I wonder if the p are telling lies.......I will give an example of my son...I am curios of what others have to say about this;

When I got my son out of my house several years ago a friend of his came by and visited me.
He asked about my son and I think I was going on about him for too long. The friend became a bit agry with me and told me it was not more than logical that my son turned out the way he did.. It was my choice to adopt him, I took him away from his parents and didn't allow him to see his syblings.
I was shocked by his words because I gave birth to this son of my...26 days I was in labor and it took al whole day of hard work to get him into this world!!

I asked the friend what he meant and he started telling..there was no stopping his words, they came out like a stream of water, on and on he went....

He told me my son was adopted, I abused him for many years and neglected him seveer. He could go to school and come home again because I didn't allow him any play time.
My son wasn.t at school those times because , so this friend told me, he run to the capitel city of my country, which is about 70 km from the place we live. he walked around there all by himself till some teenagers saw him and made friends with him. ( this boy told me my son had to be around 9 years old by then)
He did some ( dirty ) jobs for them and got shot several times...
At that time I thought my heart would stop beating..my son...shot????????????
I told this boy ;'no way my son was shot ever!.he became even more angry and told me he saw the scares himself..ScareS...more then one???
He started telling me...'yes, on his head above the ear'.....This was a scare from a brick thrown down from a high appartment, fell on his head and wounded my son.
A scare right under his heart...this was from the chickenpocs. A big, hughes scare on his leg from an operation to remove a bullit...I told this young one that it was from an operation indeed, but because he broke his leg due to a scooter accedent.
he went on to tell more about the scares... In total he knew about 7 or 8 of them...
He told me also my son was a junk because I rather gave him harddrugs then be part of his live.

He topped it by telling me I had to be glad my son loves me so very much...he came back to me from his trip to America....
america...He went there? ( I knew offcourse this also was a I lie...but by now I was very opset and angry with this young friend of my son.)

I took my weddingpapers, here in my country we get a little book with the date of the marriage, the names of the married coplle, both there parents and, at the back of this book there is room for childrens names who might be born....
I showed this youngster this book to proof my son was indeed my son.
I also showed my passport. My sons name was in it, he could only travel in my presents.I showed him there were no stamps...No trips to America to a so called family that didn't even excist!


The boy was shocked by all this proof that my son is lieing. He didn't understand....

Later in time when I knew more about the condition p I was able to see why my son was a liar...I don't aprove of it, don't get me wrong..
My question is....
Do they know they are lieing OR is it true for them

To recognize a lie you have to be able to feel, to remember, you need a consiuos and emotions to know what a lie is or what's not.
So, what I like to know is how people on this forum think about this subject?

Hi Segaya

Someone said about psychopaths “if their lips are moving they are lying.” I found this to be true of my partner’s kid.

I think he lied for various reasons, usually to gain something for himself like getting money, sometimes just to draw attention to himself to be centre stage. I think the basis for their lies is to have control, even over the facts. They are trying to control everything around them. The world according to the psychopath.

Some of these lies can get the rest of us into trouble. My partner’s kid used to tell his gran his father and I did terrible things to him. Lies to neighbours about us not letting him have any food and that he was hungry. One neighbour thought she should contact social services to report my partner-this was before I was around. He lied to the counsellor to make out he was a good little boy but his father neglected him and never did anything with him because of me taking priority in his father’s life. He lied to the school about us not letting him do his homework and to us about not having any homework. About being ill at school to get sent home if he didn’t feel like being there or when he hadn’t handed in his work which was frequently. Lies about things he had stolen saying he had been given these things. Lies about things he had destroyed, blaming someone else in spite of the obvious.
I suppose there was a lot we didn’t hear about too.

He lied to friends and neighbours about his accomplishments, I know he accomplished nothing! He once told our friends he had been offered a part in the Lord of the Rings film and he was going to New Zealand for filming, it didn’t seem to occur to him that our friends would mention this to us! He told the psychologist he was a great skate boarder but forgot to mention he never even got the wheels on his skate board.
He would say something to one person and something completely different to another only seconds later. He didn’t seem to think that all these people would catch him out. Even when caught out his lack of conscience was staggering and he would compound the situation with lies about the lies.

Thinking about it his whole life is a lie. I gave up listening to him very soon after meeting him and challenged everything he said. He used to get furious that I didn’t believe him, his lies were laughable and he couldn’t see it.
I think James may identify with that.

Regards
Jan

Dear jan,
Thanks for your reply.
This is exactly what I mean .
WE know that they are lieying.......For people around them it is abvious...But, do they know.???

If we take it there is enough intelligence in the p's.... than they should be able to know...
Maybe it's not intelligence what makes that we know what a lie is...Maybe it is
conscience

When I confront my son with his lies he also gets ingrediblle angry and violent with me. I observed this for many, many years. This is why I ask this question indeed...
While observing my son,I tried to see what was going on inside of him.
More and more I got convinced that he doesn't even really, fully understands what is a lie and what isn't.
he believes what he say and do.he get's happy ( his kind of being happy) and angry at the right times. Is involved in what he is telling. Tells his stories with conviction.
This is what I read on this forum too. Isn't this the reason everybody believes the p?

There behaviour is similar, no doubt about...I can tell your storie..you can tell mine... Lady Crown can do the same thing, James can.
Every body who reads and writes on this forum knows it, feels it and probably knows by every new lie a p tells that it is a lie...We know by experience, we recognize it , we learned the hard way!
But, importend; We do have a conscience, we are able to memorize, we know how time and space work, having those skills we can let those skills and others work together and come to a conclusion.A way of behavior that we agreed on is appropriate.
The p's don't have it...So that's where my questions comes from..Do they lie.... in the sence of; do they know what a lie is...and do they lie on purpose.???

Hi Segaya

I think Ps do know they are lying that is why they get angry when confronted with their lies. BUT they have no conscience so their lies are not so much lies to them more a way of controlling others. We all know they hate not getting what they want and the lies are used to gain something either financial,phsysical or control.

I do think they know what a lie is but they don't care that it's a bad thing to do, it's a tool they use. To lie we have to know the truth or we couldn't say anything different to the truth.

Regards
Jan

Hi Segaya,

From observing the Psychopath who so rocked my life, he is definitely a pathological liar. But he is also keenly intelligent. I am convinced that his lies are goal-oriented. He says whatever he calculates will manipulate the situation to his advantage. That might be simply to gain attention, or it might be to instill some negative emotion in the listener.

I don't think he's too concerned about being caught out in a lie, mainly because he always assumes others are too stupid to see through him.

Once, as part of an elaborate story he was telling in front of a family group about a recent 'business trip', he claimed to have stayed at the Hyatt in Glasgow. I said in all my times there, I didn't remember there being a Hyatt. He said actually he couldn't remember the name of the hotel. Yeah, right!

When I've challenged him on lies when nobody is around, he gets abusive, but never admits the lie. He'll twist things around and say I'm psychotic, lost the plot, etc. He'll then accuse me of twisting things around.

He also isolated my wife and me from our daughter. That way, we would only ever hear his side of everything. He used to phone up saying "We've decided" such and such.

No, he knows the truth, but does not consider truth to have a higher value than a lie. he will choose eiether truth or a lie out of expediency.

I've just read this post and it's got me thinking. I realised some time after escaping the Psychopath in my life that MOST of our lives were a lie. But so plausable! There was little reason to not believe his lies, and he lied about the smallest most insignificant thing... I have wondered what of what he has told me over the years is true. I suspect very little.

Yes to lying to get his own way - whether that be me thinking what he wanted me to think, or some other more obvious reason. But I also believe he is so perverted that he was unable to lie about things that maybe he should have done! Or, was it that by telling me depraved things, he was implicating me in his depravity, subsequently making it more socially acceptable?

Interesting! Sometimes though, I think I think too much! lol

Haze :o)

Hi Haze,
Because english is not my own language I think I put the question wrongly.
I know they lie..big time...
The question I ask is more from their point of few.....Do they 'feel' they lie????
And again..I know I put it wrog again. I tis difficult to make a sentence here that makes clear what imean.
I will tell; My son is the psychopath in my life....When confronting him with his lies..he will definetilly deny he lies..And he does it with such energy it makes me wonder if , from 'his point of view', he is lying......
A patholical lier knows he/she is lying... Understand?
Segaya

hello all,
This whole discussion i s really about the pathological lying. pathological lying is part of OCD. Obsessive copulsive disorder. People suffering from tis disordr HAVE TO do thigns like washing hands 100 time sa day.. Check everyting a thousand times before going away.
This is not the image I have from psychopaths really. To have OCD their has to be a capabillity for fear and other emotions.

There is however an other possibillity; it is called pseudologica fantastica....
in this people who practise it lay about every possible thing in their lives.... On top of that they really believe it themselves. This way their and their surroundings history is changed to whatever thye like it to be.....
I don't know about others, but this is exactly what i see in my son. When telling his story, and someone tries to tell him differend he gets realy angry an agressive.
Segaya