My Story - Part Two

Posted by: Anonymous

My Story - Part Two - 07/16/03 04:02 PM

Hi all,

I am new here, but after reading your stories I felt compelled to tell my own. My ex (P) and I were "married" for 5 years and 4 days. The relationship was sprinkled with adultery, lies, financial hardships and oh my God...DRAMA! But from the outside I had a relationship all my friends envied. I had poetry, music, limosines, parties and grandiose shows of affection and expressions of love. At the time I thought it was the greatest love of my life. It was also my biggest nightmare.
As our realtionship progressed I became more and more obsessed with making him happy....being what he wanted me to be. Through his adultery I found myself further and further isolated as he intentionally targeted my closest friends as conquests. Through it all I took responsibility for his behavior (eventually) and forgave him. Each time it ate away more and more of my individuality. I found myself constantly worrying over my own behavior and my own failings in the relationship.

On our 5th wedding anniversary he picked me up in a limo....complete with roses and champagne. Over dinner he expressed his undying love for me...and his incredible luck to be with me. We toasted to the next 5 years. I was in love all over again and basking in the glow of his adoration.

4 days later he awoke, dressed and packed for a 3 day business trip. I dropped him off at the airport myself. Later that day I stopped to pull money out of the ATM only to discover the account was empty. (Here I will cut to the chase)
He had changed his identity, wiped out my bank accounts and moved on to his next victim with as many of my valuables as he could could carry. Over the next 3 months I discovered nothing I had ever known about him was true. (Except his family) Even the name he gave me was a variation of his real name. There was no record we had ever been married, or that he had ever existed. I learned from his Brother that he had been diagnosed a narcissistic psychopath in 1991....and I was victim number 9. I was completely devastated. I didn't think I could go on without him. My friends had me on a suicide watch (they returned to my life upon his exit) and I sought therapy. I started reading everything I could get my hands on about his "condition". Throughout the next year and a half he continued to call....telling me he loved me....telling me I had misinterpreted what had happened and he had not "really" left me. In the beginning I would listen, wanting to believe him, but eventually I understood they were further attempts to manipulate me.

I worried that I would not be able to turn him away if he suddenly appeared in my doorway. I knew I was vunerable to his incredible charm. So I got a restraining order against him. I knew I was free from him when he called the last time. I was in the kitchen cooking dinner when the phone rang. It was him. He talked for a few minutes and I aws interested in the new version of "How everything is really OK between us" when he said something that made me start laughing uncontrollably. In a low voice he half whispered "Don't forget to lock your door, Sandi"

I started laughing so hard I had to put the phone down! No matter how I tried to get myself under control it made me laugh harder. Finally I pulled myself together and picked up the receiver. To my surprise he was still there. This made me laugh all over again. (shorter this time) When I again picked up the phone he asked angrily "What's so damn funny?!" I replied "Yes, Phil ... I lock my doors. But now I lock the bad people OUTSIDE!" To which I laughed and hung up the phone. I must have laughed for 30 minutes. He never called again.

I was finally free...both internally and externally.

I just wanted to say that eventually it DOES stop hurting. Eventually you will SEE them for what they are and they will not have any more power over you. Don't punish yourself for being "stupid", "forgiving" or "naive". Rejoice in the fact you have that to give. Take heart in the fact that you CAN grieve, that you CAN feel. Because they will forever be closed off from everyone and will never know either sorrow or joy. And yet you.....will love again....and be loved in return.

I am not saying it has left me without scars. I am still hyper sensitive to lies from men I meet. I have not yet (after 3 years) found another man to love. But I know I will. I know you will too.

Posted by: Anonymous

Re: My story - 07/16/03 07:51 AM

Hi Sandi,

Welcome to the forum and thank you for sharing your story.

>>Take heart in the fact that you CAN grieve, that you CAN feel. <<

That is what I needed to hear today. At times I feel so numb to feelings. When reading what you wrote it reminded me of how I did have feelings, lots of them, I have so much compassion, I have a big heart, I use to care about people (now Im suspicious of everybodies motives). Then came P. He made my world shine. Then he took my feelings, my caring heart, my friendship and stomped all over them and crushed my spirit. I am in recovery now - with No Contact- and I know I will feel again. He may have taken the good away for awhile but he can't have it forever. I also know that I feel so much empathy and love for the people I meet that really share from their heart and know what the real pain is of dealing with a P.

Nice to have you here on the forum, Sandi.

Posted by: recovery

Re: My story - 07/16/03 07:56 AM

Hi Sandi

Everytime it takes my breath away about how alike they are these Ps. I agree that there is life after P and that is wonderful. But the ties that bind to my P is our child and the knowledge that although she is safe just now - she might not be in the future. I want him unmasked - but ofcourse the harder I tried to prove my case the more he could portray me as a ranting !$%$£$% - people might believe one affair, even 2 or 3 consecutive but 2 or 3 simultaneously, well it was easier to go with the P. So we moved.

That is why I am an avid reader here - to get clues on how to best protect. I am pretty much in the future but with an eye glancing back - just in case.

But I agree that when you finally get the measure of the P and realise the one you loved does not exist - then the sense of freedom is phenomenal!

best of luck

Posted by: Anonymous

Re: My story - 07/16/03 03:19 PM

Hi Sandi,

Thank you so much for sharing your story. The threads of similarity are too much to ignore. They all really do seem to follow the same pattern.

Yesterday when P#2 called at first it was work related, then his voice went low and seductive and he asked what I was doing that afternoon. There was no mistaking what he meant. Fortunately, I had plans but the fact that I responded to it was shocking to myself! When I hung up I felt violated and yucky.

>>I worried that I would not be able to turn him away if he suddenly appeared in my doorway. I knew I was vunerable to his incredible charm.<<

I hear that!!! I was caught totally off guard. It has been 10 months since I was "with" him last. It was a NIGHTMARE that has taken me months to get over and am STILL working on getting over. I was shocked at my automatic response. Like I said, I'm more vulnerable than I think to him. . .still.

I posted an article on another thread by Dr. Sam Vaknin. He is a Narcissist. It so mirrors what you described. It is a very interesting read.

>>I just wanted to say that eventually it DOES stop hurting. Eventually you will SEE them for what they are and they will not have any more power over you. Don't punish yourself for being "stupid", "forgiving" or "naive". Rejoice in the fact you have that to give. Take heart in the fact that you CAN grieve, that you CAN feel. Because they will forever be closed off from everyone and will never know either sorrow or joy. And yet you.....will love again....and be loved in return.<<

I am finding that to be true in my life as well Sandi. It feels good to open my heart again. I only do that with people I KNOW are safe right now though.

Again. . .thank you so much for sharing. I am so glad you joined us :-).

Posted by: Anonymous

Re: My story - 07/16/03 04:02 PM


Welcome to the forum. So many read this link, but not enough, for their own well intentioned reasons, tell their story.........we/i understand why. it is so scary...and heartbreaking and exhausting/unbelievable.

thanku for sharing............
Posted by: Dianne E.

Re: My story - 09/19/03 12:11 PM

This came to me by email

I need help in posting this story. Thanks M

Subject: Strength to go On

Yesterday, September l6, I filed for divorce from my N/P.It's been so very hard on me physcially and emotionally to say the least with my whole family involved. My n/P is in a rehab. And I have l yr. restraining order on him. It took me a while to actually get the divorce papers, and to actually fill them out. I have a whole support group that I am attending each week for domestic violence support. I go from denial to anger. Just in July of this year, we both were at a spiritual retreat together (that I paid for $388.00) for just 2 days. I supported him through last February, since we have been separated. I bought him cigarettes, treats, birthday gifts, etc. I spend my college loan about $l, 300.00 on him.

Anyway, I am still a student and have just received my financial aid for the fall. I did not have to give him any (now I have emergency funds) saved for my kids and me. He took my spirit, my money, my trust, and my love.

He abused my kids and me verbally and emotionally. He threatened and terrified us and I always took him back, believing that he would change. But the finally straw was in the latter week of July, this year, the State of Maine, came in and told me that he had been accused of sexually assault and physical assault on his little step-daughter, age 8, over l0 years ago. You can believe my shock and despair, my rage. The state pleads with me to do the next right thing, and yes, he is a monster, and divorce him. The abuse he put me and my kids through these allegations are so very bad...his no empathy as always, no remorse, only what he needs, again and again, his lies and betrayal.

I'm so very fearful still, as the divorce papers are on the way. Thanks for listening.

I was so very naive.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: My story - 09/19/03 02:52 PM

Dear M

I can well imagine your shock, horror and anger when you found out about your P's step daughter. But sometimes it takes a shock like this for us to realise what we are dealing with - and what we have put up with, all for nothing. If I hadn't found out that my P was abusing my nephews, I would very likely have kept on and on going back to him; taking the abuse and trying to believe in his pseudo personality. I also was VERY naive. I'm glad you've had the courage to take your life back into your own hands and hope you find peace, healing and a good life for you and your children.

Best wishes
Posted by: Dianne E.

Re: My story - 01/19/04 03:49 PM

so stupid- i wrote him this letter before he left

just more crumbs for him to bake a damn cake or rather open a bakery. more to hurt me with. when will i learn?!!!

Dear "P",
I am sitting here feeling more isolated and alone than I ever have. I know this was my doing and that you would have kept going but I knew in my heart that even though this would hurt me more than a 1000 bullets, it was best for both of us. You were the person I was closest too and I feel like a part of me has died. It hurts so much but it is good right? I will have to hurt to heal.I guess writing this made me feel not so alone like I still have a part of you here with me to listen.
I called Christi, it was the hardest thing I have ever done. I told her it was okay if she still anted you that we ended it and it was ok for the two of you to be together.
You and i left each other a long time ago anyway we were starting to hate and that is a bad thing. I will never ever love anyone the way I love you but like I said sometimes love isn't enough. I am so sorry, I wanted us to live happliy ever after but sometimes it doesn't turn out that way for whatever the reasons. it doesn't matter who is at fault because the fault doesn't change the situation. I have respect for the fact that you are being amicable and that we were able to reach an agreement without hurting each other more.
Like an idiot I was watching for the van walking and crying and talking to myself and God and asking for strength and guidance to see this through.
I am afraid to be alone and to do this . To get a job and be a single mom. It sticks like a lump in my throat and a knife in my gut. i guess if it was easy I wouldn't be normal. I kind of wonder if you and Dan went to a bar or to play pool or where you went but like I always said to you that is none of my concern. I am sorry that we have caused each other so much pain and disappointment. I wish so many things that we could go back to that first day we met and start over but that could never happen.
Posted by: Dianne E.

Re: My story - 01/19/04 04:00 PM

My husband is one ( psychopath)Am I an enabler?

Ok i don't know where to begin. some parts of this are rather explicit and I am not sure it is suitable to post however these exerpt are key elements that need to be mentioned in order for my story to be told.

I met my husband in sept of 89 i was 21.i was calling chat lines because i had just gotten out of a bad relationship and had a small son 3 years old. I was a stripper ( not proud of it ) it paid the bills. i dated and was very attractive had a few dollars in the bank and a car. He lieved the next town over. I met him the same day. He told me he was 21 (he was 18) and lied about his name and pretty much everything. He was handsome, chivalrous and charming. He told me this heartbreaking story about how before his dad died (he is not dead) they built something together (a hot tub with a rock waterfall) but had never gotten to finish it. He cried and I hugged him (we were in the jacuzzi) we had some clothing on. He said his father left him the house and business and the guy living there was an old family friend and the trustee of his fathers will ( actually a homosexual 24 years older than him that he had lived with since he was 14) Next thing I knew we were kissing passionately and and were naked it was very intense and He was already in me for about 5 seconds when a little voice inside my head said (omg he's not wearing a condom and he also will think you are a slut) I really liked him so I stopped it. I expected him to do the typical guy thing and say "but come on don't you want it? I thought you liked me. You can't leave me like this' But instead he says , " thats okay I'll wait until after we are married if I have to. I respect your wishes." this really freaked me out! I had never encountered a man who so easily gave up the sexual persuit once having gone as far as I did. This left me perplexed.He then made some sandwiches and we watched TV for awhile. we laughed and talked for hours about everything. He seemed to be the perfect guy. Said he wanted kids but most women his age didn't want a commitment etc etc. I found out later he had been listening to me on the chat line for months and even had a notebook detailing all my likes , dislikes etc. Instead of being upset, I was naive and thought "Gee this guy must really like me to go to all that trouble to impress me. How stupid I was! Silly girl. Later that night he let me have his bed and slept on the couch. I lay awake until 5 am wondering when he would make his move but he never did so finally at 5 am I jumped his bones and from that point we were inseperable. the next day he took me and my son to the mall. He knew I was looking for someone not only good for me but most importantly a father for my son. He lavished him with toys and piggy back rides and hugs and i had never seen my baby so happy. From that moment I was "in love" (actually infatuated with an illusion) He pretended to go to work in "his" business and I got nosy, I went through his things and found juivenile court records for all kinds of petty crimes, Breaking and entering, driving without a license, running from a police officer etc. They had his pic but a different name and the age of 17! I was stunned. So I got out his little black book and decided to call a few names in the. There were 3 girls I talked to. One sounded very depressed and she was much younger than I was (17) she said she loved him and wanted to have his baby but had had 4 miscarriages and had not seen him in over a month but would take him back in a minute, the other one siad he was dating her daughter and she was in a long term psychiatric treatment center because of the mental abuse in the relationship, the next one said he was a jerk and a loser and I should run. then the phone rang, I answered and she asked for him, I said he was not there , she says "so are you the new slut he is sleeping with?!" I hung up. Of course I was stunned and overwhelmed but I enjoyed the ride so far so thought I would stick around and see what came next. He brought me to meet his mother, while he was outside I asked about his father. She said he is not dead! He lives a few towns over and never sees his kids. I dont know why my son feels he has to lie to impress people. I think he has low self esteem because of his father.
A few more days passed (3 days since meeting)and I called in to work because he said he wanted to spend time with me. It was not a sacrifice since I enjoyed his company so much. He lit my ciggarettes, opened doors etc. a real gentelman. I let him drive assuming he had a drivers license and he took me to a tattoo parlor and said he wanted my name on his arm because he never wanted to forget the day we met even if I went my own way. I was amazed and told him he was crazy but he insisted so I went along and even paid for it. I went home to get a few things and when I drove back ( I love (my name ) was written in spray paint on the bridge! I loved the attention and the fact that this wealthy, sexy, romantic guy wanted to take such risks to impress me. the sex was phenominal and It was all dangerous and exciting and I liked it. We were driving along and he stopped at this scenic overlook and got out and he took my hand and said" if you are anything like you have been these few days, I want to be with you forever. I have never met anyone like you and probably never will again. If you would have me, I would like you to be my wife."my jaw dropped, I told him he was crazy that he was not in love he was in lust and we should take our time to get to know each other. He said he would wait as long as it took.I felt i was pretty worldly and had been around the block a time or two. I guess I figured I had done all their was to do in life and here was this gut ready to make a commitment and support me and my kid. No more seedy, dimly lit barroms with men pawing at me. It didnt seem like such a bad deal. So I had decided if he was stupid enough to marry me than I was stupid enough to accept. Later that day I asked the guy he lived with some questions, he was very evasive. I felt something was not right. He kept telling me just to ask "him" so later that night I told him about the phone calls, and asked about his dad, the legal papers and this guy . He broke down and cried like a baby. said his mother was very abusive, she wanted him to deal drugs at school but he wouldnt and there was this guy who was like a father figure to him ( the guy he lived with ) he had no where to go and couldnt take it anymore. His mother was in debt and was going to lose her house so the guy gave her $5000 and she gave him her son. He said at first it was great and he was like a real dad. He had lived with him for almost 4 years, after about a year, he was telling him he didnt think his pensi was normal for his age and so the guys says lets see and then it began. He said he wanted it to stop and got in trouble all the time and had numerous girlfriends, but as soon as they found out they left him and he would understand if I did too. He said he had nothing , no money etc. Iwas heartbroken. I felt his pain like I have never felt pain. I had to help him! I had to save him. I told my dad the story and he moved in the next day. More to follow



Welcome to the forum - look forward to hearing the rest of your story. You said "I felt his pain like I have never felt pain." It is amazing that they can have this effect on us - when really their pain is phony; they are just putting on an act to manipulate us.


01/18/04 06:42 AM

01/19/04 01:16 PM

Re: My husband is one ( psychopath)Am I an enabler?

Even though I know it is all a lie it is so hardto accept. Part of me wants to believe and like a heroin addict needs a fix, i need him only theres no methadone or fix for this diseased addiction

01/18/04 06:42 AM

Hi, welcome to the Forum

You write that you don't know where to begin. I can understand that. Once you discover that you've had a P in your life, a million and one thoughts run through your mind and it's hard making head or tails of what really happened.

Writing is, IMO (in my opinion), a fantasic tool to discover, who, what, where and why.

I look forward to reading the rest of your story.

Meanwhile, take care, be safe.

Posted by: Dianne E.

Re: My story - 01/20/04 03:21 PM

hmm just curious is there somewhere we could see or post pictures by any chance? it would be great is there was a "p" alert website lol. it could say this:
Ladies if you see any of these attractive,intelligent, articulate, romantic, sexy, humorous, chivalrous guys,
Posted by: Dianne E.

Re: My story - 01/20/04 03:21 PM

**Note, pictures are not encouraged. I have no way to verify the photo etc.
Posted by: Dianne E.

Re: My story - 01/20/04 03:25 PM

a sucker reborn

I am so foolish. I tried the courts and social services and they all told me they could not help unless there was recent physical violence. So unless i am willing to compromise my integrity and my relationship with God. I am helpless. I weighed the pros and cons and tried to stand my ground but he put it on the line and said he would take them, he has before and has all the money and power of his new "victim" at this point she deserves it because i spilled my guts and told her everything (5 hours on the phone) and she is still in the game.
He succeeded is manipulating me to "try" again but i told him I did not trust him, I did not believe him and that he was a lying decetful manipulative person who had no regard for anything other than his desiresI even told him he was a "P"! He actually listened and considered the possibility. ( another manipulation?) so he agreed to counseling ( only because he needed to offer me a crumb) the proceeded to tell me that he spent all our money and that he wanted to get money off of "her" and was staying until tomorrow. I told him he was going to "F" her and he admitted it ! A hint of honesty? He said it didnt matter so should not bother me. I told him to imagine the feelings eveoked when he thinks of me with another man. (he is very jealous) and tonight when he is with her, consider i could be doing the same thing. I told him it was wrong and immoral and made me sick and he needed to get his priorities straight. He said coming back broke would only make things worse. I said him staying made it worse. He told me he made his decision. So i have no choice unless I lower to his level and lie through my teeth to get what I want or need and I am not willing to do that. I told him no counseling would help anyway because he would lie and i do not trust him AT ALL so he is a fool to think that he could have a happy marriage with me. He begged to differ (been there done that many times)He said he would be here in 2 days . i told him there would be no sex between us for awhile so he had better have a real good time with her cause it would be the last he would be getting in a while. so thats it . i am sucked back into the vortex of evil oblivion. yet stangely, hope springs eternal. I have many people praying for us and I believe in God and the power of prayer. The psychiatric treatment outlook for P's is bleak however i haqve read that with long term therapy, they can control their impulses to an extent.
this chick gets $10,000.00 a month and her paycheck as an RN so he has unlimited resources at his disposal but insists he wants to try to change. I am so tired. 8 more years till my last child is out of the house. then i will be free. half of me is hoping and the other half is dreading. At least I know what to look for and how it works. the things i read about psychopaths are almost exact regarding him! I have my own issues as well, i may be a borderline or codependent or something. i am sleep deprived and lost 10 pounds in 2 days on the "my husband is a psychopath" diet! so at least something good came out of this. I do speak freely to him now and dont pretty it up, no more eggshells i hope . here is a picture of my "p"
Posted by: Dianne E.

Re: My story - 01/20/04 03:30 PM

01/20/04 03:21 AM

what to do
i have come to acrossroads. he will be coming soon. should i trust him?(NOT!) so i have to get a restraining order before he does, but then again maybe he wont do that. but all he does is lie. i am desperate. he will lie to get it but if i make the move then the horrible mess begins. i can't take it God i want to run and hide. i cant do 8 more years of this hell. please God help me.

Post Extras:

01/20/04 04:01 AM
Re: what to do

i am going to the court with my two youngest i have kept them from school. i am going to try to just get custody w/o the restraining order because of the risk of flight but i have no documentation to support it other than childrens word. It's unheard of but it works in the movies (joke) i dont think i will even get to put my foot in the door but i am going to do it on a wing and a prayer. time to put on my game face wish me luck

01/20/04 08:15 AM
Re: what to do

Hi JustaGirl

You are moving forward, even if only slowly! The more you take action and responsibility for making your life better, the more confidence it will give you. Is he violent? Has he been violent with the children? You don't mention what you are afraid of. Is there anywhere that you can get help and support? Friends? Relations? Local abused women's support groups?

You mention that you are afraid of a lot of things, including being a single Mum. Believe me, if you have been able to cope with a P and survive, you are equal to all of those things. It just takes time to find your feet.

You are in my prayers.


01/20/04 01:41 PM

Re: what to do

please see my new post entitled a Sucker reborn again
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: My story - 01/21/04 01:26 PM

Part one of my story.

I met my p when I was in a difficult relationship which seemed to be going nowhere and I was feeling lonely and bored. He was like a breath of fresh air after the men I had been meeting because most of all he seemed to really respect me. He did not make any sexual advance at all for a start which was a first for me. I was also very impressed by his intelligence and charm but I knew very soon that there was a dark side to him and inexplicable mysteries like why he was still living with his parents at 26 even though he did not want to live with them and the black moods and resentment of his mother who seemed perfectly fine to me. I soon found that he had the victim roll very deeply as part of his personality. And I was a sucker for a sob story.

It was a whirlwind romance and within a short time we were engaged to be married. I did not realise that a quick decision to propose would probably eventually mean a quick exit from the relationship. He was romantic and only seemed to want to sit holding my hand and gaze into my eyes. He was never away from my door and even called on his way to work in the mornings. Of course I was flattered and swept off my feet. He seemed perfect and was so eager to please me and do absolutely anything for me. I did notice early on that there seemed to be something lacking in him, like a sense of himself. There was some kind of emptiness and I felt that my own personality was being taken on by him. Some sort of ‘mirroring’ was taking place. And there was a kind of emotional flatness. There were also strange periods of silence, when I felt confused at the cause but unable to discuss it with him. I think they were caused because he was only responding to me and if I was not saying much then he would go quiet and the silence would develop, with me feeling unable to break it through my uncertainty and lack of confidence. It was a strange thing and had never occurred with anyone else.

I was given the charm treatment in full but had inexplicable urges to get away from him at times, that only surfaced when we were out together, usually when I had been drinking. There were also times when he seemed distant and I would wonder if he really felt the way he said he felt. It was all a bit confusing. There was a vague feeling of him acting a part rather than just being himself and he would take all the cues from me.

The thing that attracted me most I think, was his seeming need of me. I had felt that my last two relationships did not really need me and so I was very vulnerable in this area. I think it was because I did not have a very strong sense of having as much right as anyone else to be alive. If someone needed me then it justified my existence. This dysfunction in myself led me to be abused in relationships as I would only care about the needs of others and neglect my own and be blind to abuse.

My friends and family did not seem happy about him and I resented it that did not like him and so withdrew from them. They all said that I changed a lot after meeting the p but he said he wanted to be a father to my children and gave them a lot of attention (they had been badly neglected by their father so they lapped it up) so I ignored my doubts and we married quickly. There was something that bothered me but I could not put my finger on it. I said to my mother at the time that he was too good to be true. He is indeed and if only I had taken heed of my intuition.

He was very troubled about his relationship with his mother who he accused of controlling him and interfering yet he had made no attempt to get his own place. I thought this a bit strange for a 26 year old but he said he could not afford it as he was on a low wage and hated his job. It is strange that after the marriage, his parents called all of the time and I got really fed up with it and asked p to stop them coming so much yet he would not say anything to them. He learned quite quickly that I have memory problems and the best way to get his own way was to agree with me but then do nothing and I would forget. But he claimed and still does that his mother severely emotionally damaged him. But he was quite happy for her to call nearly every day. I can’t work out why he liked her coming. Maybe so that I would be more reluctant to leave the relationship if I got attached to his parents (which happened) as my own family were out of the picture somewhat and had never been supportive anyway.

Anyway, we were married within a few months. He had been in a group of young people who met for social outings and to raise money for charity and who would eventually become members of the local Freemasons Lodge. My sister in law told me that he was a social climber and indeed I discovered that this was his aim. He knew that he would receive privilege from knowing the right people and was quite happy to mix with this sort just to get what he wanted out of life. He was always very envious of what others had careers and houses etc but never was willing to work hard for those things. I did not like those types of people and thought them superficial and false. I asked him to give up going to the meetings and felt justified as he had effectively ended all of my own friendships. He agreed but I think that there was resentment later.

Soon after we were married I was shocked to discover that he did not have a clue about money and showed the first signs of irresponsibility and quite oblivious to the concept of economising, even though he had changed his job, which was a good one (after much drifting) training as an architectural draftsman, just before we were married, but ended up with no work after an attempt at self employment selling kitchens. He told me that he would earn a lot of money from selling the kitchens.

A few days after we married we went out to buy food and he had no money (I did not know at the time that he was deeply in debt) But he knew that I had sent back my benefit book the previous week after I told the DSS I was getting married. I then found out that he was in debt, to the tune of about 20 thousand pounds by today’s value. He only told me because the creditors were threatening court action as he had not been making his payments and there was no money to do so. I was shocked that he had let me marry him without revealing this to me especially since I had had a very hard time being married to a compulsive gambler before him.

There were many, many rows about it as I asked him why he did not tell me. He said that he did not tell me as he was scared he would lose me, which sounds very lame now as if he was sure that I loved him, then the obvious course of action would be to put off the wedding till he had paid it or until he was in a stable better paid job especially when there were two children involved.

The thing which bothered me though was that although he did say sorry, I felt that it was not very convincing and he would not accept me saying that I had lost my respect and trust of him. He said that I should respect him no matter what. After the first revelation, whenever it was discussed he became defensive about it saying ‘I have said sorry what more do you want?’ He should have worked hard at restoring my trust and should have reformed his irresponsibility towards money, but he refused to accept this responsibility.

Looking back now I see that not telling me about his debt was a huge act of disrespect for me and total disregard towards my feelings. He has done nothing in 22 years to put this right, well not until recently when he said that he wanted out of the marriage. He then said he was very, very sorry for what he had done over this debt, and for the first time I accepted his apology, but too late. It felt like a very cruel act to wait until the marriage was over before he put this one issue right which had caused great pain and many arguments. It really felt as though it was premeditated to hurt me as much as possible. It certainly did not feel like it was his conscience bothering him.

I noticed some other strange things about him soon after the marriage. He used up all the toilet tissue, like over half a roll at a time. And when he went in the bath, a whole bar of soap would disappear. And when he put spread or jam on bread he really lathered it on. I suppose I noticed these things because I had had such a tough time managing as a single unemployed parent and his actions seemed like gross extravagance to me.

Looking back I can see that he was never in the least interested in my feelings. If I expressed any he would start to analyse them and if he could not find a reason for them according to him then he would deny them. But at the same time there was the act of a devoted husband and father. One thing I remember is that I was conscious of feeling I had entered a sense of feeling in a state of unreality. I knew pretty soon that I had made a mistake and thought that I should give it six months at least to see if it would improve. 22 years later I was still waiting. That sense of unreality and mental fog is now clearing, as I am getting him out of my life at last.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: My Story - Part Two - 03/26/04 09:27 PM


This is my first post here.

I work with a P. It is very clear to me now. At first I thought it was simple bullying but it's beyond that. The worst is that my boss didn't take my first report seriously and still seems unaware of the true destruction this one man is doing, to us and them (the boss).

When I first met the P I had that "hair standing on end" feeling. He was charming and quickly became the social organizer. In particular the P became good buddies with a few select people, including every secretary. At the same time he was kissing the bosses butt big time; talks, buying them lunch, doing them favors, etc.

When the boss was out of the area for long all hell broke loose. I called it the "wheel of misfortune". Things suddenly didn't work as before, stuff was missing, certain people were ridiculed but it was dismissed as "sarcastic wit", some people were challenged physically while others were made social outcasts by the P's inner circle. It was never like this before. I kept hearing the song "they smile in your face, all the time they want to take your place .... the backstabbers ...."

Soon I became a target for the P. I had to do some very technical work for him. I might add that it's two techniques I'd done for 8 and 12 years prior. The P questioned everything I did, it's quality and validity. He got his inner circle to believe that I was giving everyone "garbage" and I wasn't to be trusted. He accused me of mixing samples up and making stupid mistakes. Finally one day he confronted me and yelled an obsenity and punch a refrigerator behind me. After that physical threat I spoke to my REAL boss and described what happened. Of course, they expressed surprize that such a "nice guy" could do such a thing. I felt victimized again.

My boss spoke to the P. Later that day the P came storming through the workplace and said loud enough for me to hear "you ain't seen nothing yet!" Well, soon after that I found a piece of my equipment burning with an electrical fire. Before our group moved to a new location I was in a bad car accident on the way to work. The person who hit me had a last name one letter off from the P (coincidence or was I again a target and this was a message to shut up).

The P was climbing the work ladder, off to many other targets then and strange things kept happening. In his 8 years with us a friend got fired and accused of running a prostitution business out of our workplace, a long time Secretary left in anger after she was told by the P she wouldn't be offered a job when we moved, a woman who became best friends with him broke the relationship and then committed suicide, the bosses house got broken into, people have been threatened, I had my bag stolen and much more.

Recently I became aware of one more situation of harrassment. A guy who works for him has been ridiculed, told he disgusts the P, told he is worthless, etc. The guy went to HR to report what was happening. Ever since I have been hyper vigilant for retaliation against me since I have been friends with this new target. If the P thinks I know anything or told the target to go to HR I know I'll be in trouble. Guilt by association. I have learned to anticipate the worst.

I park my car near security cameras, leave the building through a different door, carry mace and have alerted the local Police on occassion.

My boss is very laidback and trusting, the perfect person to take advantage of when a P is around. I have worked for them for nearly 21 years but can't take much more of this. The P has aim at destroying our workplace. Our boss told me "I've done the best to isolate him." It's not enough. As long as I still have to do work for the P he has control.

In a recent work presentation the P said he believes "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger." I saw this as a HUGE threat to all of us. Again, I remind you that one co-worker and former friend of the P committed suicide. I guess she just wasn't strong enough in the P's mind, was she.

I shake with fear and anger nearly every day. I'm anger that this one P could do this to everyone and fear leaving and suffering more retaliation.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: My Story - Part Two - 03/27/04 06:12 AM

Hi Starflower

This man sounds horribly dangerous - whatever you decide to do, please be careful! Is it possible for you to change jobs? I know this is a pretty drastic action, and in some ways an admission of defeat, but its really hard to win against this type of person.

Other than that, the only thing I could suggest is that you use some of the information about P's from this site to try to raise awareness amongst your work colleagues of what is actually going on, so that you can present a united front against this man. But be careful - if you openly denounce him as a P, he is likely to make you look like a hysterical fool.

I've recently read some stuff about a relationship with a P being very similar to being involved in a cult - the same type of manipulation and mind games. It sounds almost like you have a cult on a minor scale there - the 'I am Mr P and I am marvellous' cult, with his inner circle as the brainwashed cult members. has loads of info about cults and cult-like relationships; also how to break away from them. May be worth looking at.

Take care

**edited to make link clickable,Di
Posted by: Dianne E.

Re: My Story - Part Two - 03/27/04 09:39 AM

Hi Starflower, welcome to the forum. It sounds like a horrible situation you are in. My guess is that if you move you would lose your retirement and other benefits?

Posted by: Anonymous

Re: My Story - Part Two - 03/27/04 07:54 PM

Thankfully I am vested in my retirement plan and can take that. As for benefits there really aren't any so no problem there. On my own I have built up a good chunk of funds and that will help. What really scares me about leaving is retaliation since the P is dependent on me for his work. If I go I shut him down and I know he has ways to punish people. I'm in a very vulnerable situation. My boss seems to think I have the upper hand but that's not true with a P. This weekend I've been thinking of backing up all data I have ever given the P and to secure samples that I still have. If the P has to take me down it will be big time. If he gets mad enough at me for any reason he could claim that I am responsible for his downfall by wasting his funding, "falsifying" data, misplacing key information, not getting samples to him in time therefore causing him to lose funding, etc. Stalling his career or hitting his money supply is what threatens him and causes him to lash out. Our P is already on watch of sorts to, that I have been made aware of. Besides the new target that went to HR another of his workers reported him to the Umbudsman of the University for harassing her and threatening behavior. Of all things this employee is now trying to buddy up with the P. The abused become the abuser sometimes as a means to survive I suppose. The P is away until the end of the month and it appears that he has assigned her to find a way to "take care" of or fire the target by getting him to make a big mistake. All this week the target was given questionable tasks. If somone else fires the target the P is off the hook and the crap doesn't hit him in the face. Someone else always takes the fall for him.
Posted by: Nan

Re: My Story - Part Two - 03/28/04 12:41 AM

Hi Starflower,

For what it's worth and on the off chance that you know someone who can read Danish or Swedish, I can tell you that a book about psychopathic bosses has just been published. I have checked, and the book has not been translated into English.

Title: Psykopatiske Chefer.
Author: Lars-Oluf Tunbraa
Publisher: Birmar

Other than that, you best chance for information is writing " Psychopathic Bosses" in Google or whatever Search engine you use. There's quite a bit of information.

Kind regards,

Posted by: Dianne E.

Re: My Story - Part Two - 03/29/04 10:03 AM

Hi Starflower, theses are from the Resource section here at the forum.

Corporate Psychopaths

Execs should be screened to weed out psychopaths: researcher

Aug. 29, 2002

Provided by: Canadian Press


ST. JOHN'S, Nfld. (CP) - At the conclusion of a sobering presentation littered with photos of Mafia hit men and sex offenders, Canadian researcher Robert Hare turns his attention to a little-known subset of psychopaths: the corporate kind.

Hare, a world-renowned expert on psychopaths, then makes the provocative suggestion that some of the recent, blue-chip accounting scandals could have been prevented if all chief executives were screened for psychopathic behaviours.

Please see below for some traits shared by psychopaths

"Why wouldn't we want to screen for them?" he said Wednesday after a speech to 150 members of the Canadian Police Association. "We screen . . . police, teachers. Why not people who are going to handle hundreds of billions of dollars?"

The problem is that corporate head hunters rely on resumes and standard face-to-face interviews, which reveal little about a candidate's psychological profile.

"The average psychopath has no trouble moving through that process," said Hare, who teaches at the University of British Columbia. "That's not even a hurdle."

Hare estimates that about one per cent of the population - that's about 300,000 people in Canada - are clinical psychopaths.

That's why he's working on something called the B-Scan, a rough checklist to help recruiters quickly spot psychopathic character traits among potential employees.

**source link no longer available

Snakes in suits and how to spot them

By Giles Whittell

Cold-blooded, remorseless egomaniacs in the boardroom are a hidden threat to your job, your savings and your investments. But our correspondent says the good news is that a new psychological test can flush them out

HERE ARE SOME facts: Andrew Fastow, formerly of Enron, stands accused by an American court of taking $30 million (£20 million) in kickbacks from the company while its shareholders lost more than $70 billion. Bernie Ebbers, formerly of WorldCom, is said to have arranged for his telecommunications firm to lend him $408 million as it slid towards bankruptcy. John Rigas, founder of the Adelphia cable TV giant, built himself a $13 million private golf course and, it is claimed, “borrowed” more than $3 billion from company accounts for his family while his shareholders saw $60 billion wiped from their investments. And here is a perfectly sober conclusion: if guilty, they are all psychopaths. Not killers. Not rapists. Not necessarily even criminals. Just cold-blooded, remorseless, egomaniacal psychopaths.

It’s a tricky word. Being a psychopath is not something that ordinary people aspire to, but neither does it have to involve face-eating cannibalism (Hannibal Lecter probably wasn’t a psychopath at all). The central qualification is to show no conscience; to fail to empathise.

Link to article no longer available

Corporate Psychopaths: article to follow

Corporate Psychopaths
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: My Story - Part Two - 04/03/04 12:49 PM

Thank you so much for these articles and words of advice from all. I know now that I'm not crazy in thinking this guy at work is indeed a P.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: My story - 04/11/04 01:47 PM

"Ladies if you see any of these attractive,intelligent, articulate, romantic, sexy, humorous, chivalrous guys,

I was just thinking about this the other day. The P and I hit it off the minute I met him. He was so funny, articulate, challenging. It was like he was thinking what I was thinking. He kept my mind spinning in a good way in the beginning and then the mask broke and he became evil and my mind started spinning the other direction. I often wonder if I will meet anybody I get along with so well again that is not a P. I am very guarded and would be scared to let my guard down with anybody that resembeled that P. Then I think it was all a fantasy, a relationship built on lies and deceit and it wasn't really what I thought it was anyways. So maybe that kinda freindship doesn't really exist it is just something the P. uses to manipulate and control people.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: My Story - Part Two - 04/11/04 09:33 PM

Hi Starflower,

When you get a chance you might want to read the book "Staulking the Soul" and read some articles about gaslighting. I just searched "gaslighting" on one of the search engines and found some good articles to read. I now know that gaslighting is a big part of what the office P. did in my old office. betterway
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: My story - 04/11/04 11:11 PM

Hi Betterway

Glad to get news of you and know that you are doing OK. I followed your posts quite a lot when I first started looking at the forum.

You said " I often wonder if I will meet anybody I get along with so well again that is not a P. I am very guarded and would be scared to let my guard down with anybody that resembeled that P."

I can relate to that so well. I don't think I ever will meet anyone who provides the mental challenge, the excitement, the feeling of rapport and the 'buzz that I felt with P. But in my saner moments I don't want to - I now prefer quiet and easy-going friendships with people who may not strike sparks but are easy to be with and trustworthy. As for shying away from people who remind you of the P - that is probably a good thing. There are a lot of people I shied away from without knowing why before I knew anything about P's. When I first found the forum, and Dr Hare's 'checklist', I went through a phase of 'checking' loads of people - whether I believed them to be P's or not - against the list - and the people I instinctively shy away from all scored high on it. So if someone doesn't feel right, go with your instincts and check them out before placing any trust in them. Of course, your instincts will sometimes be wrong - but they are often right.

All the best

Posted by: Anonymous

Re: My story - 04/13/04 08:03 AM


Absolutely! P's are skilled and crafty wordsmiths. What they understand, far too well, is that there doesn't have to be any true intent backing up what they say. We have often mentioned on this forum the "red flags" to watch out for. Within these red flags are certain buzzwords that the P's realize will get a rise out of us or lead us to act in a certain manner.
I mentioned in my last posting that another P had crossed my path recently. Good looking, charming, charismatic, provocative .... I noticed that many, many people were drawn to this person like a magnet. However, it didn't really hit me over the head until after many attempts to make a second date the P said to me "I'm really EXCITED about getting together with you again it's just that my schedule has been so busy"... I heard the hollow quality in his voice and I realized there was no true intent when he used the word "excited." What really got this particular P off was being the object of other peoples desire.
So watch out for those buzzwords.....anything that will make you feel special, unique, wanted... and ask yourself if the person using them demonstrates in any other manner that he/she really means what they say.

Posted by: Anonymous

Re: My story - 04/16/04 08:40 PM


I can't believe it! I rarely log on anymore and when I do I look for you and the dear friends that encouraged and supported me. . .and wow. . . here you are!!!

How are things going for you these days? It has been sometime since I last saw a post from you but I think of you often as I do many others that held me up through that traumatic time of my life. This forum was my life line and my life saver. How I appreciate Di (love you Di) for hosting this as well as all the people that encouraged and educated me on the schemes of the P. What an innocent I was. . .I never EVEN knew there was a LABEL for people like this.

NO CONSCIENCE. . .I didn't even KNOW there were people that were without one! ! !

How long has it been since you have had no contact with X-P? It has been several months for me. Making a clean break was very difficult me. Even with all the pain and demoralization. . .it just took what it took for me to finially accept that it was just what it was. . .nothing. It had no future or substance. It was just my fantasy, the dream I built in my head. Just writing this is difficult because at the time I thought it was so special, so wonderful. . .so EVERYTHING. I believed the lie, Betterway. I mean I REALLY BELIEVED THE LIE.

I have accepted it now. . .and the pain is now minimal. I mean REALLY minimal. When I speak of it now it is like I am describing something that happened to someone else. Like describing a movie without any emotional involvement.

That is progress for sure as for many years any thought of the betrayal would stir up the greatest emotion pain and heartbreak that I have ever experienced. (That's no dramatiation either)! For me. . .this is liberating. I am healing.

I am still not quite to the finish ("finished") line as far as being "pain free" . . .but. . .I am so close. I can tell. The experience has lost it's power to control my thoughts and actions anymore.

I have gone on and even though it took a lot out of me. . .I have learned something. Because of my pain and what I have been through, I have been able to reach out and help some others who are going through this very same thing. The beauty of it Betterway is this. . .I can TRULY feel their pain and tell them. . . if they won't quit. . .they will be okay. That's the truth too isn't it Betterway. We just had to GO THROUGH IT. . .to get to the other side. Whew. . .it's taken a long time for me but I KNOW that I KNOW that I'm going to be okay. . .I really am.

Post back. . .I have really missed you and looked for you here!


And a P.S. to all the others that remember and supported me. . .there is an appreciation in my heart to you all that words cannot express. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
With love!!
so finished
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: My story - 04/17/04 09:54 PM

Hi ((((finished)))),

Good to see you! I too don't check in too often, but when I do I am so glad to see the forum still going and wonderful sharing and healing happening.

It has been a year for me since I last initiated contact. There have been a couple chance meetings in which I say a simple "hi" and keep on going and sometimes he doesn't even get the "hi". When he sees me he always comes my way to talk as if everything is just wonderful as if I should not have any reason not to speak to him. The last few times I ran into him (about 2 months ago) I just turned around and walked away. That is all he deserves from me.

I still have my moments where I want to contact, but nothing like before. I just came out of a two week phase where I was thinking about him alot and even considered contacting, then I came here and I was rereading some of the posts and it helped me to realize contact is not an option. I had to feel the feelings but keep going in the direction I needed to go. Now when I remember the good times I remind myself of the psycho terror he put me through and then I get on with my life. No Contact has truly been a blessing for me.

I am so glad to hear you are doing better!!!

Posted by: Anonymous

Re: My story - 04/18/04 08:33 PM

>>>It has been a year for me since I last initiated contact.<<<


You know, the NO CONTACT rule is helpful in two ways ( for me anyway ). First is the break and second is that all those negative feelings don't get stirred up every time you see them.

I know at the beginning of trying the NO CONTACT, I would still see him in the business scene. Even if I was having a "good day". just seeing him would stir up all those negative emotions again. The fear, the anxiety, the rejection, the low self esteem and the WONDERING. What did "I" do wrong? Where did I go wrong? What did I say? What. . .oh what did I do wrong? The record in my head would start playing again, accusing myself for not being good enough in some way to keep P#2 happy and in my life. Then, I would have to go back to square one to get myself back on track again. Seeing him was ALWAYS, EVERYTIME a setback for me.

I can really say (for today anyway) that I am pretty emotionally detached from it all. Acceptance was a LONG, LONG, HARD journey for me.

A new life has just sorta "developed" for me. I have a new circle or friends and even professionally I have taken a sabatical to rediscover my "purpose" in life. For so many years, my life, thoughts, actions centered on P#2. On how to keep him in my life, to answer his calls, be what he wanted me to be, etc. Once I got pulled into his web, not only was I caught up in it all, I'm sorry to say, I WAS GLAD TO BE CAUGHT. Yuk. . .yuk. . .yuk.

For quite awhile I was focused and very sad about what I lost but now I am coming around to appreciate what I have gained. I know one thing Betterway. . .that WILL NOT HAPPEN AGAIN! I couldn't do another P. One RED FLAG will be enough AND I WILL listen to my friends. :-)

Gosh it is so good to hear from you Betterway!!!!!

Hopeful!! You out there. . .let us know how you are doing?

finished :-)

Posted by: Dianne E.

Re: My story - 05/27/04 01:45 PM

05/27/04 08:06 AM

My scarry P

Hi to you all!

I am new to this board and wanted to write down my story.
Though it's a different story that I have read on this forum.

It's been about a year that I met my P. At first, I wasn't that crazy about him, but still hang out with him.
About 1 week later, I found myself that I was very impressed by him, bacause he was very different than the other guys I have met in my life. He was very smart and had a great sence of humor. At first, he was sending me messages how much he loved me and wanted to spent his life with me. When first month was over, than I felt a change in his attitude. I couldn't define what, but I felt it. It seemed that the hype around me was over and now he was more to himself than me.

At the same time I repeatedly had nightmares about him. And somehow he was giving me creepes. As the time was passing by, he ignored me more and more and that made me a kinda a depending person.

Than I found out a some files on the computer that were pornographic. I was shocked, because he didn't seem the guy that would watch those kinda stuff.
Anyway, I felt that something was wrong with him, but I coun't point it out. The way he acted, the way he looked. He never showed any emotions. This guy just didn't have one, I realized later on.

After more than 6 months I ended up the relationship, bacause I was confused, and didn't know what to do. I just couldn't get in his head and had the feeling that he was kind of manipulating me, trying to see how far he could go.
When it was over, I felt relieved but still had a lots of questions, untill I saw a program about P's.
Now everything is clear. I was dealing with a P, who didn't had any feelings and acted one out in the beginning, wanted to fool me and I felt for it.

Well, one lesson I learned from this, is to defenitely listen to your inner voice. Now I can finally move on, bacause I know that there was no way I could have changed him. He made me love him and he hurted me, but I recognize the signals now. It won't happen to me for the second time (I hope)

Thnx for reading my story...

05/27/04 12:23 PM

Re: My scarry P [re: Angel]

Hi Angel

Reading your story is not so different - the lack of emotions, the something wrong - but not sure what it is etc. I think you have done very well to realise there was something wrong and get free so quickly - when you are trapped in the mesh for years then they can really mess up rational thinking.

Hope to hear more of your story and hope we can help answer any questions.

Good luck

Posted by: Dianne E.

Re: My story - 05/27/04 02:36 PM

what to do

i have come to acrossroads. he will be coming soon. should i trust him?(NOT!) so i have to get a restraining order before he does, but then again maybe he wont do that. but all he does is lie. i am desperate. he will lie to get it but if i make the move then the horrible mess begins. i can't take it God i want to run and hide. i cant do 8 more years of this hell. please God help me.

01/20/04 04:01 AM

Re: what to do

i am going to the court with my two youngest i have kept them from school. i am going to try to just get custody w/o the restraining order because of the risk of flight but i have no documentation to support it other than childrens word. It's unheard of but it works in the movies (joke) i dont think i will even get to put my foot in the door but i am going to do it on a wing and a prayer. time to put on my game face wish me luck

01/20/04 08:15 AM

Re: what to do [re: justagirl]

Hi JustaGirl

You are moving forward, even if only slowly! The more you take action and responsibility for making your life better, the more confidence it will give you. Is he violent? Has he been violent with the children? You don't mention what you are afraid of. Is there anywhere that you can get help and support? Friends? Relations? Local abused women's support groups?

You mention that you are afraid of a lot of things, including being a single Mum. Believe me, if you have been able to cope with a P and survive, you are equal to all of those things. It just takes time to find your feet.

You are in my prayers.

Posted by: Dianne E.

Re: My story - 09/01/04 06:03 PM

08/31/04 03:45 PM

My Story-Part Two

I have been reading the posts on this forum for the past few months after I discovered that the man I was involved with was a P. I want to share my story and I am sure that some of you will find similarities in your stories with your P. I no longer have any contact with my P and although it was difficult at first, many nights and days of crying, I am thankful that it ended when it did and that the only real damage done was my broken heart(although that was damage enough)

My involvement with my P began about 2 years ago, although I had known him as a friend over 30 years ago in high school. We re-connected through a reunion site where he had left his e-mail address.During our high school years, he lived across the street from me and we would hang out together at the high school radio station. On occassion, he would offer me a ride to school and I would accept and then sometimes we would hang out in his backyard and have conversations about everything from ghosts, seances to my boyfriend problems. He was such a willing listener and fascinating talker and I enjoyed his company, but there was no romantic feelings on my part.

Throughout the years, I would look through my yearbook and wonder what had happened to my friends and I would pause at the his picture and wonder where life had led him. When I saw his e-mail address on the reunion website, I sent an e-mail to him, asking him that exact question, never really expecting a response. But lo and behold, the next day there was a response from him.He told me that he was divorced after 22 years of marriage, had 5 kids, 2 of them died very young and was a grandfather of 6.He lived in the southwest and loved it. That was unfortunate since I still lived on the east coast so we wouldn't be seeing one another very soon. We exchanged e-mails every day for a few weeks and then I asked him if we could chat on line. He was very happy to set up an IM account and then every night, we would chat on line, sometimes in the afternoon after I got home from work too. He told me about his interesting life...he was a managing editor of a newspaper, a private investigator and installed alarm systems in casinos. During one of our on-line chats, I told him how I was negotiating a divorce settlement and that my husband was being very selfish about money. He offered to buy my house and then I would pay him some ridiculous amount per month to buy the house from him.(That never happened, thank goodness.) He later told me that he was a millionaire and that he wanted to make sure that I was not taking advantage of him because of his money. He even told me that his money was my money and if I ever needed any, just ask.(No, I didn't ask him for money, although he did pay for some of my trips to visit him) He also owned a twin engine plane and had my name painted on the side of it. He even sent me a picture of it through the wonders of the computer. Then during another one of our on-line chats, he told me that he had a confession to make. he said that all his friends told him not to tell me, that he might scare me away, but he didn't want to lose this chance. He lost it once in high school and now that he was being given a second chance, he didn't want to blow it. He told me that ever since high school that he had had a crush on me. He has thought about me constantly all these years, even in Vietnam when he was part of the Special Forces team. I had always been his first love the first time he saw me in a plaid skirt in high school. He told me that he never asked me out because he was too shy and why would I, this beautiful, wonderful young lady want to go out with a geek like him.I was flabberghasted! I had no idea that he had had feelings for me. We continued to chat and send daily e-mails. His e-mails were so romantic, told me that he would love me "forever and a day." He also played the guitar and had a lovely voice and would send me romantic songs as well as e-cards. I was falling in love with him. We also spoke daily on the phone and were anxious to see one another after all these years. He told me that he didn't want a committment from me until we met in person. That opportunity arrived when he said that he was coming to the east coast in October to tape a program about a murder he had investigated. The taping session was supposedly scheduled for a Sunday and he wanted me there by his side. That taping never took place..he told me that he would rather spend the time with me so he cancelled it. Throughout our year together, he would occassionally mention about how the show would call and want him to re-schedule the taping. Probably all lies.It seemed rather odd to me that this show would call when he just happened to be here with me.

Anyway, my friend came with me to meet him at the airport. I was too nervous and excited to drive. Being the romantic and sentimentalist that I am, I gave him 2 roses, one being yellow, representing our friendship and one red, representing our new found love. We had a fantastic weekend together. He was everything that I had ever wanted in a relationship..quite the gentleman. He always opened my car door and made me get back into the car if I opened it, took my family and my Mom out to this wonderful restaurant. He was so very charming and insisted upon holding my hand wherever we went, told me that this was his dream come true, to have me in his life.What woman wouldn't swoon over this man?(One who knew that it was too good to be true)That Saturday night we were in his hotel room and I knew that I loved him and wanted to be with him the rest of my life. He had already declared his love and devotion to me. When we had gotten to the car after picking him up from the airport, he gave me a silver ring with a garnet that he told me that he had especially made(with his own hands) for me. I immediately put it on my left ring finger and it fit exactly. How did he know? So I wanted to give him something that would represent the love and devotion I had for him. I gave him my high school ring and told him that if we had been in high school, this is what I would have given him, so I was giving it to him now to show him how much he means to me and how much I love him.(I have never seen that ring again.

I requested that he return it through e-mails, a letter and phone messages. I even sent him a stamped self-addressed envelope so all he had to do was put the ring in it and put it in a mailbox.This was one of the many proofs that I knew that I was dealing with an evil man. How dare he keep something that is sentimental to me??)

This is getting a bit too long so I will end here and continue another time. I thank you all for listening and I am thankful that this forum exists although I am sad that it has to exist, for all of us who have been victimized by a P.


09/01/04 02:59 PM

Re: My Story-Part Two [re: Butterfly]

Hi Butterfly

Welcome to the forum. So far your P sounds like prince charming - but I sense red flags are being waved. Hope you will continue your story when you can.

Best regards

Posted by: Dianne E.

Re: My story - 09/11/04 04:18 PM


09/11/04 03:35 PM

My Story-Part 2

I am sorry that it has taken me so long to get back to complete my story. With school starting and getting adjusted to the new schedule...I am sure that many of you know how it goes.

So to continue....that first weekend was wonderful.His son (unexpectedly) drove down from upstate to visit and we spent the day together. Even visited our old neighborhood and our alma mater. At the airport he proposed to me and I accepted. he promised me that he would propose properly as soon as my ex and I signed the settlement papers and he kept that promise many months later.December, I flew out to where he lived (or should I say his temporary home at a residential hotel since he told me that he had sold his house. He was planning on moving to my area as soon as he took care of some business) for his birthday.He picked me up from the airport in a limo!(the limo was just for that one ride. He had an inexpensive compact car and it didn't even have a CD player in it and this man claimed he was a millionaire? What was I thinking???)with a dozen red roses!It was a very romantic weekend, showed me the sights of his state, saw where he worked. One night we had champagne and popcorn in front of a fireplace while he played his guitar and sang love songs to me.:::sigh::: Christmas came and he came here on the 26th. He met my family and it was an enjoyable time.That following weekend, we drove upstate to visit his son and his family as well as one of his daughters and all 6 grandchildren!I suggested that we bring gifts or something, but he felt that it was unnecessary.Thought that was rather odd, but knowing who he is now, it wasn't strange at all.The visit was nice, but he seemed somewhat estranged from his kids and grandkids. He gave me the impression in our conversations that he was very close to his kids. His actions indicated otherwise. It was if he didn't know how to interact with them,but tried to make it seem as if he was close to them and knew what was going on in their lives for my benefit.Supposedly his kids loved me,so he told me after we left.We spent the rest of the week together doing things and spent New Year's Eve together at my friend's house.He left New Year's Day. January, we kept up with daily phone conversations and e-mails.He was involved in a murder trial as an expert witness so his move out here was delayed, didn't know how long the trial would take. I flew out to see him in February. Then in April, the trial was finished and he was on his way. He was driving out here, straight through, just stopping on the road to rest.It should take him about 2 1/2 days and he should be here on a Saturday. Well, at a rest stop, he was rear-ended by a little old lady and alot of damage was done to his car. He was in a remote town and so he would have to have the car towed and wait for parts. That took a few days since it was the weekend.Days went by, we spoke on the phone and finally he was on his way again, but he got a message from his Mom. His sister, in California had a brain aneurysm and they wanted him to be there. So off to California he flew.

Perhaps I should just get to the quick about all this. Alot of things he told me were lies after speaking with another woman he was involved with. This is where I should spend my energies on my story. I think by now, you see that he presented himself as a romantic to me,he presented himself exactly as I wanted him to be; always there for me, would call whenever I text him, he would call me back. He listened to my tales of woe about my soon to be ex and was very supportive. For 12 months I was in this fairytale romance...we even discussed writing our book how we met again after 30 years and fell in love.(Told me he had an agent and published a book. The published book was true, but he doesn't have an agent...published it through a vanity press and it was not well written from what I have read.)His mask started falling a long time ago, but I had blinders on and was somewhat in denial, but about a year after we met,there were too many unbelievable stories and he wasn't paying attention to me like he used to. The phone calls were less frequent, most weekends, I hardly heard from him anymore. There were excuses of why he didn't call,no signal(he had a cell phone, no home phone)why he couldn't come and visit or why I couldn't come visit him,meetings he had to attend, even after he had promised that we would see one another every two weeks. And then reality slapped me in the face and the first time I still wanted to believe what he said. I received an e-mail from a woman I had no idea of who she was. In the e-mail, she had said that she was able to break into this man's account and copied and pasted e-mails that he had sent. They were e-mails to other women, e-mails about meeting them, telling them that he loved them, was so happy that they were in his life and all signed with "Love,". I confronted him about the e-mails and he told me that it was a jealous woman who wanted to date him but he wouldn't because they worked in the same office and he also said that these e-mails happened shortly after he put my picture on his desk.That the e-mails were sent to everyone in his address book including his Mom and corporate headquarters and he had the FBI investigating it. I believed his story. I visited him after that e-mail and all seemed ok, not as wonderful as it once was.He seemed distant at times and would disappear for longer periods of time saying that he had to use the bathroom or get something to drink.(He was calling the other women on his cell phone) That weekend in October was the last time I saw him, although I didn't know it at the time. That weekend, we discussed how I would move out there in February and that he would be here when I talked with my ex and my sons about the move. He never came out for that weekend. The first weekend he couldn't come because he had an emergency meeting with his boss.The following weekend he had the flu and was too sick. I had the conversation with the boys and my ex anyway and after talking with them, decided that moving right now was not the best thing to do.I didn't hear from him all day sunday and left numerous phone messages. I was concerned since he had a heart condition and the flu could cause complications. I wanted to make sure he was ok, so I looked up a co-worker's name in the white pages and decided to call him. When I told the story and asked him to check up on him, he told me that he was a big boy and could take care of himself. And anyway, he was in Arizona.

I said Arizona? He is supposed to be here with me. The co-worker asked"Where's here?" I told him and he told me that I would have to discuss that with him. I decided to go on line and check my e-mail to see if he had left a message. There was a message, but not from him. It was from a different woman asking if I knew this man and if I was involved with him. She happened to be on line and IMed(instant messaged)me, asking the same questions. Apparently her friend was involved with him and she had some suspicions and hired a private investigator. She told me that he was in ARIZONA with YET another woman!She gave me the phone number of her friend and encouraged me to call her since her friend also needed confirmation that we were talking about the same man. That night I spent an hour talking with her.She met him through an internet dating service and he moved in 2 weeks ago and they were engaged.
Over the next few weeks, I talked with another woman he dated. A few months after that I was contacted by a woman who he had lived with for 3 years and who he was also engaged to. She had the most information about his life. While seeing me and living with her, he was married to his second wife. He told me that he was only married once. I am aware of at least 6 women he was involved with and was engaged to at least 3 of us. He met them all through different internet dating websites. I was the only one who had known him in person before, although I contacted him through the internet. I sometimes wonder if he knew that I would contact him by leaving his e-mail address on the website. Anyway, he continued the lie about the flu, leaving me a message Monday morning that he had stayed home and to call him on his cell phone.I didn't want to talk to him quite yet. The second message, he left he obviously had spoken to his co-worker and the other woman. He adamantly denied that he was in Arizona and that he didn't know who the woman was but he knew that I had spoken to her and to call him so we could discuss it. He mentioned the woman by name so how couldn't he have known her and how did he know that I had spoken to her???(The mask was off!)He left a third message putting the blame on me saying that I hadn't returned his calls, so he just wouldn't bother me anymore.How crazy was that!!! This man tells me that his lifelong dream was to have my love and me as his wife and then leaves a message that he won't bother me anymore?Without any sort of explanation?I would think that if he loved me so much, first of all he wouldn't have been involved with so many women and secondly, he would have been on the next plane to beg for my forgiveness!Later that afternoon I called him and he didn't realize it was me who was calling. He didn't sound like he had the flu.When he realized it was me all of a sudden he is saying "Hello? hello? anybody there?" as if he lost signal. Then he hung up and when I called back, I got his voicemail. We spoke a few times after that. I left a voicemail to wish him a Happy Birthday...sentimentalist that I am. He returned my call, thanking me saying that besides his son, I was the only one to call. He called me around the holidays to tell me to enjoy the holidays and then my last phone conversation was in January when I told him that I would like to talk about what had happened. He asked me if I wanted him to fly here and I told him that I wanted to fly to where he was. He explained how it was a long drive from the airport and I told him that I knew, I had researched it, but before we could make any firm plans, he lost signal and we never spoke again. For a few weeks, I left a message asking him to call. I know I am fortunate that he hasn't called or contacted me. I have accepted that I will never hear from him again and hope to never hear from him again. I had hoped, at first, that I could "save" him; that I was special enough, that he truly loved me, that I could change his ways and that we would live happily ever after. After researching Ps and reading this board, I have realized that that is never going to happen!It had been real difficult for me for a few months...all those broken promises, all those unfulfilled dreams. I felt as if my life was snatched away from me and that I would never be happy again. It has been about 10 months since his mask fully came off. I am happy in my life and have gained from this experience. I still think about him. I will always wonder why, knowing that I will probably never know.

I have benefitted from reading the forums here. I feel for all of you who are still involved with a P or have been involved with a P.I think it is extremely important that the public be aware of the Ps who walk among us. Thank you for listening and thank you to all who contribute to this forum.

Butterfly (new life)
Posted by: Dianne E.

Re: My story - 09/16/04 09:51 AM


09/12/04 01:31 AM

Re: My Story-Part 2 [re: Butterfly] Edit Reply

Dear Butterfly,

Thank you for writing about your experience.

Your long and sad story reads like a textbook case about the socially adept psychopath. As I was reading, I was sure that you would come to a part about how he borrowed money from you that he never paid back, or how he outright defrauded you with some far-out money scheme, but it seems he never did that, which would have been par for the course.

The P I knew, would go shopping with me and would for example, and in spite of the fact that I do not drink liquor, suggest buying a horribly expensive $100.00 bottle og Cognac or some very expensive wine. When we had to pay, he had always forgotten his wallet..." Honey, I have forgotten my wallet at home. I'll pay you the minute we get home." So I paid, but he never did and I was too embarrassed, too reticent not to mention, too stupid, to remind him of the money. He used this trick more than once. I kept thinking that he must simply have forgotten to pay me - I excused him. For every little thing that he gave me, I paid a hundred times over.

Although you must have been reeling with the discovery, you are fortunate that you relatively quickly discovered what he was up to. I know just how difficult it is to be confronted with the truth and I also understand why you initially wanted to believe his long and detailed explanation about how, what, where and why. It is very human to want to believe in a long cherished dream and no one is as good at "making dreams come true" than a socially adept P.

You seem to be healing from this emotionally draining experience. Your input is valuable and can help other people and I hope that you will continue to post here.

Take good care,

Posted by: Dianne E.

Re: My story - 09/16/04 09:58 AM

09/16/04 08:56 AM

just want to cry and cry and cry...

I will share my story later.
but this relationship ended in July..last week was when I made the discovey that he was either NPD..or some type soem type of there a difference?

anyway..I just can't seem to get on with my own recovery..I just want to stay in bed and hide....

Dianne E.
09/16/04 09:49 AM

Re: just want to cry and cry and cry... [re: talia]

Hi talia, welcome to the forum. There is a difference. The dividing line is a Psychopath doesn't have a conscience and is a mixed bag of N's etc.

I am moving this thread to the "My Story" section and will look forward to hearing more about your story when you feel comfortable.

Posted by: Nan

Re: My story - 09/16/04 12:05 PM

Hi Talia,

Welcome, I am glad you found us.

I know how tempting the stay-in-bed syndrome feels to you right this moment.

Get out from under the covers. Put on big, warm and cosy terry cloth rope. Make a soothing cup of tea, put it on a tray and take it into the living room. Find your favorite chair and cuddle up with the tea while watching the night sky. Watch the stars and remember your dreams.

There is life after the P. I promise you.

Warm thoughts,


Posted by: Anonymous

Re: My story - 09/17/04 05:10 PM

Yes, I was fortunate that he never borrowed money from me, but he did default on reimbursing me or paying for my divorce attorney that he so sincerely said that he would do. There were times when I would book a flight to see him and put it on my credit card. He told me that he would reimburse me, but I never saw the money. I wouldn't bring it up too often, I trusted that he would pay me, but when I did, he would casually ask what the amount was and said that he would get the money out right away. He also volunteered to pay my divorce attorney(I was already in the process of getting a divorce, so I wasn't getting a divorce in order to be with the P)My lawyer even met him once and the P gave him his business card and told my lawyer to send the bill to him. My lawyer said that he would do whatever I told him to do. Later, after the mask was removed, I spoke with my lawyer and he told me that he felt there just wasn't something right about the man. He never expected him to pay. Unfortunately, since I trusted this P so much and he told me that I would never have to worry about money again, I settled for less in my divorce settlement than what I could have gotten. Fortunately, my lawyer still was looking out for my best interests and convinced me to still make sure that I could live with the settlement, financially, no matter what happened with this man. I am thankful for that. Although I was not taken for money, one of the women that he had lived with for 3 years was. The woman and I began corresponding through e-mails after I had my last conversation with the P back in January. Last summer, she had gotten him a credit card in his name, but under her account with the intention of marrying soon and combining all their assets. Well this P proceeded to use the credit card to entertain his women, myself included. Hotel rooms, restaurant bills, gifts for me,and airfare to the tune of over $20,000. She has sued him and won a judgement in her favor, but he has repeatedly ignored any legal papers, phone calls or letters sent to him. He also moved to another state, so she has hired a lawyer from that state to pursue the matter. I wish her luck in collecting, but he seems to get away with everything.
Part of the reason why I think that I have handled this emotional experience so well has been the support of my 4 sons, my Mom and my friends. I also believe that they are part of the reason why this P was unmasked so quickly in addition to the e-mails from the other women. I think the P may have seen that his mask was unraveling under the scrutiny of my family and especially my best friend. Although I wanted to believe in his stories, they would question him and me and made me see how there were so many inconsistencies and lies. I am so grateful for my family and friends being there for me when I needed them the most.
My life is good. I try to follow the attitude of making the best of the situation. My one year with the P was certainly a learning experience and it was fun in alot of ways. I visited places I had never been before and for a while there, was treated like a Princess,(he even called me Princess) but as we know all fairytales come to an end, but this one did not end "happily ever after."
I feel for those of you who are or who were involved with a P who is physically,emotionally and/or verbally abusive. I hope that you gain strength and support from this forum. I hope that someday there is more awareness of the danger of the Ps who live among us.
Posted by: Dianne E.

Re: My story - 09/29/04 08:06 PM

09/29/04 06:59 PM

I am new here . . .

Hi there.....I may have stumbled on a website that can help me. I think I am married to a psychopath. He had a terribly abusive father and both verbal and physical abuse is a part of our marriage. He is from the UK and we have had some help with this, but only some community marriage counselling and he also went to a very silly psychotherapist who told him violence is a part of intimacy, (both in the UK). In 1998 I had a completely non-related accident and have been unwell since. I have been diagnosed with post-concussional syndrome and post-traumatic fibromyalgia and have had some cognitive issues to deal with. I have had much healing however and even with the issues I deal with - I am positive. I am an ordained minister and a teacher/writer. I have taught personal development and various aspects of spirituality internationally and at colleges. I am a meditator with an uncommon lack of attachment in my life. I am well educated and have done extensive travel. That is me.....then there is my husband.....also a charming and intelligent person.......he slips, seemingly unrealised by him, into very dark times. During these times he is mean and not only heartless, I do not think he is at all mindful of it happening. Oddly enough, the cycles do seem to (often) coinside with a full moon. He usually only becomes verbally abusive. He was physically abusive in two relationships before ours. I have found remarkable tools for addressing the verbal abuse. We have shortened the verbally abusive cycles considerably. However, in the first months of our marriage,(we were friends for three years before we married and I did not see signs of psychopathic behaviour before we were married), he suddenly became violent. There were three separate incidences of voilence toward me in a 6th month period. This was followed by the counselling, etc, we went through as mentioned above. It was more our spirituality with a strong Eastern influences (Buddhism, Reiki and other aspects), that helped to heal the patterns. I have a background in behavioural sciences and this has helped. We have experienced, both together and separatly, a myriad of spiritual happenings that have helped. I know he is intent upon healing. But in the midst of one of these cycles, none of that matters. I do not matter. I become his target. In the last four months, it has turned voilent again and this on top of much success in our lives. Now, again, after six years of no voilence, this is heartbreaking.

He and I have talked about this quite a lot. He says he does not have remorse and does not care when in the midst of it. He does not seem to care for days or possibly weeks following. He does not react positively to comments and situations which he normally would. Years later, he does not see it as wrong, even though anyone else doing it to their partner, would be an "idiot". It seems as if one day its all forgotten and he is back to "normal". He does not have a conscious about it. He can wistle like a song.....and the only time he wistles is during one of these periods! It is sad though amazing.

I think he shut part of his development off very early. He has no innner child, his play is skydiving. He also very much enjoys voilent video games.

In writing it is my hope to learn somethings here and to find support. Thanks for reading this. My best, Shunyata
Posted by: Dianne E.

Re: My story - 09/29/04 08:08 PM

Hi Shunyata, welcome to the forum. I hope you will find the answers to the questions you have.

I have combined your therapy thread with an existing one and bumped it up so that you can read what Dr. Hare has to say about the effects of therapy.

Best Wishes,

Posted by: Nan

Re: My story - 09/30/04 01:51 AM

Hi Shunyata,

Welcome to the forum.

Off hand, I would say that the symptoms you describe sound like some form of psychopathy or antisocial behaviour. The odd part is the fact that his episodes are few and very far between. You write that the first three years you knew each other, you saw NO behaviour that indicated anything abnormal. Were you then aware of the physical abuse issues in his other relationships? Did these happen during the period when you were friends? Do you know?

Is there any way that you can contact these women? It could be very helpful both to you and to them if could gently discuss your husbands past and present behaviour. Helful to you, because it may give you important clues, and very helpful to them, because they may wery well never have understood what happened and why. Presupposing that your husband is a psychopath, his former partners may still be in a state because they may never have understood what kind of person they were up against.

Then three months into the marriage he became abusive and violent. Three months appear to be the length of time that many, though not all, psychopaths can maintain the Mask of Sanity.

How long have you been married and how often does he enter into these negative cycles?

Have you read Robert Hare's book, Without Conscience. He describes many different aspects of psychopathy. He also suggests that a diagnosis cannot be made without thorough testing by a psychiatrist.

However, it sounds as though you must have read some books or articles on the subject. This is important, because it provides understanding and allows for knowledge of a state of mind, whose origin is still poorly understood. So far, there is no known cure and, as you write, it also seems that therapy can worsen the condition.

The above is merely preamble for the real problem for you is how to cope with your husband when he is in one of his negative cycles. You write that you, "have found remarkable tools for addressing the verbal abuse."

That is not easy to do. Can you explain what these tools are and how it helps you or your husband? Knowing what works for you could be very helpful to other posters.

What kind of support are you getting from your family and your friends? One of our posters, TOCATTA, have written a very interesting article on the subject of support or rather the lack of it. She describes how difficult it is to adequately explain to non-victims why a psychopath or Covert Aggressive (CA, her label of choice, can make you feel like Alice in upside down Wonderland.

You mention your spirituality:

"It was more our spirituality with a strong Eastern influences (Buddhism, Reiki and other aspects),..."

I know a little about Tibetan Buddhism and Reiki. I have also practiced Aikido for many years The other aspects you mention "could" be yoga. I am guessing! As you may be aware, there are different types of yoga. One advanced type is Kundalini yoga. I am not personally familiar with Kundalini yoga. I do know that practising this specific type of yoga "can" produce psychotic episodes if the person is not suffciently clear and balanced or helped by a teacher who is properly tuned into the student. I merely mention this for your consideration. So-called recreational drugs of any kind, as well as certain types of psychotropic medications can also produce psychotic episodes.

While still not conclusive, CURRENT research indicate that psychopathy could be a blend of nature and nurture. That each one by itself is not enough to produce psychopathy. It may be genetic but that alone is not thought to be the decisive factor. A negative social childhood environment may be the trigger IF the person has a genetic predisposition. It is still very speculative! As you may be aware, psychiatry is ever changing its paradigms and what was thought to be true fifty years ago, is no longer valid.

It is important to be aware that there is no doubt that psychopaths exists and that their behaviour cause untold pain and suffering to the world around them. They, however, appear very little, if at all affected, by he pandemonium they create. They seem blissfully unaware of ever having behaved in a fashion that is detrimental to others. When told, they feel no remorse and are inclined to blame the other for the negative consequences. They do not see or observe cause and effect and it is never their fault.

Please take care and write again.



Posted by: Anonymous

Re: My story - 09/30/04 07:09 AM



I am impressed by how mindfully you are dealing with your situation through these different approaches and strategies. I hope you will find much support from this forum, but I sense you have much to contribute too. I look forward to your future posts.

Please could you elaborate on this statement?:

“I am a meditator with an uncommon lack of attachment in my life.”

Regarding your references to the UK(!):

Given the way you describe you husband, I would be more inclined to believe that his thinking has contorted or taken out of context what the psychologist said to him, than that a qualified psychologist would state emphatically that “violence is a part of intimacy”.

It is accepted in the fields of psychiatry and psychology that intimacy elicits violence in some individuals. Of course you can carelessly contract that to ‘Intimacy elicits violence.’ which said another way = ‘Violence is a part of intimacy.’.

Of course you could be right and this could be a malpracticing psychologist, but I can think of two explanations as to why your husband might think this way:

1) such thinking in itself supports that thought disorders might be present ~ it is not true and so since he evidently believes it, it is also possibly a delusion.
2) Psychopathic behaviour responds negatively to therapy – this could be a good example.

In saying all of this, I should point out that I am English (LOL), and I do not know of any official evidence to suggest that psychologists in the UK are anymore prone to malpractice than in other countries.

When things started to deteriorate with my P I also projected the blame on the cultural difference between us. Now, other than that Axis 1 disorders (which includes delusion disorders and schizophrenia) are more prevalent in immigrant populations, I do not think that our different cultures explain the dynamics that we have experienced.

I associate greatly with your descriptions of your cycles, their irregularity, and this comment "During these times he is mean and not only heartless, I do not think he is at all mindful of it happening". I have experience something very similar with my P in that the psychopathic element seems to be intermittent, and subconcious (he is not aware he has acted psychopathically, and when he is psychopathic, he is not aware that he has ever been nice).

Originally I was blinkered by the abuse and the threat of violence and believed him to be a P, now I think Narcissistic Personality Disorder has progressed via splits in his personality into Schizophrenia, with him acting psychopathically and psychotically in his black moods better explains what has been afflicting our relationship.

Because of the similarities between our experiences Shunyata (I will go into detail if you request me to) , if you have not done so, I suggest you start with investigating Schizophrenia and Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

I found R.D. Laing’s, “The Divided Self” very helpful in relating to what was happening to P and how he was treating me.

I have also found Maggie Scarf’s work on intimate partners very informative.

Best regards

Posted by: Dianne E.

Re: My story - 10/19/04 10:35 AM

10/19/04 06:29 AM

Hello I am new and I'm glad I found this site. My story, well, it's finally starting to sink in. I met a "wonderful" man on the internet, several years after an abusive divorce and several failed relationships. I shared with him how I had been lied to, manipulated before, and he was so willing to listen because he too had been hurt before, and was coming out of a bad marriage in which he had never felt loved at all in his life. He had a "troubled" childhood, never had any friends, had low self-esteem and because he was in the military, his ex wife, who was the only woman who had ever agreed to date him by the way - had taken a chance on marrying him but got tired of following him every place so he had given up on love. He believed in "old fashioned" values, love, romance and relationships.

We began a six month period of seeing each other every day, he was there for me - whatever I needed he did it. Called every day, but - he worked nights, he was in the military but he had a cell phone and lived with his Aunt, or so he says - I never visited there which should have been my first clue. Then, because he was about to go to Korea, he began staying with me the last six weeks beforehand. I didn't question it, but I thought it strange that he didn't want me to take him to the airport the morning of his departure. "It was too upsetting". He called me once he arrived and we kept up our long distance relationship the whole time he was gone. Long letters, email, and he came home to visit me for a week. Now, while he was gone, for some reason he made up some lie that he wanted to tell me before he left that he had a "sex change operation" - (yes I know it's weird), that he had really been born a girl and changed into a man. So I was really hurt and upset for about two weeks. Then he came back and said he made the whole thing up because he was hurt that he found out about a previous boyfriend I had. I told him he had mental problems and needed help. He agreed to counseling, begged my forgiveness and came home to visit me - getting on his knees - the whole work. Talked about marriage, the future - all the things I wanted to hear. I should have gotten a clue but didn't. He promised the assignment to Korea was 1 year and he'd be back, we'd get married, no more lies he'd be true blue and so forth.

Well, the year was up, and all of a sudden, he got assigned to "Qatar". He was so, so upset because it was going to be to a "remote" location, in a secret facility because of the type of work he does. But, we'd still be able to keep in touch, email each other and the deployment would only be for six months. He came home for a short visit and went off to supposedly Qatar. I kept asking for a mailing address but, due to "secret" issues and what with the war and all - he couldn't give it out. Months passed and I asked about the return. Well, with the war escalating, he got extended six more months. He came home for a short visit around Christmas time. Meanwhile, he called me every weekend, always on a Sunday. I asked why not Friday, Saturday? It seems he's working 24 hours a day and the phone lines are so long. Always telling me how much he loves me, we are going to be together, we are getting married after he comes home, I am the only one. I spent my weekends sitting here, tied to the phone or the internet. I kept asking - is it time to move on - he'd say no, I still love you, you are my life, I am your man - so forth. Well, it's been a year and a half. He said he'd be back in August. But August came and he said he got extended and didn't know when he'd be back, but he "retires" from the military in July 2005 and he will definitely be back in January. I was so upset and asked him are you sure you are not close by?

Everytime he calls, caller ID said he's in Chicago, but he says it's the calling card location that they use. He has an Arizona driver's license, but when I asked him about it, he says it's because he has too many tickets to get one in the state in which we resided. Around Valentine's day, I happenned to do a search of a dating site and found his screen name. It showed he was searching for someone in the Arizona area. When I asked him about it and I was pretty upset, he claimed that it was an old ad, he didn't know why it was there, etc. Like a fool, I believed him. Meanwhile, still no address, more stores of love, the future and so on, but no date of return. Finally, a few months ago, he mentioned that he wasn't being fair to me to keep this relationship going on so long and if I wanted to move on he understood. I was like.."why now, if you're coming back", then he said he overheard someone in the "tent" saying that but he didn't really want to end things, still loved me. Three weeks later, he calls me and tells me he's going to Iraq! He said he'd be there for 3 weeks, that communication would be the same, he'd still email me, still call. I said, well it sounds like you are not coming back and perhaps I should move on. He said - absolutely not. I still love you, I am coming back, nothing will stop me, blah, blah. Well, it has been 3-1/2 weeks, and I have not heard one word from him. I feel like the world's biggest fool.

I have searched every website, and nothing. I called private investigators and they made me feel stupid because without a social security number, they can't trace anything. I went to see a psychologist and talked to her. She said he sounds like a sociopath and I should check him out. I got a little more industrious and searched military bases in Arizona. I called one and asked for him. Sure enough - they told me "he's on leave and will be back on Monday!" I wanted to scream, I am angry. It's as if I don't even know him. What's worse is, he has a key to my home - I live in a different state, he knows everything about ME and I obviously know nothing about HIM. I have written dozens of emails - everyday thinking he would respond and he has not written one word to me. At first they were the usual, but now they are angry. His lies - he met my family - they all thought he was wonderful, that we were getting married, what do I say to people? I feel humiliated, but I am more angry. I know I have to change my locks, but part of me wants to believe that it's just not true.

To see him and meet him - you would not believe it! I wonder how I can ever, ever believe or love another man again. I want to, but I am so burned. I gave him everything. To his credit - he never asked for money, but my trust, my love. What is wrong with me? Why can't I get it right?
Posted by: recovery

Re: My story - 10/19/04 01:07 PM

Hi Jazzyb

Welcome and hello. Wow the story is always so familiar - the techniques - the blatant lies etc etc. First I would advise that you do change your locks - just a precaution to ensure your peace of mind. Then I would advise you to hold a 'I've escaped from a P Party' because you are lucky that you did not get married, you don't have his child, he did not get you into debt or into any frauds or cons. i know that while the hurt and anger burns inside it is a wee bit difficult to celebrate - but do try.

Trusting again is another issue - that we all have to learn, and I have not mastered this yet. But we can't let them win as that would be the final straw. You sound intelligent, kind, hard working and you deserve better - much better. I would not bother doing any more investigating or confronting - there is no reality for a P - only whatever fantasy they have conjured up - so you can never get to a truth about them - it is like walking on shifting sands. Remember it was because you are nice and intelligent and normal that you were a target. Forget him, try and learn from the experience and vent your anger in posts on this forum. We can listen and maybe help. Sorry I have been so blunt -I hope you don't mind?

Best of luck

Posted by: Anonymous

Re: My story - 10/19/04 05:59 PM

Thank you for responding and no I don't mind you being blunt. I know that I need to move forward, in fact I am planning a vacation for my birthday with friends in a few weeks. You know, this hurts, but in a way it is a blessing in disguise because what if I HAD married him? I was beginning to question things anyway, because things just weren't feeling right. In fact, he even mentioned that if he got assigned to "Arizona" before he retired, he planned to live there and "commute" home on weekends and holidays until we could actually be together! He didn't want me to have to move away and leave my career for the last 6 months of his duty assignment. Looking back, it's all so clear now. Red flags all over the place. Yes - I think I will give my internet investigations a break! I could use some sleep instead of obsessing over where, who, what? It's not doing me any good and I just feel sick inside. I have a mixture of emotions - mostly anger. The pain is lessening, although I'm sure that if I confronted him, it would be so upsetting. Yet, at the same time it's hard not to think of all he said and pretended to be. It's just hard to understand why they do this to us. What is ironic, is that he always told me that his brother did not speak to him and that he had been told by his brother that he "destroyed everything he touched". He always said it hurt him and when I asked him why his brother felt that way about him the only answer he gave me was because of things he said that he did when he was growing up. Naturally I was blinded and just figured it was childhood sibling rivalry. Really, I don't want to mourn him, because in a way - I'm finally free of the waiting. But I did believe I had a future with someone. I was convinced that I had finally found someone who loved me. He listened to me, we laughed together at things, he was attentive. It's just scary not knowing who the heck he really is. I think the idea of a celebration is a good idea. The only thing is that I just feel too humiliated to tell people what happenned just yet..especially all the ones who are so "worried" about him - fighting in the war in Iraq and all! I just feel embarassed. I wonder if other women who felt this way had any issues moving past this stage and just telling people what had occurred? It's like I'm trying to protect HIS image, rather than seeking the support from friends who would want to nail him if they knew what he did!
Posted by: recovery

Re: My story - 10/20/04 02:06 AM

Hi Jazzyb

Don't worry about telling people. You need to tell people only what you want to tell them when you want to. I had no choice - I had to find out what was going on and from everyone I knew as we were in a very messy divorce/child custody case. It is devastating finding out about a P, but so much worse when it is played out in court with the P still rewriting the past as it suited him!

Your friends who have never experienced a P first hand will find it dificult to understand, just as you do, but they will also be learning. The hardest thing is that there are no reasons - the P just does what he does to get what he wants at the time.

I hope you have got to the worst - because then you know you can start putting it behind you. I know it it took several months of revelations in my case.

Best of luck


Posted by: Anonymous

Re: My story - 10/20/04 04:58 AM

Welcome Jazzyb,

I've just downloaded some thoughts on obsessing about Ps to Sadwiser, I think they are also valid here.

Ps and conmen, of which I think yours could also be one, sometimes assume fake identities. My P started doing this 18 months ago. He pretended to be an ex-Marine who got a US passport for fighting in the Gulf War... it got him a lot of interest with women, it taps into our rescuer fantasies. I know that my P used this fake personality so much that he eventually wasn't sure if it was true or not.

I think your P also sounds like he could be making up scenarios so far fetched that his sanity is questionable.

There's nothing shameful in sensibly reassessing your situation upon realising that someone you thought you had a future with has mental issues that he is not prepared to address. I think that's responsible not shameful, especially since the worry seems to be affecting you greatly. We all have a responsibility to take care of ourselves first, if you are in a mess you are no help to anyone.

If he is really in the military, they will intervene and help him.

I can only imagine how devastated you must feel Jazzyb... this guy really sounds like he has been down right callous to you.

Hang in here with us Jazzyb.

Kind regards

Posted by: Nan

Re: My story - 10/20/04 07:23 AM

Dear Jazzyp,

A somewhat belated Welcome to the forum!

I can only tell you how sorry I am that you were caught by this man. Your story reads almost like a textbook case of the clever con man.

I too met the P I knew in a forum albeit not a dating forum.
He had the same long and convoluted stories of having served in the military at various hot points across the world. He too lied about who he was, he too was the victim of this, that and the other thing and there was no end to the stories that even included having worked for Intelligence.

Yes, of course, like the P you met, this was a secret and so I should not ask him questions about it. He was paranoid about having his picture taken and explained his nervousness about it with the (fact?) that it was an old thing from his Intelligence days, where he could not risk that the other side found him.

At this point, I would like to mention that contrary to what one might suppose from the above, I have been tested to have a slightly above average intelligence <chuckle>. I will never know or truly understand how I fell for all these incredible stories.

Like the P you met, the P I knew was initially the kindests, most understanding man I had ever met. And yes, he too had had a bad marriage that had marred his ability to trust....

When you start reading the many different stories here, there are all more or less the same, as if made from the same film script just with diferent actors and actresses.

Please do NOT blame yourself. I too was ashamed of myself until I found this place. You could not have got this "right" no matter what you had done. You were simply in the wrong place at the wrong time and the man found you and used you for his own entertainment.

In time, you will heal and in time you will hopefully realise that the world is filled with caring, loving and compassionate men and women.

Please keep posting.

Take care,


Posted by: Anonymous

Re: My story - 11/06/04 09:32 PM

WOW. I have read the follow on posts responding to my additions to this site. I sat here thinking of a way to respong and I just kept saying that is what I wrote!

Its been a while since I posted. I have had the flu. Thank you for taking the time to reply - to all that did. It seems amazing to me that I have found some like minds here. Even with wonderful friends in my life, my outlets seem few to discuss these issues.

I have a few busy days ahead catching up with things following being down with the flu. I want to compose a reply for you and I will do so very soon. In the mean time, I wanted to tell you I have read your words and appreciate them very much. I will write more soon. Thank you!
Posted by: Dianne E.

Re: My story - 12/12/04 07:50 PM

12/09/04 01:38 AM

I joined this forum the other day after running a search for help and i have been absolutley stuck to the threads ever since.

Ok - My story so far. I met my partner ( whom I now know to be a sociopath ) just under three years ago through a friend whos husband was working for him , he was tall dark good looking a cliche i know but true none the less.I was sat in my friends kitchen the first time i ever saw him and he popped in out the blue to do some business .I had my then 2 year old daughter with me, my marriage of ten years had desolved a year earlier and i was starting with this friends help to rebuild my life. He seemed totally smiten with my daughter from the miniute he saw her and was exceptionally charming and plesant towards me.
I grinned like a teenager - no one had made me feel like that for a long time .I was an attractive girl but my confidance was still shattered and it was a huge ego boost to think this apparently goodlooking succseful business man might be interested in me.

However as he left my friend said ...dont even think about it hes bad news. When i questioned her and asked her to elabroate she had heard lots of different rumours from him being gay to him being a child molester. Naturally I was shocked and gave it little thought from then on ..until one day ..the same week my friend and i and her husband were all at my house and this man drew up outside in a suit ....i again was quite taken aback i had no idea he knew where i lived . he had apparently come to see my friends hubby and finding him not at home came to me assuming he would be there. Once again dispite all thier warnings the feelings swept ov er me as he appeared to ficus his talk towards me and gave my daughter some money for some sweets ...he then took off again only to return laterwhen i was alone that afternoon asking about some info id promised to give him with reguards computer's -he asked if he could pop back tonight for it i said fine...and then he asked if it was ok to bring some food with him as he would be hungry when he finished work.i found it a little odd but agreed. He ended up staying the night and we spoke of everything ..includeing the accusation he was a child molester ..plausably he launced into a fine detailed story about his ex partner and a vengance thing...her trying to destroy his life with false allegations that he was unable to have contact now with his own daughter and was purseing a lengthy court battle with the mother. I didnt disbelive him.

The following couple of months i was on cloud 9 , he loved me! he was charming and treated me like a princess - i was used to being short of money and he would throw it at me i took him to meet my family absolutley certain they would feel the same about him but they were unsually quite though not hostile ...apparently he used toi go there a fair bit alone and my dad found his questioning over personal issues ( my dads insurances , pensions ect) a bit disturbing at such an early stage of aquaintance. I made excuses for him saying it was just his way..he was very forthright and they were civil and polite from then on but still remnained untrusting of him .I was dissapointed but brushed it off.

We began clashing over my little girl he adored however my tweo boys ( aged 5 and 7 ) he had little patence with and in my mind was often overly harsh in his language..he appeared to speak to them as if they were miniture adults and have no idea how to come down to thier level it worried me a lot. One time during a furious row with him i told him my children would always come frist ...which i belive is totally natural he said "your a fool they dont respect you and its because you use child centered parenting always thinking of them and not you" but before he came along we were fine..I tried to bite my tongue when he was harsh and he never hit them so i figured maybe it was just my natural protective instincts kicking in and i was being over sensitive, but he seemed to delight in humiliation with them often belittleing them in front of thier friends..i found it harder and harder to cope.

I met someone else and tried to break it off with the (P) ...he wouldnt let it go and eventually succseeded in ruining the relationship ...he played the carrers role then..stayed with me through the pain i felt at loseing the an id got close to ....turned -nice- again and gave me the feelings id had when we first met..he began to get highly religious and would ask me to pray ...and read the bible with him...this was all bizare to me but with hindsight i was in the midst of a breakdown at that point and complied. I gave up my own house and moved into his.Things soon changed back for the worse ..only much worse than before. I felt trapped felt i had burnt my bridges he wouldbe sullen and uncareing spend his time out and about and i would be stuck there cleaning his house ..he would call me lazy and insult me contuinously. Until evcentually i tried a half hearted attemtpt to take an overdose. In bed after i had taken the tablest i calmly told him...he looked at me and groaned as if i was just an incovneniance ..he then cuddled meas i shivered with fear abot what the next hours would bring...then stunningly he tried to get sexual with me...that part will stay in my mind i lay there potentially dying he tried to have sex with me...and he did with no concent on my part i cried all through the experiance.

I didnt die obviously...and things went right back to normal.I felt unloved - i didnt trust him though i never had anything specific to pin on him because he was always so evasive..i just didnt trust him sexually of in anyway infact. I planned escape..phoned my family and broke my silence...i planned a removal truck while he was at work...and was to stay with my family until i could get rehoused.

The escape was put on hold as my pervious divorce came to the forefront of things and i actually managed to get a house that seemed perfect and i told him i was moving back ( but not calling the relationship off ) i didnt have the guts ..i figured once i had my own security back it would be easier...but once again it changed and he was back to being a great person....really great ..we got on...he still had issue with the boys and favoured my girl but he had calmed on it lots. I asked my family for my sake to be civil and give him another change ..they bit thier tongues and did it.

this brings me up to the present...last weekend i found out by accident my best friend ( who had been living with us all the time at his house and working for me ( i started my own business in computing there )had in the past 6 months been having sexual encounters with him..i was stunned ..hed always treated her terribly ....humiliated her belittled her called her every name under the sun i even witnessed him hit her and throw her out on one occation into the street crying and my eyes he loathed her and put up with her for me.I know she is an insecure person...desperate to be loved like most of us ...had depression problems and a big weight problem ( 19stone ).He would stay at his own house on a wednesday night after playing basketball because it was late and didnt fancy the drive.I was fine with that it gave me a chance to have some space.But i was worried ..i knew dispite his nastiness towards her she had confessed many months before of being attracted to distrust of him heightened my feelings ..and i approached him and asked if she had ever tried anything on...he said he would ask her each wednesday night to rub his feet as they ached but that was it ..I asked him to not do that again....we rowed and he said i was being pathetic...she was revolting ect ect...none the less he stopped staying there.

It turns on on several occastions spanning a 6 month persiod he was unfailthful with her ..never full sex but oral..and he never touched her. When confronted he denied it and took great offnece..but i knew she was telling the truth ..I eventually gave him so much evidance he had to admit it but even when he did he shrugged and said "i hated her i just wanted to abuse her was nothing." she on the other hand had fallen for him and was mortified he phoned her telling her he loathed her and had used her and it had been boreing.
I told him to go ....he phoned up crying..i stuck to my words...he screamed shouted..threatened me with all manner of things.
The she phoned me ( id forgiven her because i knew her motives were at least pure ...i felt betrayed of course but she wasnt to blame not really ) and said he had offered to take her to the house to collect her things ..immediatley all my resolve of finishing with him took a back seat and all i felt was pure anger and jealousy..i could picture them spending the night there alone together laughing at me and i couldnt handle it ..he said he hated her but was he telling the truth.I phoned him up immediatly ( i know i played right into his hands now because that was the reactions he had hoped for ) and told him if he wanted me back he wouldnt ever go near her again..infact i said " ojk fine ...pick her up tonight but dont take her to get her things bring her here...and we can all talk

so we did ..

she told her side ..he told him...and somewhere inbetween lies the truth he wouldnt admit to many things i know shes beeing truthful about so i know he still lies but to prevent the pain of thinking of them together ( it made me physiclaly sick ) i kept him there and sent her off

the next day ( today ) what on earth have i done...

I can think of a million reasons why i KNOW that i know that i know this man is a sociopath...he matches every red flag going...and i cannot give all the details as it would end up being a novel but here i am and my question is when hes nice....its so so so there -any- cure...could he ever change? if not please where do i ever find the courage to get him away from me im so scared of the aftermath and what might happen.


Dianne E.
12/09/04 08:57 AM
Hi knowingbut,

Your situation sounds very sad and must be very hurtful for you. In answer to your question about if a Psychopath can change, unless something was developed last night it is not possible at this point.

You might consider reading this excerpt.

Can Psychopaths Change

12/09/04 02:57 PM

Hi knowingbut.

Wecome. I read your story and it sounds typical of so many here. But why, after all he has done, do you still want to try and make excuses for him. Even if you only look at his behaviour with your friend and the contempt with which he has treated you both then you surely must see you are dealing with a nasty person. Keep focussed on the real him behind the mask and you will be able to let go of the illusion. I am no expert, but it seems there is no cure.

You need to think about your safety and the SAFETY of your kids. H ave you family and friends who can help and support and keep you safe from him and from your own desire to think he might change?

Good luck, I know it won't be easy which ever route you choose. Hope you don't mind me being a bit blunt.


12/09/04 06:59 PM

From the link Dianne provided:

"In addition, Hare believes, intervention can appeal to their self-interest and make use of the best available cognitive-behavior programs. Yet this requires their active participation. "You say to them, 'Most people think with their hearts, not with their heads and your problem is you think too much with your head. So let's change the problem into an asset.' They understand that. They say, 'Oh, yeah. I'm too rational. Like Spock on Star Trek.'" "

Whoah, does this ever resonate. Except instead of Spock, he compared himself to The Borg.

12/10/04 07:56 AM

Hi Knowingbut,

Welcome to the forum.

The mind has a tendency not to believe what it knows to be true, especially if that truth is counter to what we think we want or need. You very obviously know that this man is bad news. You even suspect that he is a psychopath. Yet, you are grasping at straws hoping, thinking against all the available evidence that he will change and once again become your prince on the white horse that you feel you need in order to survive.

You, like most every one of us here, want(ed) to believe that the perfect man exists – that you found him, and that he, against all odds, would continue to be perfect. There is no such thing as the prefect man (or woman) and the sooner we all divest ourselves of this bit of idiotic and misbegotten thinking, the sooner we will see the light.

Psychopaths do not change! That’s like asking a tiger to change its stripes. It cannot be done.

You must focus on your children and get them away from this man who is very busy damaging their self concept, which can have a devastating effect on the rest of their lives. Your first responsibility is to your children. You are their mother and they, rightly, look to you to protect them against evil and wrongdoing.

You know that this man has a very damaging effect on your children and that effect will keep magnifying the longer you allow them to be in his presence.

As well, to be the best parent possible you must protect yourself. By allowing this man near you, you are on a slippery slope downwards, and I speak from personal experience. The more you are around him, the more he will damage you too, and the result will be that you will not be able to adequately consider your children’s welfare.

You have now taken a step in the right direction. You are consciously aware that this man is in all ways damaging – to your children and to you. Please hold on to that thought.

The only way is to get away. Get away and avoid all contact. Nothing he says, nothing he promises is worth a dime. This man is a wolf in sheep’s clothing. This is no fairy tale and there are NO happy endings. It’s all too real and the sooner you allow yourself to believe what you know to be true, the sooner you will be okay.

Take care,


12/12/04 01:10 AM

Hi knowingbut

Welcome to the forum. Talking to those who have made the break and have formed a new life for themselves is the best thing you can do for yourself at the moment.

Please do not let anyone who acts like a p anywhere near your children. Too late I found that my childrens' father (and step father) worked behind my back to destroy my relationship with them, in a way that looked like he was 'defending' them from my 'strictness' which was normal parental behaviour, whereas he acted like their best friend. They are severely messed up and one commited suicide so beware that all you see is not all there is with this type. The longer it goes on the more damage you are left with and it takes a long time to recover from it and even more for the children.

Even with him out of my life it carries on through my (adult) children. Take care of you and yours when you have the chance.

Posted by: Dianne E.

Re: My story - 12/12/04 07:59 PM

12/12/04 07:16 PM

He let his 4 year old son drive a car on the highway and thinks that's cool. He habitually lies about where he lives. He has no conscience - no idea of consequences of his own actions. He pays no maintenance for his child (not uncommon - but he thinks he's justified because he's "above the law")He bought a listening device, stole taxi fares in a private hire vehicle registered in a false address; got beaten up by taxi drivers, then after an overnight stay in hospital, went straight back to the activity and place which caused him to be beaten up. When I moved house he followed in a mobile home and lived a fantasy life calling himself my husband and introducing himself to my friends and neighbours as such! He gave an interview to the press claiming to own the largest website in the world for used cars (!) and claiming that he had set up a professional training school for taxi drivers (all complete fantasy)all the cars were supposed to be ecofriendly and of the Virgin franchise (which, of course, he doesn't have!)He has made certain remarks of a sexual nature concerning out daughter (describing in graphic detail how others might sexually abuse her). He has threatened to kill me - not to my face but on an official government department recorded telephone line! He has taken me to court for custody of our daughter but doesn't have an address. His father is manic depressive. He sacked his solicitors partway through the court case and refused to pay them a penny .......shall I go on??????
Posted by: Dianne E.

Re: My story - 04/18/05 06:42 AM

03/25/05 03:09 AM

I have just found out that I am married to a psychopath. It is amazing how he is pulling a fast one through the court system. He is in the military and has been trained to be an interrogator. He's been interrogating for nearly four years now and is incredibly good at F**king with people's minds. He has really done a job on me and is now working through the court system to get custody of our three children. He has already gotten temporary custody and has had it for the past six months while I go through mental evaluation after psych evaluation to prove that I am not crazy and an unfit mother like he so claims. I have forked over nearly $10,000.00 in legal fees to prove this and am having an extremely hard time proving that he is the one that needs the help. My children are all under the age of four. I have been a stay at home mother and wife for the past five years. I have gone through tremendous mental and emotional hardship and have nothing to prove it. How can I prove in the court system that my husband is a psychopath? As it is, I had criminal charges dismissed against him on the condition that he undergo a psych eval just like I had to do. All in the hopes that the psycologist that does the evaluation is able to see through My husbands fake persona. Even so, it is overwhelming to know that this man has my children every day. I have not seen them in weeks. It is not legal for him to keep me from them but he is doing so by lying to the day care and those around him. So, when I try to go and see my children I am prevented by those whom I had considered my friends. I have court documents that say that the custody is JOINT and temporary and that we have equal rights and say in all matters pertaining to our children but no one belives me. I have to wait to document every time I am refused the right to see or talk to my childrn so that we can take it to court and have him held in contempt of a court order. My children have been sick since the first week of being in his care. Constant fevers and colds. I have to demand that he take them into the doctor (he told the doctor that I have no right to take them in and make medical decisions) and threaten legal action before he will. I go to my lawyer and am told to just wait and let him dig his grave. How much longer do I have to wait?!? and What about my babies?!? they are suffering...he tells them that I don't love them anymore, that I am sick and will hurt them. He tells my children that I have gone crazy and have to be with the doctors a lot. That is of course hurting my babies. My Oldest (four years old) will defend me until she is blue in the face. He's olny tearing them down and what can I do? Just wait for him to dig his grave deeper?!? I need help here!

Granted I have a social worker who sees (my husband) for what he is and she is documenting everything. She will be supenaed for the custudty case and will testify for me. My deepest concern is my children. What type of damage will this do? How do I fix it when I get them back? and of course I always fear that (my husband) will talk his way out of this mess like he has every other time. So, what do I do to help my lawer build this case. Even she does not believe that (my husband) is the way he is. She says "You two are bad for each other" constantly. She finds it hard to believe all that I tell her about what went on in our relationship. Even I find it all hard to believe. But it is all true. Is there really an end to this caous? Will I ever be rid of him? How do I come out of this mess on top? Any advice would help.

03/25/05 08:49 AM

Dear Amiratuka,

First, allow me to welcome you to the forum. Second, for your safety, I have edited out your husband's name. Where you had written his name, I have substituted (my husband). Other than that, your post is just as it was when you wrote it.

Have you read Toccata's thread:

'The Trouble Other People Have Understanding', which you will find in the 'Psychopaths in your Life' section?

Tocatta's thread and the link, will give you some idea of why it is SO difficult to make other people understand what you are going through and also why you are having a very hard time making anyone believe that what you say is true.

Let me assure you that I understand you and that I believe you!

You are probably stretched to the breaking point. And you are stressed out emotionally and perhaps financially as well. You are understandably worried about your children and their continued welfare. In short: you are in a VERY distressed state of mind. I am certain that you are aware of all the above.

However, what you may NOT be aware of is the fact, that the more stressed, distressed and hysterical you become, the less you will be believed against your husband's cool, calm and collected PUBLIC behaviour, which is all any of the people, social workers, doctors, psychiatrists and day care personnel involved, will ever see.

This is a sad fact and I am truly sorry for you are in a terrible situation.

I cannot give you any real good advice on how to deal with
all these people. What I can do is suggest to you that you be ever calm, cool and collected whenever you are dealing with any of these people. The object of this exercise is that you want to be BELIEVABLE. You want to be and present the real thing irrespective of how you feel inside. It's a hard thing to do, but it works.

Try to present a calm and level exterior - take deep breaths.
Do not shout.
Do not lose your sense of proportion.
Do not make weird or wild accustaions about anyone.
State your case as calmly and efficiently as you are able.
Be polite at all times.
Use good vocabulary.
Do not swear, sneer or use an ironic tone of voice.
Be factual and logical without resorting to hysteria.

NEVER, never have any conversations with your husband without a witness present. If he tells you that he needs to talk or see you or anything like that, politely refuse unless you can have another person present. You should not tell him this, you should simply arrange to have another person present - one of your parents, someone from the family, a girlfriend or a neighbour. If your husband comes to the house meet him outside and STAY there. You are safer this way and chances are that your husband will behave with reasonable decorum since there is a strong change that he will be overheard. Above all, BE POLITE with him, but be FIRM.

Collect evidence - writings, phone messages, anything at all that can be used against your husband. No item is too small or insignificant. Do NOT alert your husband that you are doing this. In fact, keep it to yourself until you have something you can definitely use - then present it.

I know that you are very worried about your children. I believe that your best chance to see them again and to beat your husband at his own game, is to be as calm, cool and collected as you can possibly be.

And stay in touch. We will do our best to support you.

Take care,


03/25/05 11:33 PM

Dear Nan, Thank you for your advice. I'll be using it in the near future.

As it is now, I have a restraining order against my husband and he also has a no contact order through his chain of command. Meaning that if he contacts me in any way he will be breaking a direct order from his Major. My husband didn't get really bad until this last time. He had just been a verbal and mental kind of guy finding extreme fun in messing with my mind. The last time however I had told him that I was not going to move with him and that we were getting a divorce. He didn't take it all to well.
Now, We exchange the children in front of the local sherriff and I have taken every letter that he has written me since the restraining order to his chain of command and my laywer. But I am still fighting an uphill battle. How do I educate my lawyer on the type of man he is? How can i get her to believe me?

Thankfully I had a friend convince me that I should have the bruises photographed and medically documented. So, Social services is involved and the woman that is working with (my husband) believes me. But I have to wait for her to document everything. She believes him to be a narcissist and after answering a questionare that my own psycologist gave me about my husband he says that he fits the profile of a psychopath. Of course after reading up about it I totally agree. My husband never ever remembered my birthday in five years of marraige and never ever remembered to buy me christmas gifts. I packed my clothes in and out of an old suitcase for our whole marraige because my husband insisted that a dresser was too expensive but he had a dresser for his clothes. I wasn't allowed to get a hair cut because it was too expensive but he had his hair cut every two weeks. I couldn't go to college because we couldn't afford it then two days after we discussed that my husband purchased a brand new computer that was equal to the cost of my tuition and books at the local community college. He could shove me outside in the cold and rain and then convince me that i had insisted on standing out there myself.

I can't imagine what it is that he is thinking. I really don't think that he is going to do anything else to me now. He'd be a fool to. I am not going to fall into his traps anymore. I refuse to have any contact with him whatsoever and plan on keeping it that way. When we go into court for that emergency custody hearing he will have his whole world come crashing down on him. He has been caught, finally. But it is a long time in putting together the case. I have to admit that I am looking forward to seeing him dig his hole deeper but at the same time it will be a painful thing to watch. I am not wanting to see him break down and am told that he might just do that in or directly after the courtroom that gives me back the kids and the house. How do I handle that? I am not really ready to see him again. how do I prepare myself for that?
Posted by: Dianne E.

Re: My story - 04/18/05 06:52 AM

01/25/05 01:09 PM

Hello All,

First I would like to thank you for having this forum, and thanks to all those who participate. Without it - the understanding that there "actually are" other people out there who have "suffered" through situations with these types of people - would not have been possible for me.

I read about and research things that interest me - and when I discovered some of the other "information" available on the net - it really pointed me towards believing we were dealing with a P - but without this forum - it would not have been so crystal clear - and believable. Thank you all! whew!

So - my story - is...long...tiring..."crazy"...sad...etc. It all started almost five years ago. I met a man, we got along great, we had a little run in with his ex, but I thought - no big deal - we moved in together - then things with the ex really started to roll...unravel...etc. She fits the P profile to a "T" - very quick comebacks, sarcastic, belittling, reckless with her and her childrens lives, yet educated.

I guess I'm "lucky" because I've only had to deal with her at a distance. I'll tell you though - if I knew now, what I knew then, I'm not sure I would've gotten involved with this man. He's a great guy - but all the "baggage" - it gets to be waaaay too much. He's been wonderful about protecting me and his son from her - as much as possible. I always followed his advice about "don't talk to her" - and still do. Yes/no kinda things is about as far as I'll go with her, and that's only been recently, but even that I avoid if possible.

I think we were together about two years before he managed to get his child into our custody. In the meantime it was "total" chaos. She was using the child to get him worked up. Withholding the child, not putting the child in school, neglecting the child - moving every six months (or less), different men all the time, abusive men, inmates, doing drugs, stealing, lying, un equipped child care, these were just the things we "knew" about. She filled his childs mind with terrible lies about me, about the childs father, about countless countless things! It's so sick and sooo sad.

Visits were fun/psychotic at the same time. The poor child was so mixed up about "life". I don't think the child is P - but I certainly think the child would've been P if left with her.

You see the ex got pregnant - by a P (I believe) - tried getting rid of the guy - but he's still hanging on, and, fighting for custody. It's sick - who's the lesser evil...I don't know. The child is wonderful - poor little thing. I cared for that child in my home for a very extended period of time - after receiving a phone call from her stating, "it was either us or a stranger". Well, we have the (half) sibling living with us - and so - we agreed. Later only to find out that the "placement of the child with a stranger" was a hoax - and that while I was caring for, both of her children now, she was flying across the country fulfilling "dates" - even "squeezing" one in during a flights "stopover". All the while telling us she had a business trip, and telling people she knew what a sl**, and a who**, etc. I was, to which one replied - "You shouldn't talk that way about the woman taking care of your children" - she just brushed them off. She'd call and say she missed the kids etc., etc. etc.

We have no legal right to that child so when she was ready, that child went back with her. That child had three different fathers (legally on record). By the way - that child came back from a visit with her once - mimicking a snorting action. Blew my mind. I could go on and on and on and on, changing the childs name after a year or more - about how poorly she treated these kids - about the sick/mean/twisted things she would say about them - and TO them. And "believe me" - that's just a small sampling of what we dealt with....every-every day!

Sometimes we still do. With no regard for the impact. So many promises by her un-fulfilled...for the children! The one unspoken promise - to be a mother...un-fulfilled. I am stepping in, I can help, but I can never "fix" the damage that she has done and continues to do. I try to be a soft place to land - but that's hard to do sometimes - especially when you're being told by this child - let me sum it up - every mean thing in the book. Being hated on the one hand - and looked to on the other. It's hard to balance - and keep sane and loving.

Originally we didn't think there was a chance of ever getting "custody" of his child. It didn't seem that she would let go of that "control" mechanism. My man is a very smart man. He's a very loyal, dedicated spouse. He has had some very serious medical issues - such as PTSS - as a backlash from...."everything". Anyway - he'd dealt with her long enough to have some ideas (not that it always works) about how to "deal" with her. He knew when to play what card - and managed to get custody. whew!

That's part of the reason I'm here - is to TRY to get a grasp on HOW anyone could be this cruel - especially to kids. And not seem to care! WTF! I get so angry. Yes - I'm lucky - I've always wanted a "family" - and wasn't able to conceive. I have a wonderful man, and his child (becoming ours) we have a pretty stable life as of late. But that just puts me on edge - because, when will it start up again, and how??? It has lulled before and then raised it's ugly head with as much or more fury than before. There's no escaping it - this child knows her as "mom".

We've been to a counselor and now a psychologist trying to clean up the mess she's created with his child. Life has almost - no, not almost - life with her influence HAS broken us several times....countless times - including the children - but we keep working on moving forward - and for now it seems to be's like a fortune cookie I received said - "slow and steady wins the race" - I don't know if it's actually true - but I'm trying it and it's working for us...most days.

One thing I want to pass on is - in talking with the psychologist, they told us that you should not bad talk the other parent...and here's why...the child sees themselves as that parent (in a way) and when you say negative things - the child takes that on themselves. Even something as simple as being "truthful", not truthful, etc. It's been sooooo hard - but I've never - ever - said anything negative about this childs mother (not in hearing range anyway). I've even gone as far as clean up a lot of mental messes she's made with the kids - make them feel ok about things, with things, feel loved, cared for, the kids seem very mentally mature for their age - after dealing with all that in their lives. S

It's been the most unbelievably hardest thing I've ever done - or could've imagined living or "staying" through.

All my friends and family have heard everything - they haven't always been supportive of me staying - and I can't say that I blame them - but I feel I have something to give, and something to gain and learn in this situation. I feel it was meant to be - us as a family - and I intend to make that happen.

We've gone through the comparing notes with others bit - especially with kids involved - it's important to "try" to know what the truth is - but it seems to me that no one really has the truth - so why bother - other than to justify in your head that the P is lying...hello...that should be a given. But it's hard - we have a natural want/need/desire to "find out the truth", to get to the bottom of it, to have the "truth" - but I don't think we'll ever truly find it. In our situation it's mostly "damage" control for the child. The other "stuff" - well it's hard to not get sucked into the vortex of drama - but I try.

I've got to tell you - after reading the posts on this site I feel so much more at ease in dealing with her - because for me the mystery is solved. Now I know what's going on and why. My man said to me "I've been telling you that all along" - ok - but until you hear other true stories it's just too hard to believe. So thank you - thank you so very much for putting my mind at ease.
I've often felt that .... Maybe I was the crazy one!? ;-)

Dianne E.
02/09/05 05:54 PM

Hi crazy7, welcome to the forum. I am really glad you found some answers to your questions. I always think of knowledge as being power.

It sounds like you are a with a wonderful man and it is tragic that his X is in the picture, I guess it is "lucky" that she is at a distance. It must be very trying to be a step mom under normal circumstances.

You sure don't sound like the "crazy one" to me. You are a brave woman to help your husband work through all of this chaos. It is not often we hear about women P's so your story is very interesting to me. If you can think of anything you might share in how you came to the conclusion she might be a P it would be very interesting.

I wish you the best and congratulations for standing up for the children.

Posted by: Dianne E.

Re: My story - 04/18/05 07:15 AM

12/16/04 07:44 AM

Hello to you all.This forum is a godsend,and I feel blessed to have found you all!I have been coming here and reading for quite some time and finally got the guts to join up and tell a little of my story,as embarassing as it is.It is embarassing for me,because as my user name says"Too many P's",I have been involved with not one P but at least 3 P's since I was a teenager.I believe they are all P's,however they are all quite different with different things they would do,but the bottom line is that they ALL only cared about themselves and felt nothing for anyone else.I am happy to say that now at 39 I have been married to a wonderful man that I have been with for 11 years,but the memory of the abuse and games of the P's still haunt me.I am hoping that by coming here and recounting my stories will not only help me in some way,but also those of you that read here too.I have done much therapy, research, ect., but I still find myself having bouts of mistrust, doubts,ect.,and I believe I may be suffering from post tramatic stress still.My husband has truly been my angel and has tolerated alot of my insecurities and fears through it all.(He also knew my last ex-P,very well)I find it very hard to trust anybody.This,unfortunatley keeps me wanting to isolate myself from meeting new people.It is as though I cannot trust myself anymore as to my opinion about people and that I now am very analytical when observing others,and have perhaps become a bit judgemental.

I wish that I could heal from this,but even now so many years later I have not,compleatley and probably never will.I am sure that it doesnt help that two of my ex-P's have re-entered my life in the past year,even though I have had no contact with either for quite awhile now,again,due to the games re-started by them both.Before I begin writing my very long stories of the P's I was involved with,I want to tell the administrator of the forum that I tried to post this under "my story",but there was no icon for new posts there..only one to respond to anothers this something to do with "cookies"?I am pretty computer illiterate,so please forgive me for posting my story here..
my first encounter with a P was when I was 15.He was 18.Basically,I didn't know better than to stay away from him,even though my parents did not like him and did not approve.I was rebellious and stupid,and thought he was exciting.(yeah..really exciting to be abused..sarcasm)I also felt sorry for him.He had a terrible family background,having a mother who was a drug addict/drunk,a biological father that died before he was born,and a step dad that was vacant.He had been placed in several foster homes as a child where he told me he was beaten,molested and treated worse than a dog.He had several problems with the law as a teeneager,stealing motorcycles and being a theif,drug abuse,ect.He spent time in boys camps and juvinile detention.The first six months we were together everything seemed fine.I can't even fathom that I gave my virginity to this creep.It makes me sick.

Anyway,in the beginning,it was lies.He would make dates with me to go out and then not call or show up at all.I found out through friends that he would be at a party locked in the bathroom for along time with some girl.When he did call me back days later,he would act as though nothing happened,we never had a date,and when I would question him he would get really angry.If it was over the phone,I would get verbally attacked and if in person I would get beaten.After this happened several times and I have proof that he was cheating on me and lying about it,I decided to see how he would like it if I went to a party without him.Yes,I was very stupid,for I was playing a very dangerous game,but at the time I didn't understand the nor did I even know what a P was,or what they were capable of.He ended up showing up at this party and caysing a big scene.He threatened to kill himself,layed himself on me dead weight while I was sitting on theh couch and got into a fist fight with the host and got his butt kicked.

Still,later I took him back.He again got into trouble with the law for stealing a motorcycle and attempted to repaint it and change tha plates,but he was caught.This time,He did 6 months in the county jail for adults.He called me crying,saying that he was scared.I wrote to him daily and visited him several times,even though I had no drivers license or car.He wrote me a couple of times sickningly sweet letters that were so phony sounding.At the time,I ate it up.When he was to be released,his mother and I went to collect him.On his first night home his mother allowed me to stay the night,but not in her house,so he pitched a tent in his backyard and we stayed there.He called me every foul name in the book and gave me a beating,accusing me of being unfaithful while he was in jail.His mother had to have heard this,and did nothing at all.She didn't even come out to look.

I stayed with this monster for 3 years while he did many terrible things.(And,he KNEW I had no where else to go and noone else either)It is a long story as to why I did put up with all of this,but It is very hard for me to get into right now so I will briefly sum it up this way.A month after him and I began dating,I turned 16.I stupidly gave him my viginity at that point.2 weeks later he broke up with me saying that having a girlfriend was taking him away from spending time with "the boys"and that he now decided he wanted to be free.I did not protest at all,but I did feel betrayed and sad.Two weeks later I was invited by friends to go to a halloween party that I ended up getting raped at by 3 grown men.(I ended up putting them all in prison)In my despair,I called him and told him about it and he then got back together with me.I did not tell my parents about the rape as I had a feeling they would treat me differently,and although circumstances happened in which they did find out about it a week later,I found out I was right to think that,because I WAS treated as though I was now tainted and the pain of having my family turn on me was too much to bare and I left home on my own accord at age 16.So,for the 3 years I was with this P,we lived in tents,trailers,rented a room,and at friends homes and occassionally I would go back home for short stays.Some of the things he did are as follows,starting from the beginning of the relationship till the end:

One time when I thought I might be pregnant he responded by saying that it wasn't his,and that he would take me to court with 5 of his friends to say that they all slept with me.

once while having a fight with him in front of the courthouse,he put lit ciggarettes out in my scalp and started punching me in the face and head.A passer by rescued me and got me into his car while having to threaten the P so he could take me to the hospital.
Abeating so bad that he broke my nose,teeth and jaw,and I was chooking on my own blood while spitting out teeth.I had a concussion as well.He enlisted his best friend whose house we were staying at in a trailer on his property,and they carried me into the house,locked me into a bedroom,boarded up the windows from the outside and kept me a prisoner for 3 weeks until I helaed enough so as not to get the P into trouble.The entire 3 weeks I didn't see the P,but his friend would come in and feed me liquids through a straw,and change my "bucket"which was my toilet.During these 3 weeks,I could see out of my window from a crack,to see our trailer,and the P was having some other girl there the whole time.They were laughing and I heard the sounds of sex coming from the trailer every night.

One time while back at my parents home(which is where I went after being released from his friends room)it was the middle of the night and very hot,so I had the bedroom window open.The P came over out of the blue jumped through the window,sat on top of me and started to strangle me,while saying he loved me.When he heard noise coming from my parents room,he jumped back out of the window.

once while visiting a friends house,I was reading a book and he came over and asked what I was reading.I told him and then said I had a headache.I asked the friend if there was somewhere I could lie down and shut my eyes as I was having a migraine.He told me I could lie down in his mothers room,since she was out of town.I did,and not too much longer came the P.He came in closed the door and got down on top of me sitting on my chest and began to strangle me.I couldn't breathe and felt i was going to pass out.I somehow managed to get him off of me and I ran to the mothers bathroom.He pushed the door open and began to punch me in the face.I snapped out and hit the glass shower door on accident and the friend ran in and asked what was going on.The P immeadiatley appeared to be in shock at my actions,looking innocent and saying he didn't know what F was wrong with me.I was hysterical,needless to say,and told the friend to look at my neck which had scratches and was red and swollen and which also had bruises that appeared to be finger marks around it.He asked us to leave saying he was going to be in big trouble when his mother came back.I felt terrible.As we left,the P decided to beat me as we walked down the street,and knocked me to the ground where he proceeded to kick me in the head with steal toe boots.This all took place in the middle of the night and noone was around,but luckily i saw a motorcycle coming down the road and got up and pleaded for him to stop.He did and told me to get on the back.I did,and unbelievablely the P actually tried to get on behind me!!The guy on the bike whipped out a knife and told the P to back off now!And then he drove me to the hospital.

The P had a habit of disappearing for days sometimes weeks at a time and would never give any explination for it and if questioned would give a beating.He was known to cheat often and brag about it.He caught herpes and blamed it on me,although I never had them and never cheated either.

I also believe the P was bi-sexual,closeted,and really hated women compleatley.He used to tell me of a man he used to visit as a boy that would give him candy and junk foos and they would build airplane models together and he would let the man "do things"tohim.All of the other kids stopped going to this mans house when they found out what he wanted but not this P.I think he liked it.I was told by some of the kids in his neighborhood that him and his freind(the one that let us stay in the trailer)were caught years ago in a sexual act in his garage.I had chosen not to believe this,but then other things happened.First,whenever I would try to discuss this with the P as a friend in a non threatening way,he would become hostile and I would get another beating.I believe I had even caught him a few times and the result was always another are a few times:

Once he left me lying in the middle of an apartment complex in a bad neighborhood in the middle of the night by myself because his "freind"took off without us and he was angry because "he lost his friend".(I believe he was in love with his "friend".)

Another time when we had been renting a room,in which I was paying for everything by working two part time jobs at age 17,because he could never hold a job,I was ent home from work ill.When i arrived home,I went upstairs to hang my coat and found the bedroom a mess.The bed was undone and looked as if it had been used.On my side of the bed on the floor was a pair of mens underwear.Funny,but my P never wore any or even owned any.On his side of the bed under the bed was my jar of vaseline with the lid off that I used to take off my waterproof eye makeup,and stuck to it was several pubic hairs belonging to what appeared to be two different people.As I went back down stairs with a very sick feeling inside,the P was coming up the stairs and looked quite shocked to see me.He said,"what are you doing here?"I told him I was sent home sick from work.I asked him what happened in the bedroom,and of course,a beating commenced.He threw me into a coat hook on the wall which punctured me,ripped my clothing off and threw me and my purse out into the street,just while the church across the street was letting out.Everything in my purse emptied into the street and I was naked lying in the middle of the street.A neighbor ran out with a blanket and covered me up bringing me to their home.I called the police,but by the time they came,he had already gone and stayed gone for weeks.

still another time,we were visiting at another friends apartment,when another tenent showed up that was a friend of theirs.During our stay,it was very obvious to me that the P and this guy were giving each other the eye,and the sexual vibes in the air between them was so thick you could cut it.The P obviously thought that noone else could see this.There was alot on inuindo and flirting going on between them that the P must have thought I was too stupid to detect.Outside the apartment later,I questioned him about it,and he again proceeded to beat me in front of everyone.(you would think I would have learned by now)I screamed for anyone to call the police,which someone did,but again,the P left before they arrived.By the next week,the P was bragging to me and anyone else he could brag to how his new "friend'gave him a weight lifting bench and free weights and a computer desk(even though he didn't own a computer)and some other junk.I believe he must have given the P these things for some sexual favors.I could go on and on with the twisted things this P did,the lies,the games,the abuse and the obvious non caring of anything he did to hurt me.In the end at eighteen years ols,I rented my own apartment and had a decent full time job.He was supposed to have been living with me,but the day I moved in,he was not there to help me move in my things and set up the apartment.He came about two weeks later to give me a beating,busting my lip and bruising me up again.I started going out on my own and met someone else,and when he caleed to say he was coming over,I told him that i was through with him and that someone else was living with me now.He cried and couldn't belive it and begged for me back.i just said no.Then,one day when my new boyfreind was at work and I had two girlfriends over,I went to take a shower because we were all going out shopping and to lunch.The P knocked on the door and they answered it.He bursted in,came into the bathroom and had a big sword with him.He threatened to kill me and then himself.I screamed for my freinds to call the police and he ran out and pulled the phone out of the wall and then my other friend ran for the door.He beat her to it and pushed her down.In the meantime,I wrapped my self in a towel and in the livingroom in front of my friends he spit on me,slapped my face and told me he loved me and how could I do this to him.I told him to look at himself..does someone that love another slap adn spit on them in the same breathe?He just didn't get it.My neighbors had heard the comotion and began knocking on the door and said they were going to break in the front window,and that the police were on the way.The P got scared and went into the bedroom, destroyed soem of my things and stole some other things(just to hurt me)and escaped out the bedroom window.I didn't run into him again until 3 years later.He was as nice as pie to me.He bragged to me about his new girlfriend and how she came from a rich family and that her father owned many clubs and bars and that they were all going to be willed to her because she is an only child.He showed me a picture of her and told me she was"butt ugly"and laughed and said she was fat.He said she was almost ten years older than him,had a beak nose and short curly black hair and looked pitiful.I couldn't believe he was saying these things to me.I read somewhere else on this forum how a P will be with anything no matter what they look like as long as they are getting a place to live and things paid for them..makes alot of sense!He told me he would like to sleep with me again(not in those words,but very disgustingly)and that he had access to her bank card and could withdraw money as he liked and we could get a motel room right now.Of course,I declined.I went away wondering how many times he had already done this to her.Some years later I saw him at a liquar store and he braggingly wanted to show me the semi truck out in the parking lot that he was now driving for a living.I feared that that was a great way for him to be a serial killer if he was so inclined.And I fear that he is very capable of that.

He told me he was still with the same woman too.About a year later i ran into his mother at the local mall and she told me that his girlfriend was now his wife and that they were expecting a baby.I feel very sorry for her and that baby who by now is a child..The P once told me that he used to make his little sister perform oral sex on him when he took a bath.He actually got a perverted kick out of this like he was proud of himself...I hope he has not harmed his child.

well,I think this is all I can handle writing for now.I still get so very angry when I go over this stuff.

All these years later I still hate the P.This one especially. I believe he would have killed me one day.Anyway,these are just some of the experiences I have had with this P.I have been with two other P's that I have had relationships with after this one,and I will write about them here soon.The last one I was with,I had his son,who is now eleven.This is very hard,and emotionally draining,but because of the disbelief factor that so many peopel have when you tll them about the PI hav not reached out to anyone regarding what has happened to me in a very long time.I feel after reading here,that this is a safe place where others understand and know and relate,and I hope to make some friends that understand the scars left by the P,and hopefully help others that have been hurt too.Anyway,theres more on the way from me,and thanks for listening...

12/16/04 08:22 AM

I'm sorry..although I just wrote a VERY long post,I wanted to come back and say a little more about this P,because I realized what I wrote most about was his abuse,and I am certain there are those that are abusive that are not P's as well.So,besides this P being abusive,he also was a cronic liar,only showed emotions for himself(like when he was scared or felt sorry for himself),hated woman and talked alot about his hatred for his mother,was a thief in in trouble with the law frequently,couldn't hold a job,disappeared for days and weeks at a time,was sercretive,didn't like to be questioned,got almost all of my friends to sleep with him behind my back(which I found out later),would automatically think I wanted to have sex when I tried to hold his hand,hug him or give himm a kiss,and then be repulsed and tell me that all I wanted was sex all the time and he would act as though I was disgusting and reject me.Oh and BTW,sex with him was horrible.There was no sweetness or passion.It was either violent with kissess so hard that his teeth would hit mine,and he would bite me and act like it was an accident,or it was as if he was not even there,somewhere far away,and just going through the motions.I'm sure there are many other red flags I could have seen then,but I was so young and did not know what a P was or what to look for.Interestingly,years later,his mother told me that many of his family members on her side of the family were institutionalized in mental hospitals.She did not say why or with what diagnosis,but it was obvious that whatever it is,is hereditary.I still have nightmares about this P,more than anyone else...Oh,I wish I could erase these memories...

12/17/04 03:35 AM

Hi there and welcome

I am still working thru your story - it is not easy for you to post it all. I too believe I have been involved with more than one P, the first one was about 25 years ago, the second I met 15 years later. The first was in and out in a few months and I had a luck escape. But it makes me wary of my own judgement - I would find it very hard to trust again. So you are really lucky to have found someone and I hope you will have a long and happy future. The ghosts will always return but you can work thru them.

Must dash but willl read all your post later.

good luck


12/17/04 12:04 PM


Welcome to the forum. I am glad you found us.

I have a sneaky suspicion that having, finally, written down your thoughts and feelings about what happened to you so many years ago, has helped you in more ways than you realised before you started writing. I hope so!

I think holding on to such painful memories can be very debilitating and also stop us from enjoying life right this moment. In the back of our mind is this nagging feeling that somehow we do not deserve to be happy and content because what happened way back when was our fault and that we atone by never being happy – ever.

I believe the best thing to do is to be very clear that you are NOT at fault. What happened to you was NOT your fault.

You have the right to be happy and content with the wonderful man you met and married. You made a good choice and you have yourself to thank for that. You have learned some painful lessons, but you have also grown and prospered and today you are in a good place, in a good relationship with a wonderful man, who obviously mirrors how wonderful YOU are.

Take heart and know that not even the gods can change the past. When you are ready, let go of the past. Live in the present, in the now and be glad that you have survived against such incredible odds. You have yourself to thank for that. No one can take your strength and your power away, for you alone know what it has cost you to arrive at today.

Be glad that you have the power and the will to want a caring and loving relationship. Best of all, that you have created it because you knew that you could.

Be well,


Dianne E.
12/18/04 08:27 PM

Hi TMP and welcome to the forum. I sure am glad that you have a great relationship now. I hope that by expressing your past it can really help you enjoy life without such lingering doubts and pain.

Best regards,


12/19/04 05:44 AM

Hi Recovery,.and thank you for the welcome!I have read alot of your posts here and your story is a hard one too.I really relate to you about not being able to trust your own judgement.It seems that almost everyone that has had an encounter with a P feels that way on some level.That is a sad thing to be left with that,I think.It makes everything in our lives so very different than it was before.Yes,I do believe I am very lucky to have a normal relationship with a wonderful man after all I have been through with all three P's.I believe that it was the circumstnces of our friendship that went on before we got involved in a relationship that allowed me to trust again on some level,as well as the fact that he had been friends with my last ex-P from childhood and confirmed that the P was that way since a child.He had warned me so much about him,and of course I didn't listen,but when the chips fell and the ex-P lsft me out of the clear blue for another women when our son was only 3 months old,it was the P's friend(who I am with now)that was there to help me pick up the pieces and stepped into my life as not only my mate but my sons daddy too.Unfortunatley,this P is still causing problems,which I will write about here soon,so somehow,the ghosts are still very close....I hope you all will have some advice for me when I finally do get to that part of my story..thanks..

12/19/04 06:22 AM

Hello Nan!Yes,I am very glad to have found you all and this forum!I believe it did help me to write about my experience with this P.I also think you were right on about how debilitating painful memories can be.I think it has affected my health,both physically and mentally.I suffer from arthritis,heart problems and severe back problems in which I should get surgery for but am avoiding.Mentally,I have insomnia very bad at times and a very low threshold for anything that causes me anxiety,and I get frustrated very easily now.I also have a sort of agoraphobia(sp?)in that I can leave my house,but I mostly need to be prodded to because I prefer to stay here,and when i do leave,it is never alone.I do not even feel safe to leave with just me and my son,like to go to a park,without my husband or some other adult,like my mother,and I have not driven my car in over 2 years.We do however,live in a very busy city and there are alot of people that I am fearful of as well as alot of crime and I would rather stay inside my home.
I also think you hit the nail on the head when you talk about deserving,and blame.That I believe,is the underlying cause of why I tolerated so much for so long.You see,when my parents found out about me being raped,my mother literally blamed me for it,and for years.She didn't seem to forgive me until my son was about 5 years old.She remained emotionally unavailable and angry with me for disobeying her and going to that party against her will and therefor I got what I deserved and it was my fault in her eyes.

Basically noone in my family would even talk to me after that,or I was treated with anger from my mom,and that is why I left.Even when I had to go to trial a year later to put these men away for what they did(including line ups and interviews which led up to that)I had to do it alone with no support from my family.I DID internalise the blame and tried to injure myself in more ways than one back then. There did finally come a point in my life after much therapy and more horrible relationships that I knew I was not to blame and that I am a strong person and that I did not deserve to be treated this way by anyone. That I desrved love and basically began a process to learn to forgive and to love myself.This began after my relationship with the last P.It has been along journay,but with the consistant support of my husband and the love I have for him and my son,I have gotten much stronger.Also,things have repaired with my parents and they have admitted their errors as well and there has been forgiveness all the way around.That has been very healing.

I want to thank you for all of your encouraging and wonderfully positive words.And anytime I am feeling down about these things,I will come and read them again.Infact,I think i am going to print it out and use them as affirmations for myself!I DO believe that these things in my past were indeed lessons and I HAVE learned much from them in a positive way as well.Now,if I can just get these last two P's out of my life for good,I will be home free!!!I don't know why they keep trying to come back into my life,but I will write more of that later.I seem to only be able to handle a little at a time or else I start feeling overwhelmed.And,since these last two P's I was involved with are still affecting my life in some ways,(or at least trying to)I look forward to the advice you may have for me,so I will try my best to tell these stories as soon as I can.Again Nan..thank you!

12/19/04 06:48 AM

Hi Dianne!Thank you for the welcome!Yes,expressing myself to those that understand and have been there really does help.And even though I now have a wonderful and healthy relationship now,and he is supportive and witnessed what I went through with the last P,he never really experienced being on the recieving end of being in a relationshhip with a diabolical person such as a P is.So,it really feels good to be able to have the suppost of those that have been there and for that I am very appreciative to have found all of you.Unfortunatley,it is hard for me to forget the past and get on with my life because the last two P's I was involved with are still trying to causr trouble for me and also because I have had much trouble with the son i had from my last P.If it is true about P's being hereditary than I have much to worry about,especailly with things that have transpired with my son.After I have had the energy and time to write about my last two P's,I think i will need to go to the P's in the family section and write more there as hard as that may be.So,you may be seeing me alot here on your site,for things that are happening now as well.Unfortunatley,the pain never seems to go away compleatley,and I fear me and my husband have a long road ahead of us where it concerns my son....That is why I say my husband is like my guardian angel.He has stuck by me through so much that he never really had to and he continues to no matter how hard things have gotten.He is truly my best friend. Until I am able to get to the very long story of my son,please anyone that prays or sends energy,please do so for my son.He needs it.We all do.I will just say for now that he has been seeing therapist since he was 4 and we noticed something wrong with his behavior at the age of two.He has been kicked out of every school, babysitters and day cares that he was ever in,and even kicked out of a special day treatment school for kids with behavior problems.He has been put on medications(that he now no longer takes)and has also had two month long visits to children mental facilities at the age of eight.He is much better now,and in my story I will tell you how he has gotten better,but there are still problems.He has been diagnosed with so many different things at different parts of his life,such as ADHD,unspecified aniety disorder, oppositional defiant disorder,unspecified mood disorder with rapid cycling(another way to say he may be bi-polar without having to label such a young child)and here is the scariest,pre-conduct disorder.Anyway,like I said,you will be hearing alot from me..not just my recounting of past relationships and now everything is fine because i have a great relationship.No,the P dilema is still in my life in some form or another and I need much support from you wonderful people.It looks as though the doughts and the pain may be here to stay and I need to find a way to live with it without it killing me.Again,thanks for listening and i will be back again to take it one step at a time writing it all out with the hopes that it all becomes clearer to me and makes some sense to all of you as well as to me.I tell you,it isn't easy...but I need to start somewhere..thanks again..

12/19/04 03:43 PM

Dear TMP,

Thank you for your thoughtful reply.

"Now,if I can just get these last two P's out of my life for good,I will be home free!!!"

Though I am well aware of what you mean, the good news is that these two people are NOT in your life. You are in their lives and there is a huge difference.

They want something from you. They may think that you are still the same 'sitting duck' and they are testing your resolve to see what they can get away with. If you give them so much as an inch, they will take it as confirmation that you are available in some way and they will keep up the harassment. You have the power to keep them out of your life by not paying them any attention whatsoever. If you see one of them on the street or anywhere, say 'Hello' with a nod and keep walking away. Do not engage in any conversation at all. Do not let them bait you into any kind of angry or frustrated action or statement. Look as if you are cool, calm and collected no matter how you really feel.

"I don't know why they keep trying to come back into my life,..."

Because they want something from you - anything. A reaction that tells them that you are vulnerable. If you are vulnerable they have power over you and they will use it if you let them. That is why the NO CONTACT RULE is the only way to get rid of these people. Do not initiate contact under any pretext whatsoever. It's a ruse to get you going. If one should call and with a teary and desperate voice tell you that he is going to kill himself unless you do XYZ, you simply say "good" and hang up the phone. A P will never kill himself, never! What he trying to do is engage you in his life and he will use ANY pretxt at all. Do not fall for it.

The thing is, he needs you to feed his ego and his sense of power, so he can manipulate you like he used to do. You do not need him, but he is so high on his own sense of power that he is sure that he can manipulate you in some way or another. The trick is to be super aware of how these people play the nasty games. Have you read Hare's book 'Without Conscience'? They have it at the library.

"...but I will write more of that later.I seem to only be able to handle a little at a time or else I start feeling overwhelmed."

Yes! That is very normal. I have tried several times to write a longer account of what happened to me, and I always end up having to cut it short because it so unpleasant to get into these thoughts again. You have to dig down into your unconscious to remember it all and it IS overwhelming.

Just take it a little at a time. There is no rush. The writing is something you must do for you, not for anyone else. You will know when you can handle writing and when your mind tells you to stop, that 'this is it', you simply listen to your mind and stop. Some days you just cannot face the idea of thinking about it, so leave it alone. As your mind is ready, you will find that you can deal with a little more and, one day soon, your mind will feel much clearer as you become aware that the fear you felt has lessened.

"And,since these last two P's I was involved with are still affecting my life in some ways,(or at least trying to)..."

You are clearly very aware of what they are doing. But trying to do something is not the same as doing it. I think...that what they are doing is attempting to make you fearful. They are playing on your fear - your fear of falling down into the BIG hole where you have been before.

So long as you are very clear that you are NOT getting into any holes, large or small, they cannot hurt you again. It is possible that your fear of what "could" happen is one of the possible reasons why you prefer to stay at home. So long as you are home, you very understandably feel safe.

However, real safety lies inside your mind. Consciously, you know that you are strong and that you will prevail. Perhaps your unconscious mind has not got the message yet? Be loving with yourself. Believe in your ability to conquer your fear. Allow your mind to go as far as it can and when you feel too overwhelmed, leave it alone. You have come this far because you are strong, so continue to trust in yourself and your ability to heal your mind.

"...I will try my best to tell these stories as soon as I can. "

There is no rush at all. As I said, the writing is for you, no one else. A few lines today, a paragraph tomorrow and maybe nothing for a week. Slowly you will be able to pour out the sadness, the anger and the pain about your past. And then it WILL be the past.

"Again Nan..thank you! "

Thank YOU <smile>. I will be away for the next three weeks, so please do not expect a reply until sometime after the New Year. May it be a Happy one for you.

Good thoughts,

Posted by: jamie28

Re: My story - 04/18/05 03:47 PM


as someone who was raised by a P (though under very different circumstances than you describe) can i just say that you have no idea how much you may be helping the child/children involved. sure, the kid(s) are messed up. they have been through emotional hell. but just being there for them is making more difference than you can ever know.
thank you for doing that for them.

Posted by: Dianne E.

Re: My story - 05/06/05 08:05 PM

Just Diann
02/24/05 07:43 PM

I am married to both a psychopath and a narcissist that drinks. So I got all in one! The best thing that I have done for myself is get out of this marriage.That is why I am in the middle of a divorce. I had to move out of the house couldn't stand being around him knowing what kind of lier he really is. Living with him all these years was the most hardest times of my life. He has put me down to the floor and now I have to try get myself back up. Trying to find a way to deal with him and deal with why I let myself get into this mess. I have been with this man over eleven years. He told me that he has a new love and that he wonts me out of his life. I hate him but can't go around him. Becasue I know what he has up his sleeve with his new girlfriend. She is married herself with 2 children. One is 4 and the other is 12. My husband hasn't been around small children for over 13 years. I don't feel sad for her. She will find out soon enough. She can have the crapy life that I have had. It has been nice not to have someone tell you who you are and what kind of person you are. Thanks for listeing to me. I am in a support group and seeing a theripst. I have to find out about myself to live with this person. Write and please don't feel alone, Diann

02/25/05 10:17 AM

Hi JD.

Welcome to the forum and thank you for your post.

I hope you have read some of the our many threads and posts, for then you know that many of us share your sad story in one way or another.

You will also know that it is possible to live a P free live, even though it can be very hard in the beginning as we try to figure out what has really happened.

You are right, it is a great feeling not to have someone tell you what to do, only to criticise every effort made if you try to follow the instructions, that often as not, are completely illogical.

You write that you cannot feel sad for the new woman your ex has found and that she can have the difficult life that you have had with him.

It is easy to understand your feelings of anger towards your ex, since it appears that it is HE who has decided to find someone else. Still, please consider that a little compassion for the next unsuspecting victim may be in order.

I am glad to hear that you have found a good support group and am seeing a therapist. You are doing the right thing and I hope that your healing will continue.

Many people here have found that it really helps to write things down. So keep writing.

We are here to listen and if you need it, support you.

Take care,


02/26/05 09:01 AM

Hi JD,

It is important to know that a post must be answered in the forum and NOT via the private mail messages that some people choose in order to be alerted when there is an answer to their post.

So, 'come on in, the water's great' <s>.


Just Diann
02/26/05 01:20 PM

Nan: Well I wonted to answer you about not feeling sorry for his knew girlfriend. Both of them set me up. She would call him on his cell phone at his lunch time. I found out one night when he asked me a question that only she knew. That is why I knew that she called him and he called her so they both were seeing each other after I left for work.The both didn't have to be in until eight but I had to be in work at 6:60am. When I asked he said that they were just friends. That is odd because I wasn't allowed to have friends but I could be friends with her. He said that he wonted to friends to. I am not that stupid. She will learn as I have that he is a lier and a cheat and he steals anything he can and not get caught. He also loves to spend other people money even his wifes. She will have to find out about this herself.When I asked him about her and him he said we are just friends.After that night she never called me and when I called her she wouldn't answer when I went over to her house next door she wouldn't answer. So that is why I don't feel sorry for her. She so wonted my husband she can have all of him and his controling ways. That is why. Diann

Dianne E.
02/27/05 07:40 AM

Hi Just Diann, welcome to the forum. I admire your courage for getting out of this relationship which obviously would only cause your further harm. Did you have a hard time finding a therapist that could understand what you are up against?

You didn't mention if you have any children with this P?

It seems very typical that P's get their next victim lined up so that they have a new target to support them.

Did your husband ever work?

I would guess your X really used his charm to con his next victim. Even though she was a part of the break up, it is probably the best thing that could have happened for you. I feel sorry for her even though her bahaviour was bad, the power of a P can be so charming and who knows what he told her about your relationship. Beware if things or when things go wrong with their relationship, P's are likely to try to worm their way back into your life. I admire your courage and getting help.

Do you recall what some of your first clues were that your X was a Psychopath?

Posted by: dragonfly

Re: My Story - Part Two - 08/27/05 01:08 AM

I am new here. My last 2 husband and fiance were all psychopathic killers. How I attracted that I really do not know. First one was when I was 18 and married 4 yrs. Second one I was 25 and married 21 yrs. fiance 4 on death row. 2nd X spend $400,000.00 of my inheritance for his business as I was bedridden with unusual illness.then cheated and lied for years,got abusive and I let him broke and sick..but glad I got away. First X is still world wide drug lord I hear. fiance,took 3 yrs. before bringing me into his world and family of Mofia. I am intelligent and even look hard 3 yrs. for clues after my first 2 marriages and saw none UNTIL he asked me to marry him and I said yes. I am interested in relating,sharing and learning all I can so not to attract these types again. Friends tell me I ought to write a book!
Posted by: Ursula27

Re: My Story - Part Two - 12/09/05 04:25 PM

I hope I did this right and that this message reaches everyone. I found this sight this evening and am hopeful and frightened at the same time. I am frightened of daring to hope...
I will refer to him as Edward. When I was 12 years old he asked a mutual friend to introduce us. I wasn't allowed to date. My friend gave him my number and he called my house and insisted on having long conversations. He insisted on telling me that every opinion I had ever held was absolutly wrong and unfounded. He had a forceful and aggressive personality. My mother asked me to tell him to stop callng. I did, but he continued to call me many times a day. I hid these from my mother by turning the ringer off the phone.
Posted by: Ursula27

Re: My Story - Part Two - 12/09/05 05:26 PM

I hope I did this right and that this message reaches everyone. I found this sight this evening and am hopeful and frightened at the same time. I am frightened of daring to hope...
I will refer to him as Edward. When I was 12 years old he asked a mutual friend to introduce us. I wasn't allowed to date. My friend gave him my number and he called my house and insisted on having long conversations. He insisted on telling me that every opinion I had ever held was absolutly wrong and unfounded. He had a forceful and aggressive personality. My mother asked me to tell him to stop callng. I did, but he continued to call me many times a day. I hid these from my mother by turning the ringer off the phone. Sorry think I accidentally entered this wrong and may appear as two posts. Anyhow, when my mother picked up the phone (because it couldn't be turned off all the time) I talked to him. I didn't like him, but he seemed completely fixated on me and was determined that we have a relationship. I didn't want my parents to blame me as they were over-restrictive to begin with, so I hid his phone calls. He asked me to be his girlfriend. I obliged, but then he 'dumped' me 3 days later. He was always fighting other kids in school and never got along with authorities. He spoke confidently and used big words and thought he could schmooze teachers into believing he was well-meaning but few bought into it. My parents took me out of the area for a year and a half and I met him when I returned back to the same school. Now fourteen years old he seemed nicer, less prone to being mean and tempermental. He asked me out and I said yes, this time thinking he could actually be a real friend. His niceness was short lived. He would turn on me without warning and, even for a teenager, could slice and dice me with his words. He had a way of cuttting straight to the heart of a matter unlike anyone I've ever known in a way that is so cruel and mean. The point of his questions was always to point out that I was morally weak, etc., so that I would help him achieve whatever end he was looking for. He taught me how to kiss and how to engage in "petting". We talked for hours every day and were so close to each other there was hardly any room for me to breathe. Suddenly he broke up with me after 4 months. He claimed he had another girl. He then asked me back out. Never having experienced the depth of sadness and hurt I had just felt, I accepted. Five months later he did the same thing. He had another girl again, but this time did not ask me back out. He remained just as close with me as he had always done. We talked for hours, spent time together and shared everything with each other. For several years he had a different serious girlfriend each year. Each grew desperately in love with him despite his annoying traits, meanness, visciousness and sudden temper. He was like a drug that made one feel higher than the sky. I felt lifeless when we were apart. He made me feel things that I didn't think normal people could or should feel. A once very confident young girl, I would start to cry if he called me several hours after he said he would. I just wouldn't know what to do with myself and would feel so empty. Inwardly I nursed feelings that I was inadequate in ways that my parents and teachers were not detecting. I was jealous of his girlfriends, but maintained a huge distance, never speaking to them. The destructivness of Edward in my life reached its peak and I decided it was time to break free. While not his girlfriend, I dated other men. One by one these men dumped me because of intimidation directly from Edward. Edward told them to break up and would threaten them if they did not. So they did. I was lonely and still in love with him and hating the part of me that wanted him. I broke all ties with him, but I still lived at home. He called my mother's house endlessly, posing as the police, creditors employers or anyone else he thought would make me speak to him. He would call collect from God knows where. I refused to answer. I became involved with a young man that I was deeply interested in instead. I was eighteen years old. Edward would continue to pester my parents house even after I married and moved away. Six years passed and we had not spoken a word to one another... Edward knew why I refused to speak, I had told him so many times before. Each time he had worn me down with phone messages and letters sent to me through friends that I would give in. Not this time.
I was married to Brian and we had build a house. We had no children. Things were not going well for us. Brian turned out to be verbally abusive and cruel. I had been planning to get a divorce from him. This was painful, given that we were together since I stopped talking to Edward. I had had a long sickness with Gall Bladder disease which went undiagnosed for two years and was in pain most of the time. I felt isolated and like no one cared about me. One day while visiting my mother Edward called me. I wrote down his number, just out of curiosity. When I called him, now at age 24 he seemed so different... So mature, charming and flattering. He missed me and wanted to catch up, as two grown up friends would do. Quickly he said he could intuit that I was unhappily married and that I would be needing him. He started almost immediately to work on me that I come and move in with him. We could get married... I was still married. No, I said, this is not right. This isn't how this works. Brian needs to end this marriage, not you. He continued to try to get me to 'marry him' for about two and half months until his phone calls stopped. 2 weeks later he announced that he was married. he had just found the right one two months earlier and they had to marry quickly because of how in love they were. Feeling that my environment had the potential for abuse, I was shattered. How could he leave me there like that. Was he courting both of us at the same time? He still sounded so mature and grown up and he actually managed to explain his actions in a way that it made sense for me to still be his friend. We spoke on and off for the next year and a half. Now very sick with an infected gall bladder i was put in the hospital. When I came out it would be a short wait until my surgery. I was terrified at the prospect of my first operation. I called him to say hello. What began innocently enough on my part soon turned serious. my 1 phone call led to him calling me every night wanting to talk. I told him these conversations had to stop. Brian had cleaned up his act to an acceptable degree and I felt, as strange as it seemed, like I was falling in love with him. He said he knew, the same was happening to him as well. He said he was in a pickle now, because he wasn't being fair to me or to his wife. What a heady feeling! He filled me up with his 'you're the woman I'm mean to to be with' nonsense. I was firm nevertheless. Shortly thereafter he announced that his wife had an affair. He was almost in tears and very upset and needed a friend. The conversations continued. I told him I would never leave Brian for him. Brian had to end the marriage on his own. I would not leave for Edward. Edward continued undaunted about the affair and how his heart was broken and divorce was a certainty. She had recently had a baby. After my surgery he asked that we see one another. When we did, I couldn't believe that he was trying to come on to me in a physical way. I declined. HIs phone calls stopped and I could not believe how depressed I became. Anything to have him please call me again. He called and said his cell phone had had problems. Could we see each other again. Of course. This time he tried again and I was less resistant. It was so hard because of the marital problems and the fact that we had been intimate when we were young. He overcame every objection I had. I'm not blaming him, but it was something I didn't want to do, yet somehow he set up the entire situation. We began to see more and more of each other. He would set things up to where we would not have sex with each other, but he always acted like he wanted to, but just didn't have time or whatever. Soon he asked me for $300. It was the first time he had ever asked me for money. He would have the money in a week so I used the money we saved to pay our house taxes. I never lent this much money to another human being in my life before. He kissed me and complimented me and said how much he wanted to 'you know', but didn't have time. It was alright, we were lifelong friends. Next week he's talking about a certain type of drug and how he wants to purchase it for $300. I demaned my money. He said he had it, but his ATM card wasn't working. I went home in anger. Then we met again and he took me to a nightclub that I desperately did not want to be at. I asked him to take me home. He said sure, he'd be back in a minute. Scared to be lost without him, I went to where the car was parked to see it was gone. Long story short, he had left the club. He never came back that night. I got a taxi to take me home and I barely had any money on me. He came up with a story about his needing to go somewhere close real quick and being pulled over for DUI and getting arrested. he intented to come back, but now could he have $500 for bail. I said sure, but had no intention of doing this. I said Western Union was closed. Next day he was 'out' and said his sister bailed him out. All lies, he never went to jail, and I was pretty sure he went off with young girl that night, but couldn't be sure. We saw each other again and he started to want to do strange sexual things with me, he ended by saying that I should do everything he ever told me to do because he knew what was best for me at all times. My husband found out about the contact with Edward and became frighteningly angry. In a split second decision,I moved all my things out of our house while he was at work. Brian was devastated. He begged for a chance. Everytime I talked to Edward I could hear his wife in the background asking him mundane things. They didn't sound unhappy. It seemed as if he was lying to me. Everyday he told me they were finished. In roughly six weeks I went from a monogomous married woman to a single woman who was desperate for the attention of a married man. What had happened? I was living on the streets and went to a homeless shelter to stay. My house was up for sale, my parents and family devastated, not to mention church and friends. Edward was a secret, because he kept himself carefully hidden and would not be seen with me in public unless they were places he specifically chose. 1 week after I moved my things out, I took my cash savings and had been searching for a lawyer. That evening Edward invited me over so he could 'console' me. Instead he intimidated me to drink alcochol, made fun of me. I went to the bathroom and when I came back my savings were gone. He claimed I was drunk and was raving. My life had never been so aimless and low. He laughed to his two friends about a friend he had ripped off similarly who then had asked him to help him find the money. They laughed hysterically. The most painful part of the story ends here. This has been a little over a year ago. I have enjoyed various promotions at my job and have had a reconcilliation with Brian. A marriage ten times better than the first one had been enjoyed by us and we have a new house. Relationships have improved with family, although some think me to be like the one I was involved with. It is difficult to blame someone in this society. We are taught to accept blame, but I swear to God this was not my fault. I never intended to have an 'affair' and I thank God I never had sex with him, because I only realized later how many other women he was fooling around with while he was married. He had three children by 3 women by age 25 and did not care 2 cents for any of them. He used them to garnish sympathy from me and others. He used them to show what a caring father he was, etc., Does this sound like a psychopath or just a cruel foul-tempered person? He continues to call people whose numbers he had, I will never speak to him again. My life is normal again and his, who knows... Even so the pain lingers on. He almost ruined my life. My family is caring but they truly do not understand the hurt and the suffering when it seems that someone knows and cares about you deeply and then destroys you. I feel that he is the person I have loved most in life, even though I know love never entered into it. It was pure maniupulation. How long does this take to get over? He has twisted my mind in so many ways and I have nightmares of him coming to me and dragging me off with him. PLease any imput is appreciated more than you will ever realize. Ursula
Posted by: sylvie25

Re: My Story - Part Two - 12/10/05 05:32 AM

Hi Ursula,

Welcome - I’m glad you found the board. I’m sorry that you went through such a terrible time with this individual. You asked if he sounds like a psychopath. We tend to stay away from trying to diagnose people here but really the main consideration is that he seems to have been a very negative force in your life.

By your own words (and recognition), you have described his behaviour as lying, cheating, thieving just for starters. Your best bet is to have absolutely no contact with him at all. It seems as if in the past, he has repeatedly drawn you back into his world and it always seems to have ended up with you feeling terrible (with good reason it seems).

I encourage you to read Tiasa’s “I was "IN LUV?" with a Psychopath/con-artist!” thread on this board. It sounds like there are parallels between your experiences. Here’s the link below:

You’ve been through a very difficult experience but you also had the strength to take yourself out of it. That’s says a lot about your character and resilience. As far as blame, people with these destructive but charming personalities fool the best of us. That’s what they do and they’re very good at it. Try not to beat yourself up over it. It’s difficult to say how long it will take to get over it because we all have different personalities but time really is a sound healer.

If it seems like your thoughts often go back to this experience and upset you in the process, try to distract yourself when that happens, whether it’s with music or reading or anything else that you enjoy and may find soothing.

Take care of yourself,

Posted by: Dianne E.

Re: My story - 12/14/05 11:42 AM

07/16/05 07:22 AM

Hi I am new - My Story

Hi, I am new here - though some of you may know me from other boards. I am just gonna jump in here because after reading many of your posts & responses I feel o.k. about sharing this.

The abuser in my life has many other victims and is destroying lives. He has two small kids and a wife who are being destroyed as well. I wasn't random like many internet predator abusers - I was TARGETED!- by someone I had known for over 25 years.

The Set-Up
The man I speak of is named J. We were intimate briefly in undergrad school. He left to go to another school and I didn’t hear from him until April 2002, when he emailed me "out of the blue." Seems he got my email address from where J has contacted other old friends, too.

He was currently unemployed (formerly the publisher of a children's magazine) so had the time to IM me every day. We caught up and J quickly initiated an emotional affair. He found out that I have a child, am disabled and divorcing due to verbal and emotional abuse. He was extremely sympathetic about other abusive relationships I had been trapped in and my new internet “love” couldn't have been nicer. As soon as I got comfortable with this emotional cyber affair, the love bombing began.

Love Bombing Begins
This man likes cybersex and initiated it with me rapidly. I told him to slow down, I wanted lunch or coffee with him, a face to face, in order to catch up. “You’re moving too fast,” I told him. J began pushing to meet me at a hotel right away but I told him no. So he refused to see me! Even tho I was 10 minutes from his office (when he found work again), he kept telling me he "couldn't control himself" around me. The “no lunch” but “meet me in a hotel,” was confusing, especially since I was convinced we were “falling in love” again.

J told me he couldn’t see me socially because, "I’ll have to make some hard decisions about my marriage even if we just see each other as friends.”

I told him I was not comfortable getting involved with someone who was married with children. After my reality shots, he would distance himself from me for a few weeks and come back with a vengeance. J used a lot of "confusing talk" with me and then played dumb. He would twist things, making it seem like I was acting overbearing and aggressive when he had initiated and encouraged my interest.

This man elicited sympathy from me by saying that ADHD was his "problem." He has told me he is on Wellbutrin, and called them his "happy pills." My new cyber love-interest also bragged that he had a friend whose mom worked at Pfizer so he could get his Vitamin V (Viagra). This he needed, you understand, because his wife was so cold and unfeeling towards him. He shared these things with me not as "sob stories" mind you, but as one old friend telling another the truth about how their life had turned out.

He Lectured Me on Morality
In September 2002 my estranged husband found some files on my computer regarding this emotional affair. The abuse from my ex escalated. Because of my feelings for J, I defended him. Sharing my predicament with J, his response was to distance himself for weeks. When he contacted me again, it was as if the emotional stuff between us NEVER happened. When I did bring it up, I got MORALITY lectures as if I was the one who began this “affair.”

As many abused women do, I rationalized it. I remembered him as a very sweet, quirky person in college. He had been the great love of my life and it was easy to be grateful for the attention and friendship and rationalize away his inconsistencies. I continued to encourage him to speak frankly with his wife about his feelings and needs. We continued talking for many months as friends.

J admitted to me he was addicted to online-porn, roll-playing and masturbating. He masturbated to me live on web cam once (NOT at my request) and sent me pictures of his penis and a number of pornographic images. These I deleted immediately but allowed him to send in the name of friendship. He started requesting I do things for him on web cam all the while telling me it was "the only safe way we could be together." I was very hesitant, confused and unable to identify the game. He would then apologize profusely for even asking.

He might say what we were doing was o.k. and then the next day or even an hour later act like he didn't remember what had happened. Sometimes he’d trivialize our cybersex. Many times he told me he was 'sick' and 'needed help' but when I offered to help he placated me and did nothing. He made it seem like I was PUSHING him sexually when the total opposite was true. Astonishingly, J even told me, "I look at every woman like they are just a hole." Do these guys even remember who they are talking to? Do we?

I realize now, he's a Sex Addict
Obviously, I realize now, he's a sex addict, among other things. The things he wanted me to do became rougher and cruder and I started to say “No” to him again. Even tho I had had a prior relationship with him, this was ALL waaaay out of character for me. I even stopped speaking to him for weeks at a time because I was so uncomfortable. I was vulnerable and flattered by his interest so I kept forgiving and going back, telling myself, “After all, we are good friends.”

I wanted desperately to see him and eventually gave an ultimatum. Finally, we ended up having lunch--just once, in Manhattan in Sept. 2003. It didn’t go well. J was stand-offish and didn’t look me in the eye. The conversation revolved around pleasantries with ZERO acknowledgement of what had passed between us. He positioned us at a table where he could sit FAR away from me. Besides the remoteness and stinging reserve, the most disturbing thing he did was upon leaving. There was a short flight of stairs to negotiate. I gingerly walked by the wall so I could steady myself. Due to my disability, my legs aren't always reliable. Rather that stepping in and helping me, like most normal people do, he stood at the bottom of the stairs and backed away like I was a monster.

I cried in the car on the way home. This is a pattern for most abused women. They get charmed into an emotional attachment, allow abuse in the name of love or loyalty, get hurt and begin to doubt themselves and their worth, then rationalize away the abuse when the charm is turned on again, and finally, insanely, they think they can help the guy understand what he has done and help him change! We are good natured, loyal and loving idiots regarding this pattern. Sad to say, I allowed myself to become part of the pattern again, even after this lunch that demonstrated his true and evil character.

I introduced him to his next target
J also fancies himself a writer. He writes extensively on ethics, morals and religions and has his own website. In January 2004 he wrote an article that I helped him with. I then introduced him to an online female friend in California who is also involved with Jewish issues. She helped place his article in a couple more places.

I eventually learned that shortly after I introduced them, J initiated an online affair with her. She ALSO comes from an unhappy marriage and a background of abuse so, once again was an easy target for him. Ironically, he came with my recommendation! She stopped talking to me for weeks, and finally IM'd me to ask me a question about him. One thing led to another and after 36 hours of no sleep, here's what came out of that marathon conversation:

He was going to see her in San Francisco (he had to go there on business so his work would pick up the tab for his liaison) to start an actual affair and tried to prevent us from communicating. When this woman and I did talk, we realized J was weaving a tapestry of lies and conceit, the details of which are perplexing, often silly and sometimes painful. It became evident that he was a deeply sick person. Where the lies ended and the truth started, I doubt even he knew.

At this point, it was obvious even to me that this love of my life was, as I had suspected for some time, not “into” me. J had given her his business phone, his cell number and a variety of ways to contact him in only 5 weeks of knowing her. He did not do these things for me. Yet if I tried to discontinue the friendship with this realization that he wasn't INTO ME - he would come back and BOMB me with how much I meant to him and “please don't stop talking to me.“ It was easy to see his sickness and dysfunction; it was harder to get at my own. I was still being reeled in with the obsession that somehow I could help him and that he needed me.

When our sex/love addict 'friend' found out us girls had talked, he spent several days trying to call and smooth it out. Finally, he IM'd me threatening to tell my husband we'd had an actual affair and assured me he was a good liar (I kept a copy of this IM in case I ever needed to protect myself). The woman in California and I made a decision to turn all our information over to his wife and rabbi in hopes that they would intervene. This of course, fueled his anger and since I live the closest to him and J knows my address, I was and continue to be very scared. I doubt he would come and try to harm me, BUT I realize I don't really know this “love of my life” after all.

"I possess psychic powers and can touch women with my mind."

He once told me and a younger friend of mine (that he also tried to 'get jiggy’ with), “I possess psychic powers and can touch women with my mind.” J also said he was going to Israel to help with their politics and made a few "predictions." When I called him on these things he said he was only joking.

Then I got an email from a friend and they showed me some websites where J had been posting lurid reviews of at least 12 call girls he has seen in NYC. It simply confirmed that there was a heck of a lot more going on than just a couple bad online affairs. Some of these hookers he saw prior to me and some during. In one of our first conversations when he moaned about his wife I asked him if he'd ever been to a hooker. His reply? "Oh NO!!! I would never do THAT!! My wife and I have money and a good lifestyle and if she found out she would take the kids from me. Besides, it’s immoral." (can you hear me laughing?)

It seems J is registered at every "sex partners wanted for discreet relationship" site on the net. He makes no effort to hide that he is married, has kids or even exactly where he lives! This freaked me out because his wife works at home. Any psycho could go there and kill her and/or his kids.

What You Need to Know
He has had executive jobs with toy and child-related firms and currently works for a family magazine and travels extensively. J once told me he enjoys working in industries that focus around children. This worries me. I worry about the progression of sex addiction and if it may extend to children. Last summer he sent me and another friend, pictures of his 11 year old daughter in provocative poses in her bedroom saying he and she were just having fun. Disturbing.

Sex addiction is progressive and dangerous and I don’t know how far his has gone. He once sent me a photo from Halloween where he dressed as Spiderman, his penis visible through the costume in public. The woman in California sent me a homemade porn video he made of himself and one of the pornographic e-cards he sent her. She also tried to turn these over to the FBI—thinking, like me, that the police might want to stop a man like this. They don’t. Or won’t. Or can’t. Who knows?

The Police Target the Girls, not the Guys
I finally called the Computer Crimes division and made a trip to their offices. They took everything from me and thanked me profusely (a big change from my local precinct). One of his online escort booking agencies was busted and his favorite madam was arrested in a very public trial. This female sociopath plead out to only one charge, but thank God for something. My local Dept of Investigation is involved, as well as the CPS and State Attorney General. But what galls me is, these agencies seem to have done ZERO about him or the other men who buy these escorts.

His Wife's Denial
His wife has been told everything but has probably been so abused and lied to by him she doesn't know what to believe. Because I haven’t kept his secrets and have contact with his other targets, J and his wife tried to charge me with harassment! Yet I had cut off contact long ago! By sending copies of everything I had on the guy to the detective they involved, J and his wife’s harassment accusations stopped.

I did find out he convinced his wife that I masterminded everything (LOL) and I planted it all. She's staying with him. He tried to tell people I was stalking him and the woman in California was harassing him. J is good at what he does, casting his demons onto others and convincing those in his life that HE is the victim. He has even posted things on his website aimed at anyone who tells the truth about him.

I did hear that J convinced his employer, his rabbi, and his family that I had been stalking him for years. Fortunately, I saved many of our conversations and IMs with the source codes so I can prove this is false, if need be. My tormentor also claimed that I planted the stuff on the escort review boards, but fortunately he paid with his credit card and the ISP information bares me out.

He treated me like a dirty secret
J's been snooping, 16 months later. He has emailed one my friends and has been found going to websites I frequent, no direct contact though. I am still being treated for PTSD to learn how to overcome my pain and memory of this. He's a sexual addict, a psychological sadist and yup - a sociopath.

He got me to keep his secret for two years - and treated me like a dirty secret in return. Don't fall for this. Nothing beats fresh air and sunshine to disinfect abuse.
Posted by: mindy

Re: My story - 02/13/06 03:43 PM

Hi all,

I have been meaning to tell my story here for the last month, ever since i joined - but haven't so far because i've either been too emotionally drained to write, or have been working at getting my life back in order and thus not wanting to relive or think about what happened with me. But now perhaps it's time i wrote this out.

My story has similarities to that of shattered4good - my 'romance' if i can call it that, was mainly thru the net.

I first met him 25 years ago, in college. I was 19, he was 20. He was funny, witty, intelligent and always had the rest of us - his classmates - in splits with his jokes.

I came from a protected, conservative life, and meeting openly and freely with boys, as i could do in college, was a novelty for me.

This person - i shall call him B - was among the first i spoke to. He was clearly attracted to me - and i found that attractive. There was also something different about him - something darker, deeper, sadder perhaps - i don't know. whatever it was, it made me more aware of him.

one day, in conversation, it came out that he had no TV at home - there was a big event that was being televised nationally and he wanted to see it. I invited him home.

He accepted my invitation and came. He had taken special trouble for the occasion - clean shirt, neat hair etc. He was awkward and diffident with my family, and their instant reaction to him was one of dislike. Anyway. He came and we sat in the downstairs room and watched tv and when the programme was over, he left. i watched him go. Then my grandmother took me aside and told me. 'Don't be friends with that boy. There is something in his eyes that is not quite right.' That spooked me.

After this, his attentions became more persistent. I disliked it. There was casual physical contact - his hand brushing against mine, or he sitting too close to me 'accidentally' and so on. I hated it. I made it clear to him in many ways that his attentions were unwelcome. He started waiting at the bus stop for me - and getting into the sam ebus as i. initially i dismissed thsi as coincidence - but when it kept happening i became very uncomfortable, and stopped taking that bus to college. Once, he escorted me home after a late nite college do. I accepted his escort because it was really late, and i was desperate to get home before i crossed my curfew limit at home. he was courteous, kind and considerate, and reached me home safely. But i still did not welcome his attentions.

Now, the strange bit - i seem to have blanked out much of what happened between him and me those 3 years. Friends tell me of the time when he stated to me how he felt about me, and i got up and ran away. i don't rememeber this, but several people hav etold me they clearly remeber this happening, and how upset i was later. I do remember what i think was the last time i ever spoke directly to him whilst still in college: he cam eup to me one morning before class and held out a book. 'Do u want to read thsi? ' he asked. I replied, 'No, i have enough to read right now.' I did not want to borrow his book. He insisted, saying i could keep it. I noticed then that it was a library book, and pointed that out to him, saying he would need to return it. he laughed and said no, he had stolen it out of the library, and had got it specially for me. I took the book and threw it on the floor, saying i did not want it. He shrugged an dsaid, 'Well, i don't want it either.' I walked away in one direction, he in another. Shortly after i heard he was seeing someone seriously.

Some things to be noted:

1. his stealing of the library book - he used to do this regularly - steal books from libraries and bookshops. it is tempting to point this out as an early warning - but i would not do so. Stealing books was a macho game amongst many of the college boys. Besides, he loved reading, and was seldom able to afford buying a book.

2. i came to know much much later that the two years he bothered me with his attention in college were the exact two years he was seeing this other girl. Ironically, this girl went on to marry one of my closest friends, and is one of my dearest friends today. Unfortunately, at that time i did not know her well, so we never spoke. Later, much later, after he ruined my happiness and peac eof mind, i told thsi friend all that had happened. that is when she told me for the first time the treu story of what had happened with her. He had behaved with her in almost exactly the selfsame way he had behaved with me, right down to using the same words and phrases. she hurt badly when she heard what he had done to me - she hurt for me, and for herself. And I, when i heard her story, felt a blazing anger within me against him which i had not done on my own account, but did on hers.

I have no further memories of him till twenty years later, in the autumn of 2004, when he came back into my life thru an alumni college group. he sent out a general mail to the inetrnet group - of which i was moderator. I replied, welcoming him on board, and then - and this is where one starts believing in karma - i wrote him a personal mail, saying hello, and asking him how he was and where he had been all these years. He wrote back - cheerful, friendly. I thought that 20 years had mellowed him, after all we had all grown up, and it would be good to talk. So iwrote back. We began having an interesting conversation - which extended over perhaps 2 or 3 days. He told me how wonderful it was to talk thsi way, and how he felt so much ease in writing to me and how he could tell me anything. Soon after, he was talking of love. I was surprised, and flattered, but didn't quite believe it could be anything beyond a light flirtation. But he was persistent. He kept at it till he had me, till all my defences broke down. i admit, at that time, i was so vulenrable, so alone, that those defences were crazily easily to breach. Then, he wrote, "I have a lot of darkness within me, my love. It is going to come your way, lost and lots of it." I knew his story - his abusive, alcoholic father and the tragic suicide of his mother, and his finding her hanging from the ceiling when he came back from school. I said nothing, except that i was there for him, and would be, an dloved him enough to take his darkness. he then wrote a long long letter, telling me about his mother's suicide and what happened straight after that.

Note this:
1. he wrote the letter as though he was confiding all this to me, and had never spoken of it to anyone else, or at laest not to too many others. Fact is, all that he wrote was knowledge in the public domain. Everyone knew what had happened in his life, and had known for years

2. he told me much of what he did - lived alone for a while, left the house, found a job, supported himself thru college etc. Not once did he tell me how he felt. And never, in all the conversations, did he express love, sorrow, regret around his mother. He told me once of how she would beat him if he didn't do as well in school as she wanted him to, and how he felt her life had been a waste. that was all.

So far, he sounds not to bad, maybe?

After thsi he became more importunate. He would mail me nonstop thru the day. i fi took more than 10 minutes to respond i would be flooded with a stream of 'where are you, why haven't u replied' mails till i did reply. slowly but surely he took over my life. nothing else mattered - he left em no time for anything else. work, food,sleep, family, friends, all slowly ceased to exist in my world. he became more an dmore important.

i am so tired writing this - but i shall continue.

at the time my marriage was in bad shape. he helped to break it up further by begging me every day to take a divorce and leave. of course, he could not be with me straight away - he had a small son an dneeded hsi son to grow up so he could explain to him why Daddy had to go away with a strange woman - but that i should leave at once. the 'sex' started - first he asked me questiosn about what i was wearing, what myshampoo smelled like, what texture my clothes were, and so on. he sent me a pron site. i didn't understand and asked him to explain. he laughed and brushed it away an dmade sure he never went that way again. he got on t instant meesaging - and that's when the trouble truly began. he took over my mind completely - would start writing at 4 am nonstop till 3 pm. he wanted 'sex' all the time - would describe hsi reactiosn an ddesires in great detail to me, his erotic dreams and so on - all centred on me. i had never expereineced anything like thsi bombardment before. today i wonder how i bore it. but i was swept along by his passion, and his apparent total an dcomplete infatuation with me. and somehow, somewhere, i fell in love the way i never had before. it was a madness.

he began to plan a future. i asid it coudln't be. he brsuhed aside all my objections. i began believing him.

he asked me to go away with him for a few days. i said i couldn't, i didn't have a reason. he said he would craete areason, give me an assignemnt officially, and then i coudl go. i agreed. he began to plan. i was ready to leave.

then, i had to go for a mammogram - it was a follow up check for breast cancer (i had had a scare the previous year and was still under routime exams). he was tense an dkeyed up before i left for the exam. he sounded different. i said i'd have to leav ein a few minutes. he said 'good bye' i laughed and replied i hadn't gone - was still waiting for my taxi, that he was too uqick to say goodbye. i was joking. for me life was wonderful, perfect with him in it, and loving me the way he did. he asked, 'is that true my love? am i too quick to say goodbye?' i told him i was joking.

i went for my scan, cam eback, he messaged me, and asked the result, i told him it was clear. he was a bit peculiar in hsi response, i put it down to tension. fo rme now the way was clear. i was leaving home, children, marriage to be with him. i was ready to fly.

next day he vanished, totally diasppeared. i was frantic. he did not rsepond to anything. i called him. he hung up twice, then mumbled - 'do not call'. then he texted me - 'my son is ill'. i thought the child was dying. i went crazy with worry. he wouldn't respond. finally he wrote, saying it was over. his reason? his son had a cold and he felt that he really couldn't leave him for me. i couldn't believe it. a cold?! and not as though we had not talked about this before. we had gone over this over an dover - tehimpact on the children, and how to deal with their hurt, and he had assured me we would somehow do thsi right an dbe together. suddenly, no more. he was done.

i went crazy. i called him. he hung up on me 21 times, and finally answered to say he couldn't talk tome any more.

thsi was teh beginnibg - of so much hurt, humiliationa nd abuse that i find it hard to put down. finally, i found teh strength to break away. that's when i started talkig to friends about what had happened to me. that's when so much truth cam eout, so many of his lies were exposed. that's when the pain REALLY started, when i understood at last what he had been all about. A friend listened to teh deatisl of my inetraction - which i ahven't teh strength to wriet here, even now - and said 'his behaviour apttern si that of an abuser - if not physiacll violence, then definitely emotioanl abuse. he is beyond help. he is a psychopath.' that was the beginning fo my quest to undersatnd what the term 'psychopath' really meant. the friend who said thsi works with abusedw omen an dchildren, and is qualified to knwo such things. anyway - the followed months an dmonths of heartache and the fight against the destruction eh ad set up in my soul. i spoke to as many peopel who knew him a si could. when they heard my story they told me theirs - tales of grief an ddarkness an dhurta nd paina nd humilaition. i found dr hare's check list. i raed up all i could. at last the pattern began to emerge, the pieces began to fit, an di realsied what i had been up against, how close to complete destruction i had been. then i found thsi forum - thsi helped me to heal - becauseall of u validated my feelings, did not run me down, said yes - such a thing si spossible, not meerly inthe mind of a woman who has been dumped, whose lover has moved on.

i have left out much - some of it i have rwitten about in other posts.

but broadly, this is the outlin eo fmy story. many of teh deatils all of u will be able to fill. thsi man, who i thought was the love of my life, is truly a psychopath - heartless, remorseless, guiltless. he checks out on all but two of dr hare'slist - and thsoe two pertain to childhood matters i don'thav einformation on.

i am exhausted - emotionally an dmentally. forgive teh typos. i hope thsi helps someone, somewhere, deal with the pain an ddestruction such people give thsoe
who care about tehm teh most. i still hurt, writing thsi. but i hav eno tears left. nothing.

Posted by: kludgette

Re: My Story - Part Two - 12/05/06 02:29 PM

I had to reply to a post - as it would not let me start a new post.

I'm wondering how this condition affects children. What is the visitation usually awarded to a Psychopath? I ask my Psychopath to leave because of his treatment of her (and he is VERY clear on that - I do have proof). We setup a mini visitation schedule that seems to work only intermittently - no overnights, a couple of hours 2 and 3 times a week. I set it up with the understanding that visitation would be with his mother - or my ex-brother-in-law whom he has lived with twice since he left. I've had to on occassion try to force him to see her (as she wanted to see him), but that backfires (he'll refuse). He's had freedom to request overnights over the past 11 months but only did so 3 times. Two times for sleepovers at new girlfriends (2 and 3 weeks) which I said no (both relationships ended about 4 wks later) and once at his parents (while he was living at ex-brother-in-laws house).

He teaches our daughter to cuss - knowing that bothers me, encourages public nudity - again to get to me and treats her with anger and indifference (SIT DOWN SHUT UP I'M WATCHING A MOVIE!). Watching "we were soliders" is one my 3 year old saw with him after he left. She actually said "dismembered body parts". He posted girly nude pictures all over his bedroom to her dismay then denied they existed (taking them down the next week). He believes it is perfectly acceptable to parent in two completely opposite ends of the spectrum (rules, discipline - he doesn't beleive in discipline - it's punishment and expectations). He got VERY angry when I signed her up for dance stating it was "girly". She needs to be "tough, be ready to fight and go nose to nose if need be". His job as a parent is to "Toughen her up (hurt her) before life does" - both physically and verbally. She was 2 when he started this. She was 12 months when she needed "strict discipline!" This visitation was voluntary. No court ordered it.

His "mask" came off after we realized I was pregnant - before the wedding date and therefore the wedding was canceled (by me). It was a horrible 3 1/2 years from the time I was pregnant until I asked him to leave. He was on anti-depressents breifly, and that helped some of the symptoms and made life tolerable. When he ran out (didn't tell me until he was taking 1 every other day), he felt that he was "cured" and didn't need them anymore. Then he really started letting loose on our little girl again...

I was able to keep this out of court...until he refused to return her to my care - she witnessed this. It scared her (and me) to death. On the advice of my attorney I informed him that visitation would have to cease indefinately. I had to press telephone harrasement charges on him, he called the police on me to "check on her welfare"...fortunately the officer that responded had been involved in several cases of him beating up co-workers (one 60yrs old - he's late 20's). His father owns the company, so they never press charges however. He started court procedings despite my attempts to get him to resume limited visitation (which he refused). He didn't see her for 7 weeks because he wasn't going to do it my way - he needed the control...asked me "when are you going to realize that YOU are not in control!".

The court decided to make a decision without a hearing despite an attempted kidnapping him and his mother were involved in with our daughter, despite his last refusal to return her, despite the fact that she has knowledge of oral sex stating her boyfriend would lick her down there when she gets older, etc etc. I'm glad he started there have been MANY issues I have been unable to address. If I ask him to stop cussing in front of her (because her language was becoming a BIG problem), he only cusses more and tells her it is OK to do it too. If I ask him to not encourage public nudity...he'll do it right in front of my face. If I ask that he refrain from introducing girlfriends after 1 week, he'll try to get Taylor to spend that night at the girlfriends house after the second (or third) week. It's insane.

I feel bad for him...but I know he can't help it nor be helped. I am putting in a motion for a pshyc eval...I don't think he can fool them though he'll try. He can cry on command, loves it when people say "Poor (name), I feel so bad for you". He is not capable of being self supportive - currently lives with his parents (his 7th home in 11 months). I know once court is over, the first weekend will be spent at a new girlfriends house - and if he has overnights..she will be there too - it will likely be the 2nd or 3rd time she's met the girlfriend. Right now he is limited in visitation that is "family only", and can't drive due to a DUI he got the morning of her birthday. His parents are financing his court efforts even though his mom told me prior to our separation to "do whatever you have to to protect that little girl from him. I respect you for what are doing, will respect you for asking him to leave and only wish I would have had the balls to stand up to his father as you are standing up to him". His sister who has been brought to tears by his treament of her children and even once blocked my number from calling due to abusive/screaming/ranting phone calls from him also is standing behind him with full force.

I could go on forever with oddities and fears I have of this man. After his mask came off, I did whatever I could to appease him and keep him around until our daughter was old enough to feed herself if need be, and tell me if he hurts her. I hoped to protect her from him to the best of my abilities - knowing once he is gone I can't keep her safe anymore. I know one of us will end up in the hospital because of him someday...I'm scared.

I paid the deposit on a Guardiam ad well spent, but right before Christmas. It hurts. Now the Pshyc eval is going to suck more of my much needed funds. I wish nothing more in life than our dauther to love him. For them to get along and be happy. But I don't know if it's possible. As my lawyer can't sue him to be a good father. I feel bad that I brought a child into this situation. I love her dearly of course and feel blessed to have her...I just wish she'd get to grow up with both her parents...together. I know his influence is ex b-i-l thinks he should have NO contact with her. My parents are in the same line of thinking. It's would make me feel horrible...but in some aspect I agree. He's tried to "deal" offering to take it out of court and "save you (me) money" by settling on shared Then he tried to say Tues, Thurs and every other weekend. I kicked him out for being an abusive parent. I can't imagine what will happen to her if he gets every other weekend. It's so hard to wipe his influences from her. When he didn't see for 7 weeks she started acting like a little girl again. Stopped saying she was ugly...stopped saying she was stupid...stopped saying she wanted to take her cloths off for men when she gets older (she's 4 now)...stopped cussing...actually WANTED to watch the wiggles (instead of adult type TV-which I don't allow), stopped yelling at me and hitting me, stopped raging. Psychopath isn't that bright. I hope that works in my daughters favor. I need the courts now to help me find her best interest. I'm just not sure if they are more worried about her...or "fathers rights". I'm in Ohio, so laws lean more towards the mother (especially when parents weren't married). I'm just wondering what others experience is on this.
Posted by: denfox

Re: My Story - Part Two - 12/06/06 08:27 PM

Dear Kludgette,

I do wish that I could offer you greater support. I am no expert in these matters, but as I read your story, I am deeply concerned for your child, and for you.

Is professional counseling economically possible for your child, and for you? I think that your four-year-old girl will definitely need some professional help now and probably in the future. Children are amazingly resilient, but they do not forget and those wounds inflicted in formative years can become larger problems in rebellious teens and adults.

I also think that this psychopath man has hurt you - though you didn't complain about yourself much - he must have hurt you more profoundly than you may even see now.

I do hope you're okay. I know you'll do everything possible to protect your child.

Posted by: kludgette

Re: My Story - Part Two - 12/07/06 07:07 AM

Thanks. I feel OK. Heartbroken for my broken family. But I got my strengh back (after his second time sucking out my soul) a year before he left and didn't let him touch me that way since. He's toyed with me some since leaving...I fell for a few of his mind games, but it was never real bad. If he'd call yelling and ranting accussing me of something, I'd just say call me back when you can speak without yelling and hang up. I basically treat him like a toddler. If that's what he's going to act like...that's what he'll be treated like. Both my mom and his mom used to is it tough rasing two kids alone? (meaning my Psychopath and child). Yup. Sure was. Much happier now!!!

I have talked to one counseling center...I can't for the life of me find her insurance card though (it's always in the same place).
Posted by: kludgette

Re: My Story - Part Two - 12/07/06 08:44 PM

Disturbing news. I got a second opinion on my case and was told I had no chance of protecting my daughter from her father. If I request he has a mental eval...I have to have one too. It would be around $4000-$5000 and I have to pay for it all. I'd have to sell my home to do that. She said all I could probably prove is that he is a bad parent...not unfit, thus visitation would be standard schedule J (one day a week every other weekend Fri-Sun), despite the witnesses I have which she called flimsy (all in a 1/2 hr meeting from a HIGHLY respected lawyer). She stated he could have sleepovers with 16 different women with our daughter there in one year and there was not a darn thing I or the courts could or would do about it (as long as she didn't watch them have sex). She said he could teach her to gory movies...hit, scream and he could scream at her and that is all his right as a father. I just don't think I buy that. My soul can't buy that. My stomach is in knots. I can't even describe how I feel today.

My lawyer seems more optimistic...but not much. I'm going to try and arrange a deal for a reasonable schedule that would give him the opportunity to request more time without giving it by default in exchange for less child support. Heck...I'd drop it all if he'd leave her alone (though I'd hope he'd still have SOME contact with her - just not court ordered).
Posted by: Dianne E.

Re: My Story - Part Two - 12/10/06 11:30 AM

Hi kludgette, I just wanted to let you know that I have read your posts and will have time later today to answer
Posted by: Dianne E.

Re: My Story - Part Two - 12/13/06 07:22 AM

Hi kludgette, I sincerely apologize. I have been battling a horrible migraine and I know I promised to answer a couple of days ago. Hopefully some of the members might see your post and offer some support, unless everyone is too busy, I will do everything I can to offer some support at least by tomorrow. Today is a bit better but I haven't meant to leave you hanging. I have only been checking in to make sure everything is okay and will get my brain unscrambled to reply soon.

All my best,

Posted by: just me

Re: My Story - Part Two - 02/08/07 09:49 AM

I have had the same, my boy is now 5 and I have a daughtrer (conceived by force) who is 3 and has Down Syndrome, I feel lucky that I have played him along for 2 years, and due to receive my reward, his mask is slipping and our court social services and my slicitor are supporting my request for no contact and a psychiatric assessment. Protecting the children has always been paramount,a part of my brain that he never got too. I now feel stronger than ever and ready to do battle. It certainly wont be easy, Im convinced I will end up in hospital for it, but if it gets rid of him, it will be worth it.
Posted by: Mati

Re: My Story - Part Two - 08/14/07 05:17 PM

Sorry but I could not find how to start a new thread, so I will just put it here.

I read this link yesterday and could not sleep last night I was so astounded at what it said about psychopathy being a neurological condition. It just fits my husband profile exactlyand is the first time that I have been 100% sure that he is a Psychopath.
Posted by: Mati

Re: My Story - Part Two - 08/16/07 11:51 AM

Hoping to start some discussion about the link I have given, it says that psychopathy is a neurological condition involving under stimulation of the cortex and a dysfunctional way of the brain organising information from the start of life. These defects mean that the conscience does not develop, but there is hope of a treatment. There is an electrical devise which can be inserted to stimulate the cortex.

One of the things that stood out for me was that my Psychopath took Ritalin and amphetamines and saw an amazing improvement. he said he felt normal for the first time. The effect did not last however. The article says this is what happens.

He also told me that he felt like he is in 'The Crystal Maze' (a tv show) trying to catch thoughts that are flying everywhere.

My Psychopath has a great deal of neurological problems which are exactly as this link describes. He was brought up in a stable family which means that he is not a 'raging Psychopath' but he does not have some of the traits unless he is lying. He always claims to really care about cruelty to animals and children and acts really upset about it. I suspect that it might be an act. Any ideas?
Posted by: leftoverbrains

My Story - Part Two - 08/19/07 04:02 PM

Hi All,

I feel ashamed because I'm still living with the psychopath and have no immediate plans to leave him. I have been out of the work force since our first child was born and don't have any marketable skills. I think leaving at this time would make things worse for me and the kids. I can't talk about this with my friends because I'm ashamed. I don't want it becoming part of the local grapevine because I'm afraid it will somehow affect my children. My Mom as well as other members of my extended family understand what is going on. They support me emotionally, but they live in other states.

The highly socialized psychopath has been seeing a psychiatrist for the last 18 months for ADHD. I did not suspect anything else was wrong with him when he first started going. He went because his lack of concentration was starting to affect him at work. He has been on ritalin ever since and it has helped his ADHD. Other than the ritalin, he does not take drugs or drink.

I met the psychopath in an electronic chat forum in the early 1990's. It wasn't through the "internet", but through a BBS that supported real time communication. We lived on opposite sides of the coast. I had been divorced for over 5 years. He said he had been divorced for about a year.

I eventually moved in with him and married him within 18 months. We had children together. I supported his career, including being patient through an internet start up company. The company was bought out by a much larger company, so we made a lot (I mean, a lot) of money in the form of stocks. We agreed to continue living our comfortable lifestyle only on his paycheck while allowing the windfall to grow under the guidance of a financial advisor. The money was supposed to take care of our children's education and his early retirement in about 10 years. We also hired an accountant and an estate planning lawyer to take care of certain things. During this time, I did not involve myself with paying bills, getting the mail, income taxes, etc. What was I doing? Supporting his career and taking care of and educating our children.

During this time, he seemed like the perfect husband - almost too perfect. He is the calmest person I have ever come across which for me is a good thing since I'm not. He doesn't get upset. He's very logical. He gets along with almost everyone.

Issues stared to come to light last October when he was away on a business trip. It was one of the few times over the past several years I had to get the mail. Normally, I dump the pile in a basket without going through it. When I saw something from the IRS, I decided to open it. Not only did we owe MAJOR taxes, they were late.

I called him about it. He said it was all a mistake. I called the IRS. It wasn't a mistake. But, he kept insisting it was. Then he told me the accountant was going to straighten things out. When I asked to speak with the accountant, he gave me a phone number that always ended up in voice mail. No one returned my calls.

When he came home, he kept insisting his story was true. I told him I was going to pull a credit report on him. He didn't seem bothered by it. He watched me go online, give his info and a credit card number. As soon as the transaction went through, he stomped out of the house. He is not the stomping kind of person, so this really bothered him. The report showed many charge accounts I was unaware of. The total balances of the cards was in the 6 figure range. All of the bills were paid on time, but with minimum amounts. There were two PO Boxes listed that I was unaware of.

At some point, he came back home all calm and collected. He said he was sorry and that he made a mistake. When I asked him about our financial portfolio, he said it was doing fine and that everything was still there. Within a week, I would find out it is all gone with nothing to show for it. I still have not gathered the energy to examine the paper trail on this.

He also closed out our joint checking account and opened a new one. I need to order several years of statements.

We had to sell off some assets in order to pay off the credit card debt and taxes. I talked to his psychiatrist on the phone about it. I told him he would not tell the truth about any of those things until I cornered him. He mentioned the term "psychopath" in passing.

I was going over the edge, so I made an appointment for my own therapist. She used the terms "Psychopath" and "narcissist" to describe him based on what I told her. That is when I started doing a lot of reading.

At the beginning of this year, I received a bill in the mail from his immigration lawyer, the immigration lawyer I didn't know about until several months after he hired him. The psychopath has been legally living in the US for the last 25 years. He told me the paperwork was too complicated for becoming a citizen, so he hired a lawyer to help. Anyhow, the bill was itemized. One of the items said: "Status of Divorce". I mistakenly thought he was trying to divorce me. He said the item was in reference to his divorce from his former wife. I told him I wanted to see his divorce papers. He said it would not be a problem. I didn't think it would be a big deal, either.

I terminated my therapy sessions because it was a one hour drive. It was not a good idea for me to drive because of severe anxiety. Even when I wasn't really thinking about the situation, I would find my hands shaking on the steering wheel from time to time.

Tax time was getting near. He kept telling me everything was fine. The accountant mistakenly (?) sent all of the paper work to the house. He included an email from the psychopath asking that everything be sent to his work office. There was a huge tax bill from the result of selling stocks in 2006. Although it upset me, it didn't surprise me. At that time, it suddenly occurred to me that it was very important I see some divorce papers. He did come up with some papers, but they didn't look right to me. It showed that his former wife filed for divorce. Child support documents were missing. I didn't see a judgment for a divorce.

My Mom ordered the divorce papers herself in June because I was too disorganized to do it myself. The psychopath reassured her over and over again that he was divorced and that I'm just upset and not thinking straight. My Mom received the papers. A final judgment did not exist. Papers were filed in the early 90's right before I started communicating with him through the BBS. They were not finalized. He is a bigamist. Some of those papers did not match the papers he did give me because he altered them. I didn't want him in the house anymore, so he willingly slept in the unfinished second floor of the detached workshop.

It turns out he started divorce proceedings in February, 2007. There is a statute in some state laws that allows for dating a divorce when it should have happened (nunc pro tunc). Sometimes papers get lost. Sometimes people are stupid. He and his wife filed as a stupid people. But, he's not stupid. He knew. It took him weeks to admit to me he knew. Well, he didn't come up with it. I just kept saying it over and over again until he no longer denied it. His reason? He doesn't have one.

The bigamy is the reason why he needed an immigration lawyer. He wanted to file for citizenship. One needs divorce papers in order to do this. He also needed a legal way to get out of his bigamy. Both of them knew. They knew for almost 15 years. I have never spoken with her. The psychopath was good at keeping us apart. Living very far from her helped with that. Their son is now 17 years old. The state actually gave them a divorce dated 2 days before the psychopath married me. At some point, I let him back into the house because it is very hot outside, even at night.

He continues to go to work, pay the bills, etc. He will cook, clean, etc., when I'm unable to which seems to be a lot these days. He keeps saying he is sorry. I know he isn't really sorry. He keeps telling me he won't lie, but he does. I told him when I catch him lying, he needs to leave the house.

He just got caught lying 2 days ago when I saw the document which outlines the child support agreement. It is twice the amount that he told me. He said he pays according to a verbal agreement, not the amount on paper. I don't think so. He is paying what it says and I don't know where the money is coming from. He has money somewhere, but I don't know where and he denies it. I have asked him not to be in the house again until he finds a psychiatrist who will treat him as a psychopath.

I did tell his current psychiatrist about the bigamy and other lies he told after our first conversation. He will not label him as a psychopath, Psychopath, or whatever term he personally uses to describe such people. I am to assume he had a bad childhood. I'm to assume it is possible for him to strengthen his conscience. I realize the doctor is there to advocate for his patient, but he really seems to ignore the fact there are 2 children in the crossfire. He ignores the fact that I am not in the position to help fix him.

There are other things. He controls my phone calls and internet usage through spying on me. Yes, I know how that sounds. He set up and is in charge of the phone system through VOIP technology. He is in charge of internet connectivity at our house. I never do or say anything to anyone that I wouldn't say to his face, so I don't know why he bothers. I find it very creepy, though. Of course, if I wanted to say something without him knowing, all I have to do is use a disposable phone, someone else's internet connection, etc.

The psychopath saw a different therapist last week. He is not a MD or a PhD. The psychopath claims that the therapist kept pressing for marital counseling even though he made it clear that I am unwilling and unable to take that step. The therapist did not want to work with him without marital counseling. If I'm going to spend the time and energy to get counseling, it will be for myself so I can figure out what I want and what I need to do to get there. The psychopath will not be working with that therapist.

The psychopath allegedly has a phone interview with a psychologist on Tuesday. The psychologist specializes in borderline personality disorder. He's not a borderline as far as I'm concerned.

I'm not sure what the future holds. I have a feeling I will need to divorce him because I don't think he will ever stop lying to me and I don't think I can tolerate it for the long haul. He doesn't beat me or the children. He is not a drug abuser. He hands me his paycheck for now. He appears willing to work with a doctor. He is worried that a label such as psychopath could get "out there" and affect his job, though.

One would never guess by looking at him or knowing him that he is a former bigamist of nearly 15 years, a forger, a thief, or a habitual liar. I also know there are probably many other things I am unaware of when it comes to this person.
Posted by: Dianne E.

Re: My Story - Part Two - 08/20/07 12:21 PM

Hi leftoverbrains, welcome to the forum, whew, what can I say. My first thoughts were along the line, the longer he is in charge of finances you will face losing more as the clock ticks with him in charge.

Sometimes it is a great idea to make a list of all the things that have been transpiring. Your list was an excellent view into your situation. Since he seems to be the marrying kind, he will move on once he has drained everything. As long as his lips are moving you can pretty much guarantee he is lying.

There is some sort of "spell" a Psychopath can put over a victim and in the middle of madness they can make people think they really have changed, yada, yada. If anything he will continue to get worse the more therapy he is involved in.

In the immediate time, I would consider getting your money locked up from any access by him. As long as a person is married depending on where you live you could be responsible for 1/2 of his debt. Maybe that will also help you get an entire picture of what he has been up to. It may be easier to let him worry about where he lives once you get a look at the entire picture he has been so cleverly shielding. I would suggest signing up for a credit report that shows you all three reports in a row. Easier to focus on.

The essence of a Psychopath is in the fraud and heartbreak all carried out without a conscience and blink of the eye.

I am glad you found us here.

Posted by: leftoverbrains

Re: My Story - Part Two - 08/20/07 08:57 PM

In reply to:

Hi leftoverbrains, welcome to the forum, whew, what can I say.

Hi Di and thanks for the welcome.

In reply to:

My first thoughts were along the line, the longer he is in charge of finances you will face losing more as the clock ticks with him in charge.

Psychopath willingly "allows" me to keep track of where every dime of his paycheck goes to. He insists that since I know how the paycheck is being spent, I am in charge of the finances. But, I realize this is just an illusion. There is money somewhere else, but I can't prove it. He has the kind of skills which allow for remote consultation, so I'm sure there is money there. I have told him what I think, but he tells me I'm wrong. He continues to operate under the assumption that I actually believe him even though I have told him otherwise.

In reply to:

Sometimes it is a great idea to make a list of all the things that have been transpiring. Your list was an excellent view into your situation. Since he seems to be the marrying kind, he will move on once he has drained everything.

He has drained everything except for a small amount I put away for myself. We are able to live comfortably on his paycheck. So far, he doesn't have a history of quitting his jobs on a whim. This seems to be the one area where he doesn't appear to burn his bridges.

In reply to:

As long as his lips are moving you can pretty much guarantee he is lying.

I wish it were that easy. He tells the truth 50% of the time. It's just that I don't know which 50% he is spewing at any given time. I tell myself (and him!) - I will develop my impressions based on his actions not words. He still asks me to believe him when he says something. Does he actually think I will start believing him if he says something enough times or is something disconnected in his brain or what?

In reply to:

There is some sort of "spell" a Psychopath can put over a victim and in the middle of madness they can make people think they really have changed, yada, yada. If anything he will continue to get worse the more therapy he is involved in.

I have read in more than one place that therapy tends to give the psychopath more manipulation tools to work with. When I accused him of manipulating his current therapist, he invited me to come to therapy with him. I won't do it right now because I don't think I will be able to maintain my composure. I will end up looking like a mess while he looks like he is put together.

He did something similar with my Mom. After the financial fiasco last year, I fell apart. He more or less convinced her that the only thing he ever did was spend too much money. When I started panicking about the divorce papers not appearing when I asked for them, he had my mom convinced I needed inpatient psychiatric help because I was becoming paranoid, delusional, etc. She offered to come and take care of the kids while I spent some time away. I told her he was setting me up so I would look incompetent and that she was helping him by believing him. Of course, she thought I was being paranoid. After she ordered the unfinished divorce for herself and discovered the truth, she apologized to me.

In reply to:

In the immediate time, I would consider getting your money locked up from any access by him.

I now have my own bank account with my Mom's name on it. The second he gives me trouble, she will close out the account and put it in her name. It's not a lot of money, but it's better than nothing. A very small part of his paycheck goes to my account and he knows it. He doesn't seem to care about it, but I really think it's because he has money elsewhere.

In reply to:

As long as a person is married depending on where you live you could be responsible for 1/2 of his debt.

If he has debt, it would have to be under an assumed name. I would not put him past aliases at this point!

In reply to:

Maybe that will also help you get an entire picture of what he has been up to. It may be easier to let him worry about where he lives once you get a look at the entire picture he has been so cleverly shielding.

I don't know why I feel pity for him when he leaves the house to sleep in the unfinished floor of the workshop after putting the kids to bed. I will not act on that pity anymore. I don't see him very much at all because he has a job to go to. When he is done with work, he spends time with one of the kids outside of the house. If I need to file for divorce, I don't want him to accuse me of keeping the kids away from him.

In reply to:

I would suggest signing up for a credit report that shows you all three reports in a row. Easier to focus on.

I started doing this last year and he knows it. If anything changes in his credit report, I will be notified. Something did change earlier in the year. There was a query from one of the larger banks in our area. Since there is not a new credit card or loan listed in the report, I think the bank ran a routine credit check on him because he opened a checking/savings account. Back then, he said the query was a mistake and that it needs to be removed. Of course, it is still there. I don't know how to go about finding out if someone has an account at a bank.

In reply to:

The essence of a Psychopath is in the fraud and heartbreak all carried out without a conscience and blink of the eye.

Yes. I know he has always played games and will continue to play games. I'm not sure what his strategy will be now that he knows I'm on to him. I don't believe he will stop. He will do things differently.
Posted by: Dianne E.

Re: My Story - Part Two - 08/21/07 12:17 AM

Hi leftoverbrains, he does indeed sound very "socialized".

On the credit report you want to look under inquiries. Anything is possible, he could have some new identity he is using that you don't know about. That however is not the solution by any means. He could be doing things on the side that may or may not show up on any credit alerts. Without a divorce and a more immediate way to stop any and all finances in their tracks, I wouldn't trust him for a second. As far as turning things over to your mom, keep in mind I am not a bank official or attorney. There would be a paper trail showing you stashing money that would be grabbed back in the divorce settlement. That puts you in an unfavorable light which could turn out making him have an argument of distrust of you not him. IOW, you need to be clever and not give him something to argue against you. Depending on the amount involved there are companies that specialize in finding assets if you have that suspision it is probably true.

No better at playing the victim than a Psychopath. I would ask myself, if I were without a place to live etc. would he help me?

I would also keep in mind that as far as taxes and someone correct me, they get split and if one doesn't pay they go after the other spouse.

It is hard to not look like the crazy one when dealing with a Psychopath. So much built up anger and end of hopes and more than likely suffering from PTSD.

Posted by: Dianne E.

Re: My Story - Part Two - 08/21/07 02:34 PM

Hi Mati,
In reply to:

he is not a 'raging Psychopath' but he does not have some of the traits unless he is lying. He always claims to really care about cruelty to animals and children and acts really upset about it. I suspect that it might be an act. Any ideas?

I would think that if you suspect it is an act it very well could be. I think the more socialized a Psychopath is, the more likely they can keep that mask on better.

Does he interact with an actual pet? Or are you saying something like you both watched a show on TV about abuse and he "acted" horrified?

Posted by: Mati

Re: My Story - Part Two - 08/22/07 01:37 AM

Hi Di

Thanks for the reply. We have always kept pets for the children. A lot of pets which he generally looked after. He took the dogs for walks. It is strange though, that the two dogs should have been totally faithful to him because I did not do much for them due to being sick so often, yet they always hung around me if we both together. They sat at my feet. And something else strange was, that the little ones like guinea pigs, had one or two 'accidents' through rough handling or dropping them which he said was accidental. He does have numbness in his hands though. The animals never seemed to live long though before succumbing to some fatal illness (genuine)

He always insisted on doing the looking after of them and it was a source of constant friction between us as I said that the boys should have some responsibility there if they had the benefit of owning them, but he would never give in at all. He is a vegetarian because he hates the thought of killing animals he says and the boys are too. They have a strange relationship with the pets, seemingly to prefer them to people and are devastated when one dies, a frequent occurance. They love the pets more than they have ever loved me. All strange.
Posted by: Dianne E.

Re: My Story - Part Two - 08/22/07 04:27 PM

Hi Mati, several questions popped into my mind. Do you think it is possible the hand excuse is just for purposes of misleading how an animal could suddently die?

It may be he liked (maybe he didn't like to really but he says he did, right?) to walk the dog to carry on some other activity he was keeping hidden?

I have a long history of rescuing animals etc. and am not really sure of the total amount like your x is having die but it seems quite high for such a person who proclaims their love of animals.

Posted by: Mati

Re: My Story - Part Two - 08/24/07 06:56 AM

Hi Di

None but one of the animals that suddenly died had signs of injury. Some of the little ones got cancer like rats but that is usual I think. But there was one that had a back injury and he said that it had jumped out of his hands.

At the time, I just could not understand one thing, they got the best of food, he cleaned them out every week, good quarters,vets attention, yet they did not look in good condition, they had dull coats and when I think back they did not look content. In fact two of the rabbits kept burrowing long tunnels to escape. It drove me crazy trying to work out why. It was like there was some sort of curse on them. I got him to clean out the water bottles carefully too suspecting that they could be the only answer. But here was always such a high death toll. Mostly they succumbed to some disease or just wasted away for no apparent reason. He was never interested like me to find an answer. He just accepted it and looked at me as though I was mad for trying to find a cause. Though he was like that over everything that now I see had a reason like why so much money went missing (drugs)

A reason for it could be to cause the boys suffering as they were always devastated when a pet died. That idea is just horrific to me. Surely not I want to think.

Maybe there was drug taking when he took the dog out.


Oh no! I have just remembered an incident after I left. They got a dog and apparently when he was walking it (over a busy road with no leash) it was hit by a car late at night. The driver was supposed to stop go to him and start shouting then drive off. He says he did not get the number. It was late at night so he got a taxi to take it to a vet and it was miraculously (ahem) only badly bruised. Now this story drove me crazy as it did not make sense. The car was supposed to be going at least 60mph. I asked why the dog was not leashed and he said it always stayed close to him to cross the road to a wooded area.

The dog was supposed to be thrown up in air and Psychopath said that some people living nearby heard the bang. But the dog lived!!??

As always I spent weeks trying to make sense of nonsense then gave up thinking about it. Unfortunately the boys (25 &21) believe everything he says. He would have been distraut and weeping copiously when it 'happened'.

I can hardly believe what I am thinking. It is a never-ending nightmare
Posted by: Jennifer

Re: My Story - Part Two - 03/15/09 06:53 PM

I need someone to talk to about what I am going through. My husband is a psychopath. He brutally assaulted our 4 month old twins and is incarcerated. I have since found out he was cheating on me throughout our entire marriage. He was having threesomes, etc.... I found out dirty and disgusting details. Everything he ever told me was a lie and I believed him. Yes I am seeking a divorce from him. He is still awaiting trial and is being held on a $350,000.00 bail. My world is a living hell right now and my poor babies suffered the most. One baby suffered intercranial bleeding and retinal hemmoraging and may have permanent brain damage. Not to mention the twins were three months premature. I really need someone to talk to. How do I get through all this? Where do I go from here? Can you live through something like this and ever return to a normal life? This is a high profile case and has hit local media and I have cried so much, I can't even begin to tell you. To find out I was married to a monster who hurt our babies and then learn your whole life was a lie. I am still in shock and grief.
Posted by: On My Own Again

Re: My Story - Part Two - 04/21/09 02:06 PM

I just found your post, Jennifer ... my heart goes out to you! You are really in a tough situation.

Yes, you can live through this and return to a normal life. Yes, you can. Yes, you will.

Read through the many many posts on this site and you'll find stories of women who have done just that. So many of the details in these stories are the same: Lying, cheating, stealing. Adultery. Pornography. Abuse.

Second, you are already moving along the path to a normal life by recognizing where the fault lies (and not taking blame for it yourself). That's a good sign that you are a healthy woman, mentally. Yes, you were married to a monster--but he's the monster, not you. You can't change him. It's not your fault. You are doing the right thing to get out of the marriage.

I pray that your babies recover fully and quickly.

Keep talking - let us know how you are.
Posted by: Yellowcurtains1

Re: My Story - Part Two - 08/02/09 08:43 AM

What a horrible man----I am so sorry for you----and I am glad that evil man is out of your life.
Posted by: Dianne E.

Re: My Story - Part Two - 08/02/09 09:15 AM

Hi Yellowcurtains1, I had a duh moment, I just posted under your question if your father is a Psychopath. It must have slipped my pea brain that I had already posted to you, sorry.

Posted by: searchin4help

Re: My story - 08/12/09 07:08 PM

Hi Everyone,

I am new to this site and I am looking for help and advice on how to make it threw the next moment. I have been in a relationship with my mate for 16 years and we have a son together. My family and I have been through a horrific experience which I dare not post. We managed to get through this life altering experience only to have him cheat on me yet again with a girl 1/2 his age. She and I have been in contact with each other and we know that he has been deceiving us both. Our plan is to confront him about his lies and move on with our lives. I guess the thing that bothers me most is their lack of emotions. I am worried that this (Psychopath) behavior will be passed on to my son. Can anyone provide any kind of promising news. His lies have destroyed and killed my soul.

Posted by: Anonymous

Re: My story - 08/13/09 03:08 AM

Hello Searching4help,

You don't sound well....
Now, the information you give is not very much or clear but when dealing with a psychopath it is not making any sense at all to try to confront them. Not even with the help of others.
The only thing you will achieve is you make him very clear where your vulnerabillities are and he will know even more how to use that knowledge to harrash you and the girl.

I don't know why people keep thinking they can out smart a psychopath or get them to feel something.... There are connections in the brain that are needed to make that happen. A psychopath doesn't have these connections. Therefor it is simply not possible for them to comprehend or do anything possitive with all the information you give them.
I know, people come to this forum to get the knowledge, but sometimes it is so clear already isn't it...
( I don't mean to attack you here in whatever form)

I am sorry to say it but we can't offer any promissing news, or advise any kind of therapy....Therapy will only get them more insight in the human brain and how it is working, and this knowlede will be abused again.
We all on the forum, have one advise only...NO CONTACT!
We say it over and over again, and will do for years to come.
Save your own live and that of children if they are involved and leave the psychopath

You speak about your son and then add;he lies and destroyed and killed my soul.
We do understand those words.
But are you telling this about your son or your partner?

Can I ask what information you have on psychopathy already and did you look at the checklist we have on this forum?
is your son the only child you have or are there more?

Alhtough I do know you want to do something to defent yourself or need some kind of clearness, I am convinsed, when your partner is a psychopath indeed, you will only be more frustrated.
The feeling you are looking for will only last a few moments. Maybe you have to think beyond that and see if it will be all worth it to go through, and probably will be humilliated again?

I wish you well, and please think it all through before taking a next step.

Posted by: Dianne E.

Re: My story - 08/13/09 10:14 AM

Hi Searching4help, welcome to the forum. Segaya has given you some very good advise. The more you can tell us here we can better understand your situation. Filling in the gaps, like how you met what some specific actions, where you stand financially. Does he come back when he needs money?


As a word of caution be careful what you say to this other woman, you aren't inside her head and you don't know if she might be conned again and expose what you have discussed which will be used as more ammunition against you by the Psychopath.

I know of a few victims that have been helped by working and speaking together about their experience as the victim of the same Psychopath. I don't know if this can be the case in every situation.
Posted by: searchin4help

Re: My story - 08/13/09 09:57 PM

I met my mate 16 years ago. He had actually just come off of his honeymoon 2 weeks prior to when we started to date. He at first said he didn't know why he was cheating but we continued the relationship. During this time, I was committed to just being with him. About 2 years into the relationship, I decided to see other people and this infuriated him. He claimed he was going to leave his wife until he found out I was cheating. Needless to say we continued our relationship. After 14 years his wife divorced him but only after she had repeatedly find out that we were together. Also by this time we had a son together and she just got tired of him. During this time we went thru hell and back. He was incarcerated on charges of sexual misconduct against my daughter. He was cleared of the allegations and I took him back. Shortly thereafter, he moved out with me and began apparently seeing this other woman who is 1/2 age and the same age as his oldest daughter. Keep in mind that his profession is law enforcement and he is 50 years old. I first discovered him texting her over a year and 1/2 ago and he promised that he would discontinue the relationship but of course that didn't happen. I caught him again in the parking lot of his job with this woman on his birthday which was last year May. He again promised he wasn't going to see her ago. Fast forward, here we are today. About two weeks ago I discovered that they were still together. My 5 year son found a pencil box that I hid the other woman's phone number stashed in and so I called it and it was her and she confirmed that they have been in a relationship for 1 1/2 years now. When I confronted him about it of course he said he was sorry again but he took on this very nasty attitude towards me. He began yelling and screaming about how he refused to go into any details and he blamed me for not being supportive of him. He said he could admit when he was wrong but he has yet to do so. As for the finances, I have been down that road with him too many times to give into his stories. I can say that in speaking with the young woman he's seeing he has talked her into getting a credit card in her name in which he has purchased this very expensive TV that he has promised her he would pay back. From my experiences with him, he doesn't pay back any of his debts so I refuse to give him any monies. He has previously asked that I put him on as a user on my credit cards and of course I have refused because he doesn't pay back what he owes and I have experienced this with him time after time. I have not had any physical encounters with him although he can be very enraged and combative when he doesn't want to answer questions. I only learned of his behavior through talking with the other woman who has brought so much comfort to me. It was she who suggested that he may be psychopathic and after doing some research, I am convinced that he is. He continues to lie right up to 1 hour ago when we spoke. He said he wanted to work out things with me however he had just told the other woman the same thing. I find that he often times pretends to cry and become emotional but those scenes no longer penetrate me at all. I just need help on getting out of this turmoil of a relationship.
Posted by: searchin4help

Re: My story - 08/13/09 10:16 PM


I feel as though you have personally attacked me. I came to the site for support not to be ridiculed or smashed further by yours words. I am new to this and I am looking for help on a way out. Before you write such harsh words perhaps you should take a closer look at what you say. I'm sure if you've experienced this yourself you can relate to the pain. Thanks for making me feel even worse.
Posted by: searchin4help

Re: My story - 08/13/09 10:19 PM


Thanks for your concern. I am pretty sure that she is not taking information back to him. She is seeking a healing process from this as well.

Posted by: Anonymous

Re: My story - 08/14/09 04:27 AM


I said in my writing already I am NOT attacking you.

The rest of it is plane information. If you can't take it in , then don't but don't tell me I am in anyway trying to be harsh!
And it is not possible for me to hurt you.......
If you come here for a clear solution, I am sorry, no one can give that to you and you will be disappointed over and over again...
Isn't it just tooo easy to blame others for the way we feel ourselfs, when not hearing
( reading) what we want to hear ( read)?
I am nobodies victim.. not even yours!
And take this from me. If, what I have said to you was harsh in anyway, Dianne would have deleted it long time or asked me to delete it.....
She wil do lots to keep this forum like it is.....
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: My story - 08/14/09 08:55 AM

Hello Searchin4help

Your story sounds sadly familiar and I hope you can find some information and support here to help you get through a tough time.
Have you looked at the checklist in the resource section of the forum to help you decide if your ex has the characteristics of a psychopath? We can’t make any sort of diagnosis but you will be able to come to your own conclusions and then be able to look for more information.

I would be very wary of giving information to the other woman not because you can’t trust her but she may tell him things in, all innocence, you have said and that gives him a weapon to beat you with. Information is power and if he knows you are suffering in any way he has something over you. It will feed his ego if you try to tell him how much damage he has done or how he has hurt you or anyone else so no contact is the only way. If he knows absolutely nothing you have the upper hand.

You have been very wise about looking after your finances so you were obviously aware for a while what this guy was like and you probably want to stop him doing the same thing to others but as often happens the person you are trying to warn turns against you because they don’t want to believe they can be fooled so easily. It’s a sad fact that others have to find out for themselves and are likely to think you are just being vindictive…either that or they get defensive because they are embarrassed for being easily duped.

You are the priority now and you need to find ways to move on and the best start is to take care of yourself and keep as far away as possible both mentally and physically.
If you have read up on psychopathy you will know there’s no ‘cure’ so there only way forward and that is no contact but as you have a child together that will be very difficult.
Does your son have a relationship with his father? You mentioned being concerned about your son developing the same behaviour and wondered if there is something in particular that makes you question whether psychopathic behaviour can be passed on. If your son has grown up in a household where there has been a lot of problems there are many reasons a child would display certain behaviours. That situation should improve once the ex is off the scene.

I hope we can offer you support and there is promising news…many of our members have moved on, got out of relationships like yours, some have gone back to education and some to good jobs, their finances have improved and it’s very much down to each person as an individual how they do this. Many go back into the relationship believing the promises to change only to have to go through the leaving process again …and often more than once.
It’s in your hands to move on and you will find you will get all the encouragement you need when you are feeling less able to cope. We can also offer some practical suggestions as well but that sometimes depends on where you live as different countries or even states have different regulations and laws.

Best of luck and good advice is to write everything down, keep records and documents. Sometimes just putting the words on paper gets them out of your head, other times you may just want to vent your anger and it’s good to get it out.

Posted by: happy.chap

Re: My story - 09/08/09 07:11 AM

Hi Searchin4help.

Sorry hear of your experiences & my heart goes out to you. Im sure you will get much inspiration from the members on here which will hopefully give you the strength you need to make some constructive decisions & positive steps in the right direction.

Its not really my place to advise you but if i were in your situation i would make a big effort to look outside the box & see the bigger picture. I would try & set my self a goal & in your case i feel a good goal would be to get your inoccent 5 year old son as far away from his psychopthic father as possible. Its fact that patterns have a tendency to repeat themselves which doesnt bare thinking about & unfortunately your current circumstances will be subjecting your son to his fathers destructive behaviour.

Because your psychopathic partner is still in your life im guessing you feel very weak & vulnerable & more sensitive than you would normally be. You must remember that the majority of members on this forum have or are currently suffering in the hands of a psychopath but we're all members for the same reasons. I agree with you that Segaya did come across as a tad harsh & direct with her advice & some would say insensitive but im sure she didnt intend to make you feel attacked.

I dont doubt the members on here including myself will support you to best of our ability. To talk & learn about other peoples experiences is an excellent constructive step in the right direction, but you must never lose sight of the fact that the only person that can help you is yourself. By joining this forum you've made a massive leap in the right direction, you've proved to yourself that you can be strong which gives you power. Like myself alot of people are angry & want to punish their partner (in my case ex) & teach them a lesson for the pain & suffering they've caused but due to the fact psychopaths are incapable of normal emotions such as feeling guilt, remorse or empathy is there a suitable punishment other than to take control back of your own life, which definately means getting him out of it. You need to be absolutely sure you want this man out of your life, if you do you will eventually find the strength, if you dont or your not sure you need to accept who & what he is because if he is a psychopath you will NEVER change him! I hope my experience & how i freed myself from my psychopathic partner helps to inspire you into making the right choices.

I wish you all the luck in the world & hope you manage to realise & achieve what it is you want.

Take care. Happy.chap
Posted by: delvene

Re: My story - 03/07/10 04:05 AM

Hi everyone, I am a new member -

I don't know if my story is the same as everyone elses, all I know is that I met somebody who completely destroyed any semblance of self I had. For two years after it ended I cried EVERY SINGLE DAY from morning to night and wished myself dead for relief...

Lucky for me, that I met my now husband - a wonderful, humble man who picked me up out of the debris...and helped me like myself again. No idea where I would be otherwise.

It starts before the actual story starts. I was involved with my 1st husband for 12 years - although he was not a psychopath, we had a volatile, abusive the point that there would be weeks when we were in the house and not even utter one single word to one another...It came to a head after the birth of our third child, who has down syndrome...(on some level he needed to blame me for it because he was unable to deal with it) - So, I packed up my three children and moved back to the area where I grew up to be close to my family.

I was 33, flat broke, had never worked and could see myself with not many options.

So, I took a job selling novelty bags on Saturday's and Sunday's, for very meager money, and enrolled in college as a mature aged student during the week.

This is where the real story begins:

I decided I was going to do a course in Network Management/Engineering as the big IT boom was still in the early stages...and I was thinking about the best ways to be able to support myself.

J* was a lecturer in one of my classes. Straight away he had more presense than anyone I had ever seen. The students flocked to him on their lunch breaks. I wouldn't say he was handsome, in any classic sense of the word, but he was the most attractive, confident man I had ever known - (To this day I am still attracted to him).

At this point it gets fuzzy - He screwed with my mind so much that for a long time I did not know what was real and what wasn't - I have been to counselling over this...but there is still a confusion that I cannot shake.

I can say at first, when first meeting him, I thought he was full of himself - and I never spoke to him outside of class...

Something changed and I started to feel protective towards him, as if I was entirely responsible for his mood.

I never sought him out. NEVER. I knew he was married, due to his wedding ring...But he started to seek me out. Before and after college and during breaks. He was so charming, so caring, so witty, and so funny....that going to college became about *J. And nothing else.

Then he stopped wearing his wedding ring.

When we were in his class, he would sit next to me with his leg touching mine...and master flirt with me.

Him: *D wants everything.
Me: What do you mean I want everything.
Him: (A wink) Sorry Freudian slip.

Midway through my course (18 months through) I got offered a job - a well paying job - from a firm that I had been doing some temp work for. So I deffered the rest of my study and left college.

Thats when he started calling me at home.

He told me he was going to call over on his way home from work one day, for a cup of coffee, to talk to me about how the job was going, catch up and ect. At this time, please understand, I was already smitten, so I agreed.

He came.

He sat me down.

"I have left my wife. YOU drive me crazy. What are we going to do about this."

That is when our relationship started.

All the way through I had the feeling that he had never left his wife. Little things. He would stay over but have to leave at 5am in the morning...Among other things that made me confront him about it. The reply I got was this:

"Why would I lie to you? I am in love with you. I don't use those words lightly because I have been hurt by them."

He told me he wanted to marry me. Had big plans for the future....But still it was always peppered with uncertainty on my part...

To the point where I made him PROMISE that what he was saying was true. He did so without blinking an eyelid.

When it all came out in the open...he had been away on a holiday with his football buddies.

We had been speaking three times daily on the phone, and when he came back he was coming to spend the week at my house. He had asked me that while he was away, I told my ex-husband about him (who was still trying to get back with me) - and also told my kids that he was more than JUST a friend...

I did all of this. (Now trusting him implicitely)

On the day he was due to arrive at my house, he never turned up. This was a man who rang me 4, 5, 6 times a day and I never heard from him for a week.

Then he called, said we needed to talk, and arranged to pick me up for dinner.

Over dinner:

"I can't leave my family."

Me: "You told me you'd already left."

He ignored that comment. Looked at me in a way that made me feel stupid for believing what he'd told me. (Like I should have SOMEHOW known that it was a lie).

Then I started crying - I was devestated.

Then, of all things, he offered me his alternative - AN AFFAIR. I promptly refused.

Over the next few months, in the middle of dealing with my own grief, I started to feel sorry for him. Started to feel bad about myself for not being smart enough, and understanding the "ways" of "PEOPLE" for not figuring it out sooner. Absolved him by concluding that he probably thought I knew, and if I had of been smarter, I would have.

I wrote him an email - basically saying, "Don't feel bad, you are still a good teacher, it was a two way street...ect, ect"

He promptly rang me.

"Please can we still be friends. Please can we talk on the phone occasionally. I am having second thoughts. I am so sorry. I really really miss you. I think about you every day."

So I said yes.

Understand, I never EVER called him once.

But a few weeks later, on New Years Eve I sent a group message wishing everyone a happy new year.

The next day I got a message with the txt. "I no longer want to be your friend. Do not contact me again."

I wrote back. "Okay fine. Whatever."

Then the phone rang and it was his wife. She was the one who had messaged me.

He had twisted the whole story around, like he had never done anything...had been an innocent party and I was a home wrecker trying to take him away from his family. He had not told her I was his student. That we had been involved at all as anything other than friends. And he'd never left her.

When I told her my point of view - She immediately gave him an excuse - "Oh he was probably just having a mid life crisis. He is feeling old." (He was 50 at the time.)

Everyone else gave him an excuse too. Friends I had made at college, listened and ohhed and ummed, but suddenly I was the bad guy. The home wrecker.

Because he is so charismatic everybody adores him. He is like a people magnet.

I had a complete nervous breakdown after his wife called - even started to believe that maybe it was all in my head, that I had made it all up, that I was insane. This is how much he had me doubting myself. (lucky, lucky, lucky for me that I had saved his emails and his txts- because that has been a Godsend. I know that I am not insane. I have proof.)

Worse though, I still loved him. I tried to twist things around to make him innocent...It was easier to believe that I was the bad guy.

For two years after that I COULD NOT FUNCTION. I left my job. I nearly got my children taken off me by my ex husband, because all I could do was lay in bed all day crying...and I thought, for the first time in my life, about suicide on a number of occasions.

There is so much more to this story that I do not have the capacity to even write down...and the length would make it unreadable. All I can say is that I now know that there are people who can completely, completely destroy others through manipulation.

Before then, I never, ever knew such evil existed.
Posted by: Elvie

Elvie's story - 03/30/11 08:10 AM

I don't wanna call this guy psychopath at this point because I don't want a label to prejudge anything, you know? It's possible he isn't a psychopath, and one reason I'm telling this story is to find out what others think about that. So I'll call him X, if that's ok.

I'm also changing some of the actual circumstances etc to make it harder to recognise his identity in the small chance that anyone he knows finds this place.

I first met X when we were both in our twenties. He a little older than me. We both worked in a local store part time. I was separated from my first husband, with a small child to raise, and was living with my widowed mother, having recently moved back from living abroad. He was Oxbridge educated, with a good degree, but had recently dropped out of studying for his phD and was also living back with his parents, working at a job for which he was ridiculously over-qualified and nursing some slightly half-baked plans to be an actor.

Unlike a lot of you here I didn't fall in love with this guy, I just kinda liked him. He was not too tall, good looking in a clean cut slightly preppy kind of way, and with a very English, obviously highly intelligent, nerdy, but with a great sense of humor. He gave off a 'what you see is what you get' kind of vibe: gentle, humorous, quite sweet, naïve and uncomplicated. He'd had a few brief relationships with women, all casual and – he said – more or less disastrous. And one live-in Chinese girlfriend who'd gone back to Hong Kong a year or so before we met.

As I said, there were no fireworks, but we started seeing each other. I'd just got out of a fairly nasty marriage to a controlling man. X seemed safe by comparison, and 'safe' was just what I wanted right then. He seemed to really like my little boy, struck up a friendship with him, played games with him. He was sweet and soft-spoken and thoughtful. Always willing to do what I wanted. Always happy to go along with my plans or ideas. I felt softly nurtured. It was healing.

But even then there was something a little odd. I mean he was a very intelligent man, yet he seemed to have absolutely no awareness of and no interest in his own deeper motivations. He'd give reasons for things he'd done in the past that were obviously the kind of things you offer as 'public' excuses, while knowing inside your own heart they are not really true or only partly true, you know? Yet when I'd say stuff like “sure but that wasn't the only reason was it?” (as you do sometimes) he'd just look at me blankly. It was like one of those robots in Star Trek . You could almost see his brain flickering and the words 'does not compute' flashing up in front of his eyes.

To give one early and quite benign example: he told me the story of his relationship with the Chinese gf, and said it had ended because she'd gone back to Hong Kong. He said she'd wanted him to go with her, but he didn't have the money for the fare. I said, “sure, but you prob didn't wanna go all that much, yeah, because if you had you'd have just found the money somehow.”

He gave me the blank look. “No, I just couldn't afford it.”

“So, you wanted to be with her but it had to end cuz you couldn't scrape an air fair together?”

“Uh, yeah”.

“And you never thought to suggest she could come back to the UK?”

“Uh, no”.

“Did she mind you not going over there?”

“Uh yeah she wrote and said she wanted me to be there so we could get married”

“You were supposed to be getting married?”

“Uh, well, she wanted to I suppose”

“And what about you?”

“Uhhh...I gueeessssess...but I couldn't afford the fare”

Well, it sounds like crap doesn't it? Vague, weasel-worded crap. I mean it just doesn't add up. But when I said so there was just the blank look and silence, so in the end I just let it go. Figured he was poor with expressing his feelings, got easily con fused or something.

Few years down the line he told me how he'd been surprised when she suddenly said she wanted him to go out there and get married and he'd written to say “thanks for planning out my life”, and that had ended things.

Few months later still I found out she was still writing to his mother (who liked her a lot more than she liked me) and sent him a note after our first child was born saying “I love you and little Y” (our son's name).

He has always professed not to have a clue why any of that was happening.

But that's jumping ahead anyway.

A few months after X and I became an item my mother was diagnosed with terminal cancer. My father was already dead, so as an only child I ended up taking care of her and my small son pretty much on my own. To make it worse the doctors didn't tell her the terminal part – they told me. And since she obviously didn't want to know I ended up keeping the secret to myself. It was a pretty hellish time. Looking back, it's maybe significant I didn't confide in X, even though I was seeing him. To be honest he became a fairly peripheral figure while I was coping with everything. He'd help if I asked, but never really enquired or expressed much concern.

When my mother was taken into hospital after a fit, and I was told she probably wouldn't becoming home again, I asked X to come stay at the house for a while. To be clear, I wasn't asking him to move in, I just needed someone to be there to take care of my little boy while I as doing hospital visits, and to be honest I welcomed just having another human presence in the house. He was an obvious choice because my little boy was used to him and enjoyed his company. He willingly said yes and came to stay, sleeping in the spare room, saying he was happy to just be a friend while I needed one. I was probably a lot more messed up than I realised at the time, and acting quite oddly. I started up a hopeless relationship with an old (married) bf, without even knowing why, which only added to the angst, so I was grateful for having X there to be kind and non-judgemental and listen to my various woes.

But some time in the months following something very weird happened that I've only recently begun to think about. During this time my mother died, and her alcoholic sister came to stay, had a fall, broke her pelvis and ended up in the very same hospital ward that my mother had died in, then camr back to my house to stay for a looong convalescence. She had also had cancer and was suffering from cirrhosis of the liver, so coping with her sickness and her bouts of drinking took up a lot of my time. Maybe that helps explain how I didn't notice what happened. But I'm not sure it does...

But anyhow, some time between the October when he came to stay, and the following summer X seamlessly morphed from being a 'friend' who had moved in temporarily to help me out, into a live-in partner, who was violently jealous of the way I had been 'selfishly' carrying on with the married bf I'd been seeing. The odd thing is I don't remember when the change happened. It was just suddenly the way things were. As if X managed to change all the rules while I wasn't looking, and all that previous agreement was just forgotten – by me as well as him – and another reality was imposed!

It sounds so crazy, and I don't really know how to explain it. I guess I was very very isolated at that time; both parents dead, extended family not wanting to get involved in all the trauma of death and illness. And with a small boy to raise. I was probably quite traumatised too I guess with all the sickness and fear. I remember feeling floaty and detached a lot of the time, as if I was looking at life through perspex. As if nothing was quite real.But I'm not sure than can really explain it.

Anyhow, somehow, X had stopped being the friend who was helping me out and had become my live-in partner who was indignant and jealous about me 'betraying' him with this 'other man'. Even after I stopped seeing him, X would rage about him, get drunk, fly into incredible, incendiary rages you'd never have guessed him capable of on first meeting. It was like being bludgeoned into submission. “Accept you've been cruel and evil to me or I'll just keep screaming at you” sort of deal.

I knew somewhere in my mind that this was insane, but just couldn't find the focus and energy to express it. I was just kind of grateful when he was being nice, and tried to avoid saying anything that would make it all start up again – though even so, whenever it did start up X would say I'd provoked it be being unreasonable in some way.

I also started to be dimly aware of something odd about him and his mother. She'd never much liked me, but there's nothing that unusual about that in a 'mother-in-law'. .One thing that felt odd was the strength of the hostility. The first time he took me to her home it was probably one of the most coldly hostile atmospheres I have ever encountered. She was polite, made us tea and did impeccable small talk, but it felt like the air was solidifying around me as I sat there; as if she was emanating some kind of weird force field that was almost suffocating me. Twenty-something years on I can still remember it. Never felt anything so coldly implacable from that day to this.

And it never got much better with her. Given that I was a twenty-something 'orphan' at the time her son moved in with me, and given she had no daughters of her own, you could imagine she might have taken me in as the daughter she never had, or at least tried to be a mother to me to some extent. I used to wish she would do that. But no. Oh she was mostly quite amiable, but in that chilly, formal way, with disapproval always peeking through. And she'd sometimes make covert derogatory remarks, or sometimes quite direct and devastatingly rude comments.

A friend who witnessed her talk to me one evening leaned in to whisper “Oh my she hates you”.

And yes, I think she did. Though I never knew why.

But the truly odd thing was that X seemed to be unconcerned about it, and seemed to make no effort to bring us together. In fact quite the opposite. So often he'd seem to accidentally end up putting me in some bad light or another when his mother was visiting. Make it seem - without actually saying anything directly critical - I was being lazy, selfish, or incompetent.

It was weird really. He had no interest in contacting her, and would neglect to call or visit for so long I'd feel I had to say “you should call your mum, she'll be wondering what's up with you”. Yet when she was around he'd be on his best behaviour; kind and considerate to her, and somehow giving the impression he was desperately hen-pecked by me. He never flew into a rage while she was there. Never got drunk or violent. And when I asked him to do anything he'd jump up and do it as if he lived only to please me.

She obviously thought I was a lazy slut and just didn't deserve him. And I suspect she thought he went so long without contacting her because I made him do it. He probably never actually told her that – because he doesn't often do that. But I'm sure he somehow managed to let her assume it, you know? That's the way he always works – using little hints and half-truths and careful omissions to sort of lay a trail for people to follow. That way he can lead someone to believe something while being able to claim later that he never intended them to get that impression and it was all a terrible mistake.

(I think that's more than enough for now; it's unfair to ask anyone to read any more than this at one go, and it's kind of exhausting trying to frame it all in words! I might try and tell more later. But if anyone doe read through it, I'd like to know how it seems to them; is this man a psychopath? or just highly mesed up?)

be well
Posted by: Violet

Re: Elvie's story - 03/30/11 01:58 PM


I have read through your posts a few times and I am trying to form a picture....Several thoughts come to mind. The first thing that I wanted to tell you is that you really have no reason to concern yourself with rambling or the length of your post. I will respond here with a long winded and wordy post to ease your mind smile Posting here serves more than one purpose. You may have initially posted here looking for answers, confirmation, validation, and empathy. But beyond that, there is great healing to be found when we write about our experiences. Something about organizing our thoughts in written form also helps us organize our thoughts and feelings within our mind and heart. We were never offered a course in writing to help us describe our most painful experiences. So cut yourself some slack, even if your post feels awkwardly worded to you. I read through a few of your posts, and I think that you express yourself fairly clearly. Please, don't concern yourself with rambling or wordiness, that really is irrelevant.

You are asking us if we think that this man is a psychopath? I am inclined to think so based on the information you have given us so far. I am sure that you have heard of the Hare psychopathy checklist? Have you taken a look at it to see if you recognize if he has the majority of the traits? In my personal experience, it was the Hare checklist which confirmed for me that my daughter's father is indeed a psychopath. It was not a matter of, "well, he has a few of these traits...." In my case, he has EVERY single trait that is listed. I couldn't deny it if I had wanted to. But I did not want to deny it.

Like other members here, there was a feeling of adrenaline upon the confirmation of his psychopathy. An immediate feeling of partial closure in the sense that it was not, "all in my head," followed by a strong sense of panic, "what- this is the same psychological spectrum of serial killers!?!" Prior to my learning about psychopathy, I had always known that there was something not right with him. I always knew that he had an anger management problem. I knew that he had been in many altercations with the law. I knew about his drinking problem as well as his violent tendencies. So before anyone ever mentioned the possibility that he was a psychopath, I knew he was a liar, a cheater, a drunk, and a thug. Yet looking back at all of it collectively, and placing it on a list of psychopathy traits, was an unforgetable and undeniable moment.

Sitting at my computer I felt relieved, that there wasn't a problem with ME bacause I couldn't, "just get over everything." It put all of my pain in a new place. I felt that I was no longer the person who made bad bad decisions to be involved with this man. Upon discovering he was a psychopath, I was able to view myself as a VICTIM. This is such an important realization towards healing. I can understand your urgency for an official answer. Unfortunately, I am not in a position to give you an official diagnosis. There are several things that you have told us which certainly give reason for you to question if he is a psychopath...

He attempted to commit murder. Very scary. His openness to talk about and admit his intentions are very alarming and suggestive that he has little if no conscious. You mentioned that he had a psychological evaluation. You were informed that it was likely he has a personality disorder, and counseling was suggested. That speaks volumes. Most mental health professionals do not loosely throw around the term "personality disorder."

You mentioned that your relationship developed with him shortly after you had just gotten out of a nasty marriage to a controlling man. It is not uncommon for a psychopath to seek out victims while they are vulnerable. He moved in on the scene while you were still on the rebound.

You said that he dropped out of a PhD program. Psychopaths have a hard time sticking to one thing. They can have a hard time taking projects to completion. You also said that he had half baked plans to be an actor. My ex-psychopath had half baked plans to be a performer as well, he was going to be a great singer. He talked big stuff about how is singing career would take off. At the time, I thought he had great potential too, he certainly had the confidence.

My ex-psychopath portrayed that he had been through a disastrous relationship as well. She was horribly mean to him. It took him very little time to have me feeling quite sorry for him. Years later, I found out she was the one being tormented by him.

I felt the same way at first that you described. Almost as if he managed to create exactly what it would take for me to jump right in. He seemed to really like my friends, my family. He was sweet and soft-spoken. Always willing to do what I wanted. Always happy to go along with my plans or ideas. My ex-Psychopath also offered "public" type excuses for things he had done in the past. Q: "Why don't you have your driver's license?" A: "I got into some trouble stealing cars when I was younger." Answers that only admitted slight responsibility, with enough remorse to stop me from further questioning.

The blank stare. Yes, we understand the blank stare. The blank stare of a man misunderstood. The blank stare of someone who is hurting and suffering. The blank stare with a glimmer of hope that you are the one to complete him, make him right. The blank stare mistakenly interpreted as intensity, passion, and longing in the soul. The blank stare that in reality is the result of the brain's lack of ability to send and receive signals of emotional processing and understanding.

The blank look that represents hate, love, dedication, and betrayal all at once. He would look at me with that blank stare and tell me that he was going to marry me. He looked at me with that blank stare and told me that he was in love with me (within the first week, how could I have possibly thought that was sincere!) The same blank stare when he played with that large kitchen knife, telling me he was going to slice up my face. The same blank stare when he would say to me, "we are in this together." The same blank stare when he said, "Yeah, so what if I F*&%$# her, I make love to you."

Psychopaths like to leave relationships open-ended. They frequently use avoidance, or very little communication to leave us stringing along, years later. I am not surprised to hear your X was still encouraging communication between his ex gf and his mother. Have you considered that they may have had a child together?

My ex-Psychopath always played stupid as well. Having, "no clue" what I was getting so upset about. I could hold the evidence in front of his face, and he would call me a liar and somehow turn his dishonesty in to my paranoia and hurtful accusations. They talk in circles. That is how they manage to flip things around without us even realizing it. They are big on loyalty issues. My ex always got himself worked up about the various ways in which I had "betrayed" him. How I chose the dog over him, chose my family over him. Whenever he did something wrong, it turned out that way because of something I had done to "betray" him in the first place.

Regarding the mother-in-law hating you...that makes sense. None of my ex-Psychopaths friends ever liked me. That was because he always badmouthed me to them. No doubt, he was bad mouthing you to his mother. Unlikely that you were being defensive or imagining her hostility. Psychopaths never really have strong ties to their families. Long lengths of time without communication are not uncommon. My ex-Psychopath had absolutely no contact with any of his extended family. The only family he had when I met him were his children. (he never married their mother). Just as you described, he would neglect to call or contact his children for so long, that I would have to suggest it. When he did see them, it was based upon plans I had suggested.

Little hints and half-truths, that sounds familiar too. It is advantagous for them to operate like this. As you said, they leave a little trail for people to follow. And the other half of the truth? Well, they can always adjust that other half on the spot to make it work for each situation. Intricate lies and manipulation.

So, to answer your question...Is he "highly messed up?"....uuhhhh, for sure! He tried to murder his own mother!
Is he a psychopath?...there is more evidence pointing toward it than away from it. How is his relationship with your children? You mentioned he only recently landed a secure job? You mentioned that you have been separated from him for years, does he just wander back around when he feels like it? Has he been in any other legal trouble, aside from the attempted murder?
Posted by: Dianne E.

Re: Elvie's story - 03/30/11 02:48 PM

I have a question rattling in my mind. Is his mother still alive or died of "natural causes", if dead did he gain financially. If she is alive what is their relationship with her and does he have any siblings that knew of his murder plans?

Speaking of long winded, I developed a chronic habit, I am in the habit of being a chronic saver of text as I go along so I will usually write in Word to appease my fear of losing the copy. When I write an email I am in the habit of clicking “save in drafts”. It took losing a couple long winded posts or emails and now the habit is so much a part of how I operate at the computer I would have to admit it is indeed chronic;)

On the flip side I don't have to write my long winded pieces more than once, lol.

Posted by: Boglin

Re: Elvie's story - 06/17/11 03:03 AM


I am new here, and think I posted my story in the wrong place yesterday.

Having read so man terrible stories, I count myself very lucky to only habe this one to report.

I don't know whether I have dealt with a psychopath, or someone who is normal but just seems to have a very, very nasty side, but I have been deeply, deeply hurt in the past and my most recent encounter with her has left me convinced that she was deliberately trying to destroy my life.

To cut a very long story very short:

In 2004, to my surprise, I fell insanely in love with another woman. She fell in love with me, too, but at the final second, panicked and pretended she hadn't, and was very very spiteful and verbally abusive to me. I was left doubting my perceptions and, indeed, my sanity. I was emotionally devastated that someone I had loved and trusted so mcuh had done this to me. She talked about me to other people who knew me, telling them I was mad, and the trouble was, I was so hurt and angry and confused, that I probably came across as someone who had lost it. In essence, I had a nervous/emotional breakdown.

I tried and tried to get her to talk to me and explain her cruel behaviour, but there was total shut down on her part. In my pain and confusion, I emailed her every day for six months, on a fruitless quest for answers. I am and will always remain convinced that she got every one of my emails, but in the end, she shut down her email address and got a new one.

I had limited contact with her for the next seven years - I let her know (via a friend) when i had a baby and she congratulated me.

She came back into my life this year. She is a novelist (so am I) and has just had her first book published to great acclaim. She asked me - by phone - to go to Seattle and meet her for four nights on a book tour which her US publisher was sending her on (we are both English). I said no, it wsa too mental. (I live in England ans she lives in France.) She said Please. I said ok. Booked tickets.

We then had a crisis, when her publisher altered the dates of her tour, and on the day I was meeting her in Seattle, she was now going to be in San Francisco. However, she didn't phone or email me to tell me this. She just announced it on her website.

I noticed that she never, ever referred to our plans in any emails we shared. Only ever by phone. Whenever I addressed them in an email, she avoided any answer. I now realise this was to protect herself.

I sent her loads of emails over the course of a weend, asking her what I was meant to do with mt ticket to Seattle, cos the airline wouldn't give me a refund. I was very cross and upset. She didn't reply to any of my emails. In fact, I didn't hear from her for three weeks. I tried to sell my tockets, or get a refund, but I couldn't. Eventually, I phoned her and she asked me to meet her in San Francisco instead, but I felt instinctively that she had left the 'relationship' by now.

A week before we were due to meet, she flew out to America. I couldn't contact her, so I emailed her through Facebook to try and finalise the arrnagements, asking her to meet me at the airport, etc. She didn't reply to my mails, but I just said I had to go (because I couldn't get rid of the tickets, and it was an arrangement we had), we didn't need to pursue a relationship, we could just be friends and get the horrible past between us to a good place.

She wasn't at the airport to meet me. I was very upset. I went to the bookshop where she was doing her reading and she pretended to be surprsied to see me. She shouted at me, said she didn't know why I was there, and told me to go away and get on with my life. She was very nasty. 'I have nothing to say to you,' she said.

As I walked away, I looked through the window and she was laughing.

In my upset, I then emailed her via FB and said, 'this trip has cost me 2 grand. I suggest you give me 2 grand or I'll tell your husband.' Of course, I would not really have done this, but I was distraught.

As soon as she got home, she contacted the police and said I had been stalking her for seven years. The police came to my house, took me to the station and made me make a statement, which I did - being totally honest. They then read me her statement and, though some of it was true (I had emailed her a lot after she told me she didn't love me and I was heartbroken, cos she was telling so many lies, I was really confused) it was also full of lies - that I was an alcoholic, that'd I'd joined a group of lesbians and asked her to join it with me (!!), that I'd sent her lesbian pornography, that I used to demand information about her intimate life with her husband, that she believed I was very troubled and could be violent, that I had made six silent phone calls to her husband while she was away. She even went as far as to say she believed I had Scizophrenia.

Anyway, there was no arguing. The police were on her side and they cautioned me for stalking.

Sometimes when I tell this story, it sounds so crazy, I think I must be making it up, or that I am mad and I really did misunderstand her. BUt I know I didn't. I am an intelligent, professional woman who doesn't go imagining love affairs or phone calls where someone invites me to meet her in America and commit to a romantic relationship with them.

I felt sure this woman loved me at some point, but now I question eveything. I am just at a loss to understand her abusive behaviour now. I wonder whetehr she has always had this very cruel streak and that, over the years, it has grown worse.

She has a normal, everyday life - married for 23 years, two lovely children, lots of friends. She is a good mother and her children clearly love her.

So I'm not sure that I am really dealing with a psychopath or just a very, very cruel, emotionless person. I am certain that her recent dealings with me were an attempt to sabotage me, but she has no motivation to do that at all.
Posted by: Dianne E.

Re: My Story - Part Two - 10/03/11 09:40 AM

Hi NoesMama3, welcome to our community, sorry for not welcoming you sooner. I would like to reply to your questions when I return. Would you like a "thread" started so we can also have others with SIL's help out? Just let me know and I start one and move your post.

Posted by: NoesMama3

Re: My Story - Part Two - 10/03/11 02:03 PM

Yes, Di, that would be great. Many thanks.

Also, there's been a new development, though minor: she's been sending my husband messages online making various demands (which she could easily take care of herself). I believe that she's trying to draw him back into her web. Any suggestions?
Posted by: Dianne E.

Re: My Story - Part Two - 10/03/11 02:31 PM

Hi, I moved your thread here:
Psychopath Sister in Law
Posted by: Miss Treated

Re: My Story - Part Two (part one for me) - 11/07/11 08:13 PM

I have been here for one day. I too have read all your stories. We have all been through the same. I need to tell my story now. It's a long story (i'm sorry, and I understand if you guys cant read it all!!), but venting helps so much. To all of you out there, vent!

My psychopath had been my first love as a teenager. We parted… had not talked for over 30 years. Several months ago we met again. Our lives became lovingly entangled. It was long distance, but so nice... thanks to skype. We spent each night together, working together for hours and hours, talking and falling asleep… side by side on Skype, for months. He called me his wife. I called him my husband.

All the work I was doing was for him. He needed the money so bad… he was bankrupt. I was ok with that, until the work become too much. I needed to lessen my work load. But then something felt wrong. He started communicating less with me. No more constant txt messages. Fewer nights on Skype. Sometimes almost a whole day went by without hearing his voice. I was devastated. He would tell me of friends… women… that he was helping. It made me jealous… he did this on purpose…it made me work more to keep him. I felt more jealous every time he mentioned another female friend of his. Then I felt he was not telling me the truth about these friends. I confronted him, but he had such convincing stories (lies) to tell me, excuses, that I felt bad for the lack of trust. He demeaned me for that. I apologized (!!! How stupid!!!) But then it became good again. I was working even more for him, hours and hours, to make him feel happy, to not push him away. But I still did not trust him, yet I loved him. I could not live without him. I told my friends about the pain I felt. Then my friends started questioning his lack of sharing the earnings with me. I would talk to my sister and she so thoroughly warned me… she asked me what I was getting out of this relationship. She saw me in constant worry and pain. She said he is thinking of himself only, he is evil… back away. I tired, but then I was in such deep pain. I was addicted to him… pain of withdrawal, glee with the return. This went on for so long. the addiction, back and forth, happiness and despair. I was blinded by love.

Then he went on a trip to meet with a relative to further our work projects. He had told me a month in advance. We spoke when he was there…. We spoke on skype when he returned. But then he told me he left his phone there. At that very moment I received a txt from his phone… it was a picture of him with another woman. The heading of the txt said “My new girl.” We were on skype so I asked him to explain this. He said he left his phone in the car of a crazy woman. But this “crazy” woman called me. She was the one he went to be with. He had sex with her. He was her new mate. She was going thru his phone and found my txt’s and 8 other women’s txt’s, talking of their love for him. He was courting 8 women at the same time!!!!! He told us all he loved us sooo much. He asked almost all of us to marry him. He gave us the promise of a happily-ever-after life. And now he was exposed. He used each one of use for something… money, sex, work, connections. When anyone of us would hold up and not perform, he would so easily move to the next. Round and round. The women started calling me. We all spoke… including his wife!!!(yes, found out that he was married!!!) and we all learned the truth. He betrayed us all. He is a narcissist, a psychopath.

He denies it all. He does not feel bad. He says those other women are crazy. I know he tells them I am crazy. He said he will not beat himself up over this. Not at all. Why should he?? He then said his life is good.. he spoke of work… his work. He says he is doing great.

He is not concerned about me, not the 8 of us. None of us matter. We all spoke for a few days, trying to console each other. Not possible.

One of the worst parts of all this... I often think about one time he and I did get together. I expected such a loving embrace. But he was cold, somewhat affectionate, but was not acting as "my hisband". He slept with his back to me. We met eachother one more time, and it was the same. I refused to acknowledge it all then. I was in my glory for just being next to him. Yes, I feel so stupid for being so blind.

So here I am. He deceived me (us). He used me (us). He cheated on me, with 8 other women. And he wont admit it!! He wont explain it. He wont apologize. He says this unfounded ridiculousness is so easily behind him, time to move on. He says he is a good man, not a stealer, not a cheater. He doesn’t care that he is killing me. He is a true psychopath. My heart is broken, I am devastated. For me, he died. I am grieving so deeply. It has been a week and a half. I am drowning. But I am here.

If you are reading these words, thanks for listening.
Posted by: 1Healing

Re: My Story - Part Two (part one for me) - 11/07/11 08:28 PM

Sounds a lot like my ex h also. He would go from one person to the next, clinging, he went from marriage & separation of a few months to me, then for the next yrs that we were together he wouldleave at drop of hat & disappear for month then come begging back into my life.. it was pure insanity & has left me confused at how a human could do this & not care..he's been gone a few yrs now, no word.. his, "other half," he called me.
Right. & like you say how many does he have? He will do this the rest of his life he will never be, "alone," but always using someone. It angers me because of the devastation he caused in my life.
I can relate to the fact they destroy lives. I would say my life overall resembles that now, I am having to put back together what is shattered.. He calls himself a strong Christian man with gifts of prophecy too...
HUGS! I pray you can find healing, here & other places. it helps me so much to speak of this at places like this, to be honest & let go of it all.. it was so traumatic & still a few yrs post his leaving I am STILL dealing with it all.. it will take Yrs to heal. Take care!

Originally Posted By: Miss Treated
I have been here for one day. I too have read all your stories. We have all been through the same. I need to tell my story now. It's a long story (i'm sorry, and I understand if you guys cant read it all!!), but venting helps so much. To all of you out there, vent!

My psychopath had been my first love as a teenager. We parted… had not talked for over 30 years. Several months ago we met again. Our lives became lovingly entangled. It was long distance, but so nice... thanks to skype. We spent each night together, working together for hours and hours, talking and falling asleep… side by side on Skype, for months. He called me his wife. I called him my husband.

All the work I was doing was for him. He needed the money so bad… he was bankrupt. I was ok with that, until the work become too much. I needed to lessen my work load. But then something felt wrong. He started communicating less with me. No more constant txt messages. Fewer nights on Skype. Sometimes almost a whole day went by without hearing his voice. I was devastated. He would tell me of friends… women… that he was helping. It made me jealous… he did this on purpose…it made me work more to keep him. I felt more jealous every time he mentioned another female friend of his. Then I felt he was not telling me the truth about these friends. I confronted him, but he had such convincing stories (lies) to tell me, excuses, that I felt bad for the lack of trust. He demeaned me for that. I apologized (!!! How stupid!!!) But then it became good again. I was working even more for him, hours and hours, to make him feel happy, to not push him away. But I still did not trust him, yet I loved him. I could not live without him. I told my friends about the pain I felt. Then my friends started questioning his lack of sharing the earnings with me. I would talk to my sister and she so thoroughly warned me… she asked me what I was getting out of this relationship. She saw me in constant worry and pain. She said he is thinking of himself only, he is evil… back away. I tired, but then I was in such deep pain. I was addicted to him… pain of withdrawal, glee with the return. This went on for so long. the addiction, back and forth, happiness and despair. I was blinded by love.

Then he went on a trip to meet with a relative to further our work projects. He had told me a month in advance. We spoke when he was there…. We spoke on skype when he returned. But then he told me he left his phone there. At that very moment I received a txt from his phone… it was a picture of him with another woman. The heading of the txt said “My new girl.” We were on skype so I asked him to explain this. He said he left his phone in the car of a crazy woman. But this “crazy” woman called me. She was the one he went to be with. He had sex with her. He was her new mate. She was going thru his phone and found my txt’s and 8 other women’s txt’s, talking of their love for him. He was courting 8 women at the same time!!!!! He told us all he loved us sooo much. He asked almost all of us to marry him. He gave us the promise of a happily-ever-after life. And now he was exposed. He used each one of use for something… money, sex, work, connections. When anyone of us would hold up and not perform, he would so easily move to the next. Round and round. The women started calling me. We all spoke… including his wife!!!(yes, found out that he was married!!!) and we all learned the truth. He betrayed us all. He is a narcissist, a psychopath.

He denies it all. He does not feel bad. He says those other women are crazy. I know he tells them I am crazy. He said he will not beat himself up over this. Not at all. Why should he?? He then said his life is good.. he spoke of work… his work. He says he is doing great.

He is not concerned about me, not the 8 of us. None of us matter. We all spoke for a few days, trying to console each other. Not possible.

One of the worst parts of all this... I often think about one time he and I did get together. I expected such a loving embrace. But he was cold, somewhat affectionate, but was not acting as "my hisband". He slept with his back to me. We met eachother one more time, and it was the same. I refused to acknowledge it all then. I was in my glory for just being next to him. Yes, I feel so stupid for being so blind.

So here I am. He deceived me (us). He used me (us). He cheated on me, with 8 other women. And he wont admit it!! He wont explain it. He wont apologize. He says this unfounded ridiculousness is so easily behind him, time to move on. He says he is a good man, not a stealer, not a cheater. He doesn’t care that he is killing me. He is a true psychopath. My heart is broken, I am devastated. For me, he died. I am grieving so deeply. It has been a week and a half. I am drowning. But I am here.

If you are reading these words, thanks for listening.
Posted by: 1Healing

Re: My Story - Part Two (part one for me) - 11/07/11 08:31 PM

I said he (ex h) would disappear for month I meant months. like 1-4, he'd get mad, rage over nothing then move out, drop of hat.. no word then he'd want to come back, months later.. each time appologizing, honeymoon stage, then again he would treat me so poorly.. the cycle was continual. The only blessing is that if we can survive this aftermath we are safer without them. They keep the chaos such that it is insane..
Posted by: FreeBird

Re: My Story - Part Two (part one for me) - 11/10/11 05:09 PM

Miss Treated, thats exactly what they do. They give you "affection" then take it back, which makes you feel bad and guilty. It is a very simple mechanism.
Posted by: blueheron

Re: My Story - Part Two (part one for me) - 11/10/11 10:36 PM

1Healing, you mentioned the chaos. It's the same here with my mother-in-law and her daughter. If they didn't have chaos going on over there next door, I don't know what they would do. They just love it. It's like walking into a whirlwind when you go in the front door. I have decided it is a control measure -- they're in control, and you are always off balance, not ever knowing what's next, what mood they're in, whether they love you or hate you today, etc. It can certainly serve to muddy any memory of who said or did what, and make you wonder if your imagination has gone cuckoo. I don't go over there.

Just saying -- that chaos you mention must be quite common. It's quite sad. What a way to live.

Be well and at peace without the chaos,
blue heron
Posted by: 1Healing

Re: My Story - Part Two (part one for me) - 11/12/11 03:42 PM

If I didn't love him I would have thought he was just crazy as a loon bucket but I did care for him deeply & I knew he did me .. so it was hard to watch.

It's a continual (huge) fight within himself .. it reminds me too of how the world is functioning in general & esp now. There is a definite struggle of personality / disorder.

What shocked me too is that I think at times he wanted to stop, running, the game of his life.. but he couldn't /wouldn't.
Posted by: FreeBird

Re: My Story - Part Two (part one for me) - 11/13/11 06:57 AM

1Healing - very interesting observation. I could spot this fight at the end also. I think once he saw that his games dont work anymore, he got kinda "tired" of it. So he would put all of his anger from that on me, making a hell of my life.

There may be a pattern here - they are different, and I think they know. From their point of view what they do is right - just like for us other things are right. They've no conscience so they cannot feel for others. It is this simple - they are like wild animals. You can pet them but they will always stay wild and might bite you.

So they aren't evil in the common sense of evil. They don't always want to hurt. They just do it, it's their way of life. What happens though is that this way of life is not accepted in societies.
And it goes for their way of life (being unresponsible, etc) and for the masking (lying, deceiving, manipulating, etc). So none of their ways of life can be accepted. Imagine you were in their shoes. How it must feel - you are totally different from others, you know it, you know you cannot be yourself coz otehrs would hate you.

So what they do is surround themselves with "loyal" people. My Psychopath would always repeat "he is unloyal" "you acted unloyal to me" "this was not loyal of her/him". As is loyality had only to do with "always belive in my lies, no matter what". And its just sick. Loyality is good, but it ca only work when youre honest.

I know his friends who still want to believe him because they feel guilty if they dont - he plays the same game on them as he did on me. I pity those guys.
And I know he has a gf, who is a really sad and lost person, and craves for any contact with him. And he sees her once or twice a month... Sometimes doesnt talk to her for days. Its really sad.
And he told me once, when we met long time ago, that he is happy now, because he can do what he wants and she doesnt have a clue, and she doesnt ask. And if she does he will end it with her. Sad sad sad...
These ppl never change.
Posted by: skybluepaint

Re: My Story - Part Two (part one for me) - 11/14/11 02:08 AM

Originally Posted By: NewBird
Miss Treated, thats exactly what they do. They give you "affection" then take it back, which makes you feel bad and guilty. It is a very simple mechanism.

This was the hardest part, the constant feeling on edge. I didn't approach the psychopath. She approached me, recruited me as her new best friend & counselor. Because she knew I was gay, she began to ask if maybe she was gay since she hadn't been with a guy. Throughout the time I was with her, there was this constant tug of war. In one breath, she'd proudly announces she was gay, the next she'd innocently ask, "Well, what do I do about my fantasies about men?" Then, she'd say that just because she has fantasies doesn't mean she wants to be with men and that I was more than enough! Confused?! When I would get angry about it, hurt, she would act like she didn't understand why I was angry, felt threatened. Um, because if that is what you want, I'm not it! Of course,you know the punch line, she cheated on me with a man. He was the 'sweetest guy in the world'; he was 'an ass'. He 'treated me well sexually' to 'I didn't like that dynamic (of being with a man)'. She could've been just young, immature, unsure, or bisexual. Really, she was just a chameleon, willing to put on whatever colors got her what she wanted at the moment. At that moment, she craved the chaos, wanted to hurt me, so she used him to get away from me just as she used me to get away from someone else.

The sickening thing is, after you've put up with this constant, painful, tug-of-war..... They love you. They don't. You're more than enough. You're not... you then get to watch them put on that same routine for someone else, the same routine (albeit tailored for the individual person and sex) that suckered you into being with them in the first place. It drives you crazy!
Posted by: FreeBird

Re: My Story - Part Two (part one for me) - 11/14/11 05:00 PM

skybluepaint this is sooo true!!:D
Posted by: Dianne E.

Re: My Story - Part Two (part one for me) - 07/10/12 12:17 PM

Hi, since there was a conversation going on that needed it's own thread I have set it up under My Story - Special Edition

My Story Special Edition