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#611 - 08/29/02 09:05 AM Re: The Mask of a Psychopath
Anonymous
Unregistered


beenthere, "I would like to clarify further what I wrote. When I remarked, "seemed to bite her head off for it" He did not overtly raise his voice in anger."

I think I read this in an even more subtle way than you meant it. I always read things according to my experience of a psychopath. Mine was so subtle, in his manipulation, you would not even have sensed he was angry. You would have sensed he was trying to say something positive about me, but that beneath his generous, good-hearted, positive attitude, lay the depression of a man who was, in reality, controlled and browbeaten by his wife.

J was a master of deception. He was able to convey to others the impression of both his conscious and unconscious selves, conscious = thinks well, speaks well, of his wife, due to a kind, generous nature, unconscious = depressed, due to sublimation of his feelings over his wife's control and abuse of him. J's language when pulling this manipulation, was peppered with "Freudian slips", and overstatements, i.e., "Kris is a good person. I really believe that." Combined with body language which conveyed the opposite of what he was saying. When making the above statement, he would then deop his head and shoulders and look away.

J's act was very enticing because people got to feel insightful around him, got to feel they knew him better than he knew himself. They also got sucked into fulfilling his intention for them. They worked at getting him to see he had rights, his feelings mattered, he shouldn't be so hard on himself, maybe his wife wasn't such a great person after all, maybe he should stand up for himself. He got them to dislike me, and feel sorry for him.

Ugh.

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#612 - 09/03/02 11:21 AM Re: The Mask of a Psychopath
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi kris,

I understand what you are trying to say and the subtle way in which the p controlled. Likewise, this one also got me to believe that his wife accounted for his every cent and he, too, in your words, "controlled and browbeaten by his wife."

I don't think there is just two masks though, "the public and private" one. I think there is a mask to fit every encounter with a person accordingly. I think he was a certain way with his wife, different behavior with his parents, another personality with me, at work persona and studying others personality and tailoring his mask to fit the occasion.

I have tried for my own curiosity and I may never will figure out why he had this need to drink when he was with me. I had once thought it was to control anxiety. Do you think that the drinking brings out another personality? Just a thought. Beenthere

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#613 - 09/05/02 03:20 PM Re: The Mask of a Psychopath
Anonymous
Unregistered


Pat
(member)
09/05/02 02:09 PM

Dr Jekyl - Mr. Hyde

Hello Everyone;
I have been thinking alot lately about the P I knew and his ability to quickly change roles from Dr. Jekyl to Mr. Hyde. He was usually very pleasant, charming and all around nice. BUT, he could become extremely angry especially when confronted about his lies, cons, or manipulations. The strange thing is-he could just as quickly become a pleasant, nice, charming person once again. It was such a quick change, as if someone just flipped a switch. I was just curious if any of you had experienced this with the P that you knew.

**moved here since this thread is discussing this topic, Di

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#614 - 09/05/02 05:24 PM Re: The Mask of a Psychopath
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi I think the way they can change moods so quickly and easily is one of the scarriest parts about them. The guy I was/is/want to be(?) with can change in seconds! The one thing that seems to really get him going though is to make him mad (which is pretty hard not to do because you never know what little thing you say might tweak him) Any time I question him or try to second guess - look out! If I ever try to argue my point (even if it's proven to be true or inconsequential) it's like his whole demeanor changes and he goes crazy. But then something else will happen and presto chango! He's all happy and acts like nothing ever happened. So does any one know WHY this happens? It seems like I've read other posts along these lines and the Jekyll/Hyde thing was pretty apparent too. Any ideas on the whys of this?

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#615 - 10/13/04 07:53 AM Re: The Mask of a Psychopath
Anonymous
Unregistered


I came to this board for help about my sister who murdered her husband.
The one I know w/o any reservation to be a fullblown psychopath is my daughter's father. And I hate to go back and remember. And his trademark is his bloody violence.
But the day the mask cracked was 2 or 3 months into dating him and it was not anger. We went to some shops. We bought a crystal he wanted to hang in his car. We drove to my house. We sat in his car. He got a piece of thread or something and hung the crystal and looked at it and he disappeared.
I will never forget the faraway look in his eyes.
It sent shivers up my spine.
I broke up with him.
He cried and begged for weeks and thus began a decade and a half of hell b/c he wore me down, I went back, I fell in love.

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#616 - 10/13/04 08:47 AM Re: The Mask of a Psychopath
Nan Offline
member

Registered: 01/12/04
Posts: 501
Hi Outsider,

It's interesting that you say, 'the mask fell but it was not anger'.

The P I knew also did a "disappearing" act. We were sitting in his car and he asked me about my religious beliefs. I mentioned my interest in exploring different aspects of different religions and he went....His voice changed. He spoke as if he was drugged. A wild stream of words against religions. His face looked totally different. His eyes looked weird, wild and non-seeing - as if he was watching a strange movie on the inside of his eyelids. It lasted about five minutes. I just sat there. I did not dare interupt him. Suddenly he came to and I could see that he was now 'awake' and normal...yeah well! He behaved as if it was all pretty ordinary.

Later he became verbally abusive, aggressive and threatening. He never remembered his outburst and when I tried to discuss them, he claimed I had instigated each one. He was NEVER his fault. It was ALWAYS my fault.

It took me a long time before I figuered out what was going on and even then I did not believe it at first. Now I know!

P's leave you feeling like a crazy Alice in upside down Wonderland. P's are masters at making you fall in love with them. And once you do, you are fair game. Anything goes!

I made myself so impossible that he chose to leave, which was the object of this particular exercise. I instinctly knew that he would never let me go, so I HAD to make him leave.

I have not had any contact for many, many months and I have not seen him for two and half years. If he came to my door, I would not even let him in the hallway. Luckily, I was never married to him and there was no children - I am 57.

How old is your daughter and what have you told her about her father?

It's so hard to think about the P that was in your life and in that respect you are the same as most everyone here.

But like you, we post and try to help other victims by telling our own story or parts thereof.

Take care,

Nan

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#617 - 10/13/04 02:44 PM Re: The Mask of a Psychopath [Re: Nan]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi nan,
You are so smart to have made him want to leave you. Outsmarting them is part of surviving them. He wrecked my world for so many years and I didn't know what was up and what was down and yes EVERYTHING was my fault and someone elses fault. I tried to commit suicide 3x b/c of this jerk and sort of lost my identity in the long process of coming clean of him. He committed a heinous bloody crime that was so horrible I had to raise my daughter knowing it b/c to have discovered it at any age with any support group no matter how good would have been too much for her to bear.'
He was out of prison for a while and we tried to reunite as a family (stupid me and the P's famous tricks) and inside of three months he did about 2 years to 4 years worth of damage to our life.
My daughter can't stand him. He fought with her like another little kid and demanded respect as a father (he's never suppported us) and was incarcerated all her life. He is back in jail for violating, is on a hate binge blaming the world, he is still transfixed on me. But he has abandonment issues big time and I don't think he'd ever kill me or her and I am over him so the fear of him has pretty much subsided.
It's been a horrible road.
Now this nightmare with my sister and the fact she killed her husband--three months has almost gone by--I miss him so much as a brother--it makes me sick that he is dead.
And I read the threads for a while today. Someone nailed it about my house--my mother...she must be "borderline" (w/ bp flair too...I think, no I know) and I am her punching bag all my life and she has no clue it's devastated me.
I want to walk away from it all and forget it, be strong, forget it. Be normal, trust people, get a life.
But something essential and vital gets cracked at the axis--the very base of your being and it appears it just cannot be fixed.

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#618 - 04/27/05 11:18 AM Re: The Mask of a Psychopath
MoreCautiousNow Offline
member

Registered: 04/26/05
Posts: 110

Hi Di. I'm new here and just discovered your post. Your question is one that I've gone over and over again in my experience with the psychopath. I wish I had the whole 18 months on tape and could review it. Memory is "fuzzy". I read "Without Conscience" several times.

I think that psychopaths give clues all the time to their true selves from the very beginning. I also believe that this involves part of the "thrill" they get. The P I was involved with was very intelligent and very socialized. Lying is an art with them. Technically, they don't lie; they DECEIVE. They will give you pieces to the puzzle, knowing that you won't be able to recognize it.

Funny you mention "eyes changing". In my hindsight recollections that was something that stood out. I mentioned in another post that my P, in our final confrontation, got a "glazed over" look in his eyes and his stare was past me, thru me, way beyond to who knows where. It was very, very odd and very scary -- not exactly in a threatening way, but frightening in a way where the average person recognizes it as "not a normal response, something rather bizzare". It was not a wistful look, or a pensive look, it was strange. The best way I can describe it, it seemed as tho he was in some kind of "disconnect" mode. I can only guess at what triggered it. However, I "fuzzily" recall seeing it several times before. One time I registered it was right after I met his mother (who he seemed to be somewhat fearful of in an odd way) and he was telling me what his mother said to him about me. I have tried to put this together from memory as to what triggered his "trance-like" stare, but I can't quite put all the pieces together. The best I can come up with is that some sort of deceit was going on clashing with truth. ??? The first time I registered the stare was when I accused him of lying and he tried to say he hadn't. Technically, he hadn't lied, but he had deliberately and knowingly been deceitful I informed him. ???? The final time I saw it the conversation revolved around emotions/feelings. I had challenged him by asking how he felt. Somehow, (sheer luck) I pushed all the right buttons in just the right order and got a "REAL" response. The P could not tell me how he felt because he has no real emotion. For that particular P, I think that the element of surprise and the series of events caused the "disconnect" that occurred. It was as if I had caused the robot to shut down. It's only temporary, but I got a glimpse of it.

It's impossible for anyone to continue elaborate charades (lies) without eventual detection. You see the cracks because you will sense something "wrong" you get a "red flag" that your memory stores away. More and more flags start popping up and ultimately you are forced to examine them more closely.

Everything is just "wonderful" in the beginning, but as you sort of settle into things and the rose-colored glasses come off, you will begin to notice oddities. One that comes mind for me is an incident with a rather large insect that I came across in my home while he was there. I was petified. He very calmly walked over and picked the thing up in his bare hand. I demanded the the critter be killed as I could see he intended to toss it outdoors. He then proceed to squish the critter, again barehanded then tossed it in the garbage. Now, I've witnessed other men, my brother included, who were willing to come to my rescue over some critter, but these other men were obviously reviled over the critters, but not as frightened as I was. What I mean is, they would oust or kill the critter, but they obviously didn't want to touch it. The lack of fear of a critter is not the mark of a psychopath in and of itself, but the low fear response IS. At the time, I was just amazed that he wasn't fearful of the insect so much so that he would touch it with his bare hand AND kill it. Most other guys would have at least gotten a paper towel or something. My point is that certain events will seem odd or "unusual" and the longer you continue with the p, more and more you will "see" the cracks. They won't exactly register at the time, but when you start to add them up, alarm bells will be going off. So, yes, the cracks do become more frequent (apparent) prior to the unmasking.

I hope this gives some insight.

MCN

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#619 - 04/28/05 12:56 PM Re: The Mask of a Psychopath [Re: MoreCautiousNow]
significantother Offline
member

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 9
The masking. It was later, we were sitting in a crowded room with lots of noise. I am usually very bothered by this, but being with him made me feel unusually comfortable, always. He was talking, I felt that we were the only two people in the room. Then bam, he was looking at me and I him, but there was nothing. I gave a smirk with a hmm and he asked me what? with a look on his face like it was the end of days for him. I mentioned how his eyes appeared to change to black and asked what was burdening his mind so? We were both set to leave to different places for different reasons. He was hesitant, and appearingly annoyed with this fact. (I now believe his reason was possibly having a family to return to, at least one anyway). He stated something simple that he wanted. I said ok.
Honestly, I realize these are the things that attracted me to him. All my life I have always been attracted to the 'bit off' or obscure. I find that I feel out of place in the arms of 'normal' as society sees it. I'm a bit of a fool I suppose. I made a horrid mistake. I trusted the wrong sort of character. In many ways I cannot even blame him. It was he that told me what he was. Early on even, after trying to spare me even. This is where things don't fit. Why? Why did he tell me? Why didn't I run? Why didn't I pay more attention? I made it very easy for him. He treated me with respect, too much, with passionate loving, too much, all an act? I want to vomit when I think about it now. That is, after reality gets a grasp on my fantasizing however. I spent little actual time with this man. He damaged me, emotionally and physically, with intent, with deceipt, all lies. I should feel fortunate that events fell the way they did. I would be married to him now. I would have relocated and likely become something lesser than me. And instinct tells me that I would be replacing another. Intuitively I feel that somewhere there are several women who no not this side of this man. Maybe they do and they don't care. I care. It is bothering me greatly. Because of his lies, it's nearly impossible to tell. I find that I have envy for this lack of emotion. It is a burden which is pinning me down. If I had one wish, it would be used up on something I should like to have never known.
Well, this is me and part of my story. I have read many of yours and wonder how it is that people have to suffer so? I admire your strength. I choose not to burden the people I consider friends with this. My one attempt was not what I envisioned. Thank you for listening.

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#620 - 04/28/05 01:18 PM Re: The Mask of a Psychopath [Re: MoreCautiousNow]
significantother Offline
member

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 9
--More Cautious Now--

Thinking about the bug thing. I think it was his way of showing you how he can control things. Not only that but how it should prove worthy to you. "Look at me, I will kill for you" kind of thing. He made a show of it as to seemingly make it 'special'. Call it programming or brainwashing, but amazing how it works for them. I remember being in a secluded area outdoors with him and there was a very odd and loud noise. I do not frighten easily but of course it startled me. His eyes never left mine as he was unphased. He held me tightly and "assured" me that I would never be in any danger with him. Made me acknowlege it as if we were in a movie. I thought it strange afterwards that he had no natural 'startle' reaction. Actually made me think that he staged it, which he could not. I do believe most of his behavior stems from low arousal levels, it would explain most everything. No, it explains everything...

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