(((((Betrayed)))))

As I read your account all the hair on my body stood up. How atrociously biziare. And then your last conclusion that he could possibly be a serial killer. . .

It is sobering to me as well. I consider myself an intelligent person. How could I have fallen for this? I perceive alarming situations for others. Why didn't I see it for myself.

I have also shared, I wondered was the last night we were "together" supposed to be OUR LAST NIGHT TOGETHER? I can actually see him "taking me out" with exactly the same emotion as when we have sex. I believe we both sense the danger. Not in a paranoid way either. I know I feel the need to be being extremely cautious.

I have times where it is not as bad as others but when I read accounts like yours, it brings it all back. I believe it could be Gods way to remind us not to let our gaurd down.

They told me at the rape center not to let P#2 know anything what I suspected. They have his name and date of birth on file and if anything happens to me I signed a permission statement to give the information to my brother and the authorities.

I pray everyday for my own safety, protection and wisdom on how to deal with this.

There is a chaper in the book Stalking the Soul on the victim (target). It helped me see how once they target you it's so slow and subtle it's hardly noticeable. Something like brainwashing. I have only had time to speed read but the jist was about the powerful grip they get on you. It sounds like P also spent considerable time "grooming" you before he went in for the prize. Some of the things you described that he did are such deliberate mind games. I know when that stuff started for me, I couldn't even think straight from then on. I was always in a spin. I would be talking and my mind would be spinning on something P said or did. Wasn't this the P that needed you to understand that "Everything is Made to be Broken?"

Remember that I told you about the album P#2 was playing the second night we were together. Robert Palmers favorite hits. . .and the song Addicted to Love? . . . .your mind is not your own? And that other one, In my System. . .to turn your mind around, I know will take time. . .but I know I will now. . .your'e always on my mind. . .you. . .oh. .oh. . .oh...are in my system, system. . .You got me burning I'm on fire. . .you know I'll take you out, but I'll keep loving you. . .

I don't think that just "happened" to be playing. . .

I've listened to several other songs on that album. . .I don't like any of them anymore.

I'll keep you in my prayers as well betrayed. I also have to consciously battle the fear away at times. I believe we that have had these close P encounters of the most henious kind, need to take every precaution

Are you okay right now? I know my anxiety comes in spurts and when I come here and post it really helps. I know I beleager some points but you all seem so patient and understanding as I ramble around and try to make sense of it all (as if it ever can). Are you safe and just feeling anxious or do you feel threathened? Or are you just trying to get it out of your head?

I send you thoughts of peace Betrayed. . .your story makes me so sad for you and so pissed off at that henious stalking P.

Blessings. . .(((betrayed))))
finished

Betrayed. . .

Your post has stayed with me all day, I thought of you often.

>Believe me when I say, this would have been the last guy on earth I would have chosen to date, let alone fall in love with. I have never in my life been attracted to guys with tattoos, never dated someone with a criminal past, never dated someone who has overt anger problems, would refuse to ever date someone with an alcohol or drug problem.<

In the book Stalking the Soul, there is a chapter thats speaks to to victim (target).

Qoute:
The Victim As an Object

The victim is a victim because he or she has been choosen by the abuser. He or she becomes the scapegoat who is responsible for everything bad. From now on, he or she will be the object of violence, sparing the attacker doubt or depression.

The victim is innocent of the crime for which he or she will pay. However, even witnesses to the abuse suspect the victim. It all takes place as if an innocent could not exist. People imagine that the victim either tactictly agrees or is an accomplice, conscious or unconscious, to the abuse.

The point. . .is the victim (or target) is the target because they were choosen by the abuser (P). You were picked betrayed.

You yourself have told me how crafty, deceitful, evil and devious they are.

It is not your fault and don't be ashamed, he knew how to get to your precious and loving heart. I certain from reading your posts, that you are a caring and compassionate person. How were you to know betrayed? They are masters at deception.

It probably would be worth every bit of the 22.95 (gulp, me too) to buy the book, Stalking the Soul. It explains this dynamic at a whole nother level.

I send thoughts of peace and comfort to you betrayed. . .
and
God bless you and keep you (and your granddaughter).
finished

"The point. . .is the victim (or target) is the target because they were choosen by the abuser (P). You were picked betrayed"


Thanks (((Finished))). Yes, I was picked, I was chosen. He was seen going in and out of my home, when my grandaughter and I were not home, by neighbors, before I ever met him. I had recently moved in in and did not know the neighbors. They did not know, at that time, that he did not live at my house and that he was a stranger to me..

"As I read your account all the hair on my body stood up. How atrociously biziare. "



I am sorry, I triggered you. Everything about it was so bizarre. It's just been too creepy to take it all in. Trying to convey how terrified I have been, has been so hard to explain. I was so set up. Having the police not believe me has been so traumatic. How could I have possibly explained to police what happened, when I was so hysterical. I'm still having such problems telling it all. It feels like I have to explain how he did it, bit by bit to be believed.

"They told me at the rape center not to let P#2 know anything what I suspected. They have his name and date of birth on file and if anything happens to me I signed a permission statement to give the information to my brother and the authorities"


I told the police, the psychologist I see, if anything happens to me or my granddaughter, he did it, please investigate.


" There is a chaper in the book Stalking the Soul on the victim (target). It helped me see how once they target you it's so slow and subtle it's hardly noticeable. Something like brainwashing. I have only had time to speed read but the jist was about the powerful grip they get on you. It sounds like P also spent considerable time "grooming" you before he went in for the prize."



Yes, it was so slow and subtle. That's exactly what he was doing, grooming me and my grandaughter. He played us like on a chessboard. Going in for the checkmate. He missed it though, That's why he screamed at me the last day? "I should have F**ked you" I didn't have a chance. He used specific brainwashing techniques. I read every book I could on brainwashing, to find the ones he specifically used on me. I found some with Milton Ericson plus NLP techniques. He would tell a story, not specifically about me but with enough characteristics, to sink into my subconcious. Sort of like indirect communication.

You know how, for example, you can say to someone, this friend has been coming over to visit me without calling and I really wish she would call first. Well, the friend you tell this complaint to is really the person that you want to tell this to, but you use someone else as an example, to be polite, but they still get the message.

Sometimes he would screw up and say, almost to himself, "It's not time to tell this story." One, of many, he used was this.


He talked about an antique dealer who he refinished furniure for and on his own in the same shop.( but a man) The man started coming on to him. The P refused., saying I'm not gay. The antique dealer then begged him to have sex. The P still refused. The antique dealer then offered him money just to show him his private parts. The antique dealer pulled out his wallet that was thick with money. The P said he was very poor at this time, and that even though he was very poor, he still refused the money.

When the P first told me this story, right near the beginning of it, he said out loud to himself, "It is not time to tell this story". I made him finish it. He told me this story when we were in the first antique store.

Once we had moved into our own store he told it to me again, but with more embellishment. This was at the time he was heavily romancing me, and I knew he was in love with me.


He was sending me a very indirect message that he would never have sex with me. Before I met him , I, too, used to pull out my wallet, thick with money. As we know what he said to me on the last day, before the police were called, "I'm not a faggot, I don't like young boys, and I'm not after your daughter. (My granddaughter, who calls me Mom) Obviously he story about not being gay was not true. I also suspect he was prosituting himself. ( From a whole bunch of other stuff he said ). Someone spotted him last year on the street, and said he was dressed like a prison [censored], someone who would do it for a couple of smokes. I saw him walking in front of my car last year, and he was dressed very gay.

I never ever came on to him, all I had ever said was I really like you too.

Can you follow this, its all so mixed up and confusing?



"Remember that I told you about the album P#2 was playing the second night we were together. Robert Palmers favorite hits. . .and the song Addicted to Love? . . . .your mind is not your own? And that other one, In my System. . .to turn your mind around, I know will take time. . .but I know I will now. . .your'e always on my mind. . .you. . .oh. .oh. . .oh...are in my system, system. . .You got me burning I'm on fire. . .you know I'll take you out, but I'll keep loving you. . .

I don't think that just "happened" to be playing. . .

I've listened to several other songs on that album. . .I don't like any of them anymore"



I remember when you told me this. I think that is why I said to you at the time, I don't think it was an accident it was playing and he made a comment about it.

More indirect communication, but it went into your subconcious, and came out when you started remembering all the odd things he said. Your subconcious remembered it, and he counted on that. You brain subconciously was fearing him. He was surrounding you in danger to hold you to him, that at the time was only being picked up subconciously. Do you know what I mean??



"I've listened to several other songs on that album. . .I don't like any of them anymore"


I think what is amazing about that album is that it seems to have been written by a pyschopath descibing his techniques.


"Are you safe and just feeling anxious or do you feel threathened? Or are you just trying to get it out of your head?"

I'm not feeling threatened. We have not been stalked by him in over 2 years. I'm just trying to get it out of my head. However, the lady at the womens center told me that some stalkers stop for a while, then start up again and for us to always watch our back, not to let our guard down. The P himself once told me, when he was angry at someone for something, he would wait till they let their guard down, then get them. He was an angry vengeful person. I can't even explain why I even listened to some of the stuff he said. This kind of stuff he never talked about till towards the end. It just seemed to get worse and worse.


Thank you finished for expressing your anger, Finished. I still don't feel any. Just occasionally in little spurts. It's as if I can't feel it and I need someone else to express the anger and horror for me. Almost like those feelings that I know I should have towards him have been shut off.

PS. I haven't been posting lately. Had to get a new (used) computer. Managed to trade an antique chair for a computer.

Some of the things you described that he did are such deliberate mind games. I know when that stuff started for me, I couldn't even think straight from then on. I was always in a spin. I would be talking and my mind would be spinning on something P said or did. Wasn't this the P that needed you to understand that "Everything is Made to be Broken

All I was focused on while we were in my store together was "Why hasn't this guy come on to me yet. The guy is definitely in love with me. Then after 3 months when I couldn't take it anymore, I told him I liked him. When he freaked, then we wondered "Why would a guy, play some weird game that he was in love with me when we were in business together." Why would he be playing headgames? My friend, her husband and I every night would discuss this. ,The old carrot and stick ploy.


I still think the main message from that song, "Everythings Made To Be Broken', (although part of it was that), was "I Want You To Know Who I Am." He many times, in many ways, wanted me to know what was really going on.

His brain had been literally shattered by childhood abuse. Once I asked him how he managed to stay so cool, when a guy came in the store who he owed money to. He managed to not pay the guy that day, and had the guy walk out smiling. The P told me another part of his brain takes over. So in reference to everythings made to be broken, it is as if P's keep repeating over and over again, what literaly has happened to their brain.

He was disposing once of old sheets of glass, and throwing them in a garbage bin. He didn't place them carefully, he was throwing them in, smashing them, at least 50 of them. I just stood back in horror as he was doing this., terrified as the glass was shattering and bouncing out of the bin, frightened he would cut himself. It was all so crazy....


Betrayed

Betrayed,

I am catching up on posts. These words from your post jumped out at me: I believe his plans were to marry me then murder me, to get my money from my business.

I thought I was the only one who felt this way about my P. I also thought I was crazy. Without going into details, I had a similar worry, and it came from putting together details of things he had said and did. Something interesting was that my P told me his first wife (before me) said something similar, that he had only married and stayed with her because of her inheritance. He had "joked" with me about "having her knocked off".

The saddest part of it all is that when I examine my own feelings, and realize that even with this knowledge of his character and ulterior motives, I still sometimes wish that the false image of his love had been real. Then I get mad at him for casting such a spell on me.

Then I realize it is just up to me to release that wish... and to give myself time for the emptiness to heal. And to allow God to fill it. To rest in His love for me and to grow as He leads. And it is healing. It just takes time.

Yesterday I recognized progress - after about 9 months of no contact-no response. I ran into a coworker of his yesterday. She is also a friend of mine. She began to talk about him, and to share a few recent observations. I listened, made a neutral comment, and then changed the subject. This seems like a small thing, but to me it is a major milestone. I did not ask her for more info. I did not go into obsession mode, I did not make any negative comment in response.

I am thankful to God for this revival of my sense of dignity in dealing with what for me is emotionally charged information. Before, when people mentioned him, I wanted to respond this way but could never do it.

I am so glad for every one of us who escaped with our lives. I am praying for each person who comes here to this site to have a recovery of their life, self esteem, and dignity. Even if it was stolen from them in childhood, before they can remember.

Leti

" I thought I was the only one who felt this way about my P. I also thought I was crazy. Without going into details, I had a similar worry, and it came from putting together details of things he had said and did. Something interesting was that my P told me his first wife (before me) said something similar, that he had only married and stayed with her because of her inheritance. He had "joked" with me about "having her knocked off". "


Hi (((Leti))). No, you're not crazy. None of us are. There are probably more of us, but are too afraid to be thought crazy or just too afraid period. I had enough problems trying to convince the police he had stalked me , let alone the rest of the stuff. These guys are cunning. They count on us not being believed. They talk in riddles. If you figure out their game plan, all the odd little things start to make sense. His statement about having the first wife knocked off is chilling. The callousness of that statement is just evil. Did she manage to get away from him?


They disassociate us from all the back and forth.. Those love feelings are just trauma bonding. When I first started seeing the women's abuse counsellor, I remember telling her I was getting off on the stalking, but that I recognized it as trauma bonding. I had been so split by the terror, I couldn't wait to see him. If he hadn't been following me in his car for a couple of days, I'd start to miss him. Crazy? NO, Trauma bonding. But thank god, I knew exactly what it was. Those feelings, I was feeling, weren't real.

Thank god, you guys on the forum, understand. Anyone who has never experienced a psychopath, could never understand.


"
Yesterday I recognized progress - after about 9 months of no contact-no response. I ran into a coworker of his yesterday. She is also a friend of mine. She began to talk about him, and to share a few recent observations. I listened, made a neutral comment, and then changed the subject. This seems like a small thing, but to me it is a major milestone. I did not ask her for more info. I did not go into obsession mode, I did not make any negative comment in response"


I think you're doing great. It IS a HUGE milestone. For the obsession mode not to kick in after that, is terrific. You handled it marvelously.



" I am so glad for every one of us who escaped with our lives. "

It sure shakes you to the core, doesn't it? How many haven't managed it? The horror of it, stays with you a long time. It's just so hard to comprehend. How did you manage to escape? If you don't want to talk about it, its OK. I find it really comforting just to read others stories, there are so many similarities. I just get retraumatized talking about it. But also feel a need to get it all out.


Betrayed.

hi betrayed,
just some general humble thoughts. based on the data you have provided us regarding this fellow (stalking, perhaps plotting murder, perhaps a serial killer etc. etc. etc.), i would venture that he is an APD (antisocial personality disorder) rather than a true psychopath or pure narcissist like most of us have dealt with here. sure they share some of the same characteristics (specifically lying and conning) but their motivations are often quite different, and psychopaths tend to be much smoother operators (e.g. the probability of one stalking you is fairly low). just my opinion.
persistent

Hi Betrayed. . .

Glad to see you!

>I am sorry, I triggered you. Everything about it was so bizarre.<

I think the effect was more like watching someone in a scary movie. . .watching, knowing what is going on and being unable to help. Yes and some similar feelings because I have now been in the same "Chamber of Horrors".

> Having the police not believe me has been so traumatic. How could I have possibly explained to police what happened, when I was so hysterical. I'm still having such problems telling it all. It feels like I have to explain how he did it, bit by bit to be believed. <

I am outraged these days when I see or hear of my "sisters" that have fallen into the hands of these P's. And outraged at the invalidation,lack of support and apathaty towards the (victims) targets. And in all fairness, I myself have not been able to identify until my own experience.

Betrayed. . .this forum was the ONLY place I found ANY validation or was able to make any sense out of this bizarre behavior. I had no frame of reference, no jumping off place, no grasp of these kind of personalities. If I did, it surely did not apply to anyone I knew. Now, I know, this comprises almost all significant others in my life. . .shocking.

I had been to three clinical psychologists to try to get some understanding of the behavior in the beginning. The laying of those years of friendship. . .to come together sexually. . .and then the withdrawal. Not one of them could offer any answer. . .and yet. . .after reading the information on the P profile and the NPD profile, it is so obvious. Why didn't they see it? A mystery to me.

>Can you follow this, its all so mixed up and confusing? <

What I can follow is the illogical and confusing messages and behavior. It is the stories inside of stories (none of them ever good). Yes, I follow that it has to come out in bits and pieces. I have posted that I have had to take events and conversations, "freeze frame" it, and put it under a microscope and discet all the information, voice inflections and overall tone. I have discovered they DO use thier words to obscure. I can't number the times we would "talk" and afterwords I would think "he didn't answer ANY of my questions" or worse, his answer had a double message.

>I think what is amazing about that album is that it seems to have been written by a pyschopath descibing his techniques.<

Now that you mention it. . .I believe you are absolutely correct! I didn't think of it quite like that but know when I listened to it again, it all was so what was acted out. . .

Dr. Dr. give me the news, I got a bad case of loving you
You think I'm cute
Kinda shy
But baby
I'm not that kind of guy. . .

Yes. . .it describes the techniques to a T.

>I'm just trying to get it out of my head. However, the lady at the womens center told me that some stalkers stop for a while, then start up again and for us to always watch our back, not to let our guard down. The P himself once told me, when he was angry at someone for something, he would wait till they let their guard down, then get them.<

I know it helps me so much to just post here and get it out of my head. It also helps to keep reading so I won't get complacent or let my guard down. I have learned that I been a P magnet, vulnerable and childlike in many ways. A perfect target for a NPD. I have been his sourse of narcissistic supply a willing sourse. When I read your account it was "heads up" this is REAL, not to get paranoid but BE AWARE!

>Thank you finished for expressing your anger, Finished. I still don't feel any. Just occasionally in little spurts. It's as if I can't feel it and I need someone else to express the anger and horror for me. Almost like those feelings that I know I should have towards him have been shut off.<

Betrayed. . .I believe my anger stems from the fact that I have been passed from one abuser to the next and each one more insidious and vile. I have lived all my life thinking everything was all my fault. P's are smart enough to pinpoint our weaknesses. The P's in my life always lied with enough truth to keep me on the defensive. The positive is, because I was always trying and working on relationships and improving myself that when I was attacked, I would head for the bookstore and find a book on how to improve in the areas P accused me in.

Now. . . .I know. . .it wasn't me, it was THEM! Yes, I have my "stuff". I take responsibility for my part but before I took responsibility for ALL of it.

I am now ANGRY AS HELL THAT I WAS LIED TO AND THAT I BELIEVED IT!!!! And NOW I can really see it. I also see it in others relationships. I can see it all around me. It's everywhere. It's like a disease. A disgusting, vile, pernicious disease.

I'm really angry because as women, we have be taught to be good little girls and take it. Others are always right. Your feelings don't count. The outrage is discovering I've been LIED to and was taught to BELIEVE the lie. (I think I might be getting close to being on a soapbox here) :-) That's why I was so pissed off at that henious stalking P. . .he took advantage of your trust. . .and you believed the LIE. Damn him! Okay. . .I'll quit now.

>PS. I haven't been posting lately. Had to get a new (used) computer. Managed to trade an antique chair for a computer. <

((((I'M SO GLAD YOUR'E BACK BETRAYED))))!!! Your words or encouragement and support have sustained me many times. . .thank you!!! so much!!!!

finished :-)

>" I am so glad for every one of us who escaped with our lives. " <

>It sure shakes you to the core, doesn't it? How many haven't managed it? The horror of it, stays with you a
long time. It's just so hard to comprehend.<

> I find it really comforting just to read others stories, there are so many similarities. I just get
retraumatized talking about it. But also feel a need to get it all out. <

That above all, is the most sobering reality I have ever had to face. That being alive today is really a second chance or opportunity to get it right.

Yes, thinking of it now does retraumatize me but every time I tell the story, it seems to be less so (traumatizing). Some days I actually think of the experience as a gift. I would have either stayed until "death to us part" or moved into the arms of another worse P. Kris posted in the Unrecognized Heart about the markers that lead into hell and the ones that lead out. I have to go back and reread that. It was absolutely profound to me when I read it as it described my experience to the max.

I'm very grateful these days . . .life has taken a whole new meaning to me.

I'm willing to keep educating myself and do the work needed so I won't fall in this trap again. And hopefully, I can take as many with me as I can.

Thank you dear friends for being here. I pray for you also for peace, healing, comfort and safety,

With Love and Gratitude to you all. . .you have been my mainstay and sanctuary.
finished