I Have an urging question...
I reed of questions and discussions that Psychopath will or will not heal.....How is this possible. ..Did I get it wrong????

I saw the documantary Of dr Hare 3 years ago....After that I cried for at least a week...I finally found what was wrong with my son.
The hardest thing to watch for me was the brainscan. There was a scan of a normal person and one of a Psychopath....This was so clear..so very clear....to my at that moment...Now I am confused.
At that very momment I realized several things;


A) he would never change.
B) There i snothing I or anybody could do to help.
C) He cant help it himself.
D) there is never ever a change to grow out of it.

So this is it!!!
And I have to learn somehow to deal with it in a way that will make me a suviver.

Now I read a lot of times that there is still an attempt to find a cure.....
Can somebody please explain this for me?

Hi Segaya,

I am also preoccupied with this idea, but I doubt that I'll ever find a cure.

Psychopathy means: no conscience. And, therefore if the Psychopath has no remorse, empathy, feeling or wright and wrong, there is no hope for them to learn how to be normal.

For now, I accept that there is not cure.
And will just have to deal with it.

It's horrible, but there's no cure.
If there will be, it will probably be an operation (surgery) or some microchip implant or something.
I guess Psychopath's lack certain centers in their brain or they're less developed than ours.

I have several questions too, related to this...
What do you think?...

1)Cats & dogs often show shame, remorse, sometimes don't do forbidden things.

Why are pets ashamed? Is it real shame or just afraid of being punished?

2)The dog's the men's friend. Indeed, they can truly love us, they show compassion, empathy...

Unlike psychopaths.

In this case, a dog is superior to a Psychopath person.
I think so!

So if you're lonely, after escaping a Psychopath, get yourself a dog!

3)I tried to change my Psychopath father by imitating his behavior to him.

Have you ever done so?

My father didn't even notice that I behave like him.
I wanted to see his reaction.
If he sees me imitating him, maybe he can realize how sick he looks like, but he had no idea about what I am doing.

Have you ever had similar experiences?

Can Psychopath's recognize their own behaviour?
Or are they like cats staring at a mirror and not knowing that it's them "in there"?

I found it shocking.
On some days, I imitated his speeches and insisted on things that he used to say, but on those days, he was contradicting me (therefore contradicting what he used to say for so many years)...

In my childhood I even recorded (in secret) a scandal that he made with my mom.
Then, a few weeks later, he met with my grandma (whom he hates). He was talking nice to my grandma, at first, then started cursing his brothers (whom I thought he loved).
It was so strange...
So, I thought, I'd give him some "special effects" and brought my cassette recorder (this was in the early 90's btw, there was no MP3 then), then started the tape to play loud!
He heard himself cursing my grandma to my mom. While he was trying to convince my grandma that his brothers are bad people.
My father was shocked and almost beat me up. He stole the tape and didn't give it back.

I don't know what was he feeling...
But seems like he changes faces so fast that he might not remember or doesn't want to remember his old cafes...

What I am telling here and asking you: has anyone ever tried to show a Psychopath how they are?
Like putting a mirror in front of an ape?

4)I noticed that Psychopath's have such a big resemblance, they are like twins, in many cases.
My question: psychopathy is only born with or can it be learned?

Morality is learned! That's one thing many of you will agree on.

I think psychopaths are:
- either people who are born with the incapacity to learn morality
- or people who could be normal, but are not brought up in a normal family or there's nobody to teach them how to behave

What do you think?
I guess there are a lot of people from the second category.
Because I have had colleagues in my teenage years, who were certainly psychopaths, but had no normal family either.
So, if one doesn't have a normal family, can that person turn into a psychopath?
My opinion is yes...

What do you think?

hai James,
I read your posting.
You talk about the animals..I think indeed there's a simalarity but maybe not with pet animals...( don't know how to call it,I mean animals that live in the house with people ...)

I don't agree with you that dogs forinstant can truly love a human being.They are looking for 'the boss'... The one who feeds them. If you have a dog and he listens to you, and you can cuddle him, it's oke...But if I start to take care of him in a good way.and even if I did so in a bad way the dog will have the same behavior with me... It has to do with survival,not with love.
Look at the way to train a dog...If you want to learn the dog something and he does right, you give something to eat. If he doesn't do right you don't give anyhting.That way the dog learns because his instincts tell him to go for the food. NOT because he likes you so much...
As long as the animal is in a human enviroment the dog will be the minor so he will listen and he will show behavior we will call love .But that's because we like to think that we are loved.

The ps in our lives doesn't love us...knows his or her way to influence the people around us. And know exactly how to 'get us'.
Somehow these ps are masters in psychcology. Though they don't know 'normal' feelings..somehow they read us like a book and make there moves.And hurt the ones who are close to them in the sence that they are related to them or live in the same house.

If you compare ps with wild animals then I start agreeing with you I think.
Wild animals have to kill to survive.Have to haunt, find there way in a group .
They don't do that by loving and nice behavior but bij fighting, agression, showing off and rule over the others in that group.....That's without any feeling of compassion or something we would call shame..at least not as long as they are the strongest
That is an attitude I see in my son.
If there is a mail figure that is big..a lot of musscles and a big mouth ,saying and acting like the man knows everything ( similar behavior that he has??)Then I wonder what I m looking at..
Did you ever had he change to see your father in the presents of an other ps? And did you notice the same thing I did??


To answer your question...No I have never imitated my son. Of course I confronted him with the results of his behavior and show him the consequentses of it. I also told him I knew he was lying...But since I saw the documantary I told about, I stopt..So much became clear for me...
Forinstants..;

He is 26 years old now.
When his oldest son was born he wasn't yet 20 years old..He was 17 when I told him to move out. Half a year later he was in prison for at least a year. So he just came out of that prisontime when his son was born. He lived in a small village far away from a big town.
That time he worked as somebody who lays briks to make a street..( sorry don't know the english word for it ) I astemade he did this for ...mmm oke let's strech it..say; 4 weeks...
Now, my back yard is looking bad...The pavement is like the sea; all waves.
So he offers to make it as if it is new..But I know him..he can't do anything with his hands..He is a complete faillior if it comes to creating things.
So I said that it isn't nesecary. he was angry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
started to shoud at me..."you stupid woman, you think I can't do it, I was a bricklayer for 4 years...( sorry again , don't know the englich word, hope you understand it this way)

At that time I remembered the checklist..One of the items on there was...'No understanding of time and space' and realized that for him...4 minutes,4 hours, 4 weeks, 4months or 4 years....there is no difference....There is no knowledge of time!!!!
So he isn't lying in his own experience......He just doesn't know....
Tha't was an eye-opener for me...
it told me, I learned from that moment on that there is no need for a fight over this...I simply said 'no' to his offer...finish!
There is no room for discussion....I rule..This is my house he is visiting, nothing more,nothing less..
So when he went on, I told him that for the time he is a guest in my house MY rules go...Whatever he wants to do outsite of my house ,is his thing..he can make his own desicions, but here It's my desicion that matters...I added..And if you don't like or agree..Then you know your way out!
Clear, simple, not difficult to understand..No explenations, no wheeling or dealing..Just plain and clear; I set the rules and he can make his choice out of 2..( I don't think more is possible for them) It's stay and deal with it my way, or out and do whatever you please.

I have to add my friend, that I am now in the comfortable situation that he doesn't live here anymore..I was trained to deal with him for many,many years.
The few times I went to visite him, because of a birhtday , I made a point of it never to discuss anything that could bring problems..If he brought something up that could become difficult I concentrated on something else that happend with the children or the dog he had, or I offert his girlfriend to help in the kitchen..that way I could manage that situation. I even pretended sometimes ( bad bad) that I wasn't feeling well and had to go home before I was realy ill and to tired.

I realize that this is a luxorious situation in wich I am now...I couldn't have don it this way when he was living here still.

The only thing I always did,; I stopped focussing on him and focussed more and more on me.
I cant change anyhting'in anyone....Everybody has a discission to make on his/her own. So do ps. If I can't save him ,If there is no possibble way to get him out of this behavior, then the only thing that is left is save myself.
So If he calles me names..( whore, forinstants) then I can become angry , but only if I take him seriously...and I don't!!!I know I'm not a whore..So why should I believe him????
I also know I brought him up the right way..so there is no blame in that for me..... I know I was a good rolemodel for him and my other son..So no way he can insult me!!!
It's treu what you say about what ps do tell other people , even professionals believe him..Do I take them serious??No way..IF they were truly proffesionals they would have listen to me a long time ago..And if they weren't around at that time and they heard the story he told later on....I am here!!...They can come and check.... If they don't.....Ppfff Then I am sorry..then I say they are not proffesionals at all!!!Then they decide on gossip and hear say.....
So by dealing it this way I manage to stay on top of it all.

If there wil be ever somebody seriously wanting to listen and deal with my son..I will cooperate..If they want to hear more about his live story, I will tell and do whatever I can to make it happen for him ,though I don't believe it will.....

If it's oke by you I will answer your last question another time..it's 1.30 am at this time here..so time to go to sleep...
If I forget ( i'm very tired so my memory and concentration are bad now) ,please remember me of it , I want to adress it!

Hi Segaya,

Your post is interesting, I do find again many common things between your son and my father.
I also find new phenomena to analyze, try to understand.

I BELIEVE P'S EXERCISE THEIR BEHAVIOUR ALL THEIR LIFE:
A psyhco starts behaving badly in childhood and the more things he sees, the more perfect he becomes, the more he learns, the better he lies and the more immoralities he does.
My father is often praising himself about how he destroys people and often tells us how he instigates them and that those people don't even know it!
So, to P's it's like a sport, the more they do it, the worse and the more sophisticated they become.

NO TIME - SPACE FEELING WITH MY P EITHER:
He also says things like "for 2 years, bla bla" - but it was for like 2 hours...
He has no exact idea about where what happened and to whom!

MY P ALSO TALKED UGLY, BUT SAYS VERY SICK FANTASIES:
Yes, he too called his old mother a "whore", in front of my mother.
I see there is no difference between who is close or not close to him: mother, father, son, wife, borthers or cousins or... men on the street, cats, dogs, the mailman, his colleagues... We are all the same!
Loves nobody, shows no compassion and ... most importantly, he belongs to no group!
He's like a stray dog wondering around...
My P father calls me and my mom ugly names, but he also has sick fantasies.

Examples of sick fantasies... so many:
(1) he says my mother was sleeping with children when she was a student,
(2) he says my granma tried to poison him,
(3) he says I am having sex with my mother and our neighbours know it!,
(4) he says my mom is a lesbian,
(5) he says my mother's family is stealing money from us and instigating me against him, (6) he says I am a homosexual,
(7) he says I have: anorexia, epilepsy, autism, paranoia, schizophrenia, hepatitis C, parasites in stomach, eczema, nervous tics, etc.
(8) he says my aunt had sex with 3 men in a railroad car and taped it, made a porn movie
(9) he says than my uncle tried to kill my aunt, but he couldn't find her home, so he cut his own hands and wrote a big text with his own blood on the wall: "BASTARDS!"
(10) he says my mother hates my friends
(11) he says he was a secret agent
(12) he thinks many people around are secret agents (KGB, CIA) and that they are listening to us and collecting personal information (like where my mom works and what we buy at the shop) and they want to assassinate him
(13) once his car broke down and he said "I knew the secret agency is behind me back, they sabotaged me, this was an assassination attempt!"
(14) he says my aunt wanted to give my cousin for adoption to a pedophile woman who was having sex with little boys
(15) whenever I am in the bathroom my father shouts outside to people: "he is masturbating!"
(16) my father has imaginary "friends" whom he says he has met like 20 years ago and they told him "secrets" about my mom's family like: "they are drunk people", "they are serial killers", "they kill their own children"
(17) my father wants me to hate my mother's family
(18) my father recently made friends with people in my mom's family and he is forcing me together with them to "make friends" with them - of course, my mother's family believes him, because my father promised them a "good business", which they think is worth 15 million $
(19) my father says he has secret agent friends and they can get anything done for him
(20) he says that my mom is mentally ill and is disconnected form reality
(21) in my childhood I studied well but, he'd tell people that I "am repeating the year again" - never repeated, studied well! and alter in university years, said that "was kicked out"
(22) when I was very small, he brought me to doctors and told them that I was sick (physically)
(23) he talks about big sums of money that "we lost", "because of my mother", sums like 1 million $
(24) when something bad happens to me or my mom, like we are sick, then he's happy and invents a crazy story
(25) when something good happens, like I finish the university, then he tells people around that I was the worse student and that everyone has had enough of me and that I take drugs
(26) he threatens us to kick out of the house, because the thinks we want to kill him
(27) he tells me that my aunt had sex with all men from the town where she lives, he says she had sex in an office every day and that men were waiting in lines in front of the door
(28) my father kills plants, cutting down branches and leaves and says "ya gotta do it like that", if I criticize him, he talks dirty "ya @#$%, go to @#$%, this is how they do it, you fool!"
(29) he tells people that my mom attacked him in the kitchen together with my granma and tried to kill him
(30) he always thinks something disappeared from the house and someone took it (me, my mom, even neighbours!)
(31) he says that his brothers are stealing from him
(32) he makes scandals since the late 1980's that my mother's father (died many years ago) stole his brother's "expensive" shirt - not true
(33) he used to steal my toys in childhood and bring them to the kindergarten, they would not understand why we brought so many toys to them, I was crying then, he said: "if we don't give them your toys, they kick you out of the kindergarten"
(34) he also stone my toys at ages 3-4 and piled them up at his working place, he said "they gotta be repared" - but they were working
(35) he stone my mom's pencils and told her: "you @#$%, you stole my pencils!" and "these are very expensive pencils!" - were normal pencils that my mom had, very not expensive
(36) he tells people that my mother and I hate them, then people are afraid of me and my mom and then he tells me and my mom: "see? nobody loves you! the people are avoiding you!"
(37) he tells people that I am "antisocial" - crazy!
(38) he talks about inxistent extraordinary, sometimes paranormal events, big chances he had in life
(39) he goes to many different churches, different religions and prays everywhere, he also makes friends with all priests, once he wanted to open a disco near a church, but the priest didn't agree to sell him a building for that, so he got angry and told everyone that... "the priest was a communist secret agent"
(40) he told the priests that my mom and I "don't believe in god"
(41) he tells me that my mom is poisoning me
(42) he tells my mom that I "hang out with whores"
(43) he tells people about me that "you're impotent" - happens right in front of me, like when sitting at the table at a restaurant...
(44) he tells people that he spends many thousands of dollars on us
(45) says how worried he is about me and my mother, because we are very weak, stupid people and if he wasn't there for us, we would die or would live on the streets
(46) he says that his family "wants to know me", but when I meet them, he attacks me together with them with crazy things like "why didn't you go fishing with us last year" - then I tell them "I didn't know...", then other lies continue.
(47) he says my mom's family members often fight with axes, knives and hit each other, they get drunk - not true! they are very peaceful, normal people!
(48) when I was a kid I went to many sports clubs, where my mom and my grandpa signed me in, he went there every day, after me, told stupid things to people about me and I was very shy, I gave up all sports, changed sports clubs, but he came after me everywhere!!! and made me quit everywhere!!!
(49) he tells me that I am "suspicious" and compares me and also other family members to serial killers...
(50) he sometimes has ideas like "maybe you're not my son"

Gosh, it's so difficult...
Very ill indeed.

Sorry for the very long list, but this is just a drop form the big ocean. He's incurable!
As you see, often contradictory.

And, he has no idea about the consequences of his actions.

Some more additions, sorry, I can't help myself talking so much. But, I say these because maybe someone will find it useful.
Also, interesting for psychiatrists...

1 - What happens when 2 P's meet?
I have no idea, unfortunately I never had the chance to see my P meet another one. Finding another P is not easy, also because P's camouflage themselves, it is hard for me to tell who is a P. Because you have to live with them to know it.
I guess that anything is possible, they might love each other or they might not even observe that they are the same kinds of persons and might even try destroying each other, but if they would do so, it would go until the end of time!

2 - Psychopaths don't understand that in order to have something, they have to earn them
Like: a small child behaves nicely before Christmas, because he knows Santa will bring him something only if he's good
But, my father has no idea about anything like that: he wants everything, he even expects his enemies to venerate him

3 - No matter how much I would explain him something, it makes no sense to him!
He often doesn't understand why something happens in a certain way in a movie, like I remember he was watching a thriller, in which a woman was raped and was crying afterwards. My father was wondering why the woman was crying? He said something like "stupid crazy bitch"
He has no idea about in what state his relationships are. I mean he doesn't understand if he's close to someone or not or if the relationship is going well or not.
Sometimes I tell him, if he is fighting: "You have a bad relationship with that person, so accept it, don't blame anyone for the situation" -> but he doesn't understand the meaning of "relationship"

4 - Promiscuous
Often walks around naked in the house and talks dirty, talks about anything to anyone at any time, disgusting!!!
Has no limits, knows no intimacy.
Visits people in the middle of the night and stays there until 4 AM. Everyone sits like statues and he's keeping a long speech like Fidel Castro.

5 - Nothing changes him, not even bad events
People died in his family, he seemed to have gone through the events mildly. No major problems to him.
Remains always the same sicko.

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But, of course, psychiatrists don't understand this kind of person.
Very very few people know this behaviour well.

My psychologist told me "the problem is with you" and I went there for so long, telling her so many many things he did to me.
Didn't understand anything.

Hello james..
Isn't it true that your whole list is only hurtfull if you believe it?
I discovered that since I know what ps is that my son can't hurt me anymore..I know who's telling...I know he can't help himzelf..If other people want to believe him...please do..because if you do, your not he right person to be in my life!
If people know me for many years and respond to my sons stories ,they have never understood who I am..What I stand for..What my believes are......................

Hello Segaya,

The list describes my P very well, but if I'd like to make a complete description, I'd have to write a whole book. Could make a list of 200-300 specific patterns of behaviour.

But, indeed, describing him and thinking about him hurts me.

Since I know he is a P I feel more comfort.

But: if I start analyzing him and thinking about how can he be like that, than this hurts me.

So, it's actually the thinking much about him is that hurts me...

I think I need to find something more important than him. He is still the most important (though negative) element in my life.

You have something more important, I guess: your grandchildren.


James

Hay james,
If you read my posting about my grandchildren correctly, you will see that I didn't had contact for 3 years...The oldest is 5 years, the younger one still 3 years old....So where is the pleasure in that? I knew at the time she was living with my son, the children were hungry..... There was always shouting and violence in the house.I suspect he beated the children...........I went even to there MD to see if wecould remove the kids from their parents!!!
I see my oldest grandson 5 years old..full with worries... Too shy, doesn't make friends because he is scared. Doesn't know how to behave, wants to be sweet and doesn't know if sweet is sweet enough....This hurts!!!
Furthermore...The new contect there is now,is filled with worries about my son who wants to have costudy over them...So in me the question rises; Did my ex daughter in law want this contact because of the children OR because she wants information from me that will help her with the kids...I don't say she is wrong doing so..Maybe when I was in her place I would do the same things...A mother does everything for her kids.... But for me.....nice? Happy?....
No James, far from!

James:

You do have something in your life more important than your father--you and your sanity.