Hi,

First post here.

I'm a 48 year old male and am living with my wife in our mother's home due to the economy. My wife is 36 and my mother is over 70. Everything seemed fine. My sister was fine. She too is out of work and staying with us. She's 45. However, her attitude has become very hostile since my wife started a cleaning business and is now working.

Here is a copy of an email I had to send to other family members recently:

"
Hi XXXX.

I am very concerned about myself, (husband), O's, (wife), and M's, (mother),
mental health.

I think K, (my sister, staying with us), has a sociopathic personality
disorder.

This is characteriized by not having a normal conscience and
lying, cheating and scheming their way through life.

I'm not talking about gangsters and serial killers here. This is
a milder but equally damaging, type.

As you may know, sociopath's have a history of failed relationships,
bad work history, and leave a trail of emotional distaster in their wake.

They have different goals, K's seems to be to go through
life using people to help make her life as easy as possible.

Because they don't have a normal conscience, they are capable
of doing things that normal people would be very uncomfortable
with: lying, manipulating, cheating, crying to gain sympathy, etc.

They are also charming in a superficial way, and use their charm
to rope people into their llfe that they can use to help achieve
their goals. M, (mother), being her current victim, again!

K has borrowed heavily from M and has maxed out her
credit card, for example.

Sociopaths are scared S*****SS when they meet people who
realise their true nature....that's people like ME, you, father,
and possibly A, (sister). They will try to get rid of anyone who
they deem to be a threat or anyone they see may expose
them, and spoil, in this case, K's cushy lifestyle.

O also sees through her and now K sees both of us as
a threat.

Her mission now seems to be TO GET US OUT OF HER LIFE using
every trick in her sociopathic arsenal.

Lies, deceit, manipulation, exaggeration, distorting perceptions, etc..
etc.

Myself and O are completely innocent victims here. We keep
ourselves to ourselves and just want to get on in life. Save up,
buy a house in Thailand and move there.

I've squared this with M a long time ago, and she had NO
problem with it. This was before K moved in. M likes O
and has said so again and again.

We pay our way, and O helps M around the house and
has been very helpful and has done NOTHING WRONG
whatsoever.

I have done NOTHING WRONG that I am aware of.

So HOW is K going to achieve her goal of geting rid of us?

By manipulation, invention, lying, exaggeration, drama, etc. etc.

She has managed to turn M's perception of both of us into
a slightly negative one, but M insists we are okay.

When I confronted K with this, she went into a severe rage
and had O in tears and very angry...accused her of only being
here for her own gain..accused me of causing stress in the family,
being lazy, exaggerating tiny things out of proportion, etc.etc...

Her next trick?

To threaten to leave unless we leave....

(Edit: She has said so, I believe because she knows that would upset M)

Her next trick, if that does not work? Threaten suicide?

Whatever it takes to achieve her goal. She can
do this because she does not feel in the slightest any sense
of guilt or remorse.

When O broke down in tears, K did not show the
slightest sign of regret, remorse or shame and has since
not apologised or made any attempt to comfort O..

O has gone from being a happy, smiley positive person
into a tearful, worried wife and I cannot allow this to happen.

How would YOU feel if K did this to Y or S??

The amount of stress this is putting on us, and poor M
is frightening.

She is in the sitting room from morning to night doing M's
head in and filling it with poison.

She will do whatever it takes to elicit sympathy from people who
do not know her true nature....J, yourself? and, of course.
M herself. She is doing this by playing the victim. Talks
about her recent accident, her depression, her boyfriend trouble,
employment difficulties, etc.

Poor M is putty in her hands, and if K wants to make
M beliieve I am bad, or O is up to no good, she can do
this..

AND I HAVE TO DEPROGRAM M the next day....and bring
her to her senses if I can get a word in edgeways, that is!

K is, of course, equally adept at making people look great,
like J, her current millionaire, (she says), boyfriend.

It's her choice what she wants people to believe.

I am telling you this, because I suspect you will take her side,
feel sympathy with her and help her acheive her aim of getting
rid of O and myself, who are completely innocent victims.

I do not wish to harm K or get her into any kind of trouble.

But how can I stand back and watch her use and abuse O
and M and ruin our plans without taking some action.

We 3 need to be protected from K.

Myself and O are currently living in the f***ing bedroom trying
to avoid contact with K. I think it's the best thing to do.

I don't want to make you take sides against her or for me, I need
you to be fair and think about the innocent victims here, Me, my
wife and M.

What can we do? I can protect O and myself...but how can
I protect M?

Lately, now that K has been exposed, K is keeping
M all to herself and we have little oppotunity to talk to
M to disenfect her from K's poison.

No doubt, K will distort that and say she is protecting
M from us....

M is in an impossible situation....she is not going to throw K
out, and K is forcing her to make the decision to throw ME out
which M has said she does NOT want to do.

K has not shown the slightest sign of guilt, shame, remorse
or any other normal feeling about the amount of stress she is
putting us all in, including M who was in tears also the
other night.

She cannot provide any plausible reason why she would
want us out except imaginings, untruths, exaggerations, etc.

I need to garner support and raise consciousness to help
us all.

Do you know of this condition? Sociopathy? What should we do?
Do you think I'm exaggerating?

Please do not contact K about this. You will only cause
further stress on us all. If she contacts you, please do not
believe a word she says without verfiying the truth with myself
first or M.

Until we have a chance to talk to M and get her to see
sense again, M may also sound negative towards us,
though she assures me she does not want us out and agrees
K has mental issues.

This is because we feel that M has been manipulated to
feel badly towards us.

However, M thinks K is simply depressed.

I think it's more than that now. Much more.

Read about sociopaths. Not the juvenile delinquents, serial killers,
etc...but the milder, female types.

I have tried to talk to M about sociopathy, but she can't
accept the possibility and just says, "Oh that's just
nonsense"..

I will try to arrange an appointment with a mental health
professional for the 3 of us, so that we can know what to
do. I can't see K agreeing to come with us.

O is on the 'phone as I speak, crying her heart out to
her brother back home.

This must stop.

Regards,

B.."

===============

Does my sister sound like a sociopath and what can we do? My sister is currently waiting for an insurance claim settlement, and when that comes we hope she will be moving on. She is using this recent accident to elicit sympathy from our mother, and excuse her bad behaviour. She is extremely lazy around the house, irresponsible with money, etc.

More recently, my wife was vacuuming the living room and woke up K who rushed down the stairs and shouted the most obscene abuse at my wife, who ended up in tears again.

We have managed to avoid contact with K for almost 2 weeks, but are living in our bedroom. We have no friends in this town, so don't go out much and must stay in our room most of the time and only come out when we are sure K is not around or if we need to go into town, etc. It's easy for me as I am studying for a new career, but it is tough on my wife.

We would love to have a place of our own, naturally, but we are staying here to help us save up in return for helping our mother out. It would be very unfair if we had to move out because of K, not to mention a severe blow to our future plans, (which K could not care less about, it seems).

Thanks for any advice,

B.

Regarding the above, I have tried to answer questions from a list of traits found on
the site as honestly and fairly as I can. I've given 0, 1 and 2 where the trait is not evident, evident to some degree and definitely present/obvious. This is in relation to my sister, K.

glibness/superficial charm, 2
grandiose sense of self worth 2
need for stimulation/prone to boredom 2
pathological lying 2
conning/manipulative 2
lack of remorse or guilt 2
shallow emotional response 2
callous/lack of empathy 2
parasitic lifestyle 2
poor behavioral controls 2
promiscuous sexual behavior 0 (Unknown)
early behavioral problems 1 (cheeky/disrepectful to authority, mild bullying)
lack of realistic long term goals 2
impulsivity 2
irresponsibility 2
failure to accept responsibility for their own actions 2
many short term relationships 1 (Tend to last a year or 2, but never seem genuine, boyfriends are typically submissive types.)
juvenile delinquency 0
revocation of conditional release 0
criminal versatility 0 (Though she is exaggerating and possibly faking her symptoms for a current personal injury claim, perhaps a 1 is more appropriate?)

If you like, I can give examples of the above.

Her score is 31 or 32 if scored 1 for the "criminal versatility" trait which puts her just into the psychopath end of the scale.

Regards,

B.

Hello Brian,

It has been a while since you have posted and I wonder if you are still in the same situation, but here are my two cents regardless. Of course I cannot say whether or not your sister is a psychopath, but it is fairly clear to me that you are in a very uncomfortable and probably toxic place.

While living with your mother may seem to be economically advantageous, I wonder what you are REALLY paying for this living arrangement and if it will be worth it in the end.

Sometimes when a family dynamic is a toxic one, we can get so caught up in who is in the right and who is in the wrong that we end up getting poisoned without even knowing it. We can spend so much energy trying to make others see what we see that we exhaust ourselves. My opinion is that it doesn’t really matter if your sister is a psychopath or not, just as in the end it didn’t matter if my ex was one or not either. The bottom-line question is, “How miserable are you and your wife and how much does it matter to you?”

I have surmised from your post that you seem to be two adults more or less confined to one room in the place that is supposed to be home and haven from the world. That is a lot of stress whether you are currently aware of it or not, and I can tell you that it has a price.

You have every right to be in this house. Your mother is probably benefiting from the two of you living with her, as you are from being there. But once you add a toxic family relationship into the equation, all that goes out the window as far as I am concerned. Choose your battles wisely, and be careful that you don’t let yourself get so wrapped up fighting for your rights and trying to expose your sister for what she is doing that you lose your inner peace and balance. Those are not so easy to recoup as economic setbacks.

As far as protecting your mother goes, do you really think it is in her best interest to live in this stressful environment? Remember, you cannot MAKE anyone see what you think you are seeing, even if it is crystal clear to you. (Trust me on this, I have beaten my head against more unseeing walls than you can imagine.) Your mother has to see things for herself ~ and actually, she might be more able to do so if she had more distance from the discord and strife.

I can say this to you because I also lived in a place of utter stress ~ just LEAVE. Leave if your sister hasn't already done so. I walked away from my own house and way of life almost 10 years ago and I would do it all again for the sake of personal peace.

So there you go ~ as promised, my two cents.

I wish you both the best,
Deb

Hi Deb, thanks for your advice.

Yes, my wife and I are still in the same situation but have managed to completely avoid my sister for 3 weeks. Yes, it's still a very hostile atmosphere. I can cope, just about, as I've been in a similar situation before, and my wife seems to be doing okay, but is feeling the stress more than myself.

Us living with my mother is not merely economically 'advantagageous', it is KEY to our carefully thought out plan to help us get on with life. My wife is in a position to save money, she wants to buy a house. I need to save money to start my new career. To move out would ruin those plans. At my time of life, I don't have many options left regarding new careers. Any money that we are now saving would have to go towards rent and full share of bills and we would just be at a miserable standstill. We would both have to be in full time employment to get to the same stage. That is not going to happen easily in this economic atmosphere.

As regards fighting about who is right or wrong, I have accepted that we cannot 'win' in this situation but have to try to adapt until my sister moves out, hopefully in June. We have resolved to try to tough it out until then and my mother has asked to try to do this. However, I have made sure that my other relatives know the truth about who is causing the stress. They agree that my sister is 'cracked', and we are innocent. All we can do now, is continue to pay our way, help out and stay out of K's way unless things get worse and to the point where we have no choice in the matter.

We are aware of the stress, certainly. My wife more than myself, as she has never experienced anything like this before, coming from a poor village in Asia, where everybody is helpful and friendly. I can see the price that is being paid in terms of our mental and even physical health, but we're hoping it is only for a few months.

It is our sister who should be moving out, not us. Yes, we are here to help in return for saving money. We are trying our very best to avoid contact with my sister, and hence have avoided any battles with her for 3 weeks now. I do have a strong sense of fairness and inner strength I believe, and the two of us, my wife and I, know the game cannot be won and we both also understand that we can only do whatever is necessary to avoid confrontation. Even if that means doing more than our fair share of housework and paying more than our fair share of bills and putting up with my sisters dreadful, immature attitude. As I said, my other relatives appear to know what's going on, and seem to be on our side. Neither of us are going to confront K again. We will remain polite or walk away from any attempts to bait us. I have no further interest in exposing K, as I've made my point. I do keep my relatives up to date though, and they continue to support me, it seems. They have stopped responding to K's negative emails/text messages.

I see your point about our mother being stressed. It seems my sister is deliberately giving my mother grief in order to drive us out. "Either they go, or I'll continue to kick up a stink", seems to be her attitude. I don't think my sister has any genuine grievance against us, apart from my wife not liking her. I think she is putting it on to get her own way. We are hoping things will calm down a bit, if not, then we will reconsider moving out. My mother has taken a short holiday and I've been told that she has written letters to us which should arrive shortly. I'll have a better idea of how she is feeling, maybe, after I've read mine. She rarely talks about her feelings, if ever.

Leaving and finding an apartment is an option, but as we are unemployed, in order to get a rent allowance we have to show the welfare people that we are homeless first. That means we have to move to shelters, separately, then apply for a rental allowance. If granted, we can then look for an apartment, assuming we can find a landlord who will accept welfare cheques. So it's not something that can be done easily. Of course, if things get worse, we will have no other option.

B.

We are moving out!!

My mother is fed up with O staying in the room and
"not doing housework" when K is around!!!

I think that is heartless of my mum. She seems only to
be concerned with O not "doing chores", and not her mental health.

O has a cleaning business and works most mornings and is giving
M a fair portion of her income to help pay the bills AND does
her fair share of chores when K is not around. She will not
do chores with K present though, understandibly but M seems
uninterested in why/can't understand.

The police were called last night when K was being abusive, and
they said it's best we leave and left it at that.

M has a disturbing attitude.

Anyway we should have a new place in a few days.

B.

Hi, That is great news. You will make it on your own once you leave this situation it will be a bright new world. Your mother has made her choice and that will set you free. Will you be living close by and plan to visit your mom?

What do you mean by a disturbing attitude?

Di

Hi Di,

Thanks for your support.

Yes we have found a very good apartment in the same
town so can pop 'round to M if necessary.

I mean my mum's attitude toward my wife is disturbing in
that she is insisting that my wife do chores when K is around the
house, knowing that K seems to hate her and has been abusive to
her.

My wife is expected to do her abuser's share of the housework
in her abuser's presence!!! K always has a reason to avoid doing
anything.

They are never going to get along.

Regards,

B