Hallo all. Am new here and have found this forum by chance after spending the last few days reading up on psychopathy after catching up with a friend who works as a psychiatric nurse following my marriage breakdown. Am sure many of you have seen similar stories before - apologies to those - but I'm in a real jam and would really appreciate some help.

Story - been married year and half, relationship time with my wife for last 4 years. When I met her she was charasmatic, intelligent (tho she had dropped last 2 years out of school - her mum died when she was 12 and she went off the rails about 14 - events which are often linked to this condition) but seemed to have turned her life back round - had a job, renting her own place. We were both the partying type and just clicked from the 1st time we met - I'd got a promotion and had moved back to the area where I grew up after 6 years away and she knew some of my lifelong friends - who she counted as her friends. before we married things seemed good - both enjoyed going out, money coming in ok - but looking back over the last 4 years I can see things going downhill and with benefit of research I've been doing, worrying things. She moved into mine after 2 months - leaving behing unpaid bills which she said were misunderstandings with her landlord and the council - I helped her pay the landlord off - she immediately took to my dogs and rather than lying in at the weekend shed get up at 6am to walk them - with a seemingly bottomless energy in everything she did. 1st thing I thought was odd was her going through everything I owned - right down to the tins of car fuses in the garage after she moved in and always checking my personal mobile phone whenver she thought I wasnt aware. Sex was amazing - and for a while it seemed like everythign was great.

We had some arguments before we got married - who doesnt? which were around me workign too much (I'm a loss adjuster - my wifes jobs have been the walk in type and nothing seems to last long - she gets fed up soon after starting a new job, tries something else) so I didnt think much of this - with a mortgage and bills to pay any job miove I make has to be thought out carefully - but I love my wife and was happy to keep doing my job to make sure we could both stay together even in the times she wasnt earning or earning much.

The other thing that made us argue was her untidiness and lack of planning. I dont mind dusty skirting boards and am no nazi when it comes to things being clean, but I dont want to be in a house thats unhygenic or where important things which are needed every day - keys! - cant be found. I work 60 - 70 hours a week and theres no way I'm going to spend time looking for things and getting stressed. I've always been organised if not ruthlessly tidy - but my wifes priorities are all wrong - the minute shes finished with something it's dropped where she stands - the spreads taken oput the fridge & left open with the lid left off in the sun, her bedside cabinet is a collection of food wrappers, dirty cups, half read books.

There was one time where she blew her nose sat in the chair with the bin on one sde of her chair - but she dropped the tissue on the carpet on the other side - we laughed when I pointed it out to her saying thats exactly what I mean - but its something that never changed - despite my wife beign at home on maternity leave and then looking after ourt daughter (now 1 1/2) no housework being done while I'm working long hours and as for consequences - its like she never planned for the usual daily things - shopping, bad money management (lost count of the times I paid off small overdrafts for her - wonder now if I was allowed to discover these accidentally on purpose), huge phone bill she rang up on my work mobile to a premium rate number but denied it was her saying my phone must have been cloned - she also rang up a big bill on her dads phone when she was a teenager. Drug use (cocaine, ecstacy - I've had a dabble, but few and far between - my wife being far more enthusiastic than me and stealing here and there - bold as brass pushing a bag of dog food past the checkout as if it had been forgotten while the rest of the shopping is on the conveyor belt - she also stole off her father when she was young at home - and the pot of small change I kept in the house I keep spare coins in for door collectors, windowcleaner, etc, was always empty.

Sex which was always inventive got darker with my wife talking about pretty dark fantasies with people we knew - we then fell out again when I said things like that just weren't right - and now a 6th sense that she was seeing other people - another argument over benefits which my wife was claiming that she wasnt entitled to. All of a sudden feeling like the person I'd fallen in love with was a complete stranger - black moods where she would stay in bed all night and say she didnt know what was wrong with her - wouldnt tell the doctor, then be fine the following day, said it wasnt post natal depresion (though she had these moods before she was pregnant).

There were several times where I though she'd cheated on me - but when I challenged her was met with comoplete ferocity (she hit me once when I asked her) - and also completely over the top reactions to simple mishaps - taking the battery out of the smoke alarm after setting it off by burning the toast and throwing it against the oven door, smashing it. Kicking one of the dogs when he was in the way which I told her was never to happen again - but now noticing neither of them seemed to be the same around her now. Looking back, it seems hard not to notice things were on a really bad downward slide.

Anyhow - I'd had to stay away for work for a couple of nights. Got back to find my wife looking rough having been out all night saying she'd been at a friends, with another friend giving her a lift back and could I fetch her car from town and get our daughter from my dads as she was badly hungover. Odd atmosphere, but I went and fetched it, dropping in to see her friend who said she'd had a couple of drinks before leaving to meet another friend in town. Asked my wife where she'd been and why she's turned up at my dads 8.30pm the previous evening wth no warning asking him to babysit our daughter and she said she decided to go out and bumped into one of her bosses and he'd given her a lift home. Said this didnt add up - which is when I got punched. Called her friend again who said yes, she'd been asked to cover up for my wife who was meeting one of the company bosses in town - who I know is a regular cocaine user.
Anyhow, she admitted she'd slept with this guy saying he wasnt as boring as I was. She went off the following morning to her dads with our daughter and has since got a house by herself. This could all sound like a normal break up but I was talkng to my psychiatric friend (who has know my wife since we got together) about things - he was very concerned about what my wife said to my father the last time they met. My dad had asked her a fairly open ended question - have you tried to make things better - expecting a frosty response, but got a big happy smile with my wife saying its great - I've got a house, a car and plemnty of room for my things - and I've seen my wife plenty of times since we split and she seems to be completely unaffected by the split - easy and happy going, completely practical about childcare arrangements and the smalltalk is completely pat (I find it very painful and awkward). My friend has pointed out therer are significant childhood events that are often associated with this condidtion and behaviour shown is characteristic.

I'd hear the term psychopath before and didnt really believe him - after all a psychopath stamps around with a mad gleam in their eye (usually his not hers for a start) brandishing a knife - dont they? But I read up and - ah - the more I read the more this seems to be right.

All I'm worried about is my daughter - I still think my wife is a fantastic mum and with my job theres no way I can have a young child at home by myself even with a nursery place - I work long hours and although I work from home, often have to stay away for days at a time. My wife seems to care for our daughter even if she doesnt plan on things like taking suncream and a hat out in hot weather but when reminded will do so. From what I've read, its different for everone who suffers from it - the best metaphor I came across is like it being a piece of glass in front of a mirror - no heat comes past, but the type of fire can be many different pictures behind the glass. If I've got this all wrong - and I really hope I have - I still cant trust my wife and treatuing her as if she has got this thing I think is safest - and will be divorcing her (shes made no attempt at reconcilliation or shown any regret or sorrow - just annoyed she has been found out despite the may times she has said in the past how much she enjoyed living in the countryside with me and our familylifestyle) and now seems already immersed in a new life with new friends leaving behind me and many long standing friends behind - shes only spoken to a couple of her friends here since we split 3 weeks ago and then to get things back shes lent them.
So - assuming my wife has got this antisocial disorder -

1. Is my daughter safe short term?

2. If she is safe, what is the long term picture if my daughter is brought up by my wife?

3. What do I tell my family? Her family? Our friends - everythign I read says nobody can afford to trust such a person at all! they'll think I've gone completely mad or out for revenge!

4. Do I confront my wife - think this will make things hard for me and my daughter as my wife is currently chirpy and 'normal'

5. Do I tell her doctor - my worry is if I have this all wrong a word in the wrong place could affect my daughters life, my wifes life and even if she is a psychopath I cant make immediate changes to bring up our daughter - I was initially happy to leave this to my wife who may still do a good job of bringing up our daughter

Thanks so much

Hi Jim, welcome to the forum, glad you found us. Since this is lengthy, I will inject comments to your original posts and I am sure others will come along. Please do not feel any need to apologize everyone deserves a chance to tell their story here and you will find the community very supportive.

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Hallo all. Am new here and have found this forum by chance after spending the last few days reading up on psychopathy after catching up with a friend who works as a psychiatric nurse following my marriage breakdown. Am sure many of you have seen similar stories before - apologies to those - but I am in a real jam and would really appreciate some help.

Story - been married year and half, how soon after you married did she get pregnant and did she plan for things for the baby? Did many of her relatives or friends attend the wedding? relationship time with my wife for last 4 years. When I met her she was charismatic, intelligent (though she had dropped last 2 years out of school - her mum died when she was 12 and she went off the rails about 14 - events which are often linked to this condition) but seemed to have turned her life back round - had a job, renting her own place. Thinking back was she charming etc. for how long, before marriage or shortly after. We were both the partying type and just clicked from the first time we met

I had a promotion and had moved back to the area where I grew up after 6 years away and she knew some of my lifelong friends - who she counted as her friends. did you ever get a feeling about how your friends may have really thought of her? before we married things seemed good - both enjoyed going out, money coming in ok - but looking back over the last 4 years I can see things going downhill was there something in particular that got you thinking about the last four years and going downhill? and with benefit of research I have been doing, worrying things.

She moved into mine after 2 months Do you mean she moved in two months after meeting? - leaving behind unpaid bills which she said were misunderstandings with her landlord and the council Did she go into much detail exactly how this happened and what was your gut instinct at the time about her story? Looking back did she seem rushed to move in with you to escape these obligations? Was she currently employed?- I helped her pay the landlord off - she immediately took to my dogs and rather than lying in at the weekend shed get up at 6am to walk them - with a seemingly bottomless energy in everything she did. 1st thing I thought was odd was her going through everything I owned - right down to the tins of car fuses in the garage after shhe moved in and always checking my personal mobile phone whenever she thought I wasn’t aware.

Sex was amazing - and for a while what do you mean for a while, was it great during the courtship and how great for how long once she moved in, did she have a lot of personal things when she moved in like family photos she put on display etc.? Seemed, is that what you fit seemed like everything was great.We had some arguments before we got married - who does not? Which were around me working too much what kind of activities was she up to when you were working all those hours and was there a pattern to her complaints? (I'm a ******** - my wife’s jobs have been the walk in type and nothing seems to last long - she gets fed up soon after starting a new job, tries something else) so I didn’t think much of this approximately how long did she hold onto these jobs and what kind of hours did she put in? Was someone always to blame that made her quit? -with a mortgage and bills to pay any job move I make has to be thought out carefully - but I love my wife and was happy to keep doing my job to make sure we could both stay together even in the times she wasn’t earning or earning much.

The other thing that made us argue was her untidiness and lack of planning. I don’t mind dusty skirting boards and am never mean when it comes to things being clean, but I don’t want to be in a house that’s unhygienic or where important things which are needed every day - keys! - cannot be found. I work 60 - 70 hours a week and there is no way I am going to spend time looking for things and being stressed. I've always been organized if not ruthlessly tidy-but my wife’s priorities are all wrong - the minute she’s finished with something it's dropped where she stands - the spreads taken out the fridge & left open with the lid left off in the sun, her bedside cabinet is a collection of food wrappers, dirty cups, half read books. could be a dangerous habit with children around besides totally disgusting

There was one time where she blew her nose sat in the chair with the bin on one sde of her chair - but she dropped the tissue on the carpet on the other side - we laughed when I pointed it out to her saying that’s exactly what I mean i - but it’s something that never changed - despite my wife being at home on maternity leave and then looking after our daughter (now 1 1/2) no housework being done while I'm working long hours and as for consequences - it’s like she never planned for the usual daily things - shopping, bad money management (lost count of the times I paid off small overdrafts for her - wonder now if I was allowed to discover these accidentally on purpose huge phone bill she rang up on my work mobile to a premium rate number but denied it was her saying my phone must have been cloned - she also rang up a big bill on her dads phone when she was a teenager. Drug use (cocaine, ecstasy - I've had a dabble, but few and far between - my wife being far more enthusiastic than me and stealing here and there - bold as brass pushing a bag of dog food past the checkout as if it had been forgotten while the rest of the shopping is on the conveyor do you suspect it is being used for drugs or any idea what belt - she also stole off her father when she was young at home - and the pot of small change I kept in the house I keep spare coins in for door collectors, window cleaner, etc., was always empty.

Sex which was always inventive got darker with my wife talking about pretty dark fantasies with people we knew how long after you were intimate did she bring up this subject? - we then fell out again when I said things like that just weren't right. What was her response, that you were a prude or explain how they were right from her viewpoint? - and now a 6th sense that she was seeing other people - another argument over benefits which my wife was claiming that she wasn’t entitled to. All of a sudden all of a sudden, how long to get to this stage of feeling? feeling like the person I'd fallen in love with was a complete stranger - black moods where she would stay in bed all night and say she didn’t know what was wrong with her - wouldn’t tell the doctor, then be fine the following day, said it wasn’t post natal depression (though she had these moods before she was pregnant). could she just be coming off the drugs or maybe using it as a trick of sort to get out of something?

There were several times where I thought she'd cheated on me – do you question if the children re really yours or from an affair? When did she have time for the affairs, disappear, or have plenty of time when you worked, were they with any of your mutual friends? but when I challenged her was met with complete ferocity (she hit me once when I asked her) - and also completely over the top reactions to simple mishaps - taking the battery out of the smoke alarm after setting it off by burning the toast and throwing it against the oven door, smashing it. Kicking one of the dogs when he was in the way, which I told her was never to happen again - but now noticing neither of them seemed to be the same around her now. Looking back, it seems hard not to notice things were on a really bad downward slide

Anyhow - I'd had to stay away for work for a couple of nights. Got back to find my wife looking rough having been out all night saying she'd been at a friend’s, with another friend giving her a lift back and could I fetch her car from town and get our daughter from my dad’s has you dad ever indicated she was a bit more than off? How much can you rely on your dad and would he be willing to help spend time with your daughter while this gets sorted out. I bet your X would bite at the chance to be able to dump your daughter with your father to get her out of the way to run around with other men and drugsas she was badly hung-over. Odd atmosphere, but I went and fetched it, dropping in to see her friend who said she had had a couple of drinks before leaving to meet another friend in town. Asked my wife where she had been and why she has turned up at my dad’s 8.30pm the previous evening with no warning asking him to babysit our daughter and she said she decided to go out and bumped into one of her bosses and he had given her a lift home. Said this did not add up - which is when I was punched. Called her friend again who said yes, she had been asked to cover up for my wife who was meeting one of the company bosses in town - who I know is a regular cocaine user.

Anyhow, she admitted she had slept with this guy saying he was not as boring as I was. She went off the following morning to her dads with our daughter and since has a house by herself. This could all sound like a normal break up but I was talking to my psychiatric friend (who has known my wife since we got together) about things - he was very concerned about what my wife said to my father the last time they met. My dad had asked her a fairly open ended question - have you tried to make things better - expecting a frosty response, but got a big happy smile with my wife saying its great - I've got a house, a car and plenty of room for my things - and I've seen my wife plenty of times since we split and she seems to be completely unaffected by the split - easy and happy going, completely practical about childcare arrangements and the small talk is completely pat (I find it very painful and awkward).

My friend pointed out there is significant childhood events that are often associated with this condition and behavior shown is characteristic. [The childhood things happen when the conscience forms between 3 – 5, lots of kids have bad or hard times growing up and aren’t Psychopaths, born not madeI'd hear the term psychopath before and didn’t really believe him [very common, people think only killers etc. are Psychopath’s - after all a psychopath stamps around with a mad gleam in their eye (usually his not hers for a start) brandishing a knife they use a different kind of knife, rip your heart out and turn your life upside down- don’t they? However, I read up and - ah - the more I read the more this seems to be right.

All I'm worried about is my daughter - I still think my wife is a fantastic mum what???? gives you the idea she is such a fantastic mom???? and with my job there’s no way I can have a young child at home by myself even with a nursery place, iif there is a will a way will come to make it happen -

I work long hours and although I work from home, often have to stay away for days at a time. My wife seems to care for our daughter even if she does not plan on things like taking sunscreen and a hat out in hot weather but when reminded will do so. From what I've read, its different for everyone who suffers from it - the best metaphor I came across is like it being a piece of glass in front of a mirror - no heat comes past, but the type of fire can be many different pictures behind the glass.

If I've got this all wrong - and I really hope I have - I still can’t trust my wife and treating her as if she has got this thing I think is safest - and will be divorcing her (she’s made no attempt at reconciliation or shown any regret or sorrow - just annoyed she has been found out despite the many times she has said in the past how much she enjoyed living in the countryside with me and our family lifestyle) and now seems already immersed in a new life with new friends leaving behind me and many long standing friends behind - she’s only spoken to a couple of her friends here since we split 3 weeks ago and then to get things back she’s lent them.perhaps she has limited her friends to other drug users. What do you think she does with your daughter with her lifestyle?

So - assuming my wife has got this antisocial disorder

1. Is my daughter safe short term? Only my personal opinion, no one is safe around a Psychopath.

2. If she is safe, what is the long-term picture if my wife brings up my daughter? A life of chaos, lack of bonding and a rotten life in general. Read some stories here about victims like yourself who have to by court order etc. have their kids around their Psychopath X's Not a good deal in any way.

3. What do I tell my family? Her family? Our friends - everything I read says nobody can afford to trust such a person at all! They will think I have gone completely mad or out for revenge!people will think you have gone mad, she will show a nice loving side, and you will appear like the one with the problem. Seek out a good professional and only one who has experience in this area. Also, keep writing to us because writing also helps us to see things more clearly and we can offer whatever support possible.

4. Do I confront my wife think this will make things hard for me and my daughter, as my wife is currently chirpy and 'normal'.- she will never grasp what you are saying and only turn the tables on you. If I were you and if it was legal, I would plant cameras at her home and see what a great mother she is behind closed doors. At a minimum have cameras at your own home so when you child talks you can observe and have possible evidence for custody. NEVER try to question your child, just see what she starts saying or doing. Take notes about every little thing. See if it is legal to record phone conversations where you are. You are in for the fight of your life to get your daughter out of her grasp. I assume you are paying support, planning for the divorce and custody procedures?

5. Do I tell her doctor - my worry is if I have this all wrong a word in the wrong place could affect my daughters =l life, my wife’s life and even if she is a psychopath I can’t make immediate changes to bring up our daughter - I was initially happy to leave this to my wife who may still do a good job of bringing up our daughter she “may do a good job” is a pretty big gamble with a child raised by a Psychopath.Thanks so much

Okay, I have some comments based on who should raise your daughter based on your story so far:

*someone who lies, uses drugs and will bring a variety of drugs and men into the home?

*lets say she isn't physically violent toward your daughter can't you imagine she would be verbally abusive. Mental cruelty is every big as damaging as physical abuse.

*someone with such poor judgement to dump you daughter with no notice on your dad, I would suspect if your dad wasn't around your daughter would get dumped anywhere handy.

Personally if what you feel in your heart of hearts and have talked to your friend to identify her as a Psychopath, I would scrub toilets to get custody and be there full time. If you are lucky your wife will tire of the responsibility and you win and do the right thing for your daughter. A life of misery for your daughter can only be up to you to avoid. Look at what you have said about your wifes behaviors, do these seem like a good traits to subject an innocent child to?

Please know these are just my opinions and I hope we can explore these things further. I don't mean to come across as harsh but for over 14 years I have read enough very, very sad stories about children in custody issues with loving parents getting their hearts crushed into a million pieces having to stand by and watch the children be in the reach of their x Psychopath. Dig down deep and keep writing, I suspect it will help clarify things. Now you are saying your x does these horrible things yet saying she would be an great mother, it is either one or the other. I would have to see it on video before I would believe this is accurate about her beeing a good mother. Rothen tten mo
Be careful who you speak about any plans or thoughts to, don't antagonize her into making your daughter a pawn and want to hold on to her to spite you. Be nice to your x, it will be tough, get your father involved without all the details but see if she will accept him dropping by and taking her out for activities, from what you have said she would be probably be glad to go about her lousy life and not have the burden. If you have to pay her child support even if your daughter doesn't live with your x, do ANYTHING to get your daughter away, engaging your x in an conflict will get you absolutely no where.

Di

Before you say a single word to anyone outside of us and this ONE friend, keep it to yourself, word has a way of getting back. Do not get her in battle, then the deal is up and Psychopaths NEVER like to not win and your daughter will suffer even more.

Short on words at the moment, but I agree with everything posted above.

In my mid 40s now, still having counselling, OT therapy to deal with my dad (my psychopath parent).

I can only describe my life with him as utter hell. Utter hell. Unimaginable hell.

No child deserves that. No living being deserves that.

Thanks for the advice. I'll answer the questions here
Story - been married year and half, how soon after you married did she get pregnant and did she plan for things for the baby? Did many of her relatives or friends attend the wedding? Our baby wasnt planned and we married 3 months before she was born - yes, her family came to wedding and we have a (or had) a lot of mutual friends - low budget out of necessity but lots of people came from both our sides family and friends. My wifes moved around a bit and makes friends wherever she goes relationship time with my wife for last 4 years. When I met her she was charismatic, intelligent (though she had dropped last 2 years out of school - her mum died when she was 12 and she went off the rails about 14 - events which are often linked to this condition) but seemed to have turned her life back round - had a job, renting her own place. Thinking back was she charming etc. for how long, before marriage or shortly after hard to say exactly - everything went downhill fast about 10 months after our daughter was born. We were both the partying type and just clicked from the first time we met

I had a promotion and had moved back to the area where I grew up after 6 years away and she knew some of my lifelong friends - who she counted as her friends. did you ever get a feeling about how your friends may have really thought of her? A lot of them liked her - she seemed a free spirit but a couple (female) thought she could be bossy when she didnt get her own way and she fell out bigtime with a female friend she used to work with in a bar - she says she had to tekll her how to do everything twice even though her friend had been working there a lot longer than my wife - her friend said she was a bully precipitating the fall out which was never made up. Pretty much all our mutual friends either think shes being upset and lying low or are upset shes not returning calls or contact anymore before we married things seemed good - both enjoyed going out, money coming in ok - but looking back over the last 4 years I can see things going downhill was there something in particular that got you thinking about the last four years and going downhill? and with benefit of research I have been doing, worrying things.

She moved into mine after 2 months Do you mean she moved in two months after meeting? - leaving behind unpaid bills which she said were misunderstandings with her landlord and the council Did she go into much detail exactly how this happened and what was your gut instinct at the time about her story? Looking back did she seem rushed to move in with you to escape these obligations? Was she currently employed?- She had a job - not brilliant pay, but liveable but was living beyond her means and yes, she moved in 2 months after we met thouigh we spent most of our time at mine from day 1. I thought she was lying but I figures she was a. embarassed (I've lived beyond my means before and would be embarassed to tell a partner I was in trouble) and she kept saying it had been sorted until her landlord tracked her down which is when I helped her to pay him off. She didnt seem to be rushing in to get away - more like just not thinking about it until it absolutely had to be dealt with I helped her pay the landlord off - she immediately took to my dogs and rather than lying in at the weekend shed get up at 6am to walk them - with a seemingly bottomless energy in everything she did. 1st thing I thought was odd was her going through everything I owned - right down to the tins of car fuses in the garage after shhe moved in and always checking my personal mobile phone whenever she thought I wasn’t aware.

Sex was amazing - and for a while what do you mean for a while, was it great during the courtship and how great for how long once she moved in, did she have a lot of personal things when she moved in like family photos she put on display etc.? Seemed, is that what you fit sex was passionate, spontaneous, uninhibited on both sides but just seemed to get more mechanical after I guess year after we met - common problem I know, then got sporadic until the run up to the wedding, then our daughter was born after which it was rare - and stayed like that for year until we split up 3 weeks ago. personal objects - not many at all, some books, TV, no furniture (was landlords), framed photo of her dead mother - which she still hasnt come back for, game consoles seemed like everything was great.We had some arguments before we got married - who does not? Which were around me working too much what kind of activities was she up to when you were working all those hours and was there a pattern to her complaints? (I'm a ******** - She'd watch TV, go out with her friends - its hard for anyone to be with a partner who works long hours from home - you're there but youre not in a sense. Also things she used to do like walking dogs - we live in countryside and she said she had a phobia about butterflies so she wouldnt walk the dogs my wife’s jobs have been the walk in type and nothing seems to last long - she gets fed up soon after starting a new job, tries something else) so I didn’t think much of this approximately how long did she hold onto these jobs and what kind of hours did she put in? Was someone always to blame that made her quit? Couple of jobs she quit because she fell out with people, others because of the money or being disillusioned - pattern seemed to be with the sales jobs 'look how much I could be earning soon!' but then after couple months realising there was a lot of hard work to achieve this -with a mortgage and bills to pay any job move I make has to be thought out carefully - but I love my wife and was happy to keep doing my job to make sure we could both stay together even in the times she wasn’t earning or earning much.

The other thing that made us argue was her untidiness and lack of planning. I don’t mind dusty skirting boards and am never mean when it comes to things being clean, but I don’t want to be in a house that’s unhygienic or where important things which are needed every day - keys! - cannot be found. I work 60 - 70 hours a week and there is no way I am going to spend time looking for things and being stressed. I've always been organized if not ruthlessly tidy-but my wife’s priorities are all wrong - the minute she’s finished with something it's dropped where she stands - the spreads taken out the fridge & left open with the lid left off in the sun, her bedside cabinet is a collection of food wrappers, dirty cups, half read books. could be a dangerous habit with children around besides totally disgusting agreed, but she is organised and prepares by buying stair gates, corner protectors, plug blankers and

There was one time where she blew her nose sat in the chair with the bin on one sde of her chair - but she dropped the tissue on the carpet on the other side - we laughed when I pointed it out to her saying that’s exactly what I mean i - but it’s something that never changed - despite my wife being at home on maternity leave and then looking after our daughter (now 1 1/2) no housework being done while I'm working long hours and as for consequences - it’s like she never planned for the usual daily things - shopping, bad money management (lost count of the times I paid off small overdrafts for her - wonder now if I was allowed to discover these accidentally on purpose huge phone bill she rang up on my work mobile to a premium rate number but denied it was her saying my phone must have been cloned - she also rang up a big bill on her dads phone when she was a teenager. Drug use (cocaine, ecstasy - I've had a dabble, but few and far between - my wife being far more enthusiastic than me and stealing here and there - bold as brass pushing a bag of dog food past the checkout as if it had been forgotten while the rest of the shopping is on the conveyor do you suspect it is being used for drugs or any idea what no, more of getting a buzz out of beating the system with the chance to backpedal if anyone says you havent paid for that shed have asid sorry, I forgot, puit on air of being distracted mum in a fluster. We can afford daily life and the drug thing ionly arises when going out socially - its not as far as I know used in the house and I dont think its being done in secret at home which is where both of us would usually be - no sick days from work, routine fairly regular at home - she also stole off her father when she was young at home - and the pot of small change I kept in the house I keep spare coins in for door collectors, window cleaner, etc., was always empty.

Sex which was always inventive got darker with my wife talking about pretty dark fantasies with people we knew how long after you were intimate did she bring up this subject? Fantasies started about 6 months after meeting - tame harmeless ones at fiorst but quite dark after the wedding- we then fell out again when I said things like that just weren't right. What was her response, that you were a prude or explain how they were right from her viewpoint? she was cross - said it was just harmless fun to spice things up- we never really talked about it again and now a 6th sense that she was seeing other people - another argument over benefits which my wife was claiming that she wasn’t entitled to. All of a sudden, how long to get to this stage of feeling? about 6 months ago feeling like the person I'd fallen in love with was a complete stranger - black moods where she would stay in bed all night and say she didn’t know what was wrong with her - wouldn’t tell the doctor, then be fine the following day, said it wasn’t post natal depression (though she had these moods before she was pregnant). could she just be coming off the drugs or maybe using it as a trick of sort to get out of something? No, dont think so. Drug use was always sporadic, but she seemed to take to it well. The moods would come out of nowhere (say after a week of usual routine with no mad nights out. Also no relation to the times when we had both gone out and dabbled with drugs - stay at home the next day taking things easy, usually tired but happy - also nothing to get out of doing Sometimes seemed to be linked to trivial knockback - say a burnt dinner and over the top reaction like throwing ther baking tray across the kitchen then storming off.

There were several times where I thought she'd cheated on me – do you question if the children re really yours or from an affair? When did she have time for the affairs, disappear, or have plenty of time when you worked, were they with any of your mutual friends? Yes - I do question if daughter is mine - could get dna done and again, cross words when I have asked my wife this. However, biological father or not, I love her and will be a father to her regardless. With divorce impending this may be an issue. But my feelings for our daughter wont be changed even if I'm not the real father. I dont keep my wife on a leash - I trusted her, so if she wanted to go out with friends, fine. Usually she'd return home or say where and who she was with if she stayed out which wasnt all that common. The time I caught her out was when I stayed away for work, but there was one time previously again when I'd had to stay away becasue of work when anotjher friend of hersd stayed over - she texted me to say they were staying was that ok - which was a mistake looking back but then I trusted her and it seemed mean for her to be at home alone while I was working away. but when I challenged her was met with complete ferocity (she hit me once when I asked her) - and also completely over the top reactions to simple mishaps - taking the battery out of the smoke alarm after setting it off by burning the toast and throwing it against the oven door, smashing it. Kicking one of the dogs when he was in the way, which I told her was never to happen again - but now noticing neither of them seemed to be the same around her now. Looking back, it seems hard not to notice things were on a really bad downward slide

Anyhow - I'd had to stay away for work for a couple of nights. Got back to find my wife looking rough having been out all night saying she'd been at a friend’s, with another friend giving her a lift back and could I fetch her car from town and get our daughter from my dad’s has you dad ever indicated she was a bit more than off? How much can you rely on your dad and would he be willing to help spend time with your daughter while this gets sorted out. I bet your X would bite at the chance to be able to dump your daughter with your father to get her out of the way to run around with other men and drugs I trust my dad implicitly and hed be more than willing to help out however he could. Since we split, both me and my dad have had last minute requests to look after our daughter. We havent discussed custody yet - my wife seems to be taking it for granted she'll be the main carer as my job makes things very hard while my wife is considering beign supported by the social if she cant make her current job pay. as she was badly hung-over. Odd atmosphere, but I went and fetched it, dropping in to see her friend who said she had had a couple of drinks before leaving to meet another friend in town. Asked my wife where she had been and why she has turned up at my dad’s 8.30pm the previous evening with no warning asking him to babysit our daughter and she said she decided to go out and bumped into one of her bosses and he had given her a lift home. Said this did not add up - which is when I was punched. Called her friend again who said yes, she had been asked to cover up for my wife who was meeting one of the company bosses in town - who I know is a regular cocaine user.

Anyhow, she admitted she had slept with this guy saying he was not as boring as I was. She went off the following morning to her dads with our daughter and since has a house by herself. This could all sound like a normal break up but I was talking to my psychiatric friend (who has known my wife since we got together) about things - he was very concerned about what my wife said to my father the last time they met. My dad had asked her a fairly open ended question - have you tried to make things better - expecting a frosty response, but got a big happy smile with my wife saying its great - I've got a house, a car and plenty of room for my things - and I've seen my wife plenty of times since we split and she seems to be completely unaffected by the split - easy and happy going, completely practical about childcare arrangements and the small talk is completely pat (I find it very painful and awkward).

My friend pointed out there is significant childhood events that are often associated with this condition and behavior shown is characteristic. [The childhood things happen when the conscience forms between 3 – 5, lots of kids have bad or hard times growing up and aren’t Psychopaths, born not madeI'd hear the term psychopath before and didn’t really believe him [very common, people think only killers etc. are Psychopath’s - after all a psychopath stamps around with a mad gleam in their eye (usually his not hers for a start) brandishing a knife they use a different kind of knife, rip your heart out and turn your life upside down- don’t they? However, I read up and - ah - the more I read the more this seems to be right.

All I'm worried about is my daughter - I still think my wife is a fantastic mum what???? gives you the idea she is such a fantastic mom???? she genuinely seems to care and is more in tune to our daughter - fuzzy thinking I know, but I already realise you cant rely on gut instincts now - and with my job there’s no way I can have a young child at home by myself even with a nursery place, iif there is a will a way will come to make it happen -

I work long hours and although I work from home, often have to stay away for days at a time. My wife seems to care for our daughter even if she does not plan on things like taking sunscreen and a hat out in hot weather but when reminded will do so. From what I've read, its different for everyone who suffers from it - the best metaphor I came across is like it being a piece of glass in front of a mirror - no heat comes past, but the type of fire can be many different pictures behind the glass.

If I've got this all wrong - and I really hope I have - I still can’t trust my wife and treating her as if she has got this thing I think is safest - and will be divorcing her (she’s made no attempt at reconciliation or shown any regret or sorrow - just annoyed she has been found out despite the many times she has said in the past how much she enjoyed living in the countryside with me and our family lifestyle) and now seems already immersed in a new life with new friends leaving behind me and many long standing friends behind - she’s only spoken to a couple of her friends here since we split 3 weeks ago and then to get things back she’s lent them.perhaps she has limited her friends to other drug users. What do you think she does with your daughter with her lifestyle?

So - assuming my wife has got this antisocial disorder

1. Is my daughter safe short term? Only my personal opinion, no one is safe around a Psychopath.

2. If she is safe, what is the long-term picture if my wife brings up my daughter? A life of chaos, lack of bonding and a rotten life in general. Read some stories here about victims like yourself who have to by court order etc. have their kids around their Psychopath X's Not a good deal in any way.

3. What do I tell my family? Her family? Our friends - everything I read says nobody can afford to trust such a person at all! They will think I have gone completely mad or out for revenge!people will think you have gone mad, she will show a nice loving side, and you will appear like the one with the problem. Seek out a good professional and only one who has experience in this area. Also, keep writing to us because writing also helps us to see things more clearly and we can offer whatever support possible.

4. Do I confront my wife think this will make things hard for me and my daughter, as my wife is currently chirpy and 'normal'.- she will never grasp what you are saying and only turn the tables on you. If I were you and if it was legal, I would plant cameras at her home and see what a great mother she is behind closed doors. At a minimum have cameras at your own home so when you child talks you can observe and have possible evidence for custody. NEVER try to question your child, just see what she starts saying or doing. Take notes about every little thing. See if it is legal to record phone conversations where you are. You are in for the fight of your life to get your daughter out of her grasp. I assume you are paying support, planning for the divorce and custody procedures?

5. Do I tell her doctor - my worry is if I have this all wrong a word in the wrong place could affect my daughters =l life, my wife’s life and even if she is a psychopath I can’t make immediate changes to bring up our daughter - I was initially happy to leave this to my wife who may still do a good job of bringing up our daughter she “may do a good job” is a pretty big gamble with a child raised by a Psychopath.Thanks so much

Okay, I have some comments based on who should raise your daughter based on your story so far:

*someone who lies, uses drugs and will bring a variety of drugs and men into the home?

*lets say she isn't physically violent toward your daughter can't you imagine she would be verbally abusive. Mental cruelty is every big as damaging as physical abuse.

*someone with such poor judgement to dump you daughter with no notice on your dad, I would suspect if your dad wasn't around your daughter would get dumped anywhere handy.

Personally if what you feel in your heart of hearts and have talked to your friend to identify her as a Psychopath, I would scrub toilets to get custody and be there full time. If you are lucky your wife will tire of the responsibility and you win and do the right thing for your daughter. A life of misery for your daughter can only be up to you to avoid. Look at what you have said about your wifes behaviors, do these seem like a good traits to subject an innocent child to?

Please know these are just my opinions and I hope we can explore these things further. I don't mean to come across as harsh but for over 14 years I have read enough very, very sad stories about children in custody issues with loving parents getting their hearts crushed into a million pieces having to stand by and watch the children be in the reach of their x Psychopath. Dig down deep and keep writing, I suspect it will help clarify things. Now you are saying your x does these horrible things yet saying she would be an great mother, it is either one or the other. I would have to see it on video before I would believe this is accurate about her beeing a good mother. Rothen tten mo
Be careful who you speak about any plans or thoughts to, don't antagonize her into making your daughter a pawn and want to hold on to her to spite you. Be nice to your x, it will be tough, get your father involved without all the details but see if she will accept him dropping by and taking her out for activities, from what you have said she would be probably be glad to go about her lousy life and not have the burden. If you have to pay her child support even if your daughter doesn't live with your x, do ANYTHING to get your daughter away, engaging your x in an conflict will get you absolutely no where.

Di

Thanks Di

Hi, Jim thanks for your reply.

The fear of butterflies was a new one, will have to see how common that is only out of my own sense of curiosity.

I know you will make the right decision and this is all fresh and probably will take some time to absorb. Hearing the word Psychopath in relation to someone you love must be a shock in itself.

We are here to support you and naturally the final decisions you will have to decide.

Over all these years, many in your situation with 1) a child with a Psychopath or 2) those raised by Psychopaths in the family have joined our community. Frankly, I do not recall one person saying either of those situations was okay and didn’t cause them great harm for many years or ever to get over the horror, pain and trauma.

We are here for you no matter what your view of the outcome is. Now everything is too new and you have a lot to think over.

We do not make decisions for others but I hope that by reading and posting you can make a well-informed decision. I would however in the meantime encourage you to avoid getting into any battles with your X and risk the possibility of escalating things to revenge using your daughter as the pawn. Also, limit the urge to try to explain to others, you are fortunate to have a friend in the field. Members normally come here because explaining to people without the experience can be a very hard situation and not receiving any validation is difficult at best.

Di

Jim,

I am dealing with exactly the same issue. I have just spent the last three years in a 'high-conflict' divorce with an extremely wealthy psychopath. She and her father have used the Court system to alienate me from my children.

The Judge in my case has refused to do anything to stop my ex-wife from abusing the Court to destroy me. Her and her family have paid over $750,000 to keep me from my children after I found out her father(the children's grandfather) was convicted of murder and also admitted to heroin trafficking.

I am seeking any cases or legal precedents where psychopathy or a personality disorder has been used to modify custody or cause a loss of custody.

The evidence of psychopathy is overwhelming in my case. I am planning on asking the Court for a Guardian Ad Litem based on her psychopathy. Any help or suggestions would be much appreciated.

CMackney,

What a horrible time you must be going through. A part of your story really caught my attention in regard to the similarity of my own experience with a psychopath. (He is the father of my daughter.) I never met his mother, because he has no contact with any of his family. However, he did tell me about her. His mother (my daughter's grandmother)was also convicted of murder. She did time in prison. I guess there is some credibility to the genetic theory behind psychopathy.

I was lucky in that the psychopath in my life was not very educated nor wealthy. My involvement with the legal system was in regards to keeping him away from my daughter. I was fortunate that the system worked for me in helping keep her safe from him. But in my case, it was not hard to prove to the courts that he is dangerous. His extensive criminal history spoke for itself.

I will keep my eyes out for any information on court cases related to psychopathy. May I ask if you are able to obtain any legal representation? Does your ex-wife have any sort of criminal history?