Hello Damaskrose

I can see that you are very sensitive and that describes a gentle person who will be easily hurt. I do hope we can give you all the support you need to get your confidence to not let anyone bring you down.
It's so easy to have our buttons pressed....believe me-I've been there but the reason it's done is to get a reaction. I can't count the number of times this happened to me but I learned not to let anything show or to even 'smile' as if I didn't care.

Do you have any contact with the parents of your children's friends? You need to build up your own group of friends who care about your children and you too!

I wonder if you are taking too much blame for things that went on in the past, if your marriage didn't work then that is because two people were involved. Covering up the cracks is not a fault, it's a way of trying to make things better. Did your ex put all the blame onto you or is just your instinct to take responsibility?

From what you are saying you are making huge strides to remove yourslf from the pettiness of all this, that is a great start.

How do you feel about your daughter now? If it is too difficult to talk about please don't feel you need to respond.

wishing you well.
Regards
Jan

Hai Damaskrose,

I read what you say, and me also had have my share of gossip and lies.....
The best strategy with psychopaths, as we see here on the forum, is to totally ignore them....So also every move they make, what they saiy and whatever they do!!!
All they want is get a grip on you, so every respons you may give is too much.

We, women, have a 'built in' feeling of guilt and responsebillity.... But it is so very healthy to ask yourself all the time if these feelings are rightly true!

I said it before and again; If you can't see in overview or objective then it might help to project what has happend or what is happening to somebody you dearly love. If that somebody would live in the same circumstances you did/ do, what would you say to that person, what is your advise for that person.. Well I take it, that what you will say to this person will be the best reaction you can give for you love him or her!
So, this is the same thing you have to tell yourslf!
This way to approach everything can give a lot of insight and helps to get a real view on what happens.

About the people who believe your daughter.
As you know, I have a psychopath son. He told all kind of stories and lies about me and the way I went with him. People tend to believe a child don't they...so fighting my position is very familiar to me.
But in time and with a lot of effort I learned...
Whatever people will say about somebody else; is it ever nice??? Really, completely, nice???
I think we can agree that somewhere in the story often there will be a remark and then you smell the envy... or a word... and you now there is jealousy or something else involved. So what do we expect when one of our children is complaining, saying things that aren't true??
It will never be nice... But wat about the people?
Are they really importend to you?
As Jan said; When the situation with your daugter is that you havent seen her for so many years, then all she can tell about you is old news. Nothing new, and people who go along with her anyway are maybe not the people you want to be involved with?
Be proud at yourself don't see only what you could have done wrong, but try to see it from an other view and I can tell you, the world looks different then and it will be neye opener!
Greetings Segaya

Thanks so much for taking the time to reply Segaya and Jan It truly helps to write it down and though it is frightening to open up it has to be done. I need to know if I am the crazy one here as my daughter says. What is me and what is her. Living with my husband he often accused me of doing things I didn't do and I found myself doubting my own reality. clearer

Segaya it is true if you have not seen someone for years they tend to fade and their knowledge of you and your friends fades so it is all less important but in my case I saw my daughter up till last year twice a year or so and As I say I now know she used this contact as a time to get as much info as she could to be able to play social games with me. Also she had a friend who she got to pretend to be my friend...... but I had no idea the two of them were linked. This so called friend of mine was actually keeping my daughter up to date with my life and my worries and business etc so until I worked out what was happening very recently I was like an open book to them. But now I know the score I am trying to heal and keep out of their way. It is sad at school as they have convinced some of the people I was friendly with to avoid me obviously this has effect on my kids too some of their children have grown up together and now they ignore me in the playground etc.. Anyway as you say they will have no new news from me. I will make new friends and stay with the ones who know me and are true.

But as Jan said I am taking too much blame probably. But it is like living a lie for so many years and waking up and realising what was going on and feeling guilty I was unable to see this so long ago when I could have done more to support my daughter and other kids.

Jan..... I was thinking positively about my daughter until this all came to the fore. I was thinking of sending a present and card and trying to build a relationship by phone or letter first and then seeing if it felt ok to go further. I just know this child/woman is so hurt inside and I felt it was my responsibility to try and get through. This is how it usually goes with us she contacts me I welcome her and we just pick up where we left off with no in depth conversation about all the problems. Then if I try to talk she evades my questioning no matter how delicately I word it and she disappears from our lives again. I am usually left hurt and sad and completely in shock trying to work out what I did wrong. At first I was angry and..I did not understand what was going on then I was in denial and now I am sad and scared of her because of the stranger I feel she is. At present I feel I feel our whole relationship was false. But I am able to realize that my end of it was not false. I honestly loved her and out of all my children I was shocked to feel her distance from me.

When the lies and games etc started I could not believe it and I believed her time after time when she told me stuff. My other son who is twenty said I used to favour her and he felt we were closer than he and I were. I grieve for the loss of her presence in my life and the fact that she is missing out on the youngest two growing up. My son who was two when she was adopted never knew she was adopted for many years until he was 11 said I treated her the same if not better than all the other kids. He sees her sometimes in the town in passing and she gave him her phone number but it was a false one..She tells others she wants to sort things out but she then does everything to avoid this?

Life is too short for major rifts like this..I realize that now my own mother died nine years ago..the things we never said .... never apologised for. I grieve for my daughter and the damage she is doing to herself. I am sad because I think now this is the final cutting of our connection because I am going totally non contact.

But for my own sanity I have to be very careful and I am not giving out my unconditional love anymore I know mothers are meant to do this...but I am no longer broadcasting my feelings to have them thrown back.

I am sure this recent stress will fade and I will emerge stronger but for a moment or two I felt very distraught. I thought if I can't let people know what is going on I will just have to keep it all inside and then I feel it must be me and all my fault.

Thank you for the support i find it hard to talk directly to people anymore but know it needs to be worked through. I am going swimming each day the exercise really helps to dispel the negative thoughts. I am off out into the sun now as it is lovely outside.

Hello Damaskrose

I'm pleased that writing things down helps you face up to what you are dealing with. You are not the crazy one or you wouldn't be looking for answers.

" I was thinking positively about my daughter until this all came to the fore. I was thinking of sending a present and card and trying to build a relationship by phone or letter first and then seeing if it felt ok to go further. I just know this child/woman is so hurt inside and I felt it was my responsibility to try and get through".

There is nothing wrong with sending a card and present but I think you have to accept you are doing it for you and not your daughter.
It may be a parent's responsibility to try and get through to their children, you did that and it didn't work, this child is now a woman asd has to make her own decisions about how she wants to live her life, I think you have to let go and let her. It's time to stop asking what you did wrong and start asking what you did right that didn't work so there is no blame. Your other children have enjoyed your nurturing and do not have the same problems, maybe time to think that one child is different it's not what you have done.

I really don't think she would give a thought to missing out on her siblings growing up-maybe other people don't figure in her life unless they are useful.

From the other side of the fence, when my partner's kid lied his socks off and people believed him (often when they believed him rather than me)I was furious that people were in denial and defended him and couldn't see or accept the truth/reality. He would have done far less damage if his father/gran and anyone else close to him that he fooled, had been more open to acceptance of the truth.

I may go against the trend but I do not believe in unconditional love, it has to be earned and it's a two way street. Would you expect Hitler's mother to say "I know what he has done but he's my son and I love him anyway." ? What sort of person would say that????
A baby can give an honest smile and that is different but the smile has to be genuine that is more my definition of unconditional love.

I agree life is too short, if you live the life want and it's good then others will want to share that with you. It's time for you.

There is plenty of support for you here and it's so much easier to talk to others who understand what you see and feel.

Regards
Jan

Today my counsellor gave me a good thought. She asked me to think about all the good things I have done for people and esp my daughter. I realised I was so caught up in the bad and recriminations for my failure as I saw it to mother her. I was blocking out all the good memories and things we did together and as a family. She has passed a university degree course and achieved many things that some of this must come from our teaching and upbringing,

I am going to list them here so I validate myself and my work as a mother
I used to read to her each night and taught her to read. I did her homework with her and encouraged her to investigate and use the library. I encouraged her to be proud of her self and her heritage as a mixed race girl. I cane rowed her hair and bought her the extensions she wanted. I cooked her favourite dishes and taught her to cook. She makes a mean lasagne thanks to me! I sat her down for those mother daughter talks about periods and womenhood! I encouraged her to talk about her fears and to stand up for herself at school. I rushed her to hospital for the usual broken legs and childhood emergencies. I soothed her during chicken pox and other sickness. I saw her through the accident which damaged her eye and meant years of surgery and therapy. I ironed and sewed and picked up after her. I encouraged her to contact her birth parents when she showed an interest. And so much more I guess we forget but in short I mothered her and loved her.
It wasn't enough and that was not my fault. She has to hate someone and I guess it is often the adoptive mother. She is an adult now and responsible for her own actions. i pray she does not hurt too many others. I was willing to take responsibility for all the bad stuff and none of the good! Now this has been pointed out I see my daughter clearer and me for that matter. She has been very quiet of late and I guess as I have closed down her access to me via others she has no way in. Bliss absolute bliss. No doubt she will have her antenna tuned for other ways to cause upset but I realise now for first time in years I am in control. I feel sad for her as she will maybe one day realise how she cut a bond and how much i did really love her. I feel like the umbilical cord has been cut and I see how dangerous she is and I value myself enough to take all precautions necessary for my mental and emotional health. Trying to mother a psychopathic daughter is a nightmare...thank god someone turned on the lights!

Hello Damaskrose

Good on you!
That's a BIG list of positive things you have done for your daughter, I can't think of anything anyone else could add to that. My guess is if you tried to write a list of negative things you did you would find it hard work to come up with anything at all. Well -perhaps you didn't put enough sugar on her breakfast cereal or you wouldn't let her stay up late to watch TV...those sort of negatives.

It's always the person who gives most who seems to be punished, my partner's kid did the same to me and I did more than all his bio family put together. That is a topic in it's won right and a well know phenomena, maybe if I can find my information on that it would put your mind at rest.

You lasted the course with your daughter, you must be a very strong person not to break before she was old enough to leave home. I can't see that you could give her anything more. What she chooses to do from now on is up to her but look what you have given her to take with her.

It's your time now. You should look back and allow yourself some praise.

Regards
Jan

Thanks jan omg I never realised how i do this. I forget all the positives and see mostly negatives. I take the blame readily as if I believe myself guilty without benefit of a trial. Today someone else said you are a good mother and said to my two youngest how lucky they were to have a mum like me. I actually thought about it and yes they are lucky! It has taken every ounce of strength to get this far. Even normal kids tend to not appreciate mum and dad. The child with personality disorder has these same feelings but multiplied and distorted by their illness. I tend to do everything and not expect much appreciation this is a childhood thing maybe where because I was not praised or supported much I became somewhat of a martyr. I hope other parents realise this and praise themselves more for the good things they do. It seems the more we give our kids the less they actually realise what they have. My youngest say there is no food in the house sometimes and actually there is.... but maybe not chocolate and crisps etc.. Well I have the whole teen angst thing to go through two more times so I had better get a firm grip on my positivity cause I will need it!