Dear Segaya,

Yes, 'uplifting' is the word:) You make me smile! And you are right. This thing about approval. No. Only I need to approve of and for myself. You said you felt a irreversable change and I feel it too and when I hear what you say, I don't need anyone else's approval, I know that I have actually passed that point of change. Sometimes when I read our posts I get goose bumps. There seems to be little slack to cut in the movements we make. From such poverty to such fullness. From so downtrodden to so uplifted. From so controlled to so free. Anything in the middle? I don;t think so. Yes, these are the rewards. Having been stretched so far and not been beaten, it all takes on a new perspective. I am drawing strength from our talks and I feel a ground beneath my feet now. This approval thing is very interesting to me because I see I was a slave of that inner hope for a long time. This is all really a major growing up rite of passage, I suppose. Finally understanding my mother I am coming to understand my self. Not bound to her in this, but freed from her, stepping outside my being solely a daughter to becoming a real woman, psychologically. So these outworn ideals and hopes and subserviences can all be let slip away now. Time to truly stand on my own. And as I BE with myself, each day I feel happier and my confidence to sustain myself will increase. It amazes me. Yes, I look back too and see how I accepted the limits and limited perspectives. But now having company of other free spirits, that is finally changing. As you said, it takes time to grieve and really let go. But you know, all this is meaningful pain now. It's not endless, vague, unidentified PAIN. It now is a birthing pain that lasts a time then produces something new to go forward with. I really do appreciate your thoughts and comments on the abuse. It is so refreshing to hear someone say these things. And I agree. It just amazes me how freeing it is to me when you speak of these things and of your life as you do about yourself. All for one and one for all. That's how it feels. Your strength and conviction is a lead for me. I am so pleased and proud to have you and your wonderful 'voice'. It so makes sense that you are a singer - like in the old, old way - not just making a lovely sound for pure entertainment alone, but communicating something of importance, like a herald, you know? Yes, I will go over. As this kind of crisis passes and I get used to what I have learned about my mother I will be able to settle into this new understanding and just BE. And thankfully these messages will be around to review and absorb and appreciate over time.

Lots of love, Sapphira

hai Nan,
It's always difficult isn't it to have a child with problems. It's so painful to see all dreams shattered and broken in peaces. We have high hopes when carring them and when they are born they seem so lovely.
When did the problems start with your daughter if I may ask?
I can't imagine that the first thing that went wrong was her climbing out the bedroom window? Where there no signs before that?
What you discribe is promescue behavior and I don't think only ps, has this as a symptom. There are a lot of things that can go wrong in a childs live and it can be it has nothing to do with the situation at home.. No matter how hard we try to protect our children...5 minutes on the schoolyard and they have a trauma for live... So maybe you can try to find if something happend to your daughter. Sometimes girls have these kind of behavior also after a sexual herasment forinstands. I don't say this happend to her,don't get me wrong.
I only try to look for other possibillities then this Psychopath thing. I hope and pray your daughter is not a Psychopath'. If she is, its is better to know about it. But it's hard to tell if somebody is, just on a note and a few words. And like Jan told you already. we can't make a diagnoses. the hard thing is a psychiatrist won't either....We are on our own and that makes it very hard. Luckely we found this ofurm and I found and got a lot of support here from the other members.

I have a son who is a Psychopath. I can relate that way with other parents. My parents where also Psychopath's and I knew this for a long time already but just realized it..( does this make sense to you? I just didn't think about htem for decades now ...)

I am curious about your daughter and her previous behavior. Was she a difficult child or did this behavior start in the 'fire age'?( puberty)
Did she have any of the sympotoms you read in the checklist before? Or simmilar?

You don't have to answer any questions if you don't want to. Here we are with people who care and are involved. But the importend thing is you feel at ease to tell ....
Greetings Segaya

Dear Sapphira,
I wish I had your way with words...They are poetic!!!
And exactly as I want to disribe it and can't...
Yes You are a free spirit. And you are a CORNUCOPIA indeed. Full with all goodies that can come out now and will spurprise you a great deal...
It's so rewarding to see that with little help you , in the same situation, see everything in a different perspective now...You where so ready to move on....And you do!!...
Saying you want to move on is one thing...doing it is a totally different thing , take it from me..I have seen it happen to so many of us... And some will go the long way and some go back in there little cocon too afraid to break free.
The ones who come out and dair to see what is really happening go so incradibly fast in they're process that I am amazed everytime I see and feel it happen.
I am a lucky lady; I saw what this process did for me AND on top of it all I see it with other women too. No, I rarely see this with men. A) they are not very enthousiastic to really workthey're way out, and B) they didn't learn how to deal with emotions ( even less then we did)
The strenght I saw and see in women is unbelieveble... And I feel it in your words and in the words spoken by Lady Crown..And it makes me so happy.
Through your pain you feel your own strenght and this is so beautifull. Live takes care of us, it really does..We only have to accept it!! The horn of the goat is full with everything we need!!!
take it , it's yours ,and yours alone...it's a gift!! ( if you know what I mean......)
love , hugs and a big,big smile Segaya

Hi, friends,

I just wanted to touch base with you and let you know I am having a severe setback, or "flareup", as my psychiatrist says, of my anxiety and depression. I didn't want you to think I had disappeared, but I am not doing well. Please keep me in your thoughts for a few days, I think of you always and am glad you are "out there" for me. Much love, Lady Crown

My dear pinky Lady Crown...
'keep me in your thoughts for a few days???' even more as you are already ??..IMPOSSIBLE!!!!
Thank you for lettings us know you are still out there and still working to get better.
(hint; Have you ever heard of the Bach flower remedy?? I think you can look it up on the internet)
I have to let you now that last week when I dyed my hair I didn;t use shampoo at all. This morning was the third time I washed it only CO and I have to say...My hair looks and feels better everytime I do it like this. I am so glad with this tip you gave thank you so much!!!
If there is anything we can do for you to help you through those difficult times than please tell us or share or shout or cry...we are here in all those situations....
Love, hugs and girly hello's; Segaya

Dear Lady Crown,

Thank you so much for letting us know how things are with you. I had noticed your not being about and was wondering about you. I'm glad to know just how things are for you, because we can let you know that, yes, we are certainly thinking of you and will be even more so, holding you in our hearts, wishing the best for you. As Segaya said, please let us know if we can help. We are here, not really far away at all.
Lots of love and sweet thoughts for you.
Sapphira

My dear Pinky Girlgroup,( and ofcourse all others who might read this!)

last week I told I had written to the administrator of this forum to ask permission to go a bit furhter in telling things about how to cope with all that has happend.
I got word back today and Dianne is giving permission to do so.
I opened a new topic for this. You can find it on the general discussion also.
I forget alreay how I called it; I think...There is a way out!
So hope it will work for others like it worked for me....
( This is just the first part of a whole lot of it!!!!)

( Sapphira, I think you know this step already , I think I read it in your post...Next step is espacially for you!)
Love Segaya

Hi, everyone.

I should say Happy St. Patrick's Day first! Gelukkige St. Patrick Dag, Segaya!

I'm sorry I've been absent for so long. I've been having a really rough time, so bad I couldn't even write about it. It's not that anything actually happened at first, but somehow I fell into a spiral of terrible anxiety, a brutal migraine, and complete insomnia, all at the same time. None of the painkillers would work, and the intensity didn't diminish at all, it stayed at an excruciating level the whole time. I was a nervous wreck and even after the migraine finally left, days later every time I thought about it, and how scared I was it would come back, I started crying, which I'm not allowed to do because it kicks in another headache. So I didn't have any real emotional relief from it either. Sometimes you just want to lie down on the bed and cry your eyes out, and I'm not allowed to do that. So I don't really have any outlets for my feelings, and I'm not the "break the dishes" type. Ughh, just writing about it again is making my eyes fill with tears.

Then, I got another battering from my family. My mother said my Psychopath sister wanted everyone for Easter dinner, and she has to go because my sister "sounds down". I said "What about everyone getting together for a short drive or something instead?" Of course that was a no, because it was my idea. If I had invited everyone for dinner, I would have gotten a no. My Psychopath sister keeps lying to my mother and telling her she calls me and I don't answer the phone, and no matter what I say, my mother never believes me and keeps commenting on it. I keep telling her my sister is not calling but she just ignores what I say. The next day I called my brother and asked if I could borrow a photo album in a week or two, to make copies of the pictures for a project I have in mind. My Narcissistic brother didn't even let me finish the first sentence; he said to wait, put the phone down, and went running to my mother. Mind you, he is 55 and she is 87! She got on the phone and said that I had upset him, and to stop asking for the album, and telling me not to demand things overnight, etc. etc. She refused to put him back on, because "he was upset" and she doesn't know if she wants me to have it. I told her I didn't ask for it overnight, and why is she even involved? Then I asked why she had been able to loan it to my Psychopath sister at Christmas, and she said, "Well, that was different." What makes it different? Because it's me asking.

So I was kind of shocked after this, although I shouldn't be, but I just sat there in a daze, unable to believe what I had just heard. It wasn't what she said, although that was rude and insulting, but the tone of her voice, of both their voices. Just contempt and annoyance and resentment. The good thing, if there can be a good thing, is that for once I wasn't wondering what I had done wrong; I was furious that they would talk to me like that and treat me like that. I was so angry my husband had to take me out for a drive. (He drove.) All I was talking about (not that I got the chance to finish my sentence) was picking up an album, slipping it in a shopping bag, and handing it to me. What's with all the drama? You would think I had asked for some blood, or for the whole family to go through the album.

So I haven't talked to them since. The next day I had to go over to drop off some food I had prepared for my mother, and the first thing she said was, "I told you you were supposed to call before you came over." Not a word of apology or even a mention of the phone call, just another criticism. I walked in, said, hi and bye, put the food in the fridge and walked out. I haven't talked to them since. She called me yesterday to ask if I was going to my Psychopath sister's for Easter, and I said "No." Just No. Not explaining, not reasoning, not talking. And now she's acting all hurt about it. And my Psychopath sister still has not called, to invite us or anything, which is fine because I don't even want to be around these people for one second.

I spent years of my life with this happening and I always would end up sitting alone, wondering what I had done wrong, what should I have said, when should I have asked, feeling guilty and horrible. In the past few years I have come to realize that it doesn't matter if it is a spool of thread or a pencil. No matter what, their resentment of me is so powerful that any little request or idea I have is an enraging affront to them. I think of how the two times I had serious injuries after two accidents, and was alone, and once when I was ill, and had no doctor or medicine and I needed help. I called my mother and she said I was fine, and just find someone to stay with me for a couple of nights. No one ever came or sent anything or called to check on me, and I was six hours away. I could have died.

I remember groping my way back down the hallway to my room, and wondering what I should do. I had no one to stay with me, I was dazed and injured and in pain, and I sat on the side of my bed, trying not to cry, wondering if I should call back and ask another way. I felt like I had bothered her. I couldn't even see straight, but there I was, feeling all the blame. I didn't know what to do, so I wrote a note about the accident in case they found me dead the next day, and tried to go to sleep, begging God to let me wake up in the morning. It was due to these accidents that I still suffer from constant headaches and neck pain and immobility. Maybe I said the wrong prayer.

So now, I am finally a little calmer and am able to write to you. Every night I thought of Segaya and Jan and Sapphira and Dianne, and thought, "My girls are out there, and I know they are thinking of me.", and it helped me so very much. I'm just sorry I was unable to write. I was not only suffering this setback or flareup, I also had to stay off the computer because the light was just killing my eyes.

I can feel the pain on the right side kicking up again, so I have to sign off. I'm sorry if this didn't cover enough for you, I'll try to write again tomorrow. Thinking of you all, as always, with love and concern. Hope you are doing well. with love, Lady Crown

Hi Lady Crown

It’s good to hear from you, it’s always a concern when we don’t hear from someone for a while and of course we are thinking about you that goes without saying. Please don’t feel you ever have to post, this forum is like a true good friendship so when you don’t hear from a friend for ages you are so pleased when you do but never question why they hadn’t been in touch.
I’m sorry to learn you have been so ill, I suffer from migraines but not anywhere near as bad as that so only have a glimpse of what are going through. I’m sitting here typing with a hot wheat pillow on my neck trying to relieve the pain. I haven’t a clue what I’ve done to trigger it this time (originally from a car crash injury).and know how it gets you down when you are physically weakened.

I’m so pleased that you are taking such a strong stand with the family, you have come so far since you first posted here but maybe you don’t realise it. You seem to have accepted that your family will never change and they are the ones with the problems and although you are the odd one out you are the fortunate one.

How sensible that you took the food, didn’t fall in with the game, gave no explanation and walked out again. Wow! I’m impressed and even more impressed that you fulfil your moral obligations to an elderly mother without any reward. It proves yet again that you are way above the rest of the family and a genuinely generous spirit.
You will always be the potential target because you are the one they feel has to be broken, that is a testament to your strength but a few more reactions like that and they may start to leave you alone. There will be no point them throwing a ball at you if you are not there to catch it. If you are there and they ‘throw’ something at you keep pretending you haven’t noticed. After a while you might let it wash over you but in the meantime don’t let them see any reaction even if it tears your insides up. Your husband is there to talk you and share it with to help you get over it.
It was so nice of him to post and I personally would love to hear what advice he would give to others helping someone cope with a psychopath in their life.

I’ve been following Segaya’s therapy and the one with the stream worked for me and I had a lovely night’s sleep. I think her posts explaining the relaxation techniques should go in the resources section so we need to think of a title. Maybe Segaya will give them a better name than relaxation techniques to give a proper description.

I look forward to hearing more about your progression it’s a work in progress.

Regards
Jan

Hello Jan, Lady Crown, Sapphira and Dianne,

Jan to answer your question first; Dianne gave the suggestion to name it; Discovery and healing. It's fine by me. Only the first part is named relaxation because it's a first step to make. If somebody is not able to be relaxed in that way the rest of it is so very hard to do.
I am so pleased the stream helpt you to sleep!!!! I get a lot of enthousiastic reactions on that one indeed.. Just keep doing it. Sometimes, not sleeping or having troubles with sleeping is a matter of being programmed that way. People almost fear going to bed , anxious for not sleeping again. This will take that fear away and will re-program the mind, and that surely will help. if not than it is so nice to give this as a kind of present to yourself.....


Lady Crown... I am so impressed by your story!!!
Ofcourse we love to hear from you even when it is just a small posting just to let us know you are still out there,but it's oke if you don't have the possibility to write.We know you are there somewhere and that is giving us the same strenght as it gives you to know we are here!!!

I have to tell you something.

I have to start wayback in time.
As you know already I didn't see my family for years and years. Now just one and a half year ago I discovered a nice is living straight agross my house. If I want to I can see right into her living room. Of all the places there are to life...she lives agross the street. unbelieveble isn'it!!!I never met her and didn't know she was my nice.
We spend some time together and I worked with her for she is in pain also. At one day I came to see how she was doing and noticed that her attitude was different.. The next time she was ignoring me...and the time after that again... So I just stopped going over to see her.
We still greeted each other when passing on the street but she was not very enthousiastic doing so.
Now, last week when I went out to do my weekly shoppings I saw her at the supermarket.... and she saw me. Turned her head the other way as if she didn't notice me...never one wrong word is said, nothing happend..Anyway...If this would have happend some time ago I would have gone up to her and asked her straight out what is the matter, what is wrong..or more likely; what did I do wrong to deserve this treatment... Or I would have gotten angry and ask her that way who she was thinking she is.....
But not after reading how you are coping with these kind of situations....
So, I just see what was happening, notice her turning her head the other way and wondered how people can be that way and went on with what I was doing in the first place; shopping!
I could let go without anger, remorse or be disappoited by her reaction.
this was such a victory for me!!! Thank you for your wise and rich lessons!!

I am so sorry you are in such pain for such a longtime already. I use to have a lot of pain also..this was a constant pain which means you get used to it. The pain that comes and goes is so scary. I know I have been there also..
It's so terrible you are so much on your own in times of need. Can't you trade places with my nice..That way I can just walk over to your place and try to comfort you...

What a remarkable story about the album....You told us before you are buzy with the genealogy of your family....do you'r mother and brother know this? Is this the reason they don't want you to have it?..is there something in there that they don't want you to know or remember again????
Or is it just because they know you want it and this is the way for them to hurt you again?
Jan is right (in my case anyway) when saying to go on not reacting on any of this. My son does the same thing and I ignore him completely when doing so. Another thing I learned is not letting him know what I like or not, whom I liked or not, what i thought I needed and so one. That way he lost his grip on me and couldn't hurt me so much anymore.
So all things in the house that he knew of were of value to me I hide away ..For him; it just wasn't there anymore!!! It was gone and if he asked me about it I told him I gave it away or I broke it while cleaning it. This gave me a lot of rest. I just hide it somewhere he couldn't find it, indeed gave it away, or brought it to a friends house for the time being.
After I got him out of my house I put the things back again.
People I liked, I told the situation and asked them to cooperated and not contact me at times he was at home. they didn't anymore. Some 'friends' I lost this way but the good ones are still around. I learned also, just like you, not to show any emotions. that was very hard for me to do, but I wasn't in a save enviorment when he was around and he used it in a very agressive way against me. I had to hide my feelings so I wouldn't be an easy target for him.
In time he lost his grip on me completely and I was in the position of the elder again. I deside want is to happen, what needs to be done what is oke and what is not!
Now, when he enters my house there is never to tell how it will end. sometimes he is so brutal that I order him to leave with in a few minutes. Sometimes it takes half an hour and sometime, but very rarely, it takes an hour... not longer. never longer. And he allways comes back! Maybe I see him ones a year or maybe twice ...

I speak to him on the phone last week; he called me a victim because of what happend with his father almost 25 years ago... I laught and asked if he is living in the passed still.. he didn't react anymore.. He was telling also he was troubled about how people in relationships fight with eachother all the time and discribed his own relationship with his girlfriend in detail... I confronted him with this fact; No, that is different because....yeah ppff!!!
So I ended the conversation and just hang the phone. it gets easier every time....

Why am I telling this?
Because so many things has changed in me since I read your posting on how and why you do what you do.
before I did the same thing as always....It seemed that way... The big difference is that before I was frustrated and from being frustrated I did this... so it was a reaction on his behavior that trickered something inside me.
Now I don't react on frustration anymore .It still seems the same reaction from the outside..But I read you posting on this many times and learned and learned from it..Bit by bit trying to undertand deeply what you mean and how you do it.. And I know now and can put it in practice indeed...So there is peace inside me when something like this happens and I react from this peace not from frustration anymore!!
I know he will not and can not change whom he is. I am the one who has to change. That is what I have learned from you and I am greatfull for you lessons . You told it so clear and so completely in my eyes that I can realy do something with it and better my life!

I hope the pain will stay away for a very long time and will forget about you completely!
Agian, if there is something we can do to make things easier for you -please tell us.
Sometimes pain can be healed with the topic I am writting ( There is a way out ..it called for now)
I will write a special one for pain relieve and healing in general, but give me some time to build things up to that point.
I will try to hurry with writing so you can use it!
Lots of love and you are in my thoughts constantly; Segaya