Hi Molly. I don't know about you, but I am so hypersensitive to abuse now, they are scared to come within 40 yards of me. LOL

Betrayed.

Finished,

I read some but not all of your post. I read tons of litterature on the subject but this is the first time I read testimonies. And yours sound similars. I feel I am a magnet for p's. Great! I have been married to one, but was young so i imagine i would know better when older. the new p's was highly intelligent and manipulative. therefore i have been trapped in a friendship/relationship for 2 years. although i was always feeling compelled for more development in the relationship i had the feeling that something was wrong. it was a professor from the university i had graduated. at first, i was scared to create conflicts, but then once i thought i was putting limits, it became worst.i guess he knew the game already.
i like when you said something eversince you met the p you head was spinning, that is how my mind became. i tend to obsess a little but that has been worst than usual, because words are so dearly important to p's they know which one to use. i never had anything sexual with him but he knew i was interested in him, and at first he was always hitting on me with strategies that I now see typical of a p.
anyhow although he had not rob me and nor violated me but has played with my mind tremendously. he has discredited me professionally and has made me put my face for him many times. I guess i went to the worst insults of my life. now that i am not isolated anylonger i do hear some similar comments from some people around. but i guess that with some of the people in his milieu he must have been more careful or probably not but the comments i get are always restricted. I feel all of us are scared to comment fearing the worst. it is quite sick.when i remember all of it, i get scared because it was crazy and unexplainable.eventhough i have some friends psychologists, we weren't able to understand what was going on else that it wasn't not healthy. but surely i feel great that i am not alone, we have had all those experience.

Hi Betrayed. . .!!!

It is good to be back here! I've missed you all.

I tried to post last night but my computer was not cooperating. . .

This has been a great weekend for me. I spent Thanksgiving with part of my family and it was wonderful. And. . . for the first time in four years, I put up my Christmas tree. It has been so bad emotionally for me with the P thing that I have not even been able to get the energy up to do Christmas. So. . .this feels like a HUGE milestone for me!!! Gosh. . .maybe (just maybe) I'm "coming" BACK!!!

(((((Betrayed))))) >>Yes it was me that held your hand and got you to go back to that battered womens center. How are those group sessions going?

Well. . .this is going to sound like overkill but here's what I'm involved in. On Monday night I have a group at the Call Rape center. On Tuesday night I have group with the battered women. DODV (Department of Domestic Violence). Wednesday, because I cannot afford my $90 per session counselor every week, I take advantage of counseling offered at the YWCA. I attend a group with them on Saturaday morning.

The HARDEST without a doubt is the domestic violence. I have been twice. The first one was on wife and date rape. That about did me in. I have been dealing with P#2 and that issue. When they brought up that subject. . .then I was right smack dad in the middle of P#1 and his abuse as well. I didn't even know what he had been doing to me was against the law. It is hard to face the reality of it all but I am determined to work on myself so I can finally be free from the nest of P's including the one I've married and the one I've fallen love with.

I so appreciate your encouragement and especially your supportive words that urged me to go back. I have decades of living and loving P's. I need lots of help to extract myself from their pull. . .

Thank you again. . .so much. . .I would not have not made it this far without all the help and support I have received here. I am blessed for sure!
finished

>> Anyone who has grown up in a dysfunctional family ( is there any that are truly functional??), has learned to do this from childhood, to protect ourselves from the stark reality of whats really going on. <<

Another very good book I am reading right now is "Why is it Always About You" by Sandy Hotchkiss about saving yourself from the narcissists in your life. I haven't finished it yet, but I now have a very CLEAR picture or my family or orgins dynamics. My mother was a narcissist. I was the scapegoat, my brother the golden child. I have a younger sister but she was more like the lost child not really involved in the scapegoat/golden child dynamic. NOW. . .I see. My mom projected all her shame and bad "stuff" on me, and my brother mirrored all her "good" stuff. I was programmed to fail. I couldn't have won. In our family system, it was an all or nothing mentality. It has already explained SO MUCH to me.

Had this episode with P#2 not happened, I would have never been put in a position to dig so deeply for answers. I am now finding peices to the puzzle that have been a mystery my whole life. The greatest discovery however is finding out. . .they lied. I always was trying to "prove" I was better than what they thought. Now. . .it's no longer necessary. I have discovered the truth for myself. Best part is now, no one can take it away! That is probably the greatest gift I have received in this whole deal. I am finding myself. . .at last.

>>This is not about blaming our parents or ourselves.<<

Another thing I discovered is my mother was also a product of her family of orgin. . .it wasn't ALL her fault. She just was not capable. Her emotional and psychological development was stunted by HER parents. No, it is not about blame anymore, it is about finding answers that make sense so I can leave behind the lies I believed about myself and embrace a new way of thinking.

>>I want to be part of a loving family, <<

(((((betrayed)))) that is basic to every human being. I know I want to love and be loved.

Even now, in some ways, I consider P#2 to be a gift. I never was in love before. I was always to scared to let that happen. Even though and with everything I've been through I now know what it is like to be in love.

Unfortunately, I didn't get the "be loved" part. :-)

>> My whole life I have surrounded myself with people who don't really care. The P experience was just the final kicker of them all. <<

Me too (((((betrayed)))). I am so grateful that it is never to late to learn.

Somehow, somewhere deep inside of me, I know I'm going to come out better for all of it. I just didn't KNOW there were people like this. . .I didn't even have a CLUE. NOW. . .I see it EVERYWHERE!

We are making progress sister friend. . .(one day at a time) :-)
finished

Hopeful

>>i get scared because it was crazy and unexplainable.even though i have some friends psychologists, we weren't able to understand what was going on else that it wasn't not healthy.<<

My quest for answers came within just a few months after things began to unravel. I still find it pretty unbelievable that no one could give me an answer. I didn't know what I was dealing with until I found this forum (two months ago), so it doesn't surprise me that your friends cannot understand.

I just finished a GREAT book called "Why is it Always about You" by Sandy Hotchkiss. It has EXPLAINED so much to me about their behavior and about MY OWN behavior and WHY I'm attracted to this personality. It is written in laymans terms and is pretty easy to read considering the content. I am only halfway through but have already found relief and answers. More peices to the puzzle. This has all been a mystery to me too, hopeful.

>>but has played with my mind tremendously.<<

((((hopeful))) My heart goes out to you. This is a treacherous game they play. If you are new to the forum I encourage you to keep reading and posting. You have probably read the advice of no contact - no response. Not easy when your heart is involved. My head and heart work together and I was letting my heart be the boss. Things got extremely critical. Now I'm ready to take the steps to get out and move on. There is no easy way but you will find validation and support here. It has been a school and sanctuary for me. :-)

>>i get scared because it was crazy and unexplainable.<<

The more I learn about what I'm dealing with the better equipped I am to protect myself. Are you in any danger hopeful? If so, I urge you to take all the necessary precautions. . .

I'm so glad you are here (((hopeful))). I have learned there is a way out. I wish you well.
finished

finished,

I am don't think I am in trouble. The man will obviously say really bad things about me but a lot of people knows already about him and I am sure he will do it until he dies. I think they don t know it all, they know he is not reliable, but that he plays deep mind games, i don t think they know. He is unfortunately a pretty well known academic, very intelligent and that is what is the most scary. Students on a short term relationship can't realize what is going on. He hooks them and take them for a ride. He knows how to get you.
What i would like to hear is what kind of people are we to attract those men? one, i am sure is that we are honest. it must be written on our forehead that we are tolerant and weak. I feel i don tknow anymore how to get myself out of trouble and I am a little scare. it's been 6 months i have decided to move on and I have crossed him and was almost about to start thinking about him again. apparently in those conditions you have to listen to your friends, zero contact is the only solution.
Finished, I think you are the one that have said in early post that you were friend for three years with that man prior to what happens to you. Is that right? and what kind of relationship was it? During those years, did he have any other friends, or girlfriends, and what is the age of the man? Three years is long. Did you talk a lot on the phone, or were you just having dinners and drinks? Did he lie? Did he attract other woman? I found a website that explain exactly what I had gone through back in May. The website had dissapear but it was the best to describe subcriminal sociopath, that is the people that are still functional. With that im mind, I try not to explain any further, but it always comes back to me because I was so hurt and now i just want to concentrate on not to attract those kind of men.I guess by understanding what other woman were to those men that will make me understand my behavior, although I am starting to know pretty well what is going on. My only problem is that since he was in the professional field, I have to said, I am less enthusiast then I was before... anyhow it is nice to hear that some other people have had the same devastating experience.

I guess that what makes me the most disconcerted is that I was early in my life married to a p. I, with all the lucks, escaped that tremendous atmosphere. I thought I would never fall for a p again. the first one was very obvious p, a delinquent for life, drug addict and alcoholic and disfunctional in term of finance. i thought then that it would be easy to run away from those kind of man.in my second life, in a professional one, i fell for the same kind of person but this time with all pathologies hidden. at first, i couldn't understand that it was the same kind of pathology. i was very impressed by his intelligence and was happy to become his friend. because the intelligent one mirror so well their victim, one feel that there is more than enough affinities to build a relationship. it was a schock to realize that it was a p as well. i will now underestimate my capabilities to navigate in that world full of them. probably we should invent redflags list to download on palm. joking. i considered myself an intelligent person, i have strong intuitions in most of my spheres but when it comes to men i intuitions are defectives.

Hopeful

>>Finished, I think you are the one that have said in early post that you were friend for three years with that man prior to what happens to you. Is that right? and what kind of relationship was it? During those years, did he have any other friends, or girlfriends, and what is the age of the man? Three years is long. Did you talk a lot on the phone, or were you just having dinners and drinks? Did he lie? Did he attract other woman? <<

We became acquainted through business. I worked for a corporation that had agreements with independant businesses to sell their product. It was my job to oversee that segment of the corporation. Also part of my job requirement was to recruit new businesses to increase distribution.

P approached me and applied for a distribution. He was very polite, a gentleman and a good businessman. He was very knowledgable, had a successful company and I knew he would do a good job. He had previously been a distributor for another company that sold a similar product so he also knew the business. Very successful with the previous company.

At that time, some of the other independants, knew of him applying and told me he was "bad news". I thought they were disgruntled because they did not want the added competition. However, it was my decision and I signed him on.

I had the sense from the beginning that he was very high maintainence. He seemed to have a big ego but a lot of these guys were like that and it was another part of my job to be a "cheerleader" so to speak. To offer support, validation and encouragement. So. . .I really didn't think much about it. It went with the territory.

But here's what I noticed. . .he went out of his way for me. Not at the beginning but after awhile, he just began to be a part of my life. He would call, morning, noon and night. It was always conversation about business and stuff like that. I could tell that he liked me but he never made a pass or acted out of line at all. But I had this feeling. . .

I was married (to another P, I call him P#1). I sensed, like I said that he more than liked me. I was not paying any attention to if he was with other women or doing any flirting because I didn't care. I loved his friendship and attention. It was enough for me. We would do lunch, business. Never dinner. . .I'm married, don't date. . I had never had an affair before and didn't want to have an affair. But I was starting to be very drawn to him. If he didn't call as usual, I would start wondering why. . .or I would find some excuse to call him. I was being pulled in. I felt my heart opening to him. Sometimes, he would call in the evening and on weekends. It was wonderful having someone paying attention to me. I didn't realize it then, but I was starved for affection and he was feeding a deep need in me. I felt myself falling in love. I began to "depend" (sound like a drug addiction?) on it. Now. . .when he didn't call for a few days, I began to feel anxious.

So we did this dance for over three years.

Then. . .my job situation changed. Suddenly, we had no legitimate reason to stay connected. Business was our connection. We rarely talked about anything real personal, which I was glad because I was humilated and ashamed of the way P#1 treated me. I never let the conversation go there.

So now, I'm in the job market. P wanted me to go into business with him. I was VERY uneasy about that as I could tell from experience he was a controlling person. I felt he would begin to want to control me. I already had one P (didn't know he was a P then) trying to control me and I knew I didn't want another one.

This is probably where the beginning of the end started. I went to work for a competitor. He still called, still came around, we still met for lunch. . .and then came the day he asked me how I felt about him. The rest is history. It all unraveled after that. . .stories inside stories hopeful.

He is around 45 years old, very, very handsome, quiet and reserved, (until enraged) very smart (sneaky), college education (very intelligent) comes from a good family (or so it seems). Successful businessman.

The difference between him and P#1 is P#1 was very overt, like your ex, in his P-ness. All his "stuff" was out in the open. What was going on in his head came out his mouth. P#2 was very COVERT. All his stuff was mind stuff. Once he conquered me sexually, he withdrew. Very swiftly, the calls came fewer and farther between, he talked only briefly when he did call, quit doing lunch, coffee. He quit coming by. And in this. . .I was in a state of SHOCK. Here was someone I thought I could trust. He never said the words but all the actions said he loved me. Tramua bonding at its finest. . .I am only now finding the reason for the bizarre and eratic behavior. Thank God! Knowledge is the only way out.

>>What i would like to hear is what kind of people are we to attract those men? one, i am sure is that we are honest. it must be written on our forehead that we are tolerant and weak.<<

(((Hopeful))) If you consider a desire to be loved weak. . . than that is my weakness. What they exploit is our vulnerablities. That is what P's are "scanning" for. The vulnerable one is who they target for exploitation. When I discovered my own vulnerablities I was in a better place. I could begin working on myself and my recovery. The only way out is through.

In my case, I was loney and starved for attention and affection. In all other areas or my life, I had it pretty together. I was successful in my career, had good friends, have some wonderful kids that I enjoy good relationships with. BUT. . .my personal life with P#1 was empty, non supporting and loveless. P#1 treated me like a peice of trash. No respect. No support emotionally. Get the picture?

I was a sitting duck for this. And then. . .the history. . .I thought he was my friend. He zeroed in on my weakness. The only was to get me was through my heart! And he won it but after he got it he didn't want it anymore. The thrill was in the chase.

What I have discoved since this has happened, I'm learning more about my weaknesses than my strengths. And hopefully that knowledge will help P proof my life. . .

(and your life too. . .((((( hopeful)))))
finished

Hopeful

>> probably we should invent redflags list to download on palm. joking.<<

Very good idea!!!

>> i considered myself an intelligent person, i have strong intuitions in most of my spheres but when it comes to men i intuitions are defectives. <<

Me too hopeful. But we are learning!!! :-)

finished

Hi Finished. Good for you, going to all those groups. It must be nice talking in person to people who understand and have been there.

Glad to hear you are doing so well. Christmas?? I'm still trying to get ready for last year's. LOL


A customer told me about some good books today that you might be interested in reading.

Lenore Terr M.D.
UNCHAINED MEMORIES; TRUE STORIES OF TRAUMATIC MEMORIES, LOST AND FOUND
New York: Basic Books, 1994. Actual case studies that offer a wealth of information on the nature of memory. Explains the difference between splitting and dissociating, denial and displacement, the meaning of repression and fugue states, why we remember some details of traumatic events and not others, the difference between long-term and short-term memory and more.

And this one by the same author.


Too Scared to Cry: Psychic Trauma in Childhood
In 1976, 26 Californian children were kidnapped and buried alive for motives never explained. All the children survived. This event marked the beginning of the author\s study on the effect of trauma on children. Terr shows how trauma has affected not only the children she has treated but all of us. Contents: Introduction: a first glance at childhood trauma. Part 1 The emotions of childhood psychic trauma: terror; rage; denial and numbing; unresolved grief; shame and guilt. Part 2 The mental work of childhood psychic trauma: misperception; time goes away; reme.

I have read the one book. It was excellent.


Betrayed.