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#591 - 08/21/02 03:46 PM Re: The Mask of a Psychopath
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi beenthere,

Not I even believed what had happened. When things happen to a person that are so out of the realm of normal, there is a sense of disbelief surrounding those things. I don't know how to explain. The mind rejects severely traumatic experiences. I think this is a protective mechanism. The mind deals with it in layers, little pieces at a time. And when the event was perpetrated by someone you love, that slows the process down. The mind works harder at denial. I dealt with that event, in dribs and drabs, through the years, but it got very little attention, because, from that time on, those events happened regularly.

This is why a severely abused person gets stuck. The mind can really only deal with so much trauma. When it starts coming at you left and right, something breaks, shuts down, there are inadequate resources to cope, and you become dissociated, in some ways, from reality. You become dissociated from your inner self, and this enables the psychopath abuser to control your perceptions of reality, even more effectively. It's horrid, vile, so evil.

When that event occurred, I happened to get a phone call before I had gone numb. It was a friend, mutual friend of him and I. I blurted out what happened, and she said something like, well she would want to hear his side of it. My God. Like someone who holds a knife to your throat an entire night has a side of it. I hung up on her, called my best friend. She did believe me, because she knew my heart, though she, like me, could never figure out what to make of it. J was such a white knight, in his mask.

We were in counseling at that time. I never told the therapists (2 women about this) but J made up a lie about me, shortly after this, sabotaged me, in the therapy, and the 2 women turned on me like sharks. I realize now he did it to prevent them believing my story if I told it, which I did not intend to. He's utterly evil.

I feel so sorry for your psychopath's wife. They take normal stuff like attempting to pay bills, and make it into being a controlling ogre. They make her life impossible, and then define all her attempts to do the impossible as abusive to him. Yes, she is his scapegaot. Believe me, she's earning her keep. Though sadly, I also know her life is not worth living.

You get absolutely nothing in a relationship with a psychopath. The only reason my marriage lasted so long was that J trained me from day one to accept absolutely nothing and rarely even see him. He did this by consistently painting me as devouring and needy, and in the way of his business and success. The real problem was he couldn't maintain his mask for extended periods. He needed all his time to smoke dope, prowl around window peeping and molest teenagers. You are the lucky one, beenthere. You got away.

kris

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#592 - 08/26/02 06:02 AM Re: The Mask of a Psychopath
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi Kris,

Thank you for your reply and I am sorry it has taken me a few days to get back to replying, as I have been thinking and organizing my thoughts. Just in my relatively brief experience, I can understand what happened to you because I also went through the denial. Even when all the lightbulbs were going off in my face and his lame excuses, I was giving him the benefit of the doubt. Here he is still projecting the image of a concerned medical staff member with his "crazy and sick" wife until she gets better and he is out there on feeding his sex craved need: He once told me that he did not have any money left to go out. A few days later, I did some creative investigating and found out that he had subscribed for membership on an adult porn site. If I was to tell him what I knew, I would have been faulted for finding out and not trusting him.
So in that instance, he was manipulating me.

Yes, Kris, I can empathize at what you been through and the distorted perception of reality and making you out as the scapegoat. If not for the forum, I would have thought that I was nuts. A majority of the postings on this forum reaffirms what I have experienced and the mask of the psychopath.

Yes, I feel sorry for his wife too. I think she was trying do him a favor by putting his wants in front of hers and he seemed to bite her head off for it because he was felt he was entitled to buying what he wants. That was a brief slip of the mask on his part. There has been too many times when I have wanted to call his wife and tell her--Wake up! I do not know if she would believe me or what would happen to me.

I don't feel like the lucky one, Kris. I did not get away unscathed. I feel like I haved been scammed and used. My sense of trust has been shattered. There has not been any closure with him, just denial.
I could go back with him in a heartbeat if I would be oblivious to what he was doing behind my back.
Right now I am bitter for him getting away with it and I pray to God, what goes around, comes around. I know in my heart, that that is not the way to be; yet that is what I am feeling right now.
Beenthere

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#593 - 08/26/02 10:40 AM Re: The Mask of a Psychopath
Anonymous
Unregistered


beenthere,

I related strongly to this:

"I think she was trying do him a favor by putting his wants in front of hers and he seemed to bite her head off for it..."

This touches on one of the traits of a psychopath I found most confounding. Even the sacrifices you make them for them, they quickly turn into abuses that you are heaping on them. They have no ability to recognize love, not even the most selfless, profound, devoted sacrifice...a psychopath would see Mother Theresa as a devouring, selfish, manipluative shark, if he was involved with her. I think I suffered more from this dynamic than the physical abuse because it was an assault to my core being, my heart, the place where I acted out of love. To have that place continuously reinterpreted by the psychopath, and reflected back to you, as evil, is devastating, utterly heart breaking. This hasn't been talked about I don't think. I have been doing an edit of my book, and just did a chapter in which, possibly, the most hurtful example of the psychopath doing this to me, was written. I want to present a sketch of it:

For 3 years in the eighties, I provided elderly care to a very old man who was extremely difficult. At a certain point, the psychopath was not making money, and that coincided with this old man offering me a piece of land from his farm, on which to build a house, and also the offer of my family moving in with him.

I was a full-time student a good private college, full financial aid, one year left to graduate, getting Honors in my classes. I moved my family (2 kids)into the old man's ramshackle house, to take the pressure off of Psychopath, and to put in payback hours for the land.

That old man turned out to be a psychopath. All his old cronies came by and confirmed this after I moved in. He screamed at me, night and day, called me a tramp, screamed at my kids, wouldn't let them use the bathroom, would not let me sleep at all, at night. We had no money to get out. We were there 5 months, until my financial aid got us out. I lost my health during that time, and so did both of the children. One of them is not well to this day. I lost my education because I got so sick, I couldn't do the work. I got so sick, my relationships with my kids were never as close because I didn't have energy for them. Even after I left the old man, I continued to work 3 night shifts (no sleep 3 nights a week while ill and still a full-time student) to get that land for my family. I tolerated horrible abuse from him 2 more years.

We got the land just in time because we couldn't pay rent and had to move to it and live in tents. I was desperately ill and never stopped working. We couldn't get a loan on just the land, needed a basement, so I picked up a shovel and dug one. I had pneumonia by this time, and didn't stop working. We got a building loan, enough to build a 500-square foot house. We all lived in the shell while we built it. We were under pressure to get the house built ASAP to get the loan installments. We had to live on the laon installments, buy food, as well as build the house. This put pressure on us to do more of the work ourselves.

One day when my husband came home drunk from the county fair, I tried to point out to him that we needed to pull together (I'd been working all day with pneumonia). His response:

"We wouldn't have financial pressure if wasn't for YOUR lifestyle?"

I said, "What lifestyle?"

He gestured around at the beautiful forested land I had killed myself for, sacrificed everything for, and said, "All this." With a curled sneering face. His sweep of the hand included a battered 12-year old rusted Chevette, and a 500-sq. ft. shell of an unfinished house, for 4 people. the only thing lush about my lifestyle, the land, had not cost one red cent. It had cost pieces of me. We'd had the land maybe 8 months. Already, Psychopath had transformed my years of sacrifice into an abuse of him by me.

the psychopath's view is so irrational, that when you live within it, you become irrational yourself. You can't believe what you're hearing. It never makes any sense. So you just feel confused all the time, figuring it does make sense, but there is something wrong with you because you can't understand it, and besides, he is so mad at you, for some reason. That time, however, his view was SO outrageous, I couldn't not see it. I never forgot it. The crap that psychopaths say about their spouses is crap, total crap because their heads are full of crap. There is nothing a psychopath's spouse could ever do that he would not make into an abuse of him.

I wouldn't call his wife, if I were you. It may send her into a spin which will only make her hell more hellish, while her rationalization processes may keep her hooked and in denial, anyway.

beenthere, you have been scammed and used, but it could have been so much worse. YOU could be the wife. Your life could be like the one I describe that was mine for 30 years. Sure, you could go back to him if you could find a way to be oblivious. Finding a way to be oblivious could become your full-time job, your life's work. But trust me, beenthere, you don't want the job.

He will definitely meet consequences some day, somewhere, perhaps not in this world. What a psychopath does is the most greivous sin against God. He works against all things that are of God, truth, love, peace, harmony. He will meet the consequences of his deeds, I am certain.

kris

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#594 - 08/26/02 11:33 AM Re: The Mask of a Psychopath
Anonymous
Unregistered


Dear kris,

Oh boy....what a gem you wrote:

"a psychopath would see Mother Theresa as a devouring, selfish, manipluative shark, if he was involved with her."

Yes, yes, a thousand times yes!.

You wrote:
"I think I suffered more from this dynamic than the physical abuse because it was an assault to my core being, my heart, the place where I acted out of love. To have that place continuously reinterpreted by the psychopath, and reflected back to you, as evil, is devastating, utterly heart breaking. This hasn't been talked about I don't think."

I agree kris, that this hasn't been talked about or addressed. This very sneaky, twisted, oh so difficult to convey thing about what psychopaths do to anyone who opens their heart to them. The ones most vulnerable; their family members. Insidious, hidden cruelty. What a realisation to come to.

This was my experience as well. My exhusband showed a wellspring of destructive actions that are not punishable by the human system of justice, the legal system. Soul murder is not punishable by law.

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#595 - 08/26/02 11:35 AM Re: The Mask of a Psychopath
Anonymous
Unregistered


"....The crap that psychopaths say about their spouses is crap, total crap because their heads are full of crap. There is nothing a psychopath's spouse could ever do that he would not make into an abuse of him....

AMEN!

Kris, what you lived through was CRAP! I am sorry to know your life was so bad. You are right a p. will answer for all they do one day....the important thing is that we are all here and have chosen a p.-less life, or at least looking in a different direction.


When a p. screws up your frame of reference it's like you are moving around in a bowl of Jello that didn't firm up. Nothing makes sense because of all the lies, the games, the deceptions, the betrayls, and the wielding of their power over you mixed in with the 'crumbs' (someone made that reference in a post a few weeks ago) of I love yous, I'll do anything, you're the best thing that ever happened to me's...."

They lie and twist it and lie some more and watch you running after reality, questioning, stumbling and feeling so bewildered it becomes your regular state of being.

when you leave a p, coming back to reality you also feel a sting of the 'snap'. It's a shock to look back at where you've been.

I'm glad you made it out.

C.

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#596 - 08/26/02 11:38 AM Re: The Mask of a Psychopath
Anonymous
Unregistered


Cherie,

"Soul murder is not punishable by law, yet."


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#597 - 08/26/02 11:58 AM Re: The Mask of a Psychopath
Anonymous
Unregistered


Cherie, I love how we here on the forum seem to resonate, on each other's wavelengths.

"My exhusband showed a wellspring of destructive actions that are not punishable by the human system of justice, the legal system. Soul murder is not punishable by law."

I articulated, in my head, in the am, while working on my book, an almost identical statement:

"There are some things worse than murder. And they are not against the law."

They are against God's law, though. God's law is simply LOVE. The psychopath's entire orientation is an opposition to God's law.

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#598 - 08/26/02 12:08 PM Re: The Mask of a Psychopath
neverthesame Offline
member

Registered: 09/13/05
Posts: 53
Yes, yes yes Cooper. I was fully immersed in the jello. Drowning in it. There is no way anyone else could possibly understand this dynamic unless they had experienced this first hand. It is so very difficult to explain to anyone.

Therein lies a problem that I have been thinking about for days. There are not many places survivors of Psychopaths can go for support and/or sharing (thank you for this site Dianne). Most professionals in the Mental Health field have little or no training in Psychopathy. Who can have even an inkling of what it is like or how to help? I have been thinking about the ones that don't survive intact. I am sure there are many many victims, suffering alone. Many never recover. Instead they live their lives depressed, scared, shattered, and isolated, and may die early deaths from illnesses borne from the stress of the Psychopathic relationship. My 81 year old mother is one of them. She was married to my Psychopathic father for almost 50 years. She has never recovered, never lived again. She sits, reads, and dissociates. She did this even when I was a child. The pain was simply too much for her to bear.

I am going somewhere with this thought. I am just not sure where yet. I wonder if Dr. Hare has any additional thoughts on this. I welcome feedback from all of you.

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#599 - 08/26/02 12:09 PM Re: The Mask of a Psychopath
Anonymous
Unregistered


Cooper,

"When a p. screws up your frame of reference it's like you are moving around in a bowl of Jello that didn't firm up. Nothing makes sense because of all the lies, the games, the deceptions, the betrayls, and the wielding of their power over you mixed in with the 'crumbs' (someone made that reference in a post a few weeks ago) of I love yous, I'll do anything, you're the best thing that ever happened to me's...."

Oh yeah.

Let me take your metaphor a little further and say that it's like being a bowl of jello which is the entire universe. It's so hard to find your way out of it because every direction you turn, more jello. You see everything through jello. Jello is your whole world.

Getting out the jello is an incredible blessing, coming back to a reality which makes sense. We are just plain blessed to be out.

kris

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#600 - 08/26/02 12:20 PM Re: The Mask of a Psychopath [Re: neverthesame]
Anonymous
Unregistered


neverthesame, I've been thinking about the ones who don't recover, too. I want so much for this topic to be talked about, in open forums, TV, radio, Internet. There have to be millions of victims living out desperate, soulless lives due to psychopathic abuse. It's wrenching.

I have read, in some Hare interviews that he plans to write a book addressing the victims. I wish he would talk to US. I've been trying to reach him for 6 months, and have given up. He is always on the road, lecturing. Maybe his path and ours will cross, yet. I truly hope for this.

kris

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