Mindy

Even Sam recommends learn all you can as fast as you can, run, vanish and disengage. (no contact). These people are dangerous to our health.

Here is a thought I had this morning (in reference to the information I posted from Sam V). I was thinking about how I have been learning about all this, a little at a time and how the information comes just when I'm ready for it.

I personally found it shocking to come to the realization that there are really evil people like this out in our world. I really shouldn't be such a surprise considering how our world is right now, but I had that Pollyanna approach that Sam talks about. As I reflected this morning I thought I could not have accepted that concept when I first came on here four months ago. But now I see how dangerous it is to look at the world and everybody through "rose colored glasses". For myself, I will continue to educate myself because the more I know, the more aware I will be. I will recognize those "red flags" for what they are. Something to STOP AND PAY ATTENTION TO, instead of justifying and rationalizing someone elses bad or bizarre behavior. I think I had an exaggerated sense that somehow I had enough love to change a situation. Now, I know. There is not enough love in the world for a human being to change a N or a P. Only God can change them Mindy.

One of my major character defects has been hiding my head in the sand, not dealing with this kind of stuff, hoping it will resolve itself on it's own. I avoided conflict and was so full of fear. That was the only feeling I actually knew. I was afraid of what I would find if I kept digging. No more. Knowledge is power. And yes, it is difficult to read. post and try to sort through all the ****. But I know for me, "the only way out is through". God will give us the strength if we are serious.

>>Have you read Malignant Self love, Narcissim Revisited? I am wondering if it would be more harmfull or helpfull for me to read it. I am tempted to just stop learning anymore now that I know what he is. I am scared to go deeper.<<

I read it on the web site. It was then I realized P#2 was am N. Had so so many of the character traits. As far as being scared, the information is nothing to be scared of. In my opinion and in my life the ignorance has been worse. I kept sticking around hoping things would magically someday change.

Remember. . .even Sam himself says N's are dangerous to your health. Would it be any different if you were doing something physically harmful? You would learn why and gain knowledge why. . .the more you knew. . .the more it would help you. Go at your own pace. It is overwhelming at the beginning. I found myself dreaming about this stuff. It was very intense in the beginning. It is very hard for the human brain to wrap itself around this kind of information. It sometimes seemed more than I could bear. To come to the reality and acceptance was very, very difficult. Now I know for certain sure that this exists and I'm aware when P behavior pops up. It is protection.

Take good care. . .have a great day Mindy! And as Betterway says a P free day. . .:-)

Mindy,
I only have a couple minutes, but I want to give you support and encouragement to keep learning all you can. I agree with everything finished said. I had to take off from learning for a couple days at a time. But I always found myself wanting to come back to learn more. Healing is a process and will take time.

Just this week I met a person whose behavior reminds me of the P. The things he says the games he plays. I tell myself Im just being paranoid after what I have been through. Maybe I am, but more likely not. All I know is if someones behavior is a red flag I have to take notice and watch my step. I will not reveal anything about myself that can be used against me. I can't run and hide from this person, as I will see him on a regular basis through my job (my new job). I feel some power now in my life. I can open my eyes wide and be more aware of things now.

Bye for now,
betterway

Betterway, >>>I will not reveal anything about myself that can be used against me. I can't run and hide from this person, as I will see him on a regular basis through my job (my new job). I feel some power now in my life. I can open my eyes wide and be more aware of things now.<<<
I think that you are right about that one, being paranoid is probably what others that don't know would say, but I think you are just applying knowledge on the field. And to understand that there is such a kind of person, that is great and to limit what you reveal of yourself is best.

Betterway

>>I tell myself Im just being paranoid after what I have been through. Maybe I am, but more likely not. All I know is if someones behavior is a red flag I have to take notice and watch my step.<<

I consider that awareness . . .and for me now. . .it means trusting my instincts. With the knowledge we have gained, we have a "barometer" to "check things out". . .and proceed with caution.

I'm so grateful to you all, my forum friends. . .wishing all a great Valentines day!
With love :-)
finished

>>

Thank you Hopefull & finished, for your support. I was in a pretty good space this morning. Wow, what a P. can do to a day. I had to go to my old office today to finalize one of my old files. And of course the P. was there. The P. gave me crap because I went directly to the boss without saying hi or acknowledging him. Unfortunately I reacted with some meaness. Then he denied ever telling me something. I told him I needed to leave and he said "Oh, it's all in your head". How many times have I heard that one. I bet he wishes it was all in my head.

He made me so mad. All the anger I have worked so hard to let go of came back, in an instance. Some of my day was wasted on obsession. I have been fighting the urge to call him and say one more thing that I just "know" he needs to hear. But I know that it is absolutely useless to communicate with the P. He will twist everything around.

It is easier for him to devalue me and to go to extremes valuing his new target. That poor girl is so clueless. Blinded by it all. I suspect she is going to leave my old office and follow the P. to a new office. I am angry because he was going to try to get me to go with him to his new office, and he has now switched gears towards someone else. That is so typical. I shouldn't even be mad, I don't want to go with him to his new office. However, it is still my feelings getting all caught up in all the P. crap. I still feel rejection, and devaluation from the P.

What is even more bizzare is to the owner and his wife at my old office, he acts so wonderful, and behind there backs he is planning to leave and take some of their salespeople from the office with him.

Okay, NO CONTACT, NO CONTACT, NO CONTACT. I understand it even more and more and more.

I am so happy you all are here. You are all truly my friends. I hope you all have a P. free life, eventually!!! I know I want to. I am also so happy for the support we give each other through the very hard process of making that NO CONTACT stuff work for us. I feel support all through the healing process no matter where I am in recovery, and that is so very important.

HAPPY VALENTINES DAY!!
betterway

Betterway,

You said that you hope we will have a life with no P. I think that my understanding is that we will all have more of those, they are all around but we will have the force to turn the corner faster this time. Don't you think? I have been completely without a P for someitmes now, but this week I felt depressed, I guess I had so much encouragement in a way from the P ( It was all false), and now I feel I have lost the direction, I am off the path.I need change but where to start.
I am gratefull for all your posts. Best wishes for this day.

Get this. . .

This morning I somehow missed P#2 phone call. It showed up on my caller ID on missed call menu. My heart started beating wildly. I remembered the last time I went to lunch with him was last Valentines Day and I began to think maybe that was what he was calling me for. About an hour later, I called back (yes, I know, I did). I think I have mentioned before, if I don't answer when I return a call the HE dosen't answer me. I left a message on his voice mail (yes, I did ignore my own no contact rule). I found myself "thinking" . . . .it's Valentines Day, he wants to see me, take me to lunch.. . on and on. . .ad nausaum. I thought about it all day. The wishful thinking syndrome. I mean why call me today of all days. Well...then he called me back again when I was at a job interview and had my phone on silent. When I called back. . .no answer. God was watching over me today. But the battle has been going on in my mind. Glad we can be honest here. My emotions were going wild. Thank God we never made CONTACT!

Whew. . .!!!
finished

hopefull,
>>You said that you hope we will have a life with no P. I think that my understanding is that we will all have more of those<<

A life free of P. obsession and control is my hope.

>>I have been completely without a P for someitmes now, but this week I felt depressed, I guess I had so much encouragement in a way from the P ( It was all false), and now I feel I have lost the direction, I am off the path.I need change but where to start.<<

I understand so so much what you are saying/feeling. I get depressed too at times and feel so blah. The P. made the "hook" phase last a couple years, guess he wanted to make sure he had me good. I was happy. There was so much excitement and positive encouragement in my life during that time. Now when I look at it the P. was addicted to drama and created alot of it. For the last 1 1/2 yrs, the deevaluation phase, the friendship with the P. was a roller coaster ride. I would start "no contact" then give in the pain was too much. I wanted to be happy and felt only the P. could make me that happy. I am looking for a new path (a betterway)also. The heartache of trying to make since of the P's world about destroyed me. The P.told me that last year that there was nothing he could do to make things right. How right he is. The trust has been broken and the betrayal too deep. Even if I went back to the P's world it would never be right.

hopefull, keep moving in the direction you want to go, even if it is itty bitty steps. We will make it. We will find inner peace again.

betterway

Betterway,

Thanks for your post. I have the impression that it is as if I have been in a cult ( although I haven't been). But I believe in P's philosophy, which had a tremendous influence on professional practice. And now, the roots of that philosophy is rotten, right?, because the P was at the root. So I have to re-oriented myself. Which is actually weird. I am basically tossing my past year research by disguss. And I too, had that encouragement, that attention and felt so great for the last 2 years.

I'll pick up. It's not easy. I am glad that you have changed job. Good luck! There will be somethings in the future. I feel that I have to force myself to do things eventhough I don't completely believe in, so something will emerge.

Thanks so much for both of your responses. Your right about the knowledge being power. I wish I new how to apply the no contact rule with children involved. I have to have no fear of losing childsupport and no fear of him killing me. When he calls, I find myself trying not to push his buttons. He always wants to call and tell me about his day and talk about sex and instead of hanging up on him I listen, I don't respond at all I just listen. It's weird he can talk for an hour on 10 different things without me saying a word, really! I am afraid if I hang up on him or am rude to him, I won't see the childsupport and or he will hate me so much that he will hurt me. Oh my gosh, I just realized that that is fueling his Narcissitic supply!! Then he wants to have sex with me all the time. Gee, I wonder why?

His girlfriend is a nightmare, she hates me so much and just tonight during visitation refused to look at me, pretended like I wasn't there. I had to ask her a question and she said, "I am not allowed to talk to you" and wouldn't even look at me while saying it. I got upset and said "you don't know anything". Then she told me that she is charging me for the time I assulted her, I have never assulted her!!! In fact the time she was reffering to, N assulted me right infront of her. Now she is saying he did it to protect her from me because I was assulting her! I have never come close to laying a finger on her! In fact the reason why he assulted me was because I started to tell her about the tape recording I had. And the only reason I wanted to tell her was because I was so sick of her yelling at me that I am phsyco. So, right when I said that "you need to hear a tape I have of N trying to have phone sex with me last week" - he picked me up and through me accross the parking lot. She still doesn't know why he did that, I don't think she understood what I was saying, but N did and he didn't want her to hear it. Well, now she is defending him to police by saying that I was assulting her and he was protecting her! And she is accusing me of this to my face like she actually believes this! If she only knew the truth!!! You know it is just sick and twisted. Try telling all of this to the police! Well, I had to and I don't know if they believe me or not, now I have another obsticle, HER!! How do I explain why she would lie about me assulting her!! Their story is more believable than mine. And mine is the truth!!!!!!!!

He loves all of this. He loves seeing her treat me like this. He loves orechstrating the whole thing. He feeds off of it. She is so brainwashed she believes everything he tells her but you know I still feel sorry for her because she doesn't know how bad he is yet. Even if I did tell her everything she would never believe me. No one in the real world could believe that their future husband could be a completely evil person when she is not around. But that is what is happening. He is putting on the biggest production of his lifetime with her. She is model, she feeds his narcissitic supply, she is an instrument in his cartoon world. I do feel very sorry for her. If or when she does find out about everything, how shocking that that will be to her.

Oh, why do I care so much about other people??? No, I am worried about myself. I am worried about my brain and the stress. So, how do I exercise this no contact? Just don't care about childsupport? I guess I need to read more, maybe that will help.

Mindy