"Betrayed. . .I believe my anger stems from the fact that I have been passed from one abuser to the next and each one more insidious and vile. I have lived all my life thinking everything was all my fault. P's are smart enough to pinpoint our weaknesses. The P's in my life always lied with enough truth to keep me on the defensive. The positive is, because I was always trying and working on relationships and improving myself that when I was attacked, I would head for the bookstore and find a book on how to improve in the areas P accused me in. "


Deja vu. I can so relate to your experience of life.Thank you too (((Finished))), you have been able to put down in words, what I have problems expressing.



"I am now ANGRY AS HELL THAT I WAS LIED TO AND THAT I BELIEVED IT!!!! And NOW I can really see it. I also see it in others relationships. I can see it all around me. It's everywhere. It's like a disease. A disgusting, vile, pernicious disease"


Once we have been awakened to it, it is so ugly. It's shocking. Our whole society is permeated with it. Now I really understand what womens libbers were talking about in the 1960's. Although it isn't just a male problem, but a people problem. Our whole system is riddled with it. Now we know the signs and symptoms of it, it's amazing how many Presidents/Prime Ministers/World Leaders ( I won't name names)are classic examples of abusers.


"I had been to three clinical psychologists to try to get some understanding of the behavior in the beginning. The laying of those years of friendship. . .to come together sexually. . .and then the withdrawal. Not one of them could offer any answer. . .and yet. . .after reading the information on the P profile and the NPD profile, it is so obvious. Why didn't they see it? A mystery to me. "

When I first started reading psychology textbooks, etc., trying to understand what I had seen and heard, there was no mention of the dynamics of abuse in the textbooks. I don't think this is covered at all in psychology textbooks, and yet it is the cornerstone of, I believe, of all future "mental illness" in their children and mates. Literally "crazymaking".


Once I figured out that the P was a multiple personality, all the different parts, different voices, etc. I called up a local psychologist, to find out more about them. I had read every book on multiples I could find. I had an appointment with him, and sat and explained what I had seen and heard for over an hour. At the end of it all, he said that wasn't a multiple, that was a psychopath. I think he was wrong, he is a multiple, and he is a psychopath, but just more split into differenting parts than most P's. Read up on multiple personality disorder ( or disassociative identity disorder, same thing, new name ) and you will see what I mean, the similarities are astounding.

" I can't number the times we would "talk" and afterwords I would think "he didn't answer ANY of my questions" or worse, his answer had a double message. "


The double messages, in all their communications. One appears, benign, the other evil. Almosts as if two parts of them, are speaking or acting at once.

And such a horrible spot they put us in with their double binds. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Almost freezes you into inaction.


You have said a number of other things, in previous posts, that I am going to go back to, that were really important that I missed replying to. I'll try and do that over the next few days.

I really missed you and your support. Thank you listening, understanding and validating me, (((Finished))))

Betrayed

>Once we have been awakened to it, it is so ugly. It's shocking. Our whole society is permeated with it. Now I really understand what womens libbers were talking about in the 1960's. Although it isn't just a male problem, but a people problem.<

Oh yes, Betrayed! I certainly didn't mean to imply that, and I know you didn't take it that way, it is not a gender problem. It IS a people problem.

>When I first started reading psychology textbooks, etc., trying to understand what I had seen and heard, there was no mention of the dynamics of abuse in the textbooks. I don't think this is covered at all in psychology textbooks, and yet it is the cornerstone of, I believe, of all future "mental illness" in their children and mates. Literally "crazymaking". <

I can agree here as well. It wasn't until I read Patricia Evans book, The Verbally Abusive Relationships, that I was able to see where the dynamic has its seeds. That book was by far the best information I ever received to understand WHAT abuse is and how to identify abusers! I have bought it for two of my friends, recommended it to my daughter, my therapists, and women in my groups. It is a must read for every woman I think! We take to much responsibility on ourselves when relationships are a two people deal. I always believed them when they said "if I wouldn't have done this" then "they wouldn't be like that".

I believe I also read in her book that abuse is not a subject that psychologists want to get into. I know none I ever talked to did.

>Once I figured out that the P was a multiple personality, all the different parts, different voices, etc. I called up a local psychologist, to find out more about them. I had read every book on multiples I could find. I had an appointment with him, and sat and explained what I had seen and heard for over an hour. At the end of it all,he said that wasn't a multiple, that was a psychopath. I think he was wrong, he is a multiple, and he is a psychopath, but just more split into differenting parts than most P's. Read up on multiple personality disorder (or disassociative identity disorder, same thing, new name ) and you will see what I mean, the similarities are astounding.<

Ditto, Betrayed!

I also took information I printed off the internet on the NPD. I pointed out that P had OVER five of the characteristics that define that personality disorder. THEN, they saw it! THEN, it made sense! Thank God for this forum. If I had not found you all, I'd still be wondering. Especially why he sent me home that night drugged and no phone call. Now. . .understanding the disorder. . .I can figure it out. But it would have never made sense any other way. (not that it makes sense now, but at least I have an explaination for this behavior).

>Almost freezes you into inaction.<

The word that describes me for the last five almost six years is paralyzed.

I lost myself. I had no spontinaity (especially around him), I could not relax (always around him), I obsessed about him constantly (when I wasn't with him), my mind was always spinning (why, why, why)?. I did get some relief for about twenty months when I only saw him occasionally at work.

Then. . .one day. . .he was there again. I understand the trauma bond thing betrayed. I think that is something I am going to need professional help with. He drove by me on Friday afternoon. I was talking to my daughter on the phone and when I recongnized his vehicle. . .I don't remember another thing that we talked about. I just stared at his car, watched him turn the corner, I didn't even remember where I was going. This is not good. . .then he called and left a message in my voice mail.

This weekend. . .I have thought of him more than I have since the "incident". Oh such a tangled mess my head has been in. I'm so glad I can throw that out here and you all can understand what I'm going through. Anyone else would scold me for even having a second thought. The thing is. . .I don't WANT to think about him. He is an INTRUDER. . .

I can see where the NO CONTACT thing is VITAL! This reminds me of a crack addict that was clean for a week and then has a "slip". It sets you (me) back to day one again. It was like I was "clean" until Friday and now I'm starting over. . .two days into recovery. :-)

I often think it would do me well to move away from here. . .I feel the pull. . .especially this weekend.

Is this typical? I find it scary sorta. . .like he is using his mind to pull me back. Is this anything you or any others have experienced?

I'm a little unnerved by this.

Thanks for being here. . .

finished

>>" I can't number the times we would "talk" and afterwords I would think "he didn't answer ANY of my questions" or worse, his answer had a double message. "


The double messages, in all their communications. One appears, benign, the other evil. Almosts as if two parts of them, are speaking or acting at once.

And such a horrible spot they put us in with their double binds. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Almost freezes you into inaction. <<

Wow! Betrayed, you hit it on the spot for me. Frozen I am, slowing thawing out. I love this forum. When my toughts get stuck in the crazy mess I have been in with the P., I just come here and know that I'm not alone, and you guys really do understand.

>>Anyone else would scold me for even having a second thought. The thing is. . .I don't WANT to think about him. He is an INTRUDER. . .

I can see where the NO CONTACT thing is VITAL! This reminds me of a crack addict that was clean for a week and then has a "slip". It sets you (me) back to day one again. It was like I was "clean" until Friday and now I'm starting over. . .two days into recovery. :-) <<

Hi Finished,
Just saw you were online, and wanted to say hi. I truly understand the addiction. My counselor says I'm addicted. I have many slips. He is an intruder into my mind also.

Every word, every action, every look, is a part of his game.

The P. called me friday, confused about why I don't call him as much anymore. Just bizarre. I have told him so many times, that I just can't play anymore. Sometimes, I think he has P. blackouts. Or its just part of the making me feel like Im nuts. Oh well, the last three years have made me a little nuts. But Im learning to find some humor in it, to survive.

betterway

Sounds like you and I have alot in common.

Betterway

" I often think it would do me well to move away from here. . .I feel the pull. . .especially this weekend.

Is this typical? I find it scary sorta. . .like he is using his mind to pull me back. Is this anything you or any others have experienced?

I'm a little unnerved by this"


I think it is really typical, from my own experience and many of my friends who have been in abusive relationships. The P seems to know, exactly how to manipulate our minds. They will do anything to have us keep them in our thoughts, good or bad, as long as we are thinking about them. They will go for any reaction from us as long as they can get our attention. He knew driving by you, would have you thinking about him, thats why he called later to re-enforce it.

Just thought of a couple of techniques he used on me:

The P, one time when he was over visiting us at home, took my little tiny dog( 5 pounds) and tossed him on his black labs back. His dog snapped at my dog. I immediately said, "stop it, what are you doing". I was frightened his dog would bit my dog in half. He told me he had trained his dog to accept a budgie to sit on his dogs head, by using the exact same procedure. He said, after a while the dog gets use to it. and then starts liking it.


He told me his dog is comforted by leaving a shirt or item of clothing of his in the dogs bed, when he leaves the dog on its own. He used this same procedure on me. He would leave his laundry at my home, for days, and insist that I not bring it to him at the store, but to leave it there and he would pick it up. Everytime I saw that basket of his laundry, I thought about him.


This is basically a couple of the exact same procedures P's use. He was training me just like his dog. He knew exactly what he was doing.



" Then. . .one day. . .he was there again. I understand the trauma bond thing betrayed. I think that is something I am going to need professional help with. He drove by me on Friday afternoon. I was talking to my daughter on the phone and when I recongnized his vehicle. . .I don't remember another thing that we talked about. I just stared at his car, watched him turn the corner, I didn't even remember where I was going. This is not good. . .then he called and left a message in my voice mail. "


Sounds like you were going into a trance state. Pretty normal, too, after encounters with a P. If you have anymore encounters with him, just to ground yourself, take deep, slow breaths. It really helps.



" I can see where the NO CONTACT thing is VITAL! This reminds me of a crack addict that was clean for a week and then has a "slip". It sets you (me) back to day one again. It was like I was "clean" until Friday and now I'm starting over. . .two days into recovery. :-) "


I am sorry he did this to you. Are you feeling better today?
It's amazing how fast they can set us back, and they do seem to know it. You know how you can FEEL or sense how someone is staring at you from across a room. I wonder if they use that same type of energy?

>Every word, every action, every look, is a part of his game.<

Thank you Betterway. . .I need to make this information a part of my awareness. I don't think I've done that to date. I know I've read that they want attention, good or bad, but didn't see how that applied to me. I'm slowly "getting" it. Figuring out all these "mind games" is exhausting. BUT better than IGNORANCE.

>Sometimes, I think he has P. blackouts.<

LOL. . .that's a good one! Personally. . .I don't think they even process "NO". . .it just means "try another approach".

>Oh well, the last three years have made me a little nuts.<

Ditto there. . .I haven't found the humor yet though. . .I'm angry that I have wasted so many good years trying to figue this out and sad because I was reasonalbly happy before this P. P#1 was an overt P. All his stuff was right "out there". I never wondered what was going on in his mind, he regularly let me know. I knew he was nuts. P#2 however, was a covert P. Sneaky, sly, cunning, baffling, mysterious, dark, brooding yet charming, helpful, kind (when necessary) and polite. I NEVER knew what was going on in his mind. Now I know why.

Thank you again for your post. . .it all helps!

Finished

Hi Everyone,

All your posts have brought up so much for me.

I was in a trance state for months after I left. It was a bizarre feeling that I would not want to experience again. I was brainwashed, slowly, subtly, and turned inside out. The aftermath was PTSD and brain fog. Much of that has improved. The remaining fog I blame on menopause.

NO CONTACT is imperative I believe. I know the pain of leaving. Thank God for this forum. Although I was not posting yet, reading helped me during that time of relentless despair and longing.

I thought about leaving my community too since my P resides within 20 miles of me. The more I became a survivor, and empowered by my anger, the less I wanted to leave. I am less fearful now, but vigilant.

Many Psychopaths that are also criminals escape prosecution. Many are able to convince others that the problem is us, that we are the ones who are crazy. My Psyhopath also meets the criteria for antisocial personality disorder. The police in his community want him for crimes that know he did, but do not have enough evidence to arrest. They told me that he is a con man, slippery, careful and highly intelligent. He knows how to cover his tracks and not get caught.

It took me a long time before "The Pull" subsided. It has been over 2 years for me. I still get that feeling from time to time. It does not last long. I am grateful to be back in the real world, and not under the spell of the Psychopath.

Hang in there my friends. It gets better.

Neverthesame

>He told me he had trained his dog to accept a budgie to sit on his dogs head, by using the exact same procedure. He said, after a while the dog gets use to it. and then starts liking it.<

>He told me his dog is comforted by leaving a shirt or item of clothing of his in the dogs bed, when he leaves the dog on its own. He used this same procedure on me.<

>This is basically a couple of the exact same procedures P's use. He was training me just like his dog. He knew exactly what he was doing.<

Now if that isn't enough to piss you off nothing will! Using dog techniques!!! (maybe we should get the water bottle and squirt it on the back of their neck when they start their stuff. . . just kidding. . .attempting to inject some wry humor here).

And saying the dog (us) learns to like it!!! Pretty appalling. . .I think this will help me if I really take that philosophy to heart!

>If you have anymore encounters with him, just to ground yourself, take deep, slow breaths. It really helps.<

I think I see I have moved into another phase of disconnecting with P. This is like learning a new skill. I see where I will have to break old habits and ways of thinking and reacting. Reading, educating myself and posting keeps me grounded in the reality of the personality disorder that I'm dealing with. The second part is this new part of remembering to breathe, and remind myself, it's all part of their game. Whew. . . .so glad you are all here for me. It helps so much to know I am not alone. . .

>You know how you can FEEL or sense how someone is staring at you from across a room. I wonder if they use that same type of energy? <

You know. . .I'm almost for certain sure of it! Just the diabolical nature of this personality indicates it. Especially the intensity part of their personality. . .

NO CONTACT has to be the only way to go. Once they have that hold. . .the only way to break it HAS to be DISTANCE. . . AND MORE IS BETTER IN THIS CASE.

I'm better. . .:-) a little . . .baby steps, baby steps. . . thanks so much!

Blessings. . .
finished

" The P. called me friday, confused about why I don't call him as much anymore. Just bizarre. I have told him so many times, that I just can't play anymore"



Hi Betterway,

Everytime you tell him that you just can't play anymore, you are playing. He has contact with you, which he wants, plus he gets you to explain and explain and explain, a favorite abusive technique of abusers. Think about how much energy and time you expend everytime you have to explain. He gets all that contact with you. He gets you thinking about him, trying to figure out a way, if you can just explain it properly, to get him to understand. Mind games.

These people are so much alike, it makes me sick.


There is a betterway, Betterway. No contact.

Betrayed.

I think my most "favorite" technique by an abuser, is the one where they say, " Are you okay?" They cock their head to the side, and with deep concern ask that question. It is always said, when you are doing just fine and feeling really good. You sit and think, "Why would they say that, do I not look okay? It causes a deep sickening feeling in your stomach. Suddenly, whatever good feelings you were having at the time, disappear. It is sooo subtle. It's brilliant. Verbal violence. They might as well of punched me in the stomach. I have had that one pulled on me more times than I can count, over my lifetime. Thank you Patricia Evans. I had been looking for the answer for that one for years.

Betrayed.