Tilly~

I have to deal w/psychopaths on a daily basis for over 2 decades and I'll soon be going on three. I'm sorry to hear that your daughter is psychopathic. I have a son and he isn't psychopathic yet. There is always a possibility (NPD) it could happen. I worry about it a lot. I feel that as he gets older his chances of leading a non pychopathic life increase each day. In my family psychopathy is genetic---Why I worry about it. I wish I didn't have to.

Please tell us more when you have time.

Thank you Jan,
I am recovering from a relationship with the last "psychopath" boyfriend. I left my psychopath husband many many years ago, however there is ongoing trauma in regards to the damage he has done. My story is long so I am only capable of telling "bits" at a time. Suffice it to say, I only realized in the last year that psychopathy is mainly genetic. Prior to this year, I had firmly believed that psychopaths were a result of a brutal childhood. I believed this because my parents and my brother were violent psychopaths and to "justify" it ( i.e. to be able to survive it), I determined very young that they all had come from brutal childhoods and they didn't know any better, ( in regards to my brother I was in denial).


I then became the classic case of "marrying" the same type as my parents. He was the most brutal psychopath I have ever met.

When I finally left him, I had not "got the lesson". I still believed psychopaths were the outcome of a brutal childhood. He said that he had had a "brutal childhood" . It is only in retrospect that I realized this was probably untrue. Anyway, I ended up in intimate relationships with psychopaths over my life.

It was the ending of the last psychopath relationship that I finally read Dr. Hares Book and began studying psychopaths properly. Until that date I had "searched everywhere" but I had only found Sam Vanknin's book and some shallow interpretations of what psychopathy is.

When I realized it could also be genetic I had my "uh HUH!" moment with my daughter. I have gone "no contact" with her and it is hurting me badly. Still, I know it would hurt me worse in the long run, if I continued to stay in denial. But I am not 100% sure yet whether to stay "no contact" as I still love the "fantasy empathetic person" of her that I have had all my life. Still, I know now that I gave her everything in love and opportunity and she is the female version of her father, only not yet that evil. She has had a charmed upbringing, so it must be mostly genetic.

Everything suddenly made sense. It was the missing piece in the jig-saw for me. I still wish I was wrong. Everyday I hope "please let me be wrong" and "maybe I am wrong". I also have a middle son ( I have three children), and I think to myself, "maybe he is one too" as I never hear from him. But I am not up to coping with that reality yet. I want to stay in denial until I have dealt with the reality of losing my oldest daughter.

My youngest son is very close to me. But he had a different father. His father was an extreme narcissist but not a psychopath. There I go, minimising it again! His father was violent too and a marijuana addict. He also was probably a low level psychopath, but compared with my husband and others he was not as bad.

It has been a long, long journey. And I am so glad to have found your site, as I really like to discuss psychopathy and stay in touch with new developments and I have huge admiration for Dr. Hares work.

Thank you again. I am glad I have found you.

I have one close "email" friend who understands psychopathy and understand and supports me and I her. I will tell her about this site. It is great to find your site. It is a relief.

The more people we can awaken to the truth of psychopathy the better our society will become, and the less devastation will be experience.
At present, I tend to disagree with my friend. She says that until you experience the psychopath, you just can't "get it".

Maybe we can change that, I hope so.

Tilly.

I try to remain positive as much as possible. Even if you are aware of the psychopaths in your family, significant others and even ones we meet daily/work w/ etc...this only helps reduce the amount of damage they can cause you. They will cause you problems. You have to watch them. This has just been my personal experience w/them.

To all of you who have pyschopathic kids,

Watch the movie "Bad Seed" and "The Good Son". You are not responsible for this hateful individual. You are not responsible for another person's choices. They chose to be evil because they get off on it and it makes them feel powerful and they are lazy so they look for an easy out. They will become prostitutes or get money from you or will steal or trick someone or will plan to kill somone off for insurance money.


I grew up with a sadistic psychopathic sister and a sadistic psychopathic father. They don't really feel anything and only fake emotional responses to get some sort of control.

They have no guilt. They take and use and hate.

Stay away from them.

Hello Emily

I have watched the movie and it's a very good portrayal of a child psychopath. Primarily it shows how parents are in denial and the frustration of others who can see what the psychopath is doing but no-one believes them. Whoever wrote it certainly knows what a fledgling psychopath is.

Unfortunately parents cannot abandon their child until something happens and the child is taken away from them or they are old enough to leave home. We were fortunate that my partner's son made his own decision at age 14 to go back to his personality disordered mother, not many people will have such a convenient option.

I do agree that these people should be avoided at all costs because of the damage they have done and will continue to do as they will never change, it is obvious how hurt and angry you are still. Could you tell us a little more about your life with your sister and father and your relationship with your mother.

Many people who are married to a psychopath find it incredibly hard to get away especially if there are children involved as often courts insist that both parents have access or visitation rights. Many are scared for the safety of their children but cannot fight the legal decisions made.

Did you find it difficult to keep away from your family?

Regards
Jan

Hello, Tilly - and welcome!

I'm afraid that I have to agree with your friend. In my experience, the only people who understand psychopathic behavior are those who have had the misfortune to have dealt with a psychopath "up close and personal." And they get it right away!

Most folks just nod and mutter some platitude, "Too bad the marriage didn't work out," "Some guys are like that," or some such nonsense.

It's just so difficult to understand that there is nothing we can do to change them! Even saying they are "sick" doesn't cut it, because that implies a possibility of them "getting better." Which ain't happening.

Best,
Melissa

I have had blinders on for a long time. So many things I just marked off as children, then as teens, and then as young adult. My son, who is 35 now, has viciously tore me down so many times. He has me looking back to see what have I done to bring him this much hatred for me. "Mom, don't you think I have feelings?", "Mom,be on my side for a change",etc. He has cornered me so many times and told me things that are scary and then tells me I can't tell anyone. He calls me in a panic, "Mom, Mom, Mom.....". I start shaking. He doesn't ever listen to anything I tell him, but as soon as his "house of cards" (as I call it)falls down, I am the one he calls to fix it. But, it has to be fixed the way he wants it fixed. He just wants to use my resources, honesty, my love for him and whatever else I can do for him. He forgets everything anyone has done for him the moment it is over. He never forgets even the smallest of transgressions that anyone has ever done to him (even just in his mind). He is forever in your space, with his charming smile, but when it doesn't go as he wants it to, then this vicious, hateful bully takes over. I am shaking too bad to go on right now. But it does feel good to put this out there perhaps to someone else who knows how I feel.

Hi Little Deb, it must be a parents worst nightmare to come to this realization. When you are comfortable I know from our members that it does help to talk about it even in short parts when you can express how you feel. It must feel horrible to face this and we are here for you to listen to your story.

It is a typical pattern for a Psychopath to always view themselves as a victim in their own minds. Always remember that you did nothing wrong, he is an adult. The blame game is one of the best tools in their kits of abuse to get their way.

Di

Thanks Dianne,

Right now I have backed away from my son because of an incident that happened a couple of weeks ago. That is what I do, but my heart still aches for my son, I love him. I hurt when I feel like he is hurting and when wrongs are done to him. Time goes on and then the same cycle will happen again, only this time I will know what I am dealing with. Very little contact, possible, not contact, very unlikely. I also have a brother who may also have this same thing as my son. Yes,it is hard to actually admit to, but I am working on that and looking with wide open eyes. Looking at several others in my life with different eyes. But, my son...This is on the scary side.

I left his father when he was 12 and his sister was 8. Their father was a very active alcholic and getting worse every day. He almost killed us a few times (accidentally)and I had to get my children and myself out of there.

I have it on film where it tied up a make shift swing and coaxed his sister on it and started laughing a little too soon before the swing broke. He has coaxed or should I say bullied her into lots of things. He used to stand up against her and look down at her in a very intimidating way. He made contracts with her to clean his room, etc. and got her to sign them and had clauses like: giving him a two week notice without getting paid. He always added other things to her list of things to do. I would tell her time and time again not to sign (thinking that this was just a big brother trick) but, still she would. One time, he came in the living room with his little sister and put a black garbage bag over her head and started duct taping her neck. As I was getting up to rescue her he opened the airway in the bag and had her clean out the wood stove (the bag thus protecting her from getting dirty). I know this was for effect but didn't at the time realize that it was for my reaction.

He grew up to be very good looking, blond hair, piercing blue eyes, 6'2 and a smile that would melt your heart. He works in the construction field and one of his bosses told me that women would come out and take pictures of him. That he had never seen anything like it.

The story I would like to share is that he had a child at 18 years old. He seemed thrilled. When his son was born, he told me that he didn't know that you could love something that much. I believed that and I guess that is one of the reason's I haven't put two and two together, because I always believed that he could love.

Anyway, with out giving a lot of detail. The mother and him broke up and soon she got mad and took the baby away from him, telling him that he would never see the child again. My son seemed devistated. He told me of laying in a field just to see his son when she picked him up....

The day before the custody hearing, he kidnapped the mother. My world changed forever. I thought that he just snapped and that when he did he reacted as his father had indicated not as I was telling him. The Sunday after my son was arrested, I was told that he tried to commit suiside and my legs fell out from under me...a few weeks later I got to see him (behind glass)in solitary. I told him never to do that again and he winked at me and smiled, like it was all a game.

He was sentenced and first went to a florida prison. I went to go see him. This waa the first time I had been able to touch him in a year. His face was contorted, his eyes were wrong and it took about 20 minutes before I saw a little of my son in his face.

When my son did finally get out of prison, my 12 year old step daughter wanted to meet him and was a little miffed that he had never written her back. But, when she saw him she said "how can anyone stay mad at him?"

My son has been out for a few years now and my grandson who was 15 months old when this happened is now 15 years old.

Since my son has been out, it has been like he lives on the edge of a well of the law and when he falls in he expects me to get him out. I have told him that I will not get him out again and then he was in jail the next week and was very angry because I didn't get him out (tough love is hard enough without looking back at what I was standing up against). Anything that has ever been said is taken out of context and used against anyone. He has written (and used my father and step mom to do the delivery)horrible letters to the family because he felt he was wronged. One time I told him that I had nothing to do with what happened and his responce, "I find it very hard to believe that you knew nothing about it."

I have felt that my son has mental issues, and have even went to a support group I found. Some of the things he does look like different things (panic attacks, etc) and his paternal grandmother has been diagnosed with some of them. My brother, shows some symptems. But, the vicious reactions my son has if someone doesn't do what he wants them to do is very, very scary. I am afraid of him, I believe that he could hurt me.

What happened the other day had to do with seeing his son, me trying to set it up(yes, I felt sorry for him, his wife (subject) said that he cried about not seeing his son), his son not wanting to see him and when I let my son know this, it wasn't "Thanks Mom for trying", It was you have always been a horrible mother......, his wife texted me hateful things, he texted me hateful, vicious things.....I was broken, yet again.

As much as I love my son, I don't want to keep going through this, over and over and over. My thoughts about my children getting along, well that isn't going to happen. My son, will soften and my heart will hurt for him and the cycle will happen again. He is attached and I don't know if I can cut that part of me out and not ever have contact. It is such a double edged sword.

Yesterday my daughter came by to pick up her son and I contimplated letting her know about the information that I had found out about socipaths and psychopaths. As I was looking up the marked site, she asked me if I had talked to Wayne (not real name) and I showed her the checklist and questions. She said that yes it all sounded just like Wayne. She did pause on the no love part, because she said that he loved his son. I question that now. Because he was born to Wayne, does that make him his property? This still puzzles me? But anyway, I asked my daughter about her cat and that I knew that Wayne threw the cat up in the tree as far as he could but did he do other things? She said yes, he put the cat in the freezer and microwave and everytime the cat heard Wayne come in the house he would escape out of the window.

I asked her about the garbage bag incident and she said that he did it to see both of our reactions. I asked her how she felt at that time, whether she knew what he was going to do? She said that she didn't really remember, but she did remember waking up in the shower, in a box that Wayne had duct taped shut.

Now, I have many many memories flooding back of things that Wayne has done. His eyes how much hate I saw in them, time and time again. How did I not see, especially when he was younger. I wonder how many things he did to his little sister that I didn't know about or just didn't see.

As my daughter was leaving, with tears in her eyes, she said that she really would like to have a brother.