Hi Recovery,

Thinking about it, I can see that the P liked to show that I was 'his' woman when we were out. He did not hold hands or anything like that. What he did was somewhat embarrasing things like running the back of his hand across my breast in a way that clearly established "ownership", or he would grab the back of my neck so hard that I was held as if in an iron grip. He only did these things if there were other men around.

With sex it was always loud and clear, " I want, and you comply". And then it was 'Slam, bam, thank you, Ma'am' with me as the submissive partner.

Nan

Post deleted by outsider

Post deleted by outsider

outsider
(member)
10/19/04 08:30 AM

I am Hiding from You People

That is what I do. Been at this board a week or two. Yes, I know, I have posted a lot of gibberish. But I have not really told about me. BTW: am still confused about my murdering sister.

When I was 26 I laid eyes on the most beautiful male creature I had ever seen. He had a square face, a chisled nose, full lips, blackish thick shoulder length wavy hair, dark devilish eyes, good looks so striking that men stalked him to get the overflow of women from just going out with him. To add to it, he was a Wild Thing--which back then turned me on. A hippy, a rennaissance man, an artist, extremely educated. Later I would discover his family was filthy rich. Later I would have his child and that beauty is with me now.

To tell you the truth people, I don't like to talk about it. I don't like to read the posts about these men. It took me from age 26 to age 41 to realize he is a monster and even now, b/c of my Catholic upbringing, the brainwashing to me by his cold hearted parents and the blame they cast on me over and over through the years, the push-over ex-priest of a state parole agent he had--I feel guilty calling him a monster.

When I come to this board, I leave it feeling nervous-- in spite of the fact that it certified what I suspected about him and also vindicated me and validated me from a P boss I suffered at the hands of last year--that one was very spooky in deed (another day).

"My" "P" is as bad as they get. I can't go into all the detail, the dozens of stories over the years, the lies, the manipulations, the blame laid at my feet for everything, the many faces of him, the behaviors that would leave me shaking with disbelief (I thought I knew this person). Suffice it to say, he is the poster boy for Psychopaths. He has even tried to kill, having stalked and stabbed a complete stranger- a woman--31 times in the back. She miraculously survived. He exhibits all the signs, oh yes. It was over between us the day he used my daughter as a human shield to protect the flow of cash to himself from his father blaming and lying and having she and I thrown out into the street "for treating poor Dan so badly" This after the sick pup was sleeping with a ragged drug whore for a week in my bed while I was on a one week vaction to see my parents and bring our little girl back home from her summer vacation there with my parents. (I am a gifted sleuth who happened onto this info and was able to proove it and trap him on this w/o him being able to weasle out of it--even from a thousand miles a way). This aberant behavior on his part scared the hell out of me b/c I know he idolizes me-- you all may laugh, but it is so, it is a fatal attraction. And so to me it was more absolutely insane behavior (and BTW, freakishly enough, there is no explanation for it, but those dashing good looks of his are somehow morphed--gone--and not only I say it--- he is almost becoming outwardly what he is inwardly-- he can occasionally still look smashing and take a great picture but all and all people simply find him somewhat strange looking and fear him somewhat--esp this effect on kids.(their senses are so wonderfully un polluted).

That's all I want to say about him for now.
The other part of my story is my mother. Better were I never to have had one. Better were I to have been brought up in an orphanage.

There are no warm memories.
She has been my emotional abuser from my earliest childhood memory. She took my ego, me center, my heart, my spirit, she sliced it and diced it a thousand different ways for a thousand years and is blind to it.

She should never have been able to bear children, and this bit of knowledge makes me wonder about the wisdom of God.
Enough for now.

With my sister having cruely and viciously caused the death of a rehabiliated man by first destroying his heart and then taking his life,
The family mythology is smashed to pieces. Oh my mother can continue to make up heinous lies and excuses for my sister's hateful viscious rampage--AND SHE IS--my sister spoke to her husband with such loathing and contempt everyday yet wore him like a trophy-

But I am on a quest for an excellent psychiatrist to work with me pro-bono or for work exchange as I have a feeling I am on the threshold of a breakthrough.

I look back at life in my family and at my sister in general, and God forgive me, but I oftentimes hope they give my sister 20 plus years. God forgive me.
I have spent a lifetiime begging for the affections of my mother and sister and mostly for naught.
And dear old dad, the recovering alcoholic, let's it all play out and never says a word.

Mother rules the kingdom and she is a sick duck. More on her another post some other day.

Outsider,

I said up top that the words that you used to describe your sister are usually used in conjunction with BPD (Dianne may have also said something to you about BPD, but I don't recall her doing so).

The board supports victims of Psychopaths, its function is not to diagnose Ps. Certainly you are describing P and/or BPD traits in your sister and in your ex-partner. Whether there are enough traits to constitute a diagnosis of psychopathy and/or a diagnosis of BPD, is outside the scope of this forum.

I think I have read that the Hare psychopathy checklist clinically applied by professionals trained in its application, takes about 2 hours.

I thought I posted this (I can't find it - there is so much activity on the board at the moment) so I apologise if I am saying this twice: as you have described to us, your sister is incarcerated under suspicion of murder. I expect that her legal counsel will submit her for a psychological assessment very soon to see if she is mentally fit to stand trial, or if her psychology can aid them in her defence. So you will have a professional opinion soon enough.

Kind regards

KT

Hi KT,
My sister is not in jail as a suspect: she did it. She charge him and stabbed him viciously in the jugular vein and his body is full of defensive wounds and she says she only threw the knife across the room at him. As for the father of my child, KT, no one is more a psychopath than this character.
As for my sister, it is still on the fence. Her grief is for herself. Her handwriting is smooth and even. It is a tough thing to figure out. I have no question about my daughter's father-- as I said--he's the poster boy--a complete inabiliity to empathize. It will take time to figure it out about my sister. I have to wonder that you would think my experiences are not fit for this board?? Do you mean that Kit? As I said, my daughter's father is the poster child for P's. He terrorized me for years w/ his complex manipulative lunatic dangerous mind. You seem annoyed with me. I have been all over the board, I did not know to stay on my thread and it makes much more sense to do so and am glad was instructed to come back here for everything.
I have myself a charlie manson-ish ex and a murdering sister.
Kit, I think I fit here to trying to figure this stuff out
and yes my head is all over the damn place yet again with these crazies in my life.
I am not new to psychopaths: I suspected this of in my ex for years. I came here to try to determine it of my sister. Her history is full of the signs.
talk to you soon/ Re-reading this I see I am being defensive. I see what you really mean now. I am telling you KT and everyone, this has jumbled my head something terrible. Sorry.
outsider

Outsider,

You write:

"I have to wonder that you would think my experiences are not fit for this board?? Do you mean that Kit?"

At the risk of putting words into KT's mouth, I wish to say that, I do NOT believe that she could mean, say or even think such a thing. KT has been posting for a long time and her empathy is not in question.

Regards,

Nan

Besides not understanding the way the board works and besides the fact that my mind races a million miles an hour--
one other reason I had been posting outside of this thread I think is the very nature of the worst part of being related to a possible P. The family forum is much less busy than the romance/business forum. It seems a disease in itself to be related to a P and I have gotten some of that in my life here in the real world since my sister did this. This is double hell b/c my daughter and I loved the victim dearly. We have noone to grieve with b/c my parents are in a fantasy to "make my sister an okay person" by villainizing her victim.
Kit makes a valid point and observation that the board is more for support than diagnosis--but certainly I have read a ton of threads by desparate people asking if so and so sounds like a P.
It is hell to think, ponder, possibly discover that you shared the womb with one (a P), a mother with one. That the mysteries of a lifetime can be answered with this ugly answer. My sister is competent to stand trial. In my state, unless you are filthy rich, incompetency to stand trial is almost impossible to get. Since I have been telling my sister 3 -4 weeks ago to own this thing and etc.-- she has stopped writing. I am relieved.
Yesterday I spent the entire day with my finally best friend b/c she finally quit drinking, I waited for that for 12 years and kept her at arms length all that time, while she went through the process of her second DUI in 7 1/2 years. She's generous and successul at work and I know she is going to do great in sobriety. But being at the courthouse with her all day was hard. I saw my sister's lawyer. I thought I about the pre-lim I had attended. I thought about it all--you think about it 24 hours a day.
You think about the victim, a person you loved, being gone forever, ALL THE TIME. You think about your child's lunatic father being back in the county jail next door again, the P, who violated state parole yet again.
You are worn out and wonder how you got into the middle of these people and when will it end. I am surrounded by murderers.
Let me tell you, It is scary and creepy and gives one anxiety attacks out of no where. People you think you knew... your own sister.
Suddenly there are no rules left in life. Anything can happen. Everyone is crazy and no one is safe anymore and no one is to be trusted. Just a raised voice and I go running. My crazy nit picking landlord called me yet again yesterday scolding me yet again about something minute (I have a perfect tentant record all my life--we are the perfect tentants) I lost it. How dare he call me and yell at me in my home. I have had enough. My girlfriend whom I mentioned above is a landlord and she was appalled when I relayed his gripe-his outburst (I had not removed my airconditioner yet from the window)--he's very very old and VERY stingy with the buck. Guess why it has not been removed? The murdered brother-in-law, my brother-in-law, took care of this for me. I just hung up the phone on my landlord and told him to stop bothering me all the time and that I am moving this summer.
I have gone through this process before where someone I loved committed a horrible bloody insane crime and I know what I am in for and it rocks your world and can take for ever to come out the other side. I am doing what ever I can to try to get help to speed up that process and trying to figure out what and who my sister is is definately a vital part of healing and understanding.
thanks all.
Outsider

Hi KT, I am quite certain that I didn't make a reference to BPD. I think it is very uncommon for a victim to get an official diagnosis about the suspected P in their lives. I try to let people come to their own conclusions after reading the criteria and stories of others.

Outsider, I will send an email to a friend that works in the prison system here in the US. I spent a short stint a few years ago working for a criminal defense attorney (it made me sick) and at least in California all prisoners go through "intake" at San Quentin for an assessment. As far as I know this assessment is for the purposes of placement at another prison and is about gang issues etc. to insure proper segregation etc.

As far as your sister, it is very hard to be declared incompetent to stand trial. Heck, Ted Bundy was declared competent to even be his own attorney.

Even if the system does an analysis of your sister and tells her she is a Psychopath, could you really trust that she would tell the truth about it?

Best Regards,
Di

Outsider here again,
I read a tiny bit last night on some interesting threads- my daughter takes over the computer after school. Great thread about narcistic vs P. and in it mentioning the way we merge w/ these characters and why. I like the saying that love is not found gazing into each others eyes but outward towards a shared common goal. One way to help protect us from our vulnerability of getting involved w/ our attractions to these characters. My red flags go up when my eyes are drawn to someone I do not know from my long history of bad choices.
This thread well, becoming my personal diary.
Yesterday was a weird day-- it was a hard day-- as if the murder had just occurred-- as if my brother-in-law had just died. As if it were all new. I had to fight very hard through the day yesterday and I conquered it- God was with me yesterday. Out of nowhere comes the horrible truth ( I am going to give my brother-in-law a fictious name for ease of writing and my sister as well--nothing is at trial yet) Liz killed Peter. It is surreal. It can't be. a nightmare. He will call on the phone. We had turkey for dinner. He really loved turkey and loved to cook it. As clear as day I could see his sparkling eyes and big smile and an oven mit and a cooking fork and him looking at a pan of roasting turkey in his oven and at us like he just found the Holy Grail. What was I doing making turkey? How can I never see him again? How can I ever talk to my sister again.