Hi. I'm a new member. I am trying to cope with a psychopathic mother. She is very nasty and revengeful. But presents herself as a strong christian. To illustrate, I've just found out that I have an older brother (adopted out, after my parents were married). She is very cold, and has no friends, but has total control of my (nonadopted) brother, sister and father. They make up huge lies about me (all of them!), and think i need to find god. I have just discovered other relatives, and they are mostly very lovely and understand much (but I did not know exactly where my relatives lived (aunts, uncles, cousins), and thought they would not be so supportive). My mother would kill me if she could get away with it. Has anyone else had an experience like this? I am keen to talk to anyone who has had a similar experience with a mother.

Hi RockSolid

This sounds awful for you. Has it always been like this? But remember that there are many reasons for someone to behave really badly - other mental problems etc. Why do you think she is a psychopath as this is important in knowing what can or cannot be done to try and help you?

Best of luck

Recovery

Hi Recovery -- thanks for the response. And excellent question. I did not always know. We were always taught by her that she was the martyr (our father has a bad temper, which he cannot control, and he is very strict, though also means well; he was always on the outer). She was always like that, but we were very religious (evangelical) and very obedient (I was once punished severley for finding out my father's middle name). the atmosphere in the house was terrible, but very supresessed, and i understood little. I believe that my mother is very immature emotionally -- she thinks badly of almost everyone and considers herself saintly. But while she has poor social and coping skills, she is not crazy. Also, there is no mental health problems in either parent's families. My father's family has no history of violence (tho my father had some nasty violent outbursts as a child). Most telling, my mother has sisters who have estranged their children too. But family who are not like this are either genuinely really good. I think my mother has deep problems from when she was a child, of inadequacy and lack of control, and also she could never see fault in herself. Also, there seems to be a need to really hate someone, and she uses religion to keep her thoughts narrow.

I don't really know; I think an outsider would understand better, as I have generally been very dense on the matter -- I am only now at 42 getting a better understanding, and mostly that has been when others point things out.

But it is not desperate either, i might add. i have very loving immediate family (a quite exceptional husband of over 20 years), lovely very supportive parents-in-law (who know much), as well as now a very loving extended family (although the bonds are still new).

....[phew!]. Maybe I'm too hard on her, but the pain has been shocking. I'm interested in anything you can make of it.

Thanks so very much,
Rocksolid

Hi rocksolid, yes its hard to understand but yes women can be just as much a P as men but fewer i think, the mother of my children is a real bad P, for years i thought she must care and couldnt understand how she could do what she was doing, the oldest child was virtually caring for the 3 youngest boys at age 16 and when she left home it was only 2 weeks before i was told that either i take custody of the children or she would start hurting them or put them in a foster home, so i took custody and havent looked back or spoken to her since that day in 1997, she now tells the children that i have custody because i threatened to bash her if she didnt give them to me, IE they never get better or admit to any wrong doing, they care for nobody and thge best thing to do is keep them out of your life, yes it hurts but at least you will get over it with time, and NEVER try and understand why or how they could act that way!!! it will drive you mad...cheers from oz..

Hi Oz, What you say makes a lot of sense. I can do without her contact, and want her away from me. But it hurts how she has lied to my brother, sister and father, and that they have chosen to believe her. I have not handled things cleverly, which she has, and being out of contact for many years has confused things. But apart from the religion (which is big to them) it is unbelievable that they could be so nasty. I have always been really nice and kind, albeit prone to be the emotional one. How can they be so nasty, and without any provocation from me (quite the opposite -- e.g., always going out of my way to say and mean nice things, giving money etc). There cannot be 3 psychopaths (my father is not; he is just childish and insecure; in better circumstances we'd repair the damage).

Hi RockSolid,

It sounds as though you are in a very confusing sitution that you don't understand (and no wonder, I might add).

You write:

"I'm interested in anything you can make of it. "

From what you say about your mother it's clear that she is fundamentally religious with a rather narrow worldview. I feel that this is sometimes the case with people who are very religious - they hold on to a very narrow worldview in order to maintain their emotional balance and sense of self. Anything that threatnes their emotional balance is bad, sinful and not up for discussion. This *could* be the reason for her poor social and coping skills. Another reason *could* be lack of formal education. People without sufficient formal education can feel inadequate and ill-at-ease in the presence of other people

It is very diificult to say whether your mother is a psychopath.

There two things that are a little indicative.

1. The fact that she has a "lack of control".

However, this could simply mean that she is bad tempered.

2. The fact that she "could never see fault in herself".

This is the one thing that psychopaths cannot do - see any faults in themselves. But that alone doesn't make her a psychopath. A person has to have several of the criteria from Hare's list.

Have you checked out the book Without Conscience by Robert Hare?

I think Hare's list is somewhere on this site. I'll check it out and let you know where you can find it.

Could you be a little more descriptive about your mother and her behaviour and characteristics while keeping your father out of the equation? That would make it easier to help you.

Take care and take heart,

Nan

Hi, I had the file listed on my PC, keep in mind this is not a solid way to figure out if someone is a Psychopath but should give you some guidelines.

Psychopathy checklist

Hi Nan
I'm in two minds too. Looking at the list some things fit well (e.g., pathological lying, callousness). Others not (e.g., my father often called her frigid). It could be the family that she was bought up with -- but no up bringing could make someone that cold and callous. There is something wrong with her.

I do not think it is a lack of formal education, although she does have little education (I have several postgrad quals, obtained in later life). I think it angers her and my sister that I have always been by far the most pretty, successful etc.

My mother was very controlling (a different scale from other peoples') and there was no warmth. She never laughed, except an occassional snigger at someone's misfortune.

Maybe she is extremely cold without being a psychopath. She can do things to me (e.g., push me out a window, destroy property, have no interest in my children whatsoever). But she does not fit the serial psychopath in the community. She donates to the church (well, I think she does at least) and does a small amount of voluntary work (people in wheelchairs).

But she does not have superficial charm. People generally see straight-up that she is cold and distant, and that she generally likes few of them.

Hard to know. I'm very glad of the kind help.

Hi Nan, Recovery, and others who have offered help. Looking at Hare's criteria again, if it were being scored by an outsider it is unlikely that my mother would score the minimal 20 or so points. She is not impulsive, and I would not even call her irresponsible in a general sense (except towards those who matter). She is manipulative and extremely self-centred, and callous, but I guess not really a psychopath. Maybe some people become so sure they are good and right that they can justify psychopathic-type behaviors. Anyway, I don't know her well enough to add any more (we have had very little contact since I fled the house many moons ago). The saga just reappears because of repeated behaviors in siblings, which are hard to fathom. You would think there was a way of talking any compromise into them, but I don't know how, other than going into the lions' den, and that's bound not to work (I'll get bitten, and they'll enjoy the taste of flesh).

Maybe there needs to be another DSM category -- religious fanatics with calous tendencies.

Hi Rocksolid

Hope you manage to make some sense of your mother; understanding where the problem lies can take away a lot of the hurt and self-doubt that anyone brought up in an unloving atmosphere must feel.

You probably need to do quite a bit of reading before you can decide whether she is or is not a P. Cleckley's classic book on the subject is called 'The Mask of Sanity' with good reason - P's do wear a mask, and one has to be pretty close to them to see behind it. Some of them do hide behind a pseudo-religious front, and make the most horrendous mockery of something which should be beautiful.

If you can get hold of Robert Hare's book, 'Without Conscience' and Cleckley's book, which is in fact available on line (http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/psychopath.htm), these should give you a good idea of whether you are dealing with a P. If not, you probably have to look at her own background and upbringing to understand what she is.

I'm so glad you see that the problem is 'her' and not 'you'.

All the best

Thanks Ali, Dianne, Nan and Recovery. Your input is much appreciated (and reread several times!). It is hard to appreciate that their is nothing i could say to my mother and brother and sister that would make any of them be kind and normal. Very hard to fathom. But there is not much else to say, other than I must focus on the good in life. And thanks for this forum -- its a real credit to all who help make it happen.

Hi Rocksolid

I guess you need to look at your mother, your brother and your sister as three separate instances. Even if it turns out that your mother is a P, your brother and sister may or may not be. 'Mirroring' of the P's behaviour by their children is not uncommon - my own daughter went through a brief stage of it at one point, and there is no-one less P-like than she is. But if they are truly P's the only thing you can do, unless there is a breakthrrough in medical science, is walk away from it and live your own life, sad as it seems.

Hi Rocksolid

Just a quick dip in to say I agree with Ali, Di and Nan's comments. Keep up your research too.

AS you may have seen we are trying to start lobbying for changes to the system to protect children of Ps. My view is that a child is harmed under the care of a P, and even unsupervised contact with the Parent P could do damage. As a child brought up by a disturbed parent, what do you think - do you think blood rules or would you maybe have been better brought up away from the (possible) P. i know it is a difficult question but i would appreciate any thoughts you would like to share.

Thanks

Recovery

Thank you both Ali and Recovery. I will keep reading on the topic. Also, now that I have contact with extended family I can begin to ask questions about her background. I know there are secrets.

One of the secrets is that my parents had a child before me which they adopted out. I have only just found this out and am currently going through the court system to get information so that I can locate him. I am very happy about it, but am trying not to have any expectations. But in answer to your question Recovery, I wish I had been adopted out too. Of course then I would have had questions about my parents, and my new parents would not have been as alike in some ways. But I honestly wonder whether any pain could be worse than a whole family like this -- most people have no idea, even though though they are sure they do. From my mother there does not seem to have been a day in my life when her spite has not been there. Adoption has had a bad rap.

Hi Rocksolid

Thanks for being so open. I hope you stay around the forum. I am so sorry you had such a bad time as a child - you're right in that the rest of us can't imagine the sadness felt. I hope you might even support our lobby group too.

It would be great for you to find your brother to - good luck with the search.

Best of luck

Recovery

Hey Recovery, you Old Timer you . Thank you so much for all your careful thoughts and empathy -- they matter. I am off overseas tomorrow for 4 weeks but when I get back I hope to have the information about my brother (assuming the courts agree to give out the information; it can be difficult when vetoes are placed on contact here).

I do not live in the US, and for that reason wonder how i could support your cause. I guess I might ordinarily best help with lobbying or submissions, but officials would be unwise to give much weight to random foreigners.

How can people best help protect others from Ps and the like, particularly children? i have often thought I would like to help someone like me -- but it is very hard to interfere. Or to really help.

What do you think we can do to help?

Hi Rocksolid

I hope you have a great trip! i don't live in the US either - I'm in the UK. But this is hopefully where our strength will come from - we live all over the world but all have shared the P experience and recognise the need to try and change things. No doubt it will be slow, maybe we won't make an instant impact - but if we keep trying and can help to change things then I want to try.

If you look at the raising awareness thread you'll see some of the ideas we are putting together. - your thoughts will be welcome.

byee

Recovery

Hi Rocksolid

I'm so pleased to read of your interest in the lobby group which Recovery mentioned.

At the moment, our fledgling group consists only of parents whose children have been affected by psychopaths. Someone like yourself could add so much to our knowledge, since you have actually experienced what we are fighting against.

Incidentally, our group has something of a 'world flavour', since our three members live on three different continents. Don't know where you live, but wherever it is, you would fit right in!

Hope you have a great trip, and I really hope it works out well with your brother. It would be wonderful for you to find a caring person who is your very own family.

All the best

hello, I read your posts and felt empathy for you. My boyfriends mother is a socipath and very very very emotionally unstable and all the above that you mentioned. Also, acts and talks as if she is the most religious woman around. It is difficult in your circumstances because I can see how your views of "Christian" may be tainted due to your mother. Im sure you love her because its your mom but her actions dont have to ruin you as a person. God loves you more than anything. He created you for a reason and there is purpose for everything. You may not have the earthly love that you need here but God is perfect and he is always there. His love never fails. You DO Need jesus because without him you will never find healing. I promise. I am a strong Christian and I have struggled to find forgiveness for a long time to my bfs mother, but I have prayed and prayed about it and relied on Christ knowing that my purpose on earth was to glorify him and not let one person consume my life and mind and ruin me, since I have been able to do that, my heart hs changed and God has given me a heart of compassion for her. Its been an on going journey and she still drives me nuts. But I am learning to rely on God for my strength. Hope you find peace through God.. hes the only true peace you will find. Get involved in church and go talk to a pastor..

I'm sorry for all the suffering that has brought you here. But glad you are able to find a way through though.

'You DO Need jesus because without him you will never find healing. I promise.'

From what I've seen, everyone finds their own healing path on this journey, in their own way.

For one person to say that you 'will never find healing' if you don't do xyz, 'I promise' is quite prescriptive. If it works for you, then that's really great. But please don't assume it's going to work for other people.

Hello everyone, I just joined. I really want to talk about my mother because I'm convinced she is a Psychopath. My memories fro
Childhood include daily verbal abuse, name calling, public ridicule, and constant favoritism shown to my brother. I am the oldest daughter, and I've always had a knack for books. I made straight A's as a child and when people said I was smart, she would say not as smart as her brother. My mom is very tall and physically beautiful, and I am short and chubby. She always pointed out I was fat or a pig in front of people, even boys when I was a teenager.
My mom married an ex con drug addict who touched me on more than one occasion inappropriately, and I think my mon got mad at me when I told her. When it happened when I was fourteen, she told me to go and live with my grandmother who was mentally disturbed herself.
On top of this, my stepfather had numerous affair and my mom would stalk the women and fight them in front of me when I was little. She even got into a fight with my stepfather and shot him 3 times! He came back to live with us after that. My mom also was a cleptomania. Who took all 3 of her kids with her while she went on stealing sprees. I could go into more detail, but I'm tired of typing. I have now grown up and made my own family, but mom tried to take my children. She made a false police report and called DCS stating that I neglect my children. Despite all that, I started back talking to her, but have yet to receive any type of apology or acknowledgement that the things even happened. I want to stop talking to her completely, but my kids love her. What should I do?

You should protect your children from her. The only way you can do this is to stay away...no contact. She may turn them against you. They don't understand her problem. One day they will love and appreciate you for it.

Planetchildren

Hi I agree with planetchildren. Keep your children away from her!!

If I had my chance again I would never have let my MIL near any of my children. She has tried to manipulate
her way into nearly aspect of their lives. I am so lucky that they have now seen through her!! She would try
and "buy" their love, it worked for awhile but not now. But the heartache she has caused is endless. I will
never forgive the pain and suffering she has caused my children, especially our two daughters.

They are cold, heartless and evil people, and do not deserve any recognition of their existence. I live on the
same property as my MIL and ignore her on a daily basis. I get stronger every time I know I have ignored her!!

Please take care, thinking of you.

Thanks for the support, because no one seems to understand. Everyone keeps saying, "Thats still your mom." I'm just tired of the way she makes me feel. I'm pretty much done. My kids ask to see her everyday, so it's difficult.

That's because no one does understand. Just think about how long it's taken you to come to the realization of what is going on. It was the same with my d-i-l. I really thought that she loved my grandson. But I know she doesn't. She damages his soul every chance she gets. Others just don't get it. But you do, and that's why you have to protect your children. And that's not wrong. It's the right thing to do.

Good luck,

Planetchildren

I am not sure if she is a Psychopath but some of her behavior seems very deceptive and without remorse.

She has been abused as well, so I wonder, as I was told, she walled off her own experiences and acted out.

things she has done that seem without remorse:

- physical abuse, encouraging others to abuse for her, while she watched
- when physical abuse occurred in the house she seemed more concerned if the furniture got damaged than if I got hurt
- I would get physically/ verbally attacked out of the blue by my brother. He would not be blamed, I would be blamed for being crazy, even if I was just sitting there saying/doing nothing to get hit.
- ignoring mental health issues- depression/panic/ ptsd- that was bad enough other people noticed.
- dominating my life. dictating how I dress. setting impossible standards that resulted in homelessness/ threats of foster care/ involuntary committment.
- smear campaigns that went to great lengths. As a youth it was school counsellors. It seemed she would get to them before I got to them to tell them what's going on.
- there is other stuff that just seems devious involving sexual abuse; it seems like a poorly formed attitudes around sex, like blaming a young teen over the aggressive sexual come ons of a 30 year old man, and forcing her to accept it by calling her a whore, and inciting younger family members to do the same.
- not being allowed friends. forced to be home at 3pm from school. not allowed to go anywhere indefinitely for being "bad."

other "Stuff" she has done:

- financial abuse. forcing me into such dire situations, where the common goal seems to make me out to be victimizing them. So when I end up homeless on account of their behavior I'm bad.
- lying about money. using ones inheretance.
- gaslighting: this I am not sure of, but I notice that arguments would start over minor things, then blow up way out of proportion, always about what kind of daughter I should be. I notice she would lie when these arguments occurred. She seems to accuse me of narcissism, only going after what I like etc, even when that is not the case.
- suspected tampering/discarding necessary medications that force me into semi crisis state if I can't get a refill/ or that might force me to miss work.
- a nasty jealous streak. If I achieve something that she cannot, the put downs are awful- I'm worthless. whatever I do that's good is only a one off/fluke because I am nasty anyway.
- lying, knowing she will get away with it, then using documentation that makes me look like I am throwing empty, jealous, greedy accusations- playing me off as the villain.
- when confronted about the child abuse, she never apologized, just called me a liar, played victim, called the accusation "nasty" then chided for using a swear word.

I left that situation. I left behind many things so she could not hold anything over me. I told her to have a yard sale, and to donate whatever inheritance I get to a child abuse protection agency that helped counsel me through what she did. No "I am sorry." just how that is such a nasty thing to say, and "well, have you calmed down yet?"

My mother is a psychopath. Not diagnosed, but she has so many traits there is no mistake. She tried to kill me as a child. She is lying, deceitful and hates me, though others see her as a lovely person. I can't see what they do. She had my brother and father against me as well and I was blamed for everything growing up. She is never to blame for anything, including her rage in private and her tantrums in public. I could go on for pages.

I'm now in my mid 40's. I left the state with my husband decades ago, and I now live abroad. Limiting contact to emails is the best way to deal with her and I only do that because she is with my father. I too always had the comments "she loves you deep down" and "she's still your mother". Fortunately for me, I was adopted at birth, so they are not my biological parents. My father is like her cult disciple and will do whatever it takes to please her. He used to always force me to apologise to her when she got into a rage, "to keep the peace" even if I wasn't the one who upset her in the first place. It was easy to upset her though, her rules changed constantly and were impossible to follow.

Your post just made my day. I Have a psychopath mother and I can relate to everything you said. I had no idea groups like this were out here.

Bless your heart and thank you for sharing that. It gave me the chills. Wow.

I understand the experience of having to live by constantly changing rules. Often set up so you can never succeed, and ultimately be left without defenses. I think that's what got me away from her. I crave an emotional relationship with my mother, but at the same time I feel like I have to move on and develop myself emotionally.

There is a memory I have my mother which is a big incident where she made me out to look like I am stealing.

I had not stolen anything. I had to go to swimming for gym class, and my bathing suit had torn. My mother new this. So she hid her bathing suit because she said she knew I would try to borrow it. I tried to call her at work a few times to ask to borrow it but she wouldn't answer her phone. I had to miss out on gym class instead.

She said she was one step ahead of me on this and she knew what I was trying to do. She threw me out of the house for a couple of weeks. I lived in some neighbors basement who was freaked out that I got treated like this. My job tried to get me sent to foster care.

My mother let me back home, and then proceeded to control my environment so much I was not allowed anywhere. I was not allowed to stay after school, talk on the phone. She said I was to be kept this way for months for all the trouble I caused. A friend of my brother called me a couple months later, and invited me out. Like a responsible kid in a normal situation, i left my mother a note. I called her and left a message on where I was, a phone number etc. my mother refused to come home for days. She went to a friends, and stayed there because I was a horrible daughter. I conversely decided not to come home. My brother called me and threatened me, and called a f***ing a***hole, and other pleasantries.

I guess I am bad for not going home but I don't think I had fair or honest communication from my mother, or a sense of safety when I was home. I never knew what was coming around the corner. She just seemed to create and look for anything to make it out like I am victimizing her, despite how she treated me.

I ended up in the shelter system for youth for a while. I called her weekly, gave her an address, a phone number, and asked to come home.

She reported to everyone she had no idea where I was, and I distressed her with how bad I was. I have an aunt I dislike strongly who has always told me I was horrible to my mother for running away, and my mom has every right to be angry at me for how badly I treat her.

Hi Brave, thank you so much for sharing your very important story. I am sorry for all the pain you suffered and hopefully writing it down and sharing with us will help with your healing. Many times when we write things down we can see it from a clear perspective.

It is also hard when you are raise by a family who tells you and is quite good at least temporarily of convincing you that you are the crazy one in the deal.

This is a very important subject as we get lots of people too much in pain and fear to post and come to read only. It is important for people who have children to know first hand what the children go through if they share a house or visitation with a Psychopathic partner.

Di