My Psychopath sister married a worse psychopath

Posted by: Healingsis

My Psychopath sister married a worse psychopath - 06/14/17 03:44 PM

My sister is five years younger than me. We didn't grow up together after she was 12 as I went away to college. She didn't affect my childhood other than insisting on being the golden child in her teens and frankly I was happy with my life two counties away. I have been reading about psychopaths and NPD for months because the last 20 years with my toxic sister have finally been put into a context that makes sense. I'm here because, although I'm No Contact, I'm helping my elderly mother heal from emotional abuse of my sister. My husband and kids agree with me but do not want to hear about psycho or anything she does. Psycho's antics have kept my mother and I trying to avoid her outbursts and suffering for projecting our sense of decency on her. Sister has no desire for peace or reconciliation. She targets holidays for drama.

I would like support in remaining no contact, dealing with her crap and not having it enter into my happy family life with my husband and kids. I would also like help in assisting my aging parents with her emotional abuse. My parents and brother and I are all healing in our own way and see the patterns to varying degrees but my mom (age 82)can still get hooked easily. I can also get emotionally triggered by the psycho but have managed not to react outwardly. For years, I excused her nastiness because she always plays victim and she's envious of my life and I was trying to be patient for family peace. When my intuitive daughter was 10 she told me Aunt Psycho doesn't like you (11 years ago).

Things have really gotten bad since psycho sister married a man I now believe to be a Psychopath. They are educated, own a home, and at this time have 3 biological children. Psycho has tormented by mom with not allowing her to see or have a relationship with the grandchildren since they were very young. My mom hasn't seen them in a year, prior to that it had been almost a year. Psycho has cut out of the biological children's lives: three aunts (including me and in-laws), a step child, my daughter, my brother and my mom unless she hoovers around to start the cycle again with my mom. It has come out my sister has gossiped and lied about me to many in our extended family and convinced my parents for years of terrible things about me and my husband.

The serious offenses:
1. Their oldest daughter (my sister's step-daughter) has been banished from their home since age 14. She just turned 17 and lives with her single, biological mom. Three years ago, We found out the stepdaughter had been cutting herself severely for over a year, was being given the silent treatment and started drugs and ran away. Her therapist stated she was emotionally abused. This became part of a school report.
2. Psychopath husband convinced our entire family his ex-wife was bi-polar and an unfit parent. He has never paid child support and has been a nightmare in custody hearings. Both he and my sister broke up his previous marriage, defamed and harassed his ex-wife for many years. My sister was also married at the time and they moved Psychopath into her home while her husband still lived there.
3. Sister brags about how her blank stare on scares her kids and they ask her to put on sunglasses.
4. They've manipulated tens of thousands of dollars from my parents and pitted them against each other.
5. She has tried to bait me into a public fight where I would sound obsessed and petty for over 4 years. I have her blocked on all social media.
6. She is on social media all the time. She pathologically lies. She uses flying monkey's all the time to cause drama in our family.
7. She has projected on me (to our extended family) that I am "just mean", and things she has done to me she tells people I do to her.

Thanks for listening. My father's health is bad. My mom needs peace as she is the caregiver and she deserves a pleasant holiday without the crap.
Posted by: DadofRad

Re: My Psychopath sister married a worse psychopath - 06/16/17 10:07 AM

Welcome. This community is small but hopefully we can support you. As you review the post here you will find many tales of victim at various stages of discovery, acceptance, and healing.

I find it interesting that this psychopath married a psychopath. Typically, they seem to be attracted to those they can victimize. Does your mother or father have any idea that their daughter might be a psychopath? Do they at least realize she is manipulative and turns family against each other? Asking your mother to exclude her child from the Holiday's may be too much to ask, but at least try to establish that they should set clear boundaries to maintain peace. If they are too weak to set that, you can always just set your own boundaries in that you will leave if certain things are said or start to happen. Or just stay away and visit your parents when she is not there.

My situation is different because the psycho is my adopted son. Yes, the Holiday's are worst of all, and I have made it my goal over the last 3 years to have him institutionalized as much as possible, so our holiday's are visiting him remotely when we want, on our terms. Last Christmas, we had Christmas dinner at Denny's Restaurant, took him to a store and then dropped him off again. Even those visits can be stressful for us, not because he is acting up, just because we are so on the edge when we are around him because we never know when he might blow up. I really don't know how or when we can let our gaurd down and really be friends with other families to begin healing. It's always difficult to let people get close, because if they do, they may find out of little secret and just won't understand and conclude that we must be horrible parents. Even the question, how many kids do you have is difficult, because if we tell them the truth they will ask about the missing child.

Keep posting, we all need each other's support.

Posted by: Healingsis

Re: My Psychopath sister married a worse psychopath - 06/16/17 11:19 PM

Thank you for writing. I can only imagine having this going on in your immediate family and trying to explain it. I'm a parent and I would feel conflicted. I believe my sister has NPD. She has married a Psychopath or psychopath and he definitely is the one in charge. She is a covert abuser and he is much more dangerous. At this time, she's the one who's working. Because he's had free time, he cancelled his biological daughter's (1st marriage) medical insurance (Covered California) while she is in therapy and after a hospitalization to try to financially hurt his ex-wife. It's been resolved but they create crisis all the time, act the victim, manipulate money, avoid taxes, have illegal rentals on their property etc. He is not working because he has had two businesses be taken over by their investors due to his "tyrant" behavior and inability to work with others. He's an inventor. Enough has happened over the years to lead me to believe he abuses my sister. I've stayed in contact with his daughter (they abused her terribly: she was cutting and attempted suicide. My sister still wants to destroy her and works at it). I've just tried to make sure my mom and I acknowledge her birthdays, Christmas and let her know that she didn't lose almost her entire extended family because she pissed my sister off 3 years ago when she was 14. The abuse and destruction is unbelievable and it never ends. Thanks and I'll keep you in my thoughts.
Posted by: Healingsis

Re: My Psychopath sister married a worse psychopath - 06/17/17 12:16 AM

with regard to my parents "knowing" about my sister. They acknowledge she has a personality disorder. They acknowledge she has done countless terrible things and lied. My mom has said she would raise her differently if she had it to do over. They know. They have the luxury of being protected by me and my brother. The abuse has been particularly mental for my mom the past year and she knows and acknowledges how much she is hurt by it. This is progress. I know they fear her too and boundaries have been set for some things. (They can't stay at my parents house when they're in town.) At this time, I do not plan on ever being around her for things like holidays. My mom fears getting her around me too. I'm a trigger for her. I last saw them a year ago.
Posted by: DadofRad

Re: My Psychopath sister married a worse psychopath - 06/18/17 11:13 AM

Sound like you have a solid understanding of what is going on and have set firm boundaries. I continually struggle between my love and hope for my son, with what I know is the reality of the situation. Keeping him out puts me in a manipulative role, in that I am not parenting as much as I am trying keep record of all of his questionable behaviors in order to justify keeping him out.

Posted by: Healingsis

Re: My Psychopath sister married a worse psychopath - 06/19/17 06:59 PM

I've just read your posts. I'm sorry this must be awful. I do understand the importance of a normal home life for your other kids, wife and you. Having a safe home where you can all develop family traditions etc. without the constant manipulations is so important to your other kids. All I can say is the psychos grow up and cause a lot of pain and problems. I have also watched my sister mirror behaviors and then use them on others. take care.
Posted by: DadofRad

Re: My Psychopath sister married a worse psychopath - 06/25/17 08:55 AM

Thank you for your support. It has been somewhat horrible for last 5-8 years and before that very difficult.

Here are a couple of thoughts I had lately about psychopaths:
As I was thinking about movies and media, it dawned on me that most of the films covering this are from the 80s. Whereas, now I believe these characters are more prevalent (mass shootings, terrorist, etc), there really isn't much media attention to the subject or a sign that society even want to try to understand what is happening. I'm not sure there is any good explanation for this except to blame it on the Internet and smart phone age where we are all so amused and consumed by trivia, we don't have the patience to think deeply about complex subjects. Plus everyone lives in their own political bubbles to the point, they rarely thoughtfully interact with people of differing viewpoints. I also blame the APA for changing definitions and diagnosis so many times, and being so politically correct, it makes it almost impossible to label someone without being stigmatized. Anyway, that's my soapbox for the day. What are your thoughts?

I watched We Need to Talk About Kevin again and was surprised that I noticed so much the second time how the mother was dealing with PTSD. I saw how emotionally scarred she was, isolated, having flashbacks, simply struggling to survive, and also saw that I was feeling much of the same. I wondered what the path would be to come out of this. I know I have to keep pressing forward, and not to stop caring about personal goals and goals for my family. I may not be able to fully participate in local communities yet, but I can still find satisfaction in enjoying little things in life.

Posted by: Healingsis

Re: My Psychopath sister married a worse psychopath - 06/29/17 10:50 AM

I had not thought about the accurate portrayal of psychopaths in the media. I guess its the nature of movies to capture action instead of the motivations. You're right that it doesn't require anyone to think deeply about it and it's easy to write off examples of the behavior in movies or in real-life tragedies as something only the rare "psychopath" might do. Too bad they aren't so rare and their behaviors are patterns. Maybe as we begin to address mental illness better in society as a major factor contributing to prison and hospital expenses more may come out . I've only used the word "psychopath" to describe the people in my situation twice to "outsiders" and both times have been made to feel I'm exaggerating or diagnosing people (which makes them question my version of reality). I'm going to watch that movie this weekend. I once told two very close, long time friends that I thought my sister would be happy if I was dead (destroyed). they both thought I was exaggerating. One immediately dismissed it, "Noooooo"--she's never met my sister. So I have stopped talking about it. Political correctness, positions on gun control, actual narcissists in position of power resulting in normalization of pathological lying and cruel behavior, and I can only imagine the resistance to labeling children. Interesting, my son takes medication to help in school with ADD (very helpful)--everyone is very quick to accept certain labels and "diagnosis" children of other neurological problems without many teachers tell parents their kids may be ADHD or ADD? I realize it doesn't have the same ramifications but we've made progress in understanding that some children in society are different neurologically. I'm sure you have also experienced being kept at arms length by any new health professionals who are assisting your son as they mentally evaluate you. We both have in common a strong commitment to keeping a "psychopath-free" family life for others we love. It takes its toll and truly no one outside it will really understand it. I hope you can try to enjoy your family's child-centered activities with your other children (sports teams, school events)as they are happening and enjoy the experience with the other parents. It may not be emotionally intimate but the sharing of enjoyable experiences with other parents and acknowledging it in your mind as it's happening may help you feel more connected to other parents even though you don't talk about your other son. Hang in there. Irrelevant fact, my brother (who is helping me assist our elderly parents and manage biological psycho sister) was adopted. He is my closest family member in my extended family.
Posted by: DadofRad

Re: My Psychopath sister married a worse psychopath - 07/09/17 05:12 PM

Thank you for your kind words. It is good to be reminded that every adoption is not a psychopath. I do try to enjoy my time with my normal children and give them my best even if I feel I'm in survival mode. Yes, I know the stigma of trying to explain my situation to an outsider and having them completely not get it, and think I must be some kind of nutjob or horrible parent. This is even a struggle when I talk to counselors, social workers, and child advocates (court ordered). The best I can do is just give them my records, and my journals and let them come to whatever conclusions they want. I continually make it clear though that we are afraid for the safety of our family based on his past incidents. I then give them full access to the mountain of data I have kept on him. For regular people (friends), I don't even bother to tell them about him anymore, unless I know they understand psychopathy personally. We've even had to get to the point of omitting him when people ask us how many children we have to avoid the conversation.

Right now, my son appears much better on the outside and has gotten good at remorse and empathy responses. He continues to to be so self centered though that he refuses to submit to his foster mother authority. She will ground him and he will proceed to do what he wants. He also has blown up at her to the point she is thinking about placing him elsewhere. More evidence that he is still not manageable in our home.

Did you see "We need to talk about Kevin"? What did you think? As a parent it was eerie, so many of the behaviors and development this child went through are common with these kids. Using feces as a weapon, masturbating in plain view, pushing a parent to the breaking point and then using the incident as leverage to manipulate them, infantile actions when the child is older. If you look at my earlier posts, I list his behaviors. There were other parents who used to post who sighted the exact same things and it amazed me because these behaviors seemed so off the wall, I couldn't imagine anyone else experiencing it. But they had experienced the exact same thing. Yet doctors have a hard time seeing the symptoms and diagnosing this? This is real and these symptoms are repeated in others, and half of them don't even appear on any DSM check list. I think our professionals need to get a lot better at recognizing this, they need to settle on a real diagnosis (stop painting red flags white), and a continued treatment program similar to how they address autism. Parents need real help without making them go to court and face charges, or endanger themselves and their family members.
Posted by: Healingsis

Re: My Psychopath sister married a worse psychopath - 07/13/17 11:29 AM

I watched the movie. I was angry with the dad for really being a secondary abuser of his wife by questioning her experiences and saying she was just a bad mother. I read lots of Internet comments about the movie online. Only two actually understood the kid was a psychopath. Almost all said the mom had failed on bonding with a "troubled" child. No one criticized the dad other than to say he was naive. The only two who got it, one called herself the mother of a monster and related info on psychopaths the other lightly suggested than unless u had this in your family, u wouldn't get it. There is so much secondary abuse of victims by relatives, heAlth care pros. Then society blames the parents. This sucks. I'm glad he is out of your home for your other children's sake. My dad denied my mom's concerns, hurt etc over outrageous behavior by my sister. She got to the point she felt it was her fault for acting emotionally. We have finally gotten her some validation and support. I was also treated politely at arms length by my parents for years as an adult and kept as an outsider who couldn't be acknowledged for success or fun things we were able to do (because my husband has worked very hard). They also believed all the really nasty evil things my sister said about me--for years. I'm glad we are past that but it is only because they were finally shown I'm an honest person who has helped them a lot in old age. There is an inheritance and my brother and I fully expect legal harassment and awfulness when my parents die. My dad is slowly dying and my mom is becoming disabled from arthritis in her hips. (Won't do a hip replacement). My brother is executer and I decide health care decisions in their trust. I hate my sister for all she continues to do. She and her husband appear to be getting away with it. Side note, when sister left her first husband, and moved psychopath into their home while he still lived there, she donated her eggs to the first husbands mother. I think she did it so he couldn't get any support from his family against her and to haunt him with two "sisters" (the mom had twins) who are her biological children. She also told my parents about what she did and they were too intimated by her rages to even question her. She started sending my parents baby photos of these two girls until my mom said not to send any info or photos of them. She knew it was completely hurtful to my parents. This was about 15 years ago. I wish I didn't want justice so much.
Posted by: DadofRad

Re: My Psychopath sister married a worse psychopath - 07/15/17 03:58 PM

I agree, but I saw the father as one being manipulated by the child and codependent. I suppose I'm partially that way in our family. But it didn't take me long to see that I was being played. I think I remember having an online review post of the movie too, where I had to say these people are psychopaths and they really exist because the comments were not getting it and blaming the parents. Fascinating that they can see an accurate dramatization of this, but if they are unfamiliar it, they just can't understand. It is mind blowing for the outsider to think that there are humans who cannot think humanly. They cannot bond, they cannot experience remorse, empathy, or even love. It is too easy to believe that everything thinks, acts, and responds the same way you would, but it is not always true. Deep inside, we are not all the same. Even though they are really good at pretending they are.

My son has been hospitalized again. He had a huge fit where he ran off, destroyed property of his foster mother and went into a rage. Possibly, he was trying to avoid a drug test, which I'm sure the hospital will do. I breathe a sigh of relief because I know this means it will buy us a few more months in court before they can seriously expect us to take him back. There is a federal regulation that says after one year a child in dependency needs to be placed in a permanent placement. My son is at that year mark, so it will be interesting to see what permanency they will try to enforce as we clearly cannot take him back being as unstable as he is.
Posted by: Healingsis

Re: My Psychopath sister married a worse psychopath - 07/16/17 10:44 AM

How does he get hospitalized? Is it a
Mental institution? Do the police take him? Does he go willingly? Is he upset when this happens? Does he feel failure or even see this as failure? What happens when he's in there? Is he more medicated? Therapy doesn't work and punishment doesn't work. I understand that they do respond to rewards while institutionalized? What kind of drugs do you suspect? Nothing close to what you're going through but we are now randomly doing drug tests with our youngest (normal kid). Marijuana ....with the ADD and being a teenager it's a bad mix.
Posted by: DadofRad

Re: My Psychopath sister married a worse psychopath - 07/16/17 06:58 PM

Hospitalization happens when he is a threat to himself or others. Legally, police and therapists have to initiate hospitalization if the child is a threat to himself or others. You can call police to assess and take him to a hospital, but sometimes they will dismiss it if he has calmed down or if he is not directly threatening. You can also take him to a hospital with a child psychiatric ward yourself and ask him to be evaluated. I've done this twice and both times I had to wait hours for admission. As of today, my son has been hospitalized in this manner 9 times. Also, your psychiatrists or counselor can prescribe a hospitalization if they believe the child is dangerous. Police have to take the word of a professional in this manner. Mine goes willingly because he is not attached to us and if the police take him he will be handcuffed in transport. He doesn't mind that, and I think he takes pride in it. I don't think he cares enough to consider it a failure. Also, he is so prideful, he will never feel ashamed, but will usually blame others. In this case he blamed his foster mother for not getting him his drugs on time. Now, he has learned in therapy to say the right words to make people think he is remorseful, but he is not. The hospital will not medicate him without consent, however, if consent is denied they can pursue legal means to get him medicated if you refuse. Not medicating in this state is helpful so that behaviors manifest and people see the seriousness. If the child is unstable, they may adjust the medications or take him off for re-evaluation and you can also request that. Hospitalization like this usually on last 48 hours or more if they feel he is not stable. Not all insurance covers this, so check first.

When I say institutionalize, I'm talking about sending him to a longer term (6 month) therapeutic residential program. There are different levels of this from a locked down institution to a step down facility which is less restrictive and more reward based. My son has been in 2 locked downs and then graduated to two different step down programs. All of them claimed he was all better. These are harder to get into and you will need a social worker and state DCF staffing's to approve of it. Medicaid should cover this, but it is not always easy to get it. One method is to apply for SSI (Social Security Disability) while he is hospitalized and out of your house. If you get this, then Medicaid is included. I think I have some previous posts that go more into detail about how to do this. The bottom line is hospitalize him as much as possible. This will get the attention of the schools, the doctors, and the social workers. Also have them assign you a social worker that is capable of staffing this child for an institutional placement.

My son was clean on his drug test, but I wondered especially about Marijuana in the neighborhood he is in. We saw him today and he was stable.
Posted by: DadofRad

Re: My Psychopath sister married a worse psychopath - 07/22/17 01:23 PM

My son is back with the foster mom. He was in the hospital for 5 days. He was assigned a third party person (one on one) to stay with him during his waking hours to ensure he doesn’t get out of control again. He will be placed with a new foster mom in a couple weeks. At least we now have enough evidence for the court that he is really not any better. Our pschchologist also said he would write a letter not recommending reunification for our safety. He says the older he gets the more dangerous he will be. He said that usually only doctors who have worked with prison populations have enough experience to recognize a psychopath.
Posted by: Healingsis

Re: My Psychopath sister married a worse psychopath - 07/25/17 12:22 AM

I'm glad more people are understanding the severity of it. Also hope this gives you some peace of mind.