>>He told me I was just jealous of his personality. Can you believe that<<

Betterway, think opposite in every thing they say. He was jealous of your personality. They tell you what they are thinking, feeling and doing, if you know how to decipher their code. He was using projection.

Betrayed.

Do you all agree that somehow these PS had a bad reputation somewhere in one of their spheres? Next time, I think I am going to question his surrounding. Just kidding! But I will for sure be more careful to what people will say.

>>I am scared. I am not sure if I will ever feel able or ready to have another relationship. My self confidence and self esteem is low when it comes to these types of personal relationships. The business relationships and female friend relationships I can do; it's the male/female ones that scare me and make me feel small<<

(((Neverthesame))) I know you are scared. We are all scared. But the chances of us running into another fullfledged P are slim. You know enough now to recognize the danger signals. P's show themselves early in a relationship, they can't help themselves. I trust and believe in you that you would run at the first sign of trouble.

Maybe, it is just too soon for you, to think about a relationship right now. I know for myself, I'm not ready.


Betrayed.

>>The one that get hooked are us with a nebulous past because we are persistent and we have developed a higher tolerance to problems than others. We always had to do more work to get what we wanted therefore we don t see the difficult as an obstacle.<<

Yes, we have a high tolerance to problems than others. I really liked what you said that we had to do more work to get what we wanted therefore we didn't see the difficult as an obstacle. In one way it is an admirable quality, but in another it could be our downfall in a relationship with a P., following the carrot.....

Betrayed.

>>As we give the Ps space to operate, they elaborate their scheme/their carrot and us, as the carrot seem to be bigger,we are cuaght in the illusion that the carrot is closer and all seem to be worth the try.<<

Okay, im full of questions lately. But you guys are so helpful. Heres one more. When you say they elaborate there schemes. Do you belive that all this is planned, or is the P. so sick that he doesn't even realize half of what he is doing? Could he have been so evil, that every ounce of our friendship was based on the p. getting me hooked knowingly, so I would do anything for him. I told the P. that our whole friendship was a lie. He says it wasn't, that none of what he did with me was a lie. Yet I watch him build new friendships based on the same lie. I believe this P. really cares that our friendship is ending, but he is so sick he can't stop what he is doing.
betterway

I can only tell you from my experience that the P who targeted me, knew exactly what he was doing. It was all planned out. He plotted and planned every move. He knew he had screwed up at the end, when he leaned over my desk, and screamed, I should have f**ked you...... I'm not a faggot, I don't like young boys and I'm not after your daughter.

I had told him I had started dating someone and didn't want him coming over to my house anymore to have showers. I knew he was hurting me with teasing of romance, couldn't figure out why, but had no idea of the depth of his deceptions.

Enough said??

>>>I told the P. that our whole friendship was a lie. He says it wasn't, that none of what he did with me was a lie. Yet I watch him build new friendships based on the same lie.<<<< they have a different perception than us. for them there is nothing wrong with a lie.even a lie is actually pretty good thing to them. they are parasite they need people like us to help them survive.

we have to weight the bad against the good. just think about that everyday. and i do believe that zero contact is the only way to get out of it.

Hi to all

Every one of these posts have so much meaning to me. I spent a very long sleepless night last night thinking about all this. I have the sense of finding another part of the puzzle in this archelogical dig.

Here is a peice I discovered.

>>Then. . .when he did what narcissists do (didn't know that then). . .I paniced!<<

I have learned that narcissist are terrified of intimacy. They cannot sustain it. They withdraw. They avoid at all costs. They must keep the mystery going. Intimacy means you would get to know them and that they would then not be "special".

Scence one:
In the creation/beauty stage I sensed P's interest. I've shared how I began to become very dependant on his attention. What I was receiving was all that unconditional love (remember no passes, no overtures,just friendship), validation, praise and attention.

After a year or so I began to wonder. . .did P more than "like" me as a business friend. . .it seemed so.

I am JUST NOW DISCOVERING how family dynamics really work, so bear with me here.

In my history, no one loves me unconditionally. I even see in P's eyes he has an idea of who I am (idealization). My MO is to automatically begin to modify. This is an ingrained habit. A survivor skill carried over from growing up with my mother. I was always watching carefully for her to tense up, frown, do a behavior or say something to start her to rage. Modification was the only way to survive in my family of orgin. Honesty was not encouraged or fostered. Honesty of thoughts and feelings could bring distruction for days. Until you were throughly punished for having that "bad thought" or expressing a bad feeling. That was wrong. Wrong. Wrong. My mother could sustain rage on one subject for hours. . .sometimes days.

I've learned recently about this dynamic. Mother offloaded all her shame, guilt and bad feelings onto me. It was also implied in so many words I was like the ugly duckling and not very smart. School could have been a refuge for me but instead it was just another place for me to face more of what I received at home. I was conditioned to underacheive so others could look good and yet tormented when I did. Reportcard time was a nightmare. Whenever called upon in class to recite orally, I always froze then started shaking. I could never think or ever recall an answer. When I started developing my mom made fun of my developing body. All my girlfriends were starting to wear bras and I wanted to be like them. That got a huge laugh in front of my aunts and uncles. I was so ashamed and embarrassed.

My father was 35 years older than my mother and everyone thought he was my grandpa. Then we had to call him a pet name given him by our mother. We couldn't even call him dad. My home was not a place where I ever wanted to bring my friends. EVER. I never dated any "cool" guys as I was to embarrassed to bring them to my home.

So. . .I said all that to say this. . .

l began to see in P#2 that my dream of true love could possibly come true. A dream I never believed would ever be true for me. I began setting MY stage.

I read something somewhere once, that every love relationship we enter into is an opportunity to heal
old childhood wounds. I am learning that old history plays a big part in the P deal ( I speak for myself here).

Moving along.
Scene two:
It started working like this. I'm holding a mirror for P, P is holding a mirror for me. I'm thinking I have actually a found my "soul mate". Someone who understands me, appreciates me. He doesn't say so, but he acts like he loves me. Sometimes, I see it in his eyes. He is so nice. Now. . . I don't want to lose it! NO,no,NO. I'm to be very careful and work very hard to made sure everything is perfect. Everything that is humanly possible for me to ensure that this time . . .it won't fall apart. No. . .I'll do whatever it takes. Modify in any way.

I begin creating my side of it. Getting everything in place. . .just in case he asks. All the old tapes (from mother) were playing. I didn't realize it then, but, I made sure I had every base covered. This time I would not fail. I would be everything he wanted me to be. This time it would be perfect. No margins for failure.

When he finally did ask. . .the stage was set. I was ready. . . as perfect as I knew how to be.

So. . . then. . .we come together.

Understand. . .this is SO over the top for me. Never been in this place before. Very insecure. Very nervous when it's all over. Every insecurity came up the following day. Then (now I see appropriately for a P) I didn't hear one word. . .until LATE that next night. By then I was a basket case. And I knew in my gut the beginning of the end had just begun.

Scene three:
Then distruction. . .all backward from there to now.

First reaction shock. . .panic! What happened! What did I do wrong?!!! Where did I miss it?!!! What is wrong with me?!!!! Did I do something wrong?!!!!! Did I act wrong?!!! Say something wrong???? What happened??? Why isn't he calling??? I just did something so out of character, so over the top and YOU"VE DISAPPEARED. Oh. . .here you are. . .but your'e not talking. I ask to talk. . .P says there is nothing to talk about. . .I'm doomed. . .crushed. . . a failure. . .I did it again. . .and now I'm bonded. . . trauma bonded.

In my panic I make every mistake. . .I am full of fear. . .panic. . .disbelief. . .shock. . .shock. . . shock. I become the biggest fool. I shake. . .I stammer. . .I stutter. . .I'm an actress now. . .trying to act like "everythings fine".

I begin falling in the abyss.
But, I keep trying to fix it. It had to be me. .

I read Malignant Love by Sam V that a P never would fall for a strong, self assured, self confident woman. Something that I considered myself to be. But see all the insecurity in my story? All the fear? The anticipation and expectation of a child. Looking at my own story helps me see how desperate and needy I was. I didn't "act that our per se" but P's can spot it They have an internal radar that can pick this out in a crowd. (Lucky me)! LOL

I am probably saying the same things over and over now. I see I am digging around in old childhood wounds but taking the time right now to sort it out and look at it to find clues to my current choices and behavior will free me to move forward. I have been stuck for a very long time. . .without much of a CLUE.

GOD BLESS YOU MY FRIENDS. Your patience and willingness to share and feedback are a God send to me. I owe so much to so many. . .

With great love. .
finished

One more thing.

>I did it again. . .and now I'm bonded. . . trauma bonded<

The bonding was almost like a triple header. Maybe more like a grand slam. ALL - ALL the old childhood tramuas resurfaced but I was unaware of that then.

The last episode with P#2 was the grand slammer. It almost took me out.

This tramua opened up memories I have repressed for decades. Thankfully there was a forum here. . .that has kept me grounded in reality. As I read and related with the posts, I felt like I might have a clue or some answers to this personality that has always been in my life.

What has surfaced this week (something I have denied forever) is this great void I have in my life. I have posted before for my gratitude for my spiritual base. I have always know God loves me. I knew He wasn't like a P or wanted me treated like garbage. I had to sift through all this "family garbage" to retreive myself out of the garbage can.

Oh. . .I'm SOOOOO grateful for you all!!
So very grateful.
finished

Finished, I hope you are discovering a lot. I have at many moment in my life and this week in particular i somehow do believe I have learned just by hearing similar stories. I actually have read tons of books in the last months but hearing the same stories is so more helpful. I feel better eversince i have discovered this discussion forum. I have very similar stories. I have some intimacy problems as well. I was hanging in there with that relationship hoping for more and having the same thought as you. It is funny, but at first my friends were telling me : " well he is playing with you but when i would say what he was telling me, my friend started to believe that he was interested but for who knows what reasons he was delaying his involvement." At one point, even all my friends thought he was indeed motivated to have something one day. I had the impression that it was one step ahead one step backward. Please remember that my friend the psychologist told me, the biggest human stupidity is to expect a different answer with the same behavior. They somehow thought that his behavior would change if I would behave differently. But now i know, it would have been the same no matter what, because they had plan the game way ahead.
what my psychologist friends tell me is that ok, now you know, how are you going to work to move on. it takes time to heal, it takes time to accept. it s been 6 months i have cut the link, and i feel better. I feel fortunate that i have some very nice people around me, that probably don t understand, but they are normal and respectful. I can't believe that i have undermined them in the last months because i was so brainwashed by the P. I was starting to be pretty isolated like probably most of you, and i want to start being more social again meet again. something that is that no one really talks about that is absolutely true and in all books that i have read, is that what drive all p relationship/association is always power. that is, what rules all their primitive envies and their impulsion is always their thirst for POWER. so we all should believe strongly in our power that attracted those Ps. They saw without doubts power in us, whether it was physical, money, talent, cleverness, social milieu, intellectual milieu. through all of your stories, the ps, even the most vulgar one, came to us to take something out of us. it is a good and bad thing but for recovery we should try to remember what we good at. i spoke with my psychologist friend today, and i was telling her that i knew very well since 12 years how not to run in an obvious P because i had one of those( the disfunctional and delinquent one with drug and alcohol one). I told her that i felt really good today because i knew that my learning will complement my defective intuition for troubled men. If I can spot them like she does, I will spot them because I have learned about vulgar Ps and highly sophiscated Ps. Probably what is in between might be troubled. But i think I know enough ( like all of you, I am sure that you won t forget all you are reading when you are stunned by the similarities to your own experiences), and I will consult with friends in whatever suspiscious situations I encounter.

Like many others, I am scared to have other relationships, but i tell myself if there are no other relationship, that is fine. Alhtough i am in my thirties, it sounds better than to have troubled relationships. the consolation is that i feel we, in this discussion forum, have grown otherwise we would have been looking for information, and that is with no doubts a step ahead.