oh dear..I never ever thought of you or even myself as obsessive...it can just looks that way to somebody who doesn't understand...
Indeed, no individual is alike...but reading the experiences on this site, it is so weird to find our stories almost interchangable (excuse my poor english). And in dealing with the p myself, I found all individuality lacking in him...individuality as I see it...he seemed nothing but an empty shell...only destructive and not counterbalanced egodrive, pure and unadulterated...and not by his own choice either, that is exactly the point!!!! We might not be better humans, but we have the choice, with all the pain and struggle that goes with that choice...he seems not to have any choice and I don't feel I can really blame him. He is severely handicapped...but of course this is all my interpretation, I'm not all-knowing.
If I'd go by my own experience- but I might not be doing you or the p right by this, I'd say, brace yourself: none of it was real.
And it is PURE GRIEF one suffers afterwards, perhaps as bad wnen someone dies - but there I can't speak either, because I don't have that experience - though different. Because here it is not death, but intentional abuse of basic human trust. Never ever would I ridicule someone going through the grief this causes. It is the very worst.
It really takes alot of time and effort and support to get through such grief and I hope you always keep faith and know that you will heal. If you got this far, you got out, then you will!

Dear Lise Jade,
To be more clear, if I may presume (what do I know), ther person you were,the persona, must be true. Because you started the relationship truthfully, believing you had the opportunity to be even more real. When I say: going by my own experience, I'd say it's all false, I don't mean what you call your persona! I mean his intentions and feelings towards you. If he'd take away that faith in yourself and your posibilities as a person too, he's doing exactly what a psychopath does: reduce you.
I should be more precise in my responses.
ByeBye!

Wendy,

Darn! I always tell myself to "keep it short"...but when I read what people are up against then all the stuff I've gone through comes tumbling out.

I've read several of your posts. I think that even though the authorities didn't have enough evidence to pursue your Psychopath for corruption or molestation of your son, the very fact that you reported him to them, and drew their attention down on him, will be an excellent deterrent for a very long time - maybe forever, as far as sexual fondling goes. He seems to be the type of psychopath who cares about projecting a 'good image' to the world. IF his disguise is important to him, he will behave as he must to avoid EXPOSURE of his fake good-guy self. You halted his visitations for the better part of a year, and when they resumed he was required to have a 3rd person present. It's doubtful that his girlfriend (no matter how naive or dumb she may be) would consider it normal for him to fondle his son. And maybe now that he has a girlfriend to use for sex, he will lose all interest in your son that way. I hope!

My Psychopath husband (longtime ex-husband now) molested my young teen daughter during a period when I had to be gone several days from our home, three times in one month, managing my terminally ill father's medical care and other difficulties, --an 8 hour drive away from where I lived. My son is 3 years younger than my daughter, and had SHE not existed, I don't doubt that my husband would have molested my son instead. As it was, he only psychologically and emotionally abused him, falsely-blaming him for wrong-doing he had never done, in order to 'justify' bellowing at him and punishing him. I suspect that many psychopaths bolster their superficial sense of security with sex, and when they find themselves without a partner they'll use whoever is convenient and easy. You taught him that it was not safe for him to use your son.

My son was nearly 11 when he witnessed many eruptions of his father's morally insane behavior towards me and both the children. It disrupted his mental development and nearly broke his mind. I didn't TELL him "your father is a psychopath" but he saw and experienced his irrational, cruel, harmful behavior. You'd think that would confer understanding, but no it did not. Nature seems to build into children's mental wiring that they are supposed to love and trust their parents. And then on top of that there is the gender modeling thing; a father is his son's model for Manhood. Boys want/need to believe that their fathers Love them and CARE about them (even when they don't), and they seem to "need" to be able to Love their fathers even when their fathers are completely undeserving of their love.

They "protect" their ability to love their father and sustain belief that he also loves them, by refusing to consciously acknowledge his wrongdoing, and by concocting excuses or justifications for him. "He only said that, or did that, because[the excuse]" Some of the defense is driven by a survival instinct...to redefine his father as someone he can love and not feel bad about loving. But part of the defense comes from their father himself, who hasn't/doesn't/and won't acknowledge his wrongdoings. That part can cause bursts of trouble for a long time. Especially in adolescence and mid-teens, when a boy starts building his Male identity, HE doesn't believe he can learn the important aspects of "Maleness" from his mom. If there are some good men in your life who take an interest in your boy and will do some "guy activities" with him, it will afford him some balance. He can experience that other men in the world don't think or behave as his father does, and that he need not behave as his father does simply because he's his father's son.

My Psychopath exploited our son's love and trust, to undermine his school achievement, to upset me. Posturing to our son as if he were his best friend and champion, he told him that his teachers "were all morons who didn't know anything worth knowing, they weren't as smart as he (the father) was"... and he gave our son a key to his apartment close by our son's school. My Psychopath went to the school office and lied to the staff, telling them he was the custodial parent, the one to contact when there were any problems. I discovered all this a full month later, when the school finally phoned me, to see if I could shed any light on my son's many many truancies. They had tried repeatedly to contact his father whom he lived with, phoned the home and work, sent letters by mail, but had gotten no response. I took a half-day off work to visit the school with my separation agreement papers proving I was custodial parent, not his father, who had needed to be ousted from our home with an Order Of Protection. I very politely raised a bit of hell, also reported the incident to the city school board too (because the staff had no business just taking his word for it.) Then my attorney met with his attorney and threatened to have my Psychopath jailed for non-compliance with the court separation agreement, and fined heavily for undermining his son's education. Our son had fallen an entire month behind in schoolwork and never made it up. He was sporadically truant at other times during the year, half the time instigated by his father. He failed that school year. That was his reward for trusting his father. My son was/is bright and should have been able to see how stupid it was to skip school. But his father had told him he "didn't need it" and made it seem fun to ignore authority. At the same, time his father was also demonizing ME to him, "your mother doesn't know anything important, and she's obsessive --has no business telling you what to do, you don't have to listen to a word she says, Ignore Her." And demonizing counseling, "You don't have to put up with that bullshit psychobabble." He did even more damage and junk than this, but you get the idea enough from this of how seriously they can upset the flow of life and a son's development.

A close childhood friend of mine and her husband, who lived two states away, invited my son to live with them (their kids were both in college) and attend school there for a year. My son loved me, but he felt like he was splitting into pieces - couldn't tell what was right or wrong, (from his father's relentless exploitation of trust and love.) He asked to go, to get his mind back. He couldn't decline his father's company because it was his Father, and yet he understood on his own that it was disastrous fro him. We both wept. I delivered my son to live with his godparents for a year. You might wonder how I got his father's Approval for him to live with other people in another state. It wasn't hard. He really had no interest in our son or his welfare, he was all about punishing me. All I had to do was agree to his sending his child-support payments to our son directly. He was viciously happy to be depriving me of HIS money and our son's company. It was a heartbreaking time for me. I visited our son a few times during the year, over long weekends, phoned him every week, and had him home over Christmas break. His father didn't visit him at all, called him three times, and didn't have time for him during Christmas break because he had a new girlfriend he'd met through an internet dating site.
My son got his mind back. He graduated a year late from high school.

A friend of mine's husband (now ex) is probably also a psychopath. She had to move out-of-state for work and her son and daughter moved with her. Her ex-husband got remarried, to a woman who worked in concert with him to alienate my friend's son away from her --during his summer and holiday visits to them, and with letters and frequent phone appeals. Her son had been an A student, belonged to his middle school chess club, math club, and soccer team, and had lots of friends. Her son at age 14 threatened to burn her house down if she wouldn't agree to his moving back (to my town) to live with his father. My friend agreed to his moving back for a one-semester trial period, and if all went well she would agree to the change in residency. His father (and the crappy 2nd wife) convinced him he was a genius who didn't need a high school diploma. He dropped out of school two months into his high school Freshman year and never returned. His father and father's wife poisoned his mind against his mother in a thousand ways. He was praised for refusing to pick up the phone and talk to her when she called him at their house; and for yelling vulgar insults at her on the phone. The Ex and his wife modeled hideous disrespect, and disregard. He is now 24, working such jobs as he can land with an 8th grade education. His father and that 2nd wife had a baby, but motherhood was so demanding she deserted daughter and husband. He divorced and married a 3rd wife to take care of the 2nd wife's baby.

BOTH of these fathers have doctoral degrees and work in connection with universities; education was obviously important to them, and yet both manipulated their sons into dropping out of school.


I hope your ex-husband won't give you this kind of trouble. I hope you have some good MALE relatives or family friends or just abiding friends, that your son can enjoy doing some things with, so he can experience other, BETTER (mentally healthier) male influences at regular intervals than just his father. You won't need to explain to him exactly what's wrong with his father and it would be useless to even try. Teach your son moral-ethical reasoning, encourage Empathic reasoning...to consider how others feel in all sorts of situations. If he learns that he will eventually, on his own, identify and recognize what his father lacks and how he harms people.



I believe you CAN make your son strong, but suspect you will need a network of support to accomplish it, so that he is bonded to you and your close family and friends, and his own friends, schools, and activities in the area where you live, --so that in the future, no matter how strongly his father may appeal to him, your son will want to stay "in his life with you" and not desert it to follow whatever beguiling tune the psychopathic Pied Piper plays.

I understand exactly what you've encountered in counseling. I've gone through it. My daughter, son, and myself each had to try out a few different counselors before finding some we felt "Almost" understood what we were dealing with. There was no one in our mid-sized city specialized in counseling for psychopathic victims. Most psychotherapists have no special training to enable them to help the families of psychopaths. Psychotherapy is based on the premise that all parties are interested in improving ways they communicate and promoting harmony, and achieving agreements. Not only do Psychopaths themselves have no interest in any of that, they can't understand why ANYONE would be interested in those things--it strikes them as completely illogical. Compromise and cooperation are for weak suckers. When you disagree with a Psychopath, you're an enemy to deceive and outwit. My Psychopath petitioned the court to allow him access to our son's confidential counseling files, but thank God the judge denied and dismissed his petition.


Neither I, nor my friend whose son got alienated from her, recognized at the start-up, that our Exs would TRASH their son's educations, CORRUPT their mental integrity, and DULL their futures, solely to cause the Mothers of their sons, ANGUISH. It was like watching my son get slowly smothered by hate masked as love, which he couldn't yet perceive and understand because of his immature need to believe in his father's 'love', and so he unwittingly cooperated with the destruction of his own future. I managed to halt it, mine got a HS diploma and has attended some Community College courses, only time will tell if he can find serious direction and purpose. My friend lost her son; he blames her for f***ing up his life "by divorcing his Dad." She hopes that someday he will recognize how much she loves him and how much she tried to do to advance his interests.

dear Kate,

I am sorry for reading and responding to your post so late. I stayed away from the forum for a long time. Your post is totally relevant to my situation. It's hard to imagine the endurance and courage behind such a factual account.

By now the Council for childprotection has finished the interviews with the father, me and the child and they have done all background research. I'm amazingly lucky that the investigator understands the situation. Their advice to the court will be to have father and son spend more time together - but for a predetermined period. I will seek other counselling for my son, and over time this should be evaluated together with the council.

Just a few weeks ago, my son had been doing adult things with a friend again. (fellatio). Luckily, the friend did not feel violated (in his innocence) and my son did not force him to comply, and just took no for an answer when the friend didn't want to do the same thing to him. And luckily, the mother reacted levelheaded. We agreed not to let my son out of sight or hearing again. I then talked to the other mothers, and they were kind and concerned. (The first time this happened, some time ago, that mother was understandably shocked, but she also said ï had to keep my son off the streets, as if he were some roving maniac and she literally shut her door for us and also kept BOTH of her kids home from school for 3 days, in bed and crying, as she said, adding alot of pain for everyone.)

Anyway, you could say my son has a problem if he can't be allowed out of sight and hearing with his friends anymore. My counsellor wondered out loud howcome my son behaved this way (!!!!!!) and asked me if this would be just once, an incident. Because an ongoing problem would mean continuing therapy. I replied that of course I would see to it that it wouldn't happen again!!! So, end of therapy.
It is not all her fault that these counselling organisations only do short term treatment. Luckily, my contactperson at the council for childprotection understands this is a long-term story. He has advised to go to a certain other address where they don't define problems so narrowly. This way my son can still be monitored.

As you say, a child will protect his image of a loving dad whatever happens. Whatever kind of creep a dad is, he is HIS dad. Removing the dad physically from a child's life won't clarify anything for the child. The child wants his dad. Somehow he will have to make sense of it and he can only do this by his own experience. I think it is this consideration for my son that makes the council advise them to have more time together. Or else, it is simply because the dad has full custody, sexual abuse can't be proven and my son says he wants to see his dad alot more. So what can you do. legally?

Yes, indeed, a strong network of loving and supportive relationships is very important. Trust, love (of people, of content) I see as the best defense. Socially, you could consider me a loser and a dropout. But in 2 years I have managed to create such a daily life, such a network - out of nothing but my good intentions. And a pretty little house to live in, with lots of stuff to play and experiment with. (my greatest achievement). I am no longer worried and fearful - so I don't communicate worry and faer to my son. I try to inform him indirectly, taking examples from stories and plays to illustrate what is disrespectful or manipulative behaviour. My goal is to teach him to trust his own experience. My son has an emotional and very empathic character - that is him, not my work.

I have no idea how long term this story will be for him. Already he has come back from his dad a few times confused and sad. Of course, the next time he comes back happy - his dad has a fine tuned radar for not letting his compliant sheep get too disappointed and stray. Even if my son gets sad and hurt, it is not likely he will understand he is not to blame himself, however smart or sensitive he might be. When will he understand? This year? In 5 years time? Or more?

Indeed it helps that I have alerted everyone. I also told his schoolteacher to watch out if his confidence somehow lessens. The council UNDERSTANDS. That is the most important thing. They are wary and have mentioned in the report the possiblilty of incidents in the future. If anything happens, if it gets so bad I'll have to keep my son home again, at least efveryone is already informed. Yes, the father cares greatly about his appearance, so that is a strong deterrant. When he brought my son home today, he gave me a very very wary overly careful glance; he must have read my statements in his copy of the council's report. It must be pretty strange for him to have someone not only see him through but also stand up, for the first time in his life. Different from what happened to you and your friend, he is not motivated by hatred to pursue me. It is not about me, for him. Even when our son was a baby, he often gleefully mentioned his son paying for him in his old age. The fathers interest is money. Money, money, money. And a couple of other things as well. But, luckily, he is indifferent and dislikes effort. So I do not have to deal with the insane hatred that you and your friend had to deal with. He is terribly hateful, but hates exerting himself even more.

Please, tell me, do many people see through your ex or your friend´s ex?
To me, it´s a little bit like reading a plot as an all-knowing reader and then having this unbearable suspense, seeing the total ignorance of the doomed main characters who have to find out for themselves. When will they finally find out?
Being such professional men, aren´t they harder to see through for others?

Wendy,
Life has been overly busy with mini-crises with my own supposedly-grown children lately; plus I recently began working a new part-time job, so I haven't visited the site for a couple weeks,...so no apology for tardy reply necessary! I only just logged on tonight after a more than two-week absence.

I'll remark on some of your post and questions.

Your son's father corrupted your son's ideas about touching before your son even had time to learn that certain types of touching are inappropriate. You have to give your son knowledge about "okay, and NOT-okay, touching", and also empower him to say NO. Not only for dealing with his father. All children need to learn this anymore.

It's excellent that you're using examples from stories and plays to indirectly teach him about disrespectful and manipulative behavior. Your goal to teach him to "trust his own experience" is commendable too, but at present, unfortunately, he's still confused about what constitutes "Appropriate play-behavior", and you are the one who is going to have to dispel that confusion. He doesn't know it's wrong to try to fellate his playmates, because his stupid father corrupted his budding sense of right and wrong.

Until your son learns basic body-boundary information, he will continue to be the playmate who can't be out of sight or hearing when playing with his friends. Maybe you've already got some books for addressing the subject? There are books, written especially for young children, that can be very helpful. I list a few titles and authors below, but there are others. ALL children need to learn to identify what is "okay touching" and what is "NOT-okay touching", just as a matter for general safety, ...and also what words to say to halt inappropriate touching. You say your son is emotional and very empathic. That will be an advantage to him when he is older, but at present it can make him more susceptible to his father's (and other people's) manipulations...more sympathetic to Daddy's feelings (Daddy's desires.) Children want to please the significant adults in their lives.

You can simplify, basically define sexualized play-behaviors as "bad play manners."
Children enjoy pleasing adults they trust and like, they like knowing "The Rules" or you might call them the "DO's & DON'Ts" that govern play and households, so that they CAN "be good" and "be liked."

We say Please and Thank You, we take turns with toys, we never bite playmates, we are gentle with pets, we don't touch playmates private parts.

At some point when he's old enough to understand, you can explain that it's certain behaviors that aren't liked, not the child. Make up a story: A little boy who thought it was fun-play to chase and scare his friend's family's cat, doesn't get invited over to play very often, because even though his friend's mom likes the boy, she doesn't like that he chases and scares their cat. If he wants to be able to go play there, he has to stop chasing the cat. (or whatever...you can make up a better story probably!)

IF you use any of these books below (or similar) with your son, and at some point he says something like: "But if it's NOT okay for people to touch private parts, why did Daddy say it was?"
You say something like: Some grown-ups are confused about it because when they were little somebody in their life gave them confusion, but YOU don't need to be confused about it. I want you to have lots of friends and playmates and their mom's and dad's be happy when you go there because you play so well.


Books:

"Some Parts Are NOT For Sharing" by Julie K. Federico
Fish show which parts of their bodies are for sharing and which parts are not for sharing. (Pretty,fun,cartoon-illustration fish.)

"Your Body Belongs To You" by Cornelia Maude Spelman & Teri Weidner
Explains what to say and do if someone touches your body and you do not want to be touched, especially when the action involves the touching of private parts.

"It's My Body" by Lory Freeman
Discusses different types of touching and offers advice on how to react to unwanted touching.

"Please Tell" by Jessie Ottenweller
A young girl recounts how she was sexually abused by her uncle when she was four years old and tells how her parents and other adults stopped him and have helped her.

"Something Happened And I'm Scared To Tell" by Patricia Kehoe, PhD
Discusses, in simple terms, sexual and physical abuse, explains why adults may become abusive, and encourages children to report such abuse to a trusted adult.
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What can you do legally?

That depends on where you are in the world, and what the laws are. You can find out from an attorney who handles child abuse cases, what you should be keeping track of and looking out for. ONE thing you can do, that could be potentially useful if things don't improve a lot, is to keep a journal or "log" of incidents of your son's inappropriate and/or sexualized behaviors.
Jot down the date, place it occurred, names of those involved and any other witnesses, and a brief description of what happened, (or what was said)...behaviors that indicate precocious sexual knowledge, exposure to abuse, corrupt ideas, etc. It could possibly serve as "situational"(circumstantial) evidence.

This child protection council that interviewed the father and you and your son...did they observe any unusual behaviors in your son? What I'm getting at is, is there any documented evidence at ALL from any professional, that indicates the possibility he was/has been molested?


You said:
Even if my son gets sad and hurt, it is not likely he will understand he is not to blame himself, however smart or sensitive he might be. When will he understand? This year? In 5 years time? Or more?

He may not understand, really understand, until he is well into his 20's. Or older. Meanwhile, as he grows he will see that there are a great many people in the world who aren't playing with a full deck of cards, who have bats in their attic, who are oddballs,....call it whatever you want. It's easy to identify developmentally disabled people--and easy for children to 'accept' that disabled minds work differently; it's much harder for children to understand Deceitful personalities. You have to teach children about Tricksters. Folk Tales, Fairy Tales, and Fables are terrific sources. People have forever taught their young to be wary of disordered human beings, through story telling. Snow White and Cinderella's stepmothers are psychopaths. In The Little Mermaid, the Sea Witch grants wishes-- at a horrible price.

I don't know if you attend a church, but if you can find one you like that has a good Sunday School program, I'd encourage you to join it and make it part of his (your son's) life when he is with you. You don't need to agree with all it's doctrines, what you want is a friendly community atmosphere that underscores ethical behavior. (But don't pick one that dictates: Honor Thy Parents No Matter What.) Unitarian Universalists don't have a creed, but they attract thinkers with strong ethics, and encourage and promote honorable behavior and their members serving the community/town/city ... doing good deeds.

You said:
Please, tell me, do many people see through your ex or your friend´s ex?

I wouldn't say "many", but several have...after they experienced him in a variety of settings and circumstances. He is really only capable of appearing "normal" in social situations that only require very superficial interaction, (and he gets by okay in professional circles where his volume of scientific knowledge and memorized facts impress others in the field.) He has superficially polite manners, but when faced with situations that demand any empathy or understanding of ethics or ordinary morality, he's clueless and makes serious interaction blunders that insult, stupify, or shock people. Still, it's surprising how many people who experience a spike of irrational behavior from him, will turn a blind eye or create some excuse or justification, in order to stay friends with him. (Because if they didn't, they couldn't.) Many people in the world have wobbly ethics and practice "Friendship Loyalty" by excusing their friends from accountability for wrong-doing. None of the people who call themselves his friends have any personal integrity. No honor, no principles, no dignity. My children learned that as time went on. Their complaint: "All Dad's friends are weird." (Uh-huh...because they have very weak and shifty characters.)

That's all I can write for now. I wish you the best of luck!


It will be a few days at least before I log in here again.

Hi Kate, thanks so much for the list of books. I hope it is okay but I posted them in the Resource Section.

Di

Hi Di,
It's fine that you posted them. And here's another one. I came across it while looking up the authors of the ones I already posted.
I haven't seen this book, but maybe it could be useful for parents dealing with the molestation of their child/children by a Psychopath spouse/ex-spouse.

"When Your Child Has Been Molested: A Parent's Guide To Healing and Recovery" by Kathryn Hagans, Joyce Case, & Kathryn Brohl.

Kate, thanks very much, I just added your new book suggestion. I have always had this sick feeling in my stomach that this goes on more than many will either know about or able to deal with.

If as a society we don't protect our children, what statement does that make about us as the guardians of the precious children.

Di

I hope with this topic and your book suggestions we can bring this subject more out of the shadows. If it happens as often as only I can guess I think we need to have some serious conversations about it.

Hi,

I've been doing a LOT of reading over the past 3 months that I've been separated from my husband who I thought might be an N but now realize he's more likely a Psychopath which is a lot scarier. I came across this post about a woman's (Wendy, are you still here?) 7 yo son in another thread starting "is my child safe, hardly anybody understands":

"...He started making odd sexual remarks, but seemed to have fun and I ignored it, until one day he came back from his dad and accompanied these remarks with definitely unchildlike gestures and invitations. Even an adult has to LEARN this pornographic idiom by watching movies. He even mentioned his dad. I was so shocked that he said he had been joking and shut up. At that moment, he had not been alone with anybody else but my mom and his dad. Even though I still hoped that he had seen, but not done these things, I applied for help wherever I could.

Nothing much happened beyond applying. In the meantime, to find out HIS truth, I neither approved nor disapproved of his strange sexual behaviour and never asked questions. He always showed this behaviour in happy, cosy situations. Then one day, as I was cooking, and in no way leading him to this, he mentioned his dad in an unmistakable way, saying he did this with his dad and his dad did it to him, so I should do it too and dad said it was good for his body."

Well here's what I wrote about my daughter after a visit with her father:

She said her dad called her 'xxx' her 'body' and liked to touch her there, but not her bum bum. She said she did dance naked for him because he liked it. And that she wanted to tell him that he has a choo-choo when she next sees him. I asked if she'd seen Daddy's and she laughed and said no.
She has come back from his place before and said, "her xxx hurts." H shook his head when she said that in front of him.
She's often complained that it hurts to pee, her vagina is red and smelly. Doc said to put chamomile on it.
She keeps saying she wants her (breasts) to hurry up and get big.

This morning she was bugging me, really touching and just annoying me, so that I would get up – all over me. I put her in the living room to watch cartoons. When I'm talking on the phone she's licking my leg. "I'm just kissing and licking mummy". She says she likes (or her hands, or feet like) touching my "hot legs" and keeps fondling my knees. And she likes to touch my "soft skin." Normal?

If there's anyone around who's familiar with child abuse, is this explicit or is it me being a prude and over-reacting? Maybe my legs are hot, my skin is soft, children are not a-sexual... I called a child psych who said she thought I had a right to be worried. I tried to call Private Investigators but they didn't call back. I think it might be common for recently "discarded" wives to think something fishy is going on with their ex'es, or they can't be bothered, or realized I probably wouldn't be able to afford them anyway so I just out and told my H and he was "hurt" that I would think such a thing and then went on to say what he would do if anyone ever hurt her. He's actually gone off a few times about how he would hurt anyone who molested her, I mean overly so, so I'm wondering, is that to throw me off? Or what's going on?

She goes to a child psych once a week but the psych told me the first thing my daughter said to her was: "I am strong and tall." Basically, don't try and mess with me because I'm strong. She won't talk about her dad when asked point blank, (says "nothing"), but does bring up things in play. "Mummy and daddy are at the top of the ladder. What do you see?" "Daddy's choo choo." But my daughter could be toying with her as she's also manipulative.

Now my daughter says when she goes over to his place, he changes her out of her t-shirt into one of his choosing, then changes it back before bringing her home. And has bought her another bathing suit, toothbrush/paste (but she never stays over) - like he's making a separate world for them over there, or is just being "odd" enough to piss me off (gaslighting) but not enough to accuse him of anything. He's enmeshed (covert incest) with his mother so I hope he isn't doing the same with his daughter.

Anyway I'm afraid because he's smart and I don't know what he's capable of (the rages and lies can be scary, and the terrible things his mother has done to me - for having the gall to ask her to stop doing something in my house that she didn't want to stop - is beyond the pale), so I can't stay a step ahead. I just try and be as loving a mother as possible and tell her to tell her dad if anything bugs her, and that she knows what's real and what isn't. For instance, she had a cold once and both her father and grandmother told her she didn't have one. I don't want her to start doubting what's real, or be "traumatically bonded" as I read in another thread, or become a Psychopath herself... so many worries.

Some say it's better for a child to have their father present no matter if he's a Psychopath or not, but I'm wondering, isn't it better to take a chance and leave or have no or little contact, and have hope that I/we meet someone else who actually will behave properly?!

Thanks for your time.

Hi, welcome to our community. Did the Dr. examine your daughter, certainly he could see some issues. I would hop foot to a specialist the next time she comes home from any visits and start gathering evidence. If he has been touching or acting inappropriate which it sounds like, rush to the ER to have a complete exam for things like pubic hairs etc. You are going to need evidence, clearly I am not a MD but this doeesn't sound right.

You are going to have a tough battle but it sounds like you need some strong help to keep him from having unsupervised visitations, no vistations would be best but alarm bells are about to pop my head off.

Di

It is my personal belief that when a person lacks a conscience, all bets are off on what they might do. Porn, sex, lies, cheating, molesting children. Your daughter is in severe danger from what I am reading in your description of information.


I combined your post to Wendy's thread so we have a central place to discuss such concerns.