Hello Di, If you think an individual thread would be best, that's fine with me. Thank you for answering. As far as animals, we do have 3 family dogs. My son is usually very good with the animals. Occasionally though, he has just outright kicked one when he is angry. We had a cat, but we found him being sexual with it and gave it a different home.

I would be interested in what this specialist has to say.

Hello Segaya, Yours was the first reply and was so understanding, I sobbed. I appreciate your words and your presence.

Hi Exhausted

No wonder you chose that name! I really feel for you. I thought my story was bad but yours is far worse and it’s not surprising that you are exhausted. At least we could pack my partner’s kid off to his doting grandmother. Do you get any respite care for your son? You mentioned detention and I presume you mean legal detention that doesn’t have special treatment for CD children?

Having a diagnosis of Conduct Disorder can’t be any consolation as it doesn’t offer any solutions so I suppose the only way you can get help is to have him removed permanently into legal custody. It sounds like you have tried going down every route without success.

Do you know anything about the birth parents, the mother in particular? Although I don’t suppose knowing if there was anything in their background to cause any in utero damage makes any difference now you have a diagnosis.
I do know of another parent who had a child with exactly the same set of symptoms especially the rages and they tried ignoring as much as they possibly could so the child had less to rage against but having other younger children it must have been difficult to have one set of rules for him and another for the other children. He eventually went to live with his grandmother where he was the only child.

I fully understand that you felt like the crazy one especially when you are so experienced with children, these kids have a great way of fooling the audience.
What strange advice telling a CD child their family is at fault! That person shouldn’t be practicing any form of therapy if they come up with such BS. I found the counsellor we had just as useless, he told my partner it was his fault his kid had problems because he didn’t pay him enough attention! I don’t think I have come across a single professional who has lived with a CD person let alone a psychopath so they haven’t a clue what the reality is like. Granted they may have met plenty in their line of work but the nature of the beast is to lie and charm. They won’t see the sneer on the face of the patient when he/she fools them.

It’s all well and good the court telling you he should still be in counselling but what would that achieve apart from honing his skills? I don’t suppose there is any financial help for that anyway? From what I understand the child has to have a diagnosis of something that can be ‘cured’ for that to happen through insurance.

As you have tried every avenue it seems the only thing you can now do is look after yourself and the other members of the family. This boy needs to be somewhere safe ….safe for everyone.
I don’t know how the system works in the US and whether a child can be taken into care for this sort of problem. I suppose the only alternative is to wait until he does something and taken into permanent custody.
We had got the point that was what we expected to happen but fortunately my partner’s kid decided to go back to his birth mother as he had exhausted us mentally and financially. It has been bliss since he went and he obviously doesn’t miss his father as he hasn’t phoned once since the day he left.

It was hard for my partner and it took him a long time before he could come to terms with the whole thing but so easy for me as I couldn’t bear to be in the same room as the kid. It must be hard for you to give up on any affection you have for your son. It’s not a normal experience and something your son won’t be troubled with. You will have the consolation of knowing that wherever he ends up he won’t feel sad for anyone but himself.

I wish I could say positive, inspiring things to you to make you feel better but I can sense the hopelessness.

It helped me hugely to be able to come here to the forum and vent so please feel free to say what you need to, we will be here listening even if we can’t offer constructive advice.

I think Di’s information will be good to follow up on.

Regards
Jan

It was to be an open adoption, the mother told us that her family didn't know about the baby. She told us that the father was a dealer and had shot a police officer and was in jail. Who knows what to believe. She also said she wasn't drinking or doing drugs. Not sure I believe that either. We heard from her occasionally and then one day the police came to the door and told us that she had died. The next day we received a call from the grandmother she was living with. We were told that she had left a letter that said in case something should happen, she had delivered a child and gave him up for adoption and gave our address and phone.She wanted to know all about the baby and said he had a brother who was causing serious problems at elementary school. I wanted to know why his birth mother died. She said it was a seizure in the middle of the night. I think with a note left behind, it must have been suicide. We started getting letters from a man who claimed to be his birth father, threatening to get a lawyer and take him from us. I think he was trying to extort money from us. But I wrote him a letter explaining that I had letters from the mother that said she wanted no contact with the birth father and why. And the adoption was completely legal and I had no legal reason to have anything to do with him. I can't even be sure he was the father, but recently I wish I could find him and send the boy to him.
There is no respite available because he was voluntarily relinquished in a different state. We have been told that there is no foster home equipt to take him, but even if there was, because it would be at our request and not the state removing him due to abuse, we would have to pay the monthly foster care payments. I have thought about the possibility of an adoption dissolusionment, but that would take attorneys against the state he came from on the other side of the continant. Mostly I've felt like I'm the failure. That I committed to this child for life and I shouldn't give up on him. My husband is very tenderhearted also. But that's the other thing, he is much older than I and his blood pressure is going out of control. I'm worried I'll be left alone and with the boy.
I have tried the ignoring and he just ups the anti. If he doesn't get a rise out of me by knocking over chairs or threatening, then he will actually go and hurt one of the other children knowing I can't ignore that.
We take away priviledges such as going to a friend's house, and he will tell his friends' family that we are abusive parents to get their sympathy and that we hate them and are racist against whatever race they are. When we remove his belongings such as TV or video game machine, he goes into explosive rages where he puts holes in walls and doors, pushes children around or even punches them, my 4 year old is terrified of him, and kicks dogs.
We can't physically restrain him anymore and he will cry child abuse if we use any physical punishment. Of course he likes to do that anyway, if I reach over to lightly pat him to get his attention to ask him to quiet down in church, he will say loudly, "Don't hit me." Stuff like that.
The irony is, he is constantly telling us and others that we treat him differently than the other children. He doesn't see that he treats us different than his siblings. They do their chores and respect our rules and don't go off on tyrades.
The detention I talk about is through the juvenile justice system here. It is a temporary kiddy jail for kids who need a wake up call for petty offenses and truancy. If they have room, they lock them up for a few days. He has a probabion officer who is overloaded with kids and my son is very submissive and charming to him and to the judge. So until he does a serious crime, we have these little court dates (take time off work,and go through my son's pleas and rages,) where I have to stand in front of a large number of people for my 30 seconds and try to explain to the judge, (and be careful I'm standing in the write place and don't speak out of turn or I'll be humiliated,) that I am terrifiied and helpless. Most of the time, he is just told to be good and come back the next week. If I've said too much, I will hear about it and possibly have reprocussions. He has learned to keep what he does just under what we could call the police about.

Hi exhausted, I know for adults therapy will only make the Psychopath worse. Frankly the system stinks as far as diagnosing these kids. Where in the world do people think adult Psychopath's come from, out of the blue sky? Dr. Hare has a Youth Checklist (for ages beginning at 14) and so does Dr. Frisk, I think I have Dr. Frisk's list in my files if you are interested in looking at it, let me know and I will email it to you.

It must be very hard on your family, I shudder to think of what you must be going through trying to keep all this together while watching this one child who seems to be a curve ball in the family.

I am sure that in a small but painful way you will find that you aren't alone as you read the stories in this section.

Would you mind if we moved your posts to one with a title like Adopted Child?

Can you arrange with the legal system to be able to present to the judge your information and history with this child without him being present?

Di

What is the law in your state that a child can be emancipated(sic) from adult care and make their own decisions?

Dianne, It would be fine to move my posts to one with a new title. Adopted Child is good.
I would be interested in have Dr. Frisk's list emailed to me also.
I think the only way I can get the judge to listen would be to hire an attorney to represent my husband and I. I don't believe a child can be emancipated until they are at least 16 (my son is still 13), and then they have to prove they can make it on their own. There is no way he would be able to function in the real world for very long. He can't maintain any relationships with friends or teachers. They find out he is lazy, he lies, and he will turn on them at any moment.

Hai exhausted,
I hope you are doing just a tiny little better now you found this forum..Only knowing their are others who had the same situation and survived it, can help so much in gaining energy again..But that is my experience and I just say it because I hope it will have the same effect on you.

To be really honest..and not trying to be harse but sometimes there are no easy, nice ways to say things..
I think the only way to survive this for you, your husband and you other children is to get this kid out of the house asap...
I know this isn't nice to hear but I think to have read enough of your stories to say this.
It is indeed exhausting, not only to live like this but also finding solutions. Every door seems to close, every possibillity seems to be taken away, even before you can explore it... Trying to make people not only believe what you say but understand it, is an endless road so it seem...

I kicked my son out when he was just 17...He threaten to kill me before that for 6 or 7 yeas....At the time I was very ill and he thought he could nag me to death...This was the moment I knew I had to put and end to it for real for he would have succeeded.
Him being 17 was a luxery at that moment...before he was simply to young to throw him out!
And to be honest... I was thinking of that for many years before..What if he is old enough..? will I take action? And indeed I did...Finally...

I don't know a thing about the laws and possibilities in your country and I hope you will find a way to safe you and your other children.

There are a lot of people here from the USA and maybe they can help with these kind of matters.

Don't forget, every day is a step in the right direction to solve this..So just keep going!
See you soon!!
Segaya

My parent was diagnosed a Psychopath in a mental hospital. He could not remain there beyond 90 days.
The hospital social workers and staff were very distressed over my parent and his cunning and abusive interactions, with other patients.
My parent had total disregard for patients,staff and procedures.
His care and special treatment demands were excessive towards staff.
He was released to family care.
He was not approved for self care,although the system could not deny him the right to live independently.
He was high risk,social deviance and predatory,dangerous as determined by the hospital professionals.
I was told medications and therapy would be ineffective for my parent.
Our family out of fear and his animosity towards them would not help.
They placed his care with me at my family home.
I was not able to ensure safety, control him or enforce any rules of my home or society.
My parent was a menace to my family,community and society.
Eventually my parent returned to his own home,solitary living.
My parent was told to check in with a counseling center to participate.
My parent was told to self monitor,seek help from his social worker.
My parent did not comply with the guidelines given to him.
My parent continued in criminal acts,dangerous acts against society.
I feel the system needs an in-house place for psychopaths.
It is a sad reality, anyone can be victimized by a Psychopath.
They need to be monitored.
Families,society can not absorb the danger Psychopath's impose.
We need to develop an idea for effective placement for Psychopath's.

Brain images,study of Psychopathy.
Very interesting outcome of long term study.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=127888976