anymore psychological, physical, emotional and financial harm.

It's time for the world to come together and stop them.. There should be a colony for these things to live together and implode amongst themselves- short of extermination:(

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#7793 - 01/29/09 10:18 AM Re: Children of psychopaths [Re: harmedbypsychorelatives]
Jan
Unregistered


Hello Harmed

I am pleased you have visited our forum. You have certainly been through a very painful experience and I hope we can provide you with some support. Are you the youngest sister of this dysfunctional family? I can see how angry you are because of these people and the way they appear to get away with their devastation. You are so right that you end up feeling like the crazy one.

Do you have a name we can use for you as the user name you have registered with is so hard and you are not that person.
I am reading a book at the moment called Evil Genes by Barbara Oakley, have you read it? If not I think you will find it very pertinent. It does explain the action of genes and personality in a way that is comprehensible and so much falls into place when you can understand it. Personality does seem mainly genetic.
None of us on the forum is able to offer a diagnosis but you sound quite sure you know what sort of personality disorder your mother has, can you share your opinions about that so we get a clearer picture?

I am about to do some research to find out if any communities, countries or races have recorded data on psychopaths to assess if there is any difference in the figures. I suspect some countries will not have this data or would not want to publish it. This may be something that is addressed in the book but Iím only half way through so havenít come across anything related to this. I have heard Inuit are aware of psychopaths and they have a saying about if anyone in their community comes across a psychopath they push them off the ice.

It is said that therapy makes psychopaths worse but is there anything that makes you suspect your nephews and nieces have personality problems and you should avoid them? They may have problems because of being part of a dysfunctional family but not necessarily psychopaths themselves.

I agree that we all need to share our information and expose any psychopath who has caused us problems. If only governments and professional could get together and acknowledge the real issues we may have some hope of change.
The professionals donít seem to even be able to agree amongst themselves about what a psychopath is or how many are under the criminal radar. There seems to be a lot of woolly thinking depending on whether they are clinical or non clinical. Most diagnoses for psychopathy is done in the prison population but I believe we donít have a clue what the true figures are. It is said 1 to 4% of the population is psychopathic and of course that figure is much higher in the prison population because that is the only place they have a Ďcaptiveí audience for testing. I have worked for a psychopath and there is no way he would ever get a diagnosis unless he does something criminal in business and gets caught out.

You have given some excellent advice from first hand experience and unless more people like yourself tell their stories there will always be a poor understanding of the real problems psychopaths cause.

I hope you are able to tell us more and please feel free to ask any questions if you think we can help.

Regards
Jan

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#7795 - 01/30/09 11:21 AM Re: Children of psychopaths [Re: harmedbypsychorelatives]
Deb Offline
member

Registered: 02/25/06
Posts: 85
Hello Harmed,

Thank you for your post~your descriptions of "an evil form of retardation" and "highly intelligent and stupid at the same time" are so perfect. My ex in-laws are so similar. I am assuming you are the one who did the search to re-unite your family. How heart-wrenching to find this at the end of all that work.

How long did you try to bond with these people before you realized how toxic they were?

As you say, perhaps you can educate your nieces and nephews about this condition. If one or all of them someday need help, a great deal of good can come out of this situation. I understand your fear in dealing with them should they have this disorder as well but I think you will know who is who at some point. I would think that the healthy-thinking ones among them will eventually start to question the behavior of others in the family. When the questions start to arise in their minds, they may well seek you out for answers.
I wouldn't even attempt to talk to any of them before they begin to question things, you will only crash into a wall of denial which is another realm of pain unto itself~~I have walked through that realm and I don't encourage anyone to visit there.

Thank you again for your words, they have solidified so much in my head. You said that the one sister despises everyone who may take the mother's attention away from her. I see that in each of my ex in-laws as well~~each fighting and clawing for the parental spotlight. (All the siblings are very narcissistic, with at least two of them being full-blown psychopaths.) Where the disconnect with reality REALLY becomes apparent is when you know that the parents of these siblings have both been dead for YEARS. Evil retardation indeed.

I believe that one day I will be approached by any nieces or nephews who are questioning the family behaviors. I am certain many lies have been told about me, but someday they will understand why I disconnected completely from all of them. I believe in my case and in yours that the greater good will win out.

Thank you,
Deb

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#7830 - 03/05/09 08:52 AM Re: Children of psychopaths [Re: Deb]
On My Own Again Offline
member

Registered: 03/04/09
Posts: 64
In the book, "The Psychopath Next Door," the author suggests that there IS a cultural component. Our culture promotes the idea of the importance of the individual, an attitude that may encourage psychopathic behavior. I believe it is the Japanese culture she describes - a culture that focuses not on the individual but the good of the group as a whole. According to the author, about 4% of the US population is psychopathic, while only about 1% of the Japanese population is ... if I'm remembering correctly.

Curiouser and curiouser, as Alice in Wonderland would say.
_________________________
On My Own Again

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#7831 - 03/05/09 09:06 AM Re: Children of psychopaths [Re: On My Own Again]
On My Own Again Offline
member

Registered: 03/04/09
Posts: 64
Your words really struck home with me, "each fighting and clawing for the parental spotlight ..." That summarizes so many of the stories I have heard about my soon-to-be-ex's family. I'm a historian and when I first started dating this fellow 5 years ago, I was fascinated by the stories of old Texas ranching life. I listened to his 90-plus year old mother for hours on end, and took notes, planning to write the family history ... I may still do that, but with the rose-colored glasses now ripped off my face, the story will be "The History of a Psychopathic Rancher, His Pyscopathic Children, and His Psychopathic Grandchildren"! Sure to be a best seller, don't you think? Especially right around here. Boy, I would be a pariah if I blew the cover off this family. Might be fun.

The grandfather was larger than life, and everyone worships his memory - now I suspect that he was, as you say, a "full-blown psychopath." He put together 6 ranches, and so each of his children inherited a ranch - but when he died, they found out that they owed $1 million-plus in income taxes he had never paid. He put together his empire by starting a small local bank, lending money to ranchers, and then foreclosing on them when they couldn't pay during the frequent drouths around here. He always had women on the side. He had a lot of cattle business in California, and when he died at 96, he and his wife were living in an apartment on one floor of the Biltmore Hotel in downtown Los Angeles, and his mistress lived a couple of floors above them. How handy for him. Think of it - still catting around at 96! The family tells these stories, and they all chuckle.

There are zillions more stories. All told with a chuckle by the children and grandchildren.

I'm outta here.
_________________________
On My Own Again

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#12566 - 01/21/12 04:34 PM Re: Children of Psychopaths [Re: neverthesame]
pluscrafts Offline
member

Registered: 01/13/12
Posts: 3
My two youngest siblings do. There are 5 children, the 3 oldest were physically and verbally abused. The 4th child is mirrored the mothers psycopathic ways.The 3 oldest discuss issues and litterally mentally fight themselves not to say crude, cruel things to others. Eatch of us have had re-train ourselves not to be like our mother.

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#12567 - 01/22/12 05:17 AM Re: Children of Psychopaths [Re: neverthesame]
pluscrafts Offline
member

Registered: 01/13/12
Posts: 3
My mother did not give us away. I to come from a fam. Of 5 children. Instead , she made us grow up with pure evil. We were and still are not good enough. We were always refered to as "the five god damned kids". We were physically and mentally abused- actually we still are. We are all grown with our own grown children and grandchildren! We still fear her. Some have yet to figure out "WHY" we still go visit! I say its because we're still hopeful for love and recgontion. Additionally, I've pointed out to some of my siblings, we always take her a gift when we go there. She never goes or phones any of us! Even when I was going through cancer treatment! Her response to me when I phoned her and told her I had cancer- "well, I told your dad , we have been lucky so far that none of our kids have died" how would you take that?

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#13552 - 07/03/12 01:18 PM Re: Children of Psychopaths [Re: neverthesame]
Happy Birthday RedWolfe Offline
member

Registered: 07/02/12
Posts: 10
Originally Posted By: neverthesame
Has anyone had experiences with psychopath's children modeling their behavior after their parents?


Yes, I did.
-- To deal with my father; a diagnosed textbook socio-path -- a psychopath with good manners, I learned how to shut my emotions off.

After a while of living that way; without emotions, I became aware that I was not quite as human as everyone else around me. I was too cold, too logical, and definitely missing something; something that kept me disconnected from everyone else around me. I could see danger and lies, but I couldn't connect to anyone emotionally. I couldn't understand what they felt.

As it was explained to me by the psychiatrist that worked with me, victims of abusive psychopaths DO tend to take on the traits of the psychopath themselves. Children often do this, but Adults do too.

Out of sheer self-defense, they shut off their emotions. They become psychopathic -- on the surface anyway.

When dealing with a psychopathic monster, affection in particular is a huge liability. The clever abuser knows how to ruthlessly use the affection their victim feels towards them to hammer them with targeted guilt-trips and lies. "If you loved me, you wouldn't make me do this to you..." They do this to keep their target from fighting back -- and it Works.

Until the victim finally shuts off all feelings of affection, but most importantly: Fear. One can not show fear to a psychopath. Showing fear is like blood in the water to a shark. The more they see, the more they want and they will go into a frenzy to get as much as they can out of their victims.

Another trait of the victim of a psychopath is that they use cold hard logic the same way as a real psychopath. However the tell-tale difference is that these fake psychopaths don't use lies the way a true psychopath does. They use facts because Absolute Truth is the only thing that will stand up against a psychopath's web of constantly shifting lies.

I shut off my emotions deliberately at the age of 13.

I even remember the summer afternoon I chose to do it. I quite literally stood in front of my bedroom mirror and told myself that That Man downstairs was Not my father. He was a monster that only looked human. He didn't deserve anything from me; no love, no respect, and no Fear.

It felt liberating.

An odd side effect of cutting off those emotions was that my tolerance for pain increased - exponentially. Suddenly all the beatings I was receiving at the time didn't hurt as much.

However, the other side effect was far scarier. I became extremely aggressive to everyone around me; vocally and physically. At 4'9", I'm rather short and I'm also female. That didn't stop me from literally picking verbal fights with people Much larger than me until they retaliated -- physically. No fear, remember? That lack of fear also comes a weird lack of 'survival instincts'. (THAT is what makes psychopaths so scary.) Just so you know, those verbal assaults and the results WERE calculated. It was designed specifically to make people attack me so that they would get into trouble.

Here's the truly calculating part: It was practice for dealing with my father. At the time I was doing this, I was 16. Two years before my mother would finally notice that dad was violent and divorce him. My plan was to expose his violence by triggering it deliberately in front of an audience.

In case you're interested, it didn't work. I did succeed in getting him to act out in front of people, however he'd set the groundwork to label me as a liar and trouble-maker a little too well.

Anyway...

Once I shut my emotions off, his emotional attacks stopped working because I no longer cared what he thought of me. It took another year before I mastered using Logic and Truth to beat him at his own verbal games. However, once he realized that the mental and verbal attacks weren't working, the physical attacks started escalating.

When I was 16, the physical attacks finally reached the point where the only thing he hadn't done was broken a bone, or sexual abuse.

He wasn't about to send me to the hospital with a broken bone. The last thing he wanted was visible proof that my mother couldn't ignore. Proof that I hadn't been lying all these years about what went on when she went to work at night.

One night after a particularly vicious argument over cleaning (he was a rabid clean-freak -- an OCD psychopath,) it all came to a head. That night he showed me that he was seriously considering the only avenue of abuse left. He pinned me to the floor.

That's when I finally snapped. I bared my teeth at him, and told the monster holding me down that if he didn't stop right where he was, I would kill him if I had to bite his throat out to do it. I meant every word, and in that moment I was fully prepared to do it too. There was not one drop of fear in me, only a white hot rage that had been boiling for years.

He replied with, "But you'll go to jail."

I responded, "But you'll still be dead."

We went back and forth, saying the same thing over and over, louder and louder, until we were shouting in each other's faces. My three younger brothers heard us screaming at each other all the way upstairs.

"You'll go to jail!"

"You'll still be dead!"

Then he 'made a move.'

Mouth open, I lunged for his throat using every ounce of strength I had.

He jerked back, hard.

My teeth clicked together so hard, it sounded like a plate snapping in two. I was so angry, I didn't even feel it.

He froze, and there it was in his face. Fear. He believed me. He absolutely believed that if he tried to go that one step further, I would rip his throat out with my teeth.

It was over. I had won. He was afraid of me. I looked him dead in the eye and spoke, icy and emotionless. "Can I get up now? I have to go to school in the morning."

Without a word, he let me up.

Without a word, I went up stairs.

That was the last time he touched me physically.

However, he started going after my 3 younger brothers more than ever. John was 14, but Phil was only 8, and Alan 2. Once I realized that he'd switched targets, I ran interference; deliberately getting in the monster's way to distract him off of them. Deliberately putting myself in his path and picking fights. Deliberately daring him to strike me instead. He would yell at me, but he would back off -- only to wait until I wasn't around to go after them again.

Finally, he did something to my brother John, two years younger than me, that my mother couldn't ignore -- he left bruises around John's throat. The next morning, she demanded a divorce.

I was 18.

In anger, he committed himself to an institution and blamed my mother for it. It was a very foolish move on his part because that's when everyone; my mother, his family, and his employers, found out exactly what kind of monster he truly was. He was diagnosed a textbook socio-path; a psychopath that had learned to blend in perfectly with his surroundings -- a perfect Monster. Everything he'd done; his lying, the child-abuse, every nasty trick and habit was exposed.

My mother was stunned. She'd had no idea because he had taken great pains to hide it from her -- and convince her that all 4 of us kids were liars. (My mother is still amazingly good at not seeing what she doesn't want to see.)

I was thrilled. Finally, I was vindicated. Finally, I had irrefutable proof that I had been telling the truth all along.

Unfortunately, they let him go a few months later, but he didn't live with us anymore. Even so, my personal war raged on for one more year while he abused his 'visitation rights' to openly stalk my best friend Margaret who was staying with me.

Rather than deal with my father's pursuit of Margaret, (Denial once again,) my mother told Margaret to leave -- for her own safety.

I wasn't having it. The only friend I had ever made was not going anywhere -- not because of him. When he showed up that afternoon, I chased him out of the house, and at the top of my lungs, told him to stay out.

The best part? He DID. He refused to enter the house if I was there -- and I made sure that I was Always there.

That was when my personal war finally ended for good. With that monster, anyway.

Then came the side-effects of my war.
-- I had absolutely no social skills at all.

Despite all odds, I had graduated high school, but I had never made any friends there. When one's Survival is at stake, things like friends and homework just don't have any real meaning and since I'd cut off my emotions, I didn't feel lonely or regret for the grades I could have had if my parents had just been Normal.

The only friend I had was Margaret, and we met and became friends only a week before I graduated; months after the monster left. That's an interesting story all by itself, but not for now.

Anyway...

My war was finally over, and I was more than ready to rejoin the rest of the world, but I had no clue how because the people around me didn't make sense. I couldn't understand them.

When one shuts off one's emotions, especially affection, one also shuts off compassion, and it's compassion that creates empathy; the ability to place ourselves in other people's shoes and experience for ourselves how other people feel in similar situations. This is what creates connection to the people around us.

For all intents and purposes, I was a psychopath. I was a monster.

What saved me from staying that way for the rest of my life was my best friend.
-- Margaret took it upon herself to socialized me. She taught me about music, boys, alcohol, and how to talk to people without triggering an argument. She taught how to smile, how to laugh, and that it's okay to care, even if they didn't care back. More importantly, because she had been there during my last showdown with the monster, she understood why I was having problems being human.

With the help of a psychiatrist, I learned that my emotions were not gone, merely shut down. They were still there. In fact they'd pop up unexpectedly every now and again, usually around Margaret because I felt safe with her. I just needed to figure out how to get to them to stay on the surface.

I didn't regain the ability to feel empathy and compassion for anyone, not even Margaret, for another two years. It took another four before I could feel compassion for people I didn't personally know. Truthfully, I have no idea when I became fully human again because the process of recovering the emotions I had shut away was so very slow. However, I have them now. All of them, even Regret and Remorse. (I discovered those last two the hard way.)

According to the psychiatrist that worked with me, children adapting to the psychopath in their life by cutting out their own hearts; by shutting off their ability to feel, is Common -- and it can happen overnight. Recovery from do that to themselves -- from turning themselves in to monsters... That takes, much, much longer.

To help someone like that, child or adult, return to being human, the first thing you need to gain is their Trust.

-- They need to KNOW that you would never hurt them deliberately. (Accidents do happen.)
-- They need to KNOW that if you make a mistake, you'll own up to it.
-- They need to KNOW that you will not LIE to them.
-- They need to KNOW that if you make a Promise, you will keep it.
-- They need to KNOW that tears will Not make you angry, that it's okay to cry.
-- They need to KNOW that you are Not a monster waiting to catch them unaware and destroy them.

Only then will they believe that you really do want to help them become human again.
_________________________
RedWolfe

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#15341 - 06/17/13 09:02 PM Re: Children of psychopaths [Re: James]
brave Offline
member

Registered: 10/27/12
Posts: 34
Originally Posted By: James
Hello,

....

I was born at about the time when he was 50... And he always showed me to people as his "defect mentally ill and antisocial kid"... But, the problem is with him.

I guess that psychopaths have a social need. Maybe he wanted to have a kid, "just because" or 'cause he would have bigger credibility.

All my life I was his punchbag...


I remember being called crazy and getting beaten, and threatened with mental wards. I was nearly committed.

Me being "crazy" was an excuse for hitting, and violent rages from my brother, which my mother participated in, and egged him on.

I would often also get called self centered. I remember trying to find a brand of beer my mother liked and I could not find it, so I picked something I thought she would like. I think she labelled me a narcissist because she felt I was only going after what I liked when I couldn't find what she liked. I often felt carded and catalogued into being a narcissist over the smallest slight. I too also had an anger problem if I just plainly pointed out her behavior.

She seriously projected her behavior on her children but only sees herself as a victim, never an active participant.

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#15343 - 06/18/13 08:52 AM Re: Children of psychopaths [Re: brave]
crocodile Offline
member

Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 329
That's unfortunately the "normal" psychopatic behaviour: projection, crazy-making and the false victim syndrome. Nothing is ever their fault, everything is wrong because of you and you're a crazy overreacting, oversensitive, egoistic person.

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