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#9330 - 02/24/10 12:32 PM Brother is anti social I need help
Chev Offline
member

Registered: 02/24/10
Posts: 2
My brother has always been different - we were both adopted at birth and from different families - he older than me. Right from the start he hated me - would say so often and do all sorts of things, including hurting the animals to get my mother to pay attention to him. He really used to tease me til I cried, break my toys, and as we got older he even planted drugs in my room to get my parents to think I was using!

He has abused drugs and alcohol for ever, he is now 42. He has done nothing with his life, one of his many ex girlfriends had to get a restraining order to keep him away from his only (we think) child! He once threatened to throw one of his girl friends off a building! He pushed me down the stairs, drives recklessley with me in his car ( dont get in it anymore). He once purposefully killed a bird while driving after I warned him that it was in the road and he should avoid it.

He has lived with my parents most of his life, being violent, breaking things, locking them in and out of the house, stealing from them. He has been arrested countless times for drunk driving and maybe other things I dont know about. WE have not had contact really for years and he does not know where I stay. He once took me to a crack house unexpectadly and left me in the car while he purchased what I think was crack ???!!! Not sure 0-) it was a little rock thing.

He has never held down a job and has physically attacked loads of people. My parents have both died recently - my mother from motor neuron disease \:\( and my dad from heart failure just recently. My brother was there when he died and I suspect was instrumental in bringing on the heart attack. ALthough we could not get an autopsy done as we had to get full family approval and my brother refused it. I was so upset at the time and since then (december 09) that I could not and still dont think properly about these things and should have insisted. My father has written my brother out of the will - I am not sure if he knows yet. On the day my father died, he called me and said - get here, Dad's dead. he refused to sign the death certificate from the paramedics so they had to wait an hour for me to get there as I live far from my Dads place.

WHen I arrived, my brother was drunk and unable to be spoken to, he sat poking my da with his crutch ( my brother broke his hip in a car accident ten years ago and has never had it fixed - he lives in pain mostly but refuses to seek proper medical care - he did get a pay out for the accident of R350000 but spent it all on parties and clothes in about 6 months. He also lent me R5000) However, back to the story, my dad was lying, deceased on the bed and my brother was saying get up you ***er - you cant be dead.

My brother did say at the time that he felt that my dad would not have died had he not been fighting with him (which is guilt? does this show empathy? Does this mean he does not have anti social PD?) Anyway when the coroner arrived, he freaked out would noy let them touch him etc etc. Eventually managed to get that done and as they loaded my dads bosy, nmy brother noticed that the one guy has a missing thumb and he starts joking abuot it as he also has a missing fingure ( he got it shot off in a bar playing william tell with beer glasses).

WHen all the people had left and it was just my brother and me, he cheered up a lot and started talking about how it was just him and me now! I am terrified of him!!!!! He constantly calls me with weird lies and stories about what he is doing - he stayed on at my dads place, and almost immediately made my dads cat stay out of my dads room, changed her food to cheap rubbish and threw out her kitty box (she was mostly an indoor cat) he refused to let my cousin take the cat and eventually I took the cat - she is ok now but hates my cats! \:\) however, he alsp kept my dads false teeth. They where next to his bed. WHen I moved out some stuff I asked him what we should do with them and he said he wanted to make a 3D picture with them! He laughed but was serious if you know what I mean. Because my dad left him nothig I wanted him to have my dads car (which he already smashed) and some stuff. He keeps phoning the bank about my dads money and calling me about what to do with it - he says he has the bank on the phone and so on. I know its all a game and that I am his next victim. However, I do not know how to deal with it/ it sucks me dry of all my energy and I constantly think about him 24/7. Its got so bad I cant sleep! I need some support as no-one understands.

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#9331 - 02/24/10 08:48 PM Re: Brother is anti social I need help [Re: Chev]
Dianne E. Offline

Administrator
member

Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 2788
Loc: United States
Hi Chev, welcome to the forum. I am giving your post some thought and will answer in the morning.

Di

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#9333 - 02/25/10 04:04 AM Re: Brother is anti social I need help [Re: Chev]
Jan
Unregistered


Hello Chev

I hope we can offer you the support you obviously need. Your situation sounds extremely worrying and Iím not surprised you are concerned for your safety. Itís sad that you have lost your parents and now you have to go through these problems without their support. Your father must have been fully aware that if he left your brother anything in his will he would have used it and wasted it on drugs and alcohol which would have enabled him to carry on doing it. Although he will probably do it anyway.

Can you tell us more about your brother when he was growing up? What was he like before he started using drugs? Do you know anything about his biological parents? He may have suffered problems even before he was born if his mother was exposed to toxins while she was pregnant- toxins such as alcohol.
There is often sibling rivalry but your brother does sound worse than most. Do you have any other brothers, sisters or family members you can rely on to support you?

As you will realise no-one on the forum can give any sort of diagnosis but we can help you find information to help you work out what is wrong with your brother. What we usually tell members is to have no contact with people like him because of the trauma they cause. Even though he is your brother it doesnít mean you have to have anything to do with him if he causes so much damage. He sounds very callous and maybe even a little out of touch with reality. He may have a range of disorders that make him behave like he does but unless he gets a diagnosis of something he will not get help if there is something that can be done for him.
Often people with personality disorders only get assessed when they get caught for criminal activities or in child custody battles.

If there is an injunction in place to keep away from the mother of his child he must have a record of some kind. It might be possible for you to get an injunction to keep him from contacting you if you are afraid of him. Often the injunction means not even phone calls can be made or the person can within a certain distance of your home.


Now you have found our forum you will find everyone here understands what you are going through and that someone not only invades your life but also your mind. Sometimes just writing about your problems helps you see them differently and look for a solution and many times just letting go of the anger and frustration give a little relief.
If you feel you can then if you tell us more about the background to your story then we can listen and offer support. Is there an outcome you hope to achieve?

Regards
Jan

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#9335 - 02/25/10 06:20 AM Re: Brother is anti social I need help [Re: ]
Chev Offline
member

Registered: 02/24/10
Posts: 2
Hi Jan

Thanks for th ereply, it is really nice to have someone to talk to because other people simply dont get it.

History is as follows:
I know that once he passed out / fell asleep when he was young - possibly about 4. He also had a near drowning incident when he was young, but from what I understand, he literally fell into the pool and my dad grabbed him out. My father once mentioned that my mother had shaken my brother whilst he was young - I have read that this sometimes causes brain damage, but to be honest I have no idea of what happened, so its hard to say. He always struggled at school and was often moaned about by his teachers as being disruptive at school, and very naughty. He never really wanted to do well or please anyone, and was always fooling around, causing havoc, messing up family meals etc. He has a speach problem, stuttering and attended some therapy for it, but not for very long.

He was also considered to be a possible dyslexic, but this really was never proven and he seems to cope well today with reading etc. He hung around with the naughtiest kids and was always in trouble. He started stealing money from my mom early on. Once he put salt in her bed because she punished him. He enjoyed putting a sock over the cats head and laughing while she tried to get it off. He has always liked animals and had them around, but enjoys scaring them, is very physical in his discipline of animals and ready to lash out at them. At my dads 80th he hit my dog on the head when she was sniffinf around the food, so hard she cried out. When I told him off, he told me to F*** off and just leave. As a child he set a fire to my neighbours yard with their child (they are still friends) but then I also set fire to a veld (accidently!) when I was a kid!!! He never listened to my parents or considered any punishment serious. AS he got older, he would just ignore them of he wanted to. He was involved in a situation with friends sniffing a product called spray and cook (its like a non stick cooking spray), and one guy died. There was a rumour that my brother somehow was instrumental in his death - but I never got the full story.
He was also physically attacked by a teacher at school who broke his tooth - they same teacher eventually did it again to another student and was fired. He always had lots of girl friends, woman seem to like him alot, but they are often really "cheap" types (not to be offensive - but seem to be very free with their favours, drink a lot and take drugs. Our relationship was never good, he would often physically hurt me, trick me and think it was funny (once shooting me in the foot with his pellet gun) and often getting me into trouble - some of it WAS normal stuff, but he also did evel things, like killing off my pet fish, making me watch our hamsters fight, putting my per hamster into the fish tank ( he lived) and later threatening to kill my pet dog. THis dog I left with my parents when I moved out of home at 22 years because I could not live with my brother anymore.

He often threatened to kill her to my parents, and physically abused my father, and broke many things at their home. I think he started using drugs early on - about 12 to 13 and progressed into more hard stuff, although he never seems to suffer any physical ill affects, except once, when he had huge sores all over his body - these cleared up though. As a teenager, he had terrible acne and very bad posture as he was very tall early on about 6ft at 15 and he had to go to gym to strengthen his back. He did stick to this for many years and it seemed to give him something to do. He would often start arguments, it seemed he was always trying to get attention. He reminds me very much of my daughter sometimes - she is also an attention getter. However, there was something more in what he did, its hard to explain, but he seemed to really enjoy upsetting people. When he upset my mother, she would loose it and he would laugh. My daughter is rather prone to be sorry and try to make up when she upsets me. He was mad about motorbikes and always had one right from when he could (about 16) and had countless accidents. He stopped going to school at about 16 and never completed high school. He always lied about everything.

I mean everything. He lives a lie. It never ends. He went to do national service ( it was a legal requirement in those days in S Africa and he was in a special unit due to his spinal problems and so did not do much physical stuff, however he managed to get up to all sorts of really bad things in the army. He loved the army and looked forward to going back and doing his camps - he became and army driver. During this time, things where a little better between us, and I think he really missed home. However, shortly after this, he decided he met a clubbing crowd, all older gay men, and he started wearing make up and hanging out at the clubs. I remember asking him if he was gay ( i thought perhaps he was and this would explain why he found it hard to fit in) but he said no, he was just making them think that he was. It was a weird time indeed! He seemed to get worse as he got older, being fired from many jobs for not attending work, stabbing the tea lady (not fatally), stealing company money, attacking people etc. He had a dog once that was shot dead during some kind of fight, and he often had animals that he would allow to breed, not look after well etc.

I must point out that we come from a family that is VERY loving towards animals and really looks out for them, so this was abnormal for us, even though for some people it is ok. If I do the Hare test on his personality he scores 37, but of course, this is what I think and see, not what he may be feeling. However, he is beyond anything within normal ranges. He does not care for anyone. He is very arrogant and very cunning (but not really clever if you know what I mean) he has to be one of the sneakiest people I have EVER MET! He cannot have long term relationships with anyone, they all get rid of him because he steals, lies, lives off people etc. He had no worries about locking my 80 year old dad out of the house, at night, whilst my paralysed mother lay in bed. He seems not to care about what he makes other people feel or think and he does find physical pain in others very funny! He has fooled many people into thinking that he had just had a hard life, bad luck etc, and just needs a break and then he rips you off and lies about it to the end. He has NEVER admitted a lie, even when caught out, he just changes the subject and moves on!!
It is impossible to deal with because you never know what is coming next! He will pretend that he cares about you, like promising to llok after you and sometimes even coming to help you out, say if you get stuck or something, but then will almost kidnap you for the day, driving recklessly and scaring you and laughing about it all the time. He will shout at kids to put seatbelts on and then drive like a mad man. Once he asked me out to breakfast, and really wanted to impress me and I went along and he took me to a bar and we had an ok breakfast, and he started drinking and then we spent the whole day there and he would NOT leave. Once he helped me out and lent me money. Once he took me driving to help with work and sort of behaved. IN fact he was very sweet. I hoped he may be getting better, but he promptly took money I gave him to pay for my car repairs and stole it, then told my dad I could not pay my bill and took his money too!!!!! Now that my dad has passed and left me money, he os phoning banks, lying to me about things, trying to get his hands on the money I reckon.
I will write of more childhood things if you like, but need time to remember them!
lots of love
Mandy

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#9337 - 02/26/10 03:30 AM Re: Brother is anti social I need help [Re: Chev]
Jan
Unregistered


Hi Chev

I am more than happy to talk to you, I know just what itís like when you can clearly see things others donít. It seems that no-one can understand that there is a serious problem and you canít get support from the people you know.

You brotherís history is interesting. You say he passed out/fell asleep when he was very young, do you know if this was usual or just a one off occurrence? I suppose you were very young at the time and can only go on what you have been told. Now your parents are no longer around I donít suppose you have anyone else who can tell you what was happening at that time.

I wonder if your mother shook him out of desperation and anger with his behaviour? Maybe she was suffering from stress and found it difficult to cope with a child like him. Children can suffer brain damage from being shaken but it makes me question which came first, your botherís bad behaviour that caused your mother to be angry with him or the shaking that caused his problems. If your mother didnít react like that with you maybe he pushed her too far.

From the behaviours you describe I can relate them to my own experience of my partnerís kid, apart from the stuttering speech. He would pretend to not even understand the alphabet rather than look a word up in a dictionary and a lot of his failure at school was by choice. Maybe your brotherís dyslexia was a similar problem? When you mention him copying gay friends that sounds so much like when psychopaths mirror other peoplesí behaviour. They copy and absorb what they see and behave in the same way when they need to perform. A lack of their own psyche? A way of fitting into a group to manipulate or just lack of a normal personality? ,

Your brotherís drink and drug problem must make the situation far worse because there is no way you can communicate with someone who is affected by them. There again I donít suppose your communications with him are good any time.

You seem to have studied Hareís checklist very thoroughly and from what you say about how you would score him, he does sound seriously on the scale. If he is psychopathic then there is nothing you can do to help him and everything you attempt will be at your emotional expense. Without a diagnosis you can only speculate. Knowledge is power so I would suggest you read everything you can on the subject. I donít know what your hopes are for an outcome for this situation but whatever you decide you will get support here.

Have you ever heard of the McDonald Triad? If you ĎGoogleí it you will find information that you may find of interest.

I would like to hear more about your story and I hope by writing, it will help you make some sort of sense of what has happened and how you feel you should deal with it.

I had to wince when I read that he took you out to breakfast and was ĎsweetíÖ.I know that one so well! The kid used to be the model child before he dropped the bomb. I learned NEVER to fall for him being nice, it was not genuine and was pure manipulation. It made my flesh crawl. It must be so difficult when that happens if you are hoping this is the breakthrough moment, that they realise they need to change, they are good inside. When it falls apart you slide further back down the hope scale and feel abused yet againÖand foolish for falling for itÖI have seen my partner do it and itís painful.

It would be very interesting if you know his birth parents and if he has any other siblings and the reason his mother couldnít take care of him.

He may be your brother but he has choices and if he decides to behave in a way that is bad for you then he should not infringe on your life. It will be hard for you to Ďset him freeí especially if you feel responsible for the people he will hurt. If you could cope with him you would have done so already and there are not many people who could hang on as long as you have done.

Maybe now is the time you feel ready to set yourself free?

Regards
Jan

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#9894 - 07/22/10 02:46 PM Re: Brother is anti social I need help [Re: Anonymous]
burntrose Offline
member

Registered: 06/27/10
Posts: 2
Dear Chev:

You are not alone! I have a family member; a weird brother; he always gets away with things, but my mother hates ME. I am the one she singles out; and people have paid who have let her into their lives. My brother is a also a drug user, abuser; retraining orders;, etc. My mother lifts him up as though he is a little god, but I, who always loved my family, am the one who is targeted by both of them. They work in tandem. Family does not always mean blessing. It can mean a toxic waste dump that will destroy you. Anyone; in-law, nuclear family, that tears you down, or employs the help of others to do so, should be avoided. You know in your soul, because you are a good person, that something is wrong. AVOID him/them at all costs. Do not associate, and thank God for what you have everyday. You can't go wrong. I have fought nuclear family; (my mother for the most part, and many good men have paid)my father escaped in 1969. I was left with the aftermath (my mother--a psychopath). I am 51 years old now and I have to get on with my life. It can take THAT long to get out of a situation; you can actually gtow old; if you let the wrong people into your life. Take heed and dismiss anyone who causes you pain and sorrow. ("Let no one take you peace from you--Jesus Christ).

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#9985 - 09/05/10 04:54 PM Re: Brother is anti social I need help [Re: burntrose]
twin Offline
member

Registered: 09/05/10
Posts: 74
Hi All -

I'm new to this forum and appreciate all of the information that I've learned from reading the posts.

Where do I begin? The most immediate problem is this: Our mother (who is now 83 y/o) has been financially exploited and emotionally manipulated by our brother for as long as I can remember. She has enabled him over the years and is unable or unwilling to see his pathology or the need for him to get professional help.

As she has aged, her own enabling has taken more of an emotional toll on her. A few years ago, I noticed that she was having problems with depression. I took her to her doctor who asked her if she was still able to do the things that she enjoyed previously like walk at the mall, go to the library, etc. When she responded that she was not able to do those things any longer because she didn't have a car, the doctor asked her how long she hadn't been driving. She told the doctor that her son was using her car now and she couldn't always get it back from him. After the appointment one of the nurses took me aside and asked me "Who is (Blank)?" When I told her it was my brother, the nurse said that our mom is always talking about him and how he doesn't have enough money.

Our brother has lead a parasitic lifestyle. He often worked temporary jobs with the intention of collecting unemployment when those jobs ended or if a job was of full-time he would be fired and completely satisfied with collecting unemployment benefits for as long as he could. Over the years, he would explain his money problems to our mother who would give him money to help him make ends meet. When I confronted him that being financially responsible for an adult son at her age was too much pressure on her, he responded that it was her fault because he didn't ask for the money she offered it to him.

We've discovered him looking at pornography on her computer. He's also raised havoc in our family, stirring up trouble between people and then watching the events unfold with an almost ambivalent attitude.

My mother is in deep denial about his problems and his manipulations. He claimed that he needed the car to travel back and forth to work, but we've got friends who have seen him all over town in it at all hours of the day and night. When we talk to our mom about it she almost shuts down or says, "I've got to keep him employed." His place of part-time employment is only 2 miles from his apartment and directly on the bus route, but he claims that the buses aren't reliable which she buys.

About 6 months ago, our mother was hospitalized with a severe fracture. During her hospitalization, many of my siblings were visiting her daily and spending as much time as possible with her. He visited her only occasionally, but did manage to use her car without anyone's knowledge. And guess what, he crashed it. Had no money for the deductible. During this time, we found out that she had been paying his car insurance policy for years.

While our mom was recuperating at my house, he caught bed bugs. There is a strong possibility that he picked them up incidentally because there is an outbreak in our area, but there is also the possibility that he picked them up from an "asian massage parlor" that he's been known to visit. When we told him that he couldn't see our mom until he got the problem treated, his response was "You can't tell me what to do. It's my decision. I'll see her when and where I want to." Keep in mind, the near constant warnings on the news in our area talk about immediately utilizing a professional exterminator and nearly "quarantining" yourself because the bugs and their eggs can be dropped from infested clothing.

About a week ago, my mom despite our warnings allowed him into her condo. When I asked her, at first she denied it completely then she said she allowed him only into the building's lobby then she admitted that she let him into her kitchen. Honestly, I was furious at her and I yelled at her because of how she put herself at risk, as well as those of us who help care for her. When I confronted him about it, he said (predictably) she invited him so it wasn't his fault.

My sister's counselor suggested that we file a civil protection order against him, but we're all worried that it will turn our mother against us. When my sister told him after the incident when he went into our mom's condo that she'd file the protection order if he did it again, he said that she was threatening him and played the victim. This is a predictable pattern for him. He often escalates situations deliberately and when confrontations occur he is able to play the victim.

Any thoughts or advice would be appreciated.

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#9986 - 09/06/10 12:30 PM Re: Brother is anti social I need help [Re: twin]
Dianne E. Offline

Administrator
member

Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 2788
Loc: United States
Hi Twin,

Welcome to the forum. Your brother certainly has all the earmarks. I have known of other elderly people who became aware of what their child/adult was at an older age. The big difference is they had broken through the tough denial regarding their child. I am not asking where you are but here in the US we have Elder Abuse. My brother and his wife had to call them in due to her sister bullying the elderly father. My brother said he was very impressed by how quickly they took action.

The only person you can help or save in this situation is your mom, your sister's counselor is quite correct in what she is saying. I would however have some safety program so that any ruling is enforced. Quite often it takes the person being abused like your mom to be the one to call the authorities. It doesn't sound like she would do this when he comes around. No better victim that a Psychopath while they are themselves the victimizer.

A restraining order is only worth the paper it is written on if there isn't anyone to report your brother and his actions.

To help your mom escape would you and your siblings be able to have your mom stay with one of you for a couple of months each? Maybe the best thing that can be done for her at her age is to provide some peace and a stress free environment. As long as your brother is in the picture things may just get worse. Forget about him and focus on your mom. He probably doesn't see anything wrong with his actions.

I am wondering does your mother give him cash or checks?

I can only imagine your mother has had her heart broken by trying so hard to help your brother.
It is the trait of an abuser or Psychopath to isolate and control. It seems your brother is doing quite a job.

Please keep us posted of what you can find or help you can find that works for your situation. It helps others to read about your situation.

Di

How old or approximately how old is your brother?

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#9987 - 09/06/10 02:02 PM Re: Brother is anti social I need help [Re: Dianne E.]
twin Offline
member

Registered: 09/05/10
Posts: 74
Thank you Diane. My brother is about 57 y/o. I'm not sure, but I think she gives him cash. My sister and I have talked about going to Adult Protective Services. We're in the information gathering phase right now. She just left my home recently and in a little less than a month he seems to have undone the progress that she made. She makes so many excuses for him that there are times when she is literally angry with us when we bring it up. I became so insulted by her attacks that I yelled at her.

My sister tried to give her a few books about how mental illness impacts the family and she got really angry at my sister. We know she carries a lot of embarrassment and shame about this. Recently, my husband tried to talk to her about how we're trying to protect her and she told him "(Blank) isn't a bother to me. He does help me." (He doesn't by the way. The only help he does give her is things that we've directed him to do. For instance, we've told him that if he uses her car he should not leave her with an empty gas tank. She pays her money to fill it.)

He's been this way throughout my entire upbringing. Any positive attention directed to another person would unleash an impulsive outburst or a calculated effort to urge others to "gang up" on that person for some imaginary reason. Holidays, birthdays, graduations, weddings, etc. have all been marred by some sort of argument or physical fight.

Further complicating matter is that he is undergoing treatment for cancer. Truthfully, when he is gone I know that I will feel a sense of relief. However, he's her son and she is devastated by this. We've recently helped him secure disability (my sister and I paid a friend of ours to help him fill out the paperwork to get it) with the thought that this would provide some relief for my mom. While he was in the process of securing it, he wasn't nothing short of a tyrant to the person who was helping him. He was insulting, passive-aggressive, difficult, lying, etc. When I confronted him on this because the person is a friend of mine, he glibly said "I apologized. What more do you want?" He's yet to say thank you to me or my sister. He actually acts quite entitled.

ugh.







Edited by twin (09/06/10 02:05 PM)

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#9988 - 09/07/10 01:54 PM Re: Brother is anti social I need help [Re: twin]
Dianne E. Offline

Administrator
member

Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 2788
Loc: United States
Hi, I don't mean to sound negative but do you have proof he has cancer?

A Psychopath is in the Personality Disorder Cluster and is not mental illness. One of the "features" is to divide and conquer. It seems he has had enough years to do a top rate job on your mother. I am only guessing but her resistance may be coming from him insisting that everyone is against him and only your mother can help save him from his other siblings. The best analogy is that it is almost like brain washing, he has himself so close to your mother for her to actually believe what he is telling her. Parents want to believe the best in their child/adult no matter how clear it might be to others. He might compare your life and his need to have a life like yours with spouses, cars, and houses and the list goes on claiming poor him. Your mother has been programmed to believe anything and everything she has been told.

I would like to say it is easy but as in therapy for example the person needing the therapy has to take the first step. Therapy is not recommended for a Psychopath but just as an example. That said it is only an example because a Psychopath doesn't see anything they are doing at the risk of your mother but as a sense of entitlement. There is no better Psychopath who is in fact victimizing others yet screaming he is the victim. A very twisted arrangement to say the least. It appears that since your mother doesn't want help it may or may not work to bring in some experts. Her mind seems pretty well set. I am guessing that he probably has any funds she has in a will going his direction? Keep in mind he has had full attention from your mother since he is such a dead beat living with her a great deal of time to spin some pretty good lies. Does your mother have any friends outside of him?

Just a guess but if you can only get her finances straightened out you will have accomplished a great deal. Will she come to visit you and your siblings for a week or so at a time? That would give you an opportunity to go deeper into her financial position to keep your brother from draining her completely. I am just guessing that to get her to admit what he is would be a hard path since he has the most access and influence. Probably the best to do is make sure she doesn't end up in the poor house due to him. Focusing on her future income is probably the best reality. He has her in his clutches and unless she has a problem with it she won't hear what you are trying to say. Keep in mind these are just my concerns and not in any way concrete ideas about what to do.

If I thought someone was on drugs or high on alcohol I would be concerned about what they might do to an innocent family or person. I would follow them and it wouldn't be too hard to catch them doing something illegal and report it to law enforcement, they would never know what hit them.

Di

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