I dont even know where to start. It hurts, it hurts a lot. She destroyed my life and the lives of my children. All destroyed by hatred, pure hatred and without any remorse, any true feelings, pure sadism. After all she is still perfect and the 'victim.' Sounds familiar? Indeed, as I begun surfing the net about psychopaths it all fits. I knew something wasnt right but I didnt have a name for it.

Now I know: I married and lived with a psychopath. It is over by now and I am safe but my daughters have also been destroyed just like me. There is nothing I can do. It is too much evil, too much hatred for me to deal with. I had to run, run as fast as I could. There was nothing else I could have done. But in the process of running for my life I left behind my daughters. She kidnapped them, denied me access to them and there was nothing I could do but struggle to remain alive. So I ran away as fast as I could instead of fighting back. I ran for my life. One daughter is in and out of mental institutions and the other on the way to the same. And, again there is nothing I can do, she is too much powerful, too much evil. I had to run away as fast as possible because I could not take it any more.

I couldnt take it any more. But I left them behind and they are suffering as much if not more than I am. I find it hard, very hard, painfully hard to go on living like this. No, I am not suicidial, I am not going to kill myself because that is exactly what she wants. But it hurts, it hurts a lot. My life is basically nothing but living and surviving my pain. It hurts and I cant take it any more.

When will it be over? Do we ever get over a life time relationship with a psychopath? How can one sit and see ones own daughters now being destroyed? I didnt stand up for myself how could I stand up for my kids? I am a coward, a real coward because I left them at her mercy and now they are in as bad shape as I am. Maybe even worst. They had suicide attempts, are into drugs, problems with the law. But, I had to run away. I could not stand her evil any more. I dont even know where to start except say that I just cant take it anymore. There is nothing I can do. It is 100% hopeless.

All I can do, is to remain among the living and deal with this endless pain. How could I have stood up for the kids if I never did for my own self? But by running for my life I left them behind to be destroyed just as she destroyed me. I am sorry, I am so sorry, but there was nothing I could have done.

Hi NoOne, welcome to our community, sadly you did what only you could do in your position. Many have come before you and fought and fought to get their children out of the hands of a Psychopath parent with I am sad to say little success. I don't think in all these years I can count many who fought the battle for their kids and were successful. Some have been fortunate and the Psychopath moves on but when the pure evil in them keeps the kids from the good parent, I wish I could wave a wand but the courts don't protect the children.

Now the question is will you heal, I believe in time you will, I can't say it will be easy or a fast path but once you put a label on what you were dealing with the aftermath can bring healing. It is impossible imo to heal if we don't know what ran us over in life.

It sounds to me like you tried your best to stand up for you daughters but really what more could you have possibly done if she used the system and kidnapped them to keep them away from you? Are they in contact with any of your side of the family? Are they getting close to the age that they can make the decision on which parent to live with?

Di

No, they are in another continent with no family at all. Totally isolated. One is big enough but she has been poisoned by the mother. She was told that I abandomned her. She was given a brand new car and much more under the condition not to make contact with me. The other one still underage (not by much) but is most of the time in mental institutions (under total control of the mother). I cant show up because she spread the rumors of pedophile against me. Absolutely not true but she is very convincing. Unbelievable. She taught the kids to hate me and all to be my fault. I know it is not true. I was a very caring and committed parent but she twists it all. Makes herself tobe the victim just as the descriptions of a psychopath. Now I know she is a 'certified' psychopath. There is nothing I can do. The only time I secretly hear from them is when the mother goes into another rampage and destroys their personal belonging and house with a hammer! Then things calm down and she buys their silence and forgiveness with money (she is very rich). Then in a few months time it start all over. It was the same with me for more than 20 years! There is nothing I can do. It is hopeless.

Someone, please, tell me if one is guilty of abandonment because one chose not to fight a kidnap with all tools one could gather and instead one ran away to save ones' own self? The kid is now undergoing all the evil one experienced for more than 20 years and there is nothing one can do. I feel so guilty about it. I know reasonable people are going to tell me not to feel guilty because it is the right thing to say. So, I dont know why I ask the question, anyway.

Hi NoOne,



I personally think it is "normal" to have feelings of guilt, however that said, like a wise Zen teacher once told me that when we decide to beat ourselves up over the past it is only a matter of which size club we pick. I really don't see that you had any choice in the matter. What else could you have possibly done? It makes me very sad to say but maybe people just don't post when they have a happy outcome being married to a Psychopath and children are involved but no one has ever come forward and said that things worked out for the best, sadly that is just the state of dealing with evil. You did your best for all those years, now that your daughters are older it might be wise to try and get some healing for yourself so you have the strength to be there should there come a time that they see that you are the parent they can deal with.

I hope we can be there on your journey to heal yourself so that you are strong enough to help your daughters should they come to you for help.

Perhaps if we could help you see that nothing else as hard as it is could have been done, you stood by for all those years and fought, whether you call it fighting or not, you just were not able to get her to release them, you could be on the ground fighting and the outcome would sadly be the same, now that they are of age, they need to know you are there for them should they choose to be in your life.

I suspect that anyone would feel the burden of great guilt, but will that bring you the personal stability in the event they do see the light and need you to be there balanced and ready to help them get on with their lives. Perhaps it is also a mixture of feeling futile, mixed with a strong dose of PTSD and hypervigilance? Clearly all those years for you being exposed to evil has to have a horrible impact that you will need to heal from.

I can't imagine being in your shoes and I am truly sorry for the pain this must bring, it is hard to comprehend but you seem to have taken the huge first step by reaching out and asking the tough questions.

Di

Hallo Noone and welcome.

I am sorry to read of your pain and guilt.

I agree with DianneE that such feelings are unavoidable (unless one were a psychopath oneself!) but sometimes, with all teh will and wishing in the world, you cannot save someone else, even at the expense and sacrifice of yourself.

All that happens in some situations is that everyone is lost, like a drowning person also pulling down and drowning a would-be rescuer in their panic and desperation.

Sometimes all you CAN do is to save yourself.

However maybe by getting out and at least saving yourself at present you can potentially be there in future for your children, should the situation ever change,which you could not do if you tried to save and were yourself destroyed?

Best wishes, surviving and recovering from these highly damaging people is so very hard.

I know it myself. Early on when the first kid was born she truly got out of hand (brought in her psychopath mother to back her up) and I went into therapy for the first time. Remained in therapy for several years and among many other things we concluded that I had to do something because it was a sort of inevitable that she would do the same to her own kids. I Didnt believe it at the time that she would treat her own blood that way. I was only 'trying to keep things together.' It would had been much better (seen from todays persective) to have saved the kids. At that point there were so many hard facts (concrete court evidence such as police reports, emergency room reports and an infamous 15 pages psychiatric evaluation) that I would have easly won a custody court case. That is what every body was telling me. But ... I was stupid back then. I have no idea what was in my mind. Back then I never thought even for a second that she would do the same to her own kids. I still believed that there was some goodness in her soul. There was nothing. Just an empty hole. Now, one of the kids is in and out of mental institutions and the other one with relationship problems (sort of imitating the mother). Why didnt I take the advice and get us rid of her. Why? I know I need to get it over but the pain is one the way. It never goes away. Sorry, it only goes away when I drink. But I am trying hard to stop drinking. I tried to replace drinking with pot smoking but no dealer around here sells me anything. I look too good in the streets for anyone to sell me weed.

I may be thinking that I saved myself but I didnt because I am in worst shape than before. It hurts all the time. It just doesnt go away. I keep myself busy, go out, do the right things, things I enjoy but the pain is always there. Never goes away. It gets better when I drink, however. But drinking is getting me sick so I am cutting it down. But when it gets really bad, only a bottle of wine can do it. I know it is wrong but ... no one knows how much it hurts when I heard from the kids that they are also been driven nuts and I cant do a thing. Nothing.

Dont turn yourself into an alcoholic over another person

Hi NoOne, I have been thinking about your situation and have a couple of links for you to look at.

I found this one by doing a Google search using the words:
"can alcohol cause depression"

Can Alcohol Cause Depression

Why might alcohol problems and depression occur together?

Alcohol can briefly produce a pleasant and relaxed state of the mind. However, alcohol problems and depression commonly occur together.

There are several reasons for this.

Both alcohol problems and depression are extremely common. They may occur together completely independently.

People with depression sometimes use alcohol as a form of self-medication, for example either in an attempt to cheer themselves up, or sometimes to help them sleep. Although in small quantities alcohol can briefly lift mood, if used to try to cope with a depressive illness, problems arise. Tolerance to the effects of alcohol can lead to individuals needing it in larger quantities to have an effect.

Alcohol in large quantities, whether taken to treat a depression or not, produces a depressant effect on people's mood source

Marijuana and Depression - Pro's and con's

I can certainly understand why self medication seems like a good option to block out the pain but I encourage you to look at this information to decide if it will help you or keep you locked in place? I am only saying this because I have several members of my family who went this route, I did myself for a spell, luckily the side effects of alcohol became too much to bare and I was forced to take a look at what I was doing and what the process was that got me going in that direction.

Di

I agree with you. Drinking is a self destructive behavior. The psychopath wants the victim to self destruct. Saying 'see I didnt do anything, he has a drinking problem and it is his problem' while at the same time causing more pain. I dont know if you have been down at the poin of total despair and feeling hopeless and helpless. No way out except a quick shot of drinking and forget it all.

Thanks for your time and attention. Alcohol for now is out of question. I am having pain at the liver and after some Google research I am certain that it is alcohol related. I reached the plateau of about two liters per day! So I stopped a month or so ago. The liver pain improved. I have had a few relapses and every time the pain has returned. So I am certain that if I continue drinking I will destroy my liver. I am also certain that the helpless and hopless feeling is getting worst because I ceased drinking. Then came the Marijuana alternative. I bought it once and it spaced me out but it seems to be also out of question because I cant find a dealer to sell me anything. I dont look like a drug user at all and pot is not as readily available here as it is in any major US city (I am a US citizen but not living in the US). A reason (if not the reason) I first came to this forum was because the pain got worst when I stopped drinking. As if this was my last resource. So thanks for listening. There is something I need to get out of the system but I will do it in a different post.

Without getting into details I want to get out of the system one interesting episode with my 'dear' psychopath. I was being poisoned and had a bout of IBD (Inflammatory Bow Disease) that caused a lot of suffering. Had it for already a few month but it was getting worst and worst. Couldn’t eat any more.

The course time of food from mouth to toilet was not only a few minutes with very intense pain contractions and lots of gas. Doctors were already talking about a surgical removal of the Colon. I had been at the toilet for some time and when I stood up a strong pain contraction came and I felt to the floor into a fetus position at the carpet entrance to the toilet. I was obviously in pain. I had been bleeding and there was blood all over the lower body. Some drops at the carpet as well. She came and said that I was blocking her way to the bathroom. I didn’t move because I was in a fetus position with terrible pain. On the way out she said to have warned me to move over and so that she had no choice but step on me. She stepped on my shoulder. I knew that something was wrong but given the condition I was in I had no choice but take it. She was the blood stains on the carpet and told me that I was getting the house dirty and that she gave me 5 minutes to clean it up. She went down the stairs and I heard her telling the kids that I was a bad person because I was getting the house dirty.

I have no idea why I tolerated this but I knew that I had reached the limit. I went into psychotherapy and continue to suffer of IBD for a few more years. One day the therapist who after some talking with other medical staff suggested the poison possibility. It was a light bulb moment and I gave the 'theory' a try. I did not put anything in my mouth, nothing, that I did not check out with uppermost care. I also changed diet (got into the Specific Carbohydrate Diet of Elaine Gottschall) and, voila, a miracle happened. Within weeks my health improved and the IDB was over (after almost a decade of suffering). Whenever I rarely ate or drank anything at home not prepared by me I changed plates and cups with her. She knew about it.

When I improved the therapist wrote a report to the other medical staff involved in my case (I only got to read a small section of it) about the poison possibility and my 'dear' psychopath was told about it by the family doctor. Most likely the poisoning may have stopped around that time. Occasionally I still have nightmares about being stepped on while bleeding on the floor. By the way one other detail about that bathroom. As an amateur wood worker I had built an old style beautiful medicine cabinet that brought me great praise from everyone who saw it. One day she went on a rampage (common) with the hammer (her weapon of choice) and broke the cabinet (glass and all else) into minute pieces. Another 'hammer rampage' witnessed by the children. She made a sort of point that they saw what she was doing. Both kids today also have episodes of breaking up stuff. The baseball bat is rather their weapon of choice. I feel guilty I allowed this to happen. I let it stand in order to keep the family together. Obviously the family broke up and I run away. I should have fought back. I should have not tolerated it.

My tolerance was not worth it because after all she broke up the family and kidnapped the kids. I still have nightmares today concerning her hammer rampages. Sorry, if I sound like and idiot, I am, but I had to let the world know about it.

Hi Noone,
I haven't been on the forum for a while, but I check it out from time to time, especially when I am in need of support. In this case, I want to give you support. Often time it is by helping others, getting out of ourselves that we get better.

Next Saturday, I will officially be 18 months sober, a MAJOR accomplishment. Seeing your post reminds me that instead of beating myself up over having the occassional longing for the psychopath, who is long gone, or a case of regrets, I should be celebrating how far I have come in my healing journey.

Resentments are the death of any alcoholic. When the psychopath cheated on me and left, I immediately picked up the bottle and couldn't put it down for a year and a half. Hurt led to anger led to an attempt to drown out the pain. Drinking only led to more anger, since alcohol is toxic to the liver. Chinese medicine says anger is stored in the liver, so I was merely fueling an already raing fire! It took losing a job and being forced to move that got me to seek help. Now, I stay sober one day at a time NOT through will power. I do it by admitting I am powerless, that I can't control people, places or things, and giving up my problems to a higher power. I know it probably sounds hoaky if you aren't a religious person, but when I admitted that only a power greater than me could restore me to sanity, it was actually a relief. I certainly hadn't been able to do it on my own or with a counselor or through friends. Nothing worked until I gave it up to God.

Thanks for the kind words. I have been sober now for a month an a few weeks. I had a relapse or two and every time the pain in the liver area comes back. So, God or no God my choice is clear: if I continue drinking I will have a major liver breakdown. It is very hard when the other pain is more choking that the liver pain but really I have no choice and stop drinking. Unless, of course, I want to commit suicice which is not in my plans so far. So, among other things I come here when it hurts most and write down my story with the psychopath.

The writing process keeps me mentally and emotionally busy so the pain is softer. As to the believe in a higher power, lets call it God, I do believe in such a thing but that high power for me is not a personal one. It is keeping nature going, keeping the planets in their orbits, and making sure that the universe is in harmony. I dont think that that high power has much to do with me in any personal way. It does but in an indirect way. Life (call it existence or being) in itself is divine. The mere fact that life is holy. The very principle of being (existence) is divine. So, that all that there is, is good and God. Thus any being in tone with its existence is good. To get away from that existence is then evil and bad and ends up in non-life (non-being).

We (me and you) end up at the same point, a high power. But mine is not personal, is not a God of any religion or sect. I have developed an aversion over organized religion. Guess why? My dear psychopath was and is a devout Christian. Preaches high morals, gives monetary donations, etc, etc. Indeed a devout Episcopalian. All fake. Big time fake. Nothing but a show in order to feel superior. One bad apple however doesnt say all apples are bad. In my case however, I was the one who got the bad apple.

Blessed those who get the good apples.

How to be stupid and marry a psychopath. If my experience is worth something and you want to marry a psychopath so she (or he) will destroy your life just model yourself after me.

First get a friend who just married an alien from one of the most underdeveloped countries with a miniumum wage below 50 cents per hour. Back then the internet was in its infancy so I was shown what was then a 'Mail Order Bride.' Beautiful, young girls offering their eternal love to any good soul who would go and get them. Choose any one of the catalog 'items'(back then a sort of the old time Sears catalog, today you have the internet) and mail a nice 'hi how are you' letter/e-mail. Next, (and please let me change my narrative to 'I') I, was exchanging letters with a beautiful attractive lady, from a good family, with a college degree, who wanted to be a dedicated wife to a single man just (exactly) like me. Love at first sight. Written in the stars. Perfect human being telling me I was for her an angel fallen from the sky to whom she will be indebted for life. An aquaintance from a previous life (so said the village witch).

Sounded so good that I took the plane and went to visit. We had a great time. She was a dream! There were a few warning signs but I was soooo stupid (blinded) that saw only the good. Thus I was seduced, truly seduced, to marry her. She was too good to let her go. It happens only in Hollywood movies. I came back to the US and for a year I did everything I could to bring her home. She also got pregnant so I will hurry up things but, ops, it was only a false alarm. I wrote my senator, hired a lawyer, signed tons of forms, assumed all the responsibilities for bringing an alien to the country.

After all I had found 'true' love. I even sent her money for living expenses. Just a few hundred dollars which went a long way in that most underdeveloped country. In about a year she indeed arrived in the US. All expenses paid for by her own 'angel.' 'Hi, how are you,' 'how was the flight. Lets go and pick up your luggage.' 'I dont have any luggage' she replied. It is all in here in my carry one bag. Indeed, when I picked her up she had her clothes on and a small carry on bag. That is all. We had a honey moon of more or less honey moon for about a week. She already had what she wanted, a sucker to bring her to the US. The psychopath within her emerge in full force within less than a week: the first hammer rampage!

Two decades later when she kidnapped the kids she was at the top of the business world with a yearly quarter of a million dollars income!!!!! Believe me, this is true! It would make a movie! Guess who made it all possible? Guess who was the stay home dad who put his life on hold to take care of the family so she could be a rising star? Guess who and how made it all possible. I have only one thing to say: psychopaths are superb in what they do.

They are better than the best actors because actors know they are acting, psychopaths dont. They act it out for real. More about her rise in the good old USA later. But first, her first hammer rampage within a week from arrival. Next time I will be in deep pain again, instead of drinking I will come here and write about her infamous first hammer rampage.

Hi NoOne, thank you for sharing your story. I know that communicating your story can really help with the healing process. It also helps those that come here and can only bring themselves to read.

Whenever you are ready, we are here to "hear" your story.

I am glad to see that you are able to not drink and hope that helps see things as clearly as you are seeing things. It is a sad situation that you found yourself in. Keep in mind that it must be because you are a kind and caring person because that is the type of personality they seek out.

Di

First hammer rampage

Yesterday I was truly close to drink only a little cup. I knew a little cup will turn into a big bottle and told my drinking budies, 'see you later.' It is getting easy. This pain in the liver that comes up when I drink is making miracles.

Well her first hammer rampage. Within a week or two from her arrival in the US we got into one of those Wallmart promotions, pay one get one free family portraits. We got a big and nice wall family photo. I built a nice frame, order a glass, etc. I took great pride in the artistic work. I am among other things an amateur wood worker.

One day I was late home because on my way out a colleague caught me into a conversation about office politics. Nothing important, only a lenghty chat. I arrived home perhaps an hour or so late (and because I was late) to find the photo frame broke up in the floor with broken glass all over. Frame was gone and most interesting there was the hammer puntch on my face. A hole! It hurt so much! I had done all the work with so much care. I took so much pride with the work. I cried, still tried to repair but to no avail. I still have it all (in broken form) stored in a little box. It was her first hammer rampage. She made it clear that if things dont go her way then it is the hammer way. All living quarters she has lived in had major hammer damage.

When the kids grew she carried over the same hammer policy. Today it is the children themselves who break up stuff. The baseball bat is rather their weapon of choice. I have asked myself endlessly, why, why did I tolerate it. Back then I thought that the only choice was to become violent as well but violence at least for me was out of question. I didnt see any other alternative back then. But, why, why did I tolerate it the very first time? I could have done so many things.

What I did, nothing and show pain, was exactly what she wanted. She had to be in control and the hammer was her way to get it. Sad, very sad not only because of the pain such violence has caused me but because now it is the kids themselves who acquired the same behavior.

Isolation

If only I had known that psychopaths isolate their victim! I knew about the isolation factor, I was warned about it but never took it seriously. After all what was wrong to be alone for the sake of peace and keeping the family together?

Friends and family couldnt be as important. When my 'dear' psychopath arrived I was quite a social person. My professional activity required some socializing and I enjoyed talking to people, have friends. I had a few good friends and twice more the number of acquaintances. Had a few more close colleagues at work and I a good share of a social life. Interesting enough and without getting into details for every male friend, acquaintance or colleague I had half a dozen of female. I always got along better with women than with men. But such relationships (with only few exceptions) were never more than just friendships. I didnt see them as women or men but rather as people. My 'dear' psychopath immediately picked up on that fact.

For her I was not just friends with my 'womyn,' I was having affairs with all of them which was, of course, not true. Not true at all. To make the story short, soon I was 'forbiden' to talk to women, to have them as colleagues, friends or whatever. To some extent I continue to socialize but never in front of her. Next, I was not allowed to have not even male friends. She always got a away to humiliate me in front of other people. Make a big drama for whatever reason, scare people away.

Within a year or two of our marriage I was isolated. Had no one to turn to because for one reason or other she scared them away. It got worst when the kids were born. I got use to the idea that I had no friends. Except for a few professional contacts I had no social life. It wasnt a big deal. I could be a lone star. It wasnt worth a big public scene by the drama queen. Once, when we visited my family she went on a rampage at a shopping mall (sorry, but I forgot the reason, maybe there wasnt even a reason). Screeming like hell, breaking mall stuff, throwing everything. And... the kids watching. The family watching. I was so scared a hammer would come up. So humiliated. Few years later wihtout any conscience, awareness, whatever, she claimed that the fact that I dint have friends was evidence that I was a bad person. 'No one likes you' kind of argument. She argued that I was in therapy because I dint have friends to talk to like she did.

Now, that I am reading about psychopaths I read it everywhere: psychopaths isolate their victim. Nothing could be more true. I dont think my 'dear' psychopath was even aware that she was isolating me. Psychopaths have zero self awareness. They are not actors, they are the act. They are on an automatic pilot certain that their course is the right course and there is no other way. They are afraid that the victim will be awaken by other people. They seek to isolate the victim in order to deliver the final death blow and no one will come to the rescue.

Thanks for listening.

I lost my kids but I gained my social life back. I am back to my pre-psychopath phase. I have family, a few good friends and many, many acquaintances. Having been deprived of it now I deeply value interpersonal relationships. But ... at what a price! I had to pay with my own kids in order to have my life back. What a price. I often wonder if it was worth it.

Hi NoOne, sorry for not responding earlier, have been in and out. Thanks again for continuing to share your story.

I was struck by your comment:


Very good observations. I also think about isolation that it is something that creeps up on victims, before you know it your support system is gone. It is the same but on a larger scale how cult leaders operate, they first get people to get rid of their families and anyone not involved with the cult.


That is a tough one, not sure what you mean? I think if we all had to go back and live life a different way we would change many things but as we progress through life, unfortunately we can't change the past only our future.

I am glad to read that you have a good support system and have gotten out of the isolation. Isolation is the worst thing and can do a lot of crazy making in how we feel about ourselves.

Di

Sex with a psychopath, variations of a theme

Very short and simple to describe the sexual pattern with my 'dear' psyhcopath. When things went wrong which was every day or if lucky every other day, after the hammer rampages, violence and abuse, she got all excited and have hot sex.

Not complaining about the sex at all, but what it was strange was that she would get all sexed after the violence outburst and pain was visible on my side. Sex would happen as if nothing had happen. It was a sort of way to make peace and move on. I would be so much down, so scare that some affection even if only in the form of sex was a big release and at last some relaxation. But comes morning or soon afterwards she would go back to the same old abusive pattern. For me it was the only way to bring her tension down, calm her down, get some peace, even if only for so long as sex lasted. But interesting enough there was never mouth kissing. In two decades of sexual activity we may have mouth kissed as part of the sexual act less than a dozen times and it was NEVER a 'true' thing.

Occasioanly when we still had some sort of communication and I made a comment about it she said that mouth kissing was an 'exchanging of saliva.' Later I read that prostitutes rarely mouth kiss with their clients. I dont know because I am not into prostitutes studies but that is what I heard. I find it interesting because you can fake everything about sex but you can not fake affectionate mouth kissing. You know when it is fake.

Towards the end of the relationship I lost interest in sex not because I didnt enjoy it but because I felt it was disgusting and dirty. It took place in a vacum bubble in total isolation from the dysfunctional relatiosnhip. It was only but sex out of the context of the relationship. It was only but sex in its most instinctual (animal) form just like monkeys or any other animal. Long before it was over I remember having told the therapist that the only thing we had in common or did it together with some sort of peace and pleasure was sex.

Sad, very sad and even more so because I knew something was wrong and did nothing about it. After all it was the only way to calm her down while getting my own. I must confess that to some extend her hot sexual behavior was stimulating. She would go wild and for the moment it was pleasurable. Sad it was in isolation as if lost in deep space within a soap bubble.

Oh my god I can totally relate to this!!!
No mouth kissing, thats so true!! When I think about it, there wasn't much kissing in the relationship at all, he just avoided it. We never really pasionatelly kissed! I dont think psychopaths can do that, just like you wrote - you cannot fake a real passionate kiss!

HPV or STD episode

It gets 'better' here on how a psychopath works. Towards the end of the relationship my 'dear' psychopath had her routine yearly medical check up. Her gynec was volunteering in Central America and his back up was an inexperienced recent graduate. The check up returned with a positive for HPV which is considered a STD. She blew it all up. First, she made it sure that she had married me virgin (I question it but that is not the point for now), second, that she had always been faithful (I also question that), and last, that therefore I was the one who had given her a STD.

The first to know were the kids, but then also all her friends ('lucky' me I had no friends at that time), family and, of course and as usual, the threat to tell all my colleagues at work so to go public and everybody knows that I am a pervert. What hurt me most was hearing from my kids that I had given mom a STD. It was sad, truly sad. There was no way I could explain how come she had gotten HPV. I was faithful to her, meaning that had absolutly no affairs outside of the marriage. I knew that pretty well. So ... how was it possible? The only option (at least in my mind) was that she was the one who got it some where. I had no other explanation. Meantime the kids got really angry with me because 'I had given mom STD.'

In desperation and if such was the case then I needed medical attention. I went to the family doctor who already knew some of the family 'history.' He recommended lab work and told me that he was almost sure I didnt have anything. The lab work returned, indeed, negative results. He also suggested that she be tested again with more precise lab work. I insisted with her to do it. If the STD was real then she had to take care of it. The well being of the kids could be at risk.

Mean time her old time doctor returned to his normal practice, took over the case and tested her again. The verdict was 'negative' for HPV. I was amazed. I told my family doctor who spoke to the other doctor who suggested that I call. The gynoc was infuriated. He assured me that my 'dear' psychopath had no HPV and that the mistake was in part due to the inexperience of his backup and the lack of reliability of the first lab work. He assured me that the more sophisticated lab work showed only but negative results.

I talked to her about the 'grave' and unfair mistake and asked her to make up for the damage. I asked her to tell the kids that it was all a misunderstanding. She refused to. Even if there were no incriminating facts I was still guilty of being a pervert. I explained the kids myself that I could not have given mom STD because mom had no STD. They didnt look like they were convinced. The stain and damage had been done. She never apologized to me, the kids or as far as I know never labelled her accusations as false and that there was a lab 'misunderstanding.'

The family doctor who already knew what was going on told me that what she did (tell the kids that I had given her STD) was not humane. I had reached the conclusion that she was not human a long time ago. Reassuring neverthless to hear it from someone else. If asked I am certain she will reply not to have done anything wrong. The first doctor was the one who mis-diagnosed her. 'Ops, not my fault the first to hear about it were the kids.'

I didnt post for some time because I felt a little better for a few days. I only come here when I am down and about to drink again. Last night one of the nightmares came back and I was down most of the day. So here you have what became the last great humiliation: 'the kiss my feet episode.'

I had finally learned how to deal with my dear psychopath: the only way to deal with her was not to deal with her. I begun having my own life. I literally taped my mouth. No more discussions because there was no more talking. I assumed that in order to have a somehow decent life I had to move on. I begun having long nature walks, when possible I went camping alone (well, the dog also came with me), doing serious wood work (big projects), and of course take care of the kids (she was absent most of the time). She understood that she was loosing control of me and that I was having my own life. This is when she begun planning the kidnap. She made it sure that I knew about it (an expert in threats). I was absolutely terrified and I asked her for the children's sake not to do it. I told her that it would be devastating for the kids. As usual she could not be reasoned with. Then came the ultimate humiliation: she asked me to kiss her feet because otherwise she would take the kids away. It was, so she said, the only way for me to redeem myself and have the kids. My last chance, she said. I was so terrified that she would do good on her threat and so ... on my knees and crying I kissed her feet. Once, twice, (I dont remember know how many times) till she was satisfied. I hate what I did. I keep having this nightmare of begging her for my kids while kissing her feet. The nightmares continue to be as real as it was back then. It was the ultimate humiliation. I thought that kissing her feet and beg for my kids had done it. It didnt. Without my legal permission she took the kids to another continent. I thought I had paid the ultimate price and that her threat was hollow. I was wrong. It was to no avail. Yes, it was kidnapping because they were minors and she needed my written consent to take the children out of the country. She managed to work around the consent thing (how she did is not the point for now).

I am sorry, I am so sorry to have allowed my myself to be humiliated in such way. I am humiliated of having even to confess it. I am sorry, I am so sorry I brough myself as low as low can be. At least I got it out of the system and let the world know the meaning of humiliation. There you have it. If someone asks you what is humiliation, mention my story. Humiliation at its best. In return all I ask for is the nightmares to stop. They are so real. It is like going over and over, again and again, the kissing of her feet. The nightmares are as real as the real thing and I hate it. Cant take it anymore.

Dear Noone,
I am so sorry to hear about your pain, both of your humiliation and the kidnapping.
Humiliation is about shame. Whilest I entirely understand how anyone would feel shamed to have been forced to kiss someone's feet in this deliberately and intentionally humiliating way, please remember why you did it- to try to protect your children by preventing their kidnap.
You have no reason to feel shame or humiliation for trying to protect them, however you had to try to do so.
You are entitled to hold you head up proudly that you were selflessly prepared to do even that to try to protect them.
I hope you can take some solace from that.

Yes, I know. You are right. Anyone would have done anything to save his or her own. But somewhere in the back of my mind I knew that at the bottom of things that by fulfilling her threats I wouldnt achieve anything. I was living in LaLa land thinking that allowing myself to be humiliated would fix the problem. I would have done anything to protect and keep my kids but I was stupid to believe that such an humiliation would have fixed the problem. How stupid of me. Nothing would have satisfied her thirst for 'blood.' After all she abused and humiliated me for 20 years. All under threats. I sort of knew in the back ofmy mind that satisfying her thirst for blood would only bring more misery. Stupid, very stupid of me to fall for it one more time.

When good Karma kicked in

Yes, there was end to it. Summer came along and she asked to take the kids for a short vacation. She had made a big investment (many hundred dollars) in our living quarters. I suspected that she may kidnap the kids but ... why would she make such a big investment in real estate? So, although I suspected that a kidnap was on the way I had all the reasons not to trust my intuition.

She needed a written consent to take the kids out of country. I gave it but explicitely stated that it was only for the period of a month and a return. I regret it. I only found out later that she cleaned up all her documents, bank accounts, etc, etc. Onmu side of things, having a month vacation was a great idea. I had not had such a long period of time for myself exclusively. So I did what I loved best. Back to nature (something like camping but better than camping.

I dont want to give up that information). Two weeks later as I was enjoying my little paradise she called. It was 4:30PM and the call lasted for a few minutes. She wasnt coming back and the kids were gone. It was over unless I would pack and go back within a week. First, it was not mechanically possible for me to go back. It was the middle of the Summer. An airline ticket would have costed a fortune (if possible at all because I was sort of 'camping' in the end of the world). So at that moment I made the ultimate decision. NO MORE. I knew I was about to pay a high price for my decision. I told myself 'enough is enough.'

When I made that decision 'good' karma kicked in. I was alone in the wild a few days trying to figure out what I had just decided but then I went back into civilization and what followed was only but good karma. I met people who were in the same environemt and I was very open about was going on with my life. I didnt know people could be so nice to me. They cherished me, they came and checked on me. They gave me the support I needed. Then one of my acquaintances become very friendlyand supporting.

I shared my life story with her and we became involved(yes, there was great sex). I was in paradise and with an angel next to me, supporting me and even loving me. This is what I call good karma kicking in. I got the help I needed when I needed it most. Call me lucky! We stayed together for the rest of the summer. Without such a support I would have never withstand my 'dear' psychotapth's phone call and demands. I knew however that the duration of my new relationship was only a short summer adventure.

She was half of my age and from another continent. When summer was over she went back to her place and I back to my place. Without her support -love- I would not have survived. When summer was over and I was back to the regular life I made many acquaintances, a few good friends and my family was very supportive. Having being deprived of human relationships I now truly valued interpersonal relationships. I was (and still am) in a small very closed community where everyody know everybody.

They all knew I was being abused and a sort of were happy to see me free at last. It is a sort of 'primitive society' so you in the US will never understand what is this community life. I met a couple of very interesting women (with sex) but we didnt click. I knew that sooner or later a special one would show up. And,indeed, she did. Love at first sight. A decade younger than me and a wonderful person. We have been together now for 3 years and she never hurt me not even ONCE. No more pain. We now live together and ... just as in Hollywood 'happy ever after.' So, I am blessed. I consider myself immensley blessed.

Good karma kicked in as soon as my psychopath was over. BUT, I lost my kids. Within a few months from the kidnap the kids got into troubles. The youngest one got into drugs, violence (imitating the mother), mutilation, robbery and and last mental institutions. My 'dear' psychopath tried everything to get me back by making me feel guilty for what was happeningto the kids but I didnt give up. I said, NO. It was the first time I told her up front 'enough is enough.' But in the process I 'abandomned' my kids in the hands of a psychopath mother. If I had gone back it would had been the same abuse all over again. Now she forbides them to contact me. 'I dont care for them.' 'I abandomned them' and so goes the story of a psychopath. The 'victim.'

When I told her that it was over and that now I had my life she became all sweet. She was sweet, so sorry. She even asked for forgiveness, etc, etc. But I knew better. It was all fake. Even her tears were fake! Amazing how a psychopath can fake even the tears. I stood on my own ground. After all I had given up after that faithfull 4:30PM call. I had already given up my heart and slept with another women, so ... I could not go back. It was over. When she realized that it was over she became violent again (yes, her sweet thing was fake) but I was back to the other continent where she couldnt reach me anynore. She still tried neverthless. She called my family, wrote letters to the IRS of both continents, called my friends in the middle of th enight and worst of all wrote infamous letters to my employer and colleagues at work.

But, again, this is when my good karma kicked in: no one took her serisouly! Her claims/accusation were so outrageous that everyone who knew me laugh about it. I was surprised that everyone knew she was a sort (to say the least) lunatic. I didnt know everybody knew about it! But then came the ultimate threat: no more contact with the kids. And, once again I told myself, 'enough is enough.' The blackmail goes on. The oldest daughter got a new and expensive car in the condition that she will not communicate with me.

The youngest one writes me from all sorts of friends' e-mail boxes when she is hospitalized in mental institutions. She wants me to come and get her out. I told her that all she needed to do was get into a plane and get out. Space is over, more in next post.

Got out of space in my previous post, so here is the rest of the story.

I bought her a ticket and she was suppose to run away. But she needed a consent to travel, the kid couldnt figure it out and the mother torpedo it all. Now her excuse is that I am a pedophile and that she is doing it to protect the kid. I wrote my daughter about the mother's claim and she wrote me back that even if she says that it is not true the mother still makes the charges. Mother wrote me that she filed charges against me. I worry but something tells me that something is not right.

If the kids rejects the accusations and I havent been heard, there is no evidence, then how can she file charges? The psychopath again. Now, I know better. But ... I am far, far away out of her reach. Her money can buy justice in the US but the place where I am now money doesnt buy justice. I chose silence and a low profile in order not to make it worst for the kid. She is in and out of mental institutions and having problems with violence, drugs and the law. I have told her that as soon as she will not need a travel consent she will have an airline ticket waiting for her. But... then there is the passport problem. Her mother is keeping her passport and documents.

The saga goes on which is another story. For now I only wanted to write about my good karma. Surely, I still wonder how lucky I am that my good karma kicked in as soon as I said 'enough is enough' and I stood up for myself.

Reading my own posts and asking why I am here writing about my life with a psychopath I arrive once again at the same conclusion. I tolerated so much abuse because I wanted to keep the family together. I knew all along that what she was doing was wrong but I persisted and allowed it to go on. When the family broke up it was not me who did it. What haunts me most now is that at the kidnap point I gave up and ran away. 'Enough was enough' so I thought but I was wrong. For the kid's sake there should not have been an enough.

Things settled down and now I am not in any better condition. In fact I am in permanent pain. I left at least one of the kids entirely at her hands while knowing that she was nuts. I abandomned the kid at the mercy (lack of mercy) of a psychopath mother. The kid is in a terrible condition. Drugs, sex, violence, self mutilation, problems with the law and in and out of mental institutions. So, I blame myself for it. I survived her psychopath mother because I was a grown up (sort of). I can now see what happens when the same psychopathology is pressed upon a kid. Much more destructive. It is my fault I didnt fight back and saved the kid. I just gave up and ran for my life. Enough was not enough.

In this context the self blame goes back at least a decade. When I first went into therapy I managed to drag her there and after the initial sessions the therapist asked to meet only with her. It was fine with me but it only lasted a short time. I remember to have heard that she had no time for chats, that she had her own friends to talk to and that the therapist was missing her point. I had no choice but continue the therapy alone. It went on for many years. I always told the therapist what was going on at home and at some point she noted that mother was now abusing the kids just as she abused me. In our language we called it back then 'abuse.' The word psychopath was not acquainted.

I was shocked to realize that it could be a possibility and argued that I just couldnt believe that she would abuse the kids as well. We talked and talked about it and at last the therapist told me that according to State law she was obliged (her duty or responsibility, I dont recall the exact term) to report child abuse to the appropriate agency. I asked her not to do it. I was afraid of what could happen. Apparently and unfortunately I was persuasive enough because she did not report. But she wrote a 15 page report discussing my health (the IBD) and possible poisoning. The term she used was 'spouse abuse.' I already wrote about it here.

Why in the world did I stop the therapist from reporting child abuse to the State agency? She should had known better. Abuse is abuse. Anyway, at least 'spouse abuse' was now on record. The insurance did not want to pay anymore for therapy and so I had to see a psychiatrist in order to be treated with drugs. I met the psychiatrist for a few sessions and another 'spouse abuse' report was written and circulated.

Nothing happened. I dont blame anyone for allowing the abuse to go on but I do blame them for not reporting even if against my own wish a case of child abuse. After all it was (and is) a State law to report child abuse.

Anyway, I have a great life now. I got it right this time but I am in more pain than when I was abused by my 'dear' psychopath. I blame myself for abandomning the kid in the hands of a psychopath mother. I should not have done that. I was selfish for looking only after my own self. I sould not have said 'enough is enough.' For the kid's sake enough should have never been enough. I am sorry. I am so sorry.

Reading my last posts I found it interesting how many times I used the word 'abandomning.' I find it interesting because it is exactly the same term or 'accusation' of my 'dear' psychopath. We share the same accusation but for different reasons. Maybe I am assimilating, incorporating unto myself what is coming from the psychopath? I thought I knew better. Maybe she is still getting to me because I blame myself the same way she blames me. Maybe it is just coincidence.

Hi NoOne, I tried to PM you but it said it was disabled. I know completely about how I let the Psychopaths and drinking my pain away. Prefer to talk one on one, but not sure how since it keeps giving me that error message.

Chryss

At my end of things all is working just fine. I dont want to give my private e-mail to anyone. I wish to remain as anonymous as anonymous can be. You can post at the thread anonymously as well.

Sex with the dead? Is this a common psychopath's pathology?

There was another parallel theme in our sex life: my 'dear' psychopath imagined herself having sex with a dead man.

Yes, you read it right, she wanted to have sex with a dead man. This is how it goes. She needed some sort of clitorial stimulation to get things going and the way she did was to rub herself against my 'bone.' Laying sideways she mounted on me and rubed her clitoris against my bone. Her orgasm was always wild. Only then she wasable to move on to 'real' sex. Without having first her 'fix,' however, not much would happen. It was a sort of warming up or prelude to the real thing. It was fine with me because, first, it was obvious that she was enjoying herself, and second, I had no complains about the action that followed. She was truly warmed up. Once I talked about this with my therapist and she said that some women need clitoral stimulation in order to get into the mood. Hearing that from a women was reassuring.

So far so good, except that I, her partner, had to play a 'little act' for her (yes, it is getting kinky). That little act was 'faking that I was a dead man' (her own words). Meaning, that in my 'act,' I could not move, touch her, talk, etc. Nothing. I had to be a frozen statue, or in her own words a 'dead man.' She would get angry with me if I moved or touched her. Her eyes were always closed and her face looking up. The eroticism for her (I am only guessing here, only God knows what went on in her head) was having me to play for her the role of a dead man. I never understood that acting dead part even after discussing it with my therapist.

I already thought back then that it was weird. I can not see myself having sex with dead women. I know there are many jokes about it but ... how can one have sex imagining that the partner is a dead person? The thought of it makes me want to throw up. Weird to say the least. I remember posing this issue to the therapist and hearing from her that better put that one aside, as if this is too wild and 'you dont want to go there.' It was a sort of women's thing or secret. I may have misunderstood the therapist but such was my perception.

Now, my question is as follows: do psychopath women fancy having sex with dead men? Is this a common thing or I happen to be the only 'lucky' guy to get such a 'wild' sex experience with a psychopath?

Got a 'moral' lesson

Yesterday I got a moral speech from my family doctor. I hated it, I wanted to disappear, I felt terrible. I saw him because of that pain in the liver area. He asked for all sorts of exams and I was back for the results. Thanks God everything is fine and I havent yet destroyed the liver. But ... he had free time and asked me about the family, etc.

He told me that he remembers well the HPV case (I wrote about it in another post) and that he was still angry about it. I told him that the relationship was over and that I had put it all aside. It didnt suffice because he went on a rampage how upset he still was about her behavior. He told me that there are many, many false positives (and false negatives) results and that it was utterly unfair that the kids were the first to know that 'dad had contracted a STD' when such was not the case. He went on a rampage that made me feel absolutely terrible. He told me that her behavior was not fair, ethical, human, etc and that worst of all that I should not have tolerated such a thing. That I should have her apologize to me in front of the kids, etc, etc.

He was right on absolutely everything he said. I felt guilty because back then I was paralized with fear and I didnt do a thing. What he was telling me was what any normal human being would have done in such a case. Of course, I was guilty, shamed, whatever, for merely listening to his speech. I was less than human. He was on a rampage that felt like it was never going to end. I felt like shrinking into a hole and disappear. He has no idea what it was to live with a psychopath and being abused for so long. No idea. When it was over I was so much down that I almost took to the bottle. Luckly I met my SO.

She realized I was in shock (she thought the exam results were bad and that I had some liver disease) and I told her what had happened and her support made me feel better. Hard for me to believe how much BS I put up with in order to keep the family together and in spite of that effort still have her not only break up the family but also in so doing destroy everybody while claiming that it was all my fault because I 'abandomned' the kids. You got to have a psychopath chutzpaq to go that far.

I am sorry your Dr. put you through all of that. Sometimes life just stinks, and it is a lesson to us all to listen to others through the lens of compassion vs. reminding them of their pain and passing such harsh judgement. Saying you had put it aside should have been a huge clue to not continue on digging through the past at your emotional expense, imo.

I am glad you have a SO in your life who gets it. No one deserves to be beaten alive over the past, you didn't deserve this and I am sorry to hear you had to sit there and listen.


Di

The worst part was to recognize that he was right. What he was telling me was what any normal human being should have done. My 'excuse' (that after years of abuse I was no longer a normal human being and living a dysfunctional existence) is not an 'excuse.' We are ultimately the only ones responsible for our existence. I should not have let her bring me so much down.

On the other hand and in the context of the SO it amazes me the support and quality of all my relationships since life with the psychopath was over. It is what I mentioned as 'good karma kicking in.' I only had the strengh to say 'enough is enough' because I had a very compassionate and loving person with me within hours from the psychopath's 3 minutes phone call, my family that was glad to see me over the relationship, my co-workers who knew all about the psychopathic nature of the relationship and didnt dare to tell me anything, and the quality of the interpersonal relationships that came up, not to mention the community and acquaintances that I can barely handle. My good luck (or karma) kicked in as soon as the psychopath (bad energies) was away from me.

Now, my worst enemy is me. I miss my children very much and I feel guilt not to have saved them from the psychopath mother. People around me know about it but not the extent of the pain. They know the pain is there but have no idea how deep it runs through.

Infidelity

Once she came up with the story that her employer had an after hours tranining for a two months period. It was a short course in order to have the staff trained to back up other departments should the need arise due to market conditions (sorry but I cant give details here). It didnt sound right to me but it was a great opportunity not to have her at home and have quality time with the kids. So, I agree with all my heart. 'Go ahead and I will take care of everything around here.' I picked up the kids at school (as usual), went grocery shopping with them, we cooked dinner together, did homework, etc. There was no fighting, no discussions as when she was around. We all had a great time. When she arrived home around midnight they were already sleeping. This training course went on for at least two months.

I knew she was not in any training course. I had no hard facts, however, as to what she was doing. I can not for sure say she was having an affair but I can say with some certainty that she was not in any training course. But I faked that I knew nothing because we (me and the kids) were having a great time. I was in therapy then (as usual) and I remember talking about feelings of betrayal. It was my decision back then, however, to look it the other way. All I wanted was to keep the family together. I was willing to pay even the price of infidelity. So, I did a good job faking I belived her story. I am still amazed how good she was at setting it all up in such a way to fake her training sessions. A few months after it was over I went to the library and studied the topic of her training course. Nothing really complicated but lots of techincal jargon. Then in the next few days I tested her knowledge. She knew next to nothing about it. Conclusion: she was not in any professional training.

In this context there two interesting facts. First, I never met her colleagues, was never invited to any of her employer get togethers (Christmas parties, for example). The excuse was always that it was only for employees never the families. I didnt even know where in town was her office. Second, apparently she had an 'enemy' at work who soon after the training course was over sent me anonymous e-mail telling me that she was 'in sin.' The mail was a 'born again' Christian non-sense. Sin, hell, betrayal, salvation, Jesus and the likes. I dismissed the content but ... the accusation was clear: she was in sin. The sin, however, was not specified.

I had no hard evidence but putting it all together one can guess this one right. She had an affair. But it didnt bother me. I had no more feeling for her and I had made a very conscious decision that keeping the family together was more important. I laughed with my therapist that she was having an affair with another dead man. Good luck to him (or was it a her?)!

I am mentioning this now because in perspective it wasnt worth it. I should not have tolerate her affair. It was just another humiliation, in this case self inflicted. I looked the other way because I had a bigger priority. It makes me feel terrible now why I tolerated her infedility and did nothing about it.

I am also writing about this here because except for the therapist at that time, I havent told this story to no one. Nobody. For some reason, now, I felt the need to let the entire world know even if only anonymously.

For Astrologers only

IF you are into astrology, have you wondered how the chart of a 'certified' psychopath would look like? Call this chart 'Certified Female Psychopath.' There are enough clues in here for you to figure the birth info. Keep that info for yourself, please. If you are not into astrology, please move on, there is nothing here for you. This is 'only for the converted.'

Pluto:22Lib
Nept:17Scor
Uranus:12Virg
Sat:16Pisc
Jupit:19Gemi
Mars:10Lib
Merc:22Leo
Venus:20Leo
Moon:13Pisc
Sun:25Canc
ASC:22Lib
MC:20Canc

Please note that I am writing here from the insiders perspective (the victim of a psychopath) so please take me for granted and hold this chart for research purposes. It is the birth chart of a psychopath.

First thing that strikes out immediatelly and belive me it is true, is Nept in the First, Square the Ruler of the Asc, Venus. Rising sign is Libra. Neptune in the first (and in Libra) Square its own dispositor, Venus, in Leo. Even a beginner would have guessed it: cheating, she is not what she look like. Illusive, deceptive, actor. All other descriptions of a square Neptune in the first square its own dispositor apply. All of them. From the insider perspective (me) the interesting thing here is that she, her herself, (Sun in Can/10th) is not aware of it!

Next look at her Moon. Her Sun is in Cancer (we will get to it) so her Moon being the dispositor is of major significance. You got the Moon in Pisces/5th. So far so good. BUT look at that Saturn conjunct the Moon in Pisces (3 degrees orb, so consider it 'perfect' plus it is almost the handle of the Bucket in Jones Patterns). Yes, you got it right. An ultra rigid emotional state. Children (5th) being the main victims. Pain and suffering coming from or targeted at the children. Life lessons, guilt (?), punishment etc (all Saturn meanings) via children. From the insider perspective it also means SIBLINGS/5th (caught you! you forgot that one!). She was abused when a child by her own siblings. I always thought that the abuser (Saturn) was her father (Saturn) but believe me: the abuser was rather her mother (Moon) and above all her siblings (5th). The information is there if only you dare to look at it away from the Father/Saturn traditional interpretation.

Once you look at the Moon (now already identified as major) you got her aspects. It should horrify any astrology student. Just think about it: Natal Moon Opp Pluto (O degree! perfect orb!), Opp Uranus (1 degree orb, perfect), Square Jupiter (in the 8th/Gemini). Plus the Square (perfect orb) to the North Moon node (fowarding looking Karma). The only thing going on for this troubled Moon is the trine to the ASC. Remember that the Neptune is in the First square its own dispositor). So the only thing 'good' (trine) coming out of her moon is the illusion and deception! An expert at it.

All the the 'traditional' meanings of a Moon Opp Pluto, Moon Opp Uranus, apply. Mix in the Moon Square to the great 'magnifier' (Jupiter) in the 8th (sex among other things) and you got the picture! Yes, you can take all the textbook descriptions as true: 'certified psychopath.' Pay attention at the Orbits: all perfect or within very close range.

For astrologers only, part II.

True also is her Sun in Cancer in the 10th. Mid day (Medium Coeli) birth. Traditinal textbook interpretations (Sun in Cancer/10th) apply. The only place where she truly shines. There are a few 'good' aspects but they are minor when compared to the troubled Moon. Remember that Sun is in Cancer.

Forgot to mention tha last (and crucial) item. Look at the ruler of the 7th house with Aries in the cusp (marriage). Mars in is Libra (Detriment) and above all in the 12th (the house of self undoing. Imprisonment? Death?).

Hold this chart for research purposes: Female Psychopath. If you have the knowledge to figure out her birth info please keep it as anonymous. The point here (make sure you make this point) is that such a big thing as a psychopath personality will have to show up in many ways all around the chart. No one 'single' aspect or dispositor will make it. When a chart wants to talk it will do it out loud. In this case the 'psychopath' is there no matter the way you turn it around.

Random thoughts

Once my 'dear' psychopath was going to perform a big event: cook dinner for the family! Something she never did. She didnt even clean the kitchen or knew how to cook an egg. Her cooking was to call for pizza. I was already aware of the poisoning and having a strict diet. So she cooked the easy stuff I couldnt eat: pasta. When I arrived at the table there was no plate, silverware, or food for me. I set there blank looking at her and the kids eat pasta. When I asked what about me she answered, 'I dont know how to cook for you so you dont eat.' And I just sat there and didnt say a word scared that she would do a big fuzz in front of the kids. When, I did say something she shouted to the kids, 'see, how miserable I am: even when I decide to cook dinner he doesnt eat.' Everybody (including the kids) already knew at that point that my diet didnt permit to eat pasta. E

Often she called me stupid in front of the kids. Whenever she got upset and had to mention my name it was rather as 'stupid.' More often so was to tell the kids how much she 'hated' me. That one was a daily option.

And, what did I do? Nothing. If I would have said anything she would have taken the hammer and broken up the house. Meantime the kids learned her jargon. I beganhearing 'stupid' and 'hate you' whenever I had to enforce authority, discipline, or even ask anything. The same words as the mother.

This was the first thing my therapist picked up back then as abuse. She wanted to report to the State agency and I begged her not to. How 'stupid' I truly was. I do 'hate' myself for allwoing such abuse to go on for so long.

Random thoughts, part II

Early on whenever she set up the table she dindt place silverware or a plate in my seat. If asked she replied that I should do it myself. So, I got into the routine to set up the table myself so there would be no fuzz over my plate and silverware. As the years went by, she not only didnt cook a meal, she neither set up a table or clean up anything. I was her 'house slave.' This is the term, by the way, she used to describe me to her friends.

Again, I just looked the other way and let it happen. Anything I would have said would certainly make the hammer fly. I didnt want the kids to see that. So, I complied and became her 'house slave.' In her country of origin there were people who were treated like slaves. So it must had been a 'normal' thing for her to see me as her slave. In her bed/sex fantasies, most likely (?) I was her 'dead' slave.

Hi NoOne, I can sense your feelings of not letting the therapist report your wife and how she was with your children. It is also very likely with the crazy systems we have at least here in the US that no one would have done anything or if they did come around as soon as they left things would escalate horribly if that is possible to imagine.

I have tried for example to help some kids out that are living with meth addict parents who do indeed model may traits of Psychopaths and they get taken away for awhile and next thing the parents have them again, it is a crazy cycle. For awhile the grandfather had them and really he was not much better. The parents are known drug addicts, the grandfather is an alcoholic who lets the parents come round and the house even tested positive for meth but still no relief for the poor kids. The courts here have this whacky thing that kids are always better with their mothers and don't take into account disorders the mother exhibits. Truly sad for the kids.

I guess what I am trying to express that even if you had done something I can't really say for certain that help would have been there. It is also highly likely that she would have presented herself as the ideal parent and you as the problem and also highly likely she would have been believed over you.

Tough to tell but these are just my thoughts.

Di

I guess what I am trying to express that even if you had done something I can't really say for certain that help would have been there. It is also highly likely that she would have presented herself as the ideal parent and you as the problem and also highly likely she would have been believed over you.

............

Dianne, You are right on that one. No matter how much sick she was (and is) and how much evidence there could be against her she was (and is) so good at make herself a victim that it would had been an 'endless' and costly legal battle and, most likely, people whould believe her victim story.

She is good and I mean, good, at turning things around and make herself a victim. The therapist knew about her but without my consent she gave up. I sense that I am only trying to justify my inaction and blame the therapist. But ... the law is the law and the law in her State required her to report child abuse. She knew very well that this was a case of child (and spouse) abuse.

I think that when she went to therapy alone for a few sessions the therapist confronted her but got nowhere because she quit after that attempt.

And, you are also righ, a mom would win 99% of the legal battles against a dad merely because she is the mom. This is the sad story in the US. Also in my case, when I had the courage to tell professionals in the health field that I was being abused by the female spouse, they took it with a 'grain' of salt. Moreover, I was bigger (in terms of physical size) than her. Hard to believe how a 'little' female thing could control and abuse a 'big' male spouse.

I know that the numbers show that most psychopaths are male but people should keep their mind open, there are many, many female psychopaths out there. Males are most likely to hide it because of shame and suffer in silence just as I did.

This bias (against dads) seems to be a peculiar US feature. In the country where I am now the legal system is much more fair. I know a native judge and a lawyer very closely and they have told me that the bias has been gone. Dads are awarded custody over children (supposedly, so they say) without gender bias. Recently I even heard of a case where the children were given to the custody of a gay couple. Gay couples can legally marry and it suffices for any couple in any possible combination (male/male, female/female, or male/female) to live together for 4 years to be considered legally married. But not the point anyway.

The numbers that get quoted as far as how many are even in society are way off and haven't been figured out since the early studies in the prison population. I think there are just as many females as males, the difference is the females more than likely go unreported. It is hard to guess but I am comfortable saying that 1 - 3% of the population just doesn't add up in my book.



I also agree that most males are likely to hide it, spousal abuse against males doesn't get reported and is very misunderstood. Do I think this will all change, would like to think so but in reality it is the sad state of things.

Di

Perhaps we should not be conditioned to see it through the male/female gender prism. It is a 'human' pathology that applies to all. I may be on the wrong side of statistics but I have seen my share of female psychopaths.

Agreed it is indeed a human pathology. My first encounter with a Psychopath was a corporate one who was a female. I think the female version of the human pathology bring a new meaning to the word crafty + evil.

Di

Bomb threat

We were probably married for a few months, we had only one car, and I dont remember exactly the reason but I was late to pick her up. By late here I mean less than 15 minutes. She didnt know to drive yet but had the car keys. She went into a trantum. The car was at the parking lot of a large semi-urban institution with its own police officers. She open the car windows, turned everything inside upside down, and left a note saying something like 'beware, you son of a b****, there is a bomb in the car ready to explode if you turn on the ingnition key.'

My feeling was that she had done it because she was not waiting for me as usual but I wasnt sure of anything. The security officer knew me and had already noticed something strange and I showed him the threatening letter. We both didnt know what to do with it but just as a precaution he called the central and another officer showed up immediately. They looked around and suggested it was a prank. Kids at that place had all sorts of pranks.

She took the bus home and when I got home she was furious. Why was I late? Why I made her take the bus, etc, etc. Then she asked how was it to get a bomb threat and to be careful because next time it will be a bomb for real.

I really didnt know what to do with it and how to deal with her. Next day the officer came to fill up a report and I made myself stupid and ignorant of the whole thing. 'It was a prank, no need to take it seriously.'

It was only the first of many more rampages. The threats were not only meant to scare me but also to humiliate me in front of other people, later to include also the kids.

Snoring

Yes, something as silly as snoring became a big nightmare for me. I dont know why but the complains about my snoring begun about the time my first daughter was born. I dont know if I snored before it or if even I snored at all. I know that soon after her arrival I was exhausted. Mom went back to work and I became very busy and tired. I had my usual work (very easy one) but also had to take care of the kid, go grocey shopping, cooking and cleaning because she did nothing else except go to the shooping mall with the kid or weekends and spend 200 dollars on 'shopping therapy.' Anyway, when night came I just dropped dead. I was tired and continue to wake up very early (at 6AM) in order to go swim (exercize) and be back before anyone woke up. So, I was burnt physically speaking, no big deal, but the by-product of it was that as soon as I got to bed I 'dropped dead' and supposedly started snoring. Yes, snoring. So I was told because I myself was not aware of it. LOL.

Apparently she did not like my snoring and as if I had any control over my snoring she at first she begun kicking me and then also punching me while I was sleeping. We are talking here about physical violence. As soon as I was in deep sleep, bum, it was like a horse kick followed by a boxer punch.

But ... that was not the worst part of it. The worst part was the threat: 'If I cant sleep because of your snore then you are not a good father and I am going to take your kid away from you.' More precisely, 'find her a new dad.'

Of course, I became terrified. I had no control whatsoever over my snoring. No control whatsoever. Her threat made even less sense. Why would my snoring make me a bad dad and make me lose my daughter?

None of it made sense. But every night when I went to sleep I prayed to the lord not to make me snore. You have no idea what it is to be waken up in the middle of the nigh by kicks and punchs.

Believe me or not but this nightmare went on for 17 years and AT LEAST once per week. With time I just got use to it. Either I moved on to the sofa in the living room or turned around and continued sleeping. Occasionally I went to sleep in the living room which could as well be a hazard because the doors were open and the snore was loud enough to keep the drama queen awake.

I have no idea if my snore was that bad. Once I was over my 'dear' psychopath and I begun sleeping together with my SO one of my first questions was if my snore was disturbing to her. The answer was that she was not aware of it. I wondered and wondered if I truly snored. Maybe I didnt? Maybe I did! I continue to ask the question and never got a straight answer. Then I forced the issue. 'Please stay awake at tell me if I snore.' Of course that my SO worried about my state of mind. So I stopped forcing the issue. She mentioned once to have heard me snoring when we were sort of camping in the wild (I was 'dropped dead' tired).

I stopped asking her the question because she became worried: I wasnt making sense. I never told her even to this day what I am writing here. I dont have the courage to tell anyone this story. No one (except my therapist at the time but that one doesnt count) ever heard this story from my mouth because I know how stupid it sounds. How stupid I tolerated the kicking, punching and threats of taking my daughter away from me because of it. What is the connection of one thing to the other?

I now had the need to let the entire world know about it. I know I was stupid to tolerate such physical and emotional abuse whether I snored or did not.

The mind and works of a psychopath

Early on my 'dear' psychopath showed me how evil she could be. I had a co-worker in the office next door who was a little problematic. She was a good girl with a strong character and a poor reputation. I am not sure if she deserved it or not but the reputation was around (drugs, nightlife, married lovers, etc). We were sort of friends and I admired her courage but never, never had an affair with her. She was only a friendly co-worker next office. My 'dear' psychopath thought I was having an affiar with her. We had a Christmas party at work and so they had the opportunity to socialize. The co-worker, D, noticed that I was being bossed by my 'dear' psychopath and she said it out loud. D called her something like 'lympathic.' I dont remember exactly but if not lympathic something else meaning being bossing.

She didnt like it. Demanded to leave at that point and went on a rampage. I was forbiden from now on to talk to her which was impossible. We were co-workers and had projects together. So my 'dear' psychopath played her evil act. She wrote an anonymous letter to all her bosses and co-workers playing on the rumors about her caracter. It was bad, truly bad because she manipulated it to look like she was bad for the business. D was devastated and heart broken. Nothing bad happened to her because the accusations were anonymous. I felt terrible because I knew all about it but did not have the courage to say a word.

Back at home the drama queen and evil psychopath was delighted saying that D will never dare stand up to her. My share of the drama was that it was a lesson for me not to have female friends at work and if told not to talk to anyone specifically she will destroy that person and that I was the one guilty. All my fault because I did not follow her dictates.

I felt guilty about what happened to D and did not want anything like that to ever happen again to anyone. After D there were two more similar incidents. She picked the victims, make her evil act with anonymous letters and make me feel guilty about the devastation thrown at a 'friend.' The mere threat of so doing soon became already enough to persuade me not to challenge her dictates. The mind and works of a psychopath.

Horn Blowing

We lived in a typical middle class all American neigbourhood. Manicured lawns, plastic ducks, wood fence ... and a rarely used wood gate at the back of the lawn. Behind the gate I had a little wood barn where I had my wood workshop. That day the garage door didnt open (low battery at the opener end) and I was at the little barn using a router. When using such tools I use to close the door so to keep the noise low. She was upset that the garage door didnt open --my fault-- and since I didnt hear her call and the cell phone wasnt with me she drove the car up the side curb unto the manicured lawn and all the way to the gate. She blew the horn for so long that I finally heard it. I came out as fast as I could and was amazed to see the car at the top of the lawn and the non-stop horn blowing. A few neigbours also came out and were all as well preplexed at what was going on. What was wrong? Should we call the police? She came out of the car, shouted a few hateful words and got in through the back door. I was embaressed to say the least, apologized to everybody and carefully drove the car out of the lawn and into the driveway. Once inside the house, she went into a rampage, it was all my fault (she had a long list of all the wrongs). When I explained that I was at the barn using a loud tool and therefore didnt hear her call, she went into the barn got the hammer and, voila, my innocent router was broken into pieces. I still tried to explain that garage door openers have batteries and that I can not guess when they are about to fail. They just fail and then we replace them. But reasoning did not go anywhere. She just got instinctual, wild and violent. The rampage ceased only when she demanded the 'dead man' kinky sex act. The kids were not home yet and I wonder if the neighbours heard her wild orgasm.

Hi NoOne,

First I would like to say that I am sorry for all of the pain and heartache you have endured. You must be very strong to have made it so far. I admire that you have made the best out of an impossible situation. The possibilities for a positive outcome when the other party is a psychopath are very limited and the frustration from this can be overwhelming. Regaining your strength and reclaiming your life is what is important right now.

Isn't it amazing how many shocking stories float around in our minds? I like the way you express yourself by writing whatever "episode" is at the front of your thoughts.

Personally, I have so many strange incidents that to write them in a linear fashion would take a year.

Be well

Thanks, Trudy, for your nice words. Yes, I wonder myself how lucky I am that I got out of it. It could only had been good karma. As soon as I got away from her low energies I got my life back together. But, I paid a very high price because now I have to live with the guilt of having left my kids with a psychopath. For years she controlled my life with the threat (there were hundreds of other threats, of course) of taking the kids away from me. And, then she finally did. I was thinking about it the other day why she finally did it. She was loosing control over me. I took for granted that my misery was my destiny and begun having a life of my own. There was always the wood work I enjoyed, begun making friends, socialized with family, camping (something like that), long nature walk, even got a best friend (a dog). The older the kids were getting the more detached and independent of her I became. She couldnt take it that she was loosing control of me so she used the ultimate and atomic weapon: take the kids away. She had it all planned.

The day I checked into an hotel room

I was already healed from the bow disease (IBD) but the doctor wanted me to have a colonoscopy twice a year in order to keep an eye on how my insides looked like. I had already a few such procedures but it was such a pain for her to come and get me from the anesthesia room (a waste of her time) that I took care of myself. We were not in the US and the procedure was not as strict as the protocol in the US. The protocol was that someone had to be present to take the person home. The anesthesia makes people a little stoned and spaced out. When the procedure was over and I regained my conscience I made this story that my someone was getting the car and waiting outside just around the corner, etc, etc. In the process I walked away from the clinic. Again, this was not in the US. No clinic in the US would let this happen.

Once in the streets of the old downtown I just walked around till the next coffe shop, have breakfast and move on. It was a funny experience because after the anesthesia I was spaced out. I knew where I was but I just wondered without a grip on the destination. It was a short thing lasting for less than half an hour.

But this last time I had the procedured the doctor removed something suspicious (later determined to be a harmless pseudo polyp) and there was some bleeding. I was in severe pain for the next 24 hours. She had been making troubles and I just couldnt take it to go back home and have to put up with more of her pain. So, I checked into the first hotel I saw and got a room. I called and explained that I was not well and therefore was going to stay in the hotel. Her reply was that I was only making an excuse for escaping my responsibilities to the kids (basically cooking and school pickup) but glad that I will stay away so not to disturb anyone with my sadness and pain. She told me to come back only when I will be feeling better. I told myself back then, better alone than in bad company. I was glad that at least I had only one pain to deal with.

Her cruelty still hurts me today. Humans dont treat other humans that way. She had no guilt or conscience whatsoever of her actions. But ... she called herself a christian and went to church regularly.

Hi NoOne, I have been following a murder trial here in the US that I thought might interest you. Normally the experts don't call the woman a Psychopath, but are in this case. It is getting very interesting because she is actually testifying.

You can find her by doing a Google search: jodi arias trial

Here is a Live Clip

Di

I am out of touch with the news but I just read a few things about the case. Apparently she is unaware of her own stories. She just makes them as she goes along. But if it is true that she murdered the boy friend then she has a problem. Apparently no sense of guilt. Glad to know the label psychopath is being used. Unfortunately it is not only a male prerogative. If so then she did a good job hidding it for so long and this is the first time she got caught. I doubt. One doesnt become a psychopath all the sudden. She has left psychopathic foot prints in her past and the question is whether people will come out and tell.

I had mixed feelings about the case because on one hand I thought about the victim. Poor guy. The hell he must had been through. How did she manage to control him to such extent? But on the other hand I also told myself how lucky I am because I was very close to have the same fate. The persistent hammer rampages, the poisoning, the emotional violence, psychological torture and the list goes on and on. She had two rampages episodes involving a big kitchen knife (I havent posted about it yet). I lost the kids but I survived. How lucky I am I didnt have the same fate!

Another hammer rampage

If my memory doesnt fail me the first time the kids witnessed my 'dear' psychopath hammer rampage was soon after the toaster case. Somehow I left the toaster unplugged. She was in a rush and, voila, the toaster didnt work. She went nuts. I was stupid, selfish, had no concern for anyone, iresponsible and the list went on and on. The kids witnessed it all and I mentioned that she shouldnt behave that way in front of the children. She went on a spin and made it even worst. She got the hammer from the barn and poor toaster got smashed. Luckly it remained unplugged. Then she turned to the kids and made this argument that it was all my fault and that what she was doing was normal. It was OK to let it all out. It was OK to get all the bad energies, anger etc, and break up stuff. It was OK because it was all my fault, my lack of responsibility, because I didnt think about anyone else except myself. I still tried to explain that leaving the toaster unplugged wasnt such a big deal. Anything I would have said at that point however only made things worst. She always had to have the last word, win the argument. No reasoning would have done anything at that point.

The next hammer rampage took place a few days later. I dont remember exactly why but while loading the dish washer I had suddently to do something else and left the door open. She scratched her leg. No big deal ... so I thought. She got the dirty dishes and threw them on the floor breaking them one by one. All in front of the kids, then kindergarden ages.

They were freightened, crying, running around. Once again the same argument: it was all my fault. She was the victim and that it was OK to let it all out by breaking up stuff. That same day both told their teachers what had happened at home. No wonder today they behave just like mom. The weapon of choice for one if rather a baseball bat. The other just breaks up whatever is at hand.

I had a dream.

Well, not really a dream, rather another nightmare. The hammer came back. I cant believe how in my little barn I have a few hammer types (each hammer had a different function in a wood workshop) and still remain sane. To make it short another real nightmare came back. I have been taking sleeping pills because I just cant sleep without them but last night I decided to cut it down. Most likely this was the trigger. I did not have a deep sleep and I was in the 'twilight zone' when she pop up of nowhere.

She had a huge hammer. And I mean a huge hammer (kind of hammer of Charles Martel, the Medieval king). Double ended. She came into the house out of no where (no door keys needed in nightmares) and begun breaking up everything. It was random. Just everything on her way was broken up. Mirrors first, but then kitchen cabinets, windows, doors, floors, even light bulbs, TV, radio, etc. It was random and very very violent. She just broke up everything that was on her way. It felt like random.

And ... one, it was real. All my mightmares are real. They are so real. Truly real. When I wake up I touch myself, look around, move, just to make sure it was not real. So, first, the realness, it felt really like she was there doing the hammer rampage. But then even more terrifying was my frozen state. I was frozen (it doesnt take a 'rocket scientist' to analyze this). I was frozen. Not really frozen as in ice or cold. Just that I couldnt move. My neck didnt move, much less my hands or legs. My eyes wanted to move but I couldnt even move my sight. I felt my neck stiff. Really stiff. I felt the nerves, muscles, blood vessels, whatever, really frozen. So frozen that it hurt. I was solid like stone or marble. Now I know how those marble statues in the museums feel like! I wanted to stop her, I wanted to talk, to call someone, to do something, but .... I was frozen. Not frozen as in ice but frozen like in stone. And, it was real, it was so real. Real just like the real thing. When I woke up (at last) I asked if everything was OK (we talked recently about what if she would show up one day). She looked preplexed, 'what is wrong with you?' Was I shouting? Moving? Turning around? The answer was, no. But, it was so real. I was struggling with myself neverthless physically speaking I was 'normal.' Anyway, I was so shocked that I spend the rest of the day drinking. Two bottles and a half of red wine more precisely. I just couldnt take it anymore. I wanted a drug, a shot, a pill, whatever, for thepain to go away. She was at work (she works shifts) and I was alone most of the day drinking.

I already paid a high price to get rid of my 'dear' psychopath but how much longer will she keep coming back intomy nightamres? Does it ever stop? Is there an end to it?

The psychopath and the worm

Yes, today I saw a tiny little white worm in my veggies garden. I got upset. I picked up the timy little white worm and was ready to do the right thing: smash her (or was it a him? Do worms have gender?). And ... all the sudden my memories got me back to the times of my psyhcopath. No, I dint get drunk this time. Apparently I can still deal with tiny little white worms. But I got 'down' so I thought it was a good idea to write about it. How can a psychopath and a worm be related? Let me tell you the story of my psychopath's worm.

When we got to our last living place I decided to have a life (resemblance of a life) of my own. One of the things the locals did was going to the 'market' at least twice a week to buy fresh produce. This market was a sort of what Americans call 'farmers makert.' But if you havent seen one you have no idea what it is. It is more medieval than modern. Farmers bring their produce (includes it all from lettuce to rabbits/chickens/pigs/whatever, even sea food) twice a week (mid week and weekends) for sale. I found out that in my area most were buying their food there so I went exploring the area. I soon found out that the people I knew where there not only buying food but also socializing. Drinking a little, eating local sweets, coffee and the likes. It was more than going shopping and since I knew some of the locals I had fun (=socializing). At last.

The fresh vegetables were great. No herbicides, no pesticidies, no fertilizers, etc, etc. Some looked really great, real, but some of the produce had imperfections. I had been told to go by the touch rather than the looks. With time I sort of learned to connect the feel and look of the produce and the taste. Believe me: fresh, home/country produced veggies (meat and all else) are a world apart from what you buy in Wallmart.

I was having so much fun going to the market twice a week that one day (unfortunatelly) I invited my 'dear' psychopath to come along. Most locals went there occasionally with their spouses so it was appropriate. I introduced her to the people I knew, showed her the produce, etc. A sort of guided tour. She even ate the local cookies and a drink. I took her afterwards to the local ancient church.

Big mistake.

Now she knew I was having fun at least twice a week. This is where the tiny little white worm comes into the picture.

Soon afterwards I bought the usual delicious lettuce. BUT, I must have made a big mistake (mea culpa): I didnt wash it right and ... because the veggies were not treated with herbices/pestices a tiny little white worm made her way into the salad bowl. I always washed (as I still do) all my veggies but ... this tiny little white worm escaped me. A survivalist! I placed the big white bowl of the salad at the dinner table and ... the tiny little white worm showed her head to my 'dear' psychopath. If I had seen it first I would have eaten it immediatelly.

Once she saw the worm she went on a rampage. No hammer rampage this time but the salad bowl did end up in the floor broken up. The argument went as usual: that I was not responsible serving worms to my kids, therefore I was a terrible dad, that I was serving spoiled, damage food to my kids, etc. etc, that I didnt care for anyone (you got it: the whole psychopath trip). Kids didnt like salad so it was the perfect excuse not to eat salad: there were worms 'all over.' Next she drove the kids to the closest McDonalds: a mere 45 minutes away via the highway! Local roads would have taken twice that much time. When she was back she forbade me to ever, ever, buy food again from that market. I had to buy produce and food only and only from the local 'Walmart.' Sterelized food!

I still went back to the market but only to say hi to people, drink coffee and a cookie but all the produce and food I bought at the commercial local 'Walmart.' She demanded the receipts for all the food that came into the home so to PROTECT her kids from my dirty food. As time went by I stopped going to the local market. What was the use of it?

Sorry if a tiny little worm and a psychopath may not have anything to do one with the other. For me they do.

Today, I am free, I go to the market twice a week to buy fresh produce. Never again a tiny little white worm made her (or his?) way into the salad bowl. Bad luck such a worm did it once upon a psychopathic time.

Hi Noone, I just wanted to let you know how much I enjoy your writing. You have a real talent.
The last time I read your posts I contemplated the difference between you creating with a hammer (which I assume you do with your woodwork) and your ex-Psychopath using a hammer for destruction. I wonder if that factor contributed to the appeal of the hammer for her.
Thanks for your worm story. It was very poignant. Psychopaths themselves are worms, although not little white harmless ones.
Please continue posting when you feel a need and know that people are reading, understanding, feeling and learning from your excellent prose.
NotCrzy

Thanks for you nice words. Not just the work created with my innocent hammers but anything 'good' I would do with or without a hammer she would destroy. I wished I had figured that one out earlier. Anything good/creative/pleasurable I would do she had had to destroy. Looking back, there are so many events that I now wonder about my naivetie and stupidity. Here is the next related sad memory.

Going to the children library

We lived very close to a very large university that had a huge collection on children literature. The school of education was one of the oldest in that part of the country and had been buying children books for a long time. The collection was stored in an old building across several floors. It was a huge, huge collection. Children books for all ages, from all places on earth and from all times. Some more than a century old.

So, after dinner when I had the kitchen clean I took my daughter to the library. At the first visit I sort of explained it to her how a library works, how the collection was divided, etc, etc and we just walked around endlessly in the corridors. Next day I told her that she could choose any book she wanted and I would read it for her.

Such became our routine. Every day after dinner we spent at least two hours at the library. The choice of book to read was always hers. Sometimes she didnt like her first choice and move on to another book. Sometimes she liked one section so much that I had to call her attention to other books. On the way home we always talked about the book with me trying to bring her out about the story. It became our routine.

Then ... one day the psychopath mother asked what we were doing. And ... (stupid me) we took her to our library routine. This time it was the kid showing mom the library. I was impressed. She introduced mom to the library sort of the way I did to her. She ended up choosing the book to read that night.

Mom was restless and could not wait for the reading to cease. Next day ... and I write this with tears in my eyes, she forbade us to go to back to the library. She became so upset that both me and kid were scared to death she would go on another hammer rampage. Never again we went to the library. We were now forbidden to go to the library. Instead she placed the kid in front of the TV and I took shelter from her evilness in the little barn.

Many years later my daughter still remembered the library days. She told me that it was one of the best memories of her childhood. Sad, however, it was cut short by a psychopath mother. But this was not the only time that anything good I did with the kids she had to destroy. Too sad that I allowed her to replace a dad/daughter quality time with TV. I dont even want to get into explaining and interpreting this. It is too sad. I rather leave it as such.

This is only one of the instances, there were many more ... judo, sailing, philosophy, even dress making ... I tried it all and every time we had fun she destroyed it.

The psychopath, Kant and the end of philosophy

Excuse me if the story is long but the end of philosophy requires an introduction. Another hobby of mine since the beginnings of time has been philosophy. So from the time my daughter could be reasoned with I had been philosophying with her. There was a time that I even put her to sleep telling her about the great philosophers. But never in the presence of the mother. Mom had a very low opinion about something as 'meaningless' as philosophy. It irritated her to hear me talking philosophy with anyone not just the kid. Although she was already a 'big' girl (still a kid neverthless) we already had long conversations about the great philosophers. As she grew older whenever she got truly interested in some topic she went on-line and do her own reading. So far so good ... until one day we talked about Kant.

Kant is not an easy philosopher but she 'digested' him pretty well. We had a long conversation about the categories of the mind, the a priori, etc. At night in the privacy of her room she read on-line about Kant and discovered that he was obsessed with order and routines. She read somewhere that he woke up every day at the same time, had the same breakasfast, walked the same route to work. The shop keepers opened their doors when he crossed the streets. Even the tower clerk made the bells rings at precisely the time Kant waved him, day after day. He was the time keeper of his village. The orderly life of Kant impressed the kid so much that first thing in the morning she wanted to talk about it. I went along. BIG mistake.

She wanted to know why Kant was so obsessed with order, routine, stability and if there was any connection to the ideas he argued. I replied that some features of Kant's philosophy do show signs of obsession with order but that his obsessive private life was not that unique to him. That some people are obsessed with order and routine because they find safety in the predictable world they create around themselves. So, in my humble opinion it is a sign of inner insecurities and the inability to deal with what life throws at them. That deep inside they are, in other words, insecure people.

When my 'dear' psychopath heard this, she went on a rampage saying that this guy was not a control freak, that orderly life had nothing to do with insecurities, that he was a good person, cleaned up his room, organized his affairs, etc, etc. Next, she forbade me ever ever to talk to the kid about philosophy because it was not good for her, confused her mind and that therefore I am not taking my parental reponsibility seriously, that I was a terrible father, etc, etc (the usual psychopathic trip). We (me and the kid) both saw that the breakfast table was about to fly and so instinctively we both run for cover. Got out of the house as fast as we could just like dogs with the tails in between their legs swearing never again to talk about philosophy in front of mom. We continue to talk philosophy but never again in front of her.

Her rampage didnt last long. Maybe less than a minute. But it was terrifying. Her relatively short psychopathic outbreaks had by that time already taken a disproportionate dimension. An inverse square relationship. I guess that the topic at hand, e.g., that obsession with order and control is a sign of deep insecurities, touched her in some strange way.

And then there was judo.

I practiced karate since the beginning of time but when my daughter got big enough I heard of a beginners judo class in the local community center special for parents and kids. My style of karate was not kid stuff and so in order for us to do something together I decided to quit karate and start judo. Not because I liked this particular style but because it was a kids-parents activity. In the beginning she had a few coordination issues (we all have) but with time she got really good at it. She learned the moves and enjoyed dropping big people on the mat. She understood that it is not strenght and size that counts but the proper moves.

At a certain point I sensed that mom wasnt happy with it. This was not a girly thing. But I kept it a low profile and often she didnt even noticed we were at judo because she was absent with her professional life. One day, however, we learned something new and the kid got really good at it. Dropping someone on the mat. We got home and the kid wanted to continue the practice and show mom how well she was doing. Big mistake.

Mom was horrified. How could I teach this to the kid. It was boy stuff and not proper for girls and her age. What a terrible father I was (the usual psychopatic guilt trip). I explained that this was a normal judo practice and that there were many girls at the gym and that it was a good exercize. To no avail. She forbade me to take the kid to judo. The kid wanted to go but ... she was afraid of what might happen if we disobeyed mom. The kid was already becoming afraid of her psychopathic outbursts just as I did. So she told me that it wasnt worth it and we stopped going to judo.

Any activity I did with the kids she eventually destroyed it. I tried many more activities but just like going to the library, philosophy, and judo she eventually destroyed it all. And then there was also sailing. More about it later.

Going to the beach

Sea and beaches had always been with me since the beginning of time so when my daughters came along I wanted them to be part of that world. We spent a few summers (the 3 months of school summer break) at the beaches in a place far far away. Mom came only for a week or two (at most) and then go back because of her career and I stayed with the kids all summer. We had a wonderful time because with me there were no conflicts, fighting, discussions and hatred. This stuff all ceased the moment she was out of the away. I tried to take them to as many beaches as possible often staying with family. We all enjoyed it not only because mom was away but because it was summer vacation and were at the greatest beaches in the world. The end of the summer was always painful. Go back to more conflict, discord, fighting, etc.

But then one summer when the kids were already 'big' she begun making troubles. I could sense hell was about to break loose. She could not stand that we were having a good time. This is how the psychopath trip goes. She read at CNN that there were strange cases of skin cancer showing up and that it was not a good idea to go that much to the beach. I tried to reason with her saying that I had always been aware of the problem of sun exposure. Those who live in this environment are well aware of it and therefore there are no cases of skin cancer. They all take the necessay precautions. Only outsiders get into troubles. That we avoid sun exposure during the critical Noon to 4PM hours, that when not possible light clothing is used, we had sun umbrelas, and that I always had the kids with sun protection cream. Moreover that the sun was less dangerous to not so light skin people like us and that all kids have been going to the beaches since the beginnings of time and there were no recollections of skin cancer. But even if in the case I did not take the ncessary precautions then family, friends and even strangers would warn us of crossing the safety line.

Reasoning is to no avail to psychopaths. In a few minutes phone call she told the kids that she had read in CNN that people were having skin cancer because of the sun, that I was a terrible dad (the usual psychopat guilt trip) for putting them at danger and that they were going to die if they continue going to the beach. I still dont understand the kind of power psychopaths have over people. The kids were so scared that begun avoiding sun exposure. At the beach they became obviously unconfortable. There were a few more phone calls and they were scare to death they were going to get skin cancer because mom had read it at CNN. FROM THAT DAY ON WE NEVER AGAIN HAD A HAPPY DAY AT THE BEACH.

I still tried to reason with them about all the precaution we had always taken but it didnt help. They were scared. Mom had told them that it was much safe to rather be locked at home and watch TV.

Few years later the older daughter had a sun education day at school and apologize to me about being so scared about the sun. I ask her to politely explain mom what she had learned in school. I saw when it happened: she was totally olivious about the damage she had done. I dont even think she was listening. No remorse, no apologies. In the back of her psychopathic mind she was glad to have achieved her ultimate goal: destroying anything good I did with the kids.

I have asked myself endlessly: what the hell was her problem? Are psychopaths sent to hell at the last judgment day or are they forgiven because they were not aware of what they were doing?

I think there is a special place in hell for them. I think they are well aware of what they are doing however, when a person is evil, they don't care about anyone but themselves and see nothing wrong with their actions, that is why they can't be healed.

Di

Yes, I think you are right, they see nothing wrong with themselves. Once upon a time after much effort I did manage to get my 'dear' psychopath to go to a therapist. Long story but for another time ... the point is that the first thing she told the therapist was 'I am here because my husband asked me to do it but I can assure you that there is nothing wrong with me.' To this day she still insists that there is nothing wrong with her. She is a victim. Hard to believe but very convincing to those who dont know her.

I went to marriage counseling with my "Psychopath" and he totally conned her. Now he is in counseling on his own, purely because he is afraid that our divorce will end up in court. He told me his is working on the differences between us how I can see shades of gray and he sees only black and white. Also mentioned how he is obsessive over keeping his motorcycle pristine. These of course are the least of my concerns- guess he never mentioned to her his posioning me.

Variation of the same theme: sailing

We were living at the time near a big lake. I missed the sea but the lake was an appealing alternative. I had been sailing (almost everything that floats and stands up to the wind) since the beginning of time. So I thought of introducing the kids to sailing and the lake. I got a sailing boat a little bigger than a weekender. For a short time I took the kids to the lake and have a wonderful time sailing and playing in the water. At a time we had a little island all for ourselves. Most of the time 'dear' psychopath was at work so I was alone with the kids. But when she realized that we were having fun it was her mission to break it up. Once she came along and soon 'dear' psychopath got bored. She didnt have any water experience neither was willing to learn the ropes. She was not in control so I sensed that hell would break loose sooner or later. And, indeed, one day she got out of hand and blew it up. Her argument was that it was boring. She gave me 10 minutes to get to shore and go home. She went straight to the shopping mall with the kids in a shopping 'adventure.' From that point on every time I wanted to take the kids to the lake she rather took them to the shopping mall. I have no idea what else she told them BUT WE NEVER AGAIN WENT TO THE LAKE. It was boring. It is amazing how she could destroy in only a few minutes whatever I had been building up for such a long time.

And then there was 'fashion design'

There was a time I realized that my girls, indeed, knew next to nothing about old fashion female ('girly') things. They had never seen a needle or a thread. They didnt even have a sewing kit. So we went to the store and bought a kit with a nice little box. While at the store they saw a dress pattern and wanted to become fashion designers (they were at the fashion designer phase). I had seen in my childhood an aunt sewing a dress from a paper pattern. I also work with paper patterns but for furnishure building. It felt like the same principle (draw and cut cloth was easier than wood) so I gave it a try. We cut the material from the pattern and then stictched most of it all by hand. Of course it didnt come out perfect (not at all), we didnt even finish it, but we had fun and above all they learned how to stitch, sew, etc. When mother arrived home and saw what we were doing, she was alarmed. I have no idea what went on her psychopathic mind but she degraded our operation. It was terrible we were wasting time with such trivial pursuits. Unlike in the old days now we buy new clothes, ready made. We will never be at a professional level and much less wear our own self made garbage. Needless to say that the kids never again wanted to become fashion designers. I wonder if the short sewing experience sufficed for a life of sewing. Just another activity I tried to do with the kids and she had to destroy. Luckly she was often absent and we had a good time on our own but we all already knew that the moment she showed up we had to stop everything.

Hello Someone!

Just wanted to let you know that someone else is hearing you and that you will find validation here. Keep posting, keep venting-

Thanks. I think that venting is indeed the right word. For so long I kept the appearences that it feels good to let the entire world know about it, even if anonymously.

As a psychopath she also loved death threats. Indeed, our last communication ended with a death threat. But since I was already use to it I didnt give it much importance. Just another life threat. I recall her saying that she was going to hire a hit man to kill me. Again, I was so use to that kind of language that I gave it little importance. But ... now thinking about it ... she got the hatred and the money on her side. I doubt she will come here and do it herself (with or without a hammer). She knows very well that she will not get anywhere but I am thinking as a rational human being. She is very deprived of rationality. I now wonder about it because I have been reading about high profile psychopathic murder cases and they scare me. Their actions are not in the realm of the rational at all.

First the facts. I have a supporting family not far from where I live, the small community is a sort of second family and there is no way she can come here and not been seen. Even before she will arrive at my gate people will be already sending me 'smoking' warning signs. The police headquarter is only 5 minutes away and the chief of police is a local who knows everybody by name. 0ne third of the natives are some sort of family relatives. I have had occasional small talk with him. She knows all this very well. The moment she will get into town everybody will know about it.

Now, this is the rational side of the story. Psyhcopaths are so full of hatred that they become irrational. The other day a stranger came into town, apparently he was lost and asked for directions. He drove around my place and left. It was a sort of strange. Unusual but possible. And this when I had a light bulb moment. Hopefully, it was only a paranoia moment. But it got me thinking. What if her threat becomes real? She already tried it all and she is violent.

Anyway, I changed locks (just in case she still has the old keys), installed an outside alarm (doesnt work because I let the dog lose and it activates the alarm!) and went to the spots where the police chief hangs around after hours. Just to chat about the weather! So we are now more than mere acquaintances.

I think that I have taken all the necessary precautions. I worry however that psychopaths are not rational. I truly hope I am only paranoia. But if something of a criminal nature happens to me I give full permission to the moderator of this list to give the authorities information connecting my identity to my posts at this list.

NoOne,

This sounds more serious than you let on. I hope you have been documenting these threats. I'm wondering why you haven't gone to family court to present this information and get a RO.

I can only speak of my experiences, but I know for a fact that my "Psychopath" has minnions who tracked me as far as 12 hours from our home. I do not think that you are being paranoid. I'm going to give you some advice and do with it what you may;

1) Compile he documents/evidence that you may have against your "Psychopath".

2) Contact a DV counselor in your area.

3) Provide the counselor and your attorney with your documentation.

4) I do think that the stranger could have been casing your house. Maybe it's time to take in a room mate, install solar lighting, motion detector lights, chimes that go off when a car enters the driveway...install video cameras. Check them during the night to see that they work.

5) I'm not sure about this part, but if you have someone who talks to your "Psychopath", let her know that you have provided the appropriate authorities with materials in the event of a serious injury or death (sorry). I would be vague about the contents- enough to know that she's been put on notice.



I know this may sound a little uncomfortable if you are used to being independent, but these are dangerous times, especially if your "Psychopath" is convertly violent like mine.

Be Safe.

Wow NoOne, I'm really sorry about what you're experiencing. The only thing I have to add is listen to your gut and for sure take every precaution to protect yourself and those around you. I also don't think you're being paranoid.

I'd record these instances with my iPhone too. That was some advice my local women's shelter gave me when I initially left my ex and I said I was worried he'd contact me again. Of course the laws are considerably different here in Canada so I can't speak on anything else, but if you have a smart phone- use it.

I dont know.I truly want to think that I am only paranopia, but ...her astrological birth chart is getting a major aspect from a dangerous transit, so I do worry. Not as much about the planets as about her irrational and violent nature. From what I have been reading psychopaths can do weird things when driven by hatred. I have taken precautions but I worry about her threat: 'to hire a hit man.' She would have to be very stupid to do so and the hit man not know what he is truly getting into. Unless, of course, he is a very sophisticated one. In that case it is hopeless.

But, again, I heard such threats almost daily for so many years why would I take them serisously now? The only thing that has changed so far is my state of mind due to the fact that I have been reading about high profile media cases.

Anyway, I just went through my cabinet of old files looking for 'evidence' and found out that before she left she emptied out a lot of material. Old tax forms, retirement accounts statements, 'love' letters, etc were all gone. The folders are there but they are empty. Gone. Also gone is the mail order bride ('Sears') cataloge. The only thing I found was the 'family' picture she broke up at her first hammer rampage.

Yes, I do have a phone with a video camera with me at all times. I could also install a video at home. I will look into it. This is such a small community that it is be nearly impossible for a stranger to show up and do his thing without being detected. Maybe I am only being paranoia. Her hatred/violence and money neverthless continues to worry me. Has she gotten over it and moved on to a new life/victim? I dont know. I will take more precautions anyway. Thanks for the advice.

NoOne,

What's the harm in taking every precaution that you can? There are many inexpensive things you can do to start with.

I have also been told that if the "Psychopath" I was married to wanted me dead, he would work on this for a long time- apparently it becomes an obcession with them. They hold a grudge for a long time.

It seems like you have a long history with this person so I would begin with getting whatever documentation you can get together- along with a statement to the police about her threat and put it in the hands of several resources to be mailed in the event of a serious accident or death. this is something that I have done- it is a little bit of security, but the only avenue I can think of right now.

I reread your earlier posts and I was wondering how your girls are? You do realize that this pathology is genetic. You had battered yourself up quite a bit about not getting them out of the situation. It is possible that no matter what you tried to do to get them out, they could still have significant issues. I have had to face that possibility with my two children- I am careful to give them vague or minor details as I am unsure of their alliances.

I wouldn't worried about seeming paranoid, I would take whatever precautions I could. have you considered moving?

Moving is out of question but I will take more precautions because I fear that she has not moved on to a new relationship and it consumes her that I am with another woman. She already tried but it didnt go anywhere. She wrote my employer infamous letters but I was cleared up by an inquiry of their own lawyers. She wrote a denouncing letter to the IRS and I was audited. I had to hire an expensive lawyer to advocate my case and I was cleared up. I lost the boat. Minor stuff, however. She got hold of my contacts notebook and sent them infamous text messages. The accusations however were so outrageous that no one took them seriously. It was embarassing, however. She forbade and bribed the daughters not to communicate with me but they find ways to do it. One is doing apparently well at least in school but the other is in real troubles. She is in a permanent conflict with the mother and acting in many ways just like her. She wrote me recently to want to come to visit (I sense that she wants to get away) but since she is a minor I doubt she will be able to do it because it entails to get out of the country. But I know she is trying. She failed her first attempt. I have been looking all over by evidence and found out that she cleaned up a lot of stuff. She loved to make threats (and I mean death threats) over the phone. I was use to that kind of language so I didnt take it seriously. But I need to get a phone that will allow me to tape calls. I dont know if there is such a thing. I would love to tape her threats.

Hi NoOne, there are indeed recording devices that click in when you answer the phone. Depending on where you live these are the types of devices you would be looking for: recording devices

Also there are some great cameras these days that you can monitor from your computer when away from the home they are actually smoke detectors which is great because that way no one in your household would know they are there. Meaning if you have people working in your home, no reason for them to know as who knows who may be speaking to others.

Here again, it depends on locations that are in your area but if you do a Google search for [i]smoke detector camera/i] you will find an extensive variety.

Hope that helps, good security is a good thing for most people particularly in these cases.

Di

Also you might want to check recording laws where you are located. If it is legal then the evidence is admissable.

Text messages

The other day we came across a text message sent to my family, co-workers and friends phone. Not just a simple cell phone text message. When she first found out that I had a girl friend or significant other she just got out of orbit. We were already divorced and she knew about it from the kids. Long story, but to make it short: she figured it out.

I dont feel like explaining or interpreting it, I will leave this up to you. It is just not real.

She had gotten hold of my address/phone booklet. Most likely made a copy. So, she had all my family and co-workers phone numbers. She had written before to my co-workers but never to my family. So this time she sent the text message to all.

This is the message she wrote. From memory. That I was a vulnerable person and that so and so was controlling me and had turned me into an alcoholic, drug addict and chain smoker. That I was no longer the same person because she had brain washed me to be subservient to her. That she was with me because her ex husband was gay and she was desperate for a real man.

That last one surely got me proud! But the rest of it ... no comments. Given the life story you already heard from me, you interpret it. Now, my co-workers just had a big laught out with it. I merely replied, yeap, she got nuts! My family called to ask me if I was OK. By that time they alreday knew with whom they were dealing with. No big deal. But I must confess that I was embaressed.

It has since then become among us a sort of joke that I was a vulnerable person brain washed by a prostitute to be subservient to her. 'God bless.' She must had been looking at the mirror when she wrote that message.

No One,

Sounds like projection to me


Laught it off, it's probably the most harmless thing she's done to you yet!

This time was harmless but her other attempts were ugly. I already mentioned that she sent incriminating letters with specific information to my employers and there was a full inquiry by the law office. I was cleared up but it was damaging and embarrassing. Also, the IRS, in that case I had to hire a lawyer. I was cleared up but wasnt easy and I did loose my little boat. She also sent text messages to all of my friends relatives with very ugly language. I wonder if this activity is considered harassment in court. In many of the text messages she accused me of things that I am even ashamed to mentioned. Not because it is true but because it is ugly. Very ugly. I worked for many years with someone. We always had a polite and friendly relationship. My 'dear' psychopath also wrote her a letter. I dont know what she wrote but my co-worker stopped being friendly. We now have only a minimal professional relationship. She calls me Mr or by title. I asked her what had happened and she mentioned to have received a letter but refused to talk about it. That one hurt me. As far as I know my 'dear' hasnt done anything in a year or so. In fact, since last summer. Her silence has me worry. I wished she would be gone and when she finally did I worry about her being gone. I find it difficult to believe that she got over and moved on.

NoONe

I would think that this would be a pattern of harassment, certainly based on your history with her. I too would be concerned about her silence. It’s difficult to tell if she’s moved on or is quietly planning something. My husband does not try to contact me directly, unless there is something he wants from me ( ie; sign the taxes). But I do feel that he might have others who are watching/following me on occasion. Your ”Psychopath” seemed to be a more vocal and active aggravator so perhaps you will be fortunate and she will have found a new victim.

I sense things are not quite right. Older daughter has been in touch daily and being very loving. Long mails about everything. Younger daughter asked me to buy her a ticket to come and see me as soon as school is over. I bought her the ticket and now I want to see if she manages to fly. This is all very strange and as long as they dont tell me what is going on with 'dear' psychopath I am not going to ask either. Maybe psyhcopaths do redeem themselves. Maye she just moved on (hopefully) to another victim. At my end of things I have been feeling much better. I am drinking much less, not smoking, and sleeping better. I suspect that writing my story here has helped me somehow. My big project of late is coming to a conclusion and Spring is in the air. Too good to be true. She (or any one from her quarters) can still pop up at any time. I think that fear will stay with me for a long time.

NoOne,

When you say that things aren't right...I would say trust your instincts. By ignoring the RED FLAGS that our subconscious tried alerting us with before, we got into a whole lot of trouble. Trust yourself now. If this behavior is unusual for your daughters, use caution. I had a similar issue with my youngest son questioning me daily as to where I was , where was I staying the night...(at the time I was couch surfing among family members). I later found out he was passing information on to the "Psychopath", innocently or not. But because I instantly became alarmed at his questioning, I was vague. I think my instincts have kept me safe up to this point.

No, I do not think your "Psychopath" has redeemed herself...sorry I don't think they change unless they want/can get something from you.

Stay safe- trust yourself.

Psychopaths do not redeem themselves. I think we all know this but we hold on to the thread that maybe the one in our lives can beat the odds... but realistically they can't.

Like 1962 says, be careful.

Something is not right I just dont know what. Hard for me to believe that she finally gave up. But on the other hand maybe she did redeem herself and moved on. For now I will just keep as low profile as possible. Funny to think for years I sought to get to the point of getting rid of her and now that I finally got it (hopefully) I fear her silence and absence.

My daughter already got the ticket I bought for her and printed the boarding pass. She wrote me that she has the passport and got it all planned up this time. I truly worry how innocent she is (she is only sixteen) but she says that she will make it this time. It will unfold soon after the last day of classes. Still a long way. There is nothing I can do but wait. Very courageous of her but realistically speaking I wonder how she will manage to cross the customs/passport check up line. She says that she got it out figured out but wont tell me how.

NoOne,

Was your location previously a secret? I recall your previous concern over your wife possibly sending someone to hurt you. Does the 16 year old have any tendencies like her mother?

My location is not a secret but due to its isolation setting it will not be easy for a stanger to come here unnoticed. The daughter is troubled and does exhibit some of mom's behavior. When angry she also goes in rampages smashing everything. She is having problems in school and with the law. I have told her to get away before she goes nuts. She tried before to get away but the mother sabotage it. This time she wrote me to have it all figured out and only needed the ticket. I dont know what are her plans. She says that she cant tell me. Most likely afraid that I will panic or that mom will find out. I sense that she doesnt want me to know so I will not be blamed for anything should something go wrong. I know she is having terrible conflicts with the mother. At times even fist fightings. Again, there is nothing I can do. I am powerless. I am many time zones away and even if I was close anything I would do would only make things worst. It was always like that.

The 'dear' knows I am well protected here and that it will not be easy to touch me but I also know that she can go out of orbit and act in irrational and instinctual way. When there was some sort of communication she threatened me many times to hire a hit man to come and get me. I didnt pay attention to it because I was use to hear such threats for many years. But I worry because she has lost all hopes to get me and may now turn to extreme situations. I hope not. Most likely I am only paranoia.

NoOne,

Although many of us have probably been called paranoid, I think that it just makes sense to do everything in our power to keep ourselves safe.

Good luck in the situation with your daughter. I hope that her Mother isn't using her to get to you in some way. It seems like you'll have your hands full if daughter has "Psychopath" tendencies.

Oh yes, she has already used the kids against me. She forbade them to communicate with me. They do but not from home computers. They find other computers and have secret mail boxes. They are afraid so they keep it as a secret. My daughter assured me that she got it rigth this time but cant tell me what his her plan. She already got the ticket I bought her. I worry how she will clear up customs and passport check up.

I often think how one can have so much hatred, generate so much evil and cause so much pain without any remorse or even conscience of what they are doing. Not only. But also at the same act out as victims and defenders of higher morals and have the courage to go to church religiously. I dont know about your 'favorite' psychopath but this one I know is just not human. I dont know what she is but human she is not. Maybe an alien from a psychopath planet who doesnt have blood in its system. Maybe it is Coca-Cola, I dont know.

The psychopath that is in my life is my husband of 30 years. We had what I thought was a fairly normal marriage. Found out that he was doing who knows what with who knows whom for the last at least 3 years. He did admit to trying to be a big shot. Found out two days ago that he is love bombing a 37 year old mother of 2 (both kids are under 5 years old). Now I know how everyone feels when their "Psychopath" is activly discarding them. Very painful.

Best of luck to you NoOne.

I am new here (and I'm not really sure how and where to ask a general question); have come back a few times to read the posts.

For now I have a general question: I have read about the typical modalities of manipulation, trickery, the lying, the gas lighting, and it all sounds horrifically familiar to me. Mentally I am "checking off" a ton of stuff. My question is: how conscious are people like this of how they operate, of the lying, the manipulating, the DESPERATE need for control, the ruthless power struggle, all combined with this wonderful charm...? Are we talking about entirely conscious intention, conscious planning? Are these consciously DEVISED plans? (In my case, the main issue is emotional manipulation and torture and a very strong suspicion on my part that this person really ENJOYS seeing me humiliated, thwarted at every turn, even as the seductiveness never stops...)

Welcome threetimesstunned,

I would say that you will find the answers to your questions within these posts and the responses from those of us who have been there.

I personally had little insight into what was going on in my marriage for the first 29 years. He did some of the things mentioned, but as a young bride I was clueless. As I began to feel less loved in the end, I began to question and push him for answers. His mask began to slip and I was in a total state of confusion. What was done to me was definetly planned. I was choosen, manipulated (at least initially), lied to and cheated on.

In the end he intentionally poisoned me, used others to track me, and search my medical records to find out if the doctors could determine the drugs he used on me. Thank you for joining and asking this question. It makes me remember the evil things he planned and did to me. BTW, friends and family envied the special relationship we shared...LOL we were all fooled.

Hi 1962, thanks so much for your response. So this has been a really really long haul for you. At what time, would you say, did you become suspicious that something was off? You say you were definitely "chosen," definitely "manipulated"; are you seeing this mainly in hindsight? I am very curious in particular about the being "chosen," because when I think of those days now I remember in retrospect this weird sense I had of having been "watched."

Your story has a long history, mine does not. In fact, it's the quickness of the succession of moments, one after the other, that went from the top of the world to the bottom of the gutter that is so shocking...

stunned,

When I met the "Psychopath", I was 18, just out of high school and in my first year of college. His best friend had just started dating my best friend. We had some great times. We met in early December and by sometime in January he asked me to marry him. RED FLAG- way too soon, but I was so young I had no clue. He, BTW, was 24. Although I didn't feel a huge sense of passion (sexually), I did feel that emotionally we were alike- similar values, morals, family issues. Because he helped me so much in resolving my family issues, I think I grew closer to him. I think that in the beginning, the realtionship was important to him as it gave him a sense of security and support that he truly yearned for- and still does to this day. Si I know in fact that "Psychopath"s have feelings and needs- they just don't bond to people in the same way that we do.

So I guess my situation was less of feeling watched and more of his tapping into what I wanted; a family life with children and to be a homemaker for him and our kids. This was a total opposite of what he grew up with as his mother had a career and was most likely a "Psychopath" herself- very cold fish.

So perhaps that is why it lasted so long, we were compatible in that way. Things of course went from good to bad and vice versa, but over 32 years you expect that to happen. At around 28 years, I realized that he was cheating- he had always been a flirt, but I now realized that he had probably been having women and possibly men on the side for years. I was oblivious to all of it as I trusted him 100%.

It wasn't until then that I began to question and analyize what he was doing and where he was going- even though he was home to me daily, he was still finding time to cheat and the lies...pathological. The more I pushed him, the more the lies, gaslighting, and anxiety built.

I wish that my experience was fleeting- I feel that I have wasted a life with a man who will never be there for me in my old age, when I need someone who loves me and wants to be there for me. Sometimes I have to imagine that he has died, and truthfully a part of me went right along with it. All of my hopes and dreams for the future were based on lies and deceit.

I don't think there's a sweeping generalization for any narcissist or psychopath; there's all kinds of varying degrees of each. My personal belief is narcissists are less inclined to have that self realization of themselves whereas true psychopaths are very aware and do things very purposefully. That's not to say either is any more or less destructive than the other; I feel the results for the victims are the same.

And really, it doesn't matter. Once you realize you're in an abusive relationship- ANY abusive relationship- it's always in your best interest to get out as soon as you can.

On Psychopaths and Automatic Pilots


The more I read about psychopaths and contemplate about my experience the more I like the automatic pilot analogy.

In my little boat I had a small and basic automatic pilot (of the first generation). When sailing alone it is a great devise. It allows you to go down the deck for a few minutes to do whatever. One sets the automatic pilot to a certain degree and no matter what you throw at the boat the automatic pilot in set in its course. There may be another boat and cliffs ahead, the wind and sea conditions may change but the A pilot cares the less about it. I tried to reason with my automatic pilot (being alone in long hauls does make you talk to the automatic pilot), I told him or her that the only permanent thing in the world is constant change, that we never step in the same river twice, that the wind may start blowing from a different direction and that our course may come to an end because the cliffs lay ahead. I tried to explain to my dear automatic pilot that to be blindly set on a course may be useful occasionally but it should interact with the ever changind surroundings. That if for some reason a mistake was introduced in the course that mistake will be magnified and cause troubles. That to be set on a single course its entire existence is dum to say the least. I even tried to be nice to the A pilot. I treated it really nice in hope of some recognition. I hoped that the A pilot one day would gain conscience, awareness of it surroundings. But to no avail. It was set on its course and nothing different ever happened. Fortunatelly when I realized that I wasting my time, I turned it off and rather got in charge of the course to sail.

Psychopaths are an automatic pilot. Somehow early in life they were set on a course. Just like the A pilot they have no idea what is going on around them, have no self awareness, conscience or capacity to reason with others. They act in pre set ways even if ´cliffs' lay ahead. Talk to them, expect mercy, understanding and redemption is like asking my boat's A pilot to react to the feedback it gets from the environment. It is hopeless and helpless.

In fact, A pilots lately are getting ahead of psychopaths. Now there are A pilots with computers and sensors built in so they feel the wind, waves, and other conditions and react to such feedback information. If connected to a GPS can even avoid the cliffs. If connected to a radar it can avoid colitions with other vessels. With different degrees of tolerance it sounds the alarm if something goes wrong. And if it cant handle the on going changes or if told that you need to wake up, it is clever enough to sound the alarm.

Psychopaths cant even do such basic operations. They are set on a course just the automatic pilots of the first generation. The best and perhaps the only thing one can and should do with a psychopath is to leave it alone in its set course just make sure you go exactly on the opposite direction as far and as fast as possible.