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#687 - 10/30/02 01:17 PM Re: General Discussion


You know what helped me in the information about the NPD, was what happened to bring them to that place. What happens in their background that brings them to where they are today. That helped me so much.

Here is what I saw and how it related to me.

NPD actually has the same type of childhood experices I had. His personality type responded one way, mine another.

In the Verbally Abusive Relationship by Patricia Evans she talks about the abuser having Realty I and the victim Realty II. Realty 1 is power over. Realty 2 is personal power. This is really a basic explanation but "Power Over kills the spirit". "Personal Power" nourishes the spirit.

I was thinking this morning about Senihele's anology to the computer and the scan disk. And an event of how it applies to me and P#2.

When I was hired for the job I had when I first met P#2. If you can believe this, they actually told me their were two qualities I possessed over the other candidate. One was they felt I was very perceptive and the other was they thought I had a better temperment (meaning I could take more abuse) for the job.

I didn't "get it". I just said thank you, (I guess that was a complement) but I really didn't know what that meant for sure.

Okay, as I get to know P#2, my "scan disk" goes into operation. I start realizing he needs A LOT OF STROKING, LOT'S OF VALIDATION. I don't know how I knew, I just did. Well, it was part of the job. To be an encourager, supporter, cheerleader. And I did that. Not in an exploitive way, but an edifying way. You know, to build up and support. I wasn't dishonest about it either. I gave credit where credit was due.

Okay, lets go to P#2 now. His "scan disk" is also perceiving. BUT. . .his motive is to exploit.

And so goes the story inside stories. I can see clearly where it started and why. Now I know he WAS pulling on me. For validation, praise, admiration, adulation etc. all the things he needed mirrored back to him to reflect back to him how he saw himself.

Oh darn, I have to go get my son. . .be back later!
I appreciated your questions. . .they really did make me think.

#688 - 10/30/02 02:32 PM Re: General Discussion


Its so uncanny, the similar discoveries we make here on this forum. If you go to a thread called "Loving a Psychopath" on this forum and go to 4 posts from the end you will read my testimony regarding Patricia Evan's book: "The Verbally Abusive Relationship". Dianne posted a link (the last post on the thread) to the book and they describe the "ah-ha" awakening that readers experience when they first read the book. It was a monumental discovery for me as well.

As far as the NPD goes, there is a book called the Drama of the Gifted Child by Alice Miller that addresses children raised by NPD parents. There's a website as well, although I haven't gone there in a while. Anyway, this book was also helpful to me. Very much so.

So yes, the different realities of the abused and the abuser. Reality 1 and 2. I at one time believed that because the psychopath and I had similarities in our backgrounds that we were in the same reality. *sigh* So sadly and dangerously mistaken. But the point is we learned the difference and once we start we keep going and it becomes quest.LOL!

You wrote:

"And so goes the story inside stories. I can see clearly where it started and why. Now I know he WAS pulling on me. For validation, praise, admiration, adulation etc. all the things he needed mirrored back to him to reflect back to him how he saw himself."

Yes, me too. And I see that I was taught to do this from childhood. I equated pleasing with being loved. If I was making "them" feel good that was love to me. If I was successful in mirroring what they wanted. So so so sad. The minute I didn't succeed I was smacked right off that pedastal....devalued in a flash. And so the cycle revolved. Until I made the conscious choice to stop and step into the unknown territory of change and growth.

Wow finished, this is a great discussion!


#689 - 10/30/02 09:08 PM Re: General Discussion


Stumbling into the forum was my life preserver, my tharapist telling me I had GREAT INSTINCTS was a HUGE biggie and that book is up there with the life preserver. Tonight, I bought copies and put them in the hands of two of my friends that have been victims of P's. I made them put their hand on their heart and PROMISE me they would read it. Immediately. I promised the light would come on even after a few chapters.

I've already told my daughters about it and told them I would send them each a copy. And, I'm going to go see my darling grandaughters and have a heart to heart with them and be sure they get a copy too. If I have to, I'll bribe them to read it. And make em pass a test to be sure they did :-).

I'll check out the post that describes your "light bulb" moment! This is a wonderful book for those of us that have been abused so long we don't even feel it unless we're traumitized.

There was an account of a victim that made me more determined to keep working at this. It really spoke to me. It's on page 131. She said "I realize I kept forgetting the hurt and pain and from what I've read I know I was beginning to show the symptoms of a battered wife. I'm shocked".

I'm so glad you all told me to go back to the Battered Womans center. I have one more visit and then I get to join the group session. I SO did not want to go. Now, I'm eager to take advantage of all the help that's offered. After I got through the feeling of shame of being battered and then after reading the book . . .it is liberating. After being in this bondage all these years, I see a way out!

I don't remember who posted but I remember these words after I reported I bolted and ran before my first appointment. It was something like this. "Go back finished. I felt the same way. I didn't look like them, act like them or in the same socio/economic class as them. But inside, we were all the same". Thank whoever gave me those encouraging words because they kept me moving forward.

I've told my daughters that I'm seeking help on this issue (they know nothing of P#2) but P#1 is thier dad. I shared the above statement from the book with one of my daughters today. I was telling her all the times I took it and after awhile it was like nothing. My way would be to just absorb it the best I could. They lived with me when P#1 was at his worst. They know he is evil and cruel. They observed and heard things children should NEVER hear or observe. We (me and the kids) all stuck together. It was us against him. When he would abuse, they would say "are you all right" and I'd say. . .yes! I'll be fine. She brought that up today and I told her it was a survival skill, the only way I knew to survive it. I also shared this with her. This is the behavior I modeled for you because I didn't have these tools to defend myself. (where was that Patricia Evans back then?) That's why I want them to read the book just to be sure and not even to accept "little abuses" not even a little.

I guess you can tell I'm more than happy to have this information.

Oh, you'll love this! I had a counseling session (battered woman center) this afternoon. I'm recommending this book to the counselor. Told her there was a chapter for the therapist. Also, we discussed the NPD. She's an intern and had JUST read some information on this personality disorder. I told her I would get the title of the book I'm reading here on the forum and call her with the title.

Actually, she is really pretty helpful. She was talking about schemas (spelling?) I asked her what is a schema. I didn't find that in my dictionary. She told me that was a core belief about oneself. Wow! I'm learning. A little here a little there.

I will have to pick up the book by Alice Miller. I feel P#2 really falls in that catagory. It is helping me put things in place. I'll try a search engine and see if I can find the web site.

Here was another piece in the puzzle I saw.

(I've had to freeze frame events, discect and put it under a micrascope to I can evaluate it and see the where the peices fit).

When I shared my feelings with him, and he started backing up, an emotion he wasn't prepared for. . . love. . .was being expressed. Something that is not in his "data bank". He had used up all his disguises at this point. NOW. . .FEAR kicks in.

He HAD to do what he did. There was no other choice. He was, as the message on the computer screen says "running dangerously low on resourses".

But, I didn't know that. What I felt was shock!!!!!!!!!

"How could you bring me to this point and reject me?" and tramua!!!!!! to the max!

I NEVER experienced the rug being pulled out from me life that in my ENTIRE life. NEVER! I was entirely blindsided. He had built my trust up to the point I felt I was safe. Here was a person who I could trust. A friend.

I think you posted the Betrayal Trauma test and I remembered. I took that test on another web site and I scored 24 out of 30 I think (that's a real high score). Then. . . I became his loyal subject.

And then:

There was no disguise for his lack. Now, I was asking for things he COULD NOT give me. He had given me his best in creation/beauty. When things started getting "real" and "honest" , I can see where the blip on the screen came and he shut down. NOW I SEE! If we have a REAL relationship, he had to come off his pedestal, I have to come off mine. HE CAN'T give up his persona, he can't, IT'S HIS PROTECTION,HIS DEFENSE against the world. He's just not wired that way.

I don't WANT a personna. I want to be myself.

Henceforth from there. . .conflicting systems. . .forever.

>And so the cycle revolved. Until I made the conscious choice to stop and step into the unknown territory of change and growth. <

Somedays I actually feel excited about it. Especially as you say. . .in our exploration. . .we make discoveries. And you know what? I think we are going to make it, don't you?

Thank you so much for sharing. . .
finished :-)

#690 - 10/30/02 11:24 PM Re: General Discussion

Wow! Wow! Wow! You've come a long way, baby!!!!

Now that you've crossed over into healing, there are so many resources for you and terrific books to read. All of Alice Millers books I highly recommend, Bradshaw's are excellent. It's nice to see someone so excited about healing as I feel. It takes courage. All of this is generational, you can go back generations in your family, and see all kinds of familiar patterns. Bradshaw's Family Secrets is a great book for untangling and making sense of your own behavior. Being able to start processing hidden memories from your unconcious, Making sense of your whole life. There are many good books on sexual abuse and how it effects you. Other books to read are on PTSD. How basically we all are suffering the effects of PTSD from abusive childhoods. The P's included.

I hope I haven't overwhelmed you with too many books to read, I've just never seen anyone besides myself, have the lightbulb come on so fast.


#691 - 10/31/02 12:24 AM Re: General Discussion

hope I haven't overwhelmed you with too many books to read, I've just never seen anyone besides myself, have the lightbulb come on so fast.

Now that sounded a little arrogant, didn't it? My apologies to the everyone on the forum, it was not my intention.


#693 - 11/02/02 07:52 AM Re: General Discussion

#695 - 11/06/02 04:32 PM Re: General Discussion

Thank you Diane. . .

I had to take a break after my last post.

One of my shortcomings is I have a tendency to take things personally so I had to step back a few days to sort things out.

The information, support, validation and encouragement have been a lifeline to me as well as the connection I have felt to many of my fellow survivors.

Thank you for being here. And directing me to that web site! I have found the man. . .and another helpful piece. In searching and finding answers, it demystifies the what and why. I would have never found closure any other way.

Again. . .my grateful heartfelt thanks
. . .finished

#696 - 11/07/02 03:05 PM Re: General Discussion

Hi finished, now that you have read the material do you still think your x is a Psychopath? Or a Psychopath with strong NPD elements. The dividing line is the conscience and if he has one.

#697 - 11/07/02 03:09 PM Re: General Discussion

I removed a thread from the forum and feel that it may have caused some members to have some problems. I apologize for any hurt feelings.

Life as an Admin. is not an easy thing to do. Sometimes there are decisions that need to be made that might not make everyone happy. I try my best and I am probably a bit overly protective of the group.

Again, I apologize for any pain that this has caused.

#698 - 11/07/02 03:12 PM Re: General Discussion

From: persistent

The Psychopath's Maxim

Hi all,

I'm a little too tired to post anything substantial tonight but wanted to sum up my personal views on our common experiences as follows (it crossed my mind on my way home from the gym tonight):



I hope everybody is doing well.


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