Hi Mark

I was just going thru your posts starting with this one
"The worst part of it, or one of the worst parts is that when a normal relationship breaks up, you still have your fond memories of the good times. When the P relationship breaks up all you have left if a pack of lies. The hard part is pulling down all the memories and the realization that it was all false and the person that you cared for wasn't real." It still feels so freaky when someone else can know and describe the P experience exactly as it was for me. So I read some more of your posts and see that you have given some good advice. I noted your support for the raising awareness thread and wonder if you fell like taking up some of the research points mentioned on Ali's post?

best of luck

Recovery

I was trying to recall which one of Ali's posts that you were refering to. Can you point me in the right direction. Sometimes I find the message structure of this board confusing - maybe it's because the threads go on for such a long time and cover a range of topics - not that I am complaining - just confused LOL


Mark

Hi Mark,

If you click on a posters name you can select to view all of the posts that have been posted by that person.

Di

Thanks for the tip

I will check out the posts


Mark

Mark

I just had a look and took a while to find the posts I was speaking about so I have copied them and pasted it below as I think they are worth highlighting.
Recovery




Posted by Ali
AM
Re: Children's Rights [re: Ali] Reply




Hi Everyone

Just a quick update as to what's going on with the lobby group.

We've set some objectives - I'll include them at the end of this post.

We're still looking for a name for the group - anyone out there have any suggestions?

Our next task is to identify the areas we want researched and produce a list of topics. We're hoping that maybe some of you who don't have time to actually join the group might volunteer to help with some of the research - we need all the help we can get.

Since we all have other commitments and can't always guarantee to put aside time for this, we've decided to do it this way: We will create a 'workpile' of things to do/topics to research; whenever anyone has the time, they can take a task off the workpile. When they've finished it, they will 'put it back' as completed, and if they have time, take another task from the pile. That way if someone ends up busy and not able to put much time in at any stage, the work will keep chugging along regardless. So if any of you want to help with research, contact Di who can let you choose a task. If you find out halfway through that you don't have the time, just put it back on the pile - nothing has been lost. Hopefully no-one need then feel pressured.

Anyway, here are our objectives:

Summarised Objectives:
======================

1. To document and raise awareness of the negative impact of psychopaths on the welfare of children, including the dangers of mental, physical and sexual abuse.

2. To lobby for positive action to address this problem

Detailed Objectives
===================

1. To document and raise awareness of the negative impact of psychopaths on the welfare of children, including the dangers of mental, physical and sexual abuse. Documentation to be produced in the following areas:
a) The characteristics of the psychopath and the damage he or she can inflict on close associates

b) The effect of the psychopathic parent or carer on the child including cases of emotional, physical and sexual abuse

c) The effect of the psychopathic parent on the remaining parent or other carer

d) The ability of the psychopath to manipulate the system for his/her own ends, as well as the psychopath’s tactics to remove the credibility of the other parent or carer

e) Quantify in financial terms the impact to society of allowing psychopaths to repeatedly use the legal and social services to achieve their own ends



2. To lobby for positive action to address this problem, including:

a) Lobbying governments and other organisations to provide funds to be allocated for research by experts, so that factual reports and guidelines on recognising and dealing with the psychopathic parent or carer are made available to legal and social services personnel

b) Lobby for training to be provided for all decision-makers in the areas of child custody and visiting rights

c) Lobby for legislation to make it possible to prevent unsupervised access to children by psychopaths

d) Lobby for legislation to ensure compulsory screening of professional child carers for psychopathic personality disorder

e) Lobby for proper diagnostic procedures to be researched and laid down for use by qualified personnel to assess cases where a parent or carer is suspected to be a psychopath, and for proper procedures for appeal and reassessment of such a diagnosis, so that the legislation in points c) and d) cannot be used indiscriminately.



Ali
Ali's second post

This is just a quick update on the lobby group. We now have a name - Parents Against Psychopath Abuse (abreviated to P.A.P.A), a mission statement:

"To raise global awareness and educate the public at large to the inherent dangers associated with the psychopathic personality disorder, and to promote the development of measures within the social and legal systems towards prevention, protection and victim support, including special provisions and safeguards where children and child carers may be affected."

and a policy statement:

"We will at all times use peaceful and legal means to achieve our objectives, and will never use any form of harrassment of individuals or organisations. We will dissociate ourselves immediately from anyone who does not abide by this code of conduct."

We're busy working on a brochure-style write-up which will give details to back up our objectives and explain what we are lobbying for. It's going slowly, as we're all pretty busy, but we'll get there in the end! Any offers of help would be HUGELY appreciated.

Once that's done, we intend to start raising awareness, creating liaisons with organisations whose objectives are in line with ours, and lobbying appropriate organisations.

Will keep posting updates as things start moving

I am new to this forum and I could not help but reply to your posting. It was as if reading my own story, and I feel for and with you. I am in very much the same situation as you are/were. I met my husband over 7 years ago and we have been married for 4 years. He too is my soul mate. Our life together started out as if in a fairy tale - although the dream was swept out from under me in short order.

Six months after we were married, we gained custody of his 2 children, and I can empathize on the struggles dealing with a P ex-wife and a P step-daughter. I immediately started putting myself through numerous hours of counseling once I realized that something was not right and to try to help myself in dealing with the issues. It has helped me somewhat, but having to live with the constant lies and deceit is extremely hard to do. What has been the biggest challenge was that my husband would or could not recognize that there was a problem, so for many years I was always the one with the "problem".

I too was at the point of giving up and ending the marriage, but somehow I got through that. I hate to admit it, but I ended up in such a deep depresssion that I was suicidal - but I overcame that too. I guess I found somewhere deep inside me that although not everyone could see what I could see, that maybe, just someday, they would. It's now 4 years later and it appears - whether fortunate or unfortunate - that my husband has just woken up to the fact that the youngest is indeed a habitual liar and a P - exactly like her natural mother is. She's so like her mother even down to the drugs and alcohol. Now we're faced with being at our wits end in trying out what to do next and how to survive for the next 11 months until she is 18, and hope that we can minimize our legal risks with her until that time. I know that my attempts to be a good "replacement" mom (since the Ex is near non-existent) as well as a real mom to these 2 children hasn't been too much in vain since the eldest one appears to be very responsible and is being a productive member of society as well as putting herself through college.

All I can say is that if you can keep yourself focused, you will be able to survive. I understand it's not easy, and I almost didnt make it myself -- but at least I'm here now today writing this note to you.

Hi LostInMI, welcome to the forum. It must be a heart wrenching experience to have to face the cold hard facts that a child is a Psychopath. It is very kind of you to offer your story and encouragement to others.

One observation I have made from the parents who have come forward is the shattering experience makes it unbearable to even discuss. As a matter of fact, when I first started the forum years ago it was mainly for resources about Psychopaths and then victims started showing up. The original victims were parents of Psychopaths who had endured so much pain.

Your sharing is very valuable to those parents out there who come and read and aren't able to express themselves by posting.

May I ask, how do you plan to proceed once your step child turns 18? I guess what I am asking is there an arrangment for the child/adult to leave the house? Go to school?

Di

Thank you for the warm welcome. It is very helpful to see that I'm not the only one out there with these issues. Not that I didn't seriously think that I was, but it's difficult to find a forum where people can "relate" to what I've encountered.

We are not sure about the plans when she turns 18. We haven't seriously talked about making her leave the house, but as things has proven in the past, she might just make that decision for us since she is unhappy living with us. She's still very much tied to her natural mother, and actually to the point where she/they are enablers for each other. She does talk about college, which we encourage, but unfortunately even though she is extremely intelligent, she doesn't have the motivation to follow through. We realize that her only intent for college is for the party - which we won't financially support - but if she is serious on going, our emotional support is there. Since things change and incidents arise on the spur of the moment with her, we can't count on any plans or talk of today becoming a reality in the future ... so we just wing it as we go forward.

I have a very dear friend who's son was a P and who put them through an emotional, legal and financial he**, and surprisingly in his mid 20's he had an awakening, turned his life around, and is now working with other delinquent youths in their recoveries. In my case, we hope that there will be some similar awakening in her in the near future ... but we're not counting on it.

I'm sure as things progress, and now that I have found this forum, that I'll be posting inquiries, comments and/or solicit for help as we deal with this situation. I thank you for having such a resource available - it is so very refreshing to finally have an outlet where people really understand.

THANKS!

Hi LostinMI

I was reading your story and wondered how you keep sane through it all. The best thing about marrying a P is being able to divorce them, the worst thing is that the P will always be father to my child. It must be so hard to have to cope with a P child. I hope you, like SassyFras, keep strong.

I was curious at the "recovery" of your friend's son since it is well documented that P's don't change. Maybe the P diagnosis was a bit too strong and he was just a wild child - could yours be the same? Has there been a real diagnosis?

I hope you keep posting and get some help from the site.

best of luck

Recovery

Hi - You sound as if you are in the same place I was years ago. Now my step-son is 40 years old and I've had many horrible years with this boy I had always been so giving and fair to him. The very same thing you are experiencing. The Mother was not interested in him until he seemed to fit into our new family well when he was 8. We put a tap on our phone because he thought he was selling drugs out of our home when he 16 or 17. The tap was illegal but we were desperate to get a handle on his behavior and also not lose our family home. We got the suprise of our life when we found he was not doing his business at home BUT his mother was calling our two other teen children and enticing them to come to parties where there was every type of drug spread out on the table, and other illegal things. When we objected and were reeling from the shock the ex wife went to my husbands parents and said we were making up things about her and causing her trouble. We had the tapes but knowing that we were dealing with a p we gave up. They never backed us up (the grandparents) on anything. We somehow got through the years and have just come to terms with how bad the situation is and we are nearing 70!!!! The grandparents that interferred and put us down are gone. Please don't wait as long as we did. Actually, I think I saw more then my husband. The step son and his mother put me in a position of psychopathic step-mother. I was amazed that they tried to carry this off for years. Nothing was further from the truth. But sadly, truth has no part of their world! My husband is the most wonderful and kind person. His son is desperate to get back on the gravy train. I wonder what he will do next. We were kept in the dark about so many things that were used to take us in emotional and financial ways. Just using Zabasearch.com and Docusearch.com give easy to get information about identity theft attempts, where they spend money they have stolen from you, etc., etc.

If I had any advice it would be for the actual parent to get wise and as early as possible and try to build your lives and not let them go down the drain. It is amazing our marriage survived a deadly war on it but we never blamed each other and my husband was wise enough to not send the son to a party college when he got his GED. He didn't graduate from high school because "he was being picked on".For sending him to a Junior College my hsuband was threatened and cursed. BTW, son never finished one quarter - he went two or three quarters and would quit before the end of the quarter. I guess we thought he would straightened out at 18, then 21, then 30. We did everything during a crisis and now he is 40. He is blaming me for his father finally having enough. I don't feel at all safe. We have taken away the reward of harming us by taking him out of our wills. We were advised to leave him something to get him not to sue the estate. He doesn't know he is being left a smaller percentage. We were also advised to get a living, revokable trust because they are harder break. But as he operates minute to minute I don't know if anything really helps. Jen