This information applies to anyone being abused so don't be put off by the title.

Jan

http://www.498a.org/contents/dv/MenAbusedByWomen.pdf

Here is an interesting article about women who abuse men. So little is known, hopefully society will begin to research and provide input on this subject. Personally and this only my non scientific take on things there are a higher amount of identified women Psychopath than the statistics show.

Women who abuse men

I agree with you Diane and I run a blog that has information regarding female offenders, including research articles, transcripts from shows, video, etc. The URL for the site is http://whataboutwhenmomistheabuser.blogspot.com/ Hopefully there may be something there that is of help.

Hi BloggerT, I just had a chance to read your excellent site. I have always thought that women who abuse is not spoken about enough, I would even go so far as to say the % of women Psychopaths is no where near what the stats say.

Di

Actually my wife a little bit of psychopath, sometimes she throw everything at my own face.
I think I need to bring her to psychiatrist to examine her.
I have a little problem no once will take care of my two babies if she will be examine at any rate

Hello Ashgray

I presume you have come to the forum for information and advice so could you tell us a bit about the problems you have with your wife and we may be able to help you find the information you are looking for.

Why do you think she may be psychopathic? She may be suffering from many things including post natal depression, has she been to see a doctor since she had your last child?

Hopefully your wife is not psychopathic and I would like to ask you why you think she is. None of us at the forum can make a diagnosis but we can show you where to look for resources so you can decide whether you need to look more closely at the symptoms of that and other possibilities.

Please feel free to ask any questions you have.

Regards
Jan

Hi there

An interesting song that touches on a relationship with a woman that sounds a bit like a Psychopath.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yur15Brfvhs

The "something perfect" sounds like the mask she created to woo him initially.

Cheers
Dude

Hi Dude, my personal theory is if the Psychopath's don't play nice while they are worming information out of their new victim they wouldn't get many to go for their agenda. They need to show the "good" side in order to lure a victim. It is like if someone is mean/rude or otherwise unseemly a victim would never get in their trap.

Di

Hi Dude

It’s so difficult to interpret the reactions you mention. I do agree with Di that there is a performance laid on to attract a victim. I suppose the timescale and context of the things you mention will be relevant.
When did she cry at films, who was observing and did she think it was the expected response or a natural reaction? My partner’s kid used to watch us watching films or TV and copy our responses. If we laughed-he laughed but he got ahead of himself and tried to pre-empt us and failed miserably. He laughed at the wrong times and would look at us to see what we were doing. If we watched sad, emotional programmes he would show no response whatsoever and get very bored.

Being friendly to people is difficult to quantify, it could be to show observers that she is capable of making contact but it could have been a genuine flash of bonding…..tricky one. Same for the mobile phone being placed where it’s needed….unless she was the person who would phone you first.

Buying nice things …yet again it could be for two reasons. Because she wanted to give you nice things OR to let other people see what she had given you.

As for anyone who teases or mistreats animals scores minus 1000 with me.

Psychopaths don’t think in the conventional way…they plot.
When your ex said ‘out of sight out of mind’ reminded me of ‘Damien’. Every day when he came home he said “what have you both done all day?” Out of sight, out of mind? We were advised to respond with “waiting for you” and it worked. He never asked again.

I asked Damien during one of those moments when it’s right, who he loved, He was totally thrown. He did the sideways glance, screwed up face but no response. He couldn’t answer as he was perplexed, he didn’t know what he was supposed to say.
When he did respond he chose his grandmother!!! Not his father (who had custody) giving him all he could and more.

There is so much more but I do think when these observations are made is important.

I'm just going to check out the link you posted.

Regards
Jan

Hi Jan

Your description of your partner's kid is truly chilling. It reminds me of hearing a few years back about a couple who adopted a Psychopath child. It caused huge damage and they sued the council successfully on the basis that it should have warned them. Thinking back she was never interested in watching anything emotional, prefering instead to watch documentaries. She would often fall asleep watching telly.

Did the kid say “what have you both done all day?” in a derogatory way as if you'd been doing nothing of any value/importance?

The blank stare is interesting. On one occasion we went to a night club. Despite my protests she stripped to her bra in full view of a group of incredulous lads. I told her to leave and I stayed to finish my drink, absolutely furious. I came out and found her sitting on the pavement with her back against a wall, staring into space. There was no expression on her face at all. Just a void - utter emptiness.

Dude

Hi Dude

In answer to your question, when the kid asked what we had been doing all day it was about control. Because we were out of sight he didn't know what was going on in his absence. He hated not knowing things, he was hypervigilant. Information was his currency so he needed as much as possible, he certainly never asked because he was interested in us.

He did sneer at everyone and devalue whatever they did but this was different.

Many people have the problem of adopting children with psychopathic tendencies, there are people on this forum. I can't say the the adoption agencies are entirely to blame as there is ignorance even amongst the professionals. These kids have 'skills' from an early age and able to fool those they come into contact with. There are also those of the 'hug them, tell them you love, give them a puppy and music lessons and the kid will be fine' brigade.

The kid would often be sent to his room for bad behaviour and he was able to sit there doing nothing for hours, just sitting on a chair staring blankly at nothing. He didn't play with toys, he didn't know how to and although he had a good reading age he rarely read a book. His father and I are avid readers so we browsed bookshops on a regular basis but the kid only wanted books just to have something bought for him not because he wanted to read them, We did buy him all the usual things like Harry Potter and classics like Chronicles of Narnia but he would only read what he peers were reading to compete with them about how many pages they had read. He never discussed what he read and I once saw him holding a book upside down for over an hour. He was using it to stare at me from behind it, I was watching TV and this is how he used to learn how people reacted to things so he could copy when a suitable occasion arose.

I thought that was really weird but I was enjoying catching him out but I didn't let on. I smiled and he must have wondered what the heck was going on as he wouldn't know what I was smiling about.

There were occasions he would read a book then question us about it if we had read it, he would then speak to another person repeating what we had said as though it was his own observations. He did the same with any other interests we had such as his father's interest in football and my interest in painting, pretending he was also interested. This is mirroring. Psychopaths have to copy other people to develop some sort of act to look like a normal person.
The football thing was the most obvious, he wasn't the slightest bit interested in football but would excitedly ask his father questions about it and of course he was more than happy to have the discussion thinking there was a glimmer of a father/son relationship. I could see the kid sneer....he had got a reaction from his father...his father would respond as he engineered.....the kid had control. To an outside observer this would have gone totally unnoticed or would have been accepted as positive.

It is one of those things that make you look like the crazy one if you tell others about it, they just don't get it.

When I got my materials out to paint and draw he would feign great interest and want to do the same. I knew what was coming every time! He would sit down then ask what he should draw. He had no creativity so when I made suggestion he refused them all. All he would draw was stick figures laying dead with a weapon of some description sticking out of it.

One thing I always found strange was the kid would avidly watch Coronation Street, as I've never seen it so I don't know what he got out of it, maybe someone could enlighten me. I don't know whether it's on TV in other countries or just the UK.
One day we made him sit and watch a documentary about a very disabled boy who was living an active life and was playing football. We were in tears watching this courageous child but 'Damien' was unmoved. As soon as it finished he just shrugged as if to say 'so what?'. When we asked what he thought he was blank, he didn't know what he was supposed to say as he couldn't care less about the boy.

I got a punched in the gut feeling that nothing penetrated this kid, no-one mattered to him. Sadness never touched him and the only time he cried was when he didn't get what he wanted.

The stripping thing....maybe that is a similar thing to the kid who would parade about naked in front of me or deliberately leave the toilet door open so I could see him pee. Most boys of his age would have done anything not to be seen naked by an adult and a woman at that!

I have to say I didn't find the kid chilling, I had no fear of him because I could see him for what he was and that allowed me to keep ahead of him.

I don't suppose you know anything about your ex's early life and anything she has told you would no doubt be her invention.

I hope you have some more observations.

Regards
Jan

I have a new resource posted that might interest you and some of your readers. It is a biblio of all the research, studies, etc on female offenders and their victims http://whataboutwhenmomistheabuser.blogspot.com/2010/01/female-sex-offenders-and-their-victims.html

Hi Blogger T

Thanks for the link. As before you have posted some very useful information.

I know you read here and wonder if you would like to let us know more?

Regards
Jan

Hello Jan,

I browse the site from time to time. I have experience working with different populations over the years including what some people call psychopaths, sociopaths, antisocial, etc.

Psychopathy is not really my main interest though and I have reservations about the term and its use.

Not sure what else you would like to know.

Hello Blogger T

I just wondered about your interest in our forum. I presumed since psychopathy and abuse go hand in hand that is where your interest lies.
I know you have posted some very good information in the past which is much appreciated, I think we tend to forget that women are abusers too. When women abuse men I'm sure most men find it difficult to speak out about it and that is where forums come into their own to support them.

You say you are unsure about the concept of psychopathy, could I ask exactly what you have difficulty with? In the DSM the official diagnosis is Antisocial Personality Disorder and further described with psychopathic traits or not. You probably already know that not all those with ASPD are criminal or psychopathic and a lot of people prefer to use the term sociopath to describe this category.

We are a support group for victims of psychopaths as that is the group who find it difficult to get any support from professionals. As psychopaths do not change their personality there is little point working with them to bring about change whereas someone who is antisocial but has a conscience has a better prognosis.
I think this problem of nomenclature is because of the perception that all psychopaths are like those portrayed in films or the ones who make the headlines.

It can be the non criminal psychopath who is the most insidious and causes so much distress as they are never caught up in the judicial system, they will never get a diagnosis.

I look forward to hearing more from you.

Regards
Jan

Actually I said I have reservations about the term and its use. It is hard to fully explain (well for me anyway) as when I write it it does not seem to come across as well as when I say to people.

Plus I don't like to debate the issue to deeply on a support site because I worry that someone may misunderstand and stay in an abusive relationship longer for hopes of change all because they mistook what I wrote.

Hello BloggerT

I understand what you mean about trying to explain your thoughts on controversial issues but please don't let that put you off. Most of us have had problems at some point trying to write about what we are trying to put across. We would really like to hear your views despite the fact that you have reservations about the term psychopathy and it's use. We have many lively debates and that is healthy and leads to further discussion.

I'm sure nothing you would say would be construed as recommending anyone should stay in an abusive relationship. By the time people come to this forum they have usually decided they need support to move on.

As you will notice people here are never told what to do (apart from no contact), only supported to do what they feel is right for them.

i would like to hear more from you.

Regards
Jan

Hi, i dont know if my ex was just manipulative, extremely selfish, or had more underlying problems. However, all i can describe my relationship with her as... eerie. When i was in the outside world, at work or with friends/family, i felt like that regular guy, normal and happy enough. But when i stayed at her house, i felt like i was a freak, or an infant, or never good enough. Like i was in a fairground hall of mirrors.
Of course, it wasn't like that at the start. It was great at the beginning, seemed to both want the same thing. It moved a bit fast, she introduced me to her 2 boys which i got on well with, and then the rest of her family. Things seemed good for a while, and i was happy. The fact that i had a good relationship with her 2 lads was a treat too.

Slowly things changed, but i didnt want see the red flags. She started to pick up on any small behaviours or words, and make a big thing about them. Then how i should dress or look. She told me that she was selfish, and a cow and a [censored], in a really proud way. Then the push pulling. By that i was hooked, and working double time to try and make it work. Then the put downs started, constant criticism, never good enough, attractive enough, successful enough. I just thought hoped, that she was going through a bad time and things would get better. Which they did... for a bit, until it got worse. I always seemed to have my hands in my pocket, paying this paying that, and paying to be insulted lol. She never seemed to appreciate the help, as if she was entitled to it.

She also seemed to think that she was better than others, especially me, that i was lucky to be with her. She thought she was stunningly beautiful. By that time i was just passive, not wanting an arguement, and i think i became emotionally punch drunk. One time i stayed over, i jumped in the shower, not noticing that 1 of the lads had put the bathroom matt on the side of the bath, and of course it got soaked. It was bloody stupid of me for sure, and she didnt get angry but her coldness was like ice. I felt like i was 5 years old again. She seemed to look at me under a microscope after that.

Aother time i stayed over, changed into night clothes before bed, she said she could smell smoke on my top. She hated smoking. I forgot my smellies, offered to change, then decided to ask the 16 year old lad for a t shirt.His bedroom door was open, i knocked and asked but he declined, thought it was fair enough and went back to hers. She said proudly that she brought him up to be selfish, never to share anything, he takes after her etc, while accusing me of just walking into his room without knocking. I explained that his door was open and that i did knock. She was adamant that the door was closed and i just walked in (she is slightly hard of hearing). I was beginning to doubt myself by then, thinking the door was closed but stupid me thought it open. There were lots of little incidents like that, where i thought i couldnt trust my own judgement anymore.

She asked me to give up my flat, to move in with her. I was hardly ever there anyway, it would free up some cash so i started the wheels in motion. I then got a text saying 'i want control of the finances but u are too immature'. I was going to give her my debit card that evening, to prove to her that i am mature. I went round there, but had a moment of clarity, told her that i was not ready for that yet. I finished with her a few days later. She told me she never fancied, she was too good for me etc
All the little things she did or said about me over that time really affected me. Never good enough, rich enough etc. I thought i was the ugliest bloke in the world even though i know im a normal looking bloke. I am slowly getting better but it will take a bit of time i think.

thanks

My son married a manipulative, abusive female. She was great to him in the beginning. She never really liked his family. She always wanted the best of everything for herself, and he was always second when it came to material things. She always made him feel that she was better than he was. She had a lot of male friends that she confided in and hung out with. He was very happy at work and with friends and family. But when she was around there was always tension.

She made everyone uncomfortable, even the pets. She was very controlling and didn't want him to have much to do with his family or friends. She controlled the finances, cars, and house. As long as he went to work and brought home money, she was happy.

She was never satisfied...always wanting a new car, clothes, furniture, etc. She was physically and emotionally abusive to all of her 3 husbands.

You are not alone when it comes to an abusive woman. They are out there. They want to rule your world.
I hope you can move on and get away from her. She probalby has tried to destroy a part of you intentionally.

You need to know that she is the one with the problem not you. Leave her in your past and move forward with knowledge and self confidence.

Planetchildren

Thank you for your post, your son's experience seems chillingly familiar. My ex actually knew my mum before me, she was an Avon lady and they would chat in the evenings. It was the ex who kept asking my mum if she could meet me. When we got it together, one of the first things she did was give up her evening job. I thought it a bit odd because i thought she liked the job and my mum. But she had nothing to do with my family after that.

Telling your story has helped me a lot because i thought i was alone with this. I hope your son's life is good now. That's where i want to be. At the moment it seems very far away. But i'm starting to have the odd good moment, the odd good day and know that will get better. The bad days are awful. All i was looking for was a little happiness, nice companionship. What i got was grief and anxiety, lost all my money and a feeling of emptiness and worthlessness. The cosmic joke is that i kept my head down for a couple years before meeting her, working so hard to build up, not wanting crazy making women in my life. I got both barrels.

Now like you say its time to move on. Luckily i still have a good job and can build again. And now i can recognise red flags and act on them.
All the best.

Hi Marcos, I am very sorry that you had this happen.

Please know they target the nicest, kindest people in the world so you have that and can never be taken away. She didn't destroy that and in time you will learn to trust but be well prepared for those red flags with any future relationships.

It was very kind of you to tell your story here, it is hard for men to express but many read and will feel comfort that they aren't alone and you are on a path of healing. You have a lot to offer for the right woman.

Di