Hello everyone,

I am new to the forum and new to the knowledge that the significant other I have shared the last 19 years with, is possibly a Psychopath. I have posted a brief run down of my story over in 'Raising Public Awareness' under the post 'Psychopaths and their victims'. I say possibly because he hasn't been diagnosed as one (if diagnosed is the right word), but from what I have read of Dr Hare's work, he fits the bill with the exception that he has not committed murder (to my knowledge).

The last few weeks for me have been terrible. The realisation of what he is, of accepting that he really has done all the awful things I thought he had, but he wouldn't let me believe (how did he manage to pull the wool over my eyes for so long?). The realisation he was and is duping everyone in his path (as he has done for the whole of his life), and now I am finally able to see a chink of daylight in the form of FUTURE.

I have started to embrace that I DO have a future, that it is there waiting for me to grasp it with both hands. I will not let go of the knowledge that I don't have to just exist any more. That I can and will LIVE my life to the full. The Psychopath had five other victims in the form of his (and my) biological children. My family and I have started looking into the help they need to overcome the abuse they have suffered at his hands (sexual, physical, verbal, emotional) and I feel confident (this changes daily at the moment) that I, with the help of my family, therapy, and good friends, can pull them through it. I believe that I too will recover from the abuse I suffered at his hands.

And I am finally accepting that I am not a monster. He told me so many times that I was that I really believed it. I have moments where I still do believe that I might have been, but then I think of how much I love and want to protect my children, and I can see that it's him, and not me, that is the monster.

Alison.

Hello Alison

I read your experiences on the other posting and really feel for you and your children. You have all been through just so much - and for so long. Because of my experiences I can relate to several things you have described that occurred and I don't quite have the words to describe the chill that these things evoke in me. I am just so very sorry that you and your dear children have had to know these things...He may not have murdered, but he has certainly taken lives! But as you said, not forever. You are very strong and, thankfully have support, and already have accomplished much. First, you have prevailed. Not only that, you have already removed him from your house. As I was reading your post it did cross my mind 'how is she going to get him out of her space?'. Then you wrote you have already done this. It was a real relief to hear this, for all your sakes.
I too am new to the knowledge and to this forum, but have found here incredible support from others who truly understand and care. I just want to wish you and your children well for the journey ahead.

Best wishes,
Sapphira

Sapphira, thank you. We are all much happier now. It's early days I know, but the improvement within the dynamics of our family has been huge. What has also been interesting is the number of 'upset' times have reduced so much that we can pin point times when someone was upset...rather than a whole umbrella of sadness. It's things like this that help me look forward to the future, and be glad we are not suffering at his hands (to the same degree) any more.

Thanks again,
Alison.

Hi alisonbelinda


I too am new. It's been two years now that my children and I have been in "no contact" mode from their mother and my ex-partner. Here is something that I just wrote (in fact tonight) asking a Dr. who deals with us and tries to help us heal and learn to understand why these people do the things they do..

My Children and I have been in “no contact” from their mother and my ex for two years. Our lives are returning to some sense of normalize after 17 years of dysfunctional tumor. Both of my children (both teenagers) want nothing to do with her and I fear the day she might try to find us. What I have achieve after she left both the children and myself is as follows:

I have my self-assurance back
I had to take anti-depression and am now
off of them.
I no longer feel like I live under a black cloud.
I use to drink a lot when I was in the relationship,
I now only drink in moderation.
I like who I am, before I didn’t know who I was.
Of course every family has it share of disagreements,
But now it’s staged for empathy, understanding,
acceptations and always with the ideal to solve
Our problems as a family. No one rules here with
a iron hand, we live as a democratic society, and each
person has a vote.
I feel that my children are much happier now
I know that I am.

I don’t want to lose this because of the person in question, who I know will try “again” to get back into my children’s life. They have written, talk with her on the phone more then twice, and tried to explain to her, how they “don’t want her back”. They don’t return any reply when she mailed (received last year by a forwarding old address) them birthday cards. But this person refuses to take no for an answer. What can I do to insure our safety and peace of mind? She doesn’t know our homes phone number or were we live, which is what both my children and I want. We are still in hiding from her, which is what both my children, and I want! Will this person ever give up and just accept our decision as inevitable. Do people with personality disorders ever just give up? And leave those people along who, just want to be left along? The price for this decision is “high”, very high indeed, but it’s 100 percent better then what she put us thru! God, knows thats the truth!

I know for a fact that life will get better for you as it has for my children and I..

Hello Sag

It's good to hear that you have no contact with your ex and you and the children are finding a happy family life.

Maybe your worries about being found by your ex are because you are afraid of the old life returning rather than it will really happen.
Can you send any letters she sends back to her with "return to sender, no-one of that name at this address."? or something similar to let her know you are not receiving anything she sends.
Why do the children speak to her on the phone or write to her as that only prolongs the sitution gives her some sort of control and involvement. I would say no contact should mean no contact whatsoever.

She can only come back into your lives if you let her and as you are such a tight knit family she wouldn't find it easy as people like her need to take individuals to work on, there is no way she would tackle you as a group.

As for her giving up trying, she may well do that if she gets her letters back unopened but I know how tencious people like this can be when they want something.

I hope you keep moving on like you are.

Regards
Jan

Hello Jan,

"Maybe your worries about being found by your ex are because you are afraid of the old life returning rather than it will really happen."


I for one, will never “allow” the old way of life to return. It’s really my children (both teenagers) that might be more at risk from her manipulation. I believe for sure that my oldest (17 years of age) will never allow her into his life, in fact after she left, He was the only one happy about it! It been very hard for him to open up to me after so many years of abuse from her. This is of course my fault, being blind for so many years to her manipulated way. I know that he love me, just doesn’t always like me. No one said that being a parent is easy and then being a single parent can make our job harder, Because of my love for him I will keep being the best parent that I can for him even with own short coming.. If we really love someone, we will try very hard to make and or assist them in making the right decision for their life. But my 13 year old is a good person with a kind and loving heart. Just right for the picking. He too, wants nothing to do with her at this time but fear he “might” sometime in the future give her another chance. So I guess its him I worry about the most. I know we can’t make all the decisions for our children on their road to autonomy, in fact what I try to do is teach them all that I have learned about people who have personality disorder and how to recognize the traits.

"Can you send any letters she sends back to her with "return to sender, no-one of that name at this address."? or something similar to let her know you are not receiving anything she sends."


This of course will be done, but is not necessary due to the fact she doesn’t know were we live at least at the present time. As for trying to communicate this to her is fruitless. They have try again and again in every mean possible with no luck. Strange thing about this is that she only tries to mail them something on their birthday, both born in July, Can you guess what month she was born in?


"Why do the children speak to her on the phone or write to her as that only prolongs the sitution gives her some sort of control and involvement. I would say no contact should mean no contact whatsoever."

Sorry guess I should have explained, The children tried to call with her on the phone in the beginning after she left (May 22,2006) but I guess it was too painful and they just refused after a couple of time. I didn't "force" them to, believing that because of their ages, they should have that right too. God only know that I myself hated to talk with her.


"As for her giving up trying, she may well do that if she gets her letters back unopened but I know how tencious people like this can be when they want something."

Yes Jan, that is what I was hoping as well, that maybe she will get the message when her letters/cards are returned unopen. I guess what bugs me the most is that if someone told me to "back down" I would! In fact Jan, I did!



7/29/06, [Telephone conversation] (Her) "I don't have to talk with you (me) any more"! (reply me)"Sorry, did you say that you don't want to talk with me anymore?" (Her) "yes". (reply me) "OK, that's alright, I can live with that. Goodbye then". (Her) no reply... I hung up the phone and that was the last time I spoke with her... True story....

She told me to go away and I WENT away....
She gave me a way out and I TOOK it....
She close that door and I ALLOW it...

I never regretted that decision...

Sag

Sag, thank you for your words. I can see that while you still fear contact from this Psychopath, you are getting stronger as time goes on. I take great hope from this!

It is so good to hear from people who are surviving the problems Psychopath's have inflicted upon them.

Thank you,
Alison

Here's a strange thing! I am typing the letter 'pee' in and it's showing up as 'psychopath' when I click 'submit'. How odd!

Hello Sag,

I can relate to these concerns that you have and would like to share a little of my life regarding this matter of letters.

The long term Psychopath in my life was my mother. I left home at 18 and she made my life a misery because I wasn't in touch with her. She had ministers, psychologists even the police turn up because she was "so concerned about me". When my house was raided because of things she alledged, I moved away to an unknown address. Yet despite all my efforts to keep my whereabouts unknown she still tracked me down, through a man who was so scared of her, felt she "was capable of doing anything" that he revealed where I was.

So again she was at me but living at the other end of the country from her I knew she wasn't likely to arrive very often. Though I knew it was likely the day would come. And it eventually did. I didn't invite her into the house and she got some of the message. However, after that, instead of turning up she sent letters. Lots of them, 3, 4 or 5 letters every week, and this went on for almost 4 years. I was being flooded by her, even though she wasn't there and it was very stressful mentally. This wasn't about her "concern" for me; it was plain harrassment and her letters had become increasingly abusive.

So I contacted lawyers and was told that it was no simple matter to prevent her from contacting me because we had "lived under the same roof" in the past. The lawyers, on the whole, saw it very simply and just told me not to open them. Her behaviour was a continuation of a very painful history of abuse and I needed some boundaries or I would go insane, but how to do this when she wouldn't respect my rights? They didn't appreciate my distress was more about being unable to stop getting them, than what they actually said.

Obviously I never responded to the mail, but I felt so helpless about what to do. Not only only the days I got a letter, but all the time. I needed to create some space around me and by then I had a small child who I was sure I didn;t want around her. But I couldn't get her to change her behaviour and any efforts I made to do so would be giving her what she wanted - contact with me. I thought about sending them back unopened, and if they had only come occassionally, I may well have, but because there were just so many... The bottom line was I didn't want to engage myself with her at all, and it seemed that even sending one back was breaking this "rule" I had given myself. She'd be getting what she wanted and there was no guarantee it would actually change anything. It drove me nuts!!

Then I realised that even if she stopped sending the letters I'd live constantly wondering when they would start again - I'd be a prisoner. I had to find a way of taking charge that didn't involve any contact with her, or any expectation she would change, otherwise, even from a distance, she would drive me insane.

So in the end I got a box and determined not to open one of her letters again. Ok, I couldn't stop her sending the letters, but I could control what I did with them. In the beginning it felt like a very meagre stand, a small step, but I soon began to feel quite releived and eventually look back pleased and empowered. As my son grew older I made sure I checked the mail and removed her letters, leaving him the joy of collecting the mail "safely". And this is what I did. I always allowed myself the option of at some later date, sending them all back if I wanted, but I never did. I also told myself that at least keeping them they might come in handy if we ever did end up in court and I could prove my unwillingness to engage with her by showing they remained unopened.

As time passed in this way I got stronger. For about three years all was ok, until I received an email from her, which totally spooked me and I felt like I was starting all over again. But really I wasn't. I thought hard and I was stronger then and curiously enough, it provided me the opportunity to finally convince her, and those around her, that I really was to be left alone. I have not heard from her since... And it's fantastic!

You know, I never sent the letters back. I didn't need to. At one point, because there were just so many, I finally opened a few, carefully, only one in each day. And they were terrible. So I burned a large part of them. The remainder I have in a long-unopened drawer.

What I realised, looking back, and your post reminded me, is that they were small steps that I took, and that the initial period without contact may be the best opportunity to draw internal lines. And it's really the internal lines that count because these are where our real power lies - within ourselves. If she comes back then you will be your strongest and prepared. But in the meantime you can have some peace and freedom in your new world without her.

I wish you the best.

Sapphira

Sapphira, you have such amazing strength.

I am facing the 'letter-box-hell' thing at the moment. My solicitor is writing to his to get him to stop writing letters to me. My solicitor's stand on it is that it's harrassment (which it is) and that it alone is grounds for divorce. Obviously you are talking your mother, so it isn't the same, but it was still harrassment, and it's a sad thing you have had to endure that, on top of everything else, in your life.

I love how you dealt with the letters sent to you. I am still sending them onto the solicitor, but if it does carry on (I am hoping it doesn't) I will do the same as you and find a safe drawer/box to put them in.

Alison

Strange but as I read this thread, I keep thinking about the movie “Fatal Attractions” when the Psychopath women told her ex-lover.. “I Won’t be ignored!”. Also how any means of communication; phone, letters, emails and now cell phones will be used as a weapon by a Psychopath to manipulate, control and or a type of harassment by them. I see this over and over again when ever I talk with people trying hard to “just be left in peace” from their parents, child(s), ex-husband, well the list go on...

Thanks Sapphira for your thread. This is what worries me the most, not for myself. But for my children’s future concerning their mother. Please allow me to tell you something that my ex psychopath once asks Me..

Years ago, one day returning home from work when I just walked thru the door and (she) then out of nowhere asked me this question; “Sag, why do people keep taking my children from me?” [History: sorry I forgot to tell the members that she had lost custody of two other children from a previous marriage, who also want nothing to do with her as of the present date. Yes dear readers she had done all this before and I didn‘t see this coming??? Love is indeed blind] Well her question was just out of the blue and I could see that it trouble her. Well, I just told her I didn’t know? I mean to say that she didn’t have a clue (well, neither did I at the time) as to why she kept losing her children and why they wanted nothing to do with her. Now I do...

Yes, Alison..

We all do keep getting stronger as time goes on. It’s like we awake from a deep sleep only to find ourselves in a “living nightmare”.. We the lucky ones go from victimization to be strong survivors. Sorry to say but some don’t make It..

What really concerns me is how many people (family, business man, etc) are sitting down to dinner, sharing their food, home, beds and lives with people they don’t really even know. The fact the psychopath are so good at concealing their true nature that we go thru years with them and not see all the harm that they do to the people who trust, love and care for them. People, who even at the time of this writing, don’t even know what a “psychopath” is? What a shame it is that many of us, refuse and or won’t awake from our slumber until our universe come crashing down upon us and our children..

Yes Alison, many of us do get stronger! But knowledge has its price.

Sag

Hi Sag, and everyone!

We are back from our mid-week break and the second I saw the house I was shaking. I know I have a general fear of Psychopath contacting me, and this is something he keeps on doing via letter, despite the fact the solicitor repeatedly telling him not to. He is acusing me of so many things I am just not capable of. It takes me a full day to recover from such contact and he always manages to disguise his letters to look official. I am going to have all suspicious mail vetted from now on. I really can't cope with even this level of contact.


I know I wont be able to speak to him for some time, despite social services and him telling me otherwise. I KNOW I can't do that. I feel like I have woken up from years and years of trauma that I haven't been allowed to feel...and I am struggling with how that feels now, all in one go.

The few days away were a welcome break, but the coming back is hard. It's like I have forgotten how to cope, or, I have forgotten how to deal with my feelings.

Alison.

Welcome back alisonbelinda!

“It's like I have forgotten how to cope, or, I have forgotten how to deal with my feelings.”

Thank God that this is only a stage that we go thru!

I didn’t know how to deal with my feeling, because of the flood of these emotions. In short alisonbelinda, we call this our emotional debt(s). Something that needs to be dealt with “slowly”. For me, it’s been 2 years and just today, I was able to forgive her and forgive myself as well. Something that I knew that I had to do to move on with my personal life. Please understand that forgiving her was the hardest thing I believe I ever had to do. But when forgiving her I then can forgive myself. When this happen (yes, just today) I cried and tremble like a child. Imaged in my mind a white dove on my finger and let it fly away, then prayed that she would someday find help and gave this burden to God, in short alisonbelinda. I release this one emotional debt. Remember alsonbelinda that time does heal all wounds but these wounds (feeling/emotional debt) need treatment (understanding the pain, hurt and emotional turmoil) and then the cure/healing begins in the understanding and releasing these emotional debts...

You haven’t “forgotten how to deal with your feeling”. You just have so many to deal with at this time and yes you will learn how to deal with these “feeling” when the time is needed too. When walking down a path its better to pick up only one stick at a time, for there are so many sticks to pick up.

I hope this helps you, and please take care...

Sag

Hello Alison

I hope you still managed to get some pleasure from your break despite coming back to those awful feelings. I ended up in hospital during my weekend away-but that’s another story.

Do you give the letters your husband sends to your solicitor? I presume you do as they are a great weapon to use against him. That’s a good idea to get your mail vetted so you don’t have to read them?

Why do the social workers say you will eventually be able to talk to him, why would you want to if the only reason is to arrange access for the children? Surely they are the mediators to avoid you having to do it. From what you say I don’t think I would have much faith in social workers and hope the new one does the job better.

That’s a good sign that you have feelings, even if they are negative at the moment that will slowly change as you get more confidence in dealing with the situation. At least you have something to work on rather than being totally numb.

Let us know how you get on with the arrangements for the children and the social worker.

Regards
Jan

Sag, thank you. You have great strength to forgive! I am not sure I ever will at the moment. I know we as humans should not be ones to condem, as that is God's job and it would suggest we were perfect! Which I know I am not.

Jan, are you all better now? Oddly enough, I contracted food poisioning on Tuesday so spent Wednesday and Thursday feeling incredibly poorly! All fine now though and the holiday provider are 'looking into it'.

Letters from Psychopath to the solicitor, yes. And I am going to get a friend of mine to open anything I am not sure about. She knows what we are going through, so she's a great person to help with this.

The break was good otherwise and the kids had a fantastic time. I enjoyed it too...between bouts of throwing up! lol.

I think social services are looking for a quick fix with our case. The social worker is always going on about how busy he is, and despite him being our worker for the last 3 months, he still hasn't completed the basics of the original case conference. As for why they want me to speak to Psychopath, I assume it's so they can say they've done a good job? I can't help but feel they are just ticking boxes as I know they aren't listening to me or the children (they are hanging on every word of the Psychopath though).

Sorry for seeming a little jaded!

I hadn't thought about my negative feelings as being a good thing, but yes! They are! They mean I am HUMAN! And they also mean I know I am working through my feelings, which is such a good (but hard) thing.

Alison.

Hai Alison,
I am reading you postings for a while now. I was ill and wasn't able to reply in a good way because of that.
Now I am reading all these things about forgiveness and want to say something about it.

Forgiving somebody has nothing to do with that person and all to do with yourself.
We have to learn to let go of the person who was the psychopath in our lives but forgiven is someting totally different.
If you ( general speaking) are so angry that it is consuming you or you are so sad that it is a big part of who you are in live then it doesn't hurt the person who is the psychopath.. ( or for that matter 'the other person'.) The only one who is in trouble because of it is you and maybe the ones who are living with you. The psychopath doesn't even know.
So if you are crying , he doesn't know..if you are hurting, he doesn't know, if you are grieving, he doesn't know....
To forgive is nothing more or less than let go of all those feelings.
Doing so you will make space for new feelings, new experiences and new knowing.
This is something what is necessary to get on with living. And if you are ready to do so and after you have let go you will see it will work for you. Creativity gets more room to grow, Worries are easier to deal with, there is more room for new things to happen and the relationships with other people , including children will improve a great deal.
So as 'he' won't notice your hurting, crying and grieveing, he won't know about your new gained freedom also..
The ones who are going to benefit are you yourself and your children...

I am so glad you found the forum and please keep on writting for it is a great way to get your thoughts in order and get new contect with people who will understand.
regards Segaya

Segaya, that makes such a lot of sense, thank you.

I think as regards 'him' I feel so many different feelings. Confusion at the years we've spent together and realising I have no idea what part is 'real' (for want of a better word) and what isn't. Actually, I am not sure what I mean by 'real' for *I* know what happened, even if I wasn't allowed to actually feel my own feelings at the time. I still know what happened, and now I am able to truly believe what happened, happened! I am quite shocked at some of the things that are cropping up...things he has told members of my family about me, and lies he has spread between them about them. And all the time he sat back and seemed to enjoy the trauma and hurt he was causing! I guess what felt like his enjoyment at the time, which I worked hard at not really seeing (because it was so horrible) was genuine enjoyment on his part. We have had a few jaw-dropping moments of incredulousness recently, and I am sure more will come to light, as we all start to recover.

My biggest feeling regarding him at the moment is revulsion. I do seem to be going through the mire of emotions!

As regards to making the children and us all happier with less negative emotion around, you have that spot on. I am trying SO hard to not dwell in victim mode, and to be honest, the children make it easier to keep out of it. So much so that it's early mornings and late evenings that I suffer most - at times when I am on my own, and the children are all in bed.

I do feel much better than I did on Friday (thank goodness!) and Stranngeellllyyy enough, your mention of creativity growing, I have just completed a commission and will be picking up the framed results tomorrow! Unfortunately, it's taken some time to get back into my 'work' but I am getting there. I know you meant more than the simplistic view I am making of creativity, but it's a good thing on my part that I am getting back into it in its literal sense.


There are going to be lots of ups and downs for me, I know. But I do feel that I am moving in the right direction...even if I do take a few steps back on a fairly frequent basis. I am so glad to have my feelings, even if they do feel crippling at times, but being allowed to (and allowing myself) to feel is GOOD!

And I do hope you are feelings much better now.

Best wishes,
Alison.

Hi alisonbelinda,

"I am trying SO hard to not dwell in victim mode, and to be honest, the children make it easier to keep out of it."

One thing that kept me going in the beginning was for the sake of my children so much that I stated understanding that because of them it was a great source of strength for me. That I came to understand that our children are our saving grace. Interesting that unless they (Psychopath) can use them (children) as some type of leverage they show little interest in them. What we find sometimes is just how important our children really are to us. Again they (Psychopath) miss out in what is really good and wholesome in life. Funny in a way, don't you think? Well anyway, not a day goes by without me trying to show some attention (validation); not a day without some kind of affection (stroking)and always try to remember to tell them just how much we care for them and love them..

I do this little trick and God how good it makes me feel when I see a smile on that young face:

Hey son!!
I forgot to tell you something!
What dad?
I forgot to tell you just how much I LOVE YOU!
(sons smile)....

God how that makes me feel when I catch them off guard like that!!

Sag

Ah bless you Sag! I can imagine his face was a picture for you to treasure, forever :o)

This is my final post on psychopath-research.

Thank you for the pleasure of your company, and I wish you all positive healing from the Psychopath in your life.

Kind regards,
Alison.

Hello Alison

I'm sorry to hear you won't be coming to the forum again, I do hope that you have gained some comfort and support while you were going through such difficult times. I hope it is because you are feeling a little more confident and ready to move on.
Please come back anytime if you feel you need to share any problems that may arise in the future, we will be here to offer support.

I do hope we hear from you at some point and let us know how you are doing.

Best regards
Jan

I hardly know what to say because I've only recently realised the man I thought was my husband is a Psychopath. I'm burdened with legal, emotional and children problems - before I try to figure out what drew me to him and why I stayed so long.

The legal stuff is damaging because of the conservative laws in my country. Believe it or not, we married, he had been divorced, it was difficult but I kept going because of children and also, for a while, thinking I was the problem. I finally managed his departure late last year. We eventually entered mediation because our one-on-one meetings were getting nowhere and he was trying to proovke me.

He announced dramatically that he'd taken legal advice and our marriage was not valid because of his previous divorce. It was very complicated. He pretended he'd only just heard. But I phoned his ex-wife who told me she'd warned him eight years ago to re-marry me in our country because her lawyer had told her so. He knew all along and deceived me into thinking I was his wife when in fact I was not. In our country it affects all sorts of rights and entitlements.

It took me years to manage a separation. I've become a trained mental health professional, probably in response. But this was devastating. He basically pretended to be married to me, held me in contempt for being fooled, and has financial advantages because of our laws.

I'm worried about our teenage children being manipulated by him, espeically my daughter who is much younger than her age and very vulnerable. He has a high profile and his brother is actually a judge in my country. I can hardly beleive he knew in 2000 that our marriage wasn't valied and didnt tell me. I understand but I am really feelig upset.

hello Eva,
And of course a welcome to our forum.
On top of all these problems, to live in a country that doesn't provide in taking care of the women most be very hard.
I hope you will feel save hear and keep writing about how you are progressing with all these things considering the marriage and the children. How many children do you have and
In what way are you worried about them? Sorry for that question but there are so very many ways they can be taken advantege of.
Hope to hear from you soon, Regards Segaya

Hello Eva
Welcome to the forum. It sounds as though you have many years dealing with your problem and thoroughly worn down. I have been doing a bit of research and found the following information. I have changed the name of the country where you live to (your country) this is to ensure your privacy.
Do you think your ex is telling you these things because he wants to hurt you further and has accurate information. I would him like to produce the written information from a solicitor before I would totally believe him. He is obviously devious and a liar so how do you know what to believe?


You will only be free to marry if you either
• are single (never married)
• are widowed
• have a State Annulment
• have an (your country)divorce
• have a foreign divorce that is recognised in (your country)
and your intended spouse either
• is single (never married)
• is widowed
• has a State Annulment
• has an (your country) divorce
• has a foreign divorce that is recognised in (your country)
If you knowingly marry in any other circumstances other than those outlined above, you will be breaking the law and your "marriage" will be bigamous.
If either or both of you have been married before, you should make this clear to the Registrar when giving the three months notification. You may have to bring some additional information with you.
If you are widowed
If you are widowed, you will be required to produce your deceased partner's death certificate for the Registrar.
State Annulment
A State Annulment is a High Court declaration that although you went through a marriage ceremony at one stage, a legally valid marriage never actually existed. There are a number of grounds for a State Annulment, for example, lack of free consent or non-consummation. You may be required to produce your Decree of Annulment to the Registrar.
Legal status of Church Annulments
It is very important to note that a Church Annulment does not end a legally valid marriage. Therefore, you are not free to remarry after a Church Annulment only. You will only be free to remarry if your partner dies or if you have a State Annulment, an (your country) divorce or a valid foreign divorce.
An (your country) divorce
If you have an (your country) divorce, you will be required to produce your Divorce Decree (Decree Absolute) for the Registrar. Only a divorce allows remarriage - you may not remarry if you have a Judicial Decree of Separation or Legal Deed of Separation only.

I don’t know whether any of this helps.

The forum is a great place to get the support of understanding people as all the members have or are dealing with problems like yours. Please feel free to ask any questions, it does help if you can write down all the things that are causing you stress even if you don’t want to post that information here. Just putting feelings into words makes it a little clearer to help you know how to deal with the problems.
Best regards
Jan

Hello Eva
I found some more information for you. I hope you can find something there that will help put your mind at rest.
I forgot to say in my last post that I'm very impressed that you have gone on to have a great career, what a choice!

Regards
Jan

#Grounds for divorce
A court will grant a divorce if:
- the spouses have lived apart for a period or periods amounting to at least four years during the previous five years; and

- there is no reasonable prospect of a reconciliation between spouses; and

- it is satisfied that proper provision has been, or will be, made for the spouses and dependent children.

Ancillary or additional orders
In making an order for divorce, the court may also make ancillary or additional orders in relation to matters such as:
- custody and access arrangements in relation to dependent children;

- financial provision for the dependent spouse and children by means of maintenance to be paid at fixed intervals and / or lump sums;

- exclusion of a spouse from the family home by giving the other spouse the right to reside in the family home, for life or for a fixed period;

- barring of a spouse from the family home by prohibiting that spouse from entering it and from using or threatening violence against the other spouse and/or their children. Alternatively, without prohibiting a spouse from entering the family home, the court may make a safety order prohibiting a spouse from using or threatening violence against the other spouse or their children;

- property arrangements in relation to the family home and / or other family property for the benefit of either spouse and / or dependent children, for example:
- giving one spouse the right to occupy it for life or for a fixed period;
- sale of the property subject to conditions;
- placing property in joint names or in the sole name of one of the spouses;
or
- any other relevant orders;

- financial compensation making provision for the future financial security of a spouse through insurance policies and requiring either spouse to:
- take out a life insurance policy for the benefit of the applying spouse or dependent child; and / or
- assign the benefit of an existing insurance policy to the applying spouse; and / or
- pay the premiums on a policy;

- inheritance/succession rights of each spouse against the other are extinguished when a divorce is granted. However, there are still certain circumstances where a former spouse may apply to court for a share out of the estate of his / her former spouse;

- pension arrangements adjusting the pension entitlement of either spouse. However, the court will only make a pension adjustment order if proper provision has not been, or cannot be, made for the spouse and children through the making of other financial or property orders. A spouse can seek such an order either for his / her own benefit or for the benefit of a dependent child. Where a spouse benefits from the making of an order adjusting pension rights in judicial separation proceedings, the court may increase the benefit in
subsequent divorce proceedings;

- emergency temporary matters can be dealt with before the hearing of an application for a divorce, for example where one spouse is:
- incurring debts and endangering the family home or other property;
- threatening to remove money from bank accounts or to spend or hide a redundancy / gratuity / compensation / damages payment that s/he is about to receive or has recently received; or
- threatening to remove or sell household contents or other family assets.

Re-marriage
A decree of divorce gives the parties a right to remarry.
A number of matters are affected by a remarriage, for example, a divorced person who remarries:
- cannot continue to claim maintenance for themselves from their former spouse; s/he can, however, claim maintenance in respect of dependent children of the former marriage;

- cannot apply for any share of the estate of his / her former spouse when that former spouse dies; and

- cannot obtain a property adjustment order in his / her favour.

Foreign divorce
Where a person gets a divorce outside (your country), the divorce may be recognised in (your country) if it was obtained in a country where either spouse was domiciled.
Domicile is a complicated legal concept. In general terms, however, a person is domiciled in the country where s/he is resident and intends to reside permanently. It is possible to apply to court for a declaration as to the validity of a foreign divorce.
If a foreign divorce is valid, the divorced person:
- is entitled to remarry;

- may be entitled to seek financial and property orders against his / her former spouse, provided that the divorced person applying for such orders has not remarried;

- may seek protection under the domestic violence legislation;

- is not entitled to inherit from the estate of his / her former spouse; and

- is not entitled to the protection given to spouses in respect of the family home.

Jan, Did some one told you lately that you are the greatest!!!!
Pinky hugs Segaya

Hello Segaya

Hey....no-one ever told me that! I don't understand -Why do you say that? Have I done something out of the ordinary?

How are you feeling now, last time you posted you had to make it short because you were not well. How did the visit from your family go? I hope you are soon well enough to tell us more.

I am feeling really well and have spent the last 2 days working on the garden and haven't felt stressed for a few days.
I do think my partner will be feeling very thoughtful today as it's his kid's 16th birthday.He hasn't seen him for over a year now and he must wonder how he has changed since then. Also he is legally allowed to leave school and he may well do that. His school work is pathetic, he doesn't stand much hope of passing any exams and the teachers and boarding house staff would be pleased to get rid if him.

As he couldn't even maanage work experience arranged by the school I don't see him being capable of getting a job. I wonder if we will get contact from him or his mother as she will be expecting money from somewhere.

So even though we have no contact with this kid his 'legacy' lives on and gives my partner a lot of guilt and regret.

Regards
Jan

Eva, what a painful process to be going through, I hope you find the help and support you need. The information Jan has found looks good, and don't forget, there are people here who you can lean on when you need to talk (and type). Being taken for a fool is a painful thing, but please know it isn't your fault. It is a normal human 'condition' to trust and that is all you did, you trusted. What your partner did is take advantage of that in a terrible and unforgivable way. I do hope you are able to find your way to a decent future out of this.

Nova.

Jan, you information hound you! I am so impressed by your ability to turn yourself to every situation, you are a wonderfully determined person and a great person to learn from!

Thank you so much for taking the time to research on my behalf. It is heartening to know that the kindness of strangers is alive and well. Unfortunately, the charming angry unreliable psychopath I called my husband was actually correct about our marriage not being valid, but waited eight years to ambush me with the information. There's nothing I can do about it legally, so I have to be very smart and think outside my usual box.

Thinking is difficult because I am so shocked at his deception,guile and callousness, so amazed I didn't see through him and kept justifying and rejustifying his previous behaviour without realising my identity was being stolen. I have to live with that.

I've told my 17 year old son the marriage was not valid, but not my 15 year old daughter who is young for her age, and adores him, even when he is dismissive of her. My fear is that he'll manipulate her, and that she'll be attracted to men who are bad for her and will ruin her life. She rang me today from his place to say he was shouting at her and telling her she'd have to go home early because she was ruining his day. It's sorted now, but that's fairly typical.

My concern is getting my children though this, knowing they need a positive image of their father but not at all costs. And getting myself through - I feel physically sick and my heart hurts.

So early days for me but sense I may be best to play his game better than he does. Warm wishes, all.

Hi Eva

I understand what you mean about playing his own game better than he does. I used to wonder about having to do this in myself, but I believe you are right. Keeping your wits about you, not panicing, and thinking outside the square. It's what we have to do to survive and already you have 'got it'.

I also understand your words about wanting a positive image of their father. We try to juggle a lot don't we? This was truly a huge one for me too, for several reasons, and eventually I realised that despite having had such a father does not automatically spell disaster for a daughter in the future. As your daughter's role model, how you react to these type of men will have a huge bearing on how she may go on to deal with such types in future. By making the break as you have, and fighting to reclaim yourself, she cannot have a better role model and even if she does come across like types, (learned from him) she will the modelling (from you) of how to deal with them. Just by being the person you are now, and you may not feel all that strong at all this moment, but actually to be where you are right now shows you are a strong person and this will stand her in great stead. You are doing a great job. Know this.

Sapphira

Thanks Sapphira. I feel so glad to have found this site with such warm people. He just tried to get into the house because he thought I wasn't here - I heard him speaking to my daughter. It's so tiring even keeping up with it all, but onwards and upwards, no more covering for him and no more supporting his relentless self-image. By the way, we had seventeen images of him hanging in the house! One is a bust of his head so I've put it in the trunk of my car and intend to drop it into the ocean as a symbolic gesture!

I'm still briefing myself on this site and am reading stories I could have written as my own, also am noticing comments and themes that resonate for me. Being sexually inappropriate, treating us as objects with no sexual or emotional desires of our own, the preference for young girls which chilled me. I found this so difficult I couldn't speak about it and I too was called a 'prude' like another member. Thankfully I am not destroyed, although at times it was close. His ex-wife told me he'd told her she was 'mad' and she actually believed him so had herself checked out. They had no children.

I'm regretting the years of arguments, trouble over tiny unpredictable matters, the damage to my family, althoguh there is no sexual abuse at least. I realise I must work this through in its own time. People think he is a talented, respectable, eminent man. All a charade.

Eva, the tiredness you feel is clear in your words. It is deeply wearying - draining to the core to work your way out. But you will get there. I just love your tossing him into the sea! Let me assure you, you won't be alone when you do this...we will be here cheering you as he goes:) Having children really can complicate already complicated matters. Yet being conscious and loving it's amazing how we push ourselves on their behalf as well as on our own. So many strengths and admirable qualities they cannot see or appreciate in those they 'pick'. It can be very lonely seeing these people for who they are when few, if any, can see through the charade. But thank goodness you do! At one point I felt as though it had all gone so deep and was all so overwhelming that it would take at least another life time to heal from it. What truly amazes me is how, once the door is opened to a new life, life quickly restores itself and comes flooding right in to be with us. I believe nothing is ever truly lost, it is only recycled and will return to us but in a different, and often better-than-imagined-form. So it is for all of us, I believe.

Sapphira

Hello Eva

I’m sorry to hear that your marriage was not valid, are you able to tell us why this was? Did your husband do anything illegal by entering into another marriage he knew would not be legal? It’s good to hear you will not allow this man to dictate the rest of your life, it shows incredible strength of character.

Has this man ever been a good father to his children? I expect your son is old enough to work out for himself whether to respect his father or not. If he hasn’t been there for his children I don’t see any reason to sing his praises. It’s such shame that your daughter is not able to see how her father is behaving towards her, that is very sad.

I really wish we could have found some legal loophole to give you some comfort that your position is more secure than it appears. What a great attitude you are taking to thinker smarter that is such a positive way to tackle your problem. If it helps please feel free to tell us more of what has brought you to where you are now.

I hope we can offer you the support you need to get you through this incredibly difficult time.

I smiled when I read that you had ‘thrown your husband in the sea’. I feel you will be strong willed enough to get the better of him and hopefully it won’t be that long.

Regards
Jan

Thanks Jan. His other divorce was declared invalid in this state, but no, I can't sue for bigamy or anything - and checked all out legally this week. He had me boxed in, for at least eight years. Strength of character is deserting me, temporarily I hope, because so much is going on. My instinct still is to be loyal to him - the wrong position to take up. He assumes I will sell the house, as does my lawyer, which made me think. Why?

In other words, because I've 'lost' in the game of law, I am supposed to take it on the chin and move on, meanwhile doing the million domestic and childcare things you do, while trying to hold onto my professional life, where this news could damage my credibility because all my work strands are about truth, one way or another. I actually feel this worry and deception could really hurt me physically - and I don't usually worry about my health. Inside I am wrecked and raging, as he intends. I feel crushed but obviously this is what he wants in his sadistic way. He gets off on it.

Like so many other postings, he presented as the perfect father and mother!), the good neighbour, etc. He is well-known and respected in his field, where he has positioned himself as an expert in a very specialised area, only in employment about half the year and can pocket a lot without declaring it. So except when he was travelling, he was physically there for the kids although provoked rows all the time, and they knew no better. My son is very quiet since I told him and may be depressed. He's an idealist, like I used to be. My daughter is about to sit state exams so I haven't decided how to handle it - she thinks it normal for a father to erupt one minute and invite affection the next. He cares for my son a little, because he is male and achieves and tries hard. He thinks the daughter is 'slow'. She bakes cakes for him, appeasing always.

I'm filled with regret for what I thought was my family and so hurt by the contempt he must have felt for all the effort I made to keep things together. The truth was I always found him very difficult, but because the children were there, I cut back on my work, my desires and dreams, my needs, and of course also got miserable, cranky and more distant. It's like he waged war on joy.

I have built up my power base over the last while, but life has taught me that you do get kicked when you're down, so I'm careful still and mindful of my open nature. I'm not ruthless and I have to be. I still find it all so incredible - imagine being deceived into thinking you were married: it's weird! I almost thought he'd turn round and say it was a mistake as was his dreadful behaviour and he wanted us to heal everything. Then there's that old Chinese proverb, be careful what you wish for... I wished many times I hadn't married him. I wish you well and am glad we have made contact. You don't have to fix it all! xxx

Hello Eva

I'm really sorry to hear that you have no redress after being so badly let down by the legal system. I don't know anything about the laws where you live but find it unbelievable that your 'husband' is allowed to marry bigamously and get away with it. He obviously knew he was not able to marry again so broke all the rules and got away with it.

Have you got any evidence of him not declaring earnings or anything else you can use as a weapon to negotiate with through your solicitors? I would highly reommend you have a something to attack with rather than being on the defence, this man may well be able to 'buy' his way out of his moral obligations whether or not he is not legally bound because of his deception.

I have said on so many occasions that I have no faith in the law after many years expecting justice in my legal battle and it never happening. I know what you mean about your resolve weakening, there have been many occasions when I've thought I should just give up and walk away but then knowing I could not let injustice happen. It got to the point where I was physically ill and had a nervous breakdown so do not let this happen to you. Rage and frustration can do real harm to your well being, please try to let those feelings out. Have you got someone near you who will be a good support to get you through this terrible time?
I know we are here for you but it's even better if you can have a good friend to give you a hug, chat on the phone and do things to help you.

You hear it time and time again that the person who has been the victim still wants to hope, trust and forgive or at least overlook because it's in their nature as good honest people but the man who can do these things to you and your children deserves nothing so I hope your loyal instict is just that...an instinct, save your loyalty for someone who has earned it. Your dignity will remain in tact.

It must be really hard relecting on what you thought was your family and it turns out to be a farce but you have the children. That is one thing he gave you that he can't take away, that is another thing he does not deserve.

It cetainly sounds as though you are getting your life back and that is very positive. You don't have to become ruthless but being aware and vigilent is preferable to being unsure and vulnerable. I just have the feeling that you are a stronger person that you think, I'm sure you will surprise yourself. I can almost here you say "did I really do that?" The feeling of satisafaction that brings is so empowering.

It might be good to let your son have the man to (wo)man talk with you, I would put bets on that he is for more aware of the big picture than he lets be known and that may be why he is so down. It might give him the opportunity to exert his adult status and be a good ally. You don't have to run his father down but he does need to know how this man has affected your life.
It might be a relief for him that the two of you can talk openly as adults, he also may have opinions on how much his sister needs to know and the best way to tell her. He sounds like a better role model for her than her father.

Look after yourself and we will be waiting to hear how you get on.

Regards
Jan

I don't know your story yet, Jan, but your insight and wisdom are very real. I am starting carefully to enlist allies - both people I trust and like, as well as identifying some 'authority figures' he may respect. I've spent some of the evening googling tort law and may have a case there for deceit and negligence, although it would be a test case, so far as I understand it. Unfortunately, our mediator is obviously feeling under pressure and has postponed out next meeting: then he postponed the date available to her and me.

I went into his territory publicly this evening to do a professional gig. I made an effort to create an image, since this is what seems to matter. He will hear I was there, which may indicate I don't fear. (Of course I do).

My son found the head of his father on the trunk of my car (we say 'boot'in Europe) and smiled as he said "And what are you going to do with my father's head?" I hadn't got round to throwing it into the ocean in case it popped up again, and was wondering if I should rent a boat - such details! if I could find time I could make a short film to note the occasion. I am wary of enlisting him, because a male friend whose parents got embroiled when he was 16 is still, at 44, trying to figure it out. As he spoke to me I made a mental note not to use this son in the same way, tempting as it is.

As I walked beside the sea today, I thought of you and Sapphira, people I don't know who are supporting me. When I get through this, my skills are available if needed.

OOps! My car is in his name, as were so many other items that he wouldn't get round to paying, including our pension. Meanwhile my lawyers still haven't responded and I am concerned they know the legals in his family - his father, sister and brother. My solicitor had phoned me briefly last week after I made an urgent call: she referred to him by the name of his brother the judge all the way through, implying to me she gave him an authority in our situation.

I occasionally have to visit criminal psychiatric units and I have learned from them that failed (i.e. criminal) and malign Ps always invoke the law, play with it, bend it, try to test it, so there is another psychopathology in getting involved with 'justice' writ large or small, which is pleasurable for them. Personally, I do not want my life to be defined by this and at least, as I scroll thru' other postings, it was not a parent, which would have been so much more psychically treacherous.

So does anyone move on to a decent human relationship?

warm wishes

Eva

Hello Eva

You are doing all the right things, surrounding yourself with allies and gaining knowledge. Knowledge is power. Are you keeping a diary of all events even trivial things such as him not co-operating with appointments? You will need to show you are doing all you can to co-operate and playing by the rules.
I don’t know what the law is like where you live, I’m in the UK and found the law doesn’t work as you would expect. Because I gave every piece of information requested of me the ‘other side’ did all they could to discredit me as a method of defence but was really an attack. One barrister accused me directly of lying…I was appalled…she was representing my ex who had told her nothing but lies.
If I had withheld information they would have homed in on that rather than try and invent a case against me. My ex withheld as much as he could and my side didn’t have the time to follow up on most of it.
The other issue is to demand more than you are prepared to settle for because they do all they can to scare you into accepting anything.

I found you have to do all the ground work for the solicitors and tell them what you want them to do, they never advise you what to do.
You have a very different problem on your hands with your ex’s position, I would think it would be a good idea to get a someone who is out to get him to represent you so they will look for the angles.

You are very brave to appear in public to promote yourself, well done! It will show you as reasonable person.
It’s the unfairness and injustice that keeps me fighting and I felt I could not back down or I would be going against my principles.

I hope you don’t think I was suggested you should put pressure on your son to take sides. With my son I kept re-enforcing what a good father he has (and he is a very good father) but I did gently drip feed the facts without any negative emotions when situations arose. Friends said I should tell him everything but my instinct was not to do this and there is no barrier between us now. He is incredibly discrete with both of us but doesn’t feel obliged to be the go-between.

I’m sure in time you will have time to use your skills to help others on the forum and it will be gratefully accepted.

It’s good to see you can still have a sense of humour during a very bleak time, that will help you immensely. I had to smile about how it would look to an observer when you threw the ‘head’ into the sea!

Keep us informed about how things are going.

Regards
Jan

hi
i am new on here.i went out with a guy for just 1 year and in that time i competely lost myself.I knew something wasn't quite right from the beginning.
1.at the begnning he was affectionate holding my hand etc when i went to hold his hand he pulled his hand away and shouted who do you think i am some teenager boy did that throw me.
2.he started ignoring when i rang told me that was just him he did it to everybody he just is aloof.
3.rang me at christmas time told me he didn't want anything from me then said he couldn't remember saying it.
4.everyone told me he was a nice guy.i thought there was something wrong with me.
5.in bed used to put his hand over my mouth and say thats better.
6.unbeknown to me took viagra when we first had sex then all the times after that it was like he didn't want it usad to say i force him no kissing no affection.
7.he told me i was too sensitive.
8.people said things that didn't add up ie his previous relationship lasted 5 years but a friend of his said i was his longest girlfriend.
9.lies about who he was texting when confronted he said he could do what he likes.
10.used to say he would snap my neck like a twig(supposed to be a joke)
11.when i was in his place he would tell me to go (for no reason)so i would go to go and then he would ask what i was doing and tell me to grow up.
12he used to pinch me and humilate me in front of people.
13.he used to talk about me behind my back
14.used to tell me he pitied me.
15.he would tell me i was evil.
16.i found myself washing for him and his cleaning and ironing for him then he would brag to all his friends that i do all this for him like i was a idiot.
17.t the end he had the police take me away when he was the abusive oone.
18.after we split up he told people i knew i was evil crazy and a stalker he nearly convinced me.I now cannot see these people has he has turned them against me and i've known these people for years.
19.i have never felt so bad in my life i cannot understand why i miss him.
20.he used to tell me who i was but he wasn't right i can't understand why i feel so terrible.
its been 6 months and i am still wondering if it was him or me.I've never experienced any man like him.I feel like i am the bad person and if only i was better.Has anyone felt like his.

Hello Tadadams

welcome to the forum, you have certainly taken a severe battering. You have posed many questions and the answers are not because you did anything wrong. Whatever this man is he is not a good person and why would you want to be with someone who does not value you?

Think about how relationships normally work...two people value each other and do everything they can to show they care. The people you need to be wary of are the ones who say all the right things but do nothing to back it up.

You are obviously a very logical person, you itemised all the issues you are facing and from an objective point of view there was nothing there that told me this person you were with did anything to enhance your life, well maybe he 'pretended' to enhance it-but did he?
Maybe you should write a similar list of what positive benefits this realtionship brought to your life.

You have left this person behind and with your understanding and thoughtful attitude you will move on without blaming yourself, there is no need to take any blame.

If you need to talk about how you are feeling there are so many members of this forum who will help you through a bad time because of similar experiences.

I feel you are ready to look for information because you want to make sense of what you experienced and are ready to move on.
I do hope you can now do that and if we can give you any support while you do this please let us know.


Regards
Jan

Dear Jan36,
thanks for your reply,i still have no idea why i stayed so long if i am totally honest with myself that list could be made a lot longer with the not so nice things he did to me i am still left with the feeling that he could be nice to everyone else but me.That there is something wrong with me he once told me he wouldn't dare talk to his last girlfriend like he talks to me.I knew, but seemed not to be able to leave the relationship,i seemed to want to prove to him that i wasn't who he thought i was.I told him that i thought he was emotionally abusive to me and he smirked and said i'd been reading too many books how he knew that i do not know.He always told me during the time i was seeing him that he held all the power because he doesn't care,he told me he once thought like me but that isn't the way to be.He told me he was my master and the reason i wanted him because he was the best he is the emperor.When i tell people this they don't believe he ever said that.I can't understand why he ever went out with me was it just to destroy me he often used the word "destroy2.I started drinking too much it used to make me feel stronger to be able to ask him why he did these things he just used these times too hold against me.Too back me feel bad i was forever apologises to him because i had upset him,he used to run away from me and i would have to follow,like a lost puppy how could i do that to myself i lost all my dignity and he doesn't care.sometimes when he wouldn't answer the phne to me he would ring me the next day and say have you been crying cos i didn't answer your call it was like he was doing everything he could to hurt me on purpose.Why would someone be so intentionally cruel to someone else or am i just naive?I keep asking myself what did i do to him.I doubt myself imy mum has a lot of problems since she was a teenager i worry that i will be like her something else he would tell me'crazy like your mother'.I wonder how is last girlfriend put up with it for 5 years i'm sure he was nice to her.She left him and went out with someone else.I just want him out my head.

Hello Tadams

You have a way to go yet before you can stop trying to work out what went wrong in this abusive relationship but you are making a good start.
Your ex was probably only ever 'nice' to other people for his own reasons, to upset you, put on a false exterior to promote himself, gain something or even that he knew he couldn't make victims of some people. Men like him have to use a lot of charm to worm their way into peoples lives and affections which takes time.

As you probably found out, there is no point asking why he did these things, an honest answer is not on offer and more likely just because he could.
Have you asked yourself why you were the one to apologise? He was the one causing the abuse.

You have no need to prove yourself to anyone let alone him. You are who you are and if he couldn't accept that then that's his problem. In a good relationship partners value and respect the person they are with and do not want them to change. People like him pick on someone they can manipulate, anybody strong is too much of a challenge and they will lose the battle. You sound like a gentle caring person and maybe a little naive and the one in the relationship that puts in all the effort, in other words a suitable victim. He needed to be king of his domain and you gave him the opportunity by not rebelling. People like him are cruel because it's all they have got to use as a weapon to keep you confused and in your place.

I shouldn't assume that he was nice to his last girlfriend, no-one knows what really goes on in other relationships. She may have had her own reasons for staying with him for so long or she may have tried to put things right like you tried to do rather than give up and feel the collapse of the relationship was her fault.

You will get him out of your head when you see him for what he really is and see that he has the personality problem not you. He had a choice to treat you with respect or badly so I hope you can step back and see you are worth better than the crumbs he threw you. You will get your dignity back when you can see the facts and stop taking the blame. The only thing you did was try too hard and I hope if you do meet someone else they will cherish you for who you are.

Try to fill your life with things you like and people you want to be with because they care about you.

I wish you well and will follow your journey to get back to the person you have ignored for too long.

Regards
Jan

dear jan.
everybody i know tells me i am strong my family,friends but i know i'm not i realise he has manipulated me in many ways even to the point where i sold my house to move nearer him.i am the fool.i don't feel safe all i do is cry i've made so many mistakes and he walks round without a care in the world he seems to have sucked thelife out of me.i'm trying to make new friends i just can't enjoy myself anymore.i apologised to him because he made me think it was my fault.he made me say sorry over and over again,and then told me it wasn't good enough.He used to watch porn on the computer in front of me but he was hardly interested in sex with me.he made me feel that i was digusting he used to bite me and when he saw the bruises he wouldn't bat an eyelid i always thought i would never be with someone like that i don't understand why i feel this way.i know he was nicer to his ex he gave her money and was always buying her things and he took great delight in telling me like i was nothing and i know its no use feeling like this i can't seem to shift this mood.thanks tadams.

i meant too add that i have only gone 2 weeks without any contact he goes in the same place to drink he has been trying to turn people against and i have been trying to fight my corner.He stopped me going to manchester for my friends blessing by telling the person involved if she goes i will not go and nor with several others.The people i know finally realised they had been manipulated and they apologised to me but never told him he was wrong and i missed going.He has harassed me in the pub many times he tells people he thinks i'm going out with that i'm evil etc.Last time which was 2 months go he tells me he loves me then proceeds to put his hands around my throat.His friends witnessed it and walked away and their still his friend cos he gave the excuse he was drunk.The lst thing he told me 2 weeks go and i didn't want to speak to him ut he always manages to get his way.I've stopped drinking and talking to you thats wht you wanted to be left alone like im supposed to be grateful and i politely told him can you stop spreading lies and he told me he has no control of what people think of me.I now realise have to give him what he wants to stop going in there.Like others on here i have written to him trying to get him to understand how he made me feel but he never will see it its a game to him he just said if i made you feel so bad why did you see me and that i will never have an answer too.So i can see why no contact is the way forward cos to be honest i can't take anymore ut is so fustrating that he is carrying on like hes done nothing wrong.Tadams.

Hello Tadams.

I think you need to go for the total no contact situation. Going to the same place to have a drink is not a good idea. If anyone has turned against you then they are not worth knowing, you need to be with people who care about you.
Don't give him any opportunity to know what you are doing or who you speak to you.

You need to put a lot of space between you and disappear off his radar. He doesn't love you and never has, I doubt he will love anyone but himself. He will never change and why would you want to waste another second on this person? The realtionship you had was abusive and cruel and would never have a happy outcome.

NEVER ask him to try and undesrstand how you feel, he can't and won't and he will enjoy being asked as it will keep him in control and having your attention. I hope you keep so far away from him that you never have the opportunity to speak to him again.

I don't mean to sound as though I'm telling you what to do but I think you realise that you need someone to support the decision you have already come to.

I can't urge you strongly enough to keep right away from him and try and fill your mind and time with other things and people. It's an opportunity to get rid of people from your life if they support him as they will pass on information about you to him. Stick with people you can trust and even consider making a whole new life/fresh start.

You are master of your own destiny. I'm sure in time you will see things much more clearly and become the strong person you can be. It's early days yet and there must be a few issues you haven't accepted...like the wanting to ask him why or even thinking he did love you at some point. I hope you are way past thinking that if he comes back full of apologies you think he has seen sense and changed!!!!! If you have any illusion about that forget it now.(That's what I would say if you were my sister)

I hope your next post is a little more positive and you are feeling more in control. You can do it and everyone here on the forum will be cheering you on.

Regards
Jan

thanks again jan,
there is no going back the funny thing is i knew that he never had any feelings for me.I know this seems stupid but if i knew he did this to other women i would find it easier to deal with i would know for sure it wasn't me,a little selfish i guess.You are so right about people passing information to him knowing when im out and who with that is the only way its just a shame as i thought the people i know in there knew me for me but i guess he fools them like he did me.I wish they knew what he really thinks of them,he thinks they are a bunch of losers and they only feed his need to feel superior.I just feel some part of me is missing and i so desperately need it back i know i am a survivor and have gone through tough times ie my mother who never cared about me was too wrapped up in trying to change her parents.So i do know what is like to watch someone waste their life trying to change something you can't.I don't want that for me,but there is such a pull in trying to fix someone you really have to fight against it.I have no contact with my mum and she never asks about me she made a couple of feeble attempts of saying sorry she doesn't even know what for.That was something my ex would also say to me 'me and my mum have a great relationship you can't even do that'.I have heard the way he has spoken to his mum and its not very pleasant but she doesn't seem to mind she is in her 70's and he calls her late at night so she can pick him up from the pub sometimes she offers he could walk it he only lives 10 mins away.I just know i wish i didn't feel the way i do i wish that time could fast forward to where i do.Thanks tadams.

Hello Tadams

I'm pleased that you say there is no going back, that would destroy you totally as you are feeling very vulnerable now. I don't believe a man like your ex would treat any woman any differently to how he treated you....it's the way he is and it's NOT your fault. He may have treated you worse than others because it took you a while to work out what was going on and may have inadvertantly allowed him to get away with things no other person would tolerate. I have a saying "only a mother could love it" and that seems to apply to your ex, he treats his own elderely mother appallingly so you are not the only one.

So much for a great relationship with his mother! Great for him!

Don't even think about changing this man, even professionals can't help cure a personality disorder. It's his choice to be like that so keep well away and look after yourself. Don't even give a thought about what he thinks of other people, that's a problem for them-if they want it to be a problem. If they are unaware it's not going to bother them anyway.

Have you got a close friend or relative that you can spend some time with and talk this through? Someone who knows you well and can give you the confidence to believe in yourself? I get the feeling you are spending so much time with your own thoughts trying to work things out and put things right that it's stopping you seeing the true picture. It's very sad that you haven't got a relationship with your mother so can't confide in her.

You are stronger than you feel, you are actively trying to move forward and you will get there, I think you have come some distance already.
Have you researched personilty disorders? That might give you the information you need to show you that this man should be left entirely on his own and confirm what you think about him? You will see that you have been taken in by a person that doesn't deserve you.

I really hope we can see you get back your confidence soon. That empty feeling must be draining. If you need any help looking for information please let me know and I'll give you some links but there is a very good research section on thr forum.

Regards
Jan

hi,
i have kept out of his way and i have a new car and a great new job and i wanted to share the good news with my friends i hadnt seen for weeks.Unfortunenately he was out but i was silly enough to tell him about my success which he tells me hes happy for me (its all false).then he talks to me like we are still together calls me the name he used to call me when we were together the silly little things we do together why does he torment me.Then he tells me his just trying to be nice he has got another woman so why does he do this thats what gets me.Mind you he was sleeping with me when he was seeing her but that was my fault because i liked him.i wish i had not had gone in there all i can think about is how he is probably so nice to her and cannot be to me ever even now there is no contact.i was doing so well and i have let him upset me again i just want to feel nothing for him.I can see i have to lose all these friends that i have known for years and i am so angry at him for doing this to me as he tells me its his manor well it is now i dont want to have to shed another tear over him.thanks tadams

Hello tadams

Congratulations on your new job and new car, well done.

I'm sorry you had a relapse and I'm sure the reaction you got will confirm that no contact is the only way for you to get on with your life. It would be better if you can believe that this man will never treat any woman with respect or affection. You said yourself he is false and a liar. He probably knows that is your weak spot so makes out he treats everyone else better than you.

Don't be angry that is not good for you and won't achieve anything positive. Any reaction he provokes in you means you still can't let go of him, you need to work towards having no feelings at all for him. The day you realise you couldn't care less about him will be the goal to aim for. It's not unusual to want to put your point across to someone but only if that person is receptive and cares about your feelings. This man just uses your feelings to put him in a position of control over you.

Good luck and don't be too hard on yourself, use the experience as a lesson and keep it in mind if you ever feel tempted to have contact with him again.

Regards
Jan

Hi Jan
i been kept busy with my job training away from home new experiences,new people etc.If my ex gave me one thing he made me see that i needed to look at my own life instead of hiding from things i did not want to face up to.Anyway bumped into him on friday night and basically he was all over me he actually said 5 or 6 times that he loves me ha thats a new one for me i did kiss him and it was horrible he never liked kissing me when we were together.I am really glad ths happened because one of the things that bugged me was he couldn't be nice to me and he was nice to everyone else.BUT he isn't being nice to his new girlfriend she was ringing him up cos she was waiting for him she knew he was with me.
But she thinks i am after him how wrong she is oh he will get away with it he will tell her he was drunk.But i am so glad i have seen he can't be nice to anyone and iam so glad i am not her if he was seeing me and telling another woman he loved them i would have been devastated.Its made moving on so much easier i do feel sorry for this girlfriend and its makes me realise that i could of been her and i am so happy i'm not i guess that makes me a little selfish but she is so welcome to him Tadams.