Where to begin. First of all, thanks so much to this forum for being here. I knew something was wrong with my oldest brother for years as he sucked the life out of a 115 year old family business and otherwise manipulated my father into pretty much paying for his and his family's cars, insurance, and lifestyle for years.

Dad died in February. Brother didnt even bother to come to the death bed and later told people we pulled the plug on Dad while he was out of town. It was like Dad was a commodity to him and the commodity dried up so he didnt care.

Brother swiftly moved in to try to control Mom and her finances to keep the gravy train running. Mom resisted and he broke off all contact.

Mom seemed to be doing well without him. Another brother and I worked to get her organized and settled. She sent an email to psycho-bro inviting them to Easter and called when they didnt respond.

Psyco-bro ripped her apart and made her promise to have a meeting with him in order to come to Easter.

I am so upset I dont know where to begin. After 30 years of unhealthy dysfunction and control by this brother over everything from the family business to other family owned ventures and members, it seemed like the rest of us were finally healing. The reign of terror was over.

Now it feels like we are back to square one. Mom is 85 and still fairly with it, but gets flustered when pressured and doesnt have a heart or mind for the finances. No matter what she says or doesnt say, psycho-bro will interpret as back to the gravy train and complete control of the rest of us.

And it isnt just about the finances with me. That may not even be the most important part as I am convinced psycho-bro will fight anything along these lines to his death. In other words, may never see any benefit from the estate and somewhat okay with that.

The worst part is going back to the unhealthy reign of terror, while having to stuff my feelings to be around Mom when he is there.

I have tried to talk to Mom about this but she wants everyone to just put on a happy face and appear for Easter. After 30 years of this, I cant do it any more for my health and well being. Everything here says "no contact" but what do you do if you want to protect your mother also?

Thanks everyone for listening. Any advice is really appreciated. Right now I am Sleepless in the Midwest and in mental anquish over it all.

Liz123..I can so identify....It's like I want everyone to get out alive except I am one of the few people involved that think (KNOW) HE'S A PSYCHOPATH.Other people have said...it's just that he has no self estem! We need to build up his self esteem!....When in all actuality he's got the motherload!!...I'm struggling too because his brother has come to me in the past to discuss his brothers (the physcho's) behavior and he was told by his therapist that he (the physcho) just needs to be built up because he doesn't have any self confidence! The therapist never even met the physcho!..Now the brother pretty much hands the power to him....I can't open my mouth for fear of looking crazy..

also I feel he told his brother lies about me..the last few months he was saying things like... sounds like your jealous of my son, in front of his brother!..When all I ever tried to do was get him to spend time with him, support him, etc.. I never even heard him call him his son before then!..I feel it's so hard to tell people when they selves are so en twinned with these monsters themselves.I blame myself too for being involved with a man who has fathered 4 children, gave three of them away (a two yr old and 3 month old twins!) and barely supported (not until it was very clear he'd go to jail again if he didn't pay)the other one..I sure wish I could talk to the ex wife!....The poor thing.

...Do we all have a gift here of knowing?....Sometimes I wish I didn't know about this disorder.....it's so difficult to deal with this truth....I seriously want to throw up thinking about what these people are doing and getting away with it.

Thanks for your comments, Becky. I feel very alone right now. My one brother who understands how sick this brother is, is out of town with his family on Spring Break. We have emailed, which helps.

I also feel somewhat abandoned by my mother all over again as it only took a couple of weeks of the cold treatment from psycho bro and she is back in the mess. She says she will not fall prety but I am not hopeful and cant guard her 24/7.

I realize I have to let it go and avoid psycho bro as much as possible, but that is very hard to do in a small house on Easter or other occassions when we are thrown together.

I dont know what was worse; to get a taste of life without him, which was so peaceful and now be back in the thick of things, or to never even have tasted the happiness of his being gone.
Sigh!!

Surely my lack of sleep isnt helping my mind right now. Maybe things will look better in the morning.

But like you said, is it better not to know? Hard to say

Hi Liz, welcome to our community. I am very sorry to read your story.

I think the dynamics are horrible. I have lived in the Midwest for the last few years and kind of understand the way families here are much different and more family orientated than how I was raised in California. My mother also went through the getting me to speak to my brother when she was in her 80's, she had supported why I didn't speak to him for over 5 years but in the end she wanted everyone to play nice. Although he isn't a Psychopath, he treated me horribly. I sucked it in for her sake and behaved like everything was okay while she was alive.

Because there is money and family business involved all I can say is to try and protect the legal aspects from your brother grabbing control. Does he still own part of the family business? You will have to watch your mother from giving in to his attempt to grab the money and push you all out. I know it isn't about money for you but it is for him. Personally I would make sure you are legally protected from him.

Do your other siblings realize what he is really all about?

I would put on that happy face for your mothers sake but be working in the background to make sure he doesn't do an end run on the finances. Does your mother have a good attorney? My sil had to get her father to put a trust in place to protect the estate from her drug addict sister. Her sister doesn't know this but she will never inherit anything until she can pass a drug test for a year, not likely she will. It was good that the trust was put in place while he was still mentally able because now that he is in his 90's and in diminished mental capacity the trust attorneys were able to have him declared unable to deal with things and it is now in their hands to manage. Her sister still continues to be a problem but with the trust attorneys in charge she doesn't have any ability to continue to rob her father.

I am guessing that you and your siblings would have a controlling interest in the businesses?

I think you are right on that he will fight for the assets and make your life miserable but if you have a trust in place it will make it harder, I don't think easier but the assets need to be protected while your mom is still able to be in charge.

I know it must be an overwhelming thing to deal with after losing your father and now having to deal with your mother.

Di

Liz123....I also wanted to comment on your comment ...Reign of terror... So well worded...That's exactly what it is!

Hi Liz, just to clarify, I am not in any way encouraging legal battles with a Psychopath, been there and done that, just trying to evaluate what your options are before any decisions.

You are right as Becky mentioned, reign of terror is a good and accurate description.

Di

Diane and Becky,
Thanks so much for your responses. It has really helped in a tough day. Glad you liked the "reign of terror". A sense of humor makes the horrid easier.

Diane, do not worry about your advice as far as legal matters. You are actually spot on. There is a family and marital trust in place.

Unfortunately Dad had all siblings as co-exectors on his will, if Mom couldnt serve. That would be a total nightmare. I believe it was also that way for the trust, but Mom changed it to age order and not co-executors, which would put me first. Unfortunately her will also reads co-executors as the four siblings, but we have discussed changing it.

I have been the one to go to all attorney and financial planning meetings and well as to probate with her. I have also organized her files and go over the bills with her. It is certainly driving psyco-bro mad. My youngest brother is okay with all of it. There is a third brother that I was once very close too. Sadly he seems to have been swayed by psyco-bro. I dont get it at all and it hurts as we were always close. So the match up is somewhat 3-2 at the moment.

Talked to Mom for a long time tonight. She truly believes she can handle psyco-bro in a meeting with him. I am not so sure. He is a master at spinning your head around with lies, manipulations and other forms of trickery. And she is in her 80's for goodness sake.

On the other hand, she seems to have a pretty good handle on his delusional and greedy nature. Naturally it is sad for her to not see the sons.

It will be nice when younger brother gets back and can help in all this.

Thanks again so much for the support. It meant the world to me today.

Liz123....Thank you for your support as well....Diane too.

Found out tonight that Psyco brother and wife ARE coming to our Easter celebration. Only after they dragged it our forever and tortured my poor mother about seeing her grandsons. Mom wants us to put on the happy face for the sake of the sons.

Not very good anymore at being around the evil and disordered and getting particularly bad at putting on the phony happy face. How does everyone else get through it?

The planning and carrying out of the Easter Egg hunt is my job, so that will give me something to do, but honestly the thought of even looking at brother's and even wife's face makes me ill.

I realize this is not healthy for me. That I am giving him way too much power. But how do you talk yourself into a state of mind to survive these family occassions?

Hi Liz, sorry they are coming, they survive on chaos that they put others through.

I had a couple of thoughts, first about the family trust. It is great you are already a major role player for your mother, would she consider not having all those co-executors?

I don't know about the laws in your state but I know when my Aunt made out her and so did my mothers psycho husband there was a clause that if anyone challenges the will they are automatically tossed out.

Your mother may just be seeing how things play out with your brother, think she knows he is rotten all the way but perhaps she wants to meet with him in private to test how far he will try to sway things, just thinking out loud.

As far as joining in with the family over Easter, I think you have that as an issue all it's own. To me it sounds like the time to take care of what your mom wants to see, I doubt she expects you to fawn all over them but to be polite and respectful of the event for her sake. If he has a past of trying to bait you which most of them do then I would prepare some standard lines like, oh, that is interesting, oh, excuse me, the kids need my help now, oh, gee, I never thought about it that way. Play a role like you are a famous actress on stage and doing a command performance for the sake of your mother. Be prepared for your role, protect your energy field from him and his wife. The most important part is to stay with your breathe one breathe at a time and when you see yourself start to spin off center, go back to your breathe. Be in the moment and let it all roll off you. Another way to think of it and I am not a poker player but a good poker player never shows their hand, no rolling of the eyes, sighs of disgust, don't let them see what you know or give them a reaction that they can feed off of.

I know it sounds easier than it is, but with practice I know you can do it, you know what they are and that is the first big hurdle. You have knowledge of how they will act, only you can predict and control how you will act.

I would suggest to keep telling yourself you are on the stage solely for the sake of your mother, she is older and the time with her needs to be free of chaos from your end, you can't control how they may choose to behave.

I don't know if you have a glass of wine or so at social events but I would not have anything to drink and to keep your mind and focus as clear as possible. I am guessing your mother needs you now more than she ever has. It has to be very hard for a parent to face what a rotten kid they have, no more accurately what an evil kid they have.

My mother passed away a few years ago and I am glad that the time I had left with her was on good terms. I put the nasty stuff aside and played along as long as she was alive. I can't say that is was always easy but it was what she wanted so I just took to the stage.

Di

I know someone who images a bell jar round her. None of the badness can get past it, as it protects her.

I have a magic cape. A beautiful velvet one, which I can wrap round me several times, down to the floor and with a huge hood. Nothing bad gets through that.

In the end, my dad's mom, I was glad I didn't tell her everything about her son, my dad, the psychopath. But she knew, she knew. And we had a few moments of mutual respect for that knowledge we both had, and a few moments of mutual respect for choosing to protect each other.

She was very wise, wiser than I ever imagined, in her will. She left a certain amount to her daughter, with proviso that if she contested it she got nothing. And she left nothing at all to her son. She left most of her money to a very good friend, with (I think) verbal instructions as to what was to happen to it.

Weirdly my dad is not motivated by money, but the sister his. My dad is mostivated by seeing the fear in his victim's eyes, in feeling his victim's knowledge that they are trapped. He's very good at keeping someone there, at that point. If they become too disconnected, from their minds and their physical selves, he has a million different ways of bringing them back. It's like watching a surgeon at work, it's so precise.

I think the sister thought she could get him to contest his side of the will and then get her hands on whatever came his way. So not having spoken to him for half a lifetime, with no idea where he was, she went half way round the world to try and find him...a man that's basically on the run and doesn't want to be found. She did find him though, I was amazed.

But of course, she didn't realise what she was getting herself into. She's still believing the 'I'm a victim' line that he puts out. I don't know what happened after that. I think he would be delighted to have found someone else to victimise, someone he had already broken (I'm certain she was one of his first victims).

Sorry, it's all so complicated.

Going to stop now, and try and focus back on myself. I can feel myself getting shakey and adrenaliney.

Thank you Diane and Starry,
So many good suggestions. I am working on Mom taking out the co-executor part. Had mentioned to her previously about putting a clause in that if you contest the will, you are out. The sad part is Mom gets confused easily and since PB is the epitomy of manipulation and evil, he will use that to his advantage. Will keep working on her to have someone else in this meeting.

I am not proud of the toll this has taken on me. Have overcome many obstacles in my life to be happy, so dont like the fear and anxiety now in my life. As you know, the disordered breed on that.

Today I searched for a talisman. Mom recently gave me her original wedding ring and engagement ring. Her fingers were so tiny I can only get it on my little finger, but may wear that tomorrow to ward off evil. Also, we have some Cherokee blood and I have an extensive collection of Indian artifacts that I have found. May stick one of those in my pockets. (The enormity of evil may require more than one talisman)

I love the idea of the cape and bell jar, too. Have spoken to my friends of "The cone of serenity". Like "Keep your crazy away from me". Will evoke the cone also.

I still worry incessantly about "The Meeting". He is so adroit at a variety of tactics to get his way. I am not sure Mom can ward him off, although she is sure she can. It has been his life's work to get money, insurance, cars, credit cards, etc., out of my father. He had 40 years of success and still couldnt bother to come to his father's death bed. (I feel like a character is some movie about tangible evil...a evil so palpable, it has a shape)

Interesting Debbie brought up alcohol. I found out at a very early age I could not drink. Have 28 years of sobriety. Unfortunately the others often drink to excess during there family outings to endure. In some ways that makes it more difficult for me. I dont want to drink, but their behavior when drinking, oftem makes it harder on me.

Not to rattle on excessively,.......oops.......too late......I shared a recent experience with a friend where a hawk came swooping down right before me and scared the heck out of a squirrel. The squirrel was hilarious; jumping up and down and sideways and generally freaking out. Dont know why the hawk didnt pick him up. It was a pretty small hawk.

My friend said, "Can you not see you are the hawk and he is the squirrel?" Yes, I guess she is right. PB squirrels away nuts (money), schemes, plans, tactics etc and it is never enough. I am the small hawk that scares him. But why did I know eat him? hmmmmmmm....

I also love nature and the connection to it. It has fortified me through many a tough journey.

Thanks again for listening and offering so many great suggestions.

So I sheltered myself with prayers, totems, the cone of serenity etc., and headed over to Mom's for Easter. Cant tell you how much I dreaded this

I was an internal wreck when brother and family showed up, but felt better after sitting with my two youngest nieces for awhile. They shared pictures from Spring Break.

My one sister in law, who is a Saint most of the time, and was imploring us to be calm, actually lost it a little in private, when Bro wouldnt hide his own sons easter eggs. Seeing St SIL lose it helped me a little.

Bro and wife made snide remarks all day about the condition of Mom's yard and house, which are fine by the way, and how the sons didnt get enough easter treats from the egg hunt. Yuck! Sadly when they left, everyone cheered.

A new concern is psycho bro's apparent collusion with our other brother in California. I was always closest to this brother and am totally miffed and saddened that he has taken an adverse tact with me after Dad's death. It seems mostly centered on his distaste for Mom putting me in charge of settling the estate and her finances. If he only knew how time consuming and mundane are many of the chores.

Thank you so much to everyone here for supporting me. It helped a lot. Hope all have a good week.

Liz -

Others here may have read my story before, but it is so similar to yours. We've always known that my brother has been off. He's not worked a full-time job for as long as I can remember. He either quits or is suspiciously fired from employment when he gets tired of the schedule. He sucks off of my now 84 year old mother financially, emotionally, and psychologically.

Years ago, my mom asked me if I would see what I could do to get her slow-computer fixed. My brother was unemployed at the time was constantly on it and complaining that it wasn't working properly. Imagine my embarassment, when the tech who fixed it found porn all over the hard drive. Yep, my brother was surfing for porn on his mother computer and doing who knows what else.

A few years later, I noticed my mom was acting depressed. I took her to the doctor and was surprised to find out that the same brother had kind of "over-taken" her car about a month before.

About 2 years ago, my mom fell and broke her pelvis. While she was in the hospital and we were fighting with hospital administrators about her care, this same brother was using her car without her permission. Eventually, he crashed it and didn't have the money for the deductible to pay for the repairs. During this time,he contracted bed bugs possible from a much-bragged about visit to an Asian Massage Clinic. He refused to get extermination despite my sister and another brother offering to pay for it, but insisted on visiting her home while infested.

Furthering complicating matters is that he has cancer and my mom is afraid he's going to die. Truthfully, he's more healthy than she, but you can't convince her of that because of her devotion as a mother and his lies and deceit. My sister and I helped to secure him SSDI so he wouldn't suck the financial life of my mother away.

We've know found out that after finally getting what he wants ($$$$$ through SSDI) he is now planning to move about 5 states away. Of course, he blames my sister and I for putting our foot down about the bed bugs as the reason for his departure. My mother is so caught up in his "reign of terror" that she believes him and is unable to see any differently.

I say all of this Liz because although my brother frustrates and angers me, what hurts me is my mother. She sees him as fragile. She is more than willing to throw my sister and I away because she is so manipulated by him. Sometimes, the right decisions can have devastating effects, but you've got to keep doing the right thing. When your mom is gone (I'm sorry to say) that is all that you will have.

Twin

Twin, Thank you for sharing your story. It helps so much to read of how it went for another person, although I am so sad you are going through it too.

The behavior is so insane that we wonder why everyone else doesnt see it. I think that has been one of the hardest parts for me.

That and the middle brother, who I care for very much, going over to the dark side with psycho brother. Cant tell you how much that hurts. All because Mom wanted me to help her settle my father's estate and didnt want a four sibling meeting at every turn.

There is no glory or money in the help I am giving. It fact it is taking me away from earning money because I am an independent contractor.

Now even my younger brother who was squarely in my camp seems to have doubts after talking to psycho brother. Even though he knows that brother is insane somehow he planted enough doubt in youngest brother's mind that now he is questioning how Mom and I are handling the estate. That hurts deeply too. I hope if he gets a little farther away from his conversation with psycho, the dust will clear and his thinking will too.

One part of me says, "Fine", let's have a four sibling meeting every time Mom has to write a check or fill out paperwork. But I know that will just be harder on Mom.

She is actually my main concern. She is 85 years old and not doing that great. After hearing that psycho brother now HATES her and still wants to have a meeting with her, I think the meeting will kill her and that will be his plan.

Seems like with the middle brother it is all about control. He lives a half continent away. How in the world could he control it from there? When it doesnt seem about control it seems like a male versus female thing with him. After 30 years of that from my father, I have had it with that thinking.

I know I ramble on but dont know how else to get it out of my system.

They say to disconnect from the psychopath but he just wont go away and I cant abandon my mother although some times I would just like to leave town. UGH!!

How are you doing now with your family? Do you still have to deal with it?

Liz -

I have good days and bad days.

I understand he has moved to Colorado. I also found out from another brother that he was "MAD" about all the work he had to do to secure SSDI. All the work *HE* had to do??. Shaking my head in disbelief about that one.

My sister and I paid someone to do most of the paperwork because he refused to complete it. Everything that person asked him to do, he refused to do or did in the exact opposite way that she asked so it took twice as long. Our sister-in-law re-wrote his crazy, disjointed, and sporadic work history because he "didn't see why they (the federal gov't) was being so picky." It was months of him stomping his feet, pound his chest, and criticizing us because his ego was to fragile to admit that he, his decisions, and his crazy life had led him to the point where he had a major illness, a part-time job, no insurance, no car, and no savings. He's mad at us.

Now he is living in Colorado for his next "adventure." My life is better without him in it. I haven't talked to him in nearly 2 years and it is better for me. He's a master manipulator, liar, and game player. My mom doesn't see it and may never see it, but her life will be less stressful without the daily drain of him in it. When he screws up in Colorado or has his next inevitable crisis, I will have to make some decisions about how to handle it. Because I am not just making decisions about how to have him impact me in the least emotionally damaging way, I am also making decisions about how to minimize his damage on my almost 85 year old mom. She's vulnerable.

It is one of the most deep ongoing pains of my life. There are long periods of time when I am able to put it into perspective. Other days I am just dumb struck by the thought that my mom is so brainwashed by him that she can't see him for what he is. She likes to characterize it as simple sibling rivalry. It isn't that and to characterize it as such is so minimizing of what he has done to me, my sisters, our family, and her.

It is terrible to say, but the only way it will end is when he dies.

Yes, it is sad to say that it will only end when they die. Guess the ticket is to try to protect ourselves. You are very lucky that he is out of town. I see no need for you to bail him out under any circumstance. It sounds like time for him to sink or swim. What do you think? Hope you are doing well.

Liz

Hi Twin, am sad about your ongoing issues. It is so like a Psychopath to blame people for anything when all you did was help him. Thankfully he has moved so he isn't around, lets hope he stays gone.

I think it sounds perfectly normal to think of him as dead. At least for now he won't be around to ruin your family gatherings and you can help your mom. Your mom won't ever admit it but she is one lucky mom to have you and your siblings be there for her.

Di

Thank you for saying that. My sister and I really try to hold our heads high that we've only tried to protect our mom financially, psychologically, and physically. It's not that she is mad at us, but she is too vulnerable, too scared (I supposed), and too guilty-feeling to disagree with him when he plays the victim. You're right. She won't admit that she is fortunate to have us because when we don't run interference, he psychologically over-powers her.

My family dynamic about this is a lot like families where there is incest. The adult child finally develops the insight coupled with the courage to admit and face how the brother, the father, the grandfather, etc molested them. But they are re-traumatized when their family members would rather keep it quiet because they aren't ready to face it. That is how I feel.

There is pain associated with isolation and secrecy -- of knowing something but not having the courage to speak about it. But there is also pain associated with finding the courage and then realizing that most everyone would rather have you be quiet.

I know, Twin, family dynamics play a huge role and if you count back your mother was probably raised by parents from the late 1800's so she is still dealing with how things were back then. My father's father, my grandfather shot and killed himself in my fathers sisters back yard, it was a big secret. All my life I grew up thinking he had just died. I don't even remember how I found out my mothers sister, my Aunt had run off with my grandmothers sisters husband.

Before my mother passed away she wanted my brother and sister and I to all put our pasts behind us and it was tough but I did and put on quite an act so that she died thinking things were great between us.

I inherited a box of family photos when my favorite Aunt passed away, they were photos back to the civil war and no one still living had any idea who they were.

I can't imagine how many other things were kept secret, think it was just how they operated back then.

You and your sister are doing the right thing to keep your heads held high, you will always know in your hearts that you were there for your mother even though she will never accept what her son is.

Over the years, many parents have posted that are probably more in our age group and they disappear, I can only imagine the pain they must be in. It is a tough one to accept and I imagine your mother just wants to be in peace and believe whatever she has convinced herself to believe.

You are doing the right thing, stirring things up will only make life tougher for your mother as hard as it is to remain quiet about it. It is like an elephant in the room and she will never see the elephant but you will know that you are doing everything for your mother and that is more than most children would do considering the past.

I hope he stays away, it is a good thing even though it must have been pure torture to get him on government payroll because at least he has the money to wander away.

Di

I am in a great deal of pain right now, so please forgive me if I ramble on. My mother is starting to cave to the constant pressure of at least two of my brothers. Deep in my heart, I dreaded this would happen.

After keeping the trustee of my father's trust in age order, which would put me first, she is now talking about changing it to four co-executors, because at least two of the brothers "hate" her and me for being in charge.

I can not tell you what agony this will heap on me personally. The estate will never be settled if all four of us are co-executors. One brother lives a continent away and the other problem brother will not be happy unless he can delay the process indefinitely. Being the oldest, I will probably not live that long to see it.

I can not tell you how much this hurts me. All Mom had previously talked about was how it would be best to keep it in age order and she wasnt going to change that. How I had been continually passed over by my father in favor of the boys. Now, apparently that is all out the window after just a little pressure from the brothers.

I am so hurt. It is not about the money. It is about the ongoing agony of having to deal with three other people, two who dont want to settle anything and at least one a psychopath. Plus the pain of my mother flip flopping. We had talked about this extensively, so I just dont get it.

Trying to see a bright side or just let it go, as her call, but right now in too much despair to see it that way.

It was so wondeful to have some of these decade old wounds healing in me from the favoritism towards the men. Now back to square one. Trying to look at it differently but right now in too much pain.

Thank you for listening.

Dianne - Can you please expound a little bit more about how my mom's era plays into this? I think I know what you mean, but I'd like to hear more from you about this.

Liz - I'm so sorry. I know what this is like and could so relate to your use of the term "favoritism toward men." My sister and I find this to be a motivator in my mom's behavior too. (Maybe that is what Dianne is referring to? hmm, may have answered my own question.)

My mom defers to my brothers on so much simply because they are "men." She doesn't consider that one is an alcoholic, one is untreated bi-polar, one is a psychopath, and the other most healthy one has (finally) treated major depression. They are men and despite their lives being in shambles, they have as much sometimes more influence on her decisions than my sister and I who help to care for her. It is so maddening.

My only suggestion is for you to take your time in deciding what you will do next. Because my mother is old, I've often felt an urgency about decisions that isn't actually there. If it isn't about the money, perhaps you could drop out of being a co-executor. What does the attorney say? Ours advises against any more than 2 people making decisions.

You wrote that they "hate" her and you for being in charge. Perhaps she is just trying to keep the peace. Maybe this is where the lawyer could intervene. Maybe the lawyer could be "the bad guy" and advise against it rather than you or your mom. But take your time with this.

I'm very sorry and I very much know from where you are coming.

Hi Twin, I think that although I am sad to say our age era hasn't progressed by leaps and bounds. My father had an expression that I always heard growing up and it was "little pictures should be seen and not heard".

He had a very distorted view of his father who I can still recall him telling me as a young child that he was such a great guy that he would have given us candy. Reality was that he was a mean and abusive alcoholic.

My mothers side of the family also had a very abusive father toward their mother. Her and all her sisters went on to marry alcoholics and one married an extreme abuser physically yet they claimed my grandfather was not an alcoholic when they were growing up. I have a hard time making the leap that all of a sudden as he got older he became one out of the blue.

I don't think they just talked about things back then and we had no understanding that alcoholism is indeed a disease. Heck, we weren't even allowed to speak at dinner when I was growing up, I am sure there was a lot of abuse because my brother and I have blocked out most of our childhood.

My mother when she was older before she passed away expressed regrets to me about how my brother and I were treated. I saw her for the first time as a very pained and tortured person, after she divorced my father she went on to marry another alcoholic who was evil with a high mark on the Psychopathic charts.

I think they just had this keep a stiff upper lip way of thinking. In reality if you look at our generations since I am not sure we have sped down the super highway of progress. Now we have floods of therapists and it is indeed hard to find a competent one. We have a hard time finding real friends to listen to us.

I am just guessing because I have never met your mother that she just wants to leave this earth in peace. They did the best they could with the little knowledge they had to go on.

In my case my sister was the favorite child, my brother and I were the orphans in the group.

Di

Hi Liz, I am so sad to hear your mom is waffling on what will be a life altering and very unfair no matter how you shuffle the cards with all this co executor business.

My sil was smart and she had her father while he was still capable since her mother passed away first to get the estate into the hands of trust attorneys to handle. Trust attorneys aren't always a silver bullet but at least it is in neutral hands and she is protected from her drug addict and completely nuts sister.

Do you think your mom will consider leveling the playing field and put the entire estate into the hands of trust attorneys? I know you never want any bank to be in charge but finding good trust attorneys would stop all the crap from hitting you in the back.

I know it isn't always about the money but you do deserve to be heard and I hope you can find a way to reason with your mother to put the trust in neutral hands or she will have a hand at ripping you who had been her strongest supporter to shreds.

My mothers dead husbands estate just settled this week and the initial sting of being ripped off is settling. I have a couple of things that came from his side of the family and I have someone coming by to purchase them tomorrow. Frankly if they offer me fifty cents I will get rid of them just to have nothing that reminds me of him in my life. I was recently going through old pictures and the couple I had of him I ripped up and tossed in the trash. The things we wanted that came from my mother when she was married to our father got dumped by his attorney who was in charge.

I hope your mother will be reasonable and put this all in neutral hands to protect you for once in your life. I would let her know that if it goes into this co business that you will just have to bow out rather than accept the chaos that it is certain to happen, if she wants to be fair and reasonable.

Maybe try and approach her from that angle that you just don't have the energy to fight and don't want to fight but with her going back and forth it may soon come to a time that she is no longer able to be competent to make these decisions. Besides the fact that your brothers may just be able to get her declared in competent and I can only imagine they won't use the money to ensure she is taken care of properly. I bet they will figure out the cheapest way to house her so they can get their claws in the power position. All your family worked for could very well just get sucked down the tubes to attorneys and fighting.

I am very sorry to hear what you are going through.

Di

Thank you, Dianne. I appreciate your insights. My mom is from a long line of dysfunction. Her mother was alcoholic and she was often proud of how she followed the "don't talk" rules that had been conditioned in them. That "don't talk" rule has really bitten her in the butt over all of this.

I tell my kids that the "don't talk" rule is like holding your breath while you are running. Anyone can do it for a little while, but it is nearly impossible to do in the long term.

Liz, how are you holding up?

Diane and Twin,
Thank you so much for thinking of me. It was a very stressful day yesterday. I was so, so, sad and pained. It was like all those childhood memories of being abandoned and having no voice or count, came flooding back. It was everything I could do not to just go lie down. (Had work to do, so stayed at it.)

Then later in the day, Mom leaves a message saying she remembers how her will is set up and I am the executor. That she made it this way over my father's objections. Unfortunately she is incorrect and it is not set up that way. Her will is set up for all of us to be co-executors.

She didnt know why I thought she was considering changing it. Huh? Because she said that earlier in the day. We were actually talking about the trust, not the will. I am not sure anyone in the family understands how these two documents work. I believe I do because I asked the attorney.

Tried to talk to Mom today about changing her will to just me as she stated yesterday she thought it was set up. It was too "heavy" and she didnt want to discuss. So as you can see, it is also a matter of catching her in the right frame of mind, concentration level etc.

All the ups and downs, plus criticism and abuse from my brothers is wearing, along with trying to keep my life going and Dad's estate settling moving forward.

I dont know which is worse sometimes, being somewhat in charge, at least for the moment, or being an outsider. The outsider position really hurts but the insider position has drawbacks too.

I guess one of the most unsettling things is Mom is all over the map. She wants to change her will, the trust or she doesnt want to? She seems to understand it all. She doesnt.

I did suggest to her that she put the attorney in charge of the will and the trust but she didnt want to do that.

Thanks so much for listening and caring. It helps so much to not feel totally alone. The discrimination and humiliation my father heaped on me for years and now my brothers try to continue, has been so terribly painful for me.

Liz

Liz, we are here for you and am so sorry to hear the pain in your post.

I was in a different situation but still the same pain can grab me like a hook when I let my mind go to the fact that my mothers silver and other things we wanted went to some strangers.

I think you mom is not doing well as far as her memory. When the time is right, get things in order and be in charge. Get them all in the hands of the attorney so they are safe from any further changes.

There will come a time that someone will have to make the hard decision of your mothers care and I know you will do the right thing even if it means paying for in house support as long as possible. My sil's attorney were finally at a point with his memory and age to have him declared incompetent so there was nothing her crazy sister could any longer do. Now he has in home care and the money is being spent where it should be.

Personally I would get your mother to understand when the moment is right and take her to the attorneys to get it all in writing. I would call the attorney in advance telling them what she has agreed to and have it ready for her to sign right then so the deal is done.

Please consider doing this and don't let them roll her over, she is in the later stages of life and who knows when her memory and actions won't be able to be contested by them. Stand up for yourself now while you can. I think if your father were alive and knew how they are acting he would be at least cheering you on from heaven as his wishes were long ago before their true actions came into play.

You didn't deserve to be treated all your life like you have been, I hope you can get your mother to get this thing settled before it is too late.

I had a front row seat while my mothers husbands vulture step kids came into the action. They never were there to care for him, we did it all and in the end they "won".

I hate to have these feelings but I still think at times that I hope his drug addict daughter who got most of the assets chokes on her drugs. I know it is evil to think this way and I still wrangle with those thoughts.

Today I am happy that someone is coming by to take away the couple of things I inherited from his side of the family that he gave me when I moved. I wanted the few things from my mother not her evil husband.

It is so sad when it comes to money how it brings out the absolute worst in people. I never imagined it was going to happen to us.

I hope you can get your mother into a space to discuss this and get it settled and in the hands of the attorneys. Try everything you can and know you are the only one who will be there for your mother to have the funds to do the right thing. Now it seems this is a fight to protect your mother, who knows what they might do if she is declared incompetent.

Di

Thanks so much for the support and understanding, Dian. I am so sorry you had to go through the pain of watching others swoop in and get your Mother's keepsakes. That does not seem right at all.

Your advice is very good. I tried to talk to Mom again last night about her will, but again, she didnt feel well and didnt want to talk about it. I have talked to the attorney who said it would be a simple codicil to change Mom's will to me as executor, which is what Mom said she wanted all along.

It is defeating how poorly almost all my brothers have behaved. I never realized the depth of their hatred and mistrust for a woman being in charge. Or the depth of their entitlement. Pretty overwhelming.

I must take some better care of myself as I am feeling very tired and depressed these days. I am usually an upbeat person who wakes up excited, most days. Not feeling that and having trouble sleeping, despite being tired.

This board and the support of people here have been a huge difference. Otherwise I would feel totally alone. Thank you so much for that.

How did it go when the last remaining articles were carted away? How do you feel now?

Liz, I can hear and understand how horribly draining this all is but with your mom's memory going off and of, now is the time to get it done.

Now it really is more about protecting your mom. If you don't have the complete say in her care then she will be the one suffering and you will suffer by watching it happen. I think money just sucks and brings out the absolute worst in people. I can only imagine if they had a say in her care they would just toss her in the cheapest place they could find and be done with it. You on the other had would do the right thing with the assets and make sure she can be comfortable at home as long as possible. Your dad may have favored the boys growing up and yes I know that one real well, it really stinks but I am sure he would want you to do the best for his wife.

As far as the couple of things that came from my mothers psycho husband, well, the gal showed up, I had met her at a local auction and liked her a lot. The 3 inlaid nesting tables, the smallest was a music box she said came from Switzerland and the embroidered piece was around 100 years old. I sold them to her for $40. Could I have gotten way more money by advertising them on Ebay or somewhere else, clearly, but I am thrilled when I walk into my mud/laundry room and don't see them there this morning. I feel happier, it is my space with none of his vile energy around.

Lesson to those out there if your parents are older and ask you what you would like from them and you have the opportunity, don't be shy and take it while you can you never know what might happen. Luckily the last time I saw my mother and she asked me I did take some of her older jewelry and those I will treasure forever. At least those small items didn't end up in some strangers house.

I would focus on getting your mom to set things straight for her sake, only you will make the right decisions about her care if you are in charge. Make sure the will has the no contest clause stating that anyone who contests the will is automatically tossed out.

Your mom needs you now more than ever, the past can't be changed but you can do the right thing for her. I would have the attorneys write up what needs to be signed and take her to sign it, her memory is fading and you don't have time on your hands.

I know you must feel drained, I spent the last couple of years with anxiety over what he had done to us but the final pay outs were done this week so I have to move on. Do I still feel hate, I don't like the feeling but am working on that one.

Di

Dian,
I am so glad the agony is over for you. Great to hear that the last remnants are out of your house and you can move on. Two years is a long time to live with the agony and stress.

Did talk to Mom yesterday for awhile about settling the estate. Unfortunately the couple of items of priority time wise left little energy from her to discuss things like who is her power of attorny, executor etc. Will try to keep pushing that ball forward.

Because psychopath brother still has not filed his income tax for the companies, we dont have what we need to value the shares Dad had in the companies. So we had to ask the court for an extension. I didnt want to do that but there was no other way. I talked to both the lawyer and accountant yesterday.

Will try to keep protecting myself and Mom. Just wish it would be over. The depth of my brothers hatred for me and their feeling of entitlement is much higher than I ever would have anticipated. Depressing and shocking.

My Dad did them no favors but enabling them with this false sense that only men know how to do things. I expected it from psyco but not from the rest.

Will try to do things this weekend to relax and rest for another week of battle.

How are you feeling and doing? Do you have any plans that may have been put on hold by the stress of the last year? Any things you really want to do now that this is over?

Liz:

You wrote:

"The depth of my brothers hatred for me and their feeling of entitlement is much higher than I ever would have anticipated. Depressing and shocking."

I struggle with this too. My sister and I are the youngest in the family. Our brother moved out of the house when we were in elementary school. First, he was in the military. He enlisted for 9 years and decided not to re-enlist for an additional 3 years because he "didn't like being told what to do." Supposedly, the military was supposed to "straighten him out." He worked a series of part-time jobs while living in Alaska. There was even a few years in which not one single person from our family heard from him. Then he reappeared with little explanation of where he'd been or why he didn't feel the need or desire to let anyone know where he was. Then, about 20 years ago he was diagnosed with his first bout of cancer when he was in his early 40s and returned to our home state for treatments. Originally, his doctor thought that he was not likely to survive, but with intensive chemotherapy and eventually his own bone marrow being transplanted into him he had a period of remission. He returned to Alaska and we rarely saw or heard from him except when our dad died about 15 years ago. He turned our family's life upside down for about a year and then left again. About 7 years ago, he returned.

Despite him being gone for most of my upbringing and certainly not there when our family was going through my dad's illness, he BLAMES my sister and I as the reason why he is leaving this time. The truth is he always comes and goes. Once he blamed my dad. Once he blamed my mom. Now, it is my sister and I. It is always someone else. It is so irrational and I understand that it isn't based in reality. But, understanding that it isn't based in reality does not lessen the chaos it creates among the people who don't see that it isn't based in reality.

He's always been a pot stirrer. Years ago, I stopped allowing him to backstab and gossip about family members to me. I couldn't take it. But, we' ve got some family members who are more than willing to jump into the pot and yell . . . "stir away!" As long as he has people like that around him, he'll keep stirring.

"It is so irrational and I understand that it isn't based in reality. But, understanding that it isn't based in reality does not lessen the chaos it creates among the people who don't see that it isn't based in reality."

For some reason the above comment almost made me laugh. Dont know why. Truer words were never spoken. Isnt it weird that the rational ones are dismissed while the crazy ones get to stir the pot.

It is so easy to think that we are the crazy ones. My psychopathic brother, with my father's help, tried to do lay that on me for years. And sometimes, sadly, I believed it.

Even knowing we arent the disordered often brings little peace, as everyone else is so effected by their behavior.

Hang in there. I know it is hard. You hit your brother's behavior on the nail. He always left. The excuses have just changed.

I will hand it to my Mom. She must have gotten it all these years, that bro was wack, but was tilting at windmills, trying to convince my Dad. Dad was never going to admit that his namesake was bonkers. Instead he spent decades covering his tracks and enabling his behavior.

Unfortunately a little bit of it has rubbed off on my other brothers. That the men know best and they have some stick to be involved in the settling of my father's estate. They dont seem to realize that Mom is the executor, not them. .

Twin, thinking of you and sending a big hug.

Liz

Thanks for the big hug. I need it. (I laughed a little too when I re-read what I wrote. In an odd way, it makes total sense! ha ha!)

My brothers all have psychopathic traits. Every last one of them. They've got addiction, depression, bi-polar too, but they've all got at least some of the psychopathic traits. It is hard because their pathology was reinforced by my parents' deference to males.

Yes, the deference to the males in the family is very painful. Although I knew it existed, I didnt fully realize how entitled they felt until Dad passed and Mom asked me to help with the estate and her finances. Oh, the wailing and knashing of teeth! Even the brothers I thought I had a good relationship with have stated they should be in charge and can handle it better. Geez! Had no idea how archaic they were. Shocking!

I have heard every excuse on why I shouldnt be in charge from mental illness, ( not true...what an old saw against a woman at the helm), to they just know better for some odd reason they can never back up. Sickening! Good for Mom to see through it. They would drive her crazy if they were in charge with all their useless and pompous chatter. Plus they would not have the patience to actually assist her to be in charge.

Hi Liz, glad your mom sees through it all, have you had any luck getting her to get an iron clad will in place to keep their games from harming her future health? I can only imagine in my worst nightmares the decisions they would make if they had to decide how to care for your mom in the future if they were in charge.

I would gently suggest to your mom that only you can make the right decisions when it comes to a time that she can't.

My mothers psycho husband kept my mom on feeding tubes even though that was not her wishes and she had a living will, we had no say and decided that starting a legal battle against him wasn't in anyone's best interest. I wanted to travel there and say good-bye and he blocked me from doing so. His step kids had control of my mothers ashes and refused to give any of them to us, they were the ones who spread her ashes along with his, they hated her in life but they had the ashes and we didn't get even a pinch of them to have our own services and spread them where she grew up and had the happiest times in her life. We just boycotted the services they gave for him, I requested that my name not be mentioned at the services in any form and had the trust attorney get them to agree to it or I wouldn't be in any rush to sign. They were greedy and wanted the money as quickly as possible so they agreed, I also had them say in writing they would never contact me as long as I was alive. My brother went to their house just to sit in silence and say good-by and they called the cops on him and spent the money to change the locks and accused him of stealing.

She trusted her husband and I am sure she never in her wildest thoughts imagined that most of her assets would end up with the drug addict married to an x convict.

I am saying this to stress that I don't want you to live through this horror. Sorry if I am repeating this but it is critical and we learned the hard way.

Liz in answer to your questions, yes I am moving on and have started back working on some new designs and see the light at the end of the tunnel and it isn't a train rushing my way;). I could do a tap dance when I go into my laundry/mud room and smile as I look around and don't see the things that were there.

Di

Oh, also we did level the playing field in the end when the psycho was dying. His concerned step kids never traveled the few hours to visit him, they already had the cash from my mothers account and the will changed. My brother kept a close eye on him and when the time came that the home was considering feeding tubes he got them to look up his living will which stated no feeding tubes. We well remembered the Terry Shaivo case and the step daughter in charge of their group was a total right wing Christian so we had no idea if greed would let her make the right decision to not put him on feeding tubes so my brother was able to get it taken care of. We knew that had she gotten him on feeding tubes it would just suck more money from the estate.

I hate to sound so cold but when I got the call that he had passed, you would have thought I had just hung up the phone from a call from a stranger, no reaction. I did however go on a bit of a rampage to put in mildly when I got the will in the mail, lol, I actually hit my laptop keys so hard a couple of them bounced loose. I don't thing there was a swear word I didn't use;)

Now after 14 years of being taken down by a Corporate Psychopath and losing everything I feel at peace that all of this is over.

Di

Hi Dianne
I am so glad the nightmare is over for you and you are able to move on. Sounds like a horrid battle over many years. The peace must seem very sweet at this time.

That is so sad that you could not attend your Mom's service or have any of her ashes. Of course she will live in your heart forever and nothing they can do will upset that.

It sounds like your life is finally calming down and you can get back to a normal existence. That is wondeful to hear. There is an end to it!!

I have mentioned to Mom about her will. She was so sure she had me as executor but it is not written that way. She doesnt seem in a hurry to change it. Why, I dont know. Surely psyco brother and even pouting brother will hold it up. The good news is I am the first executor of the trust. So hopefully I can keep moving things along there.

Looks like psyco brother is doing nothing for Mom on Mother's Day. How pathetic. He keeps digging the hole. And this is the guy who made sure everyone knew on my milestone birthday that his was coming up in two flipping years. Huh!? Also reminded Mom of is birthday while he was berating her after my Dad's funeral. Of course there is no sense in the world of the delusioned.

I feel bad for Mom, but she says she is okay with it. What a jerk! He has been whining and crying and keeping score his entire life. It worked with Dad but doesnt look like it will with Mom. At least pouting brother came through and the other and family will be with us tomorrow. It is so hard to make sense of some of the behavior.

I have been having some very down and overwhelmed moments. I must get back to more self protection, although I thought I was doing that.

Will think of your Mother this weekend. Do you have anything special planned?

Hi Liz,

It is a work in progress, keep finding your center and be in the present moment. Giving thoughts toward them to me is like giving free rent in your mind to the devil.



Yes, I am finally free from them all. At least I know that I did the right thing to respect and love her and they can live with their own actions.



I miss her everyday but know she is okay and safe from her life of chaos. Like a very wise friend told me the "firsts" are always the toughest. He told he he didn't really believe it until his mom passed, I didn't really believe him until I lost my mom and yes the first birthdays, Mothers Day etc. are hard but they do get easier. On those occasions like tomorrow I will sit in silence and remember the good times we had together at the end. We were never close until the last few years of her life and for that I give thanks and will always be grateful.

I suspect your mom needs you now more than ever. Keep working on being the only one in charge, that is my best advise. Don't let them drag you through their evil and protect your mom. If the best you can do is to get a no contest order in her will that will keep you better protected to help her as she ages. I would consult with the attorneys to find out the best way to make sure it is worded so if they contest the will they are tossed out.

Di

How did your Mother's Day go Dianne? Hope you were able to find some peace and a calm center.

Ours was a little rough although one pouting bro lives out of town most of the time and psycho bro was in Chicago. He finally sent a card that she received on Saturday night.

Bad news was Mom got into it with pouting bro in California and for some reason took it out on me throughout the day. In the past she has tended to snipe at me at family gatherings as a way to relieve her stress. Usually I can deflect but it was getting old. I left feeling tired and bloated from eating too much.

Oh well, another day and hopefully a better one.

I did talk to her Friday, again about changing her will. She thinks the brothers will just hate me more. I told her I can live with that to the benefit of settling the estate less painfully.

Let me know how you are doing?

Well it got worse with Mom this morning. She is still mad at me supposedly because I took over Mother's day by putting up a slide show on her computer of one of the big events we had this weekend with the nieces.

Here I was already saddened by her treatment of me yesterday and apparently she is totalled po's at me. I think it is really unfair and it hurts.

She even went so far to say I am trying to run her life and put the spotlight on me all the time. She acted like I have been acting independently of her and talking to the lawyers etc and she is not involved. That is so untrue. Any time I did anything I talked to her about it first. And many times she has told both the lawyer and others to just talk to me.

Of course it hurts but there is fear there also. Fear that this is just what the brothers have been waiting for. For her to get mad at me and saying I am doing everything wrong. Then they can swope in and say "see we were right, she cant handle it" and we are back to the reign of terror.

She went on about how she needs to take charge of her own life. Not a bad idea really. Still it just hurts and seems so unfair. She had a big blow out on the phone with my brother in California right before I got there on Mother's Day. Although I asked her repeatedly, she denied that had anything to do with her anger towards me UGH!!

Hi Liz, I am so sorry things turned bad on Mothers day. Some times people react when they know that life is coming to the end of the trail.

I don't get the sense that it was really about you but your brothers are pushing her with those ideas.

They are truly wicked and evil to be pushing her and she is probably angry about their accusations about money and their need to be in charge.

She is like a wounded child acting out and unfortunately you are her closest target, shame on your brothers for attacking her.

How about just sending her a simple bouquet of flowers and just say you love her and will be there for her. She is in a tough spot with these vultures circling the money. I don't think she is really mad at you. A lot of people really fear death and your brothers keep circling reminding her of that in order to gain control.

Be calm, I am very sorry this has happened but this too shall pass. I am sure in her heart of hearts she knows when she thinks of her actions toward you that she is attacking the wrong person. What kind of person gets their mother into an argument on Mothers Day, that must have been very painful for her. That isn't to diminish your own pain but unfortunately she is just for now turning it toward you.

Your brothers are really quite an evil combo. Hold your head up high, you did nothing wrong.

Di

Thanks so much for the quick reply, Dianne. It really meant a lot to me. I dont feel like I can talk to anyone about these things. Even my one SIL that is wonderful, may secretly be glad that Mom has turned on me, if only for the moment.

This is more like my past history with Mom. For so many years when I was a young adult or even a child, she was mad at Dad and took it out on me. You are right, though, she is like a wounded child. It makes no sense at all to take it out on me. It still hurts a lot though.

Even though I felt she had treated me poorly, I apologized profusely today and asked what I could do to make it better for her. She had no answers. Said only time.

My biggest fear is the joy my brothers could get out of this. She will surely tell my one sister in law, who will tell the one brother that is acting decent most of the time. But even he will probably get some satisfaction out of it.

I felt so trapped yesterday at Mom's house. It reminded me so much of her treatment of me when I was younger. Sniping away at me the whole time we are in public or with others. Some dark, negative thoughts were in my head briefly. Just unhealthy ways I used to numb myself in the past. It is all so unfair, but I know you are right that I need to continue to hold my head high and try not to let it get me down.

Knowing how she is in these incidences, it may be better if I do nothing at this point, but will consider flowers or some other kind gesture.

Hi Liz, I can really understand, my mother had Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) and she snipped at me like crazy my entire life. She favored my sister and my brother and I were nothing but trouble in her eyes. She never even told us she loved us until we were in our 50's. It was tough seeing her lavish her attention on our sister. In the end we were the ones who took care of her. She told my brother she never realized how much I had done until I moved far away. It was only then the sniping stopped and we actually had a very good relationship, I called her twice a day to check in and she only snipped once and apologized the next day, talk about a turn around.

When she used to visit me it was like having Bette Davis in her character, Whatever Happened to Baby Jane enter my home, she barely got a foot in the door and the attacks started.

I finally after all these years found a great psychologist, I don't want to rehash the past I just want to deal with the images of myself that are so negative. I want this hyper alert feeling that something is wrong with me to go away and move forward.

I would just hang in there because only you will protect her interests in the future as she gets older and can no longer make her own decisions.

I can only imagine that indeed she is like a wounded child and being assaulted by your brothers certainly will bring back the attacks on you, very misplaced but that is how some family dynamics operate.

When the time is right, she needs to understand that only you will do the right thing. I am sure she is living in horror over seeing your brothers circle like vultures over their future money. Sickening what money does to a family, like something you see other families do but would never expect from your own. Who on earth attacks their elderly mother like they are doing but some very twisted and evil beings.

After what you have said about more of your history, flowers are something to think about in the future as some random act of kindness or something else she may enjoy but for now it is probably the best tactic to hang back and let her make the next move. Let her miss you and ask for your help, she is circled by her evil sons so she needs to make the next move, imo. Are you the only sibling who lives near her?

Di

Dianne,
I had to laugh at the Betty Davis character. That is close, without the chain smoking. My mother is actually a remarkable woman in many ways. She and her sister were stuck in an orphanage from age 2-12 although her mother was still alive. Just found out a month ago she was sexually abused in the orphanage. she often appears like a child to me in situations like when she is angry, frustrated etc.

In many ways I was the adult in my own childhood, which I realize was not healthy at all for me. But I was thrust there between Mom's issues, my three younger brothers and my distance father. So possibly like you, I was the responsible one as well as later the unfavored one by my father.

Also like you found a great psychologist about 15 years ago. I had tried therapy a number of different times but this was the right match for me. She concentrated more on a plan of action to make me healthy versus listening to the litany of my life (although she did that too). Some of it is just so darn unfair as was what happened to you. I have often wondered why I had this particular life, although some of the family issues caused me to strike out on my own and find other things to make me happy.

I had a talk with my younger brother which probably just got me in more do-do. We are the only ones left interacting with Mom and generally he has been supportive of my interactions with Mom. Occasinally he has ranted about the will and trust which I have tried to explain over and over to him are two different documents. I think he finally gets it but he finally also gets that the will has us as co-executors and the trust does not. He didnt seem too happy about that but I believe that is actually the way Dad had it set up too. So now he might finally understand that the trust is in age order which means I am first up. Let's hope he doesnt start an initiative to get that changed too. I guess I could have lied about it but it is not my nature. (More drama)

Some good news is this brother did talk to the financial guy and since he said he liked the lawyer, now bro likes her too. Whatever!! Guess it had to come from another male. Ugh!!

I did go to dinner at my SIL's but didnt get there until later because of work. Mom was fine and I took her home. So maybe it has blown over. But still, as you recognize, this is all taking a toll on her and me too.

Thanks so much for listening and offering advice and support. It has really helped my state of mind right now. Sometimes I feel very alone in this.

I

Dianne,
Meant to comment on this yesterday. It says so much to me. That hyper alert feeling that something is wrong with me. I feel often like I am always on hyper alert and have a difficult time relaxing. I never thought about it being about searching for what is wrong with me, now or next? That is really brilliant.

How do you make that feeling go away? When your family has treated you for a good part of your life as if something is inherently wrong with you, something you can not change, like you are female, it is difficult to accept yourself.

Would love to hear how to get rid of that hyper alert feeling. Always looking for what is wrong with me and never resting. Ugh!! Of course the constant family reinforcement doesnt help.

I am sorry to interrupt on your conversation, but I've been reading for a few days and so much of it resonates with me.

Despite being educated, generous, intelligent, hard-working, somehow I've always had this feeling that something IS. WRONG. WITH. ME. How is it that I compare myself to my brother the complete psychopath and my other brothers who have psychopathic traits and don't feel that *I* measure up? I've thought about this long and hard. Despite his complete [censored]-ups, his criminal acts, his exploitations, his manipulations, his sexual deviances, and my almost nun-like background, I feel that something is wrong with me?

My mom didn't snipe at me growing up. Gosh, I'm so grateful for that. But what she did do was make excuses for him (and them). All of my brothers had terrible tempers and their angry outbursts would last for days at a time. My parents response was not to tell them to get their act together, but I'd be admonished to . . . not get them upset. The problem was . . . everything got them upset. They'd then over-react (for days) and then criticize my response to their incessant picking. Truthfully, it was hell. When called to some level of responsibility, their response was (and I quote) "You're not perfect, either."

So, I know I've always compared myself . . . not to them . . . but to perfection. Dear God, what an attainable expectations. That is why I almost always have this hyper alert feeling that something is wrong with me. I mean, who is ever perfect?

Hi Twin, you are in no way interrupting, that is what makes our community great is anyone can jump in;)

I have some thoughts that I have been thinking about since meeting with my new psychologist yesterday. Many of them are "small" things but had a great impact on this hyper alert status. I'll get my thoughts together and post them tomorrow. What I have been discovering is that it was a bunch of things that can appear quite small but when added up, well we know the results.

Di

Twin!
This is exactly what they do. I remember my ex Psycho telling me "You are just like me". Its actually them who are making excuses about their behavior. Its sad. But of course, if you are a normal, feeling human being, once you've heard the words too many times it stays in your head. If someone was telling you that you are stupid every day you'd believe it one day, even if you were Einstein. We are dependent on others, that's normal.
And with Psychopaths you always feel guilty, because you think your behavior affects them, like it does other people (because, more or less we affect those around us). But they are who they are because they have no feelings, not because you don't treat them right.

Another thing is that their behavior affects us. You look, observe, compare and so on, it has an impact on you. After my relationship with the Psychopath I didn't know what was right and what was wrong. I could feel that what was wrong was wrong but I couldn't reason with it. It was like my reason was messed up totally. Because your reason is dependent on the society, on the ones around you. Your gut isn't. It is the inner voice that tells you how to live. And its called conscience, and it is what the Psychopaths lack.
And some societies have their rules that clash with conscience, like for example - is death penalty alright? There are fights about all the time. Just because the reason and the society norms tell people it is necessary, and even if the person in question is indeed and no doubt a murderer, a psychopath, a wild crazy one who will kill anyone, even then there are still questions about the death penalty, just because people have conscience. And conscience will tell you not to kill no matter what.

You are probably comparing yourself and feeling inferior maybe, because of the society, a society that doesnt do anything about them, that doesnt even say 'it is wrong'. Nobody cares. So you question your inner gut telling you 'its not OK'. This is the horror we all have to go through.

I was struggling with it for a long time. Then I decided I cannot go on like this anymore and I chose conscience. Because I just couldnt be like they are. Sure I became more assertive, more looking-out for myself. But I act with my conscience, and I am not afraid to say it out loud if there is something wrong going on. I decided to trust my instinct for the rest of my life. It has not yet led me astray. On the contrary it has saved me from what definitely would have been very wrong decisions in my life.


Moreover, my out-loud talking about it all made incredibly many people around me talk to. And I am astonished how many of my friends have been or are in relationships with people who destroy their lives(i dont know if they are psychopaths but they sure share some traits). Some have broken the relationships, some still struggle with it, and some just start to realize. But they all come out of it and talk. It all starts with just a few words. And all these people need is to acknowledge that what they fear. And just hear that it ,indeed, is not OK to behave like this and that.

Because if we all told the truth about how we feel, if we all became assertive and we all supported each other in this I believe psychopaths have no chance with us.

So dont worry about these feelings, Twin, they are normal. The complex problem of psychopathy has only been researched for a few years now, but I believe we are on the right track. And I believe every single information we spread counts. Even if nobody wants to listen, even if they laugh at you, or even if they admit it and then in a second forget, it still makes a difference. Because if the people hear it often enough, and from many different people around them, they WILL start to wonder. I trust, it is our duty to at least say out loud what we know and feel is true. And if enough people know it, it becomes a social norm. And when it becomes a social norm, we are on our way to a better future.

The answer to solve psychopathy issue is not getting rid of psychopaths, but rather getting rid of our fears and helping those in need. Because no person I know, including me, could ever do it on their own. It is like a drug addiction. Sometimes you need to help those who dont want to be helped.

"The answer to solve psychopathy issue is not getting rid of psychopaths, but rather getting rid of our fears."

Wow. So true. I think that is the biggest challenge for me.

I also like what you said about choosing conscience. When my psychopathic brother was raising havoc while my mom was hospitalized a few years ago, trying to do the right thing and acting out of conscience were my sister and my guiding principles. In our family, people try to "manage" my psychopathic brother according to fear.

(They're afraid he'll get mad. They're afraid he'll run. They're afraid he'll emotionally collapse. They're afraid he'll do something impulsive.)

Quite honestly, we didn't have the emotional energy to worry about his reactions to things. We just tried to do the right thing for our mom. Sometimes you can do the right things and have things still blow up in your face. But at least we have the comfort of knowing we acted out of conscience.

That is so true! Any relationship with a psychopath is about fear. And the fear is almost abstract, I felt like someone set me to always stay alert with the Psychopath, I was scared and I dont even know what I was scared of. Maybe seeing what my gut was already telling me?

New Bird, although I have never done drugs, I always felt my relationship with my Psychopath was like a drug addiction, with him the dealer and me the hooked junkie.

When things were, briefly, going well it was like a euphoric bubble. The person I was besotted with and adored was (apparently) back and it was just the two of us with all my troubles and worries forgotten, then you really paid for that "high" with a long, black down.

Like drugs you had to work harder and harder to get that feeling back. AS with a dealer, the first few hits are free, to get you hooked, then you start paying and you need to use/buy/pay more and more (i.e. put up with more and more bad stuff) before you get to recapture the feeling.

Like an addiction you know it makes no sense but you still can't break away and even if you do your "dealer" comes and waves the drug under your nose, telling you how sweet it would feel, only for you to find you were cheated with an inferior product to what they let you have originally, diluted with rubbish to reduce the cost (effort) to them.

In my case the emotional see saw would trigger bipolar depression which would then exaggerate the emotional seesaw.

Truely finding the strength, with help from my friends for no contact is the only answer.

Dianne, Would be intereted on your take since the new therapist. I feel like we are on to something here with the big block between ourselves and freedom being the fear and the hyper alert feeling.

We cant change the psycopath. We know that. But how do we insulate ourselves from their craziness and the craziness they create in our other family members? How do we strengthen ourselves and give ourselve the peace we so richly deserve?

This is what I am striving for and trying to understand. How to change ME to not get so wrapped up in it and for god sakes not let it take over my whole life.

Hi Liz, since this is a very interesting topic I opened a new section to explore how words and actions can trigger a hyper alert feeling.

I will post tomorrow some of the things that I have discovered from talking to my new psychologist. Many of them seem "small" but have had a long lasting impact.

Hyper Alert Triggers

Feel like I am making some progress regarding insulating myself from all the drama. It is tough when it so severely effects my 85 year old mother. She can be so up and down about it all and at times is very distraught and hurt by the treatment from at least two of my brothers.

I must constantly remind myself to find my calm center. Also trying to not read the tea leaves of the future and get myself so wrapped up in what might happen next. It is tough though. Also trying to reconnect with things I enjoy like camping, in the summer, so I can nurture my peaceful side.

Hi Liz, glad you are making some progress. By taking care of yourself you will have the strength to help your mother. It must be horrific to see your mother going through this, your calm and strength is very important to help her.

Do any of them try and contact you? I would not give any of them any information even if you think they are someone you can trust, don't trust any of them or their wives. Money is a wicked deal in these things.



That is the key to life in general and particularly when we are in the eye of the storm. Some say one day at a time but really one breathe at a time is what I have found works the best.

Being at peace within yourself will help your mother more than she will probably ever express. I know she knows in her heart of hearts that you are her only support.

Di

I only have contact right now with my youngest brother who I also work with. Although he has been generally supportive, at times, he too questions the way I am handling things for my mother and even seems to think I am manipulating the will or other, at times.

So when it comes right down to it; Diane, you are right, I cant really tell anyone the details because it either makes the situation worse or I am blamed.

Unfortunately Mom shoots herself in the foot often. Yesterday the attorney wanted permission to write a letter to Psycho brother telling him exactly what we need about the businesses in order to close the estate. I went over all of it in excruciating detail with Mom last night.

Mom wanted to call Psyco brother first and let him know it was coming. I was okay with that but begged her to wait until we heard from the lawyer as to exactly what we needed from him. In fact I said several times to please not just pick up the phone and call him. Or course she did exactly that.

I dont know what frustrates and concerns me more? The fact she didnt seem to listen or understand our conversation of last night or the fact she has put herself in harms way and possibly only added another monkey wrench to the works? Fortunately he was not there and she left a message.

She told me this morning she had no recollection of me asking her to wait until we heard from the attorney. Ugh!!

Hi Liz, I am sorry to say this but your mom may be entering a stage that if the Psychopath brother gets onto it he might be able to declare her incompetent. I can't stress the urgency to get the paperwork in place as soon as humanly possible.



Like they say, loose lips sink ships, trust no one. Even when you think it is okay you have no idea what his contact is with your Psychopath brother. Mum is the word. You won't receive any validation from him and will only be highly possible transmitting information via him. I don't think he would say something on purpose but Psychopaths are very well skilled in getting information.

I posted some information about hyper alert, it is actually hyper vigilance.

Vent here, we are here for you.

Di

Liz - my situation with my brother and my mom is similar. She seems to think that he is both "ALL POWERFUL" and completely "fragile." She she caters to him and all his emotions -- not wanting him to be upset or sad or anything because all of those result in him being MAD.

Last year, I found myself feeling angry at my mom and even thinking that she was a lot like him. I've come to a more comfortable place about that. Realizing that she is a victim of him and not that she is colluding with him.

I've also noticed that my mom's memory gets very compromised the more stress she is under. Who know what will come in the next few years, but it has not been dementia type memory loss for her. She gets stressed and overwhelmed and then she honestly forgets things.

Diane and Twin, Thanks so much for the support and understanding. It really helps.

All this has such an overwhelmingly heavy mantle to my life. I try to take joy in what used to make me happy, but it is very hard at times. I feel on some level, all brothers hate me.

My brother who lives in California part time, is coming home in July. He has aligned himself with psycho, which has upset my mother more than anything and totally baffled the rest of us.

I feel like I am constantly dreading the return of psycho in the summer at our family camping place and that he will be reinvigorated with his new ally. The fear of returning to psycho rule weighs heavy on me all the time. I used to have a haven at the summer place and now feel I have no haven.

Also, with Mom's ever switching tacts, I feel I am constantly in fear of what she may do next.

Although Mom has some memory issues on a good day,it may be just the stress. Later she seemed to recognize that wasnt what we talked about regarding contacting Psyco. I think she gets overwhelmed and just wants to do something, anything to relieve her stress, even if it doesnt make sense or makes the situation worse.

Maybe for all of us, it is the tension before some resolution, as we are getting down to the wire to settle the estate.

I am considering returning to my shrink, as I feel I need a refresher on how to protect myself from evil and possibly harrassment. I wish I could just blow it off and not deal in dread, but often I do.

Thanks for listening.

Liz

I had not seen my therapist for about 6 months and am now back to seeing her. It is comforting to vent and to know that she's only experienced a few people who are as toxic as he. Sometimes I think that there is something wrong with me for not being able to "handle" him. When I talk to my therapist, I understand that it he would be hard for anyone to handle.

Yes, I believe it is time to go back to the therapist. Part of me resents having to pay out more of my hard earned cash to deal with the psycho. But reality is, I need the support. My head is churning too much with fears of what will happen this summer as more family may be around.

Hi Liz, I think you will find it money well worth the investment, there is no price for your own sanity.

Now would be a great time to practice being in the present moment, I think a calm state will also be good for your mother.

I would also like to say that even though your one brother is close to you I would keep out of any conversations about what is going on.

We are here for you and sorry for the future dread about the summer, this moment is all we have.

Di

Dianne,

Thanks for being here for me. And everyone else too.



That is such a wonderful comment. Thanks for sharing and reminding me

I am working on it for sure. Have been getting away on Fridays and camping out. That really helps.

Did not call the therapist this week, but not giving up on the idea. Was much lawyer and estate communicating this week which kept me from a lot of things.

Unfortunately Mom has continued to be very down. She is again talking about throwing money at the brothers who arent speaking to her. She would also give equal shares to myself and other brother.

Even though I could use the money, it turns my stomach to think this it what it might take to get the two to turn around. How disgusting is that? You are going to treat your mother better because she is giving you money. What level of care does that show for your mother? None! Yuck!!

I dont think I could ever look them in the eye again after that. What flipping right do you have? Ugh!! It just makes me ill to even think about it.

Thanks for letting me vent.

I will return to working on the calm, cool, center.

Hi Liz, it is indeed beyond disgusting about how they are operating.



They will not stop at that, imo, giving them money will not make them any better, if they get some money now they will just want more. Sick. Nothing short of everything will stop them. I am sorry for the pain it must cause you to watch them beat up your mother when she should be enjoying her life. What a couple of scumbags. I don't think anything short of everything will make them happy.

There are gifting laws with the IRS, no idea what the amount is but it used to be 10K per parent per gift to avoid paying taxes.

I do hope all of this will convince her to give you total charge of the estate or trust attorneys.

Sadly giving them some money now won't make them into decent caring people.

Di

I couldnt agree more, Dianne. I think Mom just wants to stop the downward spiral she seems to be in. I dont think it will be enough either. At least not for psycho brother. He had total control and a finger on the purse strings for 30 years. He feels it is his due. Nothing short of a return to the reign of terror will satisfy him. AND he will probably still hold a grudge that he was snubbed in the beginning.

I know I would feel ever more disgusted if the two that arent talking to her suddenly made an about face due to money.

Apparently you can now gift 13,000 a year without tax consequences.

I still havent called the therapist so need to get on it. The next couple of weeks are particularly hectic but I could at least make an appt for down the road.

The attorney continues to try to get the financials from psycho. I also advised her to talk to Mom. The attorney has been pushing me to ask her what she wants to do with the businesses long term. I have, but getting nowhere. Thought it might be good to come straight from the attorney although Mom seems to resent any suggestions she makes. I think that is because she doesnt want to deal with them.

Hi Liz, no amount of money will turn them around, imo.

If you mom doesn't want to talk to the attorneys do you have her power of attorney signed so you can act in her behalf? That would be critical to have in the event something happens to her health and at least you would be able to act on her behalf. I would make sure and get this as soon as possible.

I would try to convince your mom that she needs to officially turn this all over to you or your hands will be tied to act. The way they are pushing her and the pain she is in hard telling what it might do to her health at her age.

I think this might be your opportunity to get in control of things. Nothing but chaos will rein if it is left open. They could gang together and get your mom declared incompetent if this huge barn door isn't closed.

Di

Thanks for the support Dianne. I have been unsuccessful so far in getting Mom to change the power of attorney or her will from the four of us as co-executors to age order, which would put me first. I dont want to continue to pound on her like the others do, so left it alone. It is frustrating and depressing for me, realizing how all this could go on and on to the end of my life.

When the opportunity is there, I will continue to bring it up though.

Middle brother is coming back from the west coast in July. Certainly psycho is waiting for that as he feels he has his support. So dreading what July may be like.

Going to call therapist. Had a busy week and just couldnt handle one more log, even if it was for my own good.

How is everything with you, Dianne? Is your world calming down? Are you feeling more peace?

Hi Liz, I took my first break and left town to visit a dear friend. Came home tired but had a fabulous time being with people who were so supportive. I haven't left this place in years and it was the break I needed. The anger over the will is at a low roar and am still working on that one.

Did you get a chance to set up an appointment with your therapist? It is important to make time for yourself and get prepared for July.

I hope you are making progress with your mother.

Di

Hi Dianne,
So glad you had time away with supportive friends. That can mean so much. Maybe I should try that.

Made the therapy appointment for next Tuesday. Apparently just in the nick. The only brother that is speaking to me went ballistic yesteray and said I coerced Mom into changing the trust to age order which puts me first. Although I did suggest this to her as well as changing her will, I did not coerce her to make this change which I had previously explained to him over and over again. This new thought on his part came after an hours long discussion with the brother in California who I used to be close to but has taken huge umbrage with me helping Mom with the estate settling.

The attorney brought us the document in question when we were at probate in March. Mom did not ask her to put the trustees in age order and either did I. She just had it that way. I asked Mom if that was what she wanted to do and she said yes and signed it.

Now she may change her mind and change it to co-trustees, which means the agony will never stop for me. I have had no luck getting her to change her will and power of attorney, which I have tried to do. I suggested she even appoint one brother or the attorney. Anything so it wasnt all four of us. Nothing will ever get settled that way. I dont want to spend the rest of my life on this c**Psychopath.

So I am very sad today. The one brother who I work with and his family which I adore, now thinks I lied about this piece of paperwork and have been keeping it from him. It is so untrue. I have tried to explain it to him, (as I understand it), numerous times.

Ugh!! Sometimes it stinks being me.

Hi Liz,

I think it is time to stop talking to the brother you work with, clearly he is in the loop with the other brothers. I don't mean stop talking to him about "general topics" but would consider not trying to explain yourself, it is your mothers decision and clearly you didn't coerce her into it.

I would try to get your mother to understand that without a power of attorney should she need medical help it would be up in the wind how it would be handled. It is to protect her best interest, say she had to go into a home or need home care, I would bet your brothers would take the cheapest route, not the most compassionate route.

I am so glad I took a break from here, I choose to stay in a hotel when I visit people, know it can sound weird but that is the best way I like to travel. I only stayed 2 nights but was able to spend quality time.

I am glad you will be seeing your therapist, this is all so unfair and downright cruel to be ganged up on by the "money chasers" in your family, makes me feel so disgusted so can only imagine how it is affecting you.

Di

Dianne,
So glad that you got away and stayed in a hotel. Sounds like a wonderful self protective move. Often, I too, will chose the alone time and ability to choose my environment when visiting friends. That alone time can be so recharging and refreshing.

You are again, 100 per cent right. I need to stop trying to explain the details to the brother I work with. As I told him during his tirade, I have kept him 100 per cent in the loop and it has only bit me in the butt. He tells psycho brother I am on a power trip and now apparently has commisserated with the brother in California.

TG I have the therapist appt on Tuesday. Feeling very alone and dreading the time we will be forced to spend together this summer when California brother arrives. I need some coping skills and the T will be just the person to help.

Mom and I had a meeting with the financial guy yesterday. Among other things he told her is was not a good idea to have four co-executors or co-trustees. Mom seemed to get it but is still reluctant to change it. Do not know what that is about. I will keep up the pressure. She almost tried to make it about the money, but that is not it with me. It is about spending the next 20 or so years of my life in battle with these guys.

Thanks once again for listening, supporting and offering great advice. I will go camping tonight which always helps get me back to center.

Do you have anything planned for relaxation, Dianne?

Unfortunately, youngest brother visited Mom yesterday to continue his tirade about changing the trustee successor to all four of us. He still says I lied to him, but cant seem to come up with actually what I lied about.

I have told him several times, it was my understanding the trust was always in age order and not co-trustees. There is a part in the notes Dad had that looks like it may have been co at one time or at least discussed. The attorney told me that it was always age order not co. Either way the depth of my sadness, anger, fear etc, is unfathomable at this time.

I dont know what upsets me more? The bullying of my Mom for sure. Then there is bros insistence I lied, which is certainly relaying to the other brothers that dont need any excuse to say, "ah-ha!" Then there is the fear of what will happen if Mom does change to co.

The financial guy on Thursday strongly suggested not having more than one trustee. I did suggest to Mom last night that she appoint a neutral third party like an attorney or the financial guy. Unfortunately I think she will cave now that her final son support appears to be gone and go co. This is all so unfair to her.

What will co mean to me? Hard to say. More agony it appears. Agony that possibly goes on the rest of my life.

TG I am seeing the therapist on Tuesday.

Hi Liz, I am hoping beyond hope that your mother listens to the financial advise. My hope is that now that all of them are ganging up on her which is beyond evil that perhaps she might consider this more seriously.

I think the writing is on the wall that if there are all co's involved that they will all gang up and have the final say for her final well being, that is the biggest concern she should be thinking about.

I don't even know your brothers and I have smoke coming out of my ears with disgust over their treatment of her. She is too old for all of this. I don't know how you can fight to protect her if she doesn't keep things the same and puts her life literally in their hands.

Have you considered contacting an elder abuse organization? My sil did that when her crazy meth sister was abusing her father over money. They took things very seriously and might be something to consider, at this point I think they are very seriously abusing her. I know I would contact them to see what they can offer as far as advise. Your mother needs peace and so do you.

Did you get a chance to go camping? I am not a camper but it sounds like a good place for you to go and be at peace with nature.

Di

Hi Dianne,
Thanks again for the support. I have been really down since the latest blasting of both my Mother and myself. We have talked about it extensively. I have suggested she change to a third party but right now she says she is changing nothing.

It is beyond horrid. Especially the treatment of her. Thank you for the suggestion of contacting elder abuse. I have the therapist appt today so will run that by her too. I think if Elder Abuse took any action, it would just escalate the situation. Surely they would accuse me of coercing Mom or otherwise changing things to what they perceive as my benefit.

As I probably have often stated, I knew my brothers had hidden and not so well hidden, fear and disdain for women, but am just floored at the depth of it.

I am trying to find some peace for myself, like camping. I did go Friday, but unfortunately that is when my youngest brother blasted Mom. So I was trying to text him, "just the facts, ma'am" regarding what he thinks I lied about and his treatment of Mom. I am sure it went no where and somewhat ruined my night.

Mom's new theory is he was itching all along to go to the dark side and just needed an excuse to throw himself over. Might be so.

Hope your day goes well and is peaceful. Thanks again for listening.

Hi Liz, it sounds to me like your mom is getting the horrible picture about your brothers. It is good news that she isn't changing anything, that will leave you in charge. It sounds like your mother is being very wise and she is seeing them for what they are. I think that is why she doesn't want to change anything.

As far as I know elder abuse organizations operate in confidence. I know my sil got some great support from them.

Here is the link for their site Elder Abuse Organization

Although I don't represent them I think you might consider checking it out. Clearly from what you have said, they are committing elder abuse.

Personally I would stop trying to defend yourself to them, you have done nothing wrong.

Di

Dianne,
Thanks for the link. I didnt get that far with the therapist but will check it out.

Therapist agreed that I need to stop defending myself. She even asked me if I thought I could do that? Like what percent? I said 70/30.

I think my logical brain keeps trying to make sense of it and believes the only way is to continue to explain myself. I realize now that will get me nowhere.

It still hurts really bad that my youngest brother did this AND then relayed it all to my middle brother, who will then relay it to the oldest brother. So they all will be smiling like the Cheshire, thinking they finally got me.

Therapist reiterated that Mom and I would be fools to have a meeting with the brothers and no other professional there. Also that the lawyer should be more proactive about setting up Mom's will and power of attorney, health surrogate to one person, not four. We have a tentative meeting with him on Tuesday.

It is all a lot for Mom to digest but she seems to be trying. She often just wants to stop talking about something or otherwise close off her mind when it gets to be too much. And I guess I fear she will go to the dark side just to stop all this pressure on her. We talked about that a little bit.

I hope to go camping tomorrow and try to relax. Havent run into youngest brother at the office this week. Havent heard from his wife or the rest of his family either although Mom talked to the wife. Again it was about how hurt he was that I lied. Hurt??. Yeah, right!

Hi, sorry to see all your brothers have joined forces, sadly that is how it works when you have a Psychopath in the mix.

Is there a way for the attorneys to just bring the forms to sign when you meet with them? At least have them bring the power of attorney for your moms health rights.

I am glad you have a great therapist, worth their weight in gold when they are that good. I agree it would be horrible to think a meeting with that gang alone with just you and her. Not sure what any meeting would bring as far as outcome, they have made their ideas and cruelty very well known.

Hope you have fun camping, personally I would block your brothers and at a minimum be saving their horrible text messages.

It is sad and hard to process how evil they are being. I am glad your mom is opening up, maybe this will help her to know she needs to have you in charge particularly over her health matters. The way they are all acting they should all be tossed out of the will.

Have some fun and try to relax.

Di

It is very hard to accept how evil and self serving they are. I hate that hyper vigilant state I feel I have become, waiting for their next bizarre act. Which happened today, of course.

Psycho finally went over to Mom's. I dont think she has seen him since Easter. He brought his computer, plugged it in and proceeded to read a 10+ page tirade about how he has never done anything wrong and Mom is being a dictator and conniving with me. It was delusional and TG, Mom could see it for that.

Then younger brother calls up and runs her through the mill for an hour. I was there for that. I am beyond disgusted by all of it, especialy younger brother's behavior. Apparently he encouraged psycho to make some contact with Mom. He was quickly back peddling though when he found out how it went.

As much as it disgusts me, it also hurts, that now they have all joined forces against me and Mom. She said the level of hatred towards me is unbelievable. She seems genuinely shocked by the it. Me too.

Unfortunately it still upsets me. I am so tired of it all at times. Hoping the lawyer has some answers.

I will have some communication with the lawyer before our meeting if it actually happens. Still waiting for his final ok.

On a positive note, had a lovely night camping. It was beautiful and peaceful. I knocked off early from work and had additional time to just enjoy nature and relax. Unfortunately it all went to H today.

I must keep my spirts up though and not over think everything. It is making me nuts.

Thanks for listening. Do you have some relaxation and fun planned this weekend.

Hi Liz, I guess the proof is clear and it seems like your mom is moving along in her thought process. Maybe she will dis inherit them based on what they were doing, wouldn't that be great to just dump them. It is beyond sick that they are abusing her so much, what a pack of creeps and total idiots. No one should ever speak to their parent in such a vile way. In a way it is good they are showing their true colors and maybe she will decide to just axe them from the estate over all this abuse.

If she moves in that direction make sure there is a no contest clause in the will. I hope the attorneys get busy because your mom needs you now more than ever to protect her should something happen. I would hate to even imagine what they would do if she was unable to care for herself.

I am glad you enjoyed your camping trip, spent the weekend re doing my bedroom and kitchen and planning a trip to see George Benson in concert first of August, will be in Ohio so will be hot as heck but I got a front row seat .

Your mom is lucky she has you to protect her from them.

Di

Dianne, Would you be going to the Jazz Festival to see George Benson? A stone's throw away from here. So glad to hear that you had a relaxing weekend and also were able to spend time changing your living space. Change in space, change is life, right?

Lawyer meeting went okay. He talked to Mom about changing her executor(s), health surrogate and power of attorney. He asked me to leave the room while they talked about it. That was fine with me. Later she discussed with me having myself and the financial advisor from the bank in either the one or two position. She is to call the lawyer back in a week.

Psyco Brother sent another long diatribe to the lawyer in response to their request for information. Naturally a skewering of me in there. Lawyer said he didnt like the letter, but was encouraged he was getting some response.

Bad news is my younger brother was right about the co-trustees of the trust. Although it never made it to the final document, there does seem to be intent on my father's part to make it that way. I had asked both lawyers repeatedly if it was ever supposed to be co and they both denied. When I supplied the copy of the letter that young bro was pounding on, lawyer was like, "Oh well, guess it was, but now it is changed." Well you know that will be a huge issue with all the brothers and fuel more, "YOU LIED" talk. Not sure exactly how that will be handled, but lawyer better protect my butt. Mom did not want me to say anything to any of the brothers about this at this time. Will have to review that option for awhile

Other than that, Mom liked him because he was taking a hard line about the businessess. He suggested getting appraisals of the buildings and equipment and then offering them for sale to the family first and general public if no one is interested. I like the idea of some finality to those issues, although all of that will take time.

Mom seemed to take it all okay. She was pretty wiped out by the end of the day but seemed to recover later. I went to a meeting I had at 5 and then went back to her house for dinner.

So some good and bad news I guess. Had to reschedule the therapist because there were too many other things going on yesterday. Looks like an appt in a couple of weeks.

Hi Liz,

I watch the Suze Orman show, she has some great advise. She says to never have a banker in charge of your trusts. They can invest the money willey nilley and not a good idea. I would go for the lawyers, not that they are perfect. If you go with lawyers you would still have to be on them. However that said if it is a community bank that your family has a long relationship with then I would probably trust them. I for sure wouldn't trust one of the huge national bankers.



Bingo, that must be a relief. I am quite sure your father may have had that intent but don't you think he would be appalled to see how they are treating your mother, I get the idea he wouldn't be too happy.

It sounds like you have made some great progress. I think you mom is going to do the right thing to protect you so you can protect her.

Di

Dianne,

And thank you for encouraging me to get Mom to this point. It really helped.

It is not good news to me that the lawyers apparently missed Dad's intent to have us all as co-trustees of the trust. Although that would be a nightmare. This will just prove to my brothers that they were right. Mom okayed me to talk to the lawyer about this. Havent yet, but he needs to stick up for me and admit they screwed that up. Still Mom signed the amendment and is not sorry.

She likes the bank guy a lot. He had been handling their investments for awhile. Right now she is talking about putting me in the first position and he in the second. I wonder if I should encourage her to change the trust positions too? A little mixed on that, but if I died young it would protect the rest of the family from psycho brother. (Yeah, why do I care?)

Unfortunately I had to go to the office today and my youngest brother, was the only one there. He dragged me down the whole path. "I lied to him. I'm on a power trip, Mom is clueless". "I dont want to involve psycho brother in any way." Well right on that one. On and on. I tried to institute the new policy of not defending myself. I probably did it about 50% of the time. It was hard as he threw nastier and nastier accusations and threats.

I did stay calm and repeat over and over again that I didnt think there was anything I could say that would change his mind, so I was giving up on defending myself. Naturally he didnt like that either.

I was actually having a pretty good day today. I felt like my old self; healthy and peaceful; enjoying the beauty of the world around me. Will try not to let it ruin the rest of my day. Thanks for listening.

Hi Liz, personally I would stop completely from defending yourself to them. I would be building up a good relationship with the lawyers, not them. Sure, they didn't have the right paperwork but they did have the right thing done.

I guess it is age but I have learned the hard way that you can't defend the indefensible. So what if that was your fathers "intent", he left your Mom in charge and that is all that matters. They will never accept any kind of explanation and you can do that until you are blue in the face but they are digging their own ditch so let them keep digging. Like they say when someone is digging their own ditch of evil, don't take the shovel away from them, just back away.

I would just try to stop defending yourself, you have done nothing wrong. They are not rationale and why should you allow yourself to be their punching bag?

All of that takes your focus away from caring for your Mom, don't let them rattle you, I know it is easier said than done but you have come so far with your Mom.

Di

You are so right, Dianne and I am going to work much harder at not defending myself. Unfortunately I work with this clown. And I guess he could "fire" me if he wanted, even though I am an independent contractor. As you said, there is no defending the indefensible.

Unfortunately younger Bro decided to take it out on Mom today and was over there beating on her for an hour about the same stuff. There is no way to dissuade him. He only left when I showed up. And begrudingly at that. Wanted to know why I just didnt go in the house when I saw his car there like he does when I am there? What???

Although she says she can take it, it rattled her and we were unable to do much of any other business today. Had wanted to talk to her again about the power of attorney, health surrogate etc, but she was too shook up. Kept forgetting what the lawyer talked to her about changing.

I am close to doing something about this abuse. I told Mom that is what it is. Her answer? Well, younger brother doesnt look at it that way. Geez!! Too bad. I am going to call the lawyer tomorrow and see if he will field questions from younger bro to take the heat off Mom and if he has other suggestions.

Wise move, ask the attorney to give you some advise about taking over. Also I would suggest contacting the elder abuse group for some input from them.

Jeez, they turn my stomach so can only imagine what it is doing to you. They have way crossed the line and from what you have said it screams elder abuse.

Di

The behavior is unbelievable. Especially because they think it is okay. Where do you pick up that kind of sickness? Oh yeah, I know where.

My Dad really wasnt a rager like my younger brother is. He was more of a quiet control freak like oldest brother. It still just floors me that they think this is okay.

The lawyer was great. He said he has been hired by your mother to settle your father's estate. Attempts to control, second guess, question and dictate to my mother are not helping. He told me to tell her to have them call him. Now if she will just do it.

She has done nothing towards changing her POA etc since talking to him on Tuesday. That is part of my stress and frustration. She will not act on his suggestions.

Even though he is on the other side of the country, my brother has managed to elicit sympathy from my mother. Earlier this year he moved from the midwest to a western mountainous state. He knows no one there. He didn't have a plan other than to get there via the bus. He did have the SSDI that my sister, my friend, and I helped him to secure, as well as medicare for his primary healthcare needs. He doesn't own a car and as far as I can tell he has no intention of getting one nor the resources to do so because he has no money despite a sizable disability settlement. Where did it go? No one knows really except that he went on 3 trips in the last 18 months. His is now crying poor because he has no money and no food stamps. Why? "They" didn't turn off his food stamps in his home state.

When I asked my mom about why he chose the state he moved to, she became very tearful and said, "He doesn't feel welcome here because of you and your sister." (huh?) I tried to not be mad and I was mostly just crying. I told her that it was hurtful that she said it like that because my sister and I had done more for him than anyone (other than her) and because we wouldn't accept his verbal tirades *he* didn't feel welcome. I also tried to just explain to her that I knew I couldn't talk to her about him, because she can't admit that he does anything wrong.

It will never change. I accept that he will never change which is why I can't have him in my life in even the least bit. What hurts me is that she can't accept that. I feel like she is trying to strong arm me into reconnecting, eventually accepting, and eventually enabling him. I can't do it. I won't do it.

Today, we got the closest we've ever been to my mom admitting that "he's not right." My mom established a special needs trust that would be executed upon her death for the benefit of my psychopath brother. She had to establish this so he doesn't run through any small inheritance and make himself ineligible for gov't benefits. It wasn't quite there, but it was the most close we've gotten to her admitting that he needs/requires extra help. Previously, he needed/required extra help but we weren't allowed to admit that he needed the help because something was wrong with him. The over-riding reason was his cancer, but the unspoken reason was his psychiatric issues.

Tonight, I am really sad and really burnt out. I am AGAIN realizing that by adjusting to, accommodating to, catering to our psychopathic brother and my other brothers (with varying degrees of mental illness and substance abuse) that I was raised to put my needs second (at best) if not ignore my needs altogether. I can't tell you the kind of trouble that this has created in my marriage and my relationships.

I've hardly ever observed a conflict resolved without a physical altercation happening. I've experienced the smallest amount of benign feedback escalated into arguments that raged on for days. From this, I've developed this hesitancy to articulate my needs, to object when I was maltreated, etc. I'm trying to change, but I am sick of this.

I'm sorry you are feeling bad.

It sounds as if you have maybe become accustomed to doing this as a form of self defence/self protection through appeasement and trying to defuse rather than escalate the situation?

Unless you are dealing with reasonable people, who are prepared to see and recognise the other side, that is sometimes the only way to cope with it?

Unfortunately not every bully does respect those who stand up to them, some just get enraged or take it as a challenge to crush that resistance.

It may be that you need to resolve it by changing who you are interacting with, rather than trying to change your interaction style with those who have brought this about?

Thank you for responding. I'm just worn out.

Hi Twin, although I have never walked in your shoes, I feel a deep feeling of empathy for your pain. I am so very sorry for what is going on, it has to be the worst thing a person could imagine.

Di

I'm new to this, not sure if Liz123 will get the message.

Your story is amazingly similar to mine. I could not believe what you wrote. It sounded almost exactly like mine. If you care to hear my thoughts or some advice, please respond. I think I could help you deal with this.


Summer.

I'm sorry to hear that.

It is so very much more difficult to get to grips with anything when your energy has been totally drained.

My brother is a psychopath. Even if the doctor has never taken a look at him, he is.

I have stopped contacting him. I'm afraid of him, yet feel like a bad person for not going and seeing his kids. I feel sorry for his kids.

here's what makes think he is Psychopath. I find it easier to make a brief list about him.

- physical violence, particularly towards women
- domestic violence charges
- rape accusation/ sexually abusive behavior
- excessive pleasure seeking/ reckless behavior: severe alcoholism/ multiple sex partners/ dui
- excessive lying. That article about the speech patterns of Psychopaths sounds like him. We always know he is lying when he starts a sentence with "um." seems able to explain his way out of the ugliest things
- organized criminal activity. major fraud. grand larceny. being wanted on a federal level
- having kids, with whatever flavour of the month relationship he has. With about the amount of foreplanning as a spur of the moment decision to buy a puppy.
- kids seem like a pawn for him to get money etc etc.


He seems like a nice guy. He is really engaging, but I have always had to be of two minds around him.

- once he said he owned this apartment and that he would pay the taxes, and maintenance fees so I could live there rent free while he moved out of the country. knowing the offer was too good to be true I turned him down. it turned out he did not own the apartment- he owed 1000's on backrent, and was just looking for someone to unload on.
-he used to have a thing for getting girls to get apartments with him; he'd get them to come up with first and last. Then he'd take the money and run. This happened frequently when I was younger.

I feel bad saying this. A part of me still sees my brother when he seemed kinder, and like he had more of a conscious. But now I fear him. I won't even see him.