Since we already know what kind of monster we are dealing with, is there a way to give a Psychopath a dose of his/her own medicine? These people can just scoot off after wrecking havoc in your life and never get punished.

Psychopaths are punishment insensitive so it's pointless and also confirms they have control over our emotions. Sometimes you just have to turn away. All the time you hang on to anger and resentment it eats away at you while the psychopath just casually moves on.

If you do try to punish him you are not allowing yourself to leave the past behind. If he is in your mind he still has control and that's what you are trying to overcome. If you take control then you can say he means nothing to you and you don't even want to think about him. Maybe a little thank you that he has taught you a great lesson so you are now wiser because of him?

Jan

Thanks, I guess i just wonder how can these people wreck people's lives and can just go without getting punished. I always believed that there is a seed of goodness in every human being, even the most evil ones,such naivete, that's why i named me Naive, much better word for ignorance.

Just my 2 cents, I can't understand why the need to get revenge with someone who will never know it was revenge. It could be a dangerous game and put a target right at your own back. If there aren't children involved and you need to collect support, my advise would be RUN RUN RUN and never look back and look at this as a horrible lesson that you will survive, maybe scared for awhile but why drag out the agony?

Di

I think the hardest part in being with a Psychopath is not knowing he's a Psychopath and that is why we are all here, to find answers and validate that such a person exists. Knowing who we are dealing with would enable us to build our defenses. Of course, it's different if your Psychopath is violent, you need to run as soon as you have the opportunity, but what if there are other considerations and running is not an option at the moment, what would you do? If there are no laws can protect us from these Ps, its up to us to protect ourselves. KNOWLEDGE is POWER. I agree with Elizabeth to always think what a psychopath do? maybe in our own little way we can beat them at their own game. Before, we don't know the rules, now we know.

If you say that they don't have a conscience maybe we can condition them like our pets (dogs)to do the right thing. It is a lot easier to walk away from a Psychopath who is not related to us, but what if that is your child or sister or someone you really love and care about? I know it would take a lot from us, especially if we are dealing with our child, we cannot just give up or run away. We cannot always run away from our problems, we need to learn how to deal with it head on!

I am glad for this forum, because not only it educates you, it also have people like you, who can share their experiences or coping mechanisms. Imagine, if we would be able to beat all our Ps in their own game, maybe this will be a much better world.


Elizabeth, I am glad you like my user name, it says a lot about me, but i'm learning!

I believe it is possible under certain circumstances & am in the process of filing a law suit now.

Hi Kiki and welcome to the forum. Your story must be an interesting one if you can take this kind of challenge. If you want to fill us in with more details that would be great.

I am assuming it is a civil lawsuit?

Di

Yes, a civil suit & fraud is one of the counts. I am actually an attorney who was conned out of money by an individual who I thought was a friend. It has been very embarrassing, humiliating, etc., but I will redeem myself. I have read a great deal about psychopaths since this incident (how I discovered this forum) and am starting to feel a lot better about this nightmare. I found that once I quit taking it so much as a personal insult and started looking at it objectively as a problem to be solved that the pain began to diminish. Initially I did have trouble drafting the complaint because I would start to get so upset that I could not concentrate. But I am making better progress now and expect to have it filed for sure the beginning of next week. I am out about $3000.00 and will be seeking $10,000.00 plus interest, court costs, and attorney fees. I will be representing myself in small claims court. The person that I live with is a good witness to most everything that transpired. Note that $10,000.00 is the maximum amount that you can file for in small claims court in Cook County, IL. I sent the psycho a threatening letter demanding immediate payment in January and as I had predicted, he moved to another apartment by February. This is exactly what I had anticipated and it will work to my benefit when I collect on the judgment. Tally-ho! (largely British phrase, used in fox hunting, shouted when a rider sees the fox)! More late next week!

How i gave the psychopath who abused me a dose of just some of his medicine was being verbally abusive back to him. What else i did to him was zip a plastic bag over his head till he fainted. however i only did that for self defense. Same goes for the verbal abuse. i thought he would stop abusing me if i abused him.

Clementine,

I've been in your shoes. It's an awful feeling being verbally and psychically attacked by a psychopath. I've lost my cool before too.

I have found that the more you yell back etc and feed them the worse they act. It's hard to do but ignoring them even if they are on a roll is the best thing to do. Psychopaths want you to react. They want you to act just as bad as they do.

Ignorance Is Bliss Here
Lyzak

PS-If you have to psychically defend your self than you have too. Psychopaths goal is to get up all upset. If you verbally attack them back...psychopath is in control of the situation. You are in control of yourself. Mums the word.

I would not guess it is easy or possible to beat a Psychopath it is possible without a great trauma toward your own spirit. No reason that I can think of to remain as a target, the sooner you get off their radar the better.

I don't know if I posted this but it is one of my philosophys, a Psychopath can keep their balance better than most of us when we scream back, I know that is how it is for me. If I remain cool and calm and don't take the bait I can think more clearly.

Kiki, does he has assets that you can get ahold of when you get the judgement? Looking forward to hearing more of your story.

Di

He makes $42.00 per hour & is in a union of about 700 members. I know a few so they can put the word out & likely figure out where he is working, if need be. Was planning on filing the suit today but am sort of burned out & want to do the finishing touches when I am more on my toes. Sometimes when you look at something awhile it is good to set it aside & have sort of a fresh perspective. Then you read it seriously & are more likely to notice errors or if you left something out. It was difficult to write because I would get so angry. I do hope I get service on him because that's the main hurdle. I believe that I will. So today I hope to go out a bit for St. Patrick's day & have a couple beers. I am sort of struggling with how detailed I need to get relative to justifying $7200.00 in compensatory damages! This has to be the wildest complaint I have ever written in 24 years but it is all true! I truly think this is fascinating reading for a breach of contract & fraud complaint. I have never read anything nailing a psychopath better, if I do say so myself. Although I never did any sort of sample or survey of complaints against psychopaths. In my mind it is a masterpiece of sorts. Perhaps there is something to that saying about revenge is a dish best served cold. I have to admit I just got quite the laugh about what I wrote here & I hope somebody else did too. Likely more tomorrow.

Great Job, Kiki,

I am the same, I put things in my draft box and go over them a few times with a fresh set of mind. Particularly if I am angry;)

I would get very detailed but to the point.

Have a break and take another look, do you know what judge it would go in front of?

Finding info where people are is almost childs play these days. If he finds out he might cut and run. It is great he makes that per hour, gee what a shame when you get an order to garnish his wages.

Di

Well, i have wondered if i was just pleasing the psychopath who has abused me when i speak to him about the bad affects of his behavior. Sometimes, i think the only thing that got him to apologize was him getting tired of me begging him to apoloize.

Clementine-

You made a good point.

Psychopaths never take responsibility for their behavior. If you got yours to listen and not respond with some projection and misplaced blame I commend you.

Psychopaths don't have the ability to feel sorry for anything they do. You were probably barraging him enough where he new if he apologized he would get you to leave him alone/(shut up--which is probably what he wants to say) about it. I have bothered my ex too to the point where he too just said what I needed to hear.

You can get them to verbalize an apology, but an apology from a psychopath means nothing.

Lyzak

Di, Naive, Elizabeth, Kiki, Clementine and Lyzak,

Your post have been so helpful to me. I have been reading all the posts on this forum for around a month and a half. All of you give me so much hope that it is possible to beat a psychopath. You all have given me so much hope.

I've got one heck of a story to tell. I'm so angry I'm not ready to go into full blown detail about it yet. I hope you understand. I will say that I am one of those woman who didn't know she married a lying, cheating psychopath until I was served with divorce papers two months ago. My husband (a high profile attorney) has fathered two children in Vietnam with some woman who is 26 years younger than him. I'm still so angry I can't talk about it. All the signs were there but I was so wrapped up in helping my eldest daughter with her wedding, making my house perfect, teaching the 4th grade, doing charity events, doing everything, playing Ms. My Life is Wonderful. My life isn't so perfect and it hasn't been for the longest time. He meets almost all of Dr. Hares Checklist.

Great Advice. Don't stop telling me how to beat him at his own game. Thankful I found you all.

Roslyn

You're welcome.

Hi Clementine, keep a few things in mind, what will be the outcome for you, it could take years off your life and him in your energy cycle for a long time. As normal people we really can't predict what evill will do to get even.

I would tread lightly and carefully. We just don't think like they do, thank goodness.

Di

I have the worst time finding my way way back to this page when I sign out such that I finally bookmarked the page & just sign back in!

I did complete my complaint & summons but did not get to file it & send it out for service today.

However, Monday it will be done. My birthday is Easter Sunday so I hope he is served by then. It would be a cool birthday present of sorts. I know that seems really speedy but he is working at a huge place that takes up almost 280 acres so I figure that a sheriff goes there almost everyday. What's great about getting them at work, especially at a secure facility such as where he is at is that the sheriff goes to security, finds out exactly where he is working, and goes directly to him in the plant (where they all wear identification cards). None of the not answering the door at their residence baloney.

I plan on garnishing his wages and bank account and taking his vehicle (which I believe I essentially paid for). You have to wait 30 days after a judgment for it to be final. Then you can do a court appearance which is called a citation to discover assets to find out what assets he has. But that gives him time to empty the bank account. I already know where he works & hopefully he will remain there for some time, so I can send the wage garnishment out after the 30 days transpires. I know where he used to bank & believe that he likely still banks there. By moving, the only address I can provide to the sheriff is no good, so he will not receive the notifications from the sheriff as these events get underway. If he had filed a forwarding order with the post office he would, but I am sure that he did not. So he outsmarted himself. I don't really know how taking the vehicle works, but the sheriff has it sold & the proceeds are applied to the judgment. I hope it is worth enough for them to do it. He owns it free & clear. He has another older vehicle (that is supposed to be for his deadbeat son who has never even had a job) so he can drive that. I could take both as they are both in his name, but he does have to get to work so he can have his wages garnished. You get 15% of the gross wages so that's $252.00 per week. After the sheriff deducts all the charges for the sale of the vehicle, not much actual value will remain, but I don't care. I do hope that he truly loves the vehicle & that it runs like a top. Let's see how he likes it when somebody takes from him! I do hope it proves to be most inconvenient for him. I hope that I will be dreaming about his checks bouncing all over town, unbeknownst to him.

I hope I am not boring everyone to death with these legal details, but I want to make this painful for him. I want to see him experience grief & I know that hitting him in the old pocket book is certain to get his goat.

Also, I have to take the car because who knows if he will get laid off & go back on unemployment again?

I made sure that I knew where he worked before I sent the demand letter because I suspected that he might move. I figured that they would never answer the door at the apartment anyway. Even I did not expect that he would move in just a week.

This psychopath is certainly predictable.

I am still having nightmares, anxiety, and early morning wake up, but hope it goes away soon.

More next week, but I may pop in to see what's up over the weekend.

And I think I know which Judge I will get. I had a bad experience with him in the past, but he probably won't remember me. I did nothing wrong, but I was aggravated that he dismissed that case. I am a part time practitioner & don't go to court very often. Most of the time when I am there, I am at the law library. Actually, most attorneys never go to court.

Rosyln & Others:

I am glad that you have found some serenity in these posts. I tend to pop in when I find myself getting aggravated about the psychopath. The more I read the more I realize that he is a textbook psychopath. I don't know that this psychopath can ever be beat per se, because the damage done in my life can never fully be reversed. However, I do intend on giving him a run for his money that will even be hard for a psychopath to forget. I even put in the court complaint that I pray that this not happen to anybody else. Further, I intend to stay with this forum for a very long time in the hope that I can help others.

Hi Kiki, you are one good fighter)

If I am not asking too much, how did you meet this guy and the front end of your relationship for it to get this point?

Di

Hello, all. All this talk about "beating the Psychopath at his own game reminds me of yet another saying,"When you wrestle with a pig, you're gonna get dirty"!!

I know everybody's circumstances are different, and I know had a lotta luck on my side when I packed up and moved out without warning a year ago. But from my experience, I just can't understand why y'all would want to "beat him at his own game." I still think the best advice is (1) TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF, (2) RUN, and (3) DON'T LOOK BACK!

Here's the update on the Psychopath's activities. In the past year, I understand from various sources (this is a small community, remember) that he has "dated" at least six women - and currently is high and dry, without a woman on his arm. He looks awful - even Ps lose their good looks when they drink too much and take up chain-smoking. I, on the other hand, have been pumping iron, jogging, swimming, dropping weight, and sleeping soundly - and folks tell me I'm looking great (now that's a sweet form of revenge!). Also, he has been attending the Catholic Church (after having burned his way through the Presbyterians and the Methodists). Recently he told a group of the Catholic women that the Episcopalians (my church, where we attended when we were married) "held a meeting" and "voted him out of the church"!!! He's even losing his "silver tongue" - his lies are getting more outlandish and unbelievable.

Anyway, that's my idea: "Living well is the best revenge."

He worked with another friend of mine on & off for 20 years in the union. So he gained confidence by virtue of my other friend. My other friend is my main witness as to what transpired. And I did finally get the complaint filed today & to the sheriff for service. Court date is almost two months away but getting him served is the main objective. So I am pleased but really emotionally exhausted. I don't expect that he would be served by my birthday which is Easter, but then again, as I previously mentioned, that company is huge so they may go there almost everyday.

Hi Kiki, thanks for your reply, just out of curiosity and you certainly don't have to anwswer, how did he get you to "loan" him any $. I am always looking for ways that Psychopath's dupe victims. How long did you date? I presume you dated or am curious his method of getting $ from you. Like others you are a very intelligent person so this topic of how they worm their way in is of interest to me.

Di

I did not date him but was fond of him. He would stop by our home a couple of times a week. Later, he was on the verge of eviction & actually was crying that his son who was in special ed & already a year behind would have to change schools, etc. Later found out that it was for conduct disorder which you would know is a prerequisite to an adult antisocial personality disorder diagnosis. Later than that discovered that defendant psychopath went to the same school for conduct disorder! Also had discovered that defendant psychopath was functionally illiterate, which commonly goes along with said diagnosis. I did actually put in the complaint an allegation essentially that I discovered that his high school education was at a special education facility that he attended because of conduct disorder which is considered the childhood equivalent of antisocial personality disorder & is a prerequisite to an antisocial personality disorder diagnosis. Nothing about the kid of course, but how I finally found out was when he was talking about his kid and commented how he had went there for the same thing & he had showed me the kid's records at some point previously. He had previously claimed to have attended & completed high school at the school where the special ed kids would otherwise be attending. I guess their diplomas give the name of that high school. (If that is so, I don't think it's right or fair that a functionally illiterate individual obtains the same diploma that everybody else does). And, as you know, antisocial personality disorder runs in families. I personally believe that it is primarily if not always genetic, especially after this fiasco. Also, his kid is a son & it is more common in males than females, as are other types of retardation.

Well, hopefully I do not cause him to keep abusing me. I do know though that at least partially of what you said may be correct. Sometimes, I think that his girlfriend may have been one of the factors to his abusive behavior, she would give him crack, and make attempts to get him addicted to meth. She had reasons for wanting to do such wrong things to him though. I remember those times where he raped her, and attempted to rape her. There was a time where she almost killed him with poison because he abused her and me; the place he stayed at though for the poison help made his living to continue. Some of the things i did to him though I think would help prevent his abusive behavior like that time where when he was attempting to rape someone, I tried pushing him in the fire that was still burning, even when the wicca ceremony has been ceased. If I never pushed him away he may have actually raped her that time. And, sure he didn't fall in the fire very unfortunately. If he fell in the fire maybe he would be dead.

In some cases though running does not always work. I could of tried running whilst feeling unconscious due to lack of oxygen while in the lab room. I think zipping a plastic bag over his head till he's passed out works a whole better. That's just how I work though. Some people may be better off running from him, or using other techniques to escape from him.

THE BEST WAY TO BEAT A PSYCHOPATH AT THEIR WON GAME IS TO BE HAPPY. MINE LIKED TO DRIVE ME CRAZY. I USED TI TRY TO TALK THINGS THROUGH WITH HIM OR GET HIM TO BE HONEST. LATELY I CALL HIM ON HIS CRAP HE'S DOING, AND DON'T LET IT BOTHER ME AT ALL. HE'S A PATHOLOGICAL LIAR. FINALLY I JUST REMIND HIM EVERY SO OFTEN THAT I CAN'T BELIEVE A WORD HE SAYS. AND SO I CAN'T PAY TO MUCH ATTENTION OR GIVE HIM MUCH FEED BACK. BUT I'M REALLY SWEET ABOUT IT. i SAY LYING IS HIS PERSONAL PROBLEM AND IF FEELS THE NEED TO DO IT. I JUST WON'T LET IT BOTHER ME. THIS DROVE HIM CRAZY. ANY WAY I COULD CATCH ON TO HIM TRYING TO MANIPULATE ME, I'D JUST GIVE HIM THE OPPOSITE REACTION HE WAS GOING FOR. YOU CAN'T DO THIS LONG TERM HOWEVER. AND I DON'T HAVE TO LIVE WITH HIM SO IT MAKES IT ALOT EASIER. TODAY IS DAY TWO OF MY NO CONTACT. THE LAST THING HE DID TO ME HAD ME DEAD BUT BREATHING. IT WAS PURE SADISM. HE'D BEEN RELISHING IN THE FACT OF HOW MUCH HE HAD AFFECTED ME. TO DAMAGE ME FOR LIFE I'M SURE WAS HIS GOAL. I WROTE HIM A GOODBYE LETTER AND INSTEAD OF TELLING HIM HOW HURT I WAS OR WHAT AN A.. HOLE HE IS. I TOLD HIM EVERYTHING THAT I HAD REALIZED HE HAD PLOTTED OUT AND DONE. HE HAD NO MASK IN THAT LETTER. AND THEN I SAY SOMETHING I'VE ALWAYS BELIEVED. EVIL HAS NO POWER ONLY THE POWER WE ALLOW IT TO HAVE. SAID GOODBYE, AND TOLD HIM I HAD THE BEST DAY AND THAT I HADN'T BEEN HAPPIER SINCE THE DAY HE WALKED INTO MY LIFE. I REALIZED I WAS WISER AND STRONGER THAN I'D EVER BEEN BEFORE.AND MORE SELF CONFIDENT. SO I WAS GRATEFUL FOR WHAT I'D LEARNED WITHOUT HAVING TO GIVE UP MORE THAN AN ILLUSION IN MY MIND. CAN'T HAVE A BROKEN HEART OVER SOMETHING THAT NEVER WAS. ...I WAS LYING OF COARSE I'D NEVER BEEN MORE SHATTERED IN MY LIFE. BUT I REALLY DID THINK AND FEEL THESE THINGS TODAY AND I'VE REALLY BEEN HAPPY FOR THE FIRST TIME IN A LONG TIME. I'M SO GRATEFUL I FOUND THIS PLACE. I HAD BEEN READY TO LEAVE HIM FOR A LONG TIME. I JUST COULDN'T SEEM TO DO IT WITHOUT HAVING ANYONE TO TALK TO. SO THANK YOU EVERY ONE! !

hi stephanie how are u nice to meet u.i have a expsychopath in my life and he do the same as to lie all the time and i know it when he gets me made i start to yell at him but asu said the best thing to do is to be happy i will try that as well he just gets under my skin and it makes me sick i would like to her from u soon thaks

Ya I get o positive streak like that sometimes. But the truth is, I can barely function. His lies have blown my mind. They have obsesses my mind for so long. I only realized how much it bothered him after I said that and he got really uncomfortable. I feel like I am in a daze all the time. I don't know If I can tell the what my own reality is any more. He seemed to control me even more than before when I told him I wanted no contact. I gave in. I could feel him around me all the time. He peaks in my windows. The world around me starts to fall apart and I have no control. I don't know what he's saying to people but I can tell Everyone is questioning me. But no one will say anything to me about it. When I try to talk about it their response sounds like they knew what I was going to say before I brought it up. And act like I may be the one who is delusional. I feel like to keep him thinking there is a possibility with us is the only way to protect myself from loosing the last of what I have left. I can barely function properly though. Because his lies I cannot comprehend. How someone can lie to my face like that for long periods of time about things that would hurt me very much. It's made me doubt my worth as a human being. I feel like I can't pull out of it. I'm to afraid to try to meet new people to break out of this isolation. But no one can understand what I'm going through. There is no way I can explain what he's done to me. They will just make some excuse for it to be able to understand it themselves. I feel so stuck right now. I get the worst fear when I go to make no contact. I can feel the negative energy start to swallow me up. I don't know how to break free of this.

Hi Stephanie,

What you are experiencing is VERY normal after being in contact with a psychopath~ the dazed feeling, the unreal sense of reality, the intense negative feelings. Life feels almost surreal. All normal. If all is going well, you will probably be unable to function at all on many levels. Yes, you read that correctly. IF ALL IS GOING WELL, this is how you will feel. Being in a relationship with a psychopath fills us with emotional and mental toxins. You are experiencing this now because you are just beginning to de-tox.

You are starting to break a negative cycle, and all this is a result of that. You are working on NO CONTACT and feeling the after-effects of breaking a cycle of abuse. I was there. I know how it feels to be in a place where you can't even count on your own brain to help you out because of the mental fog you are in. There were days when I couldn't have even told someone what 2+2 added up to~my brain fog was that bad at times. And the sense of isolation is so intense you are pretty sure you are going to go insane. ALL GOOD!!

It is part of the process, Stephanie. Don't become disheartened~stay the course and it WILL get better. I promise. Keep working on distancing yourself from this person. NO CONTACT. If you slip up and associate with him, don't beat up on yourself~ just try to get back to no contact as soon as you can.

Remember he is toxic for you. No matter what he looks like at times, he has poisoned your system (how you are feeling now PROVES that) and every moment you spend with him is just exposing yourself to more of that same poison. Contact with him will only lengthen your de-tox time. And he knows that once you have those emotional poisons out of your system that you will never be interested to have him anywhere near your life again. That is why they go into overdrive to pull you back in when you start to walk away. Peeking in your windows and isolating you from friends, for example ~ all just ploys to keep himself important in your life.

Ending a relationship with a psychopath is like quitting a seriously addictive drug cold turkey. There will be withdrawal symptoms as with any other toxin. It is simply a part of the process and everyone goes through it in their own way. But it is SO worth going through! Please don't give up, hon!

I know about the feelings of isolation. That will pass in time, but in the meanwhile find things that bring you joy as much as you can. You have to be very responsible to make yourself happy in every way possible. I learned a great deal about myself in the isolated phase of recovery. For the first time in my life, I began to really look around and see what interested ME. What did I like? What made ME happy? We are each responsible for own happiness, and this is the golden opportunity to learn about what makes you smile. Turn the "isolated time" into "learning about you time".

You can break free by making EVERY effort to do as many positive things for yourself as you can. Those positives will help undo the negative wave you are working thru as you de-tox. Positive undoes negative. It is imperative that you do positive things for you ~ I cannot stress that enough.

All is well. While this is a very difficult part of the process, you just have to get thru it and on the other side. Don't give up. Joyous health is waiting for you down the road~just keep going!

Best regards,
Deb

Thank you so much for this. I broke down on the no contact because well because I'm stupid really. He has alot of control of the people around my life. I just had my daughter taken away on sunday. Everyone knows something is really wrong with me. But no one will listen. I just need to get away from him I guess to prove I'm serious. Things Get really bad when I do though and I just can't tell what way to go>

Hi Stephanie, my heart goes out to you. Please don't call yourself stupid, you are up against a slick, lying evil person. Good and kind people lack the ability to behave or know what they are up to next.

It is VERY often that people think there is something wrong with the victim, you have emotions and he can appear as cool as a cucumber further establishing himself as the hero.

I don't want to did up old wounds but it would help others, how did he get custody of your daughter?

There wouldn't be a forum here if the victims could be heard and understood. The sad reality is that people would rather accept the lie than to question things. Then when you add PTSD to the mix it is easy for a typical normal person like yourself to play into their game and "look" like you are the crazy one.

All I can suggest is to post here where we will do our best to understand you and validate your experience. Those who are your real friends may return someday, maybe never which speaks to their friendship.

You are by no means stupid, smart people reach out for help and recognize something is wrong. From my many years of observations, victims are indeed, kind, caring and loving people who see the best in others, unfortunately the world doesn't operate that way. Victims don't see or understand evil and have a hard time anticipating what an evil person would do. Always hoping for the best when there is no best if a person is lacking a conscience.

What can we do to help and support you in any way possible? We may not be "visible" friends, but true friends and would be honored to validate and help understand in any way possible. Just knowing someone is here to listen to your situation can make you feel less alone.

Di

He didn't get custody of my daughter. She lives with her dad now because He is remarried and she has lots of sisters now. He just told me he thoght we should take a little break in seeing her until I get my life figured out. Says I look like shit and he thinks I'm on drugs or something. And due to the fact that i lost my job and my mind pretty much, , no one really knows whats going on.

Whenever I try to talk to anyone they just say I can't blame anyone but myself for whats going on in my life and stat to point out How the Psychopath must feel. I know he's talked to them. I was sexually abused when I was little and he is using that to make it look like I'm the crazy paraniod one. So He doesn't have to look bad for being a sex addict or a cheater. He more just makes sure to save his image and I feel almost safer if I keep him somewhat close to where he won't be able to fully destroy me if people think we still associate. He's watching me very close to see that I don't say anything to anyone. He is in a bad place right now. His work rely's completely on his reputation. He has screwed alot of people over and is needing to rebuild trust.

He cheated on his wife of fifteen years and really rocked the community. He can claim mid life crisis but people are catching on or fed up with him at this point. The last year He was "Trying to prove he could be faithful to me" after he had cheated on me with his ex wife at the first of our relationship. Needless to say he could not prove that. He proved he had a severe habit of cheating he picked up during his fifteen year marriage. His ex is out to get him back and doing a pretty good job at it.

He knows I hold the key to his future. I have told him I will slaughter him and let everyone know He couldn't stop cheating. The whole reason he keeps me around I think is for his image that he can make a relationship work. He left his wife for me in the first place. It was non sexual until He did of coarse. But still It's the biggest mistake I've ever made.

Now I think his wife will probably thank me some day. She is coming out of her fog and she hates him. This is where I sit. Between his public image as the ok guy so he can work and me getting away from him and him needing to destroy me so I no one will believe whatever I say. I know I just need to go now or It is only going to get worse. At least he does not live with me. I'm slowly getting over that last rein of terror from him.

He is on his best behavior right now but i'm not buying it. I'm just trying to figure out the safest best way to do this as I get some sort of closure at the same time. I got a job interview tomarrow and I hope that goes well. I need to work through this a little bit so I can see my daughter again. I don't like her to see me like this. She is safe and in a good place. I'm sure I will get her back in a couple of weeks. This is helping so much to have your help and support. I have to come back here to remember how he really is sometimes. I've been coming to this site for a few months. Then I seem to slip back into denial. I haven't done that since I spoke out.

Thank you so much for your kindness and encouragement. It helps so much to know someone can relate.

Hi there, yes it must be very difficult when the pressure builds and you start to look like the crazy one.

I am trying to follow along, how many and for how many wives has he had and whose children are his or his wives? It sounds like the one is out for blood, move with caution, if it doesn't directly involve you, i.e. your daughter you may want to think about your daughter first, sadly to say this may be a battle you can't help her with. You and your daughter should come first and leave the revenge to her if she is stong enough to handle it.

Do you have any access to medical care?

Trend with caution we are here for you. How did the job interview go? Is he provinding any form of assisance so you can have a place to live?

Sadly find the closure for yourself and your daughter, he is like a walking empty shell who will never admit to anything but how wrong others were. Do you live in a smaller town where most people know each other?
Di

He just has one ex wife. He was married for fifteen years. He has two daughters with her. He is a pretty good Dad all things considered. He left his wife two years ago to be with me. He was also my high school sweetheart. We do live in a pretty small town. I figured out he was a psychopath after the first year. He was cheating with his ex wife and lying to both of our faces about it.

I knew there was something seriously wrong with him then. He Claimed he didn't know He was one but he knew he was different. His brother had recently been diagnosed as one also. He comes from a really nice family but they do have a history of psychopaths. After I found out about him cheating I told him we could still be friends but That I needed to trust him before I was anything more. I really had no idea what a psycho was and sick as it may sound I was a little curious. He has told me alot of things about himself. More than anyone else I'm sure.

It is a very relgious community. I do know that He has tried very hard to fit in. I used to could not understand why He would say he was angry at god. I do now. I don't know why god made people like this. He does not seem to have that direct connection with god. Satin on the other hand haunts him in his sleep and I think is his constant companion in the daytime. Just being out of rehab He is acting different than I have ever seen him before. He is trying very hard to be "normal" I don't know how much is a mask and how much is sincere him trying to make a mends so he can get what he wants in his life. He does apologize. Usually it's been if he yells or says really mean things. I know this is a rule he set for himself not to do. As for the little hidden insults and the covert acts of aggression. The plots to twist/manipulate people into what he wants he is a master. I don't know if he fully comprehends the pain that he causes when he uses their emotions to do this.

his image or benefit somehow. Right now he is in a very bad spot. He is a commercial real estate agent/broker. He recently got fired from the company he was with and then got rehired back onto one of the companies he used to work for. Where he was fired a week later because some of the other parters in the firm were threatening to quit if he came back on. No one trusts him. They say if a man will cheat his wife you know he'll cheat you too. Alot of people think he just had a mid life crisis. I know about his habit of cheating and that he is a sex addict. I don't want to seek revenge.

I's just the only card I have. So I've told him he better think twice before tearing me down to make himself look better. Me being the one he left his wife for I think is his main motivation for wanting to get me to be with him. The image thing. He doesn't like to take no for an answer. He has been obsesses with me since high school anyways. It took me a while to figure out it was not love. He just doesn't care. More like he's not capable of caring. I try to get away after i realize he has been messing with me and my emotions to the point I get almost dependent on him. He's got everyone else fooled that he is just so in love with me and I can't get over him cheating on me a year ago. With everyone and their preaching forgiveness I end up looking like the bad guy.

none can understand why I'm acting the way I am. Including myself. Or why I can't just get away from him. My life gets so much worse when I try. But it will not get any better until I do. I'm just trying to figure out what I'm doing and how to get away with the least damage done. Part of me feels responsible to him. and then part of me is dependent on him now that I've lost my job. They postponed my job interview until Wednesday. So that will make a huge difference if I get the job. I do live in my own home. My grandparents own it and I go help them once or twice a week so at least I'm safe there. I don't know why it is so hard to get away from him. Or why I even love him. When half the time i hate him.

He also has tried many things to get help. Or maybe he does that for his family. But he went to a life coach. This guy was also a shaman healer. He really liked him. But the guy said that my Psychopath had a very string spirit but that he did not have a soal. I just don't understand where the come from?

Hi, I am trying my best to follow things, this x wife of 15 years is she still in the picture and is he living with her? Do you have visitation whenever you want and does he comply?

Getting away from a Psychopath without any support is just like trying to stop heroin today, you know it isn't going to happen but a part of us keepins thinking it might work.

I am confused over the sisters, I apologize if I have missed something. Is he back home living with the x? I am not so sure I am into all this forgivness business, I do think we can forgive ourselves but people tend to use it as some kind of want to wave over someone and things will be better.

I would guess these back and forth feelings would come because he is putting his best foot forward, probably in some passive agressive way but all for show.

Out of curiousity, what made you start to wonder and explore if he was a Psychopath? There does for sure seem to be a gene issue.

Do you think he keeps your daughter to keep looking good or to also avoid paying any child support.

His co workers kind of say it all. They put their work careers on the line to resist working with ever again. Small towns can be good and bad, news travels fast, not always correct so it could be pretty easy to go around spreaing lies since the lies will then take a life of it's own.

I am certainly not a lawyer but is there anyway your grandparents could put your arrangement/s in writing? It happened for a relative of mine and kept the greedy relatives from tossing her out the first chance they got. Even if your grandparents don't necessarily want you to have the house and the income, they could get in writing via legal help that you would have lifetime living rights so no one could do anything to toss you out into the streets and possibly back into the arms of this wolf. Then it is up to their will who gets the funds from the home. I would be more cncerned about getting the life time living rights, that would make me sleep better knowing I could never get kicked out and bring on more chaos. I am sure they want to protect you but only legal paperwork giving you life time living rights would be such a relief. That way when you start work again, you and your daughter would at least have the ground under you safe. I would also see if they would consider including taxes to be taken out of any future will? I know that sounds like a lot but at least you would know the choice would be yours where you live and for how long.

I used to be involved in interviews years ago. Most people doing the interview spend most of the time telling you and selling you about what a great company they have. If you listen carefully you can parrot back the points they are bringing up. I have heard that most people who consider another person a great person is one who listens while they blab along.

Any sort of counseling will only make him more clever. I am curious what his response was from this shaman saying he had no soul? He certainly figured him out because we need a soul to not be a Psychopath.

Maybe practicing loving yourself would be a better place to put your energy. He knows what buttons to push to get to you and back in his good graces.

Deb has made some excellent points to you, she really nows how to communicate and has the most experience of most in looking at things clearly.

When he left his first wife for you I would guess he said it was because you were special and understood her better than the first wife. Any idea how he is juggling his finances to keep wife #1 and not having a job going? This is only a matter of curiosity my part the person that needs protection.

When you have thoughts of still loving him etc., let the moment pass. Hating him for having these feelings will bring more hate into your life. Nothing is going to kill you because you had some human emotions. Like a teacher said years ago when we beat ourselves up it is only a matter of what size stick we pick up.

I have a strong feeling that since you are here processing what is going on you will be just fine in the end. Being in a small town when someone tries to fish out gossip or relay some, just say, "oh that is interesting", period end of conversation with a smile. What you don't know won't hurt you and thinking people know more than what they probably do keeps the circle going. We only have our own minds to know about. A sideway or weird look doesn't mean they are thinking something negative about you, for all you know they just found out about a tragedy, not that they are thinking negative things about you.

I suggest reading what Deb says over and over.

Don't be shy about asking your grandparents for the help you need for future security, we don't really ever know about the future, only the present.

Regarding rehab, you can paint stripes on a pig but when the rain comes they will wash away.

Di

Ok sorry about the confusion. My daughter is with her dad and her new sisters right now. He is not a psychopath. She is In a good place and is safe. He said he wanted a break in me seeing her because he doesn't know whats going on with me. It looks like I'm just not caring or functioning. Like I'm lazy or something. No one realizes the energy it takes to just get through a day. The more I try to get away from the Psychopath. The worse the pressure gets. Don't ask me how but it is. Crazy stalker. Thanks for the advice on where I live. Either one of my grandparents could die any day. They are both 90. I'm so lucky to have my home. The doors are all kick proof and I cut boards to put in all the windows. Noone could get in without making alot of noise. It feels so safe in here. I need to get out of here more though. I need to set some goals to accomplish each day. I need to get back to myself.

That thought stopping has not been something I have become able to do just yet. It's the worst thing ever to find out everything you had invested all of your time and energy thought and feelings into was total bull s..?. My mind is so blown by the Psychopath's lies I don't think I'll ever be the same. He plays stupid as he acts like we should just be getting along great. I tell him this is what no trust does. It's hell I don't like it. He got upset today and said he was gonna walk away and not come back. I told he please go. The only reason I was even talking to him is because he begged me to let him prove he could be a friend and needed to help me after what he'd done to me.

When I told him i wanted No contact. I went two days then I broke but i like the advice on how to beat a psychopath at their own game> If I play along and keep this confusion and sadness up he will go away I hope on his own. He needs energy to feed of. I refuse to believe a word he says. and that's the other way he gets his energy is by lying to me. If he does not go away soon I'm just gathering up my energy and getting some closure to really do the no contact thing this time. I do know it is the only way. I just need to get past those first few weeks. I don't think I could fall for his crap again if I tried. But then again how many times have I said that. He is on his best behavior. I've never seen a psychopath give so many "sincere" apology's before.

Oh the way I figured out he was a psychopath was I was just going insane trying to figure out his behavior I was so heart broken and needed to rationalize it some how. So I was just praying to god for answers and I had a very clear revelation. it was kind of instantly imprinted on my mind. I heard he uses sex and manipulation to control women and he was not stupid He was very smart. Criminal. He was playing very stupid at the time. But the thought I knew did not come from my own head. I didn't even know what manipulation really meant at the time. So I googled it. And mental disorders and every where I turned it seemed I kept running across psychopath. Or anti social personality disorder. I even had a book on it just kind of fall into my lap. It matched my revelation and so many other things about him. And that's how I figured it out. The fact that he could lie to my face like that was proof he had no conscience.

What is it about getting away from them is like quitting heroin. It took me the longest time to accept the fact that he could not love me. He was my first love twenty years ago. I had believed for twenty years he was the only man who ever truly loved me. It was hard to let that go. He may love is some sick selfish way but he surely does not care about me.

Oh and the story with his ex wife. He told me they were only staying together for the kids and were planning to get a divorce as soon as they went away to school anyways. He made her out to look crazy and mean. He said she made him stay in seprate ends of the house for long periods of time. I believe that is true now and I can not blame her. I had always regretted breaking up with him back then and he said he had loved me for twenty years and felt that was the cause of the problems in his marriage/life yada yada. He just has some strange obsession with me. I can't figure that part out. If they really have no bond to people. He has always kept tabs on me in some way. I still don't understand if they come from hell or what? The shaman explained it to him like he was just on drugs I think. He won't say much about it. He was excommunicated from the church we belong to for having the affair. He thought he needed to be re baptized to get his soal back. He has prayed to satin before in his life. He does try to stay away from that as much as possible now. After realizing satin would turn his back on him too. What a retard for not knowing that. He's a liar hello! Oh and about his ex and supporting her. His parents are doing that for him. It Is just sick how they cover up all his issues and enable him so bad. His mother thinks he can do no wrong. But she must know is is a Psychopath. She took him to alot of doctors when he was young because of his behavior problems. I'm not sure what ever came out of that. She must be in major denial.

I hope I was able to straighten out any questions I'd left unanswered. I know I will be fine. This is helping so much. I'm really afraid to meet more Psychopath's in the future. I realized that the last two guys That pursued me were possibly Psychopath's. I also realized my step father was a Psychopath and a sex addict going through this process with with my Psychopath boyfriend. I do believe everything happens for a reason and I was able to put alot of questions about my childhood to rest going through this. I just hoe I learned enough to not draw any more of them into my future.
thanks again!

Dianne! LOL at the pig with his stripes washing away in the first rain! That is a great image!

Stephanie: Hang in there, girl. Dianne and Deb are very wise women, experienced in dealing with these pigs. They are correct when they tell you to keep your eye on the long-term goal. Don't let these temporary setbacks turn you away from your goal of (1) no contact, and (2) a happier, healthier life for yourself. It does take time to "de-tox" from his poisons (another good image), and ... it WILL HAPPEN. Trust yourself. You can do this.

hugs
Melissa

Hi Stephanie, please make your legal issues with your grandparents a TOP priority. I know a lot about depression myself and one day can blend into the next and on and on. You need that security knowing you will always have a place to live. Not trying to get pushy but please don't put it off. Talk to your grandparents and see how soon you can get all this done. Also if the house isn't in a trust in your name alone or a quick deed to you, I am not sure about all the legal issues, but lets say your grandparents would get ill, the State will take every dime including the house if it is in their name. These are all questions an attorney would need to answer. I would suggest speaking with them, then making a list and go to the attorney and get the answers and talk about the the options with your grandparents and move quickly whatever the decision is. This isn't about being greedy but keeping your feet on the ground so you won't be relying on the Psychopath in any way, I would guess he would love knowing you didn't have a roof over your head so he could be more in control.

Di

Find an attorney, get references and one who specializes in estates and let them know of the urgency, sometimes well, lots of times people can drag their feet and in the end you are the one who suffers. You will have to manage the attorney like a hawk to get this worked out very quickly.

I am watching my mother and her husband go through this now, I am guessing in the end the State will own their property and they will be left without any assets. My mothers husband is too paranoid and many things could have happened to protect their property but he left it exposed to the system.

If you are getting any assistance there is a way for the house to go into a trust, I am foggy on the details but heard it on a Suze Orman show that it can protect your benefits and also keep the house. If not and your grandparents could do a quick deed to get the property into your name as soon as possible would be the best way. Keep in mind I am not an attorney just a sponge for information;) It would be great if they could set aside what the taxes will be for the first couple of years to get your feet on the ground.

I am sure your grandparents love you very much and want you safe and secure. I know we care about you so I sure bet your grandparents do too;)

Di

Like Melissa said you can do this. Please take care of your own place to have to live in.

Recall that psychopaths will vilify you when they are done with you. Now the psychopath admits to others that he is hiding and will not pay but has invented a story about something that I allegedly tried to do to him unsuccessfully such that in his distorted reality he is justified in nonpayment. Fortunately, I have an excellent reputation and nobody believes it nor does it make any logical sense anyway. Sadly, no service obtained but hope springs eternal and I have other ideas of how to obtain it. So I trudge onward.

Hi Kiki,

Not being a lawyer myself when you serve a person do you just have to get them to put a finger on it.

If he is a bar type of guy, maybe some hot babe could trick him;)

Di

You sound very determined I am glad you aren't after me, lol.

That is the irony of Psychopaths, no better victim than themselves while all the time they are creating victims themselves. I guess that is where the word projection came from;)

Hi Stephanie, it was late last night when I was writing my reply to you. I do have a reason for the need to get that house in your name or locked up in a trust, maybe Kiki can describe the difference.

It happened to a friend of mine, when the grandparents got ill and had to go into nursing care the vultures came out in full force. The legal wrangling was hard to grasp, they tried to prove the grandparents weren't in their right minds when signing the paperwork, the list goes on and I am sure you get where I am going. When we pass if we don't have all of our legal work in order it can become a huge curve ball. In the end my friend basically lost because she couldn't fight the legal bills and the state.

I am certainly not trying to be a morbid person but one day something can happen to all of us, I never expected my mom would have a stroke and leave her affairs in horrible shape. My mom made a tactical mistake in her will besides the property, she listed to not be resucitated, she didn't include being put on feeding tubes. The law is the law we just need to be prepared and ready by having things in legal order.

I hope I haven't been too forceful on the issue but this is about you and your daughters future.

Di

How did the job interview go?

You don't need to convince others that he is the supreme rat in this deal, you will lose friends, that is the reality (but ask yourself were they really friends or just acquaintances, a true friend throws out a life line when you are drowning, others just walk on by. In the end you will be living in the truth. Please don't try to explain yourself to these people, just keep a short answer in mind and not spend the energy you so desperately need by not trying to convince people that he is the problem. Every time we bring ourselves back through the trash we feel worse about ourselves and you are not a bad person but an excellent and kind person trying to work through a horrible nightmare. One foot in front of the other.

I started the no contact again today. I'm sticking to it this time. I told my grandma about trying to get away from him. She is a fiesty lady. She asked me what was the matter. She said I was not me any more. I told her it was him. She went and talked to my mother and her husband. They kind of seemed upset with me. Maybe because my grandma can be a little mean. I told her my concern about him talking to my family. My mom's husband seemed upset and said he they have not talked to him. They did in the past when I tried to get away from him and he turned everything around on me. I just told him not to have any contact with him if he calls. I swear it all just makes me seem crazy.

The Psychopath talks so rational. I'm very quiet. and reserved and have never been very close to my family. So they always liked his so concerned act. I'm going to start to do things to help my mom more and try to be more sociable with them so he can't slaughter me as bad. I got a tarot reading done and it said he was going to throw me to the wolves pretty muck. I don't know how he plans on making me pay this time. But I'll deal with it nothing can be worse than going through the destruction phase again. He has been full bore in the beauty phase for two months. But I could not even fall into it after what he did to me last time. He is pure evil. I need to stay strong and remember the mantra "detachment, aloofness, dignity, no contact, no engagement, no response. I'm just going to try to be very careful and aware. I don't know how to protect myself from his slander. He's such a convincing liar. The further I get away from him, the more normal I will start to become again. I hope

Hi Stephanie, I am so sorry for all of this. Do you think in your heart of hearts being closer to your mother and step dad will help the destruction the Psychopath does? I am not certainly telling you what to do but there is always your mother's husband as part of the issue.

You my friend are not the crazy one. I am thinking about some solutions and maybe if you can't get the support from both of your family members and the Psycho keeps conning them, will being more social with them help or will it get brushed under the carpet that you were just having one of those "spells"?

You are trying to reach out and are finding the strength to remain in no contact, does that mean you should just go about your merry way for awhile from all of them? Naturally being cordial if they call but not throw out any information that could get back to him and misunderstood by your family? I had to do that for many years for different reasons when I hit that brick wall of not being understood and I know from first hand experience it is a tough one. Like my best friend just told me when my mom had a major stroke and is unlikely to survive, I was a wreck on my birthday without her and he said the best thing anyone could have said, he said, the first is always the worst.

I am sure you can act, when there is a family event, show up, avoid any deep conversation and have plans to make sure you have a exit plan to not linger on for too long.

A therapist told me years ago that if people had good support systems there would be no reason for therapists to exist.

How about let us be your sounding board and not rely on information from family etc. which will only make you feel like the crazy one? It would appear the Psychopath in your life is doing a darn good job of that. You are not the crazy one but sound like the most sane one in the group.

If you have never been that close to your family there are probably some very solid reasons for feeling that way. This is only my question and opinion do you think your parents will snap out of it and try to be close to you when they were unable to in the past? Most of us have parents raised many, many years ago before real expressions could or would be expressed, maybe they fall into that category. Unless you think you can change things on how they were raised and behaved do what is in your own heart and congratulations on no contact. I have a few expressions I learned during those years to avoid conflict and more pain if you are interested, they involve not passing back harm and keeping yourself from harmful negative suggestions about how to run you life. I tried isolating myself from events and that made things worse so I figured out how to show up, not divulge any human emotions, appear pleasant and a solid exit plan to leave. If I appeared like everything was okay, that was what they wanted to believe so I let them believe that, the constact conflict was indeed driving me insane. We are the Captains of our own ships, now how to navigate the waters?

Di

Hi Di,

The defendant can be served anywhere they can be found in person. They can be served in person at their residence or anybody who lives there who is at least 13 years old can be served for them. The plaintiff cannot do the serving.

I did not realize that these posts could be pulled up when surfing the web. I had thought that you had to access the Aftermath site before you could read these posts. Is this correct? My concern is that these posts are less confidential than I had thought. In other words, I thought my musings were to those who had actually accessed the site. Please clarify.

Hi Stephanie, I was thinking about your situation and naturally as an attorney, doesn't someone have to prove slander like he is doing toward you?

Di

iWOULD LIKE TO REPLY TO YOUR POST.i have been with my husband for 21 yrs. an at no time have Ibeen able to count him as my friend but just knowing why he treats me the way he does has took a load off of my heart.I am hoping I can stay ahead of him an get on with the rest of my life.You have to let it go if you can or you will get ill an it does no good .Iam now 61 an was at one time pretty an an energetic .I worked an was raising 3 children on my own.I could not bear how he treated me an Iknew something was wrong .HE CHANGED ALL THAT .i could see how well he was liked an he seemed to say the right things at first but he has a dark side if you cross him .I have few friends an he has made everyone thinks I am just crazy .I could see him doing it ./I CALLED HIM ON IT AN FOUGHT HIM FOR MY RIGHT TO BE BE UNDERSTOOD AN LOVED .your wasting your time if you think you can win .I just found out some of the things I need to know to protect myself an stop playing into his hands.I do not hate him he does not know that he has no empathy or the rest of it etc.He is not a happy man .BUT I AM NOT TO BLAME AN I HAVE TO PULL IT TOGETHER SO THAT I CAN GET MY LIFE BACK AN REVENGE IS NOT PART OF THE PLAN.I hope this helps I am new here an there is so much that has happened .If you have left him do not look back....

Hi, thanks for adding your new information. I am very sorry for your situation. It must have been or is a long haul. It is good that you know what you are dealing with. I agree with you, perhaps thoughts when the going gets rough but to actually engage in revenge might be a very slippery path.

I assume your children are now out of the home? Was he able to convince them he was the strong one like he did your friends? I hope you can gain whatever you need here and we are all hear for you to discuss your situation as you are ready. It is interesting how observant you are and haven't given up on yourself. To be able to identify him after all these years of torture shows a great deal of strength on your part. And yes, it is indeed good to know what you are dealing with. No better victim than a Psychopath. In may ways it comes full circle, the Psychopath latches onto a victim, turns the victims life upside down and then appears to be the "good" person in the relationship by portraying themselves as the victim.

I am glad you found us here.

Di

HI I AM NEW TO THIS FOROM BUT I FEEL SO LOST .I CONFRONTED MY HUSBAND OF 21 YEARS ABOUT WHAT I KNEW .HE TRIED HARD TO CHANGE MY MIND AN THEN WHEN HE SEEN I WAS SERIOUS HE WALKED OUT THT DOOR WITH THE REPLY IT WAS FUN.MY HEALTH A LIFE ARE IN SHAMBLES AN HE DOES NOT CARE .I AM TO OLD TO START OVER.I AM A WREAK IS ANYONE OUT THERE?

Flora,

You are not a wreck. You are a survivor. Twenty-one years with a Psychopath is an amazing accomplishment! To endure his toxic presence in your life for so long is remarkable. That speaks volumes to what a strong person you are. I am sorry to hear that you are having health problems. Consider this the first day of THE REST OF YOUR LIFE. Consider this the beginning of some major healing- physically and emotionally.

Sorry, but, I disagree with you. You absolutely are not too old to start over. You are at an advantage over other younger survivors here. Your age gives you so much extra wisdom. What you have endured gives you so much extra strength.

Welcome to the forum, we are all healing together from the hell of the Psychopath. Please tell us more when you are ready. Your life is not in shambles, today is really a great day for you. Today, you have found a place like no other, where we really do know exactly what you are going through.

I know how you feel. I am also an older woman and I just lost it when my psychopath glibly walked out on me. I am getting better and better every day through going to therapy and friends and family -- and mostly educating myself about what a psychopath is and accepting it. It is alot like your spouse died -- because the "fantasy" or "image" of who you THOUGHT he was died - but worse because the real person is still alive and he does not care - he has NO feelings. I went through devastating pain and loss, and OFTEN anger/rage wanting vengence. I am learning to let all of that go and focus on MYSELF and I am starting to have almost complete days where I don't think about him and am developing such a sense of FREEDOM. I no longer have to worry about pleasing him -- trying to get him to love me - etc. It will get better. Accept that you have to go through "the grieving process" -- educate yourself about psychopaths -- and try to go to therapy if you can (it helps alot) - and if not, tell yourself it will get better and better each day, try your best to not think of him (and when you do, try your best to think about the cruel, evil, mean things), and you WILL reach that day when you wake up and you feel FREE and it is a really good feeling !!!!!

Hi HealingSoul2010,

Welcome to the forum. It is indeed a sad state of affairs to look at the reality of how you tried so hard to believe a Psychopath is a normal person and doing more would make him love more. When you have a chance or are ready to maybe you could tell us more of your story. If you can't find a thread, please start one. A specific title helps for more members who only read and those that post to respond to you. Many times sharing your story can help see things with a new look once it is down in writing.

Typically only kind and caring people have/had relationships with Psychopath's so you are not alone here.

At what point did you start thinking and looking into if he was a Psychopath?

Di

No absolutely not.
You may get close enough to really know them well or about them.
They may enjoy the thrill of the game.
Get a safety plan.
Life is more dangerous for everyone when they are vulnerable or under attack.
When you have the edge they know it.
They have a complex about endings,slights.
There is no happy ending,getting even scenario for you.
only personal abandonment,revenge for them.
They feel cheated.
They feel deprived, not deserving of "getting even tactics".
They will destroy anyone close enough to their truth,core self.
They live for their last word,action.
They have an ingrained "destroy the enemy" response to perceived threats.
They are capable of extreme acts of self preservation.
Avoid "the game". They are not able to loose.
In their mental world there is no such a thing,it does not exist.
There is only their self preservation. They win.
At any cost they win.

You will not be able to beat them at their own game. It is not a defeatist attitude, it is a fact. This is because they are not playing the same game as you are.

Do you know who wins in a fight? It's not the biggest, or the strongest, or the fastest. It's who is willing to go the farthest. Let's say you have a little guy that gets beat up by a bigger one. Now, what if the little guy decides that he should get a gun. If that little guy is willing to kill, he will in fact "win", and that big guy's size won't save him. That is how a psychopath thinks. They just want the "kill", whatever that is to them. And they will use and abuse families, children, authorities, anyone or anything that gets in their way.

In order to beat that, you would have to become that. Now you have to ask yourself do you want to become like this monster with this disease? I have chosen not to. You can get over dealing with a psychopath and move on with your life.

Not to mention, because their logic is often flawed, you can't even argue on the same level as them. I'll use my mother as an example:

She is a psycopath, and she likes having children for money. One day, she was attempting to make me feel bad for not giving my daughter to her in my will. She proclaimed loudly in front of my younger siblings how she was not good enough apparently (one of her effective ways of getting what she wanted was guilt, luckily I'm immune to this nonsense by now). I promptly explained that "if my husband and I both happened to die, all of my daughter's family lives one province over. She would not just lose her parents, she would lose everyone. If I leave her to family over there, they will take her to visit you. If I was to leave her to you, you would never take her to see them" (When my mother's lying and stealing catch up with her, she runs. There are large rifts between her and family members, they have not met any of her children).

Her response was "Oh please, children have been through worse".

How, how, can you logic with that? You can't. No normal person would make such a response. One other example, I had a friend who's a parent talking about another parent's skills. A dad was fighting with his 13 year old and he eventually lost control. Her response was "He's the adult, he's not supposed to go down to the 13 year old's level". My response was "He has to, the 13 year old just can't make it to his level" Fighting with a psychopath is like trying to explain physics to a 4 year old. Their brains are not built to handle that yet. A psychopath's brain is not wired to handle the logic you and I use. It's nobody's fault and it's better to accept it than try to revenge it. I have stopped feeling angry at my mother, I now feel very sorry for my mother that she never got to feel the joy I feel at having a daughter. I try to tell myself that if she was born right in the head, she would probably have loved me normally. But she wasn't, I have to accept it as it is. Now, I just watch out for her tricks, but I've stopped hating her for them.

It's hard isn't it? It's easier to accept a mental disease where someone can't form words properly or hold their limbs correctly, or they slur, or drool. It is so hard though to accept a disease where the person with it has the power to hurt so many people so many times over. I hope they cure this one day.

Congratulations about being able to say goodbye to him, and knowing hoe to confront him.

:)Hello. I am back but still do not have the psycho served. However, I think soon I will. Wasn't able to spend a lot of time tracking him over the summer because of other priorities.

My therapist taught me that ALL psychopaths are narcissists. Not all narcissists are psychopaths. With that premise in mind, I know firsthand the reality of infuriating a psychopath who has exceptionally strong narcissistic characteristics. He is obsessed with style and image. If anyone insults his appearance, accomplishments, or associations, they better run fast and hide because he will seek revenge and it can be deadly!

He used me and then discarded me like I was yesterday's trash. He said and did demonically horrible things to me and others. I was in a position to tell the truth about him and I did. I exposed him and it cost him dearly and he was furious!! Luckily, I live too far from him to be easily accessible. Plus, too many people know the truth of what he is, what he did, and what he has the capability to do. So he is being closely monitored by the legal community and excluded by former friends and associates. He also knows I own guns and if he tried to take my life, I would defend myself. For all his bravado, he is very cowardly, so he has kept his distance for now.

Confrontation with a psychopath is dangerous, but sometimes necessary.

Always be aware of the potential payback from a psycho.

Thank-you Dianne! My psychopath, M. owes me around 10,000. for 15 months (not counting in dog years, cause that's how it feels on this side) of havoc. Including marriage, the one year mark is coming up. Somehow he bilked me out of this huge amount of money, I am so mad at myself and disgusted with him.... The better news is, all the pieces seriously fell together quickly after just under three months of Holy Matrimony (insert dripping sarcasm here) and he was gone. I have 2 pretty healthy kids and a whole bunch of healthy friends and they, with one voice, said 'let it go. let him go.'

I think one of my take-aways is that, if I am being completely truthful, I think I married him thinking that was my best chance to recoup my loss. duh. SO no. Plus I just wanted marriage with this person I adored being with, and who thoroughly entertained and engaged me fully.

He has tried to re-engage me again very recently, after no contact whatsoever for about the last 6 months. The connection I felt with this man is unlike anything before. On every level for me, I just loved hanging out with him! Great personality, hilarious, charming, we had great mind and body chemistry... I didn't stick around long enough to see him come out fully. I have read pretty extensively re. psychopaths, and going down the typical list, M. is a poster-child. Parasitic lifestyle. Spends money like a drunken sailor, esp. yours. Charming. Lies coming, going, and staying. Cheater. Thief, in general. No conscience to speak of, no remorse detectable. Shallow, over-the-top emotion (other than anger, which he was just warming up when I pulled the plug)... history of incarceration and child-hood evil. His brother told me after the fact that he was actually diagnosed as a psychopath as a teenager - prepared to back it up with a name and place.

So, no matter what there is no future. He is like the perfect personality mate for me who is, at core, a moral vacuum, with no character development. There is simply not an iota of substance and nothing other than disaster for anyone who has the misfortune to be his romantic target (or otherwise, just being in his life in any important role is at the very least psychologically damaging.

Just wanted to write my first post....

Any thoughts on the 10,000? It's ALOT of money for me. But I am very vulnerable to him in every way and fully convinced I will always be. There are no children involved and a nice prenup (because of course I had the only assets between us, and I insisted on it) so it should (fingers crossed) be a straitforward divorce... I hope that is not delusional.

Welcome to the forum lisejade,

I don't recall in the last 14 years having a victim checking in at the forum to let us know that she recovered what had been taken.. I would assume he took your money over time?

psychopath's take they don't give, they have no empathy for how this is making your life be.

Years ago someone not a psychopath owed me 10K, One of my good friends was an attorney so I asked him what to do. He said unless you need to prove you are the hottest person in the world there is no merit in a lawsuit for that amount. It would probably cost you that much in legal fees not to mention your time. I think in the end you would more than likely get a judgment for your money. Huge difference between a judgment and the cash in your hands.

You would be drawing the psychopath back your way and who knows what would happen if he gets ticked off? Think about him as being a rattlesnake, if you see it slithering away would you go up and poke it to draw attention your way and for sure get bitten? Running in the opposite direction will help you get the support you need to get through this horrible time.

You did nothing wrong and you can learn a great deal from this experience.

We can help and validate you here and get the kind words of members who have walked in your shoes. Writing tings down does a great job for clarifying things, stop by and tell us what you are thinking and let us help you work through this horrible experience.

Please be kind to yourself.

If you are up to it I think both you and the many readers may learn something about how your situation unfolded, when you saw the red flags, etc. What were you thinking and how did he get you to do these things.


Di

Thank-you so much Dianne. It is great being able to express myself here. I know I am sounding like a bit of a broken record to a few friends now... but my 1 year 'anniversary' is coming up since the ultimate accomplishment for him, which was getting me to marry him. He started trying within weeks, even days of meeting me in 09, spring.

There were red flags. He had claimed a spiritual 'transformation', and that explained all the bad in his past. He was very consistent with his stories... short on the detail, but I assumed it was hard to go over and painful for him; his consistency tho, was a strength for him, where I was concerned. M.'s mom I would say is a psychopath. too, and together, they had determined i was 'the One' for M. Whenever I had difficulty with something, the forces were brought to bear in the form of mom and she backed him up thoroughly - yet they both were clear that the bad stuff had happened, and M. was responsible. Such a twist of honesty and lies, it was believable because of the mix. M. was quick to say he was sorry and acted the part perfectly.

I feel so sad. I agree with you and everyone really I've run the scenario by. 10 grand is not worth IT. Being, any form of re-attachment. He caught me at a hard time of life, my mom had been sick through all of '08, passed away in the Fall and I met him a few short months later. He was so interesting and entertaining and attractive to me, he was the apparent perfect anticdote.... I have had many tough years, and he was the cherry on the icing of the cake of the bulk of my adult life. I feel so completely drained, coming into my 50's... hard to think of revving up something else again and 'starting over'. I feel tired to my marrow bones.

If I can, I'd like to write more over time. I'm best here and there. People really don't get this psychopath thing! They are so different than the average bear.

I think him sticking to just the headlines about his life and not any more would be easier for him to do. A slick move on his part, easier to keep the lies on track. His way of using a spiritual awakening sounds like inmates find religion probably to brush things off, sounds like he was pretty good in the lack of truth business. They all are liars,that is their strongest "talent", it is their calling card to just lie even when faced with the truth they can turn it around and become the victim.

10K is a big lump to swallow and this is only my opinion the choice will be up to you but I see pain and no return of your money in the end. Also there is no way to predict how he might react, they are big on revenge. He would for sure put the blame on you so it is a lose;lose for you to stay in his radar range. Focus on a miracle without any strings or specific requests, just ask for a miracle and it will happen and you will be a whole person again and regain your life and be even better than you ever thought you could be. Escaping and repairing a life after the horror of a psychopath is like building a new house brick by brick.

As a suggestion people just don't get it and it takes away the time for you to heal by trying to convince them. In all these years only a few people here at the forum and I stress "few" people had someone in their life who does get it. I think if more people had others close to them who did get it we would have very few members.

I very rarely tell people I know or encounter about the forum, I suspect their first reaction would be that I had lost a few screws along the way....

Di

Thank-you again, so much. 10 k is alot for me to swallow - my lawyer is my dear friend, (his wife) and they have had dealings 2x with psychopaths in business. Lost multiple thousands. And he is a lawyer. He walked away from it - now they live in a townhouse, things are doing well now, but took them years to recoup... his advice from day 1, walk and don't look back. He was my side of a very tight, highly favored in my side, prenup agreement. Thank God. My first clear red flag, post marriage (within weeks mind you), was M. trying to talk me into putting his name on my mortgage! He was sly and methodical, put alot of thought into how to bring it up, it was a clear to me then as a red beaming light. THAT was why he had no problem signing whatev, he was confident in his ability to manipulate me! It told me a couple of important things. 1) I've probably made the worse mis-step in my life by marrying him 2) He was confident for a reason - unbeknownst to me, he had already been successful in deceiving me, hence the confidence in his influence on me going forward.

It all came to head within weeks, no more than 2 months after this. (my response? I laughed at him (it was over the phone so I felt safe). I knew I had to lay my gauntlet clearly. His response was to insist I become highy life-insured. Mine was to raise another red flag. U don't know where the bottom lies for someone with no discernible conscience and no remorse.)

There are no insurance policies out on my life, it never happened.

lisajade,

The fact that he "insisted" that you get an insurance policy is really scary. I suppose you will think, this is easy for me to say since I'm not you, but $10k is NOTHING compared to your life and the peace you will get from having NO CONTACT with him. Please stay safe.
_____________

Diane,
You mentioned the statement below:

"As a suggestion people just don't get it and it takes away the time for you to heal by trying to convince them. In all these years only a few people here at the forum and I stress "few" people had someone in their life who does get it. I think if more people had others close to them who did get it we would have very few members."

I agree with what you said, especially the futility in trying to convince anyone. With that said, I'd like to talk about our situation. I'm trying to think of a way to keep this brief, but there's SO MUCH to say.

Anyway, our daughter got involved with a Psychopath 2 years ago. She was pretty young, but from the time we first heard about him red flags were going up for us ("Us" is me, my x husband, our two other daughters, son and my best friend). Of course, the only experience any of us had knowing about a Psychopath at that point was in the movies. (Unknown to us at the time is that we actually had another close one in the family, just hadn't put the pieces together yet.)

So, our life had been turned upside down because red flags, then sirens were going off, and our daughter was completely oblivious to them. One day my son came home from work with an article in the paper. Someone had written into an advice column describing someone that sounded exactly like our daughter's "finance"! And the answer this person received in the column was that she should get out, that she was involved with a psychopath. Well, that was quite a blow to us, but we started searching the Internet and reading up on Psychopath, finding Dr Hare's checklist and articles. One of our two daughters was in this roller coaster with us, and accepted also what we had found. (Her husband is still on the fence though - thinks we might be over-reacting). We tried all the more desperately to help our daughter get out of this situation. But, we did it all wrong (especially me - I admit, I freaked out over this). We took her to a counselor, who took us aside and told us, "She will marry him and he will destroy her." I'll never forget those words. I have never cried, screamed, begged, pleaded as much before. I would drive by myself to a parking lot and sob, cry, scream, pound on the stearing wheel for hours. My x husband would have to get me out of the house and drive the streets while I screamed and cried. (I told you I freaked out). I had to finally go on anti-anxiety medicine. And yes, all the while, watch her marry him and watch him destroy her.

It was then that we realized that another family member had been involved with a Psychopath. Now we had a name for it. And we wondered, how did they get her away? I called and talked to that family member's parents, hoping for an answer. But they had none - they didn't exactly know what they did right or wrong, but they did know what we were dealing with and were praying for us.

Then, last year we found out another close family member is involved with a Psychopath. The Psychopath is a part of our family (a second cousin), and we didn't realize what had been going on with them - they had been keeping it to themselves for 10 years. Finally, my close family member was with the previous one I've mentioned, and said, "If I just had a diagnosis, maybe it would help us to deal with it". And the other FM said, go on the Internet and google Psychopath. And my close family member told us this, along with all the things they have been suffering with, and the light bulb came on.

I say all of this to say that my daughter has a lot of people close to her that know what she is dealing with. A LOT. And, I think that somewhere in her she knows too. She would be able to get so much support for leaving him, but she won't.

Thanks for listening.

Hi concerned. I heard that expression from a long time friend who is a therapist, he said if people had someone to talk to he wouldn't have any business if people could just talk to each other. I don't think our society really know what a friend is, a friend is not someone you met on facebook or has been texting you and they bond to true friends. Never taking a second to put down the cell phone and stop texting and think about life, these are the things that are considered friends, the electronic gadgets they probably feel they couldn't live without, most of their contact is going to facebook with strangers, people seem happy to go talk to strangers I think because if you keep yourself with strangers via those items they will never have a model of what a friend is.

Personally I see it all erode every time I am any place and the person behind me is just chatting. Is it no longer possible for people to go to the store without chit chat with "friends". I turn my phone off when I go across town to concentrate since I am new to snow and icy roads. I turn it back on to check when I leave the store. I don't want my life to be a wave of constant chatter. I can't think of anything that would happen in that hour or so that would require me to chat on my phone. There isn't even any form of thought about others may not want to have them blabbing when they are behind you in line. I see all of this as a disconnect of relationships. Also a huge erosion of any boundaries.

These things form distant kind of relationships, in your daughters case he can text her to not bother to call so he can control what is being transmitted.

When people are on their computer they can get very ugly nothing like how they would behave around family and friends. Very odd and I would venture to guess about 80% of them lie about their status, age and a whole list of things. lIt is very strange how contact is evolving. Does your daughters husband text more than he calls or the same?

How are you are hollow words now. People really don't want to know how you are, I guess it is habit that they still ask. Only you can walk in your own shoes and do the best you can to unleash your daughter from this monster. If you are lucky and your daughter isn't able to fulfill his financial dreams he could be "hooking" up with his next victim. Money will always draw them in another direction. Most of the victims that have been here talking over the years get taken for a financial ride. If your daughter can't fulfill his right to have money and what he wants, trust me, he will take a hike. He probably does have a computer but if not I would encourage you to give him one for an outlet to go away. They like the chase to land the victim and in most all cases are tired of them after a few months. I don't know why he would be any different. Many victims say they hang in there to have that wonderful feeling from the first few months return but the evil doesn't turn back to the nice attentive guy he played before the evil comes out. Hold back on giving them hand outs of cash, if they need food invite them to dinner, your goal is to not let them starve and just handing over money brews conflict and enables him. I would make the invitation very gracious. He wants the cash and he will only ever think of himself. Without hand outs bills will get harder to pay. He won't stick around because he feels he deserves better. Then they have a choice to act like human beings and accept your invitation to dinner or take a hike to the food bank, they are everywhere, it would do him good to stand in line, all of that will repel him and keep him moving in a direction that leads out of your lives. So I suggest strongly to cut off any cash. I have no idea if you do help them out with money but if you do I would stop.

He will hate every minute having dinner with you and your husband, he can't text his friends, I would drag out the dinner. nice appetizer, the meal, some desert. Pin him in any way you can. This would also meet your goal to understand him vs. trying to convince the world he is a Psychopath and no one will listen and you will suffer more.

I am sure any meal you would prepare would be a lot better than what they buy with the money they beg for.

What do you think about that idea? Do you give them much money to help with their crisis of bills being due etc? I am quite sure that he probably wouldn't pay the bills but use the money for his wishes. He can get away with it if they have a cash source.

If the utilities get cut off, offer a room for your daughter and have him go to his family.

Di

Hi Concerned,

Thanks for the comment re. life insurance. I realize there is no comparison between the loss of 10k vs. my life. I don't believe M. has murdered before, I think it's a line he hasn't crossed, but the direction he is headed, I would not b surprised if he one day crossed over. I will be waaaaay back in his rear-view mirror by then. And prayer does absolutely help, in my experience.

It must be incredibly difficult to have to watch a daughter experience anything like this. Really prayer is your best antidote, because all adults are free to choose.... I believe God can get in there and reveal truth and bring circumstances to bear that will see her free and protected, sooner than later hopefully.

I am certain, in my case, that God intervened for me in answer to my direct prayer that He reveal truth to me, no matter what that may be, that I didn't not want to waste or passively destroy the second half of my life to evil. I have 2 kids to deeply consider as well. We were actually married under 3 mos. before everything unraveled and the door, literally, slammed shut, never to re-open. He was gone, and he has had no choice but to stay out. I do give God the credit here, I did NOT have the strength for it, I just could not help seeing what He faithfully unraveled right before my incredulous eyes.