Hi! After reading this thread, I can only suggest that if counseling is sought, behavioral or cognitive behavioral is the way to go. They are the modes that work best with tough love...in my opinion. They are the "coldest" emotionally.

Perhaps you can find a book or two based on these approaches to get ideas from. Consistency is key.

Also, Ps work best one on one to weave their intricate webs. When you bring in a team, it is discouraging in that they find it more difficult to manipulate two or more at a time. Especially if one of them is wise to him and he knows it. Showing a united front should be a good thing.

As far as the 7 year old girl goes, all I can say is the earlier something is done, the easier it will be. By the time the child reaches 11 to 13, it becomes much harder to modify the behavior. The child must really want to change.

Hi Jan36

I was wondering if the doctor could have his chromosomes analyzed. I would strongly recommended to have it done.


Our youngest son 13 has an unbalanced translocations of chromosomes 5 and 18 and his behavior is very wild, he can be so sweet and he can be so mean and dangerous.

I have been on the group Psychopath in your life a long time ago, i do not write hardly anymore, and i was checking this group because of our son acting up so bad, and when i read your story " but this child is extremely immature both physically and mentally" i would be curious if there is something wrong with his chromosomes.

Freedom

Hi Freedom

That is a really interesting concept and I hadn't even given chromosomes a thought but will certainly do some research now. Thanks for that.

I would be very grateful if you could share your information about the condition then I might be able to recognise any similarities. How did you get to find out and what are the tests that can be done and is there anything that can be done such as gene therapy? There are so many questions I'd like to ask you such as what symptoms did you first notice and are there any trigger factors. Was the condition progressive and do you see any changes?

I will wait with interest and hope you can answer some of my questions.

Regards
Jan

Bonjour, bonsoir
sorry i took so long to answer


He started to walk at 5 with a small walker, and as he got more mobile he likes to slap our flabby part of our body or your back which hurts because there is no fat there and he bites for fun which hurts and pull my hair gently which still hurts and hits his own head very hard, all this happen in public too at the grocery store or anywhere in public and private, he likes to run away from me in the store to be with him in public is like giving a clown show

one lady from a CARE agency was at a store in town and she could not afford to buy what he wanted so he laid on the floor in sight of everyone at Wal-Mart acting like a worm,
the lady ask this man if he could tell Paul just 3 words "Get up son!" and it worked

he pitches things in the house at people and our dogs
and sometime the things are hard and they puncture of bruise unless it is a pillow, and he laughs he think it is funny
when he was little he was watching Lassie movie who was drowning, it made him crying, he cries when he hears classical music and certain religious music
at school he hits his classmates who loves him
i see the child at the grocery store and they are happy to see him and i ask them does he hit you in class or pitch object and they say yes (and they still love him)
right there in the store i tell Paul tell you friend your are sorry to hit her or him and he gives them a light hug

he laughs a lot, he is a super happy boy unless he is hurt bad or he does not get his way


anyway there are so many different type of chromosomes abnormality that it would not hurt to get the test, if there is something wrong you might get more help from agency that deal with mentally challenge people if not then at least you would know

it would not hurt to ask for the test
you could get more footing in the door of people that deal with mentally challenge people

a lady i know who has 2 boys 11 and 13 (single mom)
the boy were so bad they were telling her they hate her and caught their place on fire finally she place them in different group home (they were arguing so much) and they like it one boy is learning how to play the harmonica, they have more activity for them and they needed that, they were bored, they were smart in their own way they wanted to know how everything works and the mom could not answer all their question or unfix and fix things back up

i pray that you will meet people that will help you all

maybe join a group of people that have to deal with people who acts out out of the ordinary
like this group here who are taking care of people with head injury and act weird and you have to deal with
my brother-in-law was hit by a car as he was getting out of the school bus and he was never right after that he was very smart in the 10th grade and they had to put him away then it was a long time ago, he lives with us now (he is 64)and this is another journey to go through with

May God help us all life is getting more psychotic

freedom

I have experienced this 'energy drain' - I personally refer to these as 'energy vampires' as they 'suck the life out of you' - I didn't realise they were Psychopath's until now and I think that is the connection - that it may be a good warning signal when around these Psychopath's for us all to take notice of 'how we feel' when unsure of ourselves and what we are experiencing at the time. Maybe paying attention to our own body's responses like this will forewarn us??
Relly59

hi just to say that I recognise many of the signs mentioned in the first post re rad/fledgling. Oh if only I had realised when my adopted daughter was younger. She is now full grown and a adult.

The lack of enjoyment of music and dancing.
No interest in pets or animals like the other children
Only laughed when someone got hurt or embarressed
Liked one to one relationships and could not share easily
Does not express emotions or feelings for anyone
The hyper vigilance to others business
No memories from past
Never praises anyone
....and also some i noticed like...
No tears if she cried just dry silent heaving
hiding important things around the house so the owner would panic and watching them search
Going into trances/Strange expressions
Materalistic

She would find out what you did not like and make sure you had an encounter....
For instance one of her brothers hated coffee creams and she even at young age of six went to the trouble of getting one out of the box and taking it to him. She had this way of acting so sweetly and gaining your confidence. I remember seeing her give it to him and thinking oh how sweet, and hearing him ask what flavour it was and she saying innocently it is strawberry I think. He reacted violently on finding it was coffee and pushed her so she fell to the floor. I don't remember thinking too much of it at the time and told my son off for pushing her believing I guess it was a honest mistake on her part. The trouble is looking back there were too many 'honest' mistakes. The problem was who would think a small child is capable of cold and calculating manipulation. And what started as small things like teasing her brothers with sweets grew into much more dangerous stuff.


I also agree with the stirring of emotions in people so the child can feed. Our daughter loved hiding things and watching us get distraught trying to find them. This could range from a brothers important homework book to once even my wheeled suitcase at an station. I remember turning my back and her and the suitcase were gone. Then after a search she turned up but no case. She was 17 at the time so no baby. She knew that inside that case were our passports and laptop. For a minute or so she denied having the suitcase but eventually gave the sly smile which we knew was as close to admitting it she ever came. Luckily a station employee had found the case and we were able to go on with the journey but our lives have been full of similar dramas that no other child ever came close to doing. All the negative energy she whirled up in us. I mean why try and ruin your own families holiday. But then I remember the look in her face when she saw us racing around trying to fix what ever she had interfered with and I know she got a thrill out of it. Not the normal naughty child thing but a real evil buzz.
Once too she scratched a teachers car from front to back with her keys because the teacher had taken her large hoop earings away. That took some time to prove and she was caught out only by cctv.
I remember sitting in the principles office and they confronted her and she said after realising the game was up ......'well at least she is insured isn't she' {referring to the damage}!!!
The school were always trying to tell us that something was not right but for the most part I believed my daughter that they had got it wrong. I wish I had listened now. You cannot believe how good these children are though at soothing your worries. The really clever ones could make you believe white is black! Teenage years are hell they seem to get a hormonal boost above and beyond the norm!

Sometimes I would catch a look on her face as if she was bored with us probably we were too easy to fool. And we were perhaps if We had realized and got her help she would have had more respect for us.

Sahmera
03/23/10 10:23 PM


Guess What my daughter is back. And she is on 800mgs of Seroguel and is trying to fight through the medication. She is not drooling actually quite active with the get in my face I dare you attitude. She has only been home for three days and can't an ounce of not getting what she wants. She tore up the new shower/bedroom at the hospital, hit numerous patients, threatened bodily harm to others, tore up room mates belongings all in one month. I am so happy to have her home. She is now close to 140 pounds or more at 5'2". Doesn't seem like a big deal but everything is anymore with this child.

She was so angry when she got home because she is sharing a room now at least for a little while.

Just a little update on my dear sweet child. The doctors validated once again that she doesn't to get better, she is manipulating, lying, thief, narcissistic, and the kitchen sink too. It's unfortunate that she has given up at such an early age.

Here is another irony. I heard hear mother was thrown into jail again at the same time my little one has been going nutso. The last time they saw each other was several years ago, no contact whatsoever. I had this happen with another child I had. She was going through trauma drama just like her brother at the same time. Neither one knew the other was nutting out.

I have observed the psychopath fledgling to act out an impulse crime and victimize himself by the same crime method. Break a window of a stranger. Break his own window and claim being a victim with the victim and hide his own window crimes,within the act. Very cunning behavior.

A teen,approaching adulthood who meets most of the psychopaths criteria and Dr.Hare's list took money from my teen. I chased him down and demanded he return it. He refused.
He said I was flipping out over nothing and I should be thankful he was teaching my kid a lesson of not being spoiled and I should be thanking him.
He said I was bad news,stupid because I was giving money that they could spend on drugs or booze,
I was a bad parent to let them have free money and other kids do not get hand outs from their parents.
I said I would figure that out myself and to return the money. He refused claiming to already have spent it. I knew it was a lie. I could not make him give it back.
I was so mad. He threaten to turn me in for following him.
He went on his way winning the right to steal money,and have a safety net when he was caught.
I said at least we are not thieves. He called me a dirty name and kept going.

Does anyone know what the percent of fledgling psychopaths is before the chronic delinquency or compulsory attendance is factored in?

Is there data on Psychopath youth before 1950s?
If so what were the methods so measuring the Psychopath population?
Boys homes? or delinquency?