I don't agree with the ignoring, I think you are right, some eye contact etc. is important to let the man know it is okay to approach. It is like in the old days if you go to a dance with other singles even if the ugliest guy in the room asks you to dance, you dance because otherwise the nice guys will be watching and see you are someone who rejects others.

Do you have any friends with dogs that you can borrow? I used to have to fight people off, lol when I would sit for coffee with my kids. It makes you much more approachable.

Now how to fend of the Psychopath's. The number one thing that people have all said over the years is they didn't pay attention to the first red flags, just got out those paint brushes and got busy painting them white;)

Like I said before, if we keep our minds in a constant whirl with constant noise, phones, radio or whatever it is much harder to hear that inner voice. That inner voice is what has the ability to keep us safe. If we spend some of our time in silence we can reflect and see if that voice is telling us this person is not right for us or something is off. The real key is to not become so defensive that you are on the alert like an FBI agent.

They say to come up with a short list of things that are unacceptable and don't expand the list and give the person a try if they don't exhibit any of the things on your list.

For example, I am not interested in dating alcoholics/heavy drinkers or drug users. I am also very much not interested in someone who finds humor in belittling others. Also,people who are rude to wait staff or service personnel and have an air of superiority. And the list goes on, try to make a list of around 10 key things

How did your X act when you were out to eat?

I have a question, what were some of the things that she did in the beginning that you brushed aside?

Di

She treated wait staff well. She always had a second job as a waitress. She LOVED being a waitress, probably because of all the mini-games she constantly got to play. However, she tended toward being inappropriate otherwise. I always thought it was because she wasn't raised well - her mom is a piece of work and her dad, having sired a family of Psychopaths, stayed away as much as he could. A story for another time - but now I realize it's the personality disorder. It seemed like she never could grasp basic human decency, tact, and good manners. Mouthed off often and when we went out with others often talked way too much too soon about very personal things, like her messed up family, with people I regarded as basically strangers. She did that often; meet someone, and oh, it's my best friend. And she would bff bomb them lol.

Same behavior I mentioned above. She acted similarly around my friends - said and did inappropriate things, her behavior tended to irk them. My first instinct about her was probably the right one; I disliked her. Thought she was an ass. She showed up at a friend's party. I saw her and her buddy get invited earlier that week when we were visiting him at work. The friend didn't come - I found out later they had a big falling out over some guy she stole from the girl. She did not have any friends. A red flag I brushed aside. No childhood friends. No current friends longer than maybe a month at the time. Anyways, she shows up alone and goes and stands in the corner. Feeling bad I went and introduced myself and my crew. I was pretty popular on campus and knew a lot of people, probably one reason she targeted me. Anyhow she acted like a jerk so I wrote her off. Enough of a jerk that I wanted nothing to do with her. One of my buddies thought she was cute and even asked if I'd mind if he hit on her. I told him go ahead. Later, while we were hanging out, she blurted that she knew I totally wanted her and wanted to get in her pants. I didn't even have to say anything, my friends corrected her. I avoided her after that.

But she kept showing up at my house. With me and my two roommates being seniors, we were having people come in to see the house for rent. She actually ended up living in the roommate I mentioned's room. Even had the same bed because my friend bought a new one after college and let her keep that one, which she of course accepted. First time I saw her again she gave me a hug and I just glared at her and went upstairs. She is very good at the pity play and she was attractive when she wanted to be. She played that whole "if only I had a chance" card on me. The red flag here should've been that everyone else around, trying to move in or on their way out, went to the local university. She did not. She had taken one community college class and failed it. She just worked nearby, two jobs as usual. One as a waitress, of course. My mom likes to say she was there for a degree, all right - her M.R.S. degree to get someone to marry her and take her to the city. She didn't have a car, rode a bike everywhere. No one would give her a ride (because no one there liked her. Big surprise.)

Thankfully I made her get herself to the city. Looking back on it she lived in a house of college men who were stoners for two years. Bet she had fun screwing them behind my back.

Well, I grew out a bit of this, I'm a little more open since I've grown out of my teens but still it's hard for me to talk to someone I'm attracted to and not be super self-aware. But you're spot on with the Psychopaths and narcissists - probably that's how I ended up with this guy, I was totally into him but I knew he had a GF so I didn't do anything and tried to stay away. He figured out I'm in love with him and started his game:/.

Yeah, my Psychopath had always had a super nasty comment about people, especially overweight or women. He used to call every girl who was even slightly interested in him (or I guess in some instances not at all except in his mind) sluts or whores. It always made me angry since I knew he slept with a lot of women before me and I always told him "you're the biggest slut of them all" but he only brushed it off with a smirk.


Yeah, a big read flag ignored. It was the same in my case - my friends did not have a good opinion about the guy from the get go - a friend told me exactly "this guy is a Psychopath" and I ignored it. I can just beat myself over the head for being so stupid. I knew everything, he even admitted it himself sort of but I was making excuses for him he didn't even bother to invent. It must have been funny for him - no effort.
But my Psychopath was quite liked . Or at least appeared to be - now I've realised that most of the people he hung out with stopped contacting him after a very brief time. Almost all his friendships are in fact casual acquaintances who don't know him well except for two guys - one knows he's full of [censored] but he's also a good guy and is probably making the same excuses I did for the Psychopath and the other I don't know well but they're friends for years so apparently some Psychopaths have real friends.
I remember thinking in the beginning that he was not my sort of a person and if I was not so madly attracted to him I'd probably dislike him a lot.

I find this confusing. My ex-spath had to work pretty hard to change my mind about her. I usually dated...well, like, vapid models and stuff. I had a few really pretty girls who weren't like that. But she was probably the least physically attractive woman I'm been involved with. The personality she showed me (being tailor made for me, and all) made me happily look beyond the physical. I had a friend with benefits at the time who was much cuter than the spath and we got along better. We are actually still friends even though we are thousands of miles apart and talk regularly. I wanted to date the FWB, and I told her this, but she liked it with no strings attached and I wanted a girlfriend. A vulnerability the spath played to, and really the key in why I chose the spath over the other woman. This was something the spath held a grudge about. I am beginning to see all her little grudges and "must get evens" that would have been the basis of her games and goal setting. But she convinced me I'd misunderstood our first interaction and on a superficial level people liked her so I eventually bought it. Attractive or not, if I dislike a woman's personality or the way she treats me, or if she is a cheater who clearly pursues other men while in a relationship, I wouldn't give her the time of day no matter how attracted to her I was. I think the dynamic must be different for women. When I initially thought my spath was not my sort of person, I mean, that was it. She was out. I disliked her and made sure she knew it. I cannot be attracted to someone I dislike. Not the first time I've heard a woman say something like what you did, though. "Oh he's such a jerk." Then they swoon and will date the jerk. Knowing he's a jerk. Does not compute lol.

Hi Darth, I don't know about in general but specifically to women who date or marry Psychopath's I have heard from members who posted here time and time again how they were with a type that wasn't their usual. Meaning he was quite unattractive in many, many ways. I think with Psychopath's they have some magnetic charm that gets people to overlook their bad looks and bad habits.

It sounds like your x had some very different looks and habits from women you were normally attracted to. I guess the big question is based she seemed to rub people the wrong way and wasn't that attractive, what lured you in? It has to be more than she kept after you as marriage is a huge step. Did she challenge you in anyway to change her?

Di

Pity play - she told me her sob story and I felt sorry for her. The protective side came out, I guess. And I've got a hero complex, wanted to save her. She played that like a harp from Hell. She was cute enough when she put some effort into her appearance. This was something she rarely did but she was doing it then. I relaxed my standards a little because I'd become convinced she was simply raised poorly and was misunderstood. She eagerly and regularly expressed a desire to become more than what she was and wanted me to show her how to get there since her parents were just not with it. Combined with the other girl not wanting to settle down, that is how she got me to commit. She kept that act up for years. Until we got married. I'd seen flashes of the real her but she was always quick to cover them up or make them seem like blips on the radar. Normal. But after nuptials things quickly began to go seriously downhill, mostly because she was rarely around. It was only after we broke up that I was able to make sense of everything by researching and the puzzle pieces began to fit, even little things I'd noticed but ignored from before we got married. All part of her big plan to get me to marry her for whatever reasons she had.

That doesn't have to be the case - mine was super attractive to me and 100% my type. It's "only" his personality that would turn me away from him as a person but I ignored it happily because I was so much into him. But I knew that if it was not for me being interested in him in a sexual way we would never be friends and likely bitter enemies since guys like that usually get under my skin and I give them tough time.


Exactly - the most characteristic thing about a Psychopath. If the person whom you barely know tells you his/her sad story full of trauma and shame and makes you believe that you're the only or one of few trusted people who knows about that - it's bs and you should run. There may be some people who are super open about stuff like that but then they will not make you feel special because they tell you that. Later I learned that he told the story to pretty much everyone. I remember being confused why he feels he needs to tell that to me and why am I so special and he didn't really give me an answer that made sense but again - I happily ignored it. He basically told me that on the second real conversation we had together, on the first one he only hinted this and that and made me interested and curious. Well played I must give him that.

Good article on dating. Even warns about Psychopaths at the end.

http://www.eharmony.com/blog/2013/07/29/...ks#.UgtxP21f-eY

I met either another one or maybe a sex addict on the interwebs last week. Actually met more than one but they're pretty obvious after previous experience. Needless to say I simply become boring and halt the game and they go on to the next one. Thanks to the forums or I might still be falling for those ruses.

:-)

Oh and found another good one:

http://www.eharmony.com/dating-advice/da...ks#.UgtxTG1f-eY

Thanks Darth, great articles. It really boils down to boundaries that is the number one reason really nice people get caught up with the wrong person. We have to accept that we should focus on change for ourselves first and not rescuing others. Don't mean to sound harsh but I am sure you get the jest.

What I found very, very interesting were the negative comments people were making about these articles. I don't know if they are all eharmony clients, but boy they seem to have a hard time seeing that these suggestions make any sense.

Di

They're uninitiated, Di. I hope it doesn't happen but they may find out the hard way. Foud another good one on female psychopaths that listed traits I'd forgotten, like how they can play servant and really pour on the "I'm here for you" role.

http://signsofapsychopath.com/female-psychopaths/

I found the two lists very accurate aside of the children and constant togetherness. Mine is not yet thirty but she was very like what the article says. Very good warning signs.