Hi Relly59!

You sound very upset and very caring about all the vulnerable people involved in this complicated family struggle. I felt an off note in the story based on my own experiences with a Psychopath - which could mean I'm projecting - where he would stoke me up to campaign for him and then I'd end up being the upset, worried one while he moved on, apparently innocently, with me taking the rap.

I wonder how healthy it is for your friend to have any contact with them, and how healthy it is for you to be so upset and involved. The grandparents seem well, happy,financially secure, enjoying their bingo and in each other's company. They are smart enough to see their daughter's manipulations and sell up to move away - yet they are playing favourites and pushing buttons by telling everyone their wealth will go mostly to their son, which must drive their daughter, your friend's mother, even crazier. Meanwhile, they know she knows her own daughter prefers them, which must make her even worse (whether or not it is justified). And they make sure the grandaughter is like the favourite 'daughter' rather than their own daughter, which blurs the boundaries between generations and makes your friend and her mother effectively compete. No wonder the mother cannot see a divorce from her husband means precisely that.

This family is very disturbed and riven with power struggles, it seems. Your friend and her mother are more like siblings fighting for spoils - I wonder if the greatgrandparent is the grandparents mother? If so, this is a four-generation row. Why would great grandparent not give authority to grandparents, rather than skip a generation? Why is this repeated in them skipping their own daughter to give it to her brother and daughter?

The allocation of the spoils is separating everyone in the family, it is incestuous because the normal boundaries are not observed. Brother is set against sister, daughter against mother and so on. Something is deeply off and no wonder you are concerned. It is perverse and possibly psychotic.

The question is whether this wrong can be righted by an outsider, as you are. Sometimes people who look crazy are being driven crazy by a Psychopath's behaviour. Not always. I would be wary of being placed opposite the friend's mother, if I were you. And I would question what was really at stake here between your friend and her mother. It may be that the lack of limits and boundaries in their lives could be bad for you, as it is for them. Imagine if another woman confronted you about your 27-year old daughter... and if your daughter encouraged her to do it.

The task of a 30 year old woman is to make her own life. Perhaps this is where your friend might focus her labour and energy.

I have sent her evrything I have written & the responses - but she is soo impacted by the years of abuse by her mother (who works in conjunction with her 2 step-sisters, who I believe may also be psychopathic like their mother) she doesn't want to 'go there'. As far as other friends go, she has very few she can talk to for support. I am her main support as we live in a rural area. From what I have seen and heard from all other family members, mom has resented her daughter from birth asshe left her first husband while pregnant with her, remarried 2 years later and had the other 2 girls. She has tried to destroy my friend in numerous ways ever since, luckily she had her grandparents to look after her when a child. I also suspect mom tried to "poison?" her (kill?) her as a small child. She suffered sever kidney problems but funnily enough, since staying with her grandparents fromthen on, nothing like that has happened since.... My friend is terrified of her mom - often can't talk about it even to me & gets upset & in tears - she has bought another car so her mom wont know what car she's driving - avoids going anywhere she might run into her, has kept her new job a secret so mom can't 'interfere' with that (as she has done in the past) gets her grandparents to visit her instead of her going to their place so mom doesn't see them together. The mom's brother is not a psychopath, he is a very quiet introverted type, who I believe is very aware of her behaviours and what she is capable of and stays as quiet as possible to avoid her wrath (clever man haha)although he has some medical problems and is not well either. As far as me being 'protective' of those I care about, I have always been like that & I know why - I am 'triggered' by bullies as my father was a violent man (probably a psychopath too)& I was the protector in my family and I suppose I still am. These days I try not to 'rescue' as much as I used to, but empower those close to me with information, love & support to cope with their own challenges in life, which is why I joined this forum, for information to pass on and it turned out to be very different from what I expected. Thank you for you time and comments.

I agree with you in a lot of areas there. It is very disfunctional in many ways as most families are - but the mom was estranged from the rest of the family for a few years and in the meantime she had sneakily gone behind everyones back and applied to a government department to take 'care & control' of her grandmothers (the great-grandmother of my friend) affairs as she was diagnosed with dementia at 94 y.o. The reason she got back in with the family is her own mother (my friends grandmother) was diagnosed with cancer and she wanted all her family dramas resolved before she passed away, which is understandable. That's the reaspn why they 'allowed' mom to 'look after' the greatgrandmother initially, as they didn't think they would be able to. That's when this whole business of mom leaving her husband & moving in with her parents thing started. She thought she could get control of their matters as well as she was terminal. That's when the moms campaign really started up again in earnest against her daughter (my friend) and we didn't understand why at first. Then I started wondering 'what if' and we slowly put it all together. Since then we have been advised this was a misdiagnosis and moms plans went out the window...Mom is living back with her husband that she just 'divorced'. The grandparents in this don't have a lot of cash, but are wealthy in assets. Once they became aware of what she was & was up to, that's when they changed their will, and they haven't told anyone else as they are concerned of her reaction if she found out. The brother is obviously afraid of her as he stated he wanted me to be on the will with him as executor to support & protect their wishes. It's not greed on the rest of the family's part - they have tried to encourage the grandparents to sell up everything so there would be no problems, but they don't want to as they built & collected all their lives and are reluctant to let it go. So everyone else is hostages to mom's devious games. I hope this makes things a bit clearer for you to understand the family dynamics here.

Hi Relly,
I can see why you expected something different.

There are too many questions left for me to respond on what you are telling. What is left for me to react on is probably not what you want to hear I am afraid!
Again I will go into the question of why do you ask so many questions for your friend???Somehow it seems odd I think.
You say you try to get out of the rescueing..There has to be a reason for that! Why doens't the same reason go for this friend?

Everybody has a learning school in this life..So does your friend. Trying to solve the problems someone else has, is in a way taking away those lessons. Question is if we are allowed to do so...!!!! This way we don't rescue but just get involved in such a way that we don't give the oppertunity for those people to learn what they have to learn and we take away the experience and the lessons they need later on in life...
I, and you, are not the ones who have to deside what will and will not, can and can not happen in someones live are we?...We are also not the ones who have to deside what has to happen for them, we can't make their choices and we can't make their decisions....

Every parent knows there will be a time to let go of their children for those kids have the right to make their own lives..This is not done easely and not done to hurt them,it is the only way for the human beings to become who they are suppost to be.
Taking their lessons away is in a way taking their lives away and keep control over them.
So dear Relly, as hard as it is... First when you will let go, your friend gets the oppertunity to make her own life what she wants it to be..Will she get hurt?...Than so be it!
This will go on until she herself will take action against it..You can't learn her lessons for her, You have to learn yours!
Take this from me..everything in life has it's meaning and there is nothing happening just for the fun of it! When she has enough of it she will do what she has to do...keeping her comforted by what you are doing is only prosponing that moment. So seen from that point of view there is a reason this is happening to her. There is already the BIGGER PLAN , if you know what I mean, She is taken care of already without interference from others who need and want to rescue her.....

Another possibility, and don't blame me for being straight with you this time....that you are not talking about a friend, but about what is happening to you.
When this is the case then please get forward because this way we only keep our questions and you will get no answers! And that, Relly means you will get no support..You see what I mean?
I hope you will understand what I mean to say...
Regards Segaya

Also I forgot to mention, yes the great grandmother in this is the mother of the grandmother, who is the mother of the 'MOM', who is the mother of my friend - yes four generations in this complicated family. The grandparents were not smart enough to see what their daughter (mom) was up to at first, but they do see it clearly now and are feeling guilty and wondering what they did wrong to cause her to be this way... They are in their 80's and are actually very sweet and naive and confused as to why anyone could be like this. It upsets them to know their daughter is a 'fruitcake' and have asked another family member to challenge her control of the greatgrandmother affairs when it comes up for review with the government agency as they aren't capable at their age and my friend doesn't want the responsibility as MOM would then have another issue to attack her with, so I don't blame her for not wanting to get involved, even though he loves & cares for her greatgrandmother dearly. She just wants to avoid her at all costs and just wants to live her life & enjoy her grandparents as that's all she has that she's close to. I may not be related by blood to this family, but I am sort of 'extended family' to these people & friends for quite a few years. I want to make this clear -I have no vested interests (regarding money) in this family - I am not in their will to receive anything, nor do I want anything.

No this is not happening to me - it is happening to a very dear & close friend who asked me to find out any information I could to help her - which I did and this is the response I got. I'm sorry, but this forum is not what I expected and has really not provided much advice except to 'stay away' from MOM. We already know that & do that as uch as possible. I was looking for intelligent insight and information not questions !!!
This might be ok for some who like to do a pseudo-psychology group session & discuss their 'feelings' here - that's not what I was asking for. I'm fairly ok with my 'personal development' in that area & am very aware of what 'triggers' me & what doesn't - I thought you would have noticed that when I said 'rescue' & 'triggered' - I have done quite a bit of personal work on myself which is why I picked up on what MOM was about - they haven''t & so didn't understand psychology /psychiatry at all, where as I have a little, which is why my friend asked me to look for information for her. I do understand 'LIFE' has it's lessons to be learned, which is why we are trying to 'learn' about this issue. Why do you keep telling me to let go? Is there a problem in asking for information and advice for a friend who has asked you to do that for them? I pass on the information I get so she can stand up for herself and do this for herself, so why are you asking me to stop? Why are you asking why I am concerned? Wouldn't anyone be concerned if they care about someone? I find this whole line of questioning very disturbing. I also wonder why I appear to be the suspect or manipulator or manipulated here? Trust me, I am not. I also am wondering why you keep 'pushing' for my friend to come on here and talk about her 'feelings' on this? Is there a voyueristic agenda here? What would that achieve? We all know how others feel when they are targeted & screwed over by assholes - hurt, upset, frightened, anxious, scared, betrayed, confused... the list is endless (similar to PTSD) and doesn't help her defend herself from her MOM - that's what we wanted, how to protect & defend from her schemes & plots and unfortunately you do not provide that here. She offloads to me about her feelings when she feels like talking about it. I listen, let her cry it out and offer love, support a hug & then we may have dinner & a glass of wine & time for her to process it all. Yes, I am human & I get angry that MOM is doing this and maybe that's what you're picking up, because I am as I would be if this was my own daughter & wanted to protect her from a nutter. I will say goodbye now and wish you all the best in the future with your forum with others. Thank you for your time and concerns, they are not necessary in this situation.

Hello Relly59

I am sorry you couldn't get the information and answers you were looking for, none of us are professionals so we can only offer suggestions to support you while you make sense of what is going on until you decide what you hope to do to change the situation. When I re-read your posts I didn't think you were asking specific questions that we could offer information about. The only way we could find out more about your friend's problem was to ask questions as it wasn't clear what she wanted and what we could offer.

I can state that we are not voyeuristic just that it would have helped us understand more cleary what your friend wanted to happen from her perspective. It is up to the people involved to decide whether they want to be told what to do or whether they just want to ask others if they are doing the right thing and need support to give them confidence to go ahead.

It seems from what you have now told us that the grandparents will situation has been taken care of by the brother so nothing that needs to be done there. Do I understand right that the mother has Power of Attorney over the great grandmother's estate and that the position is going to be reassessed? In the UK Power of Attorney can be administered by 2 people so if it is the same where you live then the brother could apply for joint Power of Attorney as joint signatory.

What I am unsure about is if your friend has changed her job and car and has the grandparents to visit her what more can she she do to avoid her mother? If she isn't concerned about inheriting anything then she has almost removed herself from the problem and all that is left is to break away emotionally and that is something only she can do.
If this woman is a psychopath then nothing will change her and no-one will be able to get through to her so the best advice for anyone dealing with a psychopath is get as far away from them as possible. They only cause misery for all who are involved with them.

I did pick up on your anger on your friend's behalf and she does seem to rely heavily on you but what does she expect you to do for her because she has already done all she can to remove herself from the situation?

I think what we also picked up on was that this problem seems to be causing you a lot of distress and maybe your friend is not as distressed as you but enjoying the attention she is getting from you because it makes you react to her. I do think that at the age of 30 your friend does have to decide for herself what she needs to do to get the peace of mind she is looking for...or is she really looking for peace of mind???? Perhaps she is so entrenched in her family dynamics that she doesn't think that removing herself emotionally is a possibility. This is why the members here are advising her to get away mentally as well as physically.

If I could just ask one more time -what is it your friend wants? You may not want to reply and I understand if you don't. I think we are all unclear what it is and that is why the members have been confused and couldn't offer any support, also none of us are able to deal with the legal aspect of this. In our defence you must have noticed all the members who have replied to you are saying the same things so are in agreement, maybe you are expecting us to say what is already in your mind to confirm what you feel rather than wanting to accept what we are all saying.

Maybe there are forums out there that can offer legal advice for your country if that is what you need and there may be some that offer sympathy but little else. We try to offer practical support and will be here to help if possible.

Regards
Jan

Segaya,

I agree with you there is something strange about these postings...hmm

I have a feeling you (relly59) play a much bigger role in the story, and yes i beleive that friendship is much more like sister hood, not easily abandoned...but then if you were as protective as you sound wouldnt you just say you were the victim and then relay the message to a friend that way?

I am trying not be slightly offended, but there are people in there forums that have been emotionally abused and we reach out to one another in trust and care for each others feelings. You seem to think that being semi insulting is fine here but its not, we just would like to guide you towards a remedy for your dilema. This forum is thereputic because so far its safe to be straight up and honest and you can tell it all and nobody is gonna judge you. So please dont be afraid to be real with us, we are kind of like a pillowy family here and provide a cusion of understanding that other people dont comprehend because they havent been through it...

Thank you Godsgrace....

Hello Relly59

I have edited my last post to you as I made the mistake of abbreviating Power of Attorney and the forum is set to correct some abbreviations. Sorry that it probably didn't make sense.

Jan