When was your lighbulb moment?

Posted by: Anonymous

When was your lighbulb moment? - 08/05/02 11:38 AM

I am curious to know when the "lightbulb" went off and you finally reaized you were dealing with a Psychopath?? Was there a particular book?, was it surfing the web? Was it something a therapist said? When was the first time the word Psychopath entered your vocabulary in describing your mate?

Posted by: Anonymous

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 08/06/02 02:05 AM


Mine started with the p claiming to possibly have Multiple Personality Disorder (MPD), as the psychiatrist treating him suggested. I phoned a friend in New York, he immediately searched the web and sent me info regarding MPD.
MPD did not seem to describe my husband.

So I purchased "Romantic Deception: The Six Signs He's Lying" and "High Risk: Children Without a Conscience," and read them. In both I saw the p, more so in "High Risk...", yet only because it dealt specifically with Antisocial Personality Disorder. Then I checked out "Bad Boy's, Bad Men."

During all this I am horrified. It is him, exactly him. I have these books laying around. He and I openly discussed a lot of the information in them. He even read a lot of "High Risk...". Finally, he looked me in the eye and said, "I think you may be right. I may be a psychopath."

Looking back, I heard him say that and felt nothing, except relief that he admitted to what seemed to be the problem. I didn't feel scared, horrified, felt nothing at all. Just relief. I guess I stopped searching then, as we had obviously both agreed this was the problem. My mistake.


Posted by: Anonymous

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 08/06/02 02:17 AM

Wow Laura, you actually told him that you thought he was a psychopath!!??? I'm just amazed that you so directly let him know. I was way too wary and paranoid to ever tell the P that. I will relate more on this topic when I'm not so tired.

Posted by: Anonymous

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 08/06/02 02:35 AM


Yes, I told him. Of course, I was not afraid of him, physically, not at all. He had never lay one hand on me, or act like he would. We talked about everything our entire marriage. Everything. Nothing was taboo. Of course, I was telling the truth, he was lying. Thats why I told him. It was the truth.

Posted by: Anonymous

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 08/06/02 08:42 AM


My lightbulb moment occurred when I was so sick for the first time in all our years together after having out last child and he treated me so poorly and without an ounce of empathy. He repeatedly abandoned and spoke such cruel and abusive things that kept me hurt and spinning. After that everything kept sliding downhill. I was afraid of the P. I never confronted him with the knowlege that I received regarding his Psychopathy as I believe it would only have made him more abusive.

I was valildated by a Psychiatrist and then began reading books such as Bad Boys Bad Men, Without Conscience. Then I began surfing the web. When I found the Forum I really felt that I had found a place like no other. There were finally others like me to discuss and share and find validation for our unique circumstances.

Posted by: Anonymous

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 08/06/02 10:19 AM

Laura, I told mine that I believed he was a psychopath, too. It was actually a many years long process of flickering light bulb moments. And not much more time to write, now. Hopefully later. My p also took it well, and we had discussions, and he seemed interested in knowing more about himself, too. Although, he denied being one...the "give a crumb, grab it back" dynamic, in between interest and acceptance. And I am sure he has used this against me, as he uses everything to make me look crazy...and everyone thinks he is so wonderful...I am sure he pretends deep hurt that I actually "called him" a psychopath. While...in accordance with his skewed self perception...he accepts he is one, and it does not read to him as negative at all.

He really mystified me, a few months into our separation...he accompanied me to a meeting to support me in getting help with some hacking problems. He was bragging to the computer nerds there that I had written quite a book, and was sure to get it published, that I had come within an inch of being published previously, and THIS book was sure to be the one. He kept saying "we"...we are sure to succeed with this one...we are so close...we have been working on this for years...

I just couldn't believe it. The book is titled "Psychopath" and it is about him. He hasn't read a word of it, but he knows this much about it. He was PROUD! He was viewing the potential success of this book as HIS success! (Perhps because I have promised to share the money, which I will)

More later.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 08/06/02 12:26 PM


I wonder if our "lightbulb moments" are the p's delighted moments? Mine knew something was "wrong" with him. He expressed it verbally all the time. Each time he lied (when his lips moved), he would "apologize" by saying "I don't know why I lie all the time. It is a problem of mine." When he broke laws, he said, "I don't know why I did it," or "I didn't do it." That was his only variation of culpability. He practically verbally handed me the Checklist of psychopathy and gave me ample opportunity to "check" off most all of the criteria.

He had carried on so, his doing, not mine, about "going to treatment, in-patient, on his upcoming vacation from his job." That he would have to take a few weeks unpaid to go along with the paid two week vacation, but that he WAS going to go into a hospital for help, whether I liked it or not. He was admant about this. I felt he should, he was getting worse by the minute.

A big part of me was afraid he would "get well" and leave me. It was a sick relationship, I know that now. Yet he was determined to go for help.

So where was the delight in my "lightbulb moment?" In that he knew already what he was. Chances are great he had already been told, as he had been in much psychiatric care over his lifetime. When I knew, I ran out of use. The game had been in me not knowing.

I was somewhat dreading the month he would be gone, assuming it would have been an entire month for treatment. I was trying to mentally prepare to let him go for a month, maybe forever.

Only he had other ideas. When I figured it out (p), he began plannng the escape. He had to tie up loose ends, arrange for housing (her), store furniture from his apartment, dispose of a vehicle (the El Camino). He had to have funds i.e. money to pull it off. So I'm waiting for this in-patient thing to happen, he's planning on avoiding it all together. Plan A, Plan B.

His vacation was due the first week of June, 2001. He left in the wee hours June 1, 2001. Him delighted, me destroyed.

Posted by: Anonymous

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 08/10/02 04:38 AM


There was a thread in the old "Crimenews_2000" forum that relates closely to this question. In a post, someone (Kris?) mentioned an old movie where a female attorney defends a murderer and is convinced of his innocence, and later becomes married to him. Later, she is using his typewriter and realizes that this typewriter is the same one used to type a ransom note for his crime... and that he was guilty, not innocent, and that he had lied to her all along....
In the rest of that thread, several people post about their own "typewriter" moments.

If possible, it might be good to add that thread to the new site. I got alot out of it, (and for me, the word typewriter will forevermore have a double meaning!)

As for your original question in this thread... when did the word enter my vocabulary? I was reading alot of self-help, fix your relationship type of books. My husband's lying had always bothered me, but I never realized how bad it was until after we were married. This was due to my own state of denial. Two different books referred to the "exceptional liar" or the "psychopathic liar". The books were, "101 lies men tell women" and "When your lover is a liar". When I read the checklists in both of those books, the lightbulbs of recognition started going off and the word, with its correct definition, entered my consciousness. Previously, I thought it just meant an insane person. That was the beginning of awareness. For me, the beginning of acceptance and healing came when I entered this forum (then at Crimenews_2000). There were other forums that helped, but this one had the most extensive general information, as well as the sharing through posts, and was easiest format to use. I don't like the email list format, nor the archives that are sent out by some other P websites. But when I need some strength in dealing with it, I go to any and all sites that are online. That is how much it helps to be able to draw from the strength that others share, and even to draw strength from the weaknesses that they share, because just by reading their posts, in my own weakness I am no longer alone. That is not a case of "misery loves company", it is a case of "Thank GOD now I know I'm not nuts! Someone else out there has lived through exactly the same crazymaking experience!"

For his part, my P alluded to a problem, but I don't think he knew the word for it. He said things like, "You don't know me, I am a demon," and he would lower his eyes and shake his head. He told me that he had done horrible things, but never would elaborate. Sometimes I saw his depression from realizing that many people were angry with him, but he could not understand why (lack of empathy). A long time ago, a mutual friend hit that nail on the head when she told him he had no empathy.
When I remember him asking, "Why is everybody angry with me?" and him being so puzzled and saddened by it all, I truly feel sad for him and for all he is missing by not being able to empathize/understand other peoples' feelings, nor able to communicate any subtleties of his own emotions. So many misunderstandings, conflicts, arguements, and overall unpleasant times could have been avoided if he only had a clue on about what other people felt, and about how his own actions and words got him into some messes.

If I had been a better spouse, or more aware at the moment he asked that, I might have asked what he meant and tried to help him figure it out.
As it was, I just held him.


PS Somewhere, a researcher wrote about Ps' lack of "emotional memory" as the cause for their inability to empathize and inablility to remember how they felt in a given situation. I think that this is a key part that was missing for my P. Right now, I don't feel good calling him a "P". I just feel sadness for him.
Posted by: neverthesame

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 08/10/02 05:57 AM

I have had lightbulb moments at different stages in my leaving him and acceptance of his being a Psychopath. When I read on the internet about the signs/red flags of abuse, several weeks before I left him, a lightbulb went off, even though I hid my eyes. When he started to get more physical with me and started to hurt me a huge red lightbulb went off. Within a day of the last time he hurt me, he said something inappropriate to my daughter and her friend. I knew then I was going to back away (I was not ready to leave him) and told him the next morning over the phone because I was too afraid to tell him in person. After I left, when I called his ex wife for the first time, the lightbulb went on and stayed on. I started to know the awful truth then. His sister told me even more and the lightbulb just got brighter. The final huge lightbulb moment was the day in our Psychopath chat when someone gently told me in response to my question about a psychopath getting psychiatric help, that there was no helping them, that many times that type of help made them worse. The realization was difficult, but the light of truth has shown brightly since.

Posted by: Anonymous

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 08/12/02 03:04 AM


They just love to have something wrong with them, that can be perceived by the world to be a disability of some kind. They don't think things right through though. They are a variation in that sense of the guy who can't work because he has a sore back, and a few days later you see him in a local disco giving it stick on the dance floor.

My dear ex brother in law claimed to me when he was nineteen that he was going to go blind. It was persuasive to me at the time because he couldn't hit a barn door with a frying pan - Gosh, it just this second occurs to me that he did get his marksman's rating.... how did that come about? Anyway he was going to go blind. Thirty five years later he's doing just fine at the last report.

This guy could tell lies to his best pal that just anyone wouldn't believe....... It just never occurred to me that he was lying. And if you caught him out- unintentionally of course - and ask for an explanation, he would look mysterious and say something profound like "I think so and so could tell you more..". Just lying. But oh! The look on the face! Precious!

His sister, my dear ex wife is also one of the world's greatest at lying. Total clam up. I forget. I don't know. You're paranoid. The best was sudden shouting in a public place, which she knew very well embarrassed the hell out of me in front of other diners. The last time she ever did that I just smirked at her. That promptly drove her banannas and she took a swipe at me with a big glove which did rather hurt. Her antics of course did attract attention in that crowded public place and she trumped out, returning a few minutes later to let out a stream of curses. Oh dear me, the mask slipped right off then. By this time I had realised what I had failed to see for twenty odd years - it didn't matter a fig what anyone else thought, and that she was so easy to defeat.

Those people were mad. The lightbulb was discovering the concept of psychopathy and antisocials. The realisation that lying is an extremely serious symptom. Not lying to get out of a jam maybe, but a constructive process of lying, completely unnecessarily, for a destructive purpose.
Planning a theft is to plan the lies. Smashing stuff behind someones back is lying. Cheating on a spouse is lying first and foremost. Character assassination is lying. Liars are detestable. Unfortunately, liars like my dear ex wife and her brother are just the sort who would sail through a polygraph without a blip.
Posted by: Survivor

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 08/13/02 06:09 PM


My lightbulb first started glowing when the p and I had an argument in which he demeaned me viciously as never before. Even at the time I remember thinking that he was projecting his own traits onto me cause none of what he said fit my perception of me. The kicker was when he called me worthless, a nothing with no friends (he has no friends), a waste of life. All the while he was pounding on the door blocking my escape from the tirade (which lasted about an hour) I knew at that moment that he was mentally ill as well as being abusive but I did not think p.

The real lightbulb was when I was in the midst of writing a scathing email to him berating him for going to Hawaii with his latest target while I was applying for welfare and food stamps due to his complete abandonment of me and our daughter. In that email I told him he had better 'grow a conscience'. When I reread it at a calmer moment a beacon of light came to me: He has no conscience. I also remember calling him a "psycho" during his tirades. It wasn't long until I put together his string of abusive relationships before me, his projections, his lack of conscience, my feeling that he was a psycho and con man all neatly summed up in the term psychopath. I read alot of books on abusive relationships but even that didn't point me toward p. It was a gradual "AH HA" process...

Posted by: Anonymous

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 08/17/02 02:15 PM

My "lightbulb moment came" after talking to a psychiatric nurse that he had been seeing confirmed it to me. He had left the family after his lies and theft started to catch up with him. About a month after he left I received a message from the local hospital saying that someone was looking for him and left a number. Totally by fate, did this hospital operator decide to take it upon herself to realy a message from this person. They had his number on file because we had had a baby 7 months prior and our records were on file. I called this person and it turned out that he had been having an affair with her for about 10 months. After talking to her and finding out that he had taken money from her and promised her the world along with grandeous stories of his life, stories that seem absolutely ridiculous to me now, but also stories I had fallen prey to. We talked everyday for hours on the phone discussing and confirming things. Every lie seemed to have an element of truth. She got on the internet and started searching for things about personality disorders and so did I, we both came across discriptions of psychopaths and emailed the information to each other. If someone was standing right infront of him they could not have described him any better. The next day I contacted the mental health clinic which he said he had been going to. I was surprised to find out that he had actually gone and the nurse there confirmed to me that she had diagnosed him with psychopatic personality disorder. What a relief to know that I finally knew what was wrong with him. When I confronted him with it he didn't react at all except that he was angry that the nurse had discussed it with me.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 08/29/02 06:16 PM

08/29/02 05:53 PM

When was your lightbulb moment?

Hello everyone:
I started searching the internet many months ago looking for info on "pathological liars" for the young man my daughter was dating just seemed "too good to be true". After reading many of the post on this site, it became apparent to me that she was dating a P. I could, and can, see him exactly in a lot of the posts. It is like all P's are cut from the same mold. The lies, lies, and lies were rampant. 23years old and claimed to have a college degree, Army Ranger, CIA agent, wealthy from a trust fund, owned 2 cars-but never saw them, claimed to have $40,000 income but never had any money, wanted to marry my daughter after knowing her less than a month, but didn't want his family to know. NOTHING added up. Investigating led me to find out that the lies were definetly lies. After going over Dr. Hare's list of psychopath characteristics-he matched up with every single one. He stoled my daughters ATM card and withdrew a very large sum of money at several ATM machines, he was offended when we accussed him and told him we wanted the money back, he has written numerous checks on closed accounts and has never shown any remorse or guilt for his actions. He always built himself up to be a super God, claimed his parents were abusive, refered to his "buddies" and friends yet they were never available to meet. I would have to say that watching the movie "A Beautiful Mind" also made me sit back and think "that is so much like_____". The charm of this young man was so powerful plus the fact that our natural instinct is to trust people, that it was many months before we even suspected who or what we were dealing with.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 08/30/02 07:02 AM


I suppose that you and your daughter had a lucky escape.

I bet those two previous wives would have a tale or two to tell.

I wonder about the fellow's parents- I mean, being so charming, he must have been well brought up. I wonder if there is one parent who is distraught about him, and the other doesn't give a stuff in demonstrable terms. Imagine being the parent that cares.

I read about the percentages of these people, 4% / 1% male female, and I don't believe it. Genders are a mirror, like the population, and I think the females don't get recognised or called to account because of the importantly different way they have to operate.

But I do know a lot of men, that's a fact, who conform to the profile very very well indeed. Lying, even when they know you know they are lying. It is so distressing. But to have one as a son........

Sometimes I think that I am over it, and make brave declarations to my present wife and my daughter accordingly. "I'm finished with all the bulls---" I say. Unfortunately I am not, apparently.

Best regards

Posted by: Anonymous

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 08/30/02 08:11 AM

Hi BonnyR,

You wrote:
"Genders are a mirror, like the population, and I think the females don't get recognised or called to account because of the importantly different way they have to operate."

I agree. Yes, I have encountered females that display no conscience and no empathy (unfortunately). And who use deceit and manipulation behind a pleasing mask to gain control. That oftentimes very "passive aggressive" or "histrionic" behavior can get overlooked and enabled very easily. Probably many other behaviors, too. I appeciate your bringing up the topic.

As regards your son, I will reply on the Family Forum.

Posted by: Anonymous

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 08/30/02 02:03 PM

Yes my daughter, myself, and the whole family were fortunate enough to have a lucky escape. She fortunately now lives a very happy life with a husband who is truthful, truly loving and extremely honest. I am sure the two previous wives have many a tail to tell!! The second wife has a young child from the P. That ex wife took all parental rights away from him at the time of the divorce and I know that the first wife did everything in her power to get her "maiden" name back. As for his upbringing-I know that the father left the family when the P was 12 and moved to another city in the same state to work. 12 years later he is still in contact with the family through periodic visitations and still married to the mother.They are a low middle to low class family, no college background. It became apparent that his charm was all a fake front for our behalf since we are a well educated family that is upper middle class. He became someone he really wasn't to fit in with us. He was extremely good at "changing roles". The P held a great hatred for his father and never cared to be in contact with him. The P lived with the mother after getting discharged from the army and was living with her at the time he met my daughter. We never did really figure out what kind of relationship there was between the P and the parents. He always made then sound like non caring, abusive people, but what my daughter witnessed the ONE time she was with the whole family, they all seemed very caring and stated they wished he was around more. We still wonder if they are even aware that he is a P. I came to the conclusion that he isolated himself from the family so that he could "carry out" his cons, deceits, and manipulations without them knowing. The P told me himself that he never shared anything with them regarding his life. To this day we still wonder if the family ever knew about his first marriage. We know that they knew about the second. How difficult it must be for a parent to be excluded from your child's life either due to their choosing or yours, but it must be necessary at times so one can maintain their own well being and health. I know what you mean about dealing with the lies being distressing. This young man was not my son, although at one point I thought he was going to be my son in law, and maintaining a relationship with him after the break up was emotionally and physically draining. You so want to help, but there is no getting through that brick wall.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 12/01/02 08:28 PM

The lightbulb moment for me was when he said that he hated his parents. i never thought before that there is a difference between having normal conflicts with parents and hating your parent when you are a man of 45 years old.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 12/01/02 09:12 PM

It took a big one for me to wake up!

I almost lost my life. . .

Posted by: Anonymous

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 12/01/02 09:50 PM

3 years ago my brother-in-law's counselor whom i shared everything about my life, she even met my p and she told me that he was a p and there is nothing you can do for him
i was thinking that there was something wrong and he could take a pill or something but her diagnosis did not stick to my ribs i kept thinking about a pill he could take and even suggested to him to see a counselor and he thought i wanted to have him put away
he does say that he hates his mom and was living with her and she is a nice person i met her many time he would get violent with her for ridiculous reason she had to call the police on him many times and he would say that he doesn't understand why people are giving him a hard time he was violent to all his other girlfriends some have restraining order
he says that too that he has beaucoup money
he acts poor to see who really love him
and after he gets married he will get the money out

until for some unknown reason a few weeks ago i was looking up the word p on the net and found all these information and the light came on and then it finally hit me and found this group and read the book and i did send him some information about what a p is but not your group testimony and he wrote back (from the prison)that he wants to change but i heard that many time before
after reading everything in your group i decided to get the paper for a restraining order
he was violent with me the last 2 times we saw each other
in public and in private
so after reading you all i decided that i have to make the right decision and i met with the battered women and they told me to wait until he gets out of jail and if he trys to hurt me to call them and they will help me with the paper work
and since i read you advice NO CONTACT i stopped writing him, i stopped visiting him
he called one of our friend asking why my no show
and i don't want to talk to him because he will try to convince me that he loves me and i know it is a lie

we would be in public at a restaurant and he would tell the waitress ain't the wedding ring i showed you beautiful and the girl woul say what?
and there is no ring it is just talking an

i feel sorry for him because i feel that he was born like that and he cannot help it to be the way he is

i remember telling him how he sounds like he does not have a conscience and he cannot stop lying even if he wanted to stop.

my husband and i used to be in a christian community and would help people and now it is so clear to me that we were running into quite a few ps trying to help them out

the days are getting closer for him to get out

Posted by: Anonymous

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 12/02/02 01:19 PM

My lightbulb moment - I was sitting in my office, nothing really going on, and the P. walked by so smuggly and with a type of body language and walk as if he was "IT" and he new it. So secure in who he was and what he was about, too into himself it made me sick. I realized right then and there that I was not happy at that office, so why was I there, then I started to cry. And I got up left my office and came back a couple days later to remove everything from my office. I had threaten many times before, moving home only parts of my office only to return to try it all again. This time I really really left. It has now been 2 months exactly. I really was done. And I hope I never ever feel the need to go try out that crazy way of living again. It is very painful to let go of a dream, of a way of working, no matter how sick I now know it to have been.
This forum has been such a lifesaver, in more ways then one. I come here to read posts as often as I can, to just stay grounded. I don't want to go back, where I was, ever again. And I pray I will have the inner strength to fight off any desire to have that sick P. feel my emotional needs. He does keep me holding on if even just a little tiny tiny bit. Betterway
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 12/02/02 08:04 PM


>>This time I really really left. It has now been 2 months exactly<<

Good for you betterway. . .I know that's hard!

>>It is very painful to let go of a dream, of a way of working, no matter how sick I now know it to have been. <<

Ditto, ditto, ditto.

A word that keeps popping up in a lot of the reading I'm doing is "illusion". I think I'm actually beginning to accept that reality. I go in and out of that acceptance but am staying longer "in" (acceptance).

>>And I pray I will have the inner strength to fight off any desire to have that sick P. feel my emotional needs. He does keep me holding on if even just a little tiny tiny bit.<<

Me too betterway. Emotional ties are the hardest to break. Betrayal is shocking and hard to believe even when it is in my face. I'm praying too for the strength and courage to stay P free :-)

I'm so grateful for my friends on the forum.

Posted by: Anonymous

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 02/22/03 02:13 PM

During a manic attack, and fear of losing my child. Later to find out that the cyber creep was on the prowl. I wanted enough in one state to help get Federal Charges. Plea bargin for guilty. Not fair!
Posted by: Anonymous

Signs of multiple personality disorder in your P? - 05/20/04 12:52 PM

Laura wrote:
"It was that Dr. that told him he had possible blackout, stress induced seizure, amnesia, memory loss, multiple personality disorder...

"Knowing what I know now about psychopaths, it is very common for all those things to come into play. A diagnosis of psychopath is, no doubt, a last resort for a psychiatrist after they have ruled out evey other imaginable problem. Also, all the other stuff can equal one psychopath. But it takes time to get there."

I didn't know that. I have yet to read Dr. Hare's book, maybe that's explained there. I've searched online for information to explain my P's seeming "MPD." I'm not saying he has it, but he certainly has symptoms that are similar, and I'd like to find information on MPD-type symptoms in Ps.

My P hears a voice in his head that is, according to him, foul-mouthed, jealous, and extremely violent. Yes, it sounds like he's trying to put off his less savoury characteristics on someone else, but I think there may actually be something to this. He says he's had memory loss too, and been told of doing and saying things he doesn't remember.

Also, when in his early teens, he experienced nightly psychotic episodes: waking nightmares in which his bedroom was transformed into a Hell out of a medieval artist's darkest visions. He still has auditory hallucinations, particularly hearing phones ringing when none are.

If not for the fact that he's been able to work consistently, even running his own business for the past 4 years, I would guess that he's schizophrenic. He's been diagnosed with Bipolar and BPD. Are any of these symptoms consistent with psychopathy?
Posted by: Dianne E.

Re: Signs of multiple personality disorder in your P? - 05/20/04 07:56 PM

Hi Patty, I apologize I didn't see your post. Was this a situation where the P was a spouse. Also how did it go trying to get help from the government?

Posted by: Anonymous

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 06/17/04 11:36 PM

We-ll.................that would depend.

Looking back at those I've known in life, it would have been when I was doing abnormal psychology, had my DSM, and had to make several case dianosis.

In the reality of a moment, before I had the knowledge for a data analysis, that would have been when the subconscious sent alert signals to my brain to click on ALERT---something is not right here, be wary of this person.

I want to comment, however, that the few that I've had to deal with, btw the term is antisocial, were not killers but thieves. They just lied and told stories and said whatever was necessary to get what they wanted.

There are very few types of people in the world that make me furious. One of them are those who are either cruel to animals or misuse animals to advance their ways. The second is the antisocial and, from my experience, the antisocial thief. Granted, given the DSM, both types of people could be related.

But............we see examples of the antisocial thief practically every day. That's the type of person they are depicting on the identity theft commercials. They are up there on the screen, telling how they took the money without a thought for the other person to advance their own, usually vanity, needs. All for them, the world is just there for thier fun, etc. etc. etc..

Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Signs of multiple personality disorder in your P? - 08/13/04 03:01 AM


I don't agree with Laura that Psychiatrist diagnose Psychopathay as a last resort. They use Hare's diagnostic checklist. If the individual meets the criteria they diagnose, if he/she doesn't meet the criteria they don't diagnose.

Some camps believe that Psychopathy is a genetic condition. Certainly some of the stories on this board reflect the pervasive and enduring callousness and lack of conscience throughout an individual's (P's) life.

Other camps believe that aside from the genetic manifestations, some cases of particulary neglectful and abusive nurture can produce Ps.

MPD is not a core symptom in psychopathic or antisocial personality disorder. Research shows that the etiology of the multiple personalities is via defensive reactions to severe abuse &/or trauma. Of course individuals who are very sensitive to contention can also use alters to deal with difficult situations. If any of you saw UK's Big Brother 5 you could see Stu assuming personalities to shield himself from boredom, and the empathy of having to be unpleasant to his fellow housemates (he assumed an action man persona when he was told by Big Brother to wake them all up). Also notice how quick the show was to intervene when he seemed reluctant to relinquish his cowboy persona...

Well, in common with Hare's descriptions, most of the time, my P can be as congenial as you could wish for (he's too good to be true), when he's around me and he's stable he will drop down into his "softer" & intimate persona, and when he's like that you can't believe he's capable of cruelty. Then something happens, too much or too deep emotional intimacy seems to trigger him to feel vulnerable, and without a word he changes into this ambiently abusive monster, where I get the feeling that my existence aggravates him, and its just a matter of time until he starts behaving psychopathically.

Once he gets like that the only thing you can sensibly do is head for the hills. In a couple of months, he calms down and his soft & intimate side starts to feel isolated and it comes looking for me.

This is the cycling that a lot of us talk about.

So i don't think mine is a genetic case, and I do recognise the lack of a single integrated personality (no integrity or dignity). However I think we all have to be careful not to imply that all who have Multiple Personalities are Psychopaths and vice versa.

I do think this is a very interesting area of discussion as it seems to me most of the stories on this section of the board are more pertaining to non-genetic psychopaths as those seem quite incapable of the emotional investment as is necessary to get someone to be emotionally bonded with you. As it appears that it is through abuse of the dependency that we established on our Ps that we got hurt, and the Ps had invested often considerable time and sometimes money in getting us to that state of dependency, which makes us all feel duped or cheated as well.

Posted by: Anonymous

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 08/15/04 12:43 PM

I found myself dealing with two psychopaths at the same time. One was my now ex-husband and the other was his lover, whom was at the time of my discovering their relationship also a wanted fugitive for a 17-year-old murder. The "lightbulb" went off when I found a name change document of his lover changing one name for another. The next "lightbulb" went off when after filing for divorce I went to see a doctor for help in dealing with the discovery of my husbands secret life. She asked me if I'd ever seen "The Crying Game" movie. Upon saying no, I was advised by my doctor to rent it, as it reminded her of my husband and the situation he was in. It was then, after watching the entire movie that I realized my husbands lover was a killer and had set his eyes on getting me out of the picture permanently. Getting my doctor to believe me of my discovery and getting the police to believe that I had uncovered an unsolved murder was the worst part. The FBI and police had long forgotten about this murder. I only had the first name of the victim, but no idea where in the US or when the murder took place. The killer knowing I was onto him and living just two miles down the road from me began making desperate hang-up calls to my house. Scared for my life I had to call the police and tell them my situation. Although it was taken as someone in the police dept. pulling a joke, it was checked out and found that I was telling the truth. My ex-husbands lover was arrested for the 17-year-old murder he committed in South Carolina. My ex-husband later admitted to me he used me as a cover for his double life. The biggest shocker was discovering my ex paid for his lovers transsexual operation, this knowing he was wanted for murder. I just wrote a book about my story and hope to get his published someday. When I look back on everything that happened I often wonder how I made it through. I'm lucky I'm here.
Posted by: recovery

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 08/15/04 02:04 PM

Hi Donita,

Welcome to the forum.

WOW - you are lucky as you say and it should be quite some book - let us know when it is out. You sound very strong but this must have shaken you to the core when it went from light bulb moment to opening the can of worms.

hope to hear more from you

good luck
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 08/15/04 02:26 PM

The likelihood of my book being published is very slim. My ex-husband, now deceased was in the movie business. He was an Academy Award Nominee and Movie Director. His connection was kept silent in the media as Hollywood is not very nice about telling the truth about something like this on the inside. This whole ordeal has pretty much ruined my life and broken me in every way you can think. I'm giving it one last shot at trying to get my book published. Wish me luck.
Posted by: sylvie25

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 08/22/04 01:21 PM

My lightbulb moment was poignant in the way that it happened. We (the P & I) were sitting watching the OJ trial and someone talked about abusive men and how they are usually controlling, possessive, manipulative, jealous, have angry outbursts and violent tendencies. I realized then that they were describing the man sitting right by me and it was incredibly disturbing. He simultaneously seemed to get that I had made the connection and turned around to me and said in a cajoling voice (that creeped me out) "You don't think I"M like that DO YOU??" Like hell I didn't! That was the beginning of the end for that relationship as far as I was concerned, I didn't need to know more. It solidified my misgivings and dread about marrying him in a way little else could - there was nothing more to debate, I wanted out.

I've always wondered if other women came to similar realizations about their partners at that time. I hoped they did, so that as much positive could come out of something so heinous. If I recall correctly that was one of the first high profile cases that brought attention to domestic abuse and the Jekyll and Hyde nature of those types of men. A silver lining.

Posted by: Nan

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 08/23/04 06:21 AM

Hi Sylvie and Mati,

Glad to see you found solace in talking to each other. It's the best cure of all.

My lighbulb moment happened AFTER I had decided not to see the P again. I knew that he was dangerous for the last time I saw him, he said that he would kill me. We had been discussing an issue of which I KNEW that I was right, but he got very annoyed and argumentative about me having said flat out that he was wrong. I had reached my limit with him and told him off while leaning against the table and saying, " I am so sick of tired of you always having to be right." I have a fiery temper and I must have looked threatening, for he too leaned forward and said, " If you touch me I will kill you."

I got up, so I could defend myself should he become abusive. He too got up and moved towrad me while trying to grab my shoulder. He got a hold a me and tried to shake me. I moved away and he moved with me. I did not say a word. Again, I moved away from him and when he tried to grab me again, something in me snapped. I could myself changing from defensive to offensive mode and I knew that if he tried to hurt me, I would defend myself with everything available to me. I also knew that I could/would kill him. I just stood still in the middle of the room with all my senses sharpened to a fine point. He took one look at my eyes and I could visibly see him deflate. It was very clear that he would not dare take me on. He turned around and sat down. He later told me that he could see the danger in my eyes.

Of course, he then did his whiney thing about me almost giving him a heart attack and how nasty I was, and how inconsiderate and so on and so forth. He just sat there like a little boy with a 'woe is me' expression on his face.

After that I knew that I would never see him again, and I haven't.

It took me a year and a half after that before I caught on to the fact that he is a P. I saw an article in the newspaper about psychopaths and the dime fell. Thank goodness! It made a huge difference to know that I wasn't insane - that all those crazy feelings I had been having had a reason and the reason was the P. He made me into mush. Into a simpering fool, who for four years did not have the guts to say Booh.

Good riddance to bad rubbish!

There's light at the end of the tunnel and now I can see it very clearly and I can laugh and smile and do my day in a loving manner. It's taken me a long time. It would have taken longer had I not found this place.


Posted by: sylvie25

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 08/23/04 08:12 AM

Hi Nan,

Yes, it's good to talk about experiences with others who can relate. One thing I'm curious about though is, were these boards more active before? I just get the impression from reading some of the older posts that there was more activity then.

I read the account of your lightbulb moment - glad you got out safely. They hate resistance and the loss of control that implies. Thank goodness for media accounts about Ps for the awareness that they spread.

I too found a great deal of satisfaction at breaking off my relationship. We did get back together for a few months once after that - P was extremely persistent and I guess I allowed myself to think that maybe the time apart had somehow changed him for the better. It's difficult to get your mind around the fact that someone you fell in love with was a P! I don't regret getting back together for a short time because it gave me the opportunity to see him at his absolute unvarnished worst. Rather than being better, he was angry and resentful about being dumped (actually about me asserting myself)and way more passive aggressive. I had also started a new job and career in the interim months, that I absolutely loved and that required me to travel a fair amount. Naturally he hated the independence and freedom that gave me. "My baby is spreading her wings!" Ugh! Anyhow, it gave me the opportunity to dump him twice so that was worth it. No misgivings the second time around, none!


Posted by: Nan

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 08/23/04 09:37 AM

Hiya Sylvie,

Posters come and go. Right now, there are many people who read but who do not post. Sometimes there is a lot of activity and other times it's slow like molasses and it's anybody's guess what the determining factor is. A few people are away on summer holiday and besides, the summer is not known for being a busy time in most forums.

I think that this type of forum is one where there is a limit to how involved different poster are willing and able to be. It takes time to 'lick your wounds' so to speak and many people both need and want time away from all this pain and suffering. It's healthy to be able to let go of the P issues and get on with life and my guess is that that is what happens to many former members.

As well, some people are just not comfortable with the written word and prefer to stay on the sidelines and just read posts. They too, get something out of the forum. Not everyone can express themselves in writing.

I think what's important is that we all learn something from each other. I have learned a great deal here and each poster, who is willing to communicate her/his story contribute something valuable for someone else.

This 'someone' is a person that we never meet because they do not post. I am convinced that every person posting helps someone else.

I just got home and I haven't had the time to carefully read all your posts, but I get a feeling or sense that you have stopped working altogether. If so, how is that affecting you? You sound like a woman with a strong work ethic and not working (if that's the case) would likely affect you negatively.

Take care,


Posted by: sylvie25

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 08/24/04 05:55 PM

Hi Nan,
<br>I thought it might have something to do with summer. Yes, this is all heavy stuff and it can be wearing. It's just an observation that it seemed slower than it appeared previously, from earlier posts. I keep forgetting that there are probably people just lurking. I too am still not entirely comfortable with posting these kinds of things on the internet but to some extent, I'm past caring. If it helps someone in the process then all the better.
<br>About working, I do not work on the corporate side anymore. My profession is fairly specialized and jobs are scarce during the best of times. During the recession they all but disappeared. I have been developing a home-based business (same line of work) but it's a tall order, considering where my confidence is right now. Ironically, I was considered very mentally tough at work.
<br>You're right that I have a strong work ethic. It's interesting that you were able to conclude that through a few posts whereas some relatives who should know that seem to think otherwise. I'm learning to put them on "ignore". That's advice I would give anyone in these situations, cut the negative people out of your life pronto. It's not worth the mental energy and distraction of dealing with them.
<br>I think the loss of my career has been tough, sometimes excruciating, because everything flows from one's livelihood. So you're right, it does affect me negatively. I was fortunate enough to have gotten into a profession that I absolutely love and that put me in touch with some outstanding people. I also relished it because it felt like a major victory after the first Psychopath. I've always believed I would get back into it, but lately I'm thinking that it may be unrealistic at least for now, because I'm in worse shape psychologically than I conceded before this. The mind is a funny thing.
I've seen your other post. Thanks for that.
<br>I will respond to you and Mati later.
Posted by: freedom

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 08/28/04 12:20 AM

Hi to all of us here

i haven't wrote in a while
i have been busy trying to get myself into no contact mode
after being in a no contact mode for awhile and messing it up

i finally am doing better but only by a miracle from God
i have been asking God to help me to not see him anymore
because i went back at seeing him only rarely but it was still too much.
I was watching a tv christian show a few weeks ago
i prayed feeling a bit sarcasstic because my heart was still so attached to him and somehow after praying the feeling of wanting to be with him is gone he tried to talk to me in public and was trying to make a scene to scare me so i would change my mind and go with him but i was strong and did not go with him and he left.
He called a few time at 1.30 in the morning but i never answer the phone. The thing i don't understand if he really wants to talk to me why doesn't he call in the day time because i told him at 1.30am in the morning or 5am i am asleep.
I finally am staying really away from him.
He was looking bad everytime i would visit him and after our visit he would clean up and look great and would ask me to drop him around the corner and i got tired of him doing this to me from a guy who love me so much and wanted to marry me
so anyway the joke is over.

I have been reading a lot and other psychopath site to drill in my mind what i am up against and finally it is sinking in by the grace of God i have a strenght that is not of me.

Talking about him right now i still have feeling for him but i am fed up with his attitude toward me
he just wants me for money
i wrote this upper message a few days ago
last night i went to bed really early i get a phone call about 9pm i did not look who called i did not have my glasses on and it was him i did not hang up he wanted to see me, i tell him i am broke because every single time we are together since oct. 1998 i met him it has been "money give me" i tell him if he really loves me i would not have to give him money and he says flat out that he is rich and he is not asking me for money he is acting poor to see who are his real friend Huh! and if i marry him i will see how rich he is, i tell him if i marry you, you will say that i am marrying you for your money so anyway i broke the no contact but i feel strongly that i will not see him and answer his call when i see who it is like i have been doing so good the last few weeks.

When i am not with him my life is so much better
i have a lot of friends but when i am with him people don't want to be around me they are afraid of him he has punched and provoked people that were just talking to me.
So i have plenty light bulbs to see that he is not for real.

It was his birthday august 25 he leaves a message on my phone using someone else's phone (he does not have one) which is long distance and saying that i should have call someone to tell the person to go to him and tell him Happy Birthday now i would not know who to call to do such a thing
because he always tells me do not call back on the whoever's phone he is using to call me.
Just to show you how he thinks which is an impossible situation.

thank you for been here

Posted by: Dianne E.

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 08/29/04 10:28 AM

Hi freedom, you are a very brave strong woman for resisting this "creature". Baby steps and it looks like you are taking a big leap by your "no contact" mode. I wish you the best and we are always here for you.

Posted by: Mati

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 08/29/04 10:49 AM

Hi freedom

I too give thanks to God for my ability to cope at present. I know that when we trust Him that we will overcome our difficulties. It is a process I think, getting stronger and stronger and there are always times in the beginning when we slip up. But we learn through it and it makes us stronger still. God bless
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 08/29/04 02:05 PM


I also totally relate to you at the moment.

I'm worried about you because P is seriously messing around with your head. How much you love someone depends on you being financially responsible, being physically and mentally healthy and respecting yourself. How can you do that if someone else is milking you of money to prove how much you love him?

That is an example of P logic. Please leave this P alone and go away and love someone who appreciates your love for what it is, without financial requirements.

Paying someone to value you love is crazy Freedom, please think about it, this P is really making you sound crazy.

My heart goes out to you.

My P has tried to contact me in the last week and he will be here soon... I am trying to steal myself to not give into him and speak or see him.

Keep strong Freedom.

Posted by: tiasa1234

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 06/15/05 11:02 AM

My "lightbulb moment" was basically when my feet started touching the ground again! I honestly felt like I was "floating" for almost a month --before that little "red flags" started going up and I totally ignored them! I was so captivated I didn't care about anything else! I even remember saying to him (when he was complimenting me for the 100th time!) "Even if these are all lies, I feel so awesome - I don't even CARE!" (Of course they were, and I DO CARE - but at the time I was "high" on his FAKE adoration). Yuck. Anyway, I remember one morning when he was prying for information about my past "loves" and when I told him things he got all jealous and angry! I told him "That was LONG before I knew you - 20 years ago!" and he still kept making nasty comments and being like a two year old brat and asking me "Is there anything you want to tell me? )! I felt like I was being violated and bothered. It was then I realized he wasn't playing with a "full deck". There were the other times (after I knew him only a week) and he was meeting me after work but said he wouldn't be able to come until 6 because he was giving his "friend" a ride - I get out of work at 5, so to "kill time" I went to the bathroom, to my car and put makeup on, etc...) I went outside my office to meet him and he was FURIOUS! He said "I can't stay- I have to go!" I was like "WHAT'S WRONG?" He FINALLY after much coaxing and trying to calm him down admitted he was able to get to my workplace earlier than 6 and he came into my office and I WASN'T THERE! (GOD FORBID!) He said "I figured you met someone else and were having a fling with him or something!" I was shocked and confused and just said "ARE you KIDDING ME?" I was just "killing time" and wandering around! It took quite some time before he calmed down and he kept saying how it "wasn't him" to act like that - (but there were MANY other blow-ups and "episodes" that proved THAT WRONG!). BUT, the FINAL STRAW was when I told him I was considering living with my mom for a while until I decided what to do (leave my marriage, kids and HOME - yes I was temporarly "INSANE!!!"?!) and he said "Well, my "room mate" says if I have a girlfriend I should live with HER!" I said "what are you implying, that you move in with ME at my MOM'S?" He was like "Yes, then we could really be together!" WHAT?!?!?! That was when I (FINALLY) realized I was dealing with a lying, manipulative, loser psychopathic JERK! Still, it took almost another month before I was rid of him! (or am I?) I'd love to hear more of these - I hope more "targets" post theirs. Thanks and STAY STRONG EVERYONE!!!
Posted by: jjinatl

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 07/12/05 08:07 PM

My lightbulb moment occurred about 2 years ago - yes I said 2 years! When I heard the word sociopath for the 1st time I had no idea what they were speaking of but after looking it up I began to fall apart. It was at that second that I realized the man I had been involved with for the past year definitely had all the traits of a sociopathic personality. I believe at that time I must have gone into shock. Eventually I came to terms with what had just transpired - then stupidly became completely engulfed in this person all over again for another 2 years. I finally moved on which is where I am today. The reason for me being here.
Posted by: Dianne E.

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 07/13/05 09:48 AM

Hi jjinatl, welcome to the forum. Interesting that the word sociopath turned on the lights for you. When you are comfortable perhaps you can tell us more of your story. Did you think you would be able to "fix him" once you discovered what you were dealing with?

Posted by: jjinatl

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 07/13/05 07:37 PM

Hi Dianne - thank you for the welcome to the group! Actually, when I realized what I was dealing with I bottomed out & I think went into shock because I loved him and honestly couldn't deal with the reality of the situation. No, I don't think I thought I'd be able to "fix" him at that moment - that was the 1st time I quit seeing him. Unfortunately, that period didn't last for long and before I knew it I was right back in the thick of it all. The "story" is so....long - but I will write it over the next few days - maybe it will be good therapy? I'll be horrified probably when I see it in black and white. Thanks again for the reply!
Posted by: shattered4good

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 07/16/05 11:20 AM

I think I had "string" of lightbulb moments.

First about 5 years ago I came across the book HOW TO LIVE WITH A PASSIVE AGGRESSIVE MAN. My marriage had almost totally unraveled by then, I was quite ill with infant children to care for (pretty much alone) and I just couldn't get a handle on my Nhusband. I read that book in 2 sittings, in the laundromat, crying. I got online and did some searching and that lead me to THE VERBALLY ABUSIVE RELATIONSHIP. In the midst of that, P came back into my life after 27 years (see my story) and during that time my therapist mentioned Narcissism in relation to my estranged Nhusband. We had a sexless marriage in the last few years, and though he blamed me - his behavior in the "intimacy" arena was so odd I needed answers.

P had encouraged me to start my abuse site! And when I read some online stuff about narcissism, I shared it with P. And P told me one day, right out "MY GOD! I am a Somatic Narcissist!!!" I laughed and told him no way. DUH!! He even told me he was more convinced he needed serious help, I gave him some names of therapists - but apparently he did nothing about it at the time. He didn't tell me he was seeing a psychopharmacologist - he positioned it as real therapy. HA HA. He even cried on the phone to me a couple times about how "sick" he was.

I had a lot of red flags but I think THAT was the tap on the shoulder! After that, he started telling me every time he and his wife had relations (TOO MUCH INFORMATION) and then after he started up with my California friend, he was very nasty to me a couple times and accused me of "sexually taunting him" HUH????? Projection.

After it all blew up and I was working on my site I read so much on narcissism - that lead me to Psychopathy. Sometimes I really wonder if he IS P or not but he certainly fits the majority of Hare's criteria.
Posted by: stunnedhun23

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 07/18/05 07:41 AM

Hi Di,

Very good question. I had many lightbulb moments, but their power supply was weak, and his manipulations obliterated their light. I guess it took a brick being thrown at me to really "get it"

The real moment of truth that will haunt me to the day I die, occurred many months after trying to convince him to get help, due to his own prior admissions that he was abusive, manipulative and selfish.

3 days after the assault from him which landed me in jail (overnight) on false charges, while I suffered head injury and miscarriage, the P calls me. Trying to explain that he "had to have me arrested somehow, to get him order of protection from me, so that he could be in control of the boundaries of our relationship." He had zero remorse and felt completely justified in what he had done to me and our baby, we were just pawns in his game to be used at his discretion. He had no feelings what so ever in his soul, other than to control and dispute the damage HE had done. With complete LIES to the authorities.

It was a brick, not a lightbulb... one that sent me into the abyss of self hate, for having ever believed a word he had ever told me. I was ashamed for all the lies, manipulations and turpitude he had destroyed my entire life with. I withdrew and knew no way to end the heartache & pain than to releave the world of such a pathetic woman. And I descended into a hell on earth that I did not know existed. I could not believe I had spent so much of myself on such a monster.

My real lightbulb was when I found this site, and realized it was not me, that I never had a chance. I thank God every day for all of you, your courage to post with such honesty, and your ability to offer support while you all endure nightmare p's of your own.

This site was my lightbulb that has stayed bright & will make me free from P's forever more.


Posted by: tiasa1234

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 07/18/05 08:51 AM

Dear StunnedHun23: I LOVED reading this post! I totally agree with you - about this site being a lightbulb! You sound great and I hope things are going better for you. You are right about all the people who post here. They (we) have been to hell and are now back to earth and working on getting to heaven by doing the next right thing and staying P-free! There is no way we can have peace as long as the P's are in our lives. Mine hasn't quite given up yet, but I will not allow him to weasle his way into my life EVER AGAIN! There is nothing he can do or say to make me change my mind. I don't even pity him - I'm just repulsed by him. There is no room in my life for pathological liars, cheaters and manipulators. Anyway, good to hear from you. Keep posting! Love, Tiasa XOXOXOXO
Posted by: independentnow

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 07/21/05 06:20 PM

Many lightbulbs went off for me all those years ago during my marriage to my 'P', but i like hon's description -- they were weak.

Light one: one year into our relationship he forced (I wasn't too hard to make compliant then) me to call some people he had scammed and lie to them to delay legal action. I remember how I felt, dirty, shamed and sick. I was pregnant and far from home and felt trapped.

Light two: when moving to another town he left me with a friend of his who I didn't know, to see an old girlfriend who had a family heirloom of his to pick-up. He admitted she was an old flame, but said he had no feelings for her. He left me in this strange house in a strange town with no way to leave, for eight hours with no explanation when he returned, just a wide smile like he had just gone out to get a box of donuts ten minutes ago. The feelings of entrapment (that was the same year and pregnancy as above) made me physically ill for the rest of the trip to our destination.

light three: when he told me once "I think I could kill someone and not feel anything, nothing at all." That was when we were first going out. He was always reading Soldier of Fortune mags until I told him I thought they were stupid and for geeks. God, what a loser!

Light four: when one of his girlfriends told me he was telling everyone that I liked living in a house with no running water or electricity and that I didn't want him to get a job. The only thing I couldn't believe more was that this woman twice my age believed him!

Light Five and I guess one the most frustrating and constant: He had shallow effect because he felt nothing inside, nothing mattered to him but scheming and lying. I finally realized that is why he could care less about things that "normal" people are concerned about. it was almost as if he was dead inside and seducing women, lying, stealing and conning were the only ways he felt alive. I learned the thrill and triumph he felt when he felt he had something over on someone.

I learned to use his sick behavior to my advantage. Of course he wasn't violent and my heart goes out to women who have to deal with violence as well. I had a violent father so I always had a radar out to avoid hyper aggressive men. But cons are another story.

I still can find myself drawn to them.

Its a charge almost, like being able to actually step up and stroke the lion in its cage without waking his waking up and gobbling you up right there.
Posted by: heather

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 08/07/05 11:25 AM

My light bulb moment: I was listening to talk radio, I heard a preview for an interview with an author [I believe Martha Stout] about psychopaths. I thought that it sounded interesting so I listened. She was listing characteristics and I just knew.... I went immediately and checked the internet for more info. This happened only about 1 month ago.

I am married to a P for 8 years. There was always problems in the marriage and during fights I even called him "psycho" on many occasions.

I had no idea what a psychopath really was. I always assumed psychopaths were really "crazy".
Posted by: stunnedhun23

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 08/07/05 11:49 AM

Hi Heather,

Welcome to the forum!!! It is so shocking when you first realize there is a definition for what you are experiencing. And even more shocking to learn that there is no therapy or cure.

I saw your post asking about premature babies, and it reminds me of my exploring the effects of religon (or should I say a cult) on my P. I still spend time trying to figure out how and why he is that way, but the last lightbulb for me released my guilt at wanting him OUT of my life for good. Yes, I felt guilty giving up on him, how sad is that? I am a nurturer and a fixer, and believed prior to the now BRIGHT LIGHT that I could help him and that HE was the victim. What a twisted reality. It was and sometimes still is very difficult for me to imagine existing without a conscience.

Are you still married to your P? If so are you safe? Do you have children? Sorry for so many questions, but many here have been in the same situation, and the safety of you & your family is priority number one. We all are here to support you through this, whatever your specific path may be.

I hope you are strong & well and that validating your experience helps heal the wounds.

Sending you welcoming hugs ~

Posted by: heather

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 08/08/05 09:31 AM

I have a hard time expressing myself in words, so please bear with me if I don't make sense at times.

Yes I am still married and I do have 6 young children. I live here with him but I don't have the emotional attachment, like I used too. I gave up on him and the marriage or any love last October.

Now I know he is a P it explains so much. I haven't told him what I know. It makes it easier to deal with. He said 2 things to me in the last 2 days that I thought were the strangest things. He first said "You are so blond and beautiful, you are my target." He said it like a compliment, very sweetly. I didn't reply but I made a mental note. Target of what, is what I want to know? I never would have noticed anything strange before. Then he said last night, "Did you ever think that when you met me you let a vampire into your life?" Didn't say anything, just made a mental note.

I wonder if I leave him if I will have to deal with him every weekend because of the kids. Somedays I pray that he would just die so I don't have to deal with him terrorizing me for the rest of my life. He is like a mental terrorist.

I feel more safe being here knowing where he is. He is not really violent. Although he says things like "If I want to beat you up I could." About 2 weeks ago he was punching the air beside me without touching me. He likes to fist fight men that cross him.

I am 29 and he is 32 now.

Another thing, he is a workaholic so he is usually gone most of the week. He also works night shift so during the weekends he stays up all night and sleeps until 3 in the afternoon. I avoid him as much as possible.

Thanks for the welcome,
Posted by: tiasa1234

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 08/08/05 10:49 AM

Hi Heather, I just wanted to welcome you and thank you for posting. I think you have a wonderful way with words- you actually expressed yourself very well! I have been sitting here with my mouth hanging open with what your "P" husband said to you "You are so blond and beautiful, you are my target." - I mean he actually TOLD you that! and "Did you ever think when you met me you let a vampire into your life?" There is actually a book about these creeps out there called "Emotional Vampires" by Albert Bernstein:

"Bernstein provides a field guide to the various types of Emotional Vampires and advises readers how to protect themselves from being victims of these predatory personalities."­­Boston Globe

From bestselling author Albert J. Bernstein

The author of Dinosaur Brains offers protection from people who seek to destroy the emotional and psychological well-being of others. Like the fabled demons, these vampires:

Think their needs are more important than yours
Believe "the rules" apply only to other people
Use their tempers in the same way terrorists use bombs
Emotional Vampires tells readers how to spot a "vampire" in their lives, which defense strategies to employ to prevent one from striking, and what to do if and when they find themselves under attack.

From the Back Cover

"If I'd had a copy of this book when I started therapy, I might have saved myself a lot of time and money. Bernstein provides a field guide to the various types of Emotional Vampires and advises readers how to protect themselves from being victims of these predatory personalities."­­Diane White, The Boston Globe

Emotional Vampires: They're out there . . . masquerading as ordinary people. They may lurk in your office, your family, your circle of friends; perhaps they even share your bed. Chances are, you know all too many of them. Bright, talented, and charismatic, they win your trust, your confidence, and your affection­­then drain you of your emotional energy. But take heart as you walk through the darkness, it doesn't have to be that way­­the more you know about vampires, the less power they have over you.

Here Dr. Albert J. Bernstein, vampire-slayer and author of the best-selling Dinosaur Brains and Neanderthals at Work, reveals the secrets that will protect you once and for all. Detailing a whole range of personality types and human responses, Bernstein shows you how to spot the "vampires" in your life: self-serving Narcissists, hedonistic Antisocials, exhausting Paranoids, or over-the-top Histrionic drama queens. And, with valuable advice, psychological perspective, and much-needed humor, he gives you a range of defense strategies that are guaranteed to keep the blood-sucking creatures of darkness from draining you dry.

By the end of Emotional Vampires, you'll be armed with superior knowledge, a treasure chest of vampire-slaying tools, and all the confidence you need to take on the most draining people in your life and win without shedding the first drop of blood.

I've been wanting to read it. It's true P's are very much like vampires - they suck everything possible out of their "targets"... (money (and any valuable possesions), love, sex, confidence, self respect, health, dignity, pride, faith, etc...) You are VERY smart not letting him know what YOU know! It could definitely backfire - so be very careful.

I was lucky to "escape" "my" P before things got too involved, but I am positive that it would've led to disaster if I continued with him. Just those 2 things your husband said reminded me so much of the things the creep I knew would come out with! For instance, he has said "You're the most beautiful blue-eyed blond I ever knew" I said "I bet you've said that to many women" and he said "Yeah, but so far, you're my favorite" (Was that supposed to make me feel "SPECIAL"!?) There were many more things that proved he wasn't thinking like a "normal" man. I am very glad to hear he hasn't been violent, but PLEASE be careful, because P's are capable of anything. I'm not trying to scare you - I just want you to be AWARE - and he sounds like he likes to use his fists. "Mine" was the same way... he LOVED pro-wrestler's (which I absolutely HATE!) and he often bragged about what a great fighter he was, how strong his arms are, and often said "I outta spank you" or "slit your throat!" I used to laugh it off, never thinking he could possibly be serious! But, who knows? Scary.

I understand your wishing he would "just die"... it would be easier to "deal" with him, wouldn't it? But, there is help out there if you need it. How long have you been married, and when did it occur to you that he was a P?

Anyway, we are all here for you and will help answer any questions we can and support you through this. Please keep posting. Stay strong.

Love, Tiasa
Posted by: heather

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 08/10/05 04:48 PM

I have been married 8 years and I just realized that he was a P recently. I knew that he always had problems, especially relating to his mother still and he won't let go of that relationship.

He has probably always given me the hints and clues about who he is but I never picked up on any of it.

I don't feel like I have an addiction to him. I realize that he is messed up and not me. I don't feel any love for him. But I still feel trapped by the humiliation.

He called today and said he won't be home until tomorrow because of work. I am glad I don't have to see him.

I told him that I didn't love him the first time, I was scared to death of his reaction. [This was about 6 months before I knew he was a P] He didn't do or say much. It was like I finally had the freedom.

I get the impression he wants to see how long it takes before I take the next step. Like it is a game for him, a human experiment, watching me suffer and timing my reaction.

I did have something very strange happen to me the other day, we were talking. He said I should be happy that I have a man that would give me so many children. I had a miscarriage with another man about 6 months before I met him 10 years ago. [I believe now that the other man was a P too, I saw him for a few days after that, then he just dissappeared out of my life.] But anyways, my current P brought up the micarriage as a means to hurt me and I had absolutely no reaction. That gut wrenching pain that he likes to inflict did not happen. It was the strangest thing for me. I cannot describe what a profound moment it was for me.

I have added the book Emotional Vampires to my wish list.
Posted by: tiasa1234

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 08/11/05 06:25 PM

Hi Heather, Thanks so much for posting. I'm glad you are standing your ground with your P. I'm sure it's very difficult since he is the father of your children (and still your husband). Do you think he is faithful to you (P's are known to have "others")?

Shame on him for trying to hurt you by bringing up your miscarraige... it's like he's patting himself on the back for "giving you children" as if that fetus was "defective" because it wasn't HIS! (Typical Narcissist!) How are the children with their dad? Are they close? Is he a "good father"?

I'm sorry for asking so many questions - just curious and trying to tell how difficult it might be to "break free".

It sounds as if you have a good, strong, wise head on your shoulders. Please check back with us - there is AWESOME advice given here by those who have "walked in your shoes".

Love, Tiasa
Posted by: heather

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 08/19/05 04:34 PM

I believe he is faithful because he loves to brag to me about the women in his past. He also tells me about all the women that are attracted to him at work and almost anywhere he goes. He has this weird thing about "telling the truth" about absolutely everything, he cannot keep his mouth shut about any secret. But on the other hand he has also told me he would say anything at all to save himself from the police.

He is a workaholic so he is only with the kids no more than a couple hours a day. He treats them like slaves, doing almost everything for him until he leaves again. He tells them he loves them and kisses and hugs them. The oldest kids are 8 and the rest are younger. After he leaves they say things like "Dad is so lazy, he never does anything for himself." He doesn't do much punishing of the kids, he wants me to do it, I think so he can look like the nice parent. He does seem to get mad about the stupidest things too, like spilled milk, I am always telling him to chill out.

I have no idea how to break free, it seems impossible with all the children because I am sure the courts would grant him visitation of some kind. Even if I leave I will still be stuck with him.
Posted by: tiasa1234

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 08/20/05 04:33 AM

Hi Heather, So nice to hear from you! I've been thinking about you, and hoped you'd post again! I understand exactly what you are saying about breaking free. It is SO HARD when children are involved, but it is possible. However, I am STILL with my husband (he's not the psychopath I was involved with, but he has his own "issues"! and our marraige isn't great) even though I realized our marraige was "rocky" for the past 12 years. We tried separating, but it was rough on ALL of us, and the kids love us equally and it wouldn't be fair to split for our own selfish reasons. I don't believe in "staying for the sake of the children" as a "rule" but if life would be WORSE for everyone involved by splitting up, then it makes sense. None of these decisions are easy!

In a way, you're lucky your husband is a "work-a-holic"... the P I was involved with hardly EVER worked - he is a typical "gigolo, parasitic" user/loser that comes across as the best thing since sliced bread! (He's a REAL charmer!) But, not only is your husband GONE a lot of the time (which, under the circumstances is probably better, even though it is hard to do everything yourself!) but he also contributes money (MANY P's do NOT... they just TAKE, TAKE, TAKE!!!)

I could so relate to your P "bragging about women in his past" and "telling me about all the women that are attracted to him everywhere he goes"... "mine" did the SAME THING... and often he would "apologize" (without true feeling) about "making me jealous" but he thought it would make me "love him more!" (WEIRD, or WHAT!?!?!?!)

Anyway, my dear, I know it's a difficult situation for you. At least your kids see him for what he is "lazy and never does anything for himself!"... typical, typical, typical!!! I'm sure if you end up going for a divorce, the fact that the kids are with YOU most of the time (plus the fact you're the mother!) works totally in your favor of full custody. As far as visitation, you don't have to actually face him if you don't want to... do you have a friend or relative that could bring the kids to him? (Or be there when he picks them up?)

I'm not suggesting you should leave him, as you know, that's totally a decision you need to make for everyone involved. Just putting in my thoughts for whatever they're worth!

Please keep posting... we're here to help.

Sincerely, Tiasa
Posted by: heather

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 08/26/05 04:05 PM

Thank you for responding, you are so intuitive.

I am okay, not P free, but okay. The kids are starting school in less than 2 weeks and I am busy getting things ready for them. I am a stay at home mom with only 1 child not in school this year.

My husband always tells me how good looking he is, he doesn't seem that good looking to me. Seriously, I don't get this.

I feel like I am surrounded by P's or borderline P's. My husband tells me about his friends and family and alot of them fit the profile. Not everyone in his family but it seems "all" of his close friends are.

I started my own home business in 1999 and he just about lost it because he has such a fear that I will get rich and leave him. He just spends any extra money we have on useless "stuff". He gets really paranoid when I go shopping by myself because I might meet someone... Everything I do on my own is a threat of me leaving, in his mind. I just tell him to stuff it. I am not very nice to him but he seems to be like a parasite that depends on me to survive. He is also very jealous of my education and gets very hostile when anybody talks about it.

He also mentioned something about me "embarassing him" by getting a divorce. Like a threat, I better not embarass him or else... I always ask him "Or what?" in a really rude voice. He never has an answer.

Just me rambling, have a great P FREE day/night/weekend!
Posted by: lobo

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 08/28/05 05:44 AM

I do not know if I have a Lightbulb moment? My councellor informed me of her beliefs only 2 weeks ago. The more I read the more confused I get. Can Psychopaths be women?
I have read alot about men but not women. I called my wife a P about 4 months ago after she vented pure anger at me for what felt like forever. I said your acting like a p and she has never forgiven me for it and she keeps bringing it up all the time. I still can't tell her what my councellor has said and she has advised me to seek advice from other victims but I'm a man. Are men victims?
Posted by: WhiteKnight

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 08/31/05 01:53 PM

I have an N and a P in my life right now.

my "light-bulb" moment came first with N, then as I
researched the problem, I nearly fell off my chair
when it dawned on me that P maxed out on the
Hare check-list of P traits.

with N, I was struck
by the awesome scale of the LYING. factual lies having
minimal emotional content, and emotional lying.

whenever he wanted something from me, he would feign friendship, collegiality, whatever, I would help him, out, thinking -- hey!! we're FINALLY making some progress here.

then I would cap off the interaction with a little social
chit-chat, and he would have this out-pouring of Hatred
that bowled me over.

where had I heard of people who were such AMAZING liars?

I _had_ heard of such fantastic liars
before, and was soon reading Hare, Clecky, and anything
else I could get my hands on.

One day I was in a meeting with N, while his sponsor (PM) was on holiday, and out of cell contact. N reacted with
such fear, at being left alone with me that I decided
that he couldn't be a P, and my research turned down
the N path, with Sam Valkin, and others.

my lightbulb moment with P came when an aquaintance
remarked "Oh, well P really likes V" and I was
thunderstruck that I had NEVER seen P give V ANY form
of recognition, or affection in public WHATSOEVER.

more research revealed that this is how hard-core swingers
and pimps control multiple women. no public recognition,
therefor other women can't tell he's "taken".

P was actually able to "date" several women on the
project under V's nose, because while P and V were
together constantly, his public behaviour of no
recognition, no affection led these other women to
conclude P and V weren't romantically linked.

Posted by: Dianne E.

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 12/14/05 11:35 AM

08/31/05 11:34 AM

Hopefull reminded me of my lightbulb moment. My husband decided to be an Episcopal preist despite the fact that it wasn't good timing for the family-two kids in college and a house to sell. When the kids found out it became quite an issue, but money and tuition never came up. All four kids came to me separately and said,"But Mom, Dad's not even nice to me, he can't be a preist!" I thought it was just me! It turned out to be a pattern of isolation going on.

He would say nasty things to them in private and create conflicts within the family so that one person wouldn't talk to another person, or think another person liked them because he had bad-mouthed a family member in one way or another. But the preist process continued. When his psychological evaluation came back he left it on the kitchen counter so we took a peek.........He said his parents were dead(vey much alive in New Jersey), that he had passed the bar(he has an engineering degree), that his
undergrad was prelaw(math), and that his brother lived in California(Boston). A guy like this should not be influencing people.

I started fighting against the preisthood and low and behold, he became a dirty fighter, kicking me out of the house, influencing the kids against me, blocking doorways so I couldn't get through, shaking his fists at me. I wound up in therapy, unable to lift my head, staring at the ground session after session. After hearing a few more stories my therapist said my husband was a sociopath........to tell you the truth, I have been warned before so that was my lightbulb moment. He never made seminary, by the way, he was cutting down a tree and the last limb fell on him. In the hospital for a week....it gave me a chance to notify the seminary of who they were really getting.
Posted by: Violet

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 07/26/10 09:10 AM

My Lightbulb moment:

1. When I read the book "The Wizard of Oz and Other Narcissist..." I realized immediately when I began reading it that he is a narcissist.

2. When I read the book "The psychopath Next Door". I realized immediately when I began reading it that he is a Psychopath.

Both books offered signs to look for, he is so bad that he has every trait, every sign to look for that is listed in both books. I just couldn't deny it, even if I wanted to.

I always knew he was not a good person. I always knew he was a drunk, a drug user, a liar, a cheater, a criminal, and a thug. It was at this point that I was officially able to label the lunatic.
Posted by: swansonflora

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 08/15/10 11:01 AM

I had mine about 2 mos ago I had watched a show on tv an something ccicked an I started researching everything I could fine.It scared me but let me know I am not crazy an et. et. I have been married 21 years an loved my husband very much but he started on our wedding breaking me down an sucking the life out of me .I fought an stood my ground but my health has suffered an I have become a recluse.All my friends see me trough his eyes an he is so wonderful an kind.I almost died once I could not take his lack of empathy an love.At first he said all the right things but I noticed a lack of interest in my children an a delight in watching them bend to his control.He would get a twisted smile onhis face when he pushed me to far an I eould cry and be angry .He likes control .He buys groceris .holds money an only gives me 20 or 5 if I could work now it would be betterbut I have been disabled for 12 yrs.My value in his eyes is gone except that by being married he has more acceptable friends to do things with an he gets there pity for having a crazy wife.I am now 61 an will draw a check in a few mos an I see his wheels turning.I Paid in so I would have a home but If I go I give up my home an my values.I see he could be good but he does not know how to love or know feelings except for his wants needs.I pity him now .I have to let go of the bitterness an anger but it is hard.I feel good about this site .I have noone yjat can understand or help me .
Posted by: clearblue

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 10/02/10 05:06 PM

Hi Dianne,
When I tried to use my bank card it was suspended. I found out my own husband had emptied my/our account a few days before.
He had a court date and paid his collections account with my savings. He had me put him on my account just prior to his court date so he could have gas money,buy groceries(his claim). He did not feel remorse. He did not concern himself with the financial burden that followed. He did not apologize. He got agitated with my questions. He justified himself and his actions. He said "I got tired of them bugging me. You should have gave them your phone number". The debt was his,not our shared debt. It was thousands of dollars. It was devastating to me,my family. He shrugged it off.
Posted by: clearblue

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 10/08/10 04:05 PM

Psychopath was fighting me for custody of our children. Actually wanted the right to tell them I was dead.
Said I could NEVER be in there life again if I left him.
Met his older kids. Found out Psychopath took them young,(kidnapped) did tell them their mom was dead. Major trauma for them. Psychopath says if you break with me...your are treating your kids like you are dead.
Was a lie that caused so much emotional damage to them.
They were reunited with their very alive mom.

I think I just answered a motivator persona.
I must have been in his imposed grandma,mold-drama when we split up.
She only left him forever because she did die.
Posted by: LZ28

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 10/14/10 11:40 PM

For the last four years he faked having cancer. He said he couldn´t cover his rent and other bills because his roommate scammed him. I ended up giving him money to pay certain expenses. I felt so bad that someone experiencing "cancer" had to go through the abuse of others. The light bulb moment should have been how secretive he was about having this disease. Poor thing was always too tired to do anything with me or for me. He made me feel like the worst thing on the planet if I ever thought about myself. I couldn´t go out. I stopped seeing my friends. My life revolved around trying to help him through this illness while being kept at arm´s length. Turns out, he was never sick. When he was getting way too verbally abusive, I told him I needed some time to heal myself in order to be there for him since things were out of hand in the relationship. He sent me pictures pointing a gun to himself, telling me he´d kill himself if I left him. Two weeks later, pictures were up of him and a mutual acquaintance in Miami, partying like they were teenagers and making out. All this time he was cheating on me and used the money I gave him for "his doctor appointments and rent" on her. After 10 years of dealing with all his lies, cheating, and other abuses, I was grateful this happened. Now he is out of my life for good and I can start my healing process.
Posted by: clearblue

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 10/15/10 07:52 PM

Hi LZ28,
Wow,you have such a great attitude after such bad experiences.
That is such abusive Psychopath behaviors.
I really feel for you and what you have been through.
Those head games are cruel.
Then you find out he was fine all along.
Suicide threats,photos make it all worse.
I am so glad to hear you are beyond him.
Good for you!
Posted by: jwils871

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 11/03/10 12:17 PM

I realized it when the marriage counsellor we had - who was trying to help him transition out of our relationship, said I am glad you are getting out, there is something about him. I truly believe he is a psychopath, but I would need allot more time with him to determine that for sure, and there is no way he is going to let me have it or let me in. All I know is you do NEED to get out. This guy would make a great case study for someone. that was 8 years ago now- hard to believe it.
and The trigger that got me to leave - was not his stealing money (oh sorry borrowing with no intention of ever paying it back because they have it to give or everything has been handed to them) from me and everyone we knew.. it was when my 7 year old came out to the garage with me and I started cleaning up crushed popcans, and he got upset with me and told me that I couldn't throw those out because daddy used those to smoke with and proceededto explain in detail how daddy used these cans. YUP he was smoking drugs with my 7 year old around and that was IT.
Posted by: BeenHad

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 11/08/10 03:40 PM

I had been trying to break up with my Psychopath for a year-he kept sucking me back in with the empty promises and saying just the right things I was dying to hear.
Ive been in therapy trying gain the confidence and strength to get rid of him when I began writing down all the things I hated about him and the things he would do to me. After looking at the list I remember thinking that this was a piece of a puzzle so I Googled the terms I had written and got pages and pages referring to psychopathic behavior. It scared me, it saddened me and gave me some strength.
I still cant get away though. Ive been close twice but keep getting sucked right back in because it seems now that negative attention from him is better than no attention at all. He is So good at just the right words and I am in a very unhappy marriage. I cant seem to break free from either one. But I am still in therapy, still praying everyday for God to show me the Truth and give me the Strength to handle it with integrity.
Posted by: clearblue

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 11/08/10 07:07 PM

Hello BeenHad,
Your post has put your strength and courage in words.
It takes a special person to describe a situation in which they are dependent on negative attention.
Everyone has received some form of negative attention.
It is difficult for people to own it.
Good for you, taking the step,owning negative attention.
You are in a bad marriage?
What does that mean to you?
You are seeing a Psychopath.
You have identified the negative.
Have you identified the positive?
What does that mean to you?

Perhaps your self holds some clues.
Did you have a life of divided attention?
If so you are more comfortable with divided situations.
Are you carrying emotional guilt to balance life?
If you could set the emotional guilt down and carry yourself,your ego how would it feel?
Would it feel empty hands or heavier then emotional guilt?
If you own the emotional guilt you must care for it before you put it away.
If it is not yours you must leave it for the lost and found box.
Someone else is looking for it to complete their life journey,story.

Sometimes people have two mates to fulfill the two parent, parent and step parent need/absent role.
If there was an emotional need that did not get filled from the primary parent who had made us feel
their relationships had priority over us then we let our own relationships have priority over us.
We try to mend. People naturally try to mend through emotional responses.
What emotional response is triggered in you through your relationships?
Anger,hate and confusion are all apart of fear.
Fear is at the core of each of us.
Some contain it better then others.
Some find creative outlets.
Others destructive ones.
If we destroy ourselves we confirm our deepest fear.
We have told ourselves "NO".
We stop right there.
Life goes on with us wearing out our brakes.
We have to be pushed,pulled through life because our brakes are locked("No")
No is a powerful word,action and feeling of self power.
Eventually we will "brake" down because we need to flow,roll with life.
Life is fluid.
Life is the essence of change.
Say yes to change,let the brake off in your life.
You have today.
It is your day.
You are special.
You have a special place in life.
Others are looking for you to get there.
You are on your way there now.
Ask yourself,remind yourself of..
How I feel today,now....
How I will feel,ask me then,that day.
How I felt yesterday? Do I really know.Yes/no/maybe.
I have today,this is how I feel today.
Today matters most of all.
Today I feel happy because...
Today I feel good because....
Today I feel lonely because...
Today I feel sad because.....
Today I learned......
Today I experienced......
Today I shared............

Tomorrow..... I will answer that tomorrow.

Take good care,nurture your changes.
They will nurture you.
Posted by: jwils871

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 11/09/10 09:22 AM

Beenhad- I had those moments more than once. It took me 9 years to leave, everytime I would try he would do something "wonderful" and I would get sucked back in- it took a very dark moment for me to realize just how much I needed to get myself and my son away from this man. I needed to get away for my son it was what gave me the strength to get out. I don't have allot of advice for you, I just wanted you to know I have been where you are and I truly know how hard it is to make that transition because they can be so charming when they need to be.
I think you have made a great step in knowing what he is and knowing really can give you all the power you need to get out.

Good luck to you
Posted by: BeenHad

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 11/21/10 10:08 PM

I think it is the Passion between us I cant seem to let go of. I am in a sexless marriage and sex never was good for us. I was a virgin when we got together. Funny, all my friends who had sex in high school regret it and I regret not having it...But the Passion is magnetic and not just sexually...in everything we do together, traveling, hobbies, games, etc. I keep thinking...How can I give that up? And I cant stay away...Yet hes killing me, slowly and its wreaking havoc on me physically, mentally and emotionally...I want to get away, but yet...I dont. How do I survive this?
Posted by: takesanocean

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 06/09/11 05:47 PM

BeenHad, I completely relate to your story.

I very recently realized that the on-and-off, quasi-relationship that I've been in for over two years is likely with a psychopath. I'd in the past realized that he must have some sort of mental disorder, but the word "psychopath" wasn't in my mind (or vocabulary, really) until recently.

I was listening to this episode of This American Life, titled "The Psychopath Test." Many of the checkpoints mentioned as part of Hare's work sounded familiar, but one really stuck out to me and was a definite lightbulb moment. Someone mentioned that one of the checkpoints for psychopathy is a parasitic lifestyle. I'd never heard it phrased this way before, but this is a very strong aspect of this man's personality.

He has been homeless off and on for the last three years - by choice, not out of necessity. In that time, he'll sleep on friends' (I use this term loosely) or acquaintances' couches and basically receive whatever help or support he can from the network of people he's built up - though, oddly, rarely his family. He frequently admits to using others for drugs, sex, food, or to do work for him in whatever capacity necessary - he's always working some scheme to make money. He hasn't had a "real" job in three years, and makes money in unconventional ways (mostly buying things cheaply and reselling them.)

A few months after we started hanging out, I realized that every time he got ahold of me, it would be to do something for him, whether it was to bring over weed for us to smoke, buy weed from him, sell weed to him, bring him food, bring him some random thing, drive him somewhere, etc. I was young and I really liked him (and I could afford it and had nothing better to do) so I'd often give in.

Many times he would assert that he was just using me and the other people in his life for the things that they did for him. I never really believed him - how could he spend so much time with me and (sporadically) do so many nice things for me not care at all? - but now, reading about psychopathy and reading all of your posts, it makes sense. I'll probably post another, longer topic fully detailing the situation later. But to get back to my initial point, hearing the phrase "parasitic lifestyle" was when it all clicked for me.
Posted by: Dianne E.

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 06/11/11 08:18 PM

Hi, welcome to our communinity. Will look forward to the rest of your story.

With information you can make the best decision.

Sounds like you have found out in time to rid yourself of this before it is too late.

Posted by: takesanocean

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 06/17/11 11:06 PM

Thanks! I'm happy to have found a place where people can understand what I've gone through with him ... it's always seemed to go beyond most of my friends' boyfriend problems.
I do feel that I've found out before it's too late ... I am in my early 20s and I realize that I have a lot of life ahead of me. Still, though, I have invested so much time in him and have so much love for him and I still find myself going back to him when I know I shouldn't ... sometimes it feels that I won't rid myself of him before it's too late. Or, that I will and won't really want to. Anytime I've tried to cut him out of my life, I've ended up more miserable than I was with him in it. But it's like the stakes keep being raised - he'll do something nicer or something more than anything he's ever done, then we'll fall out over something worse than he's ever done before. Then we won't talk for a few weeks, I'll get lonely and drunk or he'll get horny and one of us will contact the other and start the cycle over again. I hope that someday I'll be strong enough to be able to happily walk away, but I don't know if I'm there yet.
Posted by: Cindy

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 06/24/11 05:49 PM

I, too, am writing a book on my life with a Psychopath. I have published before (non-fiction) but THIS is a story that ]must be told. NO One believes that you (I) was with a Psychopath. Mine grew up in 90201 or about. Perfect family, perfect life.............was I fooled.

Write your book.I will write mine. It is no contest. SOMEONE has to make a best seller or screenplay(Gaslight is outdated, but I was gaslighted, as were we all)

My theripist and attorneys said I should write it. Of course no one would believe it. How do you write about the pain of fraud 23 years of prostitution and financial ruin), lies, physical and mental abuse, child alenation, gut wrenching tears, left with no money and yet EVERYONE BELIEVES HIM? AND HE WON IN COURT MANY TIMES.
The book is really not about him. IT IS ABOUT HOW IT HAPPENED TO ME, a smart cookie who lived in the Apple for years.
I have no one ( hopefully daughter will come back) so I have to write it for US! You write it too.

best wishes to us both.
I am new here but happy (and sad) to find similar.
Posted by: dreamertoo

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 06/25/11 07:32 PM

I wish the writers well and hope they become best sellers. This problem needs light shown on it.

I tried everywhere to get help but people just can't grasp how serious this is an the extent of the damage done in such a relationship and for some reason no one believes you/me. I sat in a Real Estate office just a few weeks ago and the realtor was telling me she knew my SB, and how he trustworthy he is. She was telling me, from my point of view, what is wrong with this picture? It happens all the time, no one ever believes he's capable of anything bad.
I hope in your books you point it out, their ability to con anyone.

Posted by: daddysproblem

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 06/29/11 09:25 AM

What if your parent was a psychopath? The damage inflicted on the children of psychopaths is devastating.

Who loves someone who aggressively tries to kill their soul? That's what a psychopath does to their children.
Posted by: Dianne E.

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 06/29/11 10:25 AM

Hi takesanocean, I would encourage you to try and set a no contact, if for no other reason remind yourself you are sleeping with everyone else he is sleeping with and we all know they have many partners. Keep up posted, don't let yourself get trapped by when he comes back extra nice, that is just trick to get what he wants.


Besides, how will you ever attract a healthy partner with someone like this in your life?
Posted by: anonymousone

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 08/05/11 06:52 AM

Originally Posted By: daddysproblem
What if your parent was a psychopath? The damage inflicted on the children of psychopaths is devastating.

Who loves someone who aggressively tries to kill their soul? That's what a psychopath does to their children.

Oh my god.. how do children learn to deal with people like this? I can't believe it.
Posted by: anonymousone

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 08/05/11 07:31 AM

I had one big lightbulb and a series of little ones...

It was the week of my final exams for university. I told him I needed time to work at it. He said he'd be sending me nice 'light' emails that week and encouraging things. I think it was in return for the sleepless nights I had spent consoling him before his exam (which he of course didn't fail to mention he got 99% in. Yes, all that anxiety, eh? and you get 99%?). I didn't really need 'light emails' from him; I just needed time to study for myself. I have had a long history of difficulties with uni because I have an eating disorder. This exam meant a lot to me because I didn't turn up to the exam of the same subject the year before, and it was a way of proving I could do it to myself. Nevertheless, instead of sending me 'light emails', he brought up that I was apparently distancing myself from him, saying it with a pout, a sigh etc. He was also expressing that he was becoming more and more anxious and having more problems. This particular week of my exams his problems escalated. Whereas in the vice versa occurance, I was having problems the week of his exam (and essentially the whole time I knew him) but I never guilt tripped him over not helping me with it, or brought issues up at crucial moments in his week. I'm not perfect, but damn, isn't this how healthy people operate? who continues to lay on their problems to someone in the one week where they need to focus on something for their own self? who says they'll do something but end up doing another? actually undermining them, but prefacing their behaviour as being helpful!?!

I suddenly realised that this was not the first time he offered support but never gave it (it was a recurring theme several times a week), and instead had all my attention and focus on his needs. When he did it at the point of my exam, I suddenly woke up and realised I had to say no to him. His anxiety was inflaming my own anxiety, and I ended up feeling a surge of anger that I couldn't quite explain (i'm not that comfortable with anger). I suddenly shut him out at that point and was distraught. I didn't think it at the time or carefully consider it, but my immediate gut feeling was that I was being guilt tripped and manipulated. My feelings were all over the shop and I ended up only studying the day before, having spent the rest of the week trying to avoid everything and being utterly confused.

I couldn't believe I had again, almost sacrificed my university course and place to which I have struggled tooth and bone to even remain at university, for this one man who I had been attached to for 4 months. And he knew it. And never apologised for it. I was losing myself to him; his erratic moods were contagious because they always flared up when I needed to work on myself. Damn right I felt angry at someone, more than I had ever felt in my entire life. The entire time with him, my eating disorder became worse, I lost interest in studying and I developed worse anxiety. This was during that phase where he was courting me! being "generous" (offering extreme examples of support, but never following through... damn, I only just realised this :\). I mean, I don't have much relationship experience at all, but that doesn't sound healthy to me at all. I felt anxious around him even when he was being 'nice'. I just realise I had four months of generalised anxiety that whole time I was with him... no wonder I couldn't let him in.

imagine if I had stayed around longer! he even hinted at being together in person (which he was subtly pushing for, at about 3 months in. So much happened in these months it didn't seem like too fast a request). I get goosebumps just thinking about it.

I think it really hit home though, in the long month of separating for him. He sent me things in the mail, swapped emails. Even after I told him no more. He assured me he loved me, tried to explain himself (nicely at first), then when that didn't work, he started bringing up his manipulative ex girlfriends, put me on the offensive by neither admitting to manipulating me or not, and saying "lets call this by it's right name" essentially beckoning me to either outright accuse him, or retract my view and accept his innocent claim. Neither of which I did, then he accused me of being unfaithful to him (we weren't even together and he was jealous of made up characters in his mind... red flag), accused me of being decitful, attacked my integrity (things he said he valued in me) and sent me some very bitter poetry that terrified me and then he harrassed me online and isolated me from the online communities I was a part of.

I had to take a few steps back and think- how would a healthy person have handled this situation? and it suddenly dawned on me.... even though I couldn't believe it and tried to justify his actions... that something was very wrong. I could not believe the man I saw in the end; how different it was from the one I knew before, and even took time to observe months prior.

Now that I look back I can see so many red flags... he tested me without me knowing, he said a lot of things online and to me that I naively accepted, that were textbook not healthy.... I ignored all my gut feelings...

Another thing was that when we talked on skype once, he answered the door for his roommates and started a conversation. As I was turning the volume down so I could give him privacy, his room mate made a comment asking "who is she" and then his roomate said "you need to get laid" and I heard a brief snippet of him saying "I know, man". My face burned.

I didn't like the way he looked at me. I couldn't stand talking to him via video chat.

He was very different before he met me... he became very gentle and emotional with me, whereas elsewhere he said he wasn't a touchy feely person, not mushy at all, hated greenpeace, hated philosophy... with me, he became a nervous wreck, pulled on my emotions almost every time I dealt with him, was needy and very "passive" (to not alert my alarm bells).

Actually one of the biggest red flags was how long we spent in conversation (he was very possessive of my time and was happy when I sacrificed family time for him) and how the topic of coversation always ended up on him and his stories. We would have marathon 5 hour conversations, I was drained from and I was the listener for 90% of it. Even when he 'humbly' encouraged me to talk, it always went back to him. I didn't care at the time, the red flag was the enormous energy toll it took on me to be in a conversation with him, even when I was the listener.
Posted by: anonymousone

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 08/05/11 07:39 AM

I think that one of my earliest lightbulb moments that I rationalised away as soon as it came- was the suspicion of fakeness...

His charm didn't seem real to me.

And secondly, his persona was amazingly fitted to mine. How he ever gracefully changed in my presence... to be everything I could want and need. He made sure to not raise any of my guards, knowing what would drive me away from him... but he did make several comments to test me, each one testing something different. And I went along and accepted him for it... as he knew I would.
Posted by: starry

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 08/05/11 12:42 PM

Originally Posted By: anonymousone
Originally Posted By: daddysproblem
What if your parent was a psychopath? The damage inflicted on the children of psychopaths is devastating.

Who loves someone who aggressively tries to kill their soul? That's what a psychopath does to their children.

Oh my god.. how do children learn to deal with people like this? I can't believe it.

This is what I told my OT, how I described it: if my soul is like a room, there is absolutely nothing in the middle of the room. Everything I love is pushed right into the 4 corners of the room. This is so people who come into the room won't be able to trample on 'my things'. I know where 'my things' are and can go into the corners of the room to find them, no problem at all.

I find it difficult to keep the door shut, so people come and go as they please. And they behave as they please in the room. Some people are respectful, some not.
Posted by: anonymousone

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 08/05/11 09:31 PM

Originally Posted By: starry
Originally Posted By: anonymousone
Originally Posted By: daddysproblem
What if your parent was a psychopath? The damage inflicted on the children of psychopaths is devastating.

Who loves someone who aggressively tries to kill their soul? That's what a psychopath does to their children.

Oh my god.. how do children learn to deal with people like this? I can't believe it.

This is what I told my OT, how I described it: if my soul is like a room, there is absolutely nothing in the middle of the room. Everything I love is pushed right into the 4 corners of the room. This is so people who come into the room won't be able to trample on 'my things'. I know where 'my things' are and can go into the corners of the room to find them, no problem at all.

I find it difficult to keep the door shut, so people come and go as they please. And they behave as they please in the room. Some people are respectful, some not.

And so the answer is, children learn to deal with it in the only way they know how, and that's to lessen pain by not having anything to hurt. I don't even know what to say (perhaps there is little to say), i'm trying to imagine what it would be like to be a child and to grow into an adult, as you have done, with a legacy of a toxic parent. But I just can't begin to have an idea of what kind of deep pain that would cause. I can only begin to scratch the surface of understanding when I think about how all the experiences in my childhood have carried through to my life now, and how difficult it is to accept and heal from some things. How sometimes it feels like a losing battle; that some things just can't be undone. How difficult it is sometimes to take small steps forward and decide the life you want to live without the legacy of negative experiences effecting your future behaviour and thoughts. I imagine this experience would be 70% amplified in a case of growing up with a toxic parent. We deserved to be loved and respected by our parents. A childhood without it, is like trying to build a house without the bricks. Only when we're old enough can we start rebuilding our own house. It's hard for everyone, but for those with toxic parents, there are more challenges and more pain to work through.

It is truly amazing that some children survive their childhoods, some of whom make great strides in their life. It is truly amazing that you survived and are here to talk about your experiences today.


I can try and empathise with why you would find it difficult to keep your door shut (I may be wrong, but i've had difficulties with emotional boundaries, not sure if you mean that, feel free to correct me). Does it change anything to see your soul room as a sacred space? as your own sacred space?
Posted by: anonymousone

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 08/05/11 09:33 PM

It's a beautiful metaphor too. As much as it seems a painful thing.
Posted by: em-ma

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 09/02/11 04:33 AM

Hi all,

my first post so if I write something that has to be edited, I appologise in advance. my lightbulb moment was yesterday, quite a few hours after I had another row with Psychopath (my husband). he is away at the moment, so I feel a bit braver standing up to him on the end of a phone, I can relate to so many of your experiences, and I wonder why I had to spend nearly 20 years married to this person, and let him get away with so much, but his obsession with transvestites and hard core gay porn (or any porn) is just too much.( I should have left five years into our marriage after finding out he "kept" two of his girlfriends - that I know of, not knowing if he had made the right decision getting married - I know..... you couldn't make it up).

he's got numerous profiles on different transexuals/transgender/crossdresser dating sites as an admirer, from what I've learned recently he has been advertising in national newsapers ( I am monitoring his activity on the net and someone who made contact after seeing his profile on one of the sites recognised him). He is in conatct with a number of them sending them sexually explicit email (eye watering material), god only knows what they say on the phone to each other, and then they arrange meetings. he is everything to everyone always telling me that "you tell people what they want to hear".

When asked why he did it he said it was because as a professional ( he is a forensic, clinical psychologist and he also specialises in gender reassingnment) he has to find out as much as possible to make him understand more about their mental state and how best to help them. He is also a member of the APA( although is not practising in the USA). All his patients speak very highly of him, apparently he has been doing an oustanding job, feeds his giant and enormous ( is it ginormous?) ego.
the row mentioned above was about him telling me how he wants to try again, etc...right after making arrangements through email to spend the weekend with one of his crossdressing friends (restaurant and a concert or play, or just a drink ...you know the usual stuff)

the problem I have now is that he is due back home in the next week or so, we've got two children ( that he mentally abused on and off, more on than off but the kids are very forgiving), and he said to me on the phone he is going to find out who is been feeding me all this c**Psychopath information, and whoever it is he's going to make sure he/she pays for it). He is unpredictable ( aren't they all), I have not spoken to anyone, family or friends - the only friend I have is HIM, he's transfered all the money and properties we have in his name, rented a deposit box (bank) and left everything private and personal (including all my jewelry ) in there.

so I am not quite sure what to do, but finding out about this mental condition, helps me cope with the actual situation a lot better, as before I use to torment myself by asking why he is doing it ( I still do a bit... if I am honest)over and over again. I am numb with pain.

hope i didn't bore you to tears, thanks for reading.

not sure whether to press the post button or not, scared to death,but i'm sure diane will sort it out.
Posted by: starry

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 09/02/11 05:15 AM

em-ma, thank you for posting and reaching out. It's incredibly brave of you to do so.

You ask 'I wonder why I had to spend nearly 20 years married to this person, and let him get away with so much...'. I'd say neither of those things were choices that were freely made by you. Psychopaths have the most incredible ability to pull you towards them and enmesh you in their lives. Before you know it you're trapped in a sticky web and the more you move (and maybe even struggle) the more enmeshed you end up getting.
Posted by: FreeBird

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 09/02/11 06:32 AM

starry! You put it perfectly! Those people have total control over our lives. I think it is IMPOSSIBLE to actually get out of such a relationship without the help of others. Maybe that's why Ps want to deprive us all of our friendships, they know it's the only way to control us. My Psychopath went almost crazy when, after another brake up - and getting back together - I told him - no more, set up the rules, started seeing people again... What he started doing when he saw he was losing control... that was a total brainwashing, and not even mine, his! He would change ALL of the stories, all the facts 180degrees... and make me believe its all true... sick bastard!
Posted by: starry

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 09/02/11 06:57 AM

Yes, and depriving someone of outside contact (especially friends) makes it very easy to manipulate and control that person's reality. Without any outside perspective you can convince someone of anything at all, and you can make them do pretty much anything.

Other proven techniques include sleep deprivation and the deprivation of food and drink.

My dad was a master at these. He would deprive me of food and drink for days and days and days (the longest time I remember was 2 weeks without food). One woman was 70 pounds when she finally escaped from him.

I suspect a lot of psychopaths use these techniques. They're very, very, very effective.
Posted by: FreeBird

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 09/02/11 09:32 AM

And they are just perfect in using your subconsciousness - my Psychopath would just make comments about my friends (especially male friends, who I have a lot of), you could always see that he is pissed off when I talked about someone or went to see someone (and it made me feel this kind of emotion - like I knew inside that he was gonna remember that and do something bad to me "in return") - he would scream at me afterwards and make me feel like a slut (he never used the word though, but you know). He would then apologize. This was a nightmare. And you subconsciously feel that you can't deal with that, so you just do what is the easiest - get rid of situations like these - for me it was losing contact with these people (and he also made me believe they were bad people coz they did this or that - he was always saying sth like: "Look what X did! How could he do it! He is such a liar..." etc.).

I still can't understand how they make us believe all this... I guess you never control your subconsciousness that well to be able to spot what someone is doing to you. You just react. And when you don't know how to react anymore... that's where you get lost. That's where they win - pushing you over the edge.
Posted by: em-ma

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 09/02/11 09:52 AM

thanks starry.

I would also add the fact the he was paranoid about me talking on the phone, he always had the impression that we were talking about him, although I use to say to him: sorry but even you are not that important that we have to talk about you all the time.

he would listen to my phone calls, to friends and family and not only, monitor what I was saying, and slowly without me realising he had pushed everyone away, and he's the only one left to talk to, to ask for advice and so on. on the other side when he answered his calls all i needed was a certain look and I would leave the room.

and one more thing he is such a flirt, in person, on the phone, in emails, he is wonderful, but I suppose i'm only stating the obvious.

Posted by: Dianne E.

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 09/02/11 12:23 PM

Hi Em, Welcome to our community. We have to help you figure out a way to get your hands on the $ and get him out of you and your children's life.

Fitting career for him.

hope i didn't bore you to tears, thanks for reading.

We cry for your pain, nothing you say would bore any of us here. How can we help you get your power and money to escape him? You will need a pit bull of an attorney to find his money trail and hopefully we can help advise you to be safe. Please do not tell him you are onto him or call him a Psychopath, act like everything is just great, don't let on that you are awake and know the truth. Start a journal and write down all his "dirty" laundry. I assume he is still living with you and your children? If so you need advise on how to cover up your trail for your online activities and can help you with that. Pretend you are the greatest actress on earth and do NOT confront anything or let him know what you know.

If you would like I think it would be a good idea to open a discussion thread so we can huddle with you to get you away from him and not end up flat broke in the process. Let me know and I'll open up one, if you have a specific title (threads with more specific titles will get you more focused attention) just let me know. I'll move you posts and comments to the new discussion thread.

Posted by: em-ma

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 09/03/11 01:29 PM

Thank you Dianne.

Today has been a better day than usual, it's most probably down to the fact that he's away and I only have to listen to his lies just a few times a day when he phones.
I don't want anything from him just the kids, my books and freedom, money is his God, it wouldn't be very wise to even go there. Besides he's in not very good health ( good enough though to do what he's doing, but long term he's going to need the money more than me ) although I am aware the children will have to be provided for, I hope he'll see sense and help the kids and if not I'll manage somehow, I just got to get out of this relationship, I feel I can do it one step at a time.

Thanks again for offering to huddle with me to get me away from him, and for listening and the advice given. Having googled psychopath and coming across this forum , reading some of the other members stories helped enormously in looking at the situation from a different angle, it's got a name, it's there I have to deal with it.

I'll probably pop back for some more advice, and keep you up to date with the progress i'm making.

Posted by: basil

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 09/19/11 03:36 PM

Hi Guys,

I discovered this forum this morning and reading about all of your experiences has been both upsetting and eye-opening. I woke in the small hours after having a really disturbing dream, which somehow made me think about a man I've been having a relationship with and I had a real moment of clarity about his behaviour and frankly, it frightened me. I'm not even sure what caused me to make the Psychopath connection, other than perhaps because my father was a diagnosed Psychopath and I know a thing or two about their modus operandi? I thought I would post to see if anyone thought his behaviour was typical of a Psychopath and also how I might give him the brush off as I'm really quite scared to keep him in my life. Apologies, I think this may be a bit of an essay so please don't feel obliged to read!

I started seeing him about a year ago and we've been more off than on during that time. He's younger than me and very good looking and I was quite surprised by his interest and I definitely encouraged it. I only ever see/saw him on his terms, he drops out of contact for days or weeks at a time then contacts me out of the blue as if nothing happened. We communicate mainly by text, he seems to prefer text contact rather than face-to-face, particularly when it comes to sexual relations. He is transfixed with breasts and likes to send me pictures of himself posing naked. His text messages tend not to make any sense if I ask him a direct question that he might prefer not to answer. I know he has a temper and I try not to invoke it, especially as I know texts are often misconstrued, but even when I try to be nice, he will turn every exchange into a competition/point-scoring opportunity. He is very quick to make very personal insults, even with no provocation. He invited me out one night then completely ignored me and ended up really insulting me and basically calling me easy in front of his friends when I spoke to them instead of him (naturally I did this as he was ignoring me and I didn't want to spend the night in the pub in silence, I'm normally quite outgoing and like chatting to people).

Sex was really perfunctory, I got nothing from it emotionally. He wanted me to touch him but didn't want to reciprocate. He wouldn't dream of touching me outside the bedroom (where the lights were always off and he got naked and into bed before I even reached the room) in an affectionate way. I said to a couple of my friends that for reasons I couldn't put my finger on, I wondered if he may be homosexual. He sent me a couple of texts recently in a sexual context where he said that I didn't know what he was capable of and also one describing in graphic detail what he would do to me and let's just say it wasn't something that I would be particularly keen on doing, it was fairly aggressive.

He has jokingly made reference to stalking me and looking through my windows previously although now it doesn't seem so funny. What seems different to other people's experiences is that I never went through a honeymoon period, he was always difficult to pin down and get an emotional response from but I put it down to him being a little emotionally dysfunctional - haha. He lives with his mother who seems very normal, his father is absent, he has been rejected by some of his family and he hates his brother with a frightening intensity. He has a great many tattoos and is really into shooting. As far as I can tell, he likes animals though! He's bad at managing money and constantly blames other people for things that go wrong in his life. A lot of people around him have suffered misfortune, including good friends he's lost through accidents, and when I jokingly mentioned he may be jinxed he flew off the handle.

In the past when I've ignored him, he always contacts me again and I relent and strike up a relationship because I think he may have changed. This time I'm adamant that I won't put up with him because I'm really quite scared, I live on my own. I think my best option is just to keep any text responses to him neutral and non-committal, gradually phasing them out as I don't want him to think I'm dumping him. I'm hoping he'll just get bored eventually. I'm also hoping that he's not dangerous, I'm sure he's not I guess it would be nice to get some input.

God, I really hope he doesn't read this.

Thank you if you do manage to read this, I feel better for sharing x
Posted by: starry

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 09/19/11 04:04 PM

basil, welcome smile

I'm sorry for what you're going through. It sounds very empty and unfulfilling. I think you are right to be wary, your gut instinct is always right. I would keep any texts and make a note of any threats he makes.

You mention that you live alone. Do you have friends that you could reach out to? Perhaps a female friend who could come and stay with you for a couple of days. Or a friend that you could arrange to check in with every evening at the same time by phone? Or family?

I don't have much advice, except maybe to remember that you don't owe him anything.
Posted by: blueheron

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 10/15/11 11:55 PM

Hello, I'm new here.

I already knew something was wrong about my mother-in-law, but the lightbulb moment came last Thursday when I was watching "The Mentalist" on tv. At the end of the show the character who was playing the new supervisor told Patrick Jane he was a psychopath, and listed all the main symptoms. And I said, "Wow! That sure sounds familiar."

After doing online searches and reading half the night about psychopaths, I was amazed. If Mother-in-law is not a psychopath, I sure don't know what else she is. She fits the whole list.

Anyway, I'm glad this group is here, even as small as it may be at this time.

blue heron
Posted by: Miss Treated

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 11/06/11 11:56 PM

Hi, this is my first time here... you guys have helped me so much already, I thank you all beyond belief. The light bulb moment... good question. When the horror had been with me a few days, after the lightning bolt, I was talking with a close friend about the whole situation. I referred to "him" as a psychopath. The word just came out. My friend said, "You mean socio-path, not psychopath." I thought I said a word that didn’t exist, some mix of psycho and socio-path. Well, that night to check my vocabulary, I went online and goggled psychopath. OMG. The article I found, What Is a Psychopath, described him to the hilt... a CHARISMATIC PSYCHOPATH. A light bulb, well not really, more like a glaring flood light. I was so amazed to see that he is labeled, that I am not the only one to have experienced this type of devil. I actually felt relieved. It wasn’t me, my reactions, my inadequacies, it was him… he brilliantly orchestrated the collapse of my life. In this article the following is what lead me to search for a support group, thank God... I found you guys. “I believe that some individuals are strong enough to stand up to the psychopath; unfortunately, not all people are, and most psychopaths succeed in permanently damaging their victims. This is why we clearly need more support groups for people who have been in relationships with psychopaths.”
Posted by: blueheron

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 11/07/11 12:18 AM

Welcome, Miss Treated. It really is empowering to finally start understanding what is going on with those infuriating people in our lives. There is some good information here and some nice people who can relate.

blue heron
Posted by: Miss Treated

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 11/07/11 12:47 AM

Hi blue heron, You are the first to talk to me. Thank you. This is new to me. I just hope it keeps me moving forward.
Posted by: FreeBird

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 11/07/11 01:27 AM

Miss Treated, welcome!

Psychopath and Psychopath are both being used to describe basically the same type. I think Psychopath has more power, but also, if you say it, people usually think of serial killers.

So I usually say psychopath-Psychopath to denote that these words mean the same.

I hope you will find as much comfort here as you can, you sure are in the right place!
Posted by: starry

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 11/07/11 03:36 AM

Welcome, Miss Treated. I have read some of your story in your other post.

I hope you continue to find the answers your are looking for.
Posted by: JamesWQ

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 11/09/11 10:31 AM

Some months after I broke up, this foggy haze in my head was starting to clear up more and more each day.

I had always thought of her as a very emotionally damaged person from the childhood abuse she had described to me..
That anyone experiencing something like that would be desensitized and different. So I had sympathy for her hard life and lots of empathy for her, and forgave her for mistreating and disrespecting me rather easily..

Then I started realizing...her sisters are all well off and most of them married (6 sisters in fact). They seem nice and are in happy relationships.

Something didn't make sense. I started wondering "What kind of person behaves like this?" and "Why would someone lie about the smallest most meaningless things?", "How could someone do something so serious and seemingly not be affected by it?". I always thought that when she didn't show or express remorse, guilt or that she was sorry; she was feeling it on the inside but holding it back. So I never confronted her with it, just expected she felt terrible enough as it was. I was wrong.

I started searching online for "compulsive liars", "manipulative people", "people with no regret" and after a while ended up in a wikipedia article reading about psychopathy and Hare's checklist. I was shocked when I started trying to put the total points together and realized she nailed a 2 pointer on almost every one...

Shortly after, I ended up finding this forum.

Since becoming more mature, I've always tried to think of the world as a good place and that bad people simply didn't exist. I would delude myself that even serial killers were simply misguided, abused, people with a shattered soul who were good deep down somehow. This line of thinking blocked me from seeing what was going on.

Thanks for the help on this forum. Lots of good people here. I think there are tons of victims who will never realize that they were once with a psychopath...I wanted answers at first and to know "why"...I don't need to know why anymore. They are just not like other people, and to fully understand one, we would have to become one. And there is no way anyone would want that. So I just accept what ever happened because Psychopath was just like that and Psychopath didn't choose to be who she was.

Posted by: Aurelia

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 11/22/11 04:50 PM

Originally Posted By: JamesWQ

Since becoming more mature, I've always tried to think of the world as a good place and that bad people simply didn't exist. I would delude myself that even serial killers were simply misguided, abused, people with a shattered soul who were good deep down somehow. This line of thinking blocked me from seeing what was going on.

That's kind of funny because I in a way sort of thought something kind of similar. I mean, I always believed that light couldn't exist without dark, so of course there would be such a thing as good and evil. I figured if there was no bad in the world, there would be no good either.

But you see, the thing with me was that when I saw/met someone who seemed troubled, I thought the same. I thought they
were just troubled, misguided. Probably had a troubled childhood. Which is true, for everyone else excluding psychos.

So, even though I had the thought in the back of my head that bad has to exist for good to exist, I never 'viscerally' understood it. I was happily deluded in my own world, a complete sitting duck with my fantastical wishful thinking. And then I was taught a lesson, and now I learn to apply what I believe rather than just let it float in the back of my mind as an after thought.

So, what I've noticed is a lot of people who get into these types of relationships are people who tend to have this same sort of wishful thinking. It's what makes us sitting ducks. Our lack of awareness makes us easy prey. In a way, I guess when people think like this - they're begging for a wake up call from reality. And reality can hit hard!

As for my lightbulb moment, it happened when he told me that he thinks about raping women. I was shocked when he said that, but he explained to me that it is normal for men to think about rape. He said that all men think about this even if they don't admit it. The way he said it to me was so casual, like talking about the weather. Then he explained to me that he couldn't help the way he thinks, that I should accept him, and saying it's women's fault for being sexy.

A few months after he said that, little red flags just kept piling up until I decided I wasn't going to take anymore of this. I felt like I was constantly under a spell, being manipulated and I couldn't see anything. The very fact that I couldn't see or understand anything was also my red flag, which helped me get out.

In the past, before him, I had a fairly ok/healthy relationship. What I know is that my first relationship did not make me feel like utter crud, and did not make me so emotionally confused to the point of wanting kill myself.

So, what I knew was that what was happening between us was not normal or healthy by any stretch of the imagination. That helped get me out.
Posted by: SonOfaPsychopath

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 11/24/11 05:27 PM

Originally Posted By: Aurelia

But you see, the thing with me was that when I saw/met someone who seemed troubled, I thought the same. I thought they
were just troubled, misguided.

So, what I've noticed is a lot of people who get into these types of relationships are people who tend to have this same sort of wishful thinking. It's what makes us sitting ducks. Our lack of awareness makes us easy prey.

The very fact that I couldn't see or understand anything was also my red flag, which helped me get out.

I second these thoughts and have been thinking them myself....
Posted by: lanvin

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 02/02/12 08:05 PM

There were several redflags. But this flag was red, flashing and screaming WAKE UP.

I had left work earlier and I thought to surprise him and have lunch together, so I drove to his work - he'd been working in a lawfirm as a lawer for 4 months. As soon as I arrived in the building, I called him and I asked him where he was. He said: I'm at work. I said: yay! I'm downstairs, come here.

He hung up immediately and turned off his cell. I was calling him non stop and 40 mins later the psycho shows up and says he was in the bathroom. Then after he realized I wasn't that stupid, he changed the story (that seems to be a common psycho behavior): I worked in this lawfirm for a while, but my boss didn't pay me so I went back to my old job, I wish I felt comfortable to share these things with you but you're so judgmental bla bla bla - he went on on how he cannot trust and rely on me.

And that's how it suddenly becomes my fault. He has a post PhD in twisting the situation.

When he left, I asked the security and doorman where was this lawfirm. They said there wasn't any lawfirm in that building. I sneaked in the emergency stairs and I walked through each floor, looked on every door. Then I researched on the internet. It didn't exist. He made up the firm, his boss' name, his colleagues' name, his intern's name, even told me about some of their cases.

The final straw was when I found out he wasn't a lawer after all. This time I had proof. I still gave him a last chance to come clean and tell me the truth, but he kept on insisting, I asked 10 times, I said I knew the truth, and he swore on his mother's life he didn't lie... When I confronted him with the proof, he changed the story again and again. When there was no possible way out he started crying and saying how embarassed he was, but how could he tell me, if I judged him so much?
Posted by: NotCrzy

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 02/15/12 12:38 AM

Hi this is my first post here.

It has been a few months since I went no contact with my psychopath bf who I have been seeing irl for 3 years after an online relationship. I have always known he was "different" (an understatement I know!) but his manipulative ways have always left me thinking I was harsh or crazy myself. It has basically always been a roller-coaster relationship and he has always been impressed with himself that my both my saddest and happiest moments in life have been caused by him.

A few years ago I looked through DSM-IV and although he could probably fit into a few diagnoses, well...even normal people could, so I have always just given him the benefit of the doubt...a diagnosis doesn't really help in day to day managing someone, after years you get to know you are stepping on eggshells and what he says today will mean nothing tomorrow.

My real lightbulb moment came when i stumbled on a Psychopath. support group online after googling his behaviour. After walking out on him on a holiday when I just couldn't cope with his sexual and verbal abuse for another second (one of his real mask slip days) I just needed to find out what the hell was wrong with this guy who had me wrapped around his little finger. The description and similarities in people's stories are just so eerily like mine, reading other people's experiences and feelings is like reading my life. The charm that pulls me to him, the extreme manipulation of my thoughts and actions, controlling my life (what I eat, wear, who I see and my work), the sexual addiction and perversions, the nastiness, lies, double life...everything.

I have gone no contact before and he has drawn me back. It has been 8weeks now, I'm feeling quite strong, really like I finally can see all the ways he has used and manipulated me, but I still miss him. If he comes calling, I'm not 100% sure I won't get back on that trainride to nowhere good again. Your stories keep me focused on the evil that he is and stop my remembering that time waaaay back when he seemed to be a really charming guy. Even in the short time since I left I feel like I am myself again finally. The world is becoming clear instead of what seemed like a fog of confusion. I have started some of the interests I had years ago, feel OK about making some new friends, can get a good night sleep and no longer feel guilty about every single little choice I make, my life is about me and my kids instead of being 100% about someone else's needs. But a part of me still wants him back. When is that going to go away...intellectually I know it is insane to even contemplate...why won't my heart listen too?
Posted by: skybluepaint

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 02/17/12 12:24 AM

"But a part of me still wants him back. When is that going to go away...intellectually I know it is insane to even contemplate...why won't my heart listen too?"

I think it is specifically because of the fact you shared your highest highs and lowest lows with him. For those of us who tend to be a bit idealistic, always try to see the good in someone, and who become addicted to helping and loving a person our gut told us was pretty messed up in the beginning, but we wanted to believe that they were just a bit odd or a troubled soul we could help, it is hard to let go of the sweet person we thought we knew. It is REALLY hard to come to terms with the fact that it was a facade.

My psychopath's mask didn't slip until the end, when she cheated on me and stared at me with dark, black eyes and a sudden, eerie admission of "you don't know my dark side." It was really frightening, like I was seeing her for the first time. When I asked her what about all that other stuff.. the love I thought we had shared, she said, "That's when I am at my best." Its as simple as that. All we see is their best and excuse their faults, which is somewhat normal in any relationship since we all have faults. But for them, being at their best is not who they are at their core. It is hard for them to keep up that mask, that act, and it IS all an act. They are exceptionally bright, astute observers of human behavior. They figure out what you like, who you are, and give you exactly what you want until one day they find someone else to use who has something they want more. Then, they tell you, "it was all a game." Psychopaths operate according to game theory, and they will always win. You will always lose.

The good news is you are refinding yourself again. I can't tell you that it gets easier, letting go of those good memories. It still hurts me today, and I haven't talked to the psychopath for a year. And I still sometimes ruminate that maybe I could've done things differently, made it work. There most definitely were things I could've done differently, but no matter what... their mask will always slip.
Posted by: NotCrzy

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 03/10/12 06:36 AM

I so much wish I had done things differently, I miss him so much, but when I try to be specific about what I miss, well....what
I miss just vanishes, because all the specifics became ugly, horrible, lonely times/experiences for me. The things I miss just became no longer real.

I can relate to what your psychopath said to you skybluepaint. Mine said much the same thing a few times - he told me "you are in love with a fantasy, and it doesn't include who I really am".

I don't think I am ready to fully agree with him. Maybe I was in love with a fantasy he created, but even when his mask slipped, I still loved him. I do still love him, I just see that as a futile and self-destructive course when there is no "good" side to him. Maybe I am just in love with a memory of his false-self and he is totally right. His comment suggests he has some insight into his behaviour, including the fantasy-self he portrayed to hook me and when he wants something from me.

Anyway, I just miss him so much. I just wish things were different and he was normal.
Posted by: FreeBird

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 03/10/12 03:19 PM

notcrzy, It is most normal what you are feeling!
Love is love. Its irrational.
We all loved those who hurt us and we saw that clear. But its not your fault to love somebody you think is human.
Ive had the hardest time, until I found out who a Psychopath. really is.

No normal human being can comprehend this. I still dont think I do. I can relate to what is clear and cannot be denied but it is impossible for us to understand what Psychopath have in their heads.
I try to think of them as "talking" animals. Just that.

It is sad, coz the love you had was true. Him being a Psychopath doesnt make YOUR feelings any less real.

And as with all feelings of love and loss - you cannot switch them off, hide them away. You can only put them on someone else. I would suggest starting with yourself coz thats where they're gonna go eventually.

You need to love yourself first. Understand, that even though he was an important part of your life, he was NOT you.
All your feelings, the good ones, they were about you. The truth is, a Psychopath senses what you need to hear and tells it to you. All of these words are fake to him but also all of them are true of you. It is what you are. You are special, magical, one in the world.

The thing is he DID tell you the truth, only he wasnt human enough to understand.

I have the most respect for any of you here. Whoever you are.
Because YOU ACT. You do. You dont listen to those people telling you "let it all go". Because you dig, you search for answers. Because you want to make a change.

That's important to maybe 1% of all the people in the world, you know. But it matters. Because it is US who are strong enough to stand up and tell the truth.
Posted by: Lilla

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 03/17/12 07:10 PM

Hello everyone..

My lightbulb moment was when my husband drugged me by putting a designerdrug in my drink one saturday evening. Our kids were at home sleeping, and I hoped and prayed they wouldn't wake up. I focused on "grounding" myself while watching my Psychopath tripping, it was surreal... I had no contact with my feelings whatsoever, but KNEW I was furious with him. I also told him I was furious, and that I didn't feel any emotions. "Now you know how it's like for me", he replied.

This is my first post, I shake as I write this. I really don't want to think about it even. My stomach turns..

It was the day after I told him he couldn't come back home when he got home from work abroad next time. I think that was what made him do it. I praised him for not getting angry when we talked the night before. I noticed my arms and feet feeling "strange", but blaimed it on the (one!) drink...

It was terrible.., diffecult to express in English. The next day I asked my sister if I "overreacted", she said "get away", but I had to wait for him to leave...(works abroad 14d at a time). I needed "room" to make a plan, collect myself and find strength to DO it (make him leave).

I dare not tell all the details (he's a hacker/cracker), I'm afraid he might get into my emailaccount.

I'm a teacher, a mother, an intelligent strong woman, but I feel so ashamed of all the things I put up with for years. The red flags were there, but I blamed them on earlier subst.abuse. Little did I know that his diagnosed dyssocial PD is the same as psychopat in the "old" system. He didn't show his REAL self until we married two years ago...

Thank God I found this Forum, you guys really helps me understand and advice on how to cope...

Posted by: Dianne E.

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 03/17/12 11:50 PM

Hi Lilla, welcome to our community, please try to not be hard on yourself, you are a kind and caring person and that is the type they target.

I think your sister gave you some very wise advise, you need to really get a real plan in order to escape safely, and safely is the key here. It sounds like your sister has been on to him.

You are more than welcome to open a discussion thread about your situation so we can help support you and offer what advise we can to help you in any way possible.

Knowledge is where your power will be and a plan is critical to making the next move. Can you go live with your sister while you work out a plan and be safe while doing so?

Posted by: Lilla

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 03/18/12 06:31 PM

Thank you for your kind words, DI!:)

I have went through with my plan. I waited for 6 days until he left offshore for a 14d workperiod. Here is how I did it:
-called his sister to tell her what he did (the last drop), and that I wouldn't let him back into my house
-called the police and asked if I could have a violencealarm (direct link to district alarmcentral)
- told some people I could trust (very few, closest family)
-told Psychopath, when he called from work. I was extremely nervous, but knew I was safe until he came back on dry land again.. He asked my "what was the last nail in the coffin"? I told him "you drugged me"! His reply was "oh, but I knew you wouldn't die, it's not illegeal"...trying to convince me of being hysterical (crazymaking). It is illegeal, but one cant be prossecuted for ordering it on the Internet, because they've changed the molecules a little bit. It has the same effect as Ketamine? (he said) but is not yet on the illegeal druglist in this particular country...
-I made apt for mediation, so I could file for divorce.

Now it is two weeks since he was back from work. I am experiencing a lot of anxiety, my mind is spinning all the time. Psychopath switches between angry, thretening behaviour when noone is around, and sad martyrlike attitude whwn there are people around. Psychopath is very aware of his fasade, and terrefied of anyone knowing this (or more). Also if I tell what has REALLY been going on behind closed doors, he will be incarsorated, loose his job and blow his "newbuilt" reputation totally. He shaped up for a few years, but since we married two years ago it has been all downhill...

He has all the Hare signs of Psychopath disorder, and also admits he doesn't feel guilty for his criminal/bad actions, even the most serious ones from before I met him. I made him my "save project" and loved him deeply, but that person is gone, was never there, a false self?

I have to see him tomorrow, in a second mediator meeting about our child... I am scared to tell the truth, he has told me straight out that he will make my life a "living h..." and "if you..., I'll kill you".

Thank you for listening to my silent screams! You give me hope that there might be light...

Posted by: Dianne E.

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 03/19/12 10:21 AM

Hi Lilla, it sounds like you are taking the right steps. Many times over the years the reason the Psychopath wins in a court situation is because the victim is hysterical from all the abuse. Please do your best to remain as calm as possible so he won't be seen as the rational one in the picture.

I just saw a show about the drugs that are being sold that are legal and the people are one step ahead of the authorities. I don't however think it is legal to give them to someone against their will or wishes. I would lay low on that one since you can't really prove it.

If you aren't already please keep a journal and record whatever the law allows where you are. If you want I can move these posts to your own thread if you would like to.

Posted by: kezza

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 03/20/12 08:54 AM

Hi Cherie, my moment was just like yours. When I began to notice how reliably he would kick me when something bad happened to bring me down or I was ill, suffering bouts of rheumatoid arthritis. He'd grab the knife in my heart and twist it for good measure; find me in tears and tell me how pathetic I was. No empathy, just annoyance that I could bother him with my petty woes. I didn't know it was psychopathy exactly, but I recognised complete lack of empathy and learned how to do without it. I lost all positive feeling for him.
Today I found out through this site what is actually wrong with him. Only half relief; good to know, but how to convince others to help protect our child? I have to stay with Psychopath to do that, to avoid Australia's dreadful custody laws. The knowledge helps, thank you everyone; but freedom still seems just a dream.
Posted by: kezza

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 03/20/12 09:18 AM

My God, Heather you could have just described my current life.
This won't do for us, will it?
But for now we have to protect the children. I understand. No doubt you've imagined clearly, as I have, how tough it would be for the kids to deal with his bullying if you were not there to help them cope; even psychological abuse is terribly damaging for them, and we women feel more capable of coping with it, especially if our affections are no longer invested in the Psychopath. It runs off our backs; we think. Well, yes, but we still feel fury that they dare to attempt to harm us at all, we who deserve the opposite.
I know where you're at, and I know the rage you must be quelling. Sometimes I feel I'm going to explode with the rage of indignation, having to pretend to like this hateful person currently dominating my life, quashing my joy (which he so loves to do!). But remember this: they are not in control of our futures. Our children will eventually be old enough to cope with him. I'm waiting until my son is about 10-12 years old. Then I'm gone!!!!! His power over me will be zero!
And then I'm going to write a bloody good book about it, with a lot of laughs, believe it or not. I'm hanging onto my sense of humour with whitened knuckles; he can't take everything!
One tip for you, if you like a joke: When Psychopaths Dr Jeckyll becomes Mr Hyde, so as to keep my child coping, I generally shout something like: 'Oh my God, a terrible, vicious, snarling beast has taken the place of our (his name)! Run for your life!' And we run about screaming. Even Psychopath has to laugh at that (usually).
My coping mechanism has been humour. Takes the sting out and deflates him on the spot.
Good luck!
Posted by: FreeBird

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 03/20/12 12:07 PM


Welcome to the forum!
I admire your attitude.
It seems like you have it figured out to some degree. What is the law in AU, you have to stay with him so that he doesn't get custody of the child? Have you tried talking to a psychiatrist (one who knows what Psychopaths are)?
Maybe they could help you? I don't know the laws in AU, but there sure are ways to win, you have to try no matter what!
And also - we are here for you!
Posted by: kezza

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 03/20/12 08:11 PM

Thanks so much, Newbird! You're right, I've been fighting this far; gotta keep going. The battle's lost if it's only half won, and I will not lose to a Psychopath.
Main thing I've noticed in these blogs are the losses; the energy, time, self-esteem - loss, loss, loss! They really do eat us up (and spit us out).
I've had a major panic attack overnight since discovering this site; suddenly I'm terrified, knowing what I know of the vacuum inside these people and how they consume us to fill it and how powerless we seem to be because we don't recognise what they're doing - until it's nearly too late!
But nobody steals from me. I had a brilliant career until I met Psychopath, who made me pregnant in that careless way they do and then took it all away - it seems. But I believe there's something to gain from every situation. I will get a book out of this; and I certainly have gained a better knowledge of myself, better certainty of my reason for being through my child. I was here to protect his three other children from his cruelty whenever they had to spend time with him, and that makes it all worthwhile on its own. Not all is loss; it only is if I only look at what is lost.
The custody laws here are ghastly; shared care 50/50 no matter what the circumstances has been the case until very recently, a 'grand experiment', rapidly going sour with so many miserable children as a result. I've stayed with Psychopath to avoid it. My savings crashed with the share market, to add to it all (almost funny to think that it too was probably brought about by a bunch of Psychopaths).
But I will take your advice because I don't think I can bend over for it anymore. The custody laws are being reviewed; shared care is not quite so definite, although is pushed. But if I can bring attention to Psychopaths condition ... maybe there's some help possible. I'll investigate.
Posted by: kezza

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 03/20/12 08:22 PM

Hi NotCrzy, please be careful! You're fine so long as you don't get caught with a child to him; if that happens, you're in deep trouble. He will have power over you at a level you couldn't possibly imagine, and he'll toy with that like a cat does a mouse before killing it. All he can do now is emotionally blackmail you, which he's doing, and that's bad enough; it's making you unhappy. But have a child to him, and you're going to feel much more than unhappiness - you're going to feel terror, shame, helplessness and real despair. You're going to be completely in his power, and trust me, he means you no good. That's why they go about creating families - they can't control anyone out in the world fully, but they can control their wives and children, and that's what they want. I've learned that the hard way. Whatever else you do with him, PLEASE don't have a child with him!
Best of luck
Posted by: NotCrzy

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 03/21/12 01:37 AM

Hi Kezza,

It is interesting you say this, the ex-Psychopath was VERY keen on the idea that we have a child together. He brought it up early in our face-face relationship (within about 3 months). To begin with I was keen, thought it was our future. Through the ups and downs that followed I did see it as something that would tie us together. But after some time I got to know him better. I realised that he would never help with day-day child rearing, that a child would never live up to his expectations of other people or deal with his bullying and that a child would tie us together in a way that would actually not be romantic at all. Once he started negotiating who would pay for what for a child (his contribution would be any health expenses only) I was dead certain this was not someone I could raise a child with. His interest in my existing children is zero so I could only see immense problems with bringing a new child into the situation. This was a topic of freqent disagreement and I am sure his enthusiasm was at least somewhat driven by a baby as a way of "capturing" me.

I am paranoid today. He sent me an email with some attachments of photos he had taken of me without my knowledge. They are innocent in content (taken in public but during a disagreement). His email has no content and the subject line implies he wants to renew contact. I see the pictures as somewhat of a threat - that he has these pictures and there could be more less innocent ones in his possession. I don't know if I am reading too much in to his decision to meail these pictures. At the moment my intention is to ignore him. I don't know what else to do. This email has angered me a great deal and really made me concerned about the potential pictures and video he probably has.

He actually sent me an innocuous message a few days ago and I realised when I received it that for all the pining I have been doing in the past few weeks, I really have no strong desire to reconnect with him. I miss nothing about him. I know he is pathological and that cannot be changed by anyone, much les me. I hope he finds another victim fast, before he causes me too much heartache.

Reading other people's stories has made me realise I am lucky to be out, and so lucky not to be dealing with a murderer. I would say the ex-Psychopath isn't violent except in a sexual way, and even then he never "attacked" me as such, he just engaged in excessively violent acts after I had consented to sex. As I said in a previous post, he stopped this once he thought I enjoyed it. My heart goes out to those of you dealing with criminals, murderers and violent men.

Despite being paranoid and angry, today's message shows signs of progress I think. I hope i can gain stength from this should I have a backward step tomorrow!

Posted by: starry

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 03/21/12 03:54 AM

Yes, you are exactly right, when you say the psychopaths use those things most sacred to us as bargaining chips.

I discovered my dad had been married countless times (including 3 times in the space of 5 years). Had he even been divorced in between? Probably not. Much easier for him to just lie by omission to other women.

And he used children as well, in the same way, as bargaining chips. I have I don't know how many half brothers and sisters, who he never even mentioned to me, and certainly doesn't keep up with (he's never sent me any birthday cards, or paid anything for my upbringing, so I'm guessing he's treated the others in the same way).

'Reading other people's stories has made me realise I am lucky to be out, and so lucky not to be dealing with a murderer. I would say the ex-Psychopath isn't violent except in a sexual way, and even then he never "attacked" me as such, he just engaged in excessively violent acts after I had consented to sex. As I said in a previous post, he stopped this once he thought I enjoyed it. My heart goes out to those of you dealing with criminals, murderers and violent men.'

NotCrzy, you can't believe how much this paragraph rang alarm bells inside my head. This, to me, is the most horrendous violence. He knew you didn't like what he was doing and that you didn't want to do these things, and yet he deliberately did these things, took pleasure in what he was doing and took pleasure in your suffering. He treated you like an object.

I'd also have a think about the conditions under which you 'consented'. I have an acquaintance who I'm sure is in a relationship with a psychopath. She knows something isn't right, and she's starting to voice her concerns, but she's not quite knitting everything together yet. She told me how after a disagreement they had they had sex when they went to bed in the evening. She said that they then had sex again, and again, and again, even though she was getting more tired and really didn't want to. A total of seven times that night, throughout the night. What's that about? It's certainly not about having sex in the kind, sharing, communicative way that we think it's about. It's about wearing someone down and letting them know that they have no space (and think about what that means: emotional space, physical space, space for thinking, space for feeling).

Sorry if I'm being very blunt here. I had a really good session with my counsellor yesterday, but I'm feeling quite angry today, mainly about all the lies and manipulations.
Posted by: NotCrzy

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 03/21/12 04:30 AM

Your bluntness is true starry. I rarely refused the ex-Psychopath sex. I can think of 2 times i refused and in both instances i ended up saying yes because of his berating. In a "normal" day he would have sex 4 times, lasting for 45-60 minutes. (in addition he would usually masturbate twice as well). This was exhausting for me. Most of the sex I did not enjoy, i liked the idea of bonding, love, mutual enjoyment but these were never concepts that existed in the relationship, and certainly not in the sex.

He didn't hold a gun to my head or physically force me to have sex with him. I have been the victim of physical sexual abuse in my past (repeatedly for 5+ years as a preteen by a family member). I just see myself as a "more willing" partner than i was in the past. Probably you are right to have alarm bells as I suspect the relationship with the ex-Psychopath will end up having a greater impact on me psychologically over time. Yes my perceptions are probably very screwed up. I have only ever had one session of 30 mins counselling, about 5 years ago. I generally deal with these issues through pushing them out of my mind. I still do not think my experiiences coare to those of us dealing with psychopaths who physcially stalk them, who murder and who assault. I pray my situation does not escalate and my continued no contact just drives him away.
Posted by: starry

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 03/21/12 04:54 AM

I'm so sorry for all the pain and suffering you've had to endure, NotCrzy. It makes me so sad.
Posted by: coping

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 03/21/12 05:25 AM

Read this thread and it makes me sad too.. My situation never escalated and I pray that the psychopath in your life stays away from you.. No contact is a powerful thing.. Good luck and god bless xxx
Posted by: Lilla

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 03/21/12 03:10 PM

Hi DI:)

Thank you! Yes you may move it to its own thread. I really need advice and support now. I'm not going to give in or let him back in this time. I got my seperationpapers by mail today. Monday he showed up at the mediatorapt. influenced by drugs and not "smart". I felt my luckplanet must have been on my side. She ( the counceller) toldl him I couldn've left my daughter in his care in such a state.

Today he was back, abusing me over the telephone. He cycles between wooing me and threatening me. I'll seire more when my children are asleep.

Hugs, L
Posted by: Dianne E.

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 03/21/12 06:29 PM

Hi Lilla, be glad to, what would you like to name it? Then I'll move over any related posts.

Posted by: Tang

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 03/21/12 07:18 PM

Hello and thank you for welcoming me to your safe place.

My lighbulb moment came after my friend of four years violated me so badlu sexually that i was all bruised and svollen,got bad bladder infection and had to go on antibiotics,could not stand for two days so i had to lay in bed more or less for a week,couldnt wear underwear because of the pain and was in bigtime mental schock.

When i confronted him Why he did this to me and Why he hurt me so much he answered in phone text msg: You did this to yourself,i almost feel sorry for you....i realized he is a psychopath.

This was in january and now finally i am slowly getting a grip on myself,not contacting him and avoiding any place i could even see his car or HIM,it only gave me so much anxiety that the thought of seeing him almost made me through up.

I am reading Without Concience now and it is helping me see that i am right about him and staying away is the right thing to do at any cost.
I want my sanity and happyness back and i will not stop trying to heal myself until i get there.

Thanks for this site
Posted by: kezza

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 03/22/12 12:14 AM

Hi Notcrzy, just a note about the photos/video thing -laugh at it if you can, to yourself; give him no response whatever. They are very emotionally childish, extremely so, and this is a tantrum to make you look at him, engage with him - the narcissist. That's all it is. Nobody else would be interested in it. He could be sued if he distributed anything private about you; he must know that. This is just for you. He doesn't want anyone else to know he's a nutter, anyway, and they would if he sent them private imagery of you - he'd give himself away. So relax, shake your head over how pathetic he is, and move on. Don't for one moment imagine he misses you; he just misses being able to control someone. Be assured that he's seeking the next victim at this very moment.
Posted by: kezza

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 03/22/12 12:27 AM

Hi Basil - he's dangerous.
I'm astonished at what you've described. Just imagine your best friend describing a man she was interested in the way you have; read your own text back to yourself as objectively as you can - you would tell her to get the hell out!

These men are dangerous in that they have no conscience, no stop switch, there's no safety net of feelings to get in the way of what they're capable of, that's what I've learned, and all the research is clear about that. I've been doing a lot of study since I joined this site, so I can decide what I should do, too.

He's dangerous because he has no good intent towards you, because he likes the suffering of others, because he thinks you're a fool to feel or care. But those are great advantages to him; you are analyzing him according to the normal person's criteria, and he knows it, which means you'll never suspect the depths of depravity and cruelty he's capable of; nobody suspects. He knows you think he might change. He doesn't even want to, none of them do.

Based on what I've learned, which now explains a lot about my Psychopath, I know although I must leave, I cannot, as my child would never cope with the mandatory visitations and I would never prove they should be prevented. I can take the abuse better than my child can; when he's old enough for us to leave, we will.

My advice to you, however, is to do what I'd love to do: no contact, no chances, new phone number, private line, new email address and friends instructed to give no information to him. Because while you allow him any contact at all, he knows you're still vulnerable to him and he'll keep at you. They HATE being dumped, it infuriates them. He's bound to want to punish you for being less available...
You can do better than this!
Posted by: kezza

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 03/22/12 12:49 AM

Hi Emma, my heart went out to your story immediately because I can see how deep in you are and I know that trap.

My Psychopath is just as obsessed with the money etc. I too was afraid to tackle that one; I can hear your fear of that. But there's a few things you need to know:

1. The law will not allow your children to do without. They will unravel whatever financial hideaways he has created to tuck his money into. And if he does not suspect you're going to leave, there'll be no warnings for him to hide it deeper than he has. They will get it. I know that about my Psychopath.

2. The law will not allow him to hurt you. He's a white collar Psychopath, as mine is; that's an advantage. They are aware of the trouble they can get into, unlike perhaps the lesser educated Psychopaths who are potentially less cautious.

3. Your lawyer will handle everything for you, including contact with him. You will not have to discuss anything with him if you choose not to; you can hang up, forward emails to your lawyer etc. And the money to pay for a good lawyer can be obtained from Psychopaths money, which they WILL get their hands on.

4. Whatever money he needs you can leave with him if you feel you must, but he can afford basic support for your children. Please know that Psychopaths DO NOT feel responsibility financially, or any other way, for their children. I have watched my Psychopath drain everything he could from his children from his former marriage, and then try to get his hands on their inheritance from their grandparents. They are truly capable of anything and justify it to themselves in the most bizarre ways. But the courts will not allow your children hardship; he'll get nowhere with that. You must not allow it out of fear of this Psychopath.

To overcome your fear of him and become a warrior (which is now what you must be), you need to discover your new purpose in life, because you now have one; a VERY important one. It is to protect all of you from hardship and further psychological abuse. You are not the victim anymore; you are a warrior.

Time to fight, Emma. But quietly, discreetly and in the way that a Psychopath would - coldly. That's what I'm now doing. Fire with fire, only it's a very cold fire indeed.
Your first step is to get a solicitor, one reputed to be great with property settlement and family law. Let them advise you to start with. You need to hear what's possible, what it would involve etc. I think that will reassure you all you need, as it did for me.
Then let them fight for you - mine's ready to take it on for me. Trouble for me is that my child is still too young to have to face Psychopath alone. So my current step is to investigate whether that can be avoided. Then onto the next one.

This far and no farther, Em!
Good luck.
Posted by: starry

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 03/22/12 02:00 AM

Originally Posted By: kezza
Trouble for me is that my child is still too young to have to face Psychopath alone.

It doesn't matter what age the children of psychopaths are, they're always too young to have to face the psychopath.
Posted by: NotCrzy

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 03/22/12 04:25 AM

Hi kezza,
Thanks for your reply, it has put me quite a bit at ease. I think you are right about his motives, it is purely a way to reel me back in. He would (rightly) anticipate either concern or anger arising in me for him having taken photos without my knowledge. In the past when i have tried no contact, inciting anger in me has been successful in getting a response and a reconnection. I'm not playing. It is easy to see through him now i know what he is ( especially with you folk bringing me back to reality). I took your advise and had a chuckle. I hope what you say is true and it would create legal problems for him if he shared peronal pictures more widely. This advice puts my mind at ease.

I hope he is looking for another victim to preoccupy himself. I suspect it might take him some time, he will have to do a really good job with his mask! smirk
Posted by: Tang

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 03/22/12 07:14 AM

I read somewhere that changins into a selfish,lazy not cooking good food and not taking a bath can drive them to leave themselfs,and they get so sick of that "changed" person that they dont look back.
Posted by: Dianne E.

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 03/22/12 11:25 AM

Hi Tang, welcome to our community. I have also read that and think there is some merit to it.

Posted by: NotCrzy

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 03/22/12 03:19 PM

Hi Tang,

I know this is true of the ex-Psychopath and It is one of the reasons I believe he will have trouble reeling in a victim he can keep for any length of time. He lives in a single room apartment that he never cleans, he is happy to live with festering dirty dishes, unwashed clothes, sleepin on the floor. His diet is poor, lives on high fat low cost takeaway. I didall his housekeeping, managed his mail/appointments/bills, and cooked. He will not do this himself, but a victim would probably need to be well-hooked before they are prepared to deal with his filthy lifestyle. He will bring himself to paying someone to clean his apartment, especially if he can exploit them (eg paying an immigrant very low wages, or having them commit to the job then cancelling when they arrive at his apartment).

He considers women his own age (almost 50) to be too world-wise and "asexual" he will be looking for an 18-22 yr old ( preferably who has a histry of abuse). I can't believe there are many young women around who are interested in a much older, averagely attractive man with poor hygiene, living in a dump and no ability to satisfy a woman sexually. (gee i make him sound like a real catch!) His best options are trying to reconnect with old victims, I think he will persist with me for a while before he succumbs to cleaning up his life.
Posted by: starry

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 03/22/12 03:44 PM

Jeez, that's really spooky, you could be describing my dad there (minus paying for the cleaner).
Posted by: Tang

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 03/22/12 04:25 PM

Yes this must also be a trademark of a Psychopath.
My x-Psychopath-friend came to live with me for 6 weeks after his house burned"wich he did for insurance money but failed" still the insurance company had to fix his house and while they were fixing it he and his son lived with me. In the beginning there was no problem he cooked for a few days and my house was almost tidy when i came home from work,but they cant hold a mask for a long time and to my surprise he always sleeps in his clothes,so eventually my house became messy and dirty and i of course had to clean and do everything along with buying food (he doesent have a job and brags about being on welfare) so when his house was finally fixed i was so happy to see them gone from my house.

Now his house is dirty,messy and disgusting because he never cleans it.
After the insurance company had fixed his house perfectly and payed him for the stuff that burned. he became so angry that they "ripped him off" and should have payed him more, i knew he burned it himself and i am scared to tell anyone that because i knew, but did not report him,i am even not feeling good telling this here but, man....it does feel good to get this bad secret off my chest smile

How is this possible that these Psychopath-people can have this hold on you??

Posted by: NotCrzy

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 03/23/12 02:05 AM

When i detail how he really is it is amazing he had (has?) a hold on me. They just seem to play so hard for that hold snd know exactly how to get it.

Re:paying for a cleaner - I think it gets to a point where if u want to get laid you have to be able to find the bed grin He is literally a multi-millionaire - why he chooses to live off charity, in sqaulid conditions wearing clothes with holes and eating crap is beyond me. He really has no desire or skills for hygiene and selfcare and is generally too stingy to pay for help except when things become desperate (eg moving out of a rental)
Posted by: kezza

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 03/23/12 10:36 AM

Hi everyone, wow, you've chosen an hilarious aspect to discuss at the moment; the squalor, the descent into depravity! Isn't it amazing??? My researching reveals this to be a classic Psychopath trait. It's described as a deliberate self-destruction as well as an attraction to depravity; the former being about choosing (thereby maintaining control) to live in a way that engenders pity - because it does, doesn't it? We see them and pity, thinking they're eccentric or something, and want to look after them. That's one of the ways Psychopath first got me in. But it's more attention-seeking, nothing less. And often a sort of 'tantrum', a reaction to their previous dumping by partner/job; they choose to opt out of society for a while and wallow in their rage and self-pity. My Psychopath began to live like this after being dumped by previous wife and kids. Don't get sucked in; sounds like none of you are, though.

Funnily enough, my Psychopath is home here at the mo; he disappears five days a week to his squalid, TOTALLY FILTHY flat in the city; so bad, the smell prevents me from entering. The estate agent is about to turf him out, I suspect (hope not; that will mean he'll be here more often). The main house, here, is okay as I keep it that way, but he keeps trying to bring junk home. I've read that they are attached to stuff as it represents their material security; they trust objects more than people, and tend to objectify people, too. We are all possessions, ladies, and let me tell you - when I turfed out his broken metal detector that he'd found on a junk heap, he was ready to kill me. I'm clearly not worth as much as it!

Thanks for sharing so much; it makes me feel much more normal to know I'm not alone in this.
Posted by: daddysproblem

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 03/23/12 12:19 PM

keeza please think twice about your child.

Based on what I've learned, which now explains a lot about my Psychopath, I know although I must leave, I cannot, as my child would never cope with the mandatory visitations and I would never prove they should be prevented. I can take the abuse better than my child can; when he's old enough for us to leave, we will.
(How do you guys put the quotes in boxes?)

Children love their parents NO MATTER WHAT. You can never outsmart a Psychopath. please read the posts from the children of the Psychopath. The damage is done to every fiber of their being. It goes beyond anything imaginable. Plus, no-
one will believe it. Because fathers LOVE their children.

Read my posts. I have no siblings anymore. He's damaged them all. And the efforts he's made to steal my son from me are awe inspiring. What i finally realize he did to my mom.. she was fragile and dependent. and he never allowed to 'parent' us. She completely gave in. But you won't and he will screw with you and your parenting forever. Wait til you have a teenager who is looking for someone 'who understands them'... won't have to look far, cause daddy's there. he understands like mommy doesn't.

Keep reading. It will hard enough if you walk away, but the day to day interaction between your child and father.. they are slick... every button will be pushed..

Look at the children here.. People well into the second 1/2 of their lives and still reeling from the impact.

Note, Hi, you use the " button and it will show as ['quote] ['/quote] and you put the text in between. I put a ' in front of quote or I couldn't show you the command. Di

Posted by: GF of ppaths Father

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 03/27/12 11:06 AM

I had two lightbulb moments. First, the teenage Psychopath, my BFs son, would destroy things for no reason. For example they had plastic Gumby and Pokey, for some reason in their bathroom. The Psychopath ate them, spitting out small pieces and swallowing others. Weird, however one day the Psychopath destroyed something that meant a lot to my BF. It was a gift from his mother and the Psychopath took a permanent marker and marked all over this gift. I tried to clean it but could not get all the marker off. My BF asked his son why he does these things. He claims he doesn't even remember doing it. We thought the truth was he just didn't understand that objects have value to others. He never valued anything. That was a lightbulb moment. I thought maybe the child had a mental illness.

Then a second and very bright lightbulb moment came a few months later. The Psychopath stole rings from a friends parents. These good people phoned my BF and said that his son stole two of their rings from their bedroom. They were not home at the time. When they got home they saw a strange hoodie in their bedroom and then noticed their rings were gone. They asked their son who the hoodie belonged to and it belonged to my BFs son. (absolutely horrible criminal)

The Psychopath walked in wearing the man's ring on his hand. He at first lied and said "oh I just wanted to try it on and forgot I was wearing it". These good people were at the time on the way over. They said they wanted the rings immediately or they would call the police. My BF told his son that, my BF put out his hand and said "both rings in my hand now". The Psychopath pulled out the woman's ring from his pocket, and also took the man's ring from his hand and put them into his fathers hand. He didn't have anything to say about taking these rings. No reaction at all.

My BF saw the good people's car pull up to the entrance of his building so he ran down with the rings. Very embarrased he apologised. When he got back to his apartment the Psychopath was in the shower and the Psychopath was singing. Psychopath never had empathy, embarrasment, never cared at all that these people had not called the police and that his father was so embarrased. He never said thank you, he never said sorry. He just sang like he always did in the shower and then went to bed. When my BF told me this story he was in shock and confused about why his son was this way. I was certain something was wrong with the teenager. I was still thinking some sort of mental illness,or possibly fetal alcohol syndrome. Now I know he is a psychopath.
Posted by: the_maenad

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 04/16/12 11:10 PM

It's described as a deliberate self-destruction as well as an attraction to depravity; the former being about choosing (thereby maintaining control) to live in a way that engenders pity - because it does, doesn't it? We see them and pity, thinking they're eccentric or something, and want to look after them. That's one of the ways Psychopath first got me in. But it's more attention-seeking, nothing less. And often a sort of 'tantrum', a reaction to their previous dumping by partner/job; they choose to opt out of society for a while and wallow in their rage and self-pity. My Psychopath began to live like this after being dumped by previous wife and kids. Don't get sucked in; sounds like none of you are, though.

How terrifying that I completely understand this. Psychopaths seem to have an ENDLESS sob story. In my case, it was his lack of recognition as a musician, the misunderstanding of people due to his 'passion', the constant struggles in his life and being thrown out of apartments and dumped onto the streets.

After actually living with him, I realized there was a reason that almost everyone wants nothing to do him.
Posted by: Samantha

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 08/12/12 05:33 PM

Hi, Samantha here..

My Light-Bulb Moment in a series of Wattages...

My Clueless Moment:

February 5th, 2012
1a.m., Sunday night, during the last Super Bowl.
I had to call the police, because my neighbor's loud music and Superbowl enthusiasm
awoke my son. Once the police left, the music was turned up even louder,
I thought, great, inconsiderate neighbor,popped in some earplugs and gave up.

Now, that it is summer, ( and, oh yes, a hell-a noise this Spring as well !) the noise met a crescendo
several weeks ago. Screaming, yelling, loud, TV, ( now named the Psychspot, located in the garage)
Oh, and by the way, Mr. M appears to be a "Friendly, Sociable Psychopath", because several voices
are heard.

10 Watt Bulb
Backyard is now quite, only his wife's voice is heard, calmly telling him,
that " I have had enough, you need to get a job, and jobs will not come to you".
Clearly, I thought, why is she speaking so quietly, calmly to him, when he has awakened
everyone in the neighborhood, and, have had the police come as well.

Trying to Process the Clue
Our new neighbor located next door to Mr. M, has screamed, "Hey! , Stop!" to him, several times, because
he had no thoughts of upsetting her dinner one night at 6:00pm. Oh, and his dog was barking as well.
I believe he actually apologized, but unsure if neighbors' were convinced of his sincerity.

40 Watts
Spoke to neighbor on left, this past week, and she informs me, "Mr. M", awoke her with his loud talking,
radio, and TV on. She told me this party was on a Thursday night, nearly 11pm.
She stated the music stopped right away, once the police arrived!!
We both believed this noise issue now over....

It is now one week later and Saturday afternoon, and Mr. M, and his Sociable Psychopaths decide, it is time for revenge,
no stops were pulled, yelling, dog barking, woman's loud scream, to me tolerable, at this point. This party started
at 3pm, and, is 97 degrees with likewise humidity.
I noticed my neighbor's arrived home, I'll call them Mom & Pop since they've been my neighbors for over
twenty years.
It appeared that the Psychopath-Party attendees noticed their arrival & the noise became even louder.
Unsure if Mom & Pop noticed this party, or, just were to tired from their travels to become involved.

75 Watts
Now nightfall: 9+ PM
The barrage of insults begin, Psychopath-Partiers out in full force.
Thought I heard someone scream, "I can't sleep", and,
"don't worry, I'll just wait until Halloween...", vaguely heard several personal attacks flung, such as,
"a redhead, that's right, I have seen you in the streets, freak!"
I realize, that I, am now the target for Mr M's short fuse, full-on melt down.

100 Watts
This chaos continued for some time, I hoped the party would come to an end, but now boards, or wooden
sticks are being added to the cacophony. Neighbors down the street, having a pool party, are heard saying
"You're Dead", or, "Drop Dead".
Mr. M raging, loud words are mumbled..
Wife is heard again, (through the now lower mumbling) once again, helping him calm himself down...
These words, in a soothing manner "Stoooop~ Stooooop~ok now~stoooop~

200+ Watts
I get it now, Light Bulb full on
I am living, along with all my other neighbors with a Psychopath.

What do I do now? do I warn my neighbors? Involve the police?
My DH tells me to lay low and allow Mr. M to choose a new target.

Posted by: laurenksm

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 08/15/12 10:36 AM

My lightbulb moment was when he accused me of manipulating a guy that I had started seeing after we broke up. I broke up with this guy because i saw my ex while on holiday and he cried, sobbed and balled his heart out declaring how much he wants us to be together, so I broke u with the "new nice guy" because i felt that i needed to give it another go with the ex.

He continued to accuse me of other things and suddenly it just clicked that he was seriously crazy and not just paranoid.

I made the decision then and there to never associate with him again. That was the last time i spoke with him but we still communicated through text messages. He had employed me into his company (now i know it was to control) so i had to get my tax group certificate off his accountant. He withheld it from me for as long as he could but now i have it so it's goodbye.

The problem is though that i am still very disturbed from the things he did and said to me that i cannot sleep and get on with life.

I am seeing a counselor but all she does is listen and doesn't seem to fully understand the terms related to "psychopath or Psychopath". I think she is actually learning things from me as well.

I really am disturbed by him and every night something else that he has said or done comes to me and i wind up going over it in my mind.

It's horribly and i just want to remember who i was and get back to that.

Thanks for reading

Posted by: newme34

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 09/05/12 03:12 PM

I've had so many lightbulb moments i don't even know which one to start with. It seems that every time i had a lightbulb moment there was someone to say to me that i was making a mistake, looking at me as though i was ungrateful. My first one was at the very beginning of our relationship. It had all seemed so perfect. He was interested in the same things as me, my mom and family loved him, he was good looking, successful and single. He was a dream come true.

I had just slit up with a cheating ex and as he swore he would never do anything like that, everything rolled along nicely. In fact, just three weeks after meeting he was due to travel around the south Americas and said he felt so strongly about me that he wanted me to accompany him! Now i'm a regular woman from a regular place, so to me this was the holiday of a lifetime. But every ounce of my body wanted to stay home. I was struck with fear, but because everyone loved him and thought he was so generous for asking me i ignored my fears that it was all to soon and that i didnt know him well enough and agreed to the trip. It was a few days later when i asked about his kids mother something clicked. He had always maintained that he had been in a relationship with her for 20+ years and had split up with her 6 years before.

Well, after realizing that i was dealing with a politician i decided to ask him the last time he slept with her. He said a month ago, a week before we met. Well, i was already half way out the door when my friends and my brothers and my mom all reminded me of the holiday and how much he had spent and that it didn't matter because he was with me now... And i listened, and i went. Its funny, half way through that holiday it had gotten so bad i just couldn't take it anymore. He berated me so badly in Miami that i flew home from that trip alone, it was the scariest journey of my life yet somewhere between him screaming at me and calling me a whore, and my doorstep it was as though none of it had happened. When i picked up the phone to him he was so full of love and how much he missed me i think i started to feel as though i imagined it all as some excuse to come home. He sent flowers and jewellery to my home and soon i really did believe that it was me being stupid. All was fine for a short while except looking back, he had to skype me every day for hours on end. He wouldn't even talk to me a lot of the time , he just wanted to know i was there. And the calls and texts were relentless, still are.

I think that one of the biggest problems i had with my Psychopath was that he was perceived to be successful. He was all fast cars, nice suits and big houses. People used to think i was lucky to have him, i think if i'm honest i did to. But for everything he did, there was a price to pay for it. None of my friends were good enough, my mother didn't love me enough. He would use the most private and intimate knowledge he had on me, by telling me that everyone new these things about me and that everyone i knew was laughing at me and that if he was me he would not even show his face on the doorstep never mind walking around happy with a smile. In the end of the beginning he made me the most beautiful home. But that turned into a prison.

And that was it, no matter how much he spent (which believe me was not a lot although he tells all he spent thousands on us which is an exaggeration) , it was still a cage. There were times when i tried to break free but he had no qualms about punishing my children along with me (by making us all homeless if i disobeyed him). But that's for another day. I am two weeks free of the Psychopath now. He would always find a way of making me feel guilty and to take him back before. I didn't know WHAT he was then. I do now. He will never change. He will keep shouting, threatening, pushing , punishing and goading me as long as I LET HIM. The choice is mine and i choose to leave.

Its funny how your brain makes you forget things that are bad. When i start facing up more to what has happened i am sure i will remember more as i know there is more, it's just making sense of it all. Funny thing, 6 months ago i was diagnosed with PTSD and didn't know where it was coming from. Guess what, i do now.

Thank you for listening/ reading
Posted by: Gala

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 11/08/12 09:09 AM

My lightbulb moment was just the other morning. I awoke, bolt upright, thinking "he is a psychopath!"

I have been reading these forums for days now, and tried to write yesterday about my experience, but am far too weak still. At some point I will, as I think it will help to heal. Thankfully, my experience was only for months, compared to the years people have written about here.

Right now, after days of severe RAGE at him via emails, I am trying to chant to myself various things: I am not crazy! He is mirroring my emotions (fake sadness, fake remorse etc). He has NO power over me anymore. And the list goes on.

And then, of course, I guess, I am still feeling the "oh my gosh, I am making it all up, I am making a mistake, I love him, want to help him." The vacillation between what I know to be the truth now, and this other "still wanting him" is such a fragile, fragile place.

I am soooo exhausted.
Posted by: Smokey

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 11/08/12 01:40 PM

Hallo Gala,
Welcome to the forum smile

I think we have all experienced the cognitive dysonance, between what our hearts tell us, and what our heads and gut instincts tell us.

There is the world of difference between knowing about Psychopaths in the abstract, or in terms of someone you are not involved with, or trying to accept those facts about someone you loved deeply.

I have had years of non contact recovery, and mostly I am OK now, but even now I sometimes still wonder if I somehow imaged or mis-interpreted it all and if it was all my fault that I lost this (apparently) wonderful man , then reality/sanity and memories returns and I know he really was a Psychopath.

I hope the site helps you find some answers and the strength to cope with them. I can promise you that people here will understand exactly what you have experienced.
Posted by: Gala

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 11/08/12 03:47 PM

Thanks Smokey, I really appreciate your reply. Yes, from all that I have read here, people seem very supportive, which is what I need now. All, and I do mean ALL, of my friends and family told me to stay away, get away from Psychopath, and I did break up with him about three months ago after almost 6 months of roller coaster hell. After two months of no contact, he emailed me under the guise of a general email to notify friends and family of his new email address. I think that all my "support group" are a bit sick of it, and I get the impression that some think I may be exaggerating.

Anyhow, this re-contact started a month of hell. I knew I was being pulled back in, and kept trying to nicely, very nicely in fact, disengage many times. Then came the whole sob story crap. I ended up going ballistic - which is the thing I really detest as it makes me feel bad. And yet at other times I want to bash his head into the pavement.

I am rambling a bit now, as my head is still *enmeshed* I guess, but right after re-contact, I had a nightmare in which he shot me in the head. My intuition was screaming at me through my nightmare! And then, in one of his emails, he suggested that "he couldn't have lived with me at that time" but that he could do better. WTH? Never, not once did I ever invite him to move in with me. He lives with his mother, but she is moving north, and he is currently camping out for months at his friends about 2 hours south of me - THANKFULLY. Initially, I felt this overwhelming urge to tell him he could move in with me, but then my BRAIN took over and said NO! He almost had me! Again, the righteous rage!

I can tell you I am so thankful that my almost 17 year old son is a wise one beyond his years. He has never liked him, and neither does his best friend. They have both supported me so very much, without me really telling them what's up.

Gosh, I wish I could afford therapy. I need a "brain unload."
Posted by: Dianne E.

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 11/08/12 07:45 PM

Hi Gala,


Gosh, I wish I could afford therapy. I need a "brain unload.

You are more than welcome to open your own thread to unload your thoughts and feelings. There is something very unique that can also help when we write down and see things in black and white.

We may not be therapists but we "get it".

Posted by: Gala

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 11/09/12 09:28 AM

Thanks, I think I may just do this.
Posted by: Great2bealive

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 11/12/12 02:27 PM

My lightbulb moment was when I was told we were going to move again, for the hundredth time almost!! i couldn't take him anymore, or his abuse. I no longer loved him and i realized it when he told me that we were going to move in with his sister, after not allowing me to have any kind of relationship with my family at all, but with his though! that same night he told me about the move, he raped me. it was the final straw, i could no longer take this from him. i didn't want to be with him sexually, so ho forced his way on me. i hated him and everything about him after that, especially after that! it gave me the courage to be able to get my "nerve up' to tell him i was not going to be with him anymore. i had to do this in front of our neighbors, when we went back to retrieve our things to move. i had to have someone around me to feel safe enough to do this.

My neighbors heard it and he still beat me up, they called the cops and he left before they could get there of course. That was my light bulb moment, a moment of clarity for me to be able to get my $%^& together and leave him for good!!It was such a wonderful feeling, having that load off of my shoulders and him not weighing me down anymore. My life has been so much better since that day. I did a whole lotta praying to be able to with stand that abuse and to leave. God made a way for me to get out of that situation and gave me the wisdom and knowledge not to ever make the same mistake again with someone else. i now have a wonderful man in my life who would lay down and die for my happiness.

Than goodness for that moment, that moment i realized i couldn't, wouldn't live like that another minute. realized i hated him, I didn't love him at all. That's no reason to stay with someone. I couldn't be un-happy another moment with him, or abused by someone.
Posted by: Beckster77

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 11/21/12 12:03 PM

My lightbulb moment was a few weeks ago when I sent him packing for what hopefully will be the last time. I had been curious and googled the definition of Psychopath and was reading the Wikipedia definition and thought OH^&%$&!! this is who I am lying in bed next to at night. I used to think it was his drinking, but then when he got sober, yes he isnt as mean anymore, but the pattern continued.

He thinks the world OWES him. He shouldnt have to pound the payment to find a job. I should give him money for cigarettes gas etc, becuase I am his wife and that is how marriage is, you support one another no matter what. When I came here and started reading other peoples posts...I realized I am not alone. There are other people who have been led to believe that they are the crazy ones...but that just isnt the case. The weird thing is, his brother is exactly the same and is putting my long time child hood friend through the SAME thing. So it MUSt be herditary.

I have tried to figure out how to make him understand why I feel the way I do. You have cheated on me twice, and you think the problem is I overreact to things I find in your phone. Uhhhhh....no the problem is you are a cheater and you think that I should just forgive you becuase you say sorry. Sorry buddy no way. Then he is manipualtive as heck...but newsflash: you cant beat the master at their own game, I am way more manipulative than you will ever be. I can run circles around you intelligence wise. So lets just get divorced and go our separate ways. You will find another vitim to leach off of, she may not have as much money as me, but you are ok you will do just fine.

The bottom line here is this: I dont want my daughter to grow up thinking that a man cheating on her is ok, if I continue to let you come home, that is what she is getting out of this situation. He makes me think I am the one that is nuts, thanks to all the posts I have read here, I am not doubting myself anymore. With you guys and the continuous help of my church and my pastor I now KNOW for sure what needs to be done. No more contact, ever.
Posted by: galetre

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 02/12/13 03:39 PM

My lightbulb moment occurred years ago. I was on the internet, crying and trying to understand why he kept hurting me over and over again. No physical violence, just unbelievable mental abuse. That is when I came across a long checklist of psychopathic traits. He matches them all. The only one I have never dealt with is the cheating, so I assume he is doing that and someday I will catch him at it. I remember being shocked, scared, and relieved all at the same time. Shocked, because of the "how can this be????" factor. Scared, because if you aren't a psychopath, of course it's scary as heck! Relieved, because I had a name for it, and it wasn't me that was crazy.

I'm not in a situation where I can get away from him. I try my best to live with it every day, to not put any stock into anything that comes out of his mouth, to not talk to his friends or family, because they have all been poisoned against me, to not expect anything. I cope the best by focusing all my energy into my life and trying to succeed and do the best I can at my career. I do not leave the children at home alone with him. I do occasionally leave the 14 y.o. in charge, but not my husband, Mr Crazy. No way. Besides him being a psychopath, he has drinking and drug abuse problems. Every now and then I think that's his whole problem - wishful thinking! He has been stoned every minute for the last 30 years of his life, and drinks every day. Not a heavy drinker, but daily, enough so that if he is at home at night he can lay down and go to sleep by 6 Psychopath.m. Good for me and the family, though!

The lightbulbs never stop going off. They never will. Today he told me his friend's Mother was coming to pick him up from our house and take him home. Mr Crazy was going out on his motorcycle at the same time to "order some glass for the greenhouse". Whatever. I'll be surprised if that's what he really did. I left to pick up my son at school, drove past our log cabin (about a mile down the road) and saw Mr Crazy's friend sitting on the front porch, obviously not at his home. I called Mr Crazy to see if he knew what his friend was doing at our cabin. He did. He was going to meet him there to play foozeball and move some rocks around the yard. Whatever. Who knows what's really going on? I don't know. I don't really care, as long as it doesn't effect me and the children.

He told me last week that a good friend of his is dying from lung cancer. This friend, "W" then contacted me on FB and had a little chat with me about normal stuff. I asked him about the cancer. He was surprised. He said his leg was swelled up and he was trying to save up enough money to go see a doctor about it. Hello? Dying? I deal with this crap every day.

When I was pregnant with our son I wanted to get away so badly. Every day he told me he would not be a father to him. Every day he begged me to get an abortion. He said I was disgusting and wouldn't touch me after the 5th month. I had the baby in a very cold December. We had only a wood stove for heat at the time. I was not allowed to sleep in our bedroom as Mr. Crazy's sleep could not be disturbed, just in case he might get some work to do the next day. He works about one day a week for a couple of hours on average. On the third day home from the hospital I asked him to add some wood to the stove because I was still having a major hard time standing up. His reply was "If you wanted to be warm, you should have gotten an abortion".

Posted by: warrioress

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 03/16/13 11:47 PM

I think I might be more ashamed, because my litebulb moment was nearly right out of the gate, very early on. First I should explain that I have a unique situation since I was once incredibly street savvy and people with unusual or underground lifestyles are not new to me, even though I had been out of any of that for years. I was happy, responsible for my life, a nice home, a dog of ten years (that will be important later) and none of my past even in the rearview mirror at this time, but I was somewhat lonely.

We were on my porch on a gorgeous summer night, having a nice dinner and a few bottles of wine. He was talking about his past and how he had done terrible things, rationalized them as 'environmental activism' and drug addiction, but allegedly was Not THAT person anymore. How he quit drugs and was in a new business and it was all going spectacularly.

We got a bit drunk, romance and all that, he started claiming that he had never met anyone like me, how incredible I was etc., we both had an unusual past and could 'relate'. I don't totally remember what the conversation was, something like "I think we should get married, ha ha", and thinking he was joking, I was saying, I am not marriage material, never really believed in it, and then in a flash, I saw something like deep rage. He wanted the 'normal' I had achieved and maybe had to offer.

He got up to go to the kitchen and I thought, OMG, this guy might be a psycho and questioned having him in my home at all, I felt fear, but questioned my thoughts (paranoia?) because of the wine. He did kinda have a 'reaction' to my stubborn attitude to not accept him immediately as his soul mate and put himself down on my couch, and I asked him right then, are you a psychopath?
He said, "of course not".

We had many discussions early on about our past. I have known dangerous people, those that protect their own but are badass to the outside world. I was psychologically re-visiting this past (fantasy), of loyalty and brotherhood, even though my own life had been totally healthy and normal for a long time.

I think I missed that 'protection' and excitement of danger, as long as you could count on being 'on the inside track'. Of course you can't. I told him right off that if I ever saw this becoming destructive to either of us I would end it in a heartbeat. Well, what a load of bluster on my part! I always think I'm tougher than I really am. I always think I can 'save' people by loving them.

My life was then incrementally destroyed, week by week, month by month, though not nearly as much as some here. Dont they just love to screw up the Holidays especially, or any good times you might look forward to, or create insanity drama right after having a beautiful time somewhere? Especially if YOU paid for it.

I made astounding mistakes, time after time. The biggest was that I refused to have him arrested the last time he went psycho and stalked me at my home. Now, I pretty much live in waves of terror, some days better for 8 hours or so, then the fear comes. I live with a pistol by my side and clock every car that looks like his in my town. I also lost my beloved dog, which is the worst thing imaginable, because I believe if she were still with me, everything would be (nearly) alright. As it is, Nothing is alright, I cry every day for that loss and guilt over it, but not for him. I have a 10 year protection order and have been in 'no contact' for a month. I have no issues with 'no contact' and no thought of any, just total disgust, anger, and working through (beyond?) revenge scenarios. The problem is, the grief, disgust and guilt that you turn inward, and fear you cant trust yourself or anyone else.

I dont go through the emotions of wanting to contact the abuser like many do, though I did, til the last incident. I literally would not piss on him if he were on fire. I do not feel compassion, I realize they HAVE control, because they target only certain people and not others. So it's NOT as if they cant HELP themselves, they do resist it when it suits them ,in business or with people they respect. This means it's deliberate and NOT Out of Control.

I have asked him why I got to be the 'lucky one', he always said it was not planned that way. Huh .

In the future I'd like to talk about totally [censored] up therapists who blame the victim and talk about 'provocation', which irks me to no end, but thats for another time.

Thanks for the place, much appreciated!
Posted by: overcome

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 04/03/13 04:11 PM

We were married for only four months and since we started to live together she changed drastically.
I was daily abused and humiliated.
I was used to her short temper and insults but the abuses were something else.
I started to be suspicious and found out she was having an affair with some guy from work.
Back then i didn´t understand how someone could change that much and as it always happens to most of us i started to blame myself even though i was nothing but good for her.
After a while i came across this book and it was just like a punch to my stomach. It described her perfectly.
I was shocked and destroyed.
Posted by: tangledup

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 04/10/13 01:06 PM

A year ago I heard a segment on NPR's This American Life, talking about Robert Hare's PCL-R. As they talked through the 20 signs or personality traits of a psychopath I realized that my daughter would score very high up in the "likely psychopath" realm. On a scale of 0-40, she was definitely in the mid-to-low 30's, Listening to that show made me feel like I had been sucker-punched. My stress level went through the roof when it dawned on me what we'd been dealing with all these years. The light bulb was on. After hearing that show, I read Mr. Hare's book "Without Conscience" and started reasearching everything I could find on psychopathy. We already knew my daughter was the poster child for RAD (reactive attachment disorder) and when I started comparing the two conditions I realized they were very similar. The mental health community doesn't like to tag kids as psychopaths (as if one can outgrow it?!) but I guess RAD is an accepted diagnosis for these personality traits. I just wish one of our many therapists had warned us years ago what they honestly thought was going on, instead of being politically correct. The fallout to our family has been devastating.
Posted by: crocodile

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 04/26/13 10:40 AM

My lightbulb moment was a few days ago and months after he left with another girl (poor thing is in danger and I feel bad about her because there's nothing anyone can do - even if somebody would tell her what he really is she will not listen like I didn't...). It's not like I didn't know all the facts and couldn't interpret them but I feel like for the last 4 years I was living under a spell and I knew there were lies and manipulation and sort but I couldn't quite pinpoint what exactly was wrong. My friend did though - she told me he was a psychopath in the first half year and I just didn't believe her. She was right all along.
The last half a year with him was a pure nightmare for two reasons - I went completely mad, I had a suicide attempt and ended up in a hospital for a few days (he didn't even call not mention visit), I was anorexic, had panic attacks, couldn't sleep, work, I was a shadow of myself. In the same time he was already in a relationship with a new victim (and turned her immediately against me, posing as a poor victim of a crazy woman - me).

He was also telling lies to anyone who would listen - that was a long on-going campaign behind my back that was happening for longer even when we on the outside seemed OK. Fortunately for me, almost all of the people who knew us turned out to be immune (turns out that he had already had a reputation before he met me and also many people observed what was going on and realised his nature). When he left me (brought his new girlfriend or victim to my place and made a scene in front of her saying that he hates me and I destroy his life, I'm crazy and so on - classy) I was surprised to notice that instead of feeling even more destroyed I actually felt free and relieved.

I almost immediately reinstated contact with my friends and family, who were completely isolated from me during this time by his lies and manipulation and generally felt like I has been woken up from a dream, like I was spellbound and not broke out of it. However, I still didn't know what he really was, I stopped blaming only myself for it but I felt like it was a fault of both of us and so on. Until I really started talking to people and learned how much he really lied, that I was not paranoid, that I had all the right impressions from the start and was tricked by him into thinking I was mental. At this moment I went to the internet and started researching the narcissistic personality disorder because that was something I felt for a longer period of time he might have. It kind of fitted, at least some symptoms but not entirely, it really did not describe everything. And then I remembered what a friend told me about him being a psychopath and I found sites for victims of psychopathy and that was it: 1:1 description of everything our relationship was, his strategies, even the fact that he couldn't understand metaphors in art (I remember I found it funny and buffing at a time that such a smart person doesn't get these things - now it makes me feel cold inside).

Now I just hope that he decided that I'm uninteresting, a broken toy and he will leave me alone. I'm not afraid about my reaction would he want to come back, I feel nothing for him but disgust but I know well that he can then try to damage me just for fun. He always enjoyed tears in my eyes. I'm only sorry for the other girl, I hope she will be strong (although this guy has a fetish for women with underlying problems - he fished me out because I was shy and lonely in a new city and she has even more problems - she comes from a pathological family and had suicide attempts as a teen: he even openly admitted to me that this is what he's attracted to in her).
Posted by: warrioress

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 04/27/13 02:08 AM

Tangled up,
I too wish therapists were more tuned into what they are dealing with. I had a haul with a therapist who insisted it was 'abandonment issues',
hearts and flowers, and that if 'me and the Spath could get over our issues , we could be together again". I kept saying, " You MUST be out of your f-ing mind, understand WHO you are dealing with, a bonafide Psychopath" . He finally apologized to me, after many upset emails and sleepless nights thinking , and him implying I was the vindictive, crazy one. But apologies do not make up for the lost nights of feeling misunderstood and insane.
Posted by: sweetb

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 05/16/13 08:29 AM

I read "Women Who Love Psychopaths" and "Psychopath Free" but before that I started with emotional unavailability and read every single article Natalie Lue wrote on Baggage Reclaim, then I considered bipolar also. I knew something wasn't right.
Posted by: crocodile

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 05/16/13 09:32 AM

Yeah, I started with a narcisst...
Posted by: brave

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 06/23/13 10:35 PM

Mine has never been a lightbulb moment just a slow coming to light of a name and a reason I experienced some of things i did. I read something about the words a psychopath will use. My mother was particularly good with guilt. Most mothers are I suppose, but I remember her sitting me down and telling me everyone just thinks I feel sorry for myself. This was after I tried to report her, and my brother to the police. There were other things again, that relate to the words she used, where she would chastise friends behind their backs for having issues with depression due to being abused as children, and she would call them weak. And she would get on her high horse about people reporting abuse that happened to them as children, about how they be need to just get over it.

I used to begrudgingly listen to her, and now I see it as a reflection on herself.

As a child I had no resources against her. She turned them against me. She does not hold that power over me. So now as an adult I talk about it. There is no shame in talking about abuse.

Age 15 and 16 should have not been so hard for me. I should have not been out of my mind from stress. I should have had some compassion. instead I felt in that time of my life I was kept very much alone.

I am coping but I never forget the damage my mother, and my brother did.

A few months ago when I left to seek help I decided to get some counseling. I talked to a counselor at a woman's shelter. I told her that my mother often called my brother a socio-path. The counselor suggested the apple didn't fall from the tree. Another counselor said something about my "socio-pathic" mother.
Posted by: xela007

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 06/30/13 01:29 PM

I know it must be hard to tell the truth face to face (but if you're ready to leave the relationship) then why not tell? In my case the truth came up to light after an ER visit - the papers clearly stated "psychopathy" I was long suspecting this diagnoses in our Psychopath. since all the behavior was just too obvious (at some point I was considering Bipolar or Borderline Personality) but I was wrong, it's psychopathy all the way.

Psychopath. continues to scam, con and probably has plans to start his evil ways just like before. Luckily I am not sure if Psychopath. will find new victims that easily this time.
Posted by: crocodile

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 06/30/13 01:42 PM

Well, it does not hurt to give him an opinion so that he has it at least a bit worse... Especially that he was officially diagnosed so it's not a crazy woman's talk;).
Posted by: Dianne E.

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 06/30/13 02:54 PM

Hi xela007,

Luckily I am not sure if Psychopath. will find new victims that easily this time.

They seem to always find new victims and actually it seems quite "normal" for them to be working several victims at a time. Doesn't really seem to matter if they are unattractive etc.

Posted by: xela007

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 07/02/13 08:48 AM

Did that - it's written black on white paper - Still the Psychopath. denies it and says that the doctor that wrote those papers is a psychopath and not him. We're lucky that he's following his treatment (seemingly he's going though a deep depression with psychotic elements too, and needs treatment for that).

Meanwhile I am looking for ways to heal, to be honest I feel worse after the real light bulb moment, finding myself stuck under the same roof with the same "old crap" and no money for therapy. A lot of the behaviors in him have changed for the good, but still you know those flashes, disgust, anger and rushing thoughts are not leaving me, I'm working on it though.

@Dianne - you are right - seems that way.

I'd have all Psychopath's in courts. I mean it's unbelievable how much pain they can cause to others - emotionally, financially and something even making a human into a non-human possibly for life, what the **** they should all be in courts (especially the ones with severe backgrounds) It's unbelievable how non-guilty psychopaths can believe they are and even act so (no conscience but still they can tell good from bad, at least throw some [censored] "sorry", "excuse me", "forgive me" words once in a [censored] while ... it's unbelievable. mad Excuse me didn't take my xanax laugh

Hope everyone is doing bit better.
Posted by: crocodile

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 07/02/13 03:16 PM

Yeah, I've heard my Psychopath has said we're "even" after I almost lost everything my life included and he got away basically unscratched. He probably means that after what happened some people like him a bit less and that must be really annoying. But no guilty feelings of course. I almost had to laugh when I've heard about it.
Posted by: xela007

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 07/03/13 05:53 AM

In reality, psychopathy is just an illness, I would hold them responsible for their actions though if they are too severe. These people go with their instinct exactly like animals do - eat, play, con, cheat, hunt you name it. It's all because of their lack of conscience - nothing amazes me from what you've said. Your psychopath is probably even saying "Damn, I should have destroyed you more, but damn my mask fell off" ....

Posted by: HeWillNotDestroyMe

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 07/12/13 05:36 PM

Mine told me he had bipolar disorder and that his psychiatrist said that he was incapable of "love". I was alright with that, because I was not invested nor had I planned to. It was not until after he rapped & beat me and then tried to get me fired by accusing me of harassment did I realize he was a psychopath. Before that I just thought he was an epic A-hole.
Posted by: crocodile

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 07/12/13 06:42 PM

That's the problem - if you've never met a guy like that you may know his an ass but you're not imagining that there is absolutely nothing there, never was, never will. Hence you tend to excuse him, try to find rationale for it and so on assuming he's like a normal human. Only when you know what you're dealing with you can really deal with it. And Psychopaths are using this to their advantage - will make excuses like "I had a [censored] up family" to make it more believable.
Posted by: crocodile

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 07/12/13 06:43 PM

Originally Posted By: xela007
In reality, psychopathy is just an illness, I would hold them responsible for their actions though if they are too severe. These people go with their instinct exactly like animals do - eat, play, con, cheat, hunt you name it. It's all because of their lack of conscience - nothing amazes me from what you've said. Your psychopath is probably even saying "Damn, I should have destroyed you more, but damn my mask fell off" ....

I'm not sure it's an illness. It's surely an abnormal version of a human personality but I don't know if you can call it an illness...
Posted by: xela007

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 07/13/13 01:13 AM

Originally Posted By: crocodile
Originally Posted By: xela007
In reality, psychopathy is just an illness, I would hold them responsible for their actions though if they are too severe. These people go with their instinct exactly like animals do - eat, play, con, cheat, hunt you name it. It's all because of their lack of conscience - nothing amazes me from what you've said. Your psychopath is probably even saying "Damn, I should have destroyed you more, but damn my mask fell off" ....

I'm not sure it's an illness. It's surely an abnormal version of a human personality but I don't know if you can call it an illness...

Once you have a genetic disorder, a brain injury, or just looking at a psychopath (secondary psychopathy), that means the psychopath has not inherited the disorder but rather developed it due to his/her enviroment, you're still looking at an illness.

Even though it's labeled in the DSM as a personality disorder, and/or mental disorder it's a genetic illness for the most part. Lacking conscience is far worse than lacking a kidney or a leg, but it's still an illness, the psychopath lacks the utterly most important part of what makes a human being.

Without a conscience you're basically an instinctual driven animal. Aren't they?

Posted by: crocodile

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 07/13/13 03:33 PM

I don't know, that's too a philosophical question for me, to define what makes a human being and what not.
In general they way you should treat and think of about Psychopaths is not an easy one from an ethical and philosophical point of view. I mean you can say it's a normal though extreme variation of a human personality or you can say it's an illness and anything in between and any of that labels has serious implications on how you treat these people in general. That applies anyway to most mental disorders and has a lot to do with free will and stuff. I don't think I can really make any hard statements about that...
Posted by: Dianne E.

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 07/13/13 07:16 PM

Hi all, some of these threads can get pretty full and I try to not over moderate but we need to stick to the topic and I really encourage you to have other conversations on different threads. I think where you are going with a deeper meaning regarding Psychopathy is very interesting.

Thanks for your understanding.

Posted by: Diane

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 08/22/13 07:08 PM

I have lived with him since 1970. For years and years I suffered from his actions, reactions and cruelty. About one year and a half ago, I finally called an ambulance when he was attempting to kill himself through drinking and prescription drugs. He hit one of the police who arrived before the ambulance and he was arrested. A whole other story. I am crying right now thinking about this incidence. He was admitted to the hospital and was diagnosed as being psychotic. I am sick myself since January 2011. I have severe tinnitus. This incident not help my stress levels which are key in keeping down in order to keep spiking as least as possible. I live in hell from the way I am treated by him and with my tinnitus at the same time.
Posted by: brave

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 08/22/13 07:49 PM

Hi Diane,

Welcome to the group. I am sorry for what you are going through and I hope you can get some respite from it all soon.
Posted by: Bunnyshy

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 08/22/13 08:32 PM

My lightbulb moment was after a series of red flags. Things were questionable from the get go, always acted shady. He started going out with a backpack filled with clothes to a fake job! Seemed giddy, as if he was getting away with something. He texted pictures from his "job" he was at (a house he was working on). They were old pictures from an old job. HA! He mixed up his fake job photos, not realizing he sent them to me over 6 weeks prior. He stood by his story, "I'm here right now. It's a new job!" Denied over and over, gaslighted me, made me feel like I did something wrong (almost). Too many red flags ignored, but this put me over my limit. Unacceptable. No contact for over a month now. Now I am just another ex in his cell phone "doll collection" :-/
Posted by: dove

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 09/01/13 03:16 PM

It took hearing the wife of his childhood friend call him a Psychopath to make all the red flags make sense. She had heard all the storys about him , storys I did not know, I knew enough though, for a year I watched him reveal his then, present life, keeping a harem of women, women who were addicted to him and would not stand up to him, who gave him money and let him take life insurance out on them, he knew he had other women and would wait miserably for their turn. He was so good at telling just enough truth in his lies that your rational mind would beleive what he told you. He once said to me that I was going to learn to love being lied to! ( I thought he was kidding)Smart smart smart guy, what a shame, what a waste, what ever the screwy wiring is about his mind, he could never apply his intelligence in any beneficial way to himself or to anyone else. I heard from him very recently after breaking contact with him five years ago and he seems worse then before but perhaps it is because I listened to him with no romantic feelings and could just see him clearly.
Posted by: toomuchstuff

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 09/30/13 12:03 PM

My light bulb went on 4 feet from a loaded gun. He held me down to punish by putting soap in my mouth. He had advanced from wrist slapping... Lots of control issues. He would molest me while I slept then brag about it. CRAZY making experience... It took me 5 months to get out---still scared he will show up at my door. I have his things long story...
Posted by: Feddup

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 12/04/13 02:37 PM

Please don't give up even if it means you publish this on the internet!
If it is about the money for the story, you need to think twice. This is about revealing these malignant people.
I also worked in "The Biz" and have put up with these types for years. Now I find them in Academia and Law. It is a contagion we MUST reveal.
I think letting these people run amok and control us is the death of humanity.
They often wrap themselves in the shroud of nobility and selflessness when all they are really doing is deceiving those with a good heart and humanity.
They depend on sound bites to cover their complex corruption and we swallow it. Everyone is too distracted to see the "game"
Posted by: water

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 12/25/13 11:29 AM

My light bulb moment regarding my daughter was in 2012. For 38+ years (since she was age 4) I was baffled by her behavior. During her infancy I mistakenly thought that I was "lucky" to have a baby who seemed never afraid of anything - no scary dreams or nightmares, no fear of people or animals or situations.... She rarely cried, except during illness or pain from injuries during accidents.

She is now 42. Since my daughter was age 4, and possibly earlier, (in retrospect) she was a pathological liar. I was perpetually baffled by her behavior - her lies -even when caught in the act with stolen objects in her hands..., her apparent lack of empathy for any human or animal, her obsession with herself as though she were princess of the universe, her inability to play alone or to enjoy anything for its own sake (such as the beauty of nature, animals, or anything that "normal" children would appreciate, her total lack of creativity....), her perpetual manipulations of people and circumstances, her lack of fear, her phony tears, her constant jealousy of others....

Due to decades of misery from this problematic, deceitful, lying, emotionally/psychologically abusive, loveless child/adult daughter of mine who had always blamed me and others for everything wrong with her, in 2012 I started researching her behavior - to conclude that she is a psychopath. Her only emotions seem to be jealousy, anger, rage, and hatred, coupled with her misperceived sense of entitlement. Nothing was ever good enough for her. She had no real friends in her entire life; she always had to buy them with presents and flattery, but most people soon tired of her, and families always kicked her out of their homes because she did not want friendships with their daughters, but rather she wanted to be the darling daughter of their family and to be the center of their attention. She was slovenly and repugnant, but in later years she learned to mimic other people whom she envied.. Her career and lifestyle enabled her to geographically relocate ever 4 years or so, so her victims were left behind.

After discovering that this repugnant daughter of mine is a psychopath, remembrances of situations over the decades came to light - not only regarding her behavior, but also regarding several relatives of mine, including my mother and most of my siblings, and my ex-husband and other "romantic" relationships who in retrospect certainly fit the description of "psychopath"... as well as many of my bosses and coworkers.

In short, there were, and still are, many psychopaths in my life. Memories keep cropping up regarding past experiences with former and present people/situations, and it's horrifying to realize how much danger (both physically and emotionally/psychologically) that I was/am in.
Posted by: toomuchstuff

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 12/26/13 02:11 PM

Welcome and I am truly sorry your pain I think after the light bulb moment we begin to see things so differently. For me I seem to be experiencing a lot of anger. that is overwhelming. I think you are describing shock confusion once we begin to understand what we have been dealing with we see it everywhere.
Posted by: water

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 12/27/13 11:01 AM

Hello, and thank you.

First, I'm having much technical difficulty with this site; e.g. repeatedly logging on successfully, but then seeing that I'm not logged on when I click to a different comment or subject... Also my first comment disappeared from the subject page (at least on my PC screen), and your comment wasn't showing there either. Finally I found my and your comments under "My Stuff". Perhaps it's my error or my misunderstanding of how to use this site??

Yes, I see it (psychopathy)almost everywhere. The statistics I'd read were that in the U.S. approximately "4%" of people, or 1 in 25, are considered to be psychopaths. While that is merely an average, and the actual numbers can be much higher in a particular area or situation (e.g. work place, family, political & corporate worlds, social network, neighborhood...) the statistic/percentage seems extremely low compared to my own life experiences & observations over the decades; Psychopaths seem to be almost everywhere, and I'd estimate that it is in the 70 percentile or even higher. I'm sure this sounds paranoid, yet I was actually blind to many of these creatures during my life, including my former "best friend" from age 6 into adulthood, and, until recently never truly comprehended just how dangerous & twisted some of them were/are either psychologically/emotionally or physically; it is only in retrospect that I realized what I had survived or escaped. Situations with creatures like this are extremely isolating, especially because they make the victim appear to be crazy, and because you can't trust anyone you know to discuss it with either because they are victims who've been programmed by the Psychopaths, or they are the Psychopaths, or you just don't know what to think of them.

For me, the worst part of dealing with any Psychopath is the perpetual lying and head games. You can never have a genuine, wholesome, or intelligent conversation with them because they are always acting and mimicking, and because lies roll off their tongues so effortlessly, and every conversation with them goes nowhere; and you/I feel like a phony for pretending not to notice the lies & inconsistencies because it does no good to point them out or to argue which would result in more lies, glibness, and inconsistencies... You know they lie all the time, yet you often don't know which is the lie and which isn't, so whenever dealing with them you constantly wonder what is really going on. Worse is the perpetual question of what are they telling other people.

My daughter, e.g., is a master manipulator of people and situations, and at the "divide and conquer" method. It's extremely complicated, and stems way back...

That is enough for today. Thank you for listening.
Posted by: toomuchstuff

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 12/27/13 06:40 PM

I saw it in my ex husband but had no clue what was back then. I have seen it in at least two pat relationships. My mother is probably NPD and my sister and brother both have problems . My sister could very well be a psychopath she and my mother live to lie and manipulate. My adult children are very groomed and I am crazy... So I am the bad guy. I always leave a family gathering wanting to spend a week in the Looney bin...Hating myself.
Posted by: Nolongerblind

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 04/25/14 05:00 PM

Early on in the relationship, out of nowhere she says while trying to imitate my New York accent...

" I'll have a brand new repertoire by the time this is over"

Knowing what I know now that is a very terrifying and disgusting thing to hear. At the time I had very little knowledge on Psychopathy but it still made the hair on my neck stand up . Looking back now it makes perfect sense to hear such a slip from a person like that as they cant hold the disguise on 24/7 .. Among many light bulb moments that's the one that really freaked me out... She was absorbing my personality and storing it for later use with her next feed...
Posted by: starburst

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 04/26/14 12:07 PM

I did not know at the time but I guess my light bulb moment occurred about a month into the marriage when she was about to walk out the door for work and she was not wearing any panties under her dress. she quickly said, she forgot and went back to he bedroom and put some on.

there were light bulb moments and red flags constantly throughout the marriage and had I discovered or at least had some knowledge of her condition (or that such an animal even existed) before she had began her devalue phase of me I could have saved myself a ton of grief and misery. its one of the main reasons I want to figure out a way to make more "normals" understand just how bad these people are and how they can ruin your life.

there is just not enough information out there to help people be aware so that when these light bulb moments happened and red flags are being raised....people can at least have a clue what they MAY be dealing with
Posted by: DanaD

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 05/18/14 08:53 AM

Mine has been recent. The psychopath in my life is my own sibling. My sister. It occurred with the threat of taking one of her possessions away, her 15 year old son. After reviewing her life history for a few days, seeing the havoc she has wrought on her childrens lives, her own life, the lightbulb went on and I started reading everything I could get my hands on about psychopaths. Chillingly classic behaviors, though she is non violent. Just does that gaslighting for manipulation, blackmail--or attempts at it--and playing the victim role and blaming everyone but herself for her own misery in her life.
Posted by: DanaD

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 05/19/14 09:05 AM

New to the forum but finding so many parallels with my sisters behavior. I finally got it when my S/O and I had to intervene and get my nephew removed from her clutches. I realize now my Mom is a psychopath, too. I realize that growing up with a brain injury I felt like I was the one who was off, even though eventually I saw my mothers' problems. I was still "less than" my sister, my mother, anyone..really. My self esteem was very low and I was depressed and anxious all the time due to the way brain injury affects brain chemistry..however now see that my Mom preyed on and enjoyed my disability and as my S/O has said, I was the saner and more balanced of my family..though I most certainly have my struggles due to brain injury and also affected by my early environment.

One of the things I wondered about was my sisters uncleanliness. My Mom, is fairly neat. My sisters households, the classic "Psychopath", are environmental haazards. Cat pee on floor, papers and food everywhere and all her apartments have either needed repainting and recarpeting or in one case, actual fumigating!

In that instance she had been drinking heavily while living there and got double pneumonia and went into a 2 month coma. My brother helped remove her stuff from the house but some stuff was left that she wanted. However, the landlords took it as payback for the damage she did and she raged about how they stole her stuff. Although, never heard that they took it due to the mess she left the place in, am quite sure they justified it that way and I view it as understandable.

It was on that note of the squalor, lack of food in house, her disappearing and leaving my nephew at home alone (15 years old) without him knowing where she was, her being passed out drunk lying in her own poo with poo smeared on light switches, that my S/O, daughter and I stepped in to let my daughter have her cousin join she and her husband.

I could not take him in due to being in senior community.

Her drinking now seems to have caught up with her and although she lobbed hard at me and got my family to cut me off, even cutting me out of their will, am sure they no longer believe her, either and are beginning to be sorry they handled us as they did..or at least my Dad is. My Mom was after some means to get at my S/O which was through getting my Dad to turn on me. Another classic "Psychopath" move..anyway, I do not think she will be doing so much harm to any of us now. Her brain seems to be going based on the VM she is leaving for my nephew. (We are keeping all those messages and since they are VM and not us recording can be used if she actually has it in her to go to court to prove she is a fit mother..but dont think she has it in her now to fight and fabricate in ways anyone will believe any longer. None of her VM as lucid enough and they even showed her vengefull, self absorbed, Psychopath side at first, but now she has lost her smugness and realizes her son does not want to come back to her and she has lost control and it sounds like she may even hallucinate. Could be she is actually trying to detox from her binge drinking as a couple of things she talks about sound very random, dont make sense, maybe hallucinating?

Anyway, am glad to have found this community. It verifies so much. Sad forum to have to come together under, but glad to have it.
Posted by: thepatsysclown

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 01/19/15 09:11 PM

after many years of chaos and confusion and getting blamed and reading reading trying to understand, one day my mother texted back exactly the same thing I texted her, my asking "why is my sister sending me ugly texts" she replied "why are you sending me ugly texts" within seconds!

some reason after all the years of trying to understand, it hit me and I was shocked when she did that, of course the reason, once again, i was getting ugly texts was because my mother lied to my sister, or spun a story and as usual I'm to blame for something they screwed up to start with
Posted by: Alice

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 05/07/15 11:18 AM

A few days ago, definitively. I'm still reeling. I always 'knew'. But now I really know. Actually I think I really knew when we first met, I've just been in denial for 5 years. I am an intelligent, sensitive, highly aware person. He's gorgeous, charming, intense, seductive, so so sexy, funny, very affectionate, generous, caring, sensitive... and, angry, criticising, lying, cheating, denying (even when there is evidence!!! What's that about?!?!). He's so smooth. And I'm so hooked. He's had all my money (£250k), and I gave it all happily. And now...This is the first time I've ever really had to confront the truth about him, and I'm still in shock. Even though I knew. I can barely breathe, or write. This is my first step.
Posted by: Dianne E.

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 05/12/15 06:56 PM

Hi Alice, welcome to our community. When you are comfortable you might share your story. Many times writing things down can help with the healing process.

Posted by: Alice

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 05/15/15 03:59 AM

Thanks Diane. I am still pretty numbed out, deeply shocked to find myself unable to end the relationship despite so much pain. I genuinely don't understand why I feel so 'addicted' to him - the pain of ending the relationship seems worse than the pain of staying in it, and I feel trapped between those two places.

In reconnecting with him, I have become my own worst enemy, which in some ways is more of a betrayal than anything he can say or do to hurt me. In my head, everything is logical, I know I have to get out. But there is an overwhelming physical panic that consumes me when I contemplate ending our relationship, and right now I don't feel strong enough to cope with the fallout. So we are pretending, or at least I am, that everything is ok. As far as he is concerned, his latest victim (I feel sorry for her) is irrelevant and he is still in denial about his unfaithfulness. As he (rightly?) says, we wouldn't even be having this 'problem' if I hadn't discovered their email exchanges. So my feelings are my problem, and as long as I keep them out of sight then he 'rewards' me with his affection. That's in between long critical rants about everything I say and do, which I take on the chin (how very British). If I let him rant he eventually comes round to being 'loving' again, playing power games to re-establish his dominance and fuel his insatiable ego. And so it goes on...

He's now talking about wanting to get married, which just seems bizarre in the context of what's going on. But it seems he is also addicted to having me around, and I guess he sees that as a way of locking me in. He is very believable in his declarations of love. When I am close to him, everything in me says 'yes' to being with him forever, no matter what that looks like. I know how utterly ridiculous that sounds, but it is how I feel. So my real problem is me, not him. I feel so raw on the inside, and right now the only thing that makes me feel better is feeling him close to me, my heart just melts and I surrender to the illusion that it will all be ok.

I have booked an appointment with a therapist this weekend, hoping that this will help me to find a way forward from this painful place.

Thank you for this forum, and for all those who share so openly here. It has given me hope. I am very much a 'work in progress', and feel grateful for this one place where I can tell the truth, however ugly or absurd it may be, and not be judged or made wrong.
Posted by: Dianne E.

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 05/15/15 07:15 AM

Hi Alice, what you are going through is quite typical. I am very pleased that you are seeking help. If you want to know what your future with him may be like I can assure you it won't be a pretty picture. Most people after extended contact like marriage or long term relationships end up with immune system issues, the body can only take the stress for so long. And if you want to get a picture of what life would be like read stories of people here who have had children with these people. If you picture life in hell imaging bringing a child into the equation. That ties you to him forever in many regards.

I would suggest you consider working on boundary issues. That appears to be the main reason why victims make the choice to stay.

I understand and if you would like to open a thread to talk more about your situation, please do there is something about writing your thoughts that helps get a clear picture about what to do. It can have amazing results when you read your own words.

Posted by: Alice

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 05/15/15 08:52 AM

Thanks Di, appreciate your sobering response. Not sure how to open a 'thread'? I would like to stay connected and communicating...
Posted by: Dianne E.

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 05/16/15 08:36 AM

Hi Alice, if you look at the top you will see a button for "New Topic".

Posted by: DancingSara

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 05/21/15 11:38 PM

My lightbulb moment was the day that I realized that I could actually predict his swing from Dr. Jeckyll to Mr. Hyde. I feel horrible admitting that because it sounds terrible. But it finally dawned on me one day. I thought "He's been like this one personality or in this certain particular 'mood', if I just wait x amount of time, he will come back in the room and behave a completely different way" (but a way that I observed time and time again.) But I didn't see this until five years into a marraige with him (and we had dated two years before we got married!) Anyway, it was like clockwork. He came up the stairs at the alotted time and was in the Mr. Hyde mask, I guess, for lack of a better way to say it.

I have been divorced from him for three years and have not told anyone this. I am fearful of saying all of this because I worry that it makes ME look crazy. I am not one for taking another person's inventory. I feel that my intuition was beginning to scream at me when the lightbulb came on. I was not a dimwit when I met him, dated him, etc. In fact, I was keeping my eyes wide open. But as wide as my eyes were, I could not have expected such a person as him. I have dated and was married once before, I'm not naive. But this guy, he was no garden variety person and neither was the relationship. This is why I never discuss what happened with him with anyone. I dont know of another person in my circle who would truly understand what I went through. So for me to write here, is very anxiety-inducing.

Anyway, after that, things started to crumble faster and faster. Ugh, it's such a long story.
But thank you for asking such a thought-provoking question. I had been waiting for the right thing to nudge me in to processing my life with the alien-vampire-gypsy-pirate wannabe.....

I forgot to mention something. At the time when I realized he was a Dr Jekyll-Mr. Hyde, it just came to me out of nowhere. I didnt question that or why I'd call him that. And I would certainly never tell anyone in my family or my friends such a thing...they'd laugh at me!

And to finish answering your question, the word "psychopath" came in to my world because I have spent the past three years searching for understanding and I think that I was looking up Narcissists online and ran across Psychopaths in the process. (His mother and brother are extremely narcissistic). THAT gave me hours and hours of reading on forums and such and then I found this site.
Posted by: Alice

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 07/05/15 04:54 AM

Hi Diane, I am still a work in progress. Going round in circles, but they are getting smaller and I think I am closer to escaping and reclaiming my life. Although I have not posted in the last few weeks, I visit the forum regularly and am really grateful to all who share and make it easier for me to see the light in my own situation.

The counselling has helped, but only as an outlet for my thoughts and feelings. My counsellor does not really get the whole psychopath thing, I'm sure she thinks I'm being overly dramatic about his behaviours. I haven't told her the half of it, it all sounds so crazy! But I am not seeing her to 'prove' that he's 'wrong', I don't need that confirmation. I just need to get past whatever it is that holds me in this toxic relationship. I have been feeling very vulnerable, driven to distraction by his infidelity but trying to push past that in the hope that maybe he wouldn't repeat his indiscretions. He certainly made quite an effort to be loving for a few weeks. But then I found another email and evidence of another secret liaison, so I can't pretend any more.

I have challenged him gently on the facts, and this has predictably provoked a series of rages and silences where I am made wrong for everything and he admits nothing. I guess that's his way of avoiding taking a look at himself; it's easier to blame me and accuse me of being "aggressive" and unreasonable. His behaviour is not up for discussion, except to deny and bounce it all back to me. I think he knows the game is up, which means it's not fun any more. He's in silent mode and absent today, I have no idea what he is thinking or feeling or doing, and in a strange way I am appreciating being left alone.

This is the third time I've got to this place: knowing that it has to end, and accepting that it's over. But I have previously found it SO hard to stay emotionally separated from him, because we share (my) home and he has nowhere to go, and I have previously caved in after a few days. I have no idea what's next. He says it will take him 3 months to get out of here (it is complicated). I'm hoping to remain calm and peaceful, but don't know how to stop my heart caving in. I still love him. If he would just go I could move on. I'm not sure if I am strong enough to hold out while he remains so physically close. 'No contact' simply isn't an option, and contact invariably leads to being sucked back in again. I need to find a way to stay strong, but I just don't know how.

The key to getting this far was to tell the truth to him about his behaviours - even though he stays in denial, I can see that he feels very exposed and uncomfortable. He's not violent or dangerous (only verbally) - I'm more at risk when he's 'loving' and sucking me back in. If I keep telling the truth, he can't do 'loving' because he's too busy being angry. So I shall keep telling the truth, and I pray that this will set us both free.

No idea how this will unfold. But hopefully I am a step closer to reclaiming my life. I wish I could feel happy about this, instead of sad. I will need to find ways to fill the emptiness of life without him, but right now I'd be happy to just crawl into a hole and stay there.

Thanks again for being there for me, and for so many others xxx
Posted by: Smokey

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 08/20/15 05:40 PM

Hi Alice,
Several years ago I was in the same position as you. It took a lot of time, work and pain to get out, but my life is soo much better now (you can see some of my posts on this forum).
If you find it difficult to understand what is going on, and why it is so difficult to leave try researching addictive relationships as well as psychopaths, I think the two are very interconnected, or at least they were for me.
Good luck
Posted by: Little_Miss

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 08/23/15 01:50 PM

Hi, I'm new here and reading your posts both filled me with sadness because you've been through so much but also filled me with hope that you have survived! I am so glad to have found this forum. I was in a relationship with a guy who turned out to be married but I didn't know until I had already given him what he wanted - and lost my mind and dignity too. At first our relationship was literally the most intense and probably the best relationship I ever had - I now know this is called the "Love bombing" phase, but I felt like the most important and luckiest girl in the world. We had a whirlwind romance and being the rich, successful business man he is, I was showered with gifts, trips and a world I had never been a part of before.

After that, he would just cut me off dead - literally cut me off, not a single word from him for months at a time. He would come back and shower me with attention - even when I thought I'd moved on, he just wouldn't take no for an answer and would just keep bombarding me with calls, texts of apologies for not being in touch (he was apparently "busy with work") and even one time I told him outright to take a hike, he then sent me the biggest bouquet of flowers to my work of all places (and he didn't know my work address so he must have looked it up). Then over time he would disappear again.

I later found out he is married and obviously cut him dead at that point; I told him I knew and that if he contacted me again, I would tell his wife.

Two months ago, almost two years to the day that we stopped speaking, he decided to text me to ask me if I'd like to go for a drink. Naturally I said no but I did let him call me and we were on the phone for 2 hours at a time. The connection is still there and he's his usual charming self.

As much as I keep beating him off, his love bombing has started again and he just won't leave me alone. He's insisting on taking me for dinner and drinks when he's next back in the UK to apologise for what he did to me, which is in 3 weeks time. I haven't responded to his messages and this seems to make it worse; it's like he needs me to respond or he just won't stop.

I don't really know what to do. The more I read about it, the more I realise that he is so text book psychopath yet I think I am also in denial that he isn't really this predator which I keep reading about because he is so lovely and charming.

I feel like I'm losing my mind. Please help me. I really don't know what to think any more!!!!

Much love x
Posted by: Jackie

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 08/23/15 07:23 PM

They say to have zero contact. My psychopath does the same thing....disappears. She cuts me off, lies, has inappropriate relationships, many sexual partners and is always angry. I am to blame for everything she does. When I call her out she goes crazy. I just want to know if they are able to cry. I broke up with her in February and she claims she cried for a 3 months. Is that possible????
Posted by: Little_Miss

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 08/29/15 02:39 PM

Hi Jackie,

As much as I'd love to say yes to your question, it's a known fact that they can't feel empathy or sympathy due to differences in their brains - that's not to say that your ex partner doesn't cry but from an outside point of view, I think it's more likely that she is saying this to pull on your heart strings and manipulate you to take her back... I'm sorry if that isn't the answer you wanted. You need to stay strong xx
Posted by: Kevlar

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 09/18/15 12:44 PM

I'm a man that was good friends with a Psychopath and we had a falling out. One day I was riding in the car with another friend and he was listening to an audio book on Psychopath's and told me this sounded just like my friend and that's when my light bulb moment happened. I invited this man into my home and treated him like a brother and how did he repay me? By dumping our friendship and pursuing my wife. My wife is now in love with him and I have lived a nightmare. I've gone through a horrible divorce and lost my entire family. Although now I have done massive amounts of research and found that he has multiple kids with multiple woman and is your typical pathological liar. He moves on through jobs and different people with out even blinking. My ex-wife now... I can tell is truly in love with him and no matter what I say to her she doesn't see the red flags. He lied to her about me several times about all the "affairs" I was having and told her to end our marriage. He was plugging me into his stories to convince my wife how horrible I was. My wife feeling neglected by me, now became an easy target for the Psychopath and made it easy for him to take over my life. I feel like i've been hit by a bus and I'm unable to set the record straight with our old friends because he is that good at convincing people. My wife is just going to learn the hard way as ive done all I can do to warn her.
Posted by: SailingYesterday

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 09/13/16 07:35 PM

Originally Posted By: Anonymous
I am curious to know when the "lightbulb" went off and you finally reaized you were dealing with a Psychopath?? Was there a particular book?, was it surfing the web? Was it something a therapist said? When was the first time the word Psychopath entered your vocabulary in describing your mate?

This situation does not pertain to a mate. Instead, it is a co-worker.

The light bulb, for me, was this individual's erratic behavior. Well, what I realized to be erratic behavior.

I started to notice that she would treat people really nice, and those people would just adore her. Then I noticed that to those same people (me being one of them) she would begin picking at. For example, she would praise them for how great of a job they were doing with their work. She would smile real big and laugh. But the next time she would speak with them, she would rip them. And this wasn't your civil ripping in a general conversation. This was manipulation, because she'd turn around and smile real big again after she had made them feel like a complete fool. And they cheer right up and yippie do and we're all friends again.

She continues this same pattern throughout the day. Sometimes it seems she is two different people.

I initially thought that she might be bipolar. Heck, she may be, but her entire "manipulation" bs she plays with people .... eh.
I started searching the internet to find that she has a couple characteristics/symptoms of a psychopath.
She tries charming people. She lies to the boss. She doesn't like when someone else does something better than her.
For example, I am a fast keyer and she, seemingly, does not like that. I don't key loud, but I key fast. I noticed about half a year ago that when I start keying really fast, she starts keying LOUDER to distract me to prevent me from keying faster than her. She does it EVERY SINGLE TIME. It's annoying! I have a sensory processing disorder/misophonia issue so it is infuriating to hear a constant BANG BANG BANG on the enter key and space bar all day long. And she does it on purpose. But that is an entirely another topic.

Anyway, there's my light bulb moment.
Posted by: Dianne E.

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 09/14/16 12:00 PM

Hi SailingYesterday, thanks for sharing your story. I also had a work experience with a psychopath. It is truly complex because once they target you, well things typically don't end well. In my book I interviewed a workplace psychopath and the "how" he did things was very enlightening. It is all about control. What are your plans to get away from the situation? If you would like to discuss your experience in more detail so others can learn I encourage you to open a new "thread" and if you need help just ask. The software here is set up as more of a data base so if you want to read more of a particular members posts, just click on their name and their posts will be listed.

Do you have any chance to move out of the department?

Posted by: wondering2

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 09/26/16 08:43 AM

I'm not sure the lightbulb is fully on yet, I just know something 'isn't right' and from what I have read so far, I may very well have a Psychopath on my hands.
As I see it, below are the facts:

Initially, we were very very close. He came from a very large family and I am an only child. It seemed we both craved one on one interaction with our SO and it seemed idyllic. I worked from home and he moved in. I easily supported us and we were together 24/7 for about 3 years.

When he was 17, he and his twin bother were in a car wreck in which his brother was killed and he suffered a major head injury.

Things that bothered me initially (red flags?)

He was always sweet to me but treated anyone else with a large amount of disrespect. It was most noticeable when dining out, he is always rude to servers, cashiers, anyone that he needs to interact with. We are both introverts and I chalked it up to him not really knowing how to act, coming from such a large, rural family, they almost never went out, eating what they farmed or raised.

He has no issue berating his 'crazy' ex, or telling me all the details of his prior relationships (all crazy of course). This, of everything, even in the beginning, made me wonder whether he had any empathy. I think I see now it's all related.

He truly seemed to think I am an object he owns. Any suggestion otherwise by me resulted in being called mean and self centered then followed with the silent treatment.

Flash forward to now, after about 7 years:
Nearly every comment he makes to me is about how 'bad' I am, mean, wrong, senile, old, forgetful or any other word you can think of intended to reduce self confidence.

I read through the 'sex' thread and some of that lines up. I am just an object he can control fully. It's all about him.

I am of a pretty strong constitution and the reality is I'm not bothered by much of this. I realize it really is HIS issue not mine and I am not crazy or senile or any of what he tries to make me think. I honestly no longer 'love' him is a partner, he hasn't been one for over 4 years. I think of him more like a 4 year old child that must be tended. I would like him gone though, so I can move on. Being an introvert is fine, but sometimes I do like reasonable adult conversation.

He has told me he burned all his ex-wife's belongings after 'she left him' so I have some amount of fear for my personal safety as well as my home and pets.

My employer has counselling available but I'm not sure it would accomplish anything.

Of course there is a lot more to this story but I think these are the items that makes that lightbulb flicker.

Posted by: Pinetrail

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 12/30/16 03:49 PM

I never could place it until he left and I had the peace and time to actually think and by then I was working on a secured psych unit and learned so much there. I just thought he was an unhappy, abusive substance abuser, drunk, cheat, thief, ex con and a compulsive liar = psychotic - I finally just had time to add it up- now and again go to an article about psychopathic behavior and today joined this forum.

There is a young woman in this building married to a psycho - I listen and watch and even said something once so she unfriended me which told me i hit close to home "truth is like poetry and most people hate poetry". No one wants to think they made a wrong choice even if warned before hand this situation is gonna bring nothing, but grief in your life. I did the exact thing. Oddly enough she is working residential psych now- won't be long until her compassion wears thin, as you are working with crazy and going home to crazy.
Posted by: Pinetrail

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 12/30/16 03:51 PM

I never mentioned the Psychopath word either. BUT brought up all the other stuff.
Posted by: Pinetrail

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 12/30/16 04:03 PM

I at one time drew a line in the sand and told him he had to get help so off he went and was so happy when he got home as this "shrink specialized in assisting people of native american heritage to assimilate into western civilization" WTF Psychopath is white so I call - the shrink was very surprised at this - we had a few conversations and he ended up dismissing Psychopath because he could not stop take therapy seriously. Psychopath then told me that therapy was all done and now all he had to do was to "Get happy" All together this took 2 months, I never bothered again and no marriage counseling either why bother? Psychopath can't be helped-none of them can be.

My sons acknowledge his psychopathy, don't hate or angry now but they stay clear haven't talked or seen him since Dec 2010. they feel better.
Posted by: Pinetrail

Re: When was your lighbulb moment? - 12/30/16 04:10 PM

You are right; my ex Psychopath lied about his first ex wife blinded him in one eye and that he was color blind and when i looked at his driver's license it stated neither so I asked about this and why he said his eye color was hazel (sign of being native american) he became so agitated that he looked right at me and I was struck how blue his eyes were. Jeez