finished,
I stood up to the P. bully on a business issue today. Tried to be polite, but also firm with my answer. Scares me. I have this fear he will never speak to me again. Then I think what a blessing that would be. I am very wishy washy. Feelings of being destroyed if he never speaks to me again. Then feelings of knowing when he does, his games destroy my spirit. Wow! This website is such an eye opener. I like what you and betrayed were talking about "the trained dog". I am right where the P. wants me to be. But I also know he senses me getting better, and would love to pull me back in. He has new targets at the office for his charm, that he does on a personal and a business level to get what he wants. Hurts me so much to see him build these knew relationships that are so dellusional. One of the targets is so much like I use to be very naive, quiet, does her job, a good person. She is just eating it up, and who wouldn't. I would love to warn her, but she is caught up in the charm. Then the other target is very evil, and is probably a P. also. They deserve each other. This is one reason I do work from home, so I don't have to see the game being played out anymore. Someone on this website said that the "P. will pick new targets to get even with the old." Wow does he know how to get even. Understand what you said about addiction. He is one bad drug, I am trying to let go of. This P. has me so paranoid that I worry about writing on here, that he may somehow be reading what I write, and use it against me.
bye for now
Betterway

Hi Betterway,

Every time you contact him, you play his game.

It is a weird perverted deadly game Betterway.

Each day you stay is a step closer to losing yourself, and the harder it is to recover. I say this because of my own personal experience. I do not think I have another recovery in me.

I say this knowing the horrible bereft feelings, the twisting gnawing pain of a breaking heart, and the horror of being incredibly alone in the aftermath.

This is a difficult recovery. To those still on the fence...I say this with my whole heart......flee from the Psychopath... run away and do not look back....and let us help you. You are not alone.

Neverthesame

Thank you, ((((Neverthesame))),

You have a much more eloquent way to say No Contact than I do. It is not as simple as saying to someone, No Contact. As we all know, telling people to just say no to drugs, doesn't work, either. You are so correct in that it is a heart breaking, tough decision to make, to break away from them. To be dragged down into their craziness, is so hard to pull away from. They are such masters at manipulation and at engaging people, its hard for normal people to fight against. We are trained in society to resolve conflict, to try and get along with others and not hurt their feelings,and peace making, for society to function. It just does not work with abusers or P's. These are not rational human beings, but we keep thinking they are. That is, until we can break our automatic response, and realize no matter what we say or do with these people it will not work. Its about control tactics and power over. They really are in a different reality than the rest of us.

Betrayed

betterway. . .

>I stood up to the P. bully on a business issue today. Tried to be polite, but also firm with my answer. Scares me. I have this fear he will never speak to me again. <

That's the paradox isn't it betterway? You don't want him to speak to you but are afraid he won't. I totally understand. Been there. . .am STILL there somedays. As long as you are in contact, he will speak to you. You probably won't like how. . . but he will speak to you.

The process is like this according to what I have read. When they are done with you they devalue you then discard you. I can vouch for that. I managed to live through the ending.

>I am very wishy washy. Feelings of being destroyed if he never speaks to me again. Then feelings of knowing when he does, his games destroy my spirit. Wow! This website is such an eye opener.<

It was for me too! When I found it I knew I had found the answer.

I know I stuck around as long as I did because I was trying to understand how it all fit. I was stunned by his behavior and thought I had done something terribly wrong to push away this wonderful friend. It HAD to be my fault, something I did. After all we had been friends for almost four years before he made any overture. And even then I did all the talking. I could never pin him down for a verbal confirmation but he was giving and sending every signal of a man in love.

I have an X-P. He told me he loved me ALL the time yet his actions and words never showed it at all.

Now I get a new P who doesn't TELL me he loves me but shows by his loving kindness, courteous and polite gentlemanly behavior AND constant presense that he does.

P#2 was a far more devious P. He knew how to work me without giving me anything. Everything was in my mind. I was reading and interperting it just the way he wanted me too and he never had to say a thing. He is a true diabolical P. I tramua bonded with this P to the almost the highest degree. I know for certain sure he is like a drug to me. I can even "feel" when he needs a narcissist supply. I begin to get thoughts of how to communicate my love and devotion to him. Very, very sick. This is not an easy thing for me to admit, but it is true. I must admit it to get well. . .I see no point in being dishonest with myself or others anymore. Maybe my honesty will help others as well as myself.

>But I also know he senses me getting better, and would love to pull me back in.<

I was twenty months without "being" with P. I actually even got to the point I didn't even think about him to much. Then. . .one day, I started thinking about him. Even though I didn't see him. . .psysically. . .I know he sensed it and he started in again. He started calling and talking to me in that soft voice. . .I even sensed the danger. I really didn't even want to be "with" him but I seemed unable to tell this guy no. This really is a serious game they play and the stakes are very high. I about lost my life.

I hope that now that you are getting stonger you'll be able to commit to NO CONTACT - NO RESPONSE.

> He has new targets at the office for his charm, that he does on a personal and a business level to get what he wants. Hurts me so much to see him build these knew relationships that are so dellusional. One of the targets is so much like I use to be very naive, quiet, does her job, a good person. She is just eating it up, and who wouldn't. I would love to warn her, but she is caught up in the charm. <

If he had his eye on other targets, he is done with you, unless you are useful to him for any reason. You will never be idealized again. It is devalue and discard from here on. That has been a hard one for my to accept, Betterway. It is hard to believe. . .I mean REALLY believe. But every day the evidence mounts. I keep reading and absorbing the information. If I don't I could forget real fast.

>Then the other target is very evil, and is probably a P. also.<

Ditto here Betterway. There was also an evil woman P in our store. I remember one day she said "I just LOVE my job" as she slid her eyes slyly over to P. P made this " YEWW!" noise, like they had a little private joke going on there. I thought of her after my last night with P. One another post I talked about the clicks I heard and the feeling we were being watched. Then. . .one day recently, I remembered that remark. NOW I hate to think about what that meant (tragically, I think I know).

>This P. has me so paranoid that I worry about writing on here, that he may somehow be reading what I write, and use it against me.<

I've also had those thoughts. I try to be careful not to leave to many clues. I believe him to be capable of anything. I pray for my safety and take precautions. I pray for the others here as well. My life has been changed forever because to this henious P.

You are on the right track trying to extract yourself. A real relationship with him is hopeless. It really is. I have times where I ask myself. . .is he really a P. " Maybe if" . . . .and off to obsessing. Yes. . .he is a P. a henious, murderous P.

This web site is a great blessing to share and receive support. I'm so glad you are here. We receive strength and hope to keep us moving toward freedom. There seems only one way out Betterway (and finished) :-) NO CONTACT - NO RESPONSE!

Blessings to you. . .
finished

>>They really are in a different reality than the rest of us.<<

OMG I told the P. that one time. He definetly has a different realty. My counselor has been working with me for quite some time to make the final break. Ive come along way, but still have along way to go. I'm finding a "betterway" and being here is part of it. thanks! betterway

Neverthesame-

How grateful I am for your post!

>I was in a trance state for months after I left. It was a bizarre feeling that I would not want to experience again. I was brainwashed, slowly, subtly, and turned inside out. The aftermath was PTSD and brain fog. Much of that has improved.<

That is so reassuring. This is the "phase" I must be in. All the aftermath, the fallout. I have days where I'm still in shock. Not as bad though and some days are actually quite good.

>Many Psychopaths that are also criminals escape prosecution. Many are able to convince others that the problem is us, that we are the ones who are crazy. My Psyhopath also meets the criteria for antisocial personality disorder. The police in his community want him for crimes that know he did, but do not have enough evidence to arrest. They told me that he is a con man, slippery, careful and highly intelligent. He knows how to cover his tracks and not get caught.<

I feel in my heart of hearts that this guy is involved in criminal activities. He is so covert and sneaky. Very intelligent and extraordinarly aloof. Appropriately hostile. His business is failing and yet he managed to purchase a VERY expensive sports car a week after we were together. I have observed first hand his lying and cheating behavior (business wise as well as personal).

>t took me a long time before "The Pull" subsided. It has been over 2 years for me. I still get that feeling from time to time. It does not last long. I am grateful to be back in the real world, and not under the spell of the Psychopath.<

It is such a relief to hear as that mirrors so much of how I am feeling right now.

I feel inspired. . . very relieved. . .and hopeful!

Thank you so much for sharing,
finished

Neverthersame. . .

Ditto to Betrayed comments on your post.

I will print that one to keep handy. I needed to hear those words myself.

Thank you again . . .so much!
finished

>>When they are done with you they devalue you then discard you. I can vouch for that.<<
this was one of the hardest things for me to handle. That my best friend/business partner would just blow me off as if I was a nobody, to go play with his new targets. When I say play, i mean to charm, to manipulate situations to be with them, has a flirtaious quality to it all, he acts as if he is interested in what ever they are interested in even if he isn't, he tunes in to the core of the person to gain control. I see him just sitting there watching how the whole office works taking it all in to see what his next move should be. He sees what they are missing in their lives and then so kindly feels the need (but only temporarily). He is not an actual boyfriend to any of his targets, although he tries to make others believe it. He used to joke how others in the office thought him and I were more than friends (we were only friends). He told me others were just jealous of how him and I had so much fun doing our jobs. And we did, we made it fun, we deal with lots of people on a daily basis in our jobs, which can be stressful, but he took that out of it all. When he blew me off, I was just so shocked, I thought we had a good friendship and a great business working relationship. I even put and end to his flirtatious BS(with me) and he didn't seem to mind, we just worked so good together. He is very competitive with the other men in the office. All the women have to be "his". If any of the woman go out to lunch with one of the men, it is almost a given that he will ask them out the next day. If any of the woman talk to any of the men, he tells me they are just trying to "pimp" them. He will interupt conversations the men are having with the woman. It really helps me to write all this out. Makes me see the light even more. Are all these woman just so blind. I guess I was once. Wow what a toxic work environment I was in. Can't believe I stayed so long. Okay, now Im paranoid, finished, if the P. read this post he would know it was him. (or finished do you think my story is pretty common, or is this P. pretty unique?) My career is so important to me, and once i became a threat to him (because I was on to his stupid games) he destroyed my spirit for my career and for friendship. He ganged up with some of the people in the office to make my worklife terrible. When I would confront him he would tell me "i don't know what you are talking about", "your just imagining things". He has isolated me in the office. He told me the other guys were only nice to me to get back at him, that they don't even like me. Now I know why I have PTSD. no wonder i do. I also wonder sometimes if I'm just crazy, maybe he is not a P. Sorry so long, got on a roll. Thanks for letting me share. betterway

>>That my best friend/business partner would just blow me off as if I was a nobody, to go play with his new targets. When I say play, i mean to charm, to manipulate situations to be with them, has a flirtaious quality to it all, he acts as if he is interested in what ever they are interested in even if he isn't, he tunes in to the core of the person to gain control<<

That so stands out to me. You put into words better than I have to describe my work situation with P. Especially your insight and description of manipulating situations and acting as if he is interested in whatever their interested in (even though he isn't) . . .and tunes in to the core of the person to gain control. I find that profoundly insightful. Again, you described my experience also. . .to a T.

>>He sees what they are missing in their lives and then so kindly fillls the need (but only temporarily).<<

I have not posted much about my work relationship with P but so much of what you are posting is a reflection of my own experience. Erie how they seem to follow pretty predictably the same pattern.

>>He used to joke how others in the office thought him and I were more than friends (we were only friends)<<.

Ditto again. . .and he was coming on in such a way that WOULD make people think we were (more than friends). Very unsettling to SEE this right now. . .

>>When he blew me off, I was just so shocked, I thought we had a good friendship and a great business working relationship.<<

I didn't know until now that the FIRST trauma I experienced with him occured when he immediately began to withdraw from me! That was after he asked me how I felt about him (almost four years of friendship/ business relationship). I told him I was crazy about him (key word crazy) afterwards, I realized he didn't tell me ANYTHING.

I believe after he made the sexual conquest he probably had his next target all lined out. I was in SHOCK (trauma bonded) for years. At least five and a half.

That's why myself and others, encourage you to pay attention to the posts about taking your heart and run. It will not have a happy ending. It is impossible in this lifetime.

>>Wow what a toxic work environment I was in. Can't believe I stayed so long.<<

Sometimes (I speak for me) it just HAS to take the time it does for me to be able to accept the truth. I wasn't ready till now. Don't be hard on yourself. You didn't know. I still wouldn't know if I would not have stumbled into this forum four days after the most traumatic night in my life. The knowledge and support I found here is saving my life. I'm paying attention to what I've been told. NO CONTACT!

>>Okay, now Im paranoid, finished, if the P. read this post he would know it was him. (or finished do you think my story is pretty common, or is this P. pretty unique?)<<

Betterway. . .this is just an opinion (based on what I've learned about this personality). First, he probably isn't even interested in what your'e doing if it isn't useful to him. Secondly, if he did see it, he would probably be diabolically amused and delighted to hear of your pain. If you are concerned about him getting on your computer, just log off this web site each time, and use the cache cleanup software they offer here.

Personally, (again just my opinion) he has dismissed you. I can see P nonchantly shrugging and indifferently moving on. You haven't posted anything that would point specifically to any industry or business. It's all been very general.

>>My career is so important to me, and once i became a threat to him (because I was on to his stupid games) he destroyed my spirit for my career and for friendship.<<

I hear you! The P I was with was very jealous of my reputation in the business and the success I had. After I came to work with him. . .I was NEVER recogonized for any of my accomplishments. If anyone complimented me he was quick to get out of there. He never acknowledged me. The only thing that saved me was like you, I could work out of the office. . .IT WAS SO TOXIC THERE.

>> I also wonder sometimes if I'm just crazy, maybe he is not a P. Sorry so long, got on a roll. Thanks for letting me share. betterway<<

Your'e not crazy Betterway. It's THEIR system that's crazy. Once we get trapped it's like we have to work out way out backwards. I encourage you to keep reading, learning and posting. Your post on the work sitituation really helped me see some the workplace dynamics in my experience. It's how we'll heal.

Thank you for posting, Betterway, you helped me alot today. I see things I hadn't seen before. . .

Gratefully,

finished

>>You put into words better than I have to describe my work situation with P. Especially your insight and description of manipulating situations and acting as if he is interested in whatever their interested in (even though he isn't) . . .and tunes in to the core of the person to gain control. I find that profoundly insightful.<<

Alot of those words are things I have learned from reading on this forum. And I now have a better understanding of the world I have lived in for the past 3 yrs.

Who gives the P. the right to use and abuse people the way he does. Why do people allow it to continue. He once told me that he knew of many things he could do to make me mad. Just him saying that makes me furious. He also said that he could make the people in the office act however he wanted them to. And he has. They are his puppets.

I have to keep my memory of the P. world to a minimum. If I let to much creep in at a time, it can trigger my PSTD. However, I think it does help me to stay grounded if I think about what the P. has said to me. It helps me stay in reality that the P . is who I think he is.

In the past I also decided that it doesnt matter rather the guy is a P. or not, doesn't matter rather he is doing things to me purposely or not. What does matter is that knowing and being around him was making me absolutely crazy. And I had to do something about it. Of course "NO CONTACT" (or almost none) has been what helps the most. Finding this site and seeing that he fits almost every criteria of the P., has been a total blessing. I have found something to help me in the healing process.

A couple of sayings I have heard that help me alot are:
"Nothing changes if nothing changes"
"If you keep on doing what you have always done, you will keep on getting what you have always gotten"

Hope everybody has a Happy Thanksgiving!

betterway